I'm really happy with Guild Wars2. All the design choices make me want to explore and experience the game because they are new. These new desicions whether they will or will not work will get me to buy the game just out of curiousity to see what it is like.
Also another huge thing for me is the fact it is B2P. The amount of work and stuff going into this game when I'm only going to have to pay for it once ever just really does it for me. I think I'm getting a good game for my buck.
Glad I've stopped following this game after they released their death and non pure healer approach, the picture becomes clearer with every update. Game is going to be an incredible easy walk in the park. but ok not every game needs to be for everyone. GW 2 will be another MMO light.
Right, because death penalties = a hard game, and having dedicated healers is the only way to make a game complex./difficult (even though logically it's the exact opposite.... good dedicated healer & tank = everything in the game is a walk in the park).
I love how people equate either of those things with everything in the game suddenly becomes easy, every enemy and boss can be soloed with ease godmode-like, you dont even need to think, just sit there doing 1 thing with no challenge whatsoever. Ever played single player game without harsh death penalties? Usually it's just resetting to last save point or something. Does that instantly make the game easy? Hell most single player games have much more challenging gameplay, more challenging boss fights, etc than any MMORPG, and they do it WITHOUT harsh death penalties. Do you have a dedicated healer in every single player game keeping you alive? Oh, whats that? You normally have to keep yourself alive through self heals, potions/bandages/whatever... omg all those games are soooooo easy mode, i can beat them all with both eyes closed and 1 hand on the controller.
Singleplayer game != MMO so don't mix them up. No death penalty + no pure healer + no real leveling curve + no grind = is clear picture for ME, others might differ but at this point its obvious that GW 2 won't be a game for ME:
/facepalm
Apparently that went waaaaay over your head. No shit a single player game doesnt = MMO. The point is, none of those things (death penalty, healing, etc) = difficulty in a game (regardless of type of game).
Problem is you're confusing 2 completely different things. Death penalty is a form of punishment for dying (obviously) but has no direct correlation to the actual difficulty of the gameplay itself. You automatically assume that no death penalty = easy mode game, without having any clue whatsoever how easy/difficult fighting regular mobs is, or bosses, or how easily you can die, etc.
Youre also making the very common mistake that tons of other people are making and trying to take 1 feature that they are going with in GW2, trying to take it out of GW2 and replace it with whatever other game you play / have played (perhaps WoW?) and basically saying "Well if that were in X game, it would make it easy, or it wouldnt work right, so that must mean it's exactly the same for GW2!".
There seems to be a LOT of confusion, so I will just say this: Dynamic events will occur in REAL TIME in a PERSISTANT WORLD. A destroyed village will be destroyed for EVERY SINGLE PERSON THE SERVER. Dynamic events can have one person participating, or several hundred. The number of enemies will increase/be buffed as the number of players participating increases. If only one person is present at a village for example, only a few centaur will attack. If one hundred people are there, a massive group of powerful centaurs will attack.
Okay, I'm not sure if quoting yourself is against the rules, but I feel like this is an important piece of information that will probably go unseen due to the new page. if this is against the rules, sorry, but there is an astounding amount of misinformation in this thread.
I'm really happy with Guild Wars2. All the design choices make me want to explore and experience the game because they are new. These new desicions whether they will or will not work will get me to buy the game just out of curiousity to see what it is like.
Also another huge thing for me is the fact it is B2P. The amount of work and stuff going into this game when I'm only going to have to pay for it once ever just really does it for me. I think I'm getting a good game for my buck.
Same here. I'm really looking forward to it, not necessarily because the content I see looks pretty cool, but also because of their design philosophy and the amount of content you get with every purchase from them. I like the B2P approach a lot, and think they will always have a great following because of that.
There seems to be a LOT of confusion, so I will just say this: Dynamic events will occur in REAL TIME in a PERSISTANT WORLD. A destroyed village will be destroyed for EVERY SINGLE PERSON THE SERVER. Dynamic events can have one person participating, or several hundred. The number of enemies will increase/be buffed as the number of players participating increases. If only one person is present at a village for example, only a few centaur will attack. If one hundred people are there, a massive group of powerful centaurs will attack.
Okay, I'm not sure if quoting yourself is against the rules, but I feel like this is an important piece of information that will probably go unseen due to the new page. if this is against the rules, sorry, but there is an astounding amount of misinformation in this thread.
