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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Space Combat Cont'd: On Rails Edition!
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
MMORPG.com Community Manager Michael Bitton has another fascinating article about space combat in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Last week, Mike expressed concern over Bioware's statement that space combat would be an "alternative gameplay experience". But what a difference a week makes. Find out if Mike still has worries about space combat...or not.
The language used in the original announcement, namely that the space combat component would be an “alternative gameplay experience”, something to do when not focused on the “primary game of story-telling, questing, and ground-based combat.” got me a bit worried. This was starting to sound like space combat would be a bit of a side-show, not something players could really sink into. In fact, I drew comparisons to the space combat mini-game featured in Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures, the Star Wars MMO designed by SOE for a younger demographic (think Free Realms with a Star Wars skin). However, I was hopeful that we’d see something more akin to Star Wars Galaxies’ Jump to Lightspeed, which actually did a really good job at capturing the Star Wars space experience overall.
Read Space Combat Cont’d: On Rails Edition.
Comments
What a disappointment if this is true. As Michael said its all about both aspects. Space and land combat. I guess I will just have to enjoy what they release. Hopefully they will add non-rail space combat down the road and tir it into the story, not just as a side mission or mini-game.
I think people who claim to be upset about the news have only got themselves to blame.
You are in space and there is combat. Bioware in no way have stated they are trying to make an MMOSpaceSim game.
Yes, maybe they shouldn't of bothered with this "half-assed rail shooter" and dedicated more development to the core of the game.
This game is being marketed as an RPG not a Flight Sim. If anything the unhappy people should be pleased there is any space combat in it at all.
This is EXACTLY why people are upset. It's like putting in a mini-game and then stating "Well, it's only going to be an sub-par afterthought." Why even put it into the game if all it will do is disappoint? The unhappy people are probably even more upset, because Bioware is saying "Oh! We have space combat!" and the space players are thinking "What the f*ck? That's all you're going to offer?"
I'm not a fanboi nor troll to this game, but I definitely think SW:TOR is quite overhyped.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
What they are advertising isn't the point. It is the fact that this is Star Wars. Space combat is a given mandate, and this rail-game fails to address that. Sure, I'll play, most will, likely it will be a pretty good game. But Bioware is a newbie to MMOs, and evidence suggests they don't totally "get" the nature of expectations. Indeed, as noted, they are marketing this as a glorified RPG game. Which is sad. But it will be the only viable Star Wars game in town, so we are stuck.
Comstrike
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Founder, Leader, www.SonsOfNumenor.com LOTRO - SW.ToR (Yes, we are recruiting)
I'd have to agree that people only have themselves to blame. What people were "expecting" - X-wing vs Tie Fighter. What people are getting - Rogue Squadron.
When you stop and think about the focus of this game, it all makes sense though. Lets talk about the word "iconic" thats been used. Though they had some dogfighting in the movies, I daresay some of the most memorable parts were viewed from a rails POV.
Destroying the deathstar is just one example, but ultimately, the idea of a tunnel shooter makes sense with the cinematic gameplay, outlining the most heroic parts of your journey.
This doesn't mean that the gameplay won't be challenging, or fun for that matter, but people get the idea in their head that space should be all open ended and not focused as BioWare is doing here.
In truth though, BioWare isn't making a game just to wallow around in with nothing to do. They've created a vast storyline with literally hundreds of hours of content per-class, expansive worlds to explore, and very focused core gameplay that caters to the fast paced, cinematic combat that is prevalent in the star wars films. In this sense, they may not feel a game where you can fly around for 10 minutes through deadspace to get to a quest objective is the right choice for what they are doing.
If SOE, who most of us love to bash, could put out JTL, which is an acceptable space combat component, I would think that an organization like Bioware, backed by LucasArts, could've done so much better than a "tunnel shooter". I am so very disappointed. This has knocked down by excitement for the game by a few notches. I would have rather had no space combat to start then to be stuck with this for who knows how long (perhaps forever as the author posits).