BobTheTank v BTT!
No seriously, a good point is worth reiterating.
But the Dynamic Events is actually very obfuscating. The wording is tending towards "buzz" words and actually a proper diagram would illustrate what a lot of words has failed to do. It is confusing and alluring at the same time.
Responding to your info, I was still under the impression that a village DE would be on a reset albeit a longer one? And yes it is scalable and it does seemt to have a Tree Diagram of chains of quests linked together with a -/+ both leading to another branch in the chain and maybe a web with another tree...
There seems to be a LOT of confusion, so I will just say this: Dynamic events will occur in REAL TIME in a PERSISTANT WORLD. A destroyed village will be destroyed for EVERY SINGLE PERSON THE SERVER. Dynamic events can have one person participating, or several hundred. The number of enemies will increase/be buffed as the number of players participating increases. If only one person is present at a village for example, only a few centaur will attack. If one hundred people are there, a massive group of powerful centaurs will attack.
Okay, I'm not sure if quoting yourself is against the rules, but I feel like this is an important piece of information that will probably go unseen due to the new page. if this is against the rules, sorry, but there is an astounding amount of misinformation in this thread.
BobTheTank v BTT!
No seriously, a good point is worth reiterating.
But the Dynamic Events is actually very obfuscating. The wording is tending towards "buzz" words and actually a proper diagram would illustrate what a lot of words has failed to do. It is confusing and alluring at the same time.
Responding to your info, I was still under the impression that a village DE would be on a reset albeit a longer one? And yes it is scalable and it does seemt to have a Tree Diagram of chains of quests linked together with a -/+ both leading to another branch in the chain and maybe a web with another tree...
That's a very common misconception ive seen regarding the nature of DES. The village won't just auto reset (like a PQ in WAR) sometime after the event is over. There are various factors which could possibly cause that specific event to never even occur again. Events can be triggered in various ways such as a player activating a particular item in the right area (such as a hidden magical orb in a cave), by players killing certain types of enemies or not killing them (allowing them to build a massive army over time), various random things (such as an example they used of a storm moving into an area and it randomly spawning lightning elementals, and if the proper amount spawn/survive a sort of elemental army will form and trigger events).
So the village being under attack may have only been allowed to happen due to players not killing centaurs in the area. But if after you save the village players continue killing enough centaurs in the area to keep their numbers down, you may very well never see that village come under attack again by those centaurs, or perhaps in a completely different way (such as rather than an army, you have 1 or a few extremely powerful ones causing problems in the area, or perhaps the centaurs joining up with other enemies, or maybe the centaurs will go to war with another group of enemies and the village is caught in the crossfire, etc).
The grind can get old at times but it does serve the purpose of helping you learn your class. I have been in several ICC WOW runs where someone just bought their lvl 80 off Ebay and can't play worth a crap and gets everyone killed. It also makes you feel a little more unique when you have lvl capped your toon along with his professions and got all the top end gear, I know that some lazy butt can't just roll a toon and have everything I have achieved through questing, collecting, etc... I think Guild Wars provides a great in between for those that want a little more depth then say a "Call of Duty" but not so much as FFXI. To each his own
The best thing i can say about this game is that it will keep all the "gimme gimme gimme, now now now" assclowns out of our worthwhile mmo's.
GW2 is basically turning into an overglorified F2P game, community? who cares about that. Sense of acheivement? pointless, who needs that.
Honestly, they shouldnt even be allowed to advertise this game as an RPG. Its basically a fantasy action game. Might as well be playing Counter Strike in fantasy form and 3rd person. They should call it a MMOWOT, Massively Multiplayer Online Waste of Time.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
The best thing i can say about this game is that it will keep all the "gimme gimme gimme, now now now" assclowns out of our worthwhile mmo's.
GW2 is basically turning into an overglorified F2P game, community? who cares about that. Sense of acheivement? pointless, who needs that.
Honestly, they shouldnt even be allowed to advertise this game as an RPG. Its basically a fantasy action game. Might as well be playing Counter Strike in fantasy form and 3rd person. They should call it a MMOWOT, Massively Multiplayer Online Waste of Time.
Yet another troll who obviously hasn't read (or is simpkly unable to comprehend) any of the in depth articles about the features in GW2.
What exactly have they done to remove "community"?
How have they removed sense of achievement? Yes they have changed and improved (not removed) level grind, but level is far from the only for of achievement. In nearly ANY game, level is the least of achievements (except for hardcore asian grinders). Level usually means little, everyone egts there eventually, and in many cases so easily that it doesnt even feel like an achievement. But there ar eother things that do require lots of time and work to achieve such as gear, titles, skills, etc. I guess if you equate level with "achieving" anything, then great that you're staying out of the game, because you'll likely just be a hindrance to the rest of your server in PvP.
Do you even know wtf an RPG is? How is it an action game? It's got all the makings of pretty much any rpg ever made, both MMO and Single player, only they removed what fro some retarded reason has become the standard tank and spank mechanics that rule MMOs now. Is that your issue? They removed boring outdated and nonsensical feature slike tank & spank, and suddenly its not an RPG? Since hwen has any of that ever defined what an RPG is? RPG = Role Playing Game. Lets see.... detailed character creation system including choosing your background before entering the world, great story featured in the Personal Story portion of the game, Personality system which impacts how the world reacts to you, classes like most other RPGs, skill systems, etc, etc, etc..... wow you sure hit the nail on the head, its definitely not an RPG.
Let me guess.... never played GW1? Perhaps obsessed with WoW or one of its various clones? Making the mistake of trying to take X feature from Guild Wars 2 and insert it into WoW or whichever game and say "Well that feature sucks in WoW, so it must suck in GW2 too!" Yeah good luck with that faile dlogic, both in MMOs and in real life... learn not to take things out of context and put them in places where they dont belong.
The best thing i can say about this game is that it will keep all the "gimme gimme gimme, now now now" assclowns out of our worthwhile mmo's.
GW2 is basically turning into an overglorified F2P game, community? who cares about that. Sense of acheivement? pointless, who needs that.
Honestly, they shouldnt even be allowed to advertise this game as an RPG. Its basically a fantasy action game. Might as well be playing Counter Strike in fantasy form and 3rd person. They should call it a MMOWOT, Massively Multiplayer Online Waste of Time.
wow someone overreakting much? god forbid someone tries to make a fun game without grinding. I guess all those nice offline rpg's aren't really rpgs b/c they don't have grind. Some people are so shortsighted it's sad.
No matter how well the devs sugar coat it and no matter how much the fanboys of X game try and say there is no grind.
"We got rid of the trinity." How'd you do that? "Now everyone can heal." Sounds like you just took the mechanic and spread it thin. "Well no, there's one class that can do it better than others." I see, so they're healers. "No. They're.." -mind asplode-
No matter how well the devs sugar coat it and no matter how much the fanboys of X game try and say there is no grind.
Grind: to perform a repetitive task in a role playing game in order to increase one's character's stature.
Let's see... no ridiculous increase in amount of time to level (requiring you to perform repetetive tasks over and over just to gain a level), instead w ehave a system where every level will take basically the same amount of time to move up. And the Dynamic Event System causing the world to constantly change, and allowing you to do different things every day in the same areas and experience entirely new things (rathe rthan the same static world 100% of the time, and all you can ever do is go do the same quest over and over or kill the same exact mob in the same exact place over and over).
Yep, that sure sounds like a grind to me....
And incase it was somehow missed, yes that last line was sarcastic.
I guess it depends what you want to define as repetitive, the argument could be made that having levels take roughly the same exact amount of time over and over is a grind, since it is basically the same amount of leveling time again and again and again and that is quite repetitive. I know my last level was 2hours and my next one will be 2hours as well as 79-80 will be 2hours.
No matter how well the devs sugar coat it and no matter how much the fanboys of X game try and say there is no grind.
Grind: to perform a repetitive task in a role playing game in order to increase one's character's stature.
Let's see... no ridiculous increase in amount of time to level (requiring you to perform repetetive tasks over and over just to gain a level)
Typical fanboy head(no offence), when they hear something appealing they fall head over heels.
You're purely associating "grind" and increasing your characters "stature" to combat level and nothing else.
I can't stand when people throw the "I want it the easy way" attitude around like spoilt brats. Bloody hell.
G'night.
Edit - The dude above pointed out something I missed
"We got rid of the trinity." How'd you do that? "Now everyone can heal." Sounds like you just took the mechanic and spread it thin. "Well no, there's one class that can do it better than others." I see, so they're healers. "No. They're.." -mind asplode-
I mean is it a grind if a game makes you kill 1 monster type more than once? Is it a grind if you get a similar quest later on to one you got early on in the game?
Grind is subjective, but for the most part I think it gained it's negative connotation when people that can't handle games that are too challenging wanted to use it as a negative label.
I played EQ1, I know what a grind is, when wow came out people hailed it as being easy mode leveling, and said EQ1 was so bad cause of it's grind.
Now people say wow is such a grind (when it is 100x easier than the first generation mmorpgs) and demand an even easier mode game (gw2).
In 5-10 years are they going to say gw2 was a grind? And demand a game specifically designed for 3 year olds to be able to play through entirely?
I just see sort of a dumbing down of the industry as it heads in this direction, which makes me wonder why they think it is innovative to make games easier and easier.
And yes having a game with less of a grind tends to hint at them wanting to make it easier, because if it was challenging for the casual gamer he would consider it a grind because it would take significantly longer to succeed.
Also if you look at the gw1 community you will understand that they really are not used to the more challenging aspects of mmorpgs, so to them any common mmorpg challenge will be considered "too much to be fun".
I actually think it is more innovative to go against the grain in a true manner and make an mmorpg that is very very challenging, instead of making them easier and easier like we currently see.
It all depends on the type of grind. For example the EQ grind was tough because not only was the content challenging, but you had to farm it consistently over and over.
No matter how well the devs sugar coat it and no matter how much the fanboys of X game try and say there is no grind.
Grind: to perform a repetitive task in a role playing game in order to increase one's character's stature.
Let's see... no ridiculous increase in amount of time to level (requiring you to perform repetetive tasks over and over just to gain a level)
Typical fanboy head(no offence), when they hear something appealing they fall head over heels.
You're purely associating "grind" and increasing your characters "stature" to combat level and nothing else.
I can't stand when people throw the "I want it the easy way" attitude around like spoilt brats. Bloody hell.
G'night.
Edit - The dude above pointed out something I missed
Perhaps you completely missed the entire thing that this article was about.... LEVEL GRIND. Perhaps you also missed the multiple articles about things like the removal of grinding/farming for skills and stuff, since with the Traits system, there will be sort of like a quest related to obtaining many of the traits, and in some cases something as simple as talking to the right NPC. There will be no grinding a skill, or farming the same mob repeatedly hoping it drops the skill youre looking for or whatever.
Nice attempt at insightful judgement based on let's see.... nothing... about my attitude. I dont have any issue with a MEANINGFUL grind, but too many games simply put in a fake grind that doesnt serve any real purpose other than to keep you playing and paying longer. Since GW doesn't have a sub, ther eis no real incentive for them to want to keep you busy for months and months grinding away and paying them that sub. Perhaps you enjoy doing the same exact thing over and over and over and over and over and over for months on end in order to play your games, but i would much rather actually, you know enjoy the game and have fun without worrying about "Oh noes I have to sit in this spot for 200 more hours because its the only place that gives me good enough XP". I have enough other games to play that give me that grind, and am currently playing one now.
As far as what he pointed out... that has nothing to do with "grind". The gaining of levels themselves is not what defines the grind, it is the means of getting there. If youre gaining levels through exploring new content, quests, going new places, fighting new things, etc =/= grind. Having to keep kiling the same thing, repeat the same exact quest over and over again = grind. That's what Arenanet is attempting to avoid, the need to repeat much of anything, and to have a new experience every time you log into the game by causing the world to change, even when youre not there to see it change.
Similar to you, i cant stand when people act like spoiled little brats, though for me it's because theyre unable to comprehend the difference between 2 things. Grind does not = challenge. Grind = extensive amount of tiem spent doing repetetive tasks, and has absolutely no correlation to how difficult that task is. Grind could be killing thousands of mobs that you 1 shot (meaning it is extremely easy to do), or it could be killing 100 enemies that it takes you 10 shots to kill. Its about repetition. Removal of grind does not = easy game. You have no idea how difficult the gameplay itself, as well as completing anything in order to level will be. As ive said time and time again to others with your attitude... stop trying to take features out of context by taking X from GW2, then insert it into ANY other game and say "well thats how it would be in this game, so that must be how it is i GW2!". It doesnt work like that. GW2 is its own game, with its own features, playstyle, story, and way of doing things. The sooner you understand that fact, the sooner you'll stop making ridiculous assumptions about how "easy" the game will be.
I like challenges. I don't like grinds. Fighting a good opponent in pvp or pve can be a challenge. I certainly don't think those are grinds. I remember in Lineage 2 i had to fight monster after monster, same thing over and over again to level my character. It was grind, it certainly wasn't challenging or even engaging. It was tedium. All it is there for is to keep my subscription because it gives me the illusion that I'm progressing my character. There are other ways to make "challenges" and certainly more ways to make engaging gameplay. A grind is a developers lazy and easy way out of making a game.
Comments
I'm really happy with Guild Wars2. All the design choices make me want to explore and experience the game because they are new. These new desicions whether they will or will not work will get me to buy the game just out of curiousity to see what it is like.
Also another huge thing for me is the fact it is B2P. The amount of work and stuff going into this game when I'm only going to have to pay for it once ever just really does it for me. I think I'm getting a good game for my buck.
/facepalm
Apparently that went waaaaay over your head. No shit a single player game doesnt = MMO. The point is, none of those things (death penalty, healing, etc) = difficulty in a game (regardless of type of game).
Problem is you're confusing 2 completely different things. Death penalty is a form of punishment for dying (obviously) but has no direct correlation to the actual difficulty of the gameplay itself. You automatically assume that no death penalty = easy mode game, without having any clue whatsoever how easy/difficult fighting regular mobs is, or bosses, or how easily you can die, etc.
Youre also making the very common mistake that tons of other people are making and trying to take 1 feature that they are going with in GW2, trying to take it out of GW2 and replace it with whatever other game you play / have played (perhaps WoW?) and basically saying "Well if that were in X game, it would make it easy, or it wouldnt work right, so that must mean it's exactly the same for GW2!".
Okay, I'm not sure if quoting yourself is against the rules, but I feel like this is an important piece of information that will probably go unseen due to the new page. if this is against the rules, sorry, but there is an astounding amount of misinformation in this thread.
Same here. I'm really looking forward to it, not necessarily because the content I see looks pretty cool, but also because of their design philosophy and the amount of content you get with every purchase from them. I like the B2P approach a lot, and think they will always have a great following because of that.
No I just want to know =_=
BobTheTank v BTT!
No seriously, a good point is worth reiterating.
But the Dynamic Events is actually very obfuscating. The wording is tending towards "buzz" words and actually a proper diagram would illustrate what a lot of words has failed to do. It is confusing and alluring at the same time.
Responding to your info, I was still under the impression that a village DE would be on a reset albeit a longer one? And yes it is scalable and it does seemt to have a Tree Diagram of chains of quests linked together with a -/+ both leading to another branch in the chain and maybe a web with another tree...
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Whatever you say, it is still boring. That's a huge difference between fun game content and spreading butter too thinly on the bread.
jump, roll, swim.
Climbing still no info. ; )
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
That's a very common misconception ive seen regarding the nature of DES. The village won't just auto reset (like a PQ in WAR) sometime after the event is over. There are various factors which could possibly cause that specific event to never even occur again. Events can be triggered in various ways such as a player activating a particular item in the right area (such as a hidden magical orb in a cave), by players killing certain types of enemies or not killing them (allowing them to build a massive army over time), various random things (such as an example they used of a storm moving into an area and it randomly spawning lightning elementals, and if the proper amount spawn/survive a sort of elemental army will form and trigger events).
So the village being under attack may have only been allowed to happen due to players not killing centaurs in the area. But if after you save the village players continue killing enough centaurs in the area to keep their numbers down, you may very well never see that village come under attack again by those centaurs, or perhaps in a completely different way (such as rather than an army, you have 1 or a few extremely powerful ones causing problems in the area, or perhaps the centaurs joining up with other enemies, or maybe the centaurs will go to war with another group of enemies and the village is caught in the crossfire, etc).
The grind can get old at times but it does serve the purpose of helping you learn your class. I have been in several ICC WOW runs where someone just bought their lvl 80 off Ebay and can't play worth a crap and gets everyone killed. It also makes you feel a little more unique when you have lvl capped your toon along with his professions and got all the top end gear, I know that some lazy butt can't just roll a toon and have everything I have achieved through questing, collecting, etc... I think Guild Wars provides a great in between for those that want a little more depth then say a "Call of Duty" but not so much as FFXI. To each his own
Oh hey guys, I hear GW2 will cure cancer as well!
The best thing i can say about this game is that it will keep all the "gimme gimme gimme, now now now" assclowns out of our worthwhile mmo's.
GW2 is basically turning into an overglorified F2P game, community? who cares about that. Sense of acheivement? pointless, who needs that.
Honestly, they shouldnt even be allowed to advertise this game as an RPG. Its basically a fantasy action game. Might as well be playing Counter Strike in fantasy form and 3rd person. They should call it a MMOWOT, Massively Multiplayer Online Waste of Time.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Yet another troll who obviously hasn't read (or is simpkly unable to comprehend) any of the in depth articles about the features in GW2.
What exactly have they done to remove "community"?
How have they removed sense of achievement? Yes they have changed and improved (not removed) level grind, but level is far from the only for of achievement. In nearly ANY game, level is the least of achievements (except for hardcore asian grinders). Level usually means little, everyone egts there eventually, and in many cases so easily that it doesnt even feel like an achievement. But there ar eother things that do require lots of time and work to achieve such as gear, titles, skills, etc. I guess if you equate level with "achieving" anything, then great that you're staying out of the game, because you'll likely just be a hindrance to the rest of your server in PvP.
Do you even know wtf an RPG is? How is it an action game? It's got all the makings of pretty much any rpg ever made, both MMO and Single player, only they removed what fro some retarded reason has become the standard tank and spank mechanics that rule MMOs now. Is that your issue? They removed boring outdated and nonsensical feature slike tank & spank, and suddenly its not an RPG? Since hwen has any of that ever defined what an RPG is? RPG = Role Playing Game. Lets see.... detailed character creation system including choosing your background before entering the world, great story featured in the Personal Story portion of the game, Personality system which impacts how the world reacts to you, classes like most other RPGs, skill systems, etc, etc, etc..... wow you sure hit the nail on the head, its definitely not an RPG.
Let me guess.... never played GW1? Perhaps obsessed with WoW or one of its various clones? Making the mistake of trying to take X feature from Guild Wars 2 and insert it into WoW or whichever game and say "Well that feature sucks in WoW, so it must suck in GW2 too!" Yeah good luck with that faile dlogic, both in MMOs and in real life... learn not to take things out of context and put them in places where they dont belong.
wow someone overreakting much? god forbid someone tries to make a fun game without grinding. I guess all those nice offline rpg's aren't really rpgs b/c they don't have grind. Some people are so shortsighted it's sad.
No grind ... where have i heard that before ...
Owyea every other mmorpg that came out.
Hyping a game doesn't make a game better. It just blurs your reality, making it better than what it actually is. Imo just wait and see.
No such thing as no grind.
No matter how well the devs sugar coat it and no matter how much the fanboys of X game try and say there is no grind.
"We got rid of the trinity." How'd you do that? "Now everyone can heal." Sounds like you just took the mechanic and spread it thin. "Well no, there's one class that can do it better than others." I see, so they're healers. "No. They're.." -mind asplode-
Grind: to perform a repetitive task in a role playing game in order to increase one's character's stature.
Let's see... no ridiculous increase in amount of time to level (requiring you to perform repetetive tasks over and over just to gain a level), instead w ehave a system where every level will take basically the same amount of time to move up. And the Dynamic Event System causing the world to constantly change, and allowing you to do different things every day in the same areas and experience entirely new things (rathe rthan the same static world 100% of the time, and all you can ever do is go do the same quest over and over or kill the same exact mob in the same exact place over and over).
Yep, that sure sounds like a grind to me....
And incase it was somehow missed, yes that last line was sarcastic.
Typical fanboy head(no offence), when they hear something appealing they fall head over heels.
You're purely associating "grind" and increasing your characters "stature" to combat level and nothing else.
I can't stand when people throw the "I want it the easy way" attitude around like spoilt brats. Bloody hell.
G'night.
Edit - The dude above pointed out something I missed
"We got rid of the trinity." How'd you do that? "Now everyone can heal." Sounds like you just took the mechanic and spread it thin. "Well no, there's one class that can do it better than others." I see, so they're healers. "No. They're.." -mind asplode-
Grind is subjective, but for the most part I think it gained it's negative connotation when people that can't handle games that are too challenging wanted to use it as a negative label.
I played EQ1, I know what a grind is, when wow came out people hailed it as being easy mode leveling, and said EQ1 was so bad cause of it's grind.
Now people say wow is such a grind (when it is 100x easier than the first generation mmorpgs) and demand an even easier mode game (gw2).
In 5-10 years are they going to say gw2 was a grind? And demand a game specifically designed for 3 year olds to be able to play through entirely?
I just see sort of a dumbing down of the industry as it heads in this direction, which makes me wonder why they think it is innovative to make games easier and easier.
And yes having a game with less of a grind tends to hint at them wanting to make it easier, because if it was challenging for the casual gamer he would consider it a grind because it would take significantly longer to succeed.
Also if you look at the gw1 community you will understand that they really are not used to the more challenging aspects of mmorpgs, so to them any common mmorpg challenge will be considered "too much to be fun".
I actually think it is more innovative to go against the grain in a true manner and make an mmorpg that is very very challenging, instead of making them easier and easier like we currently see.
How does grind = challenge?
Perhaps it's the challenge of getting through the boredom?
There are mindless grinds and challenging grinds.
Perhaps you completely missed the entire thing that this article was about.... LEVEL GRIND. Perhaps you also missed the multiple articles about things like the removal of grinding/farming for skills and stuff, since with the Traits system, there will be sort of like a quest related to obtaining many of the traits, and in some cases something as simple as talking to the right NPC. There will be no grinding a skill, or farming the same mob repeatedly hoping it drops the skill youre looking for or whatever.
Nice attempt at insightful judgement based on let's see.... nothing... about my attitude. I dont have any issue with a MEANINGFUL grind, but too many games simply put in a fake grind that doesnt serve any real purpose other than to keep you playing and paying longer. Since GW doesn't have a sub, ther eis no real incentive for them to want to keep you busy for months and months grinding away and paying them that sub. Perhaps you enjoy doing the same exact thing over and over and over and over and over and over for months on end in order to play your games, but i would much rather actually, you know enjoy the game and have fun without worrying about "Oh noes I have to sit in this spot for 200 more hours because its the only place that gives me good enough XP". I have enough other games to play that give me that grind, and am currently playing one now.
As far as what he pointed out... that has nothing to do with "grind". The gaining of levels themselves is not what defines the grind, it is the means of getting there. If youre gaining levels through exploring new content, quests, going new places, fighting new things, etc =/= grind. Having to keep kiling the same thing, repeat the same exact quest over and over again = grind. That's what Arenanet is attempting to avoid, the need to repeat much of anything, and to have a new experience every time you log into the game by causing the world to change, even when youre not there to see it change.
Similar to you, i cant stand when people act like spoiled little brats, though for me it's because theyre unable to comprehend the difference between 2 things. Grind does not = challenge. Grind = extensive amount of tiem spent doing repetetive tasks, and has absolutely no correlation to how difficult that task is. Grind could be killing thousands of mobs that you 1 shot (meaning it is extremely easy to do), or it could be killing 100 enemies that it takes you 10 shots to kill. Its about repetition. Removal of grind does not = easy game. You have no idea how difficult the gameplay itself, as well as completing anything in order to level will be. As ive said time and time again to others with your attitude... stop trying to take features out of context by taking X from GW2, then insert it into ANY other game and say "well thats how it would be in this game, so that must be how it is i GW2!". It doesnt work like that. GW2 is its own game, with its own features, playstyle, story, and way of doing things. The sooner you understand that fact, the sooner you'll stop making ridiculous assumptions about how "easy" the game will be.
I like challenges. I don't like grinds. Fighting a good opponent in pvp or pve can be a challenge. I certainly don't think those are grinds. I remember in Lineage 2 i had to fight monster after monster, same thing over and over again to level my character. It was grind, it certainly wasn't challenging or even engaging. It was tedium. All it is there for is to keep my subscription because it gives me the illusion that I'm progressing my character. There are other ways to make "challenges" and certainly more ways to make engaging gameplay. A grind is a developers lazy and easy way out of making a game.
Obviously having the exact same time frame for each level makes each level repetitive in that regard. Which would be a grind...