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Im happy with what theyre doing. I hope they don't spend too much time on the space part
Now, it will be like 7 different little death star trench runs repeated. I wasn't buying this game for the space content anyhow, but as you say, I'd rather none than something simple like this.
I'm not really surprised by the facts, this is pretty much what I expected if they were to have space content at launch.
Why is it a mandate that a Starwars games have to include space combat? is it mandate that they include lightsaber duels in all Starwars games? (meaning X-wing vs Tie Fighter is not a Starwars game) or politics as that was a big part of Starwars.
I'm happy with it. I wasn't expecting Jump to Lightspeed. You also don't know how much the space aspect will be improved upon in the following years. But a space game that is a side/mini game works for me, exceptionally well. As long as it is Fun and has a nice progression aspect to it, I'm all about it.
Meh, TBH I was not EXPECTING ANYTHING so this news that there IS space combat and it was added as an afterthought is what you get.
Sounds to me like they were not going to have it for obvious resource reasons, so much being put into the voice over and story telling. Then some Talking Head gets the grand idea that we can toss in some shnitty space crap and everyone would be happy! Yeah, they need to realize that the players of this game are not 10 year olds and that no one likes to play Tiger portable games any longer.
With that said, is the game gonna be FAIL because of it? Not for me. Was not expecting anything other than a housing aspect of the space arena anyway. So this is a bit of a letdown but, it is not a deal killer for me.
I seriously think it is some marketing HACK or EXECUTIVE that thought they new better and ORDER some crap like this added in the game. Just goes to show how far CEO's are removed from the populace.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
I don't understand how anyone could be happy about this, either. Where did our expectations go? I'd agree that it would have been better to leave out than have in from the beginning, with hopes of a more full, expansive space game to come in the future, but to everyone who's jumping on the "this isn't a sim game, they never promised space" bandwagon: thanks for giving the developers a pass on this one. Rather than develop something that might be deep, or meaningful, they've proven all that's necessary is attaching a Star Wars skin to something rote, over done, and completely devoid of any independent creativity or thought. Sure, everyone who's saying that space was never the centerpiece of TOR is right, but it doesn't mean that we should stop holding these designers to higher standards. Honestly, they can do better, and we all know that's true.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
good comment 100% agree!
I'm looking for a fun game experience in TOR and this side game of space combat will be just that. I would never expect a space sim in a themepark game. That would be a joke and any gamer expecting a sandbox feature in a themepark game is insane.
As far as space beng a big part of SW? I just don't get it. Maybe in some book I have never read, but anyone saying this based on the movies is just plan wrong. Every move space experience was a "on rails" experience. This type of cinematic filled actun style space combat that TOR will have is much closer to a movie experience than any sim. I am just fine with this side game experience. Bring it on BW.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
As i wrote in a similar post on mmorpg forums: did the absense of space combat hinder poeple from enjoying KotOR, one of the best rpg's in the last decade and best SW game ever released? No, it did not. TOR is based on the KotOR series lore where space combat ,right or not, plays an insignificant role. Bioware never promised a fully fledged space sim experience in the first place.
I have to agree. SWG got 1 thing RIGHT SPACE COMBAT. There space Combat and PoB ship's was the main reason I played it. Having your whole Team running Turrets and a Eng. or 2 to keep your ship running was such a great way to do Sp[ace. I for one can't beleave that Wing Commander MMO or something wouldn't have came out with this type of Game play. It made Space a Fub, action packed time. I'm upset yes.But if this is just for story and they are going to do something like LightSpeed in a year or so. Then I'm Happy,BUT we need to know what they are thinking.
LOL. Politics? Really? Nothing in Episode 4 (the first movie made and the basis for everything after) even remotely resembles politics. Same for the next two movies.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
I love how he phrases this point right here. The "nature of expectations". Why expect anything? Unless you made the game, produced the game, or were involved in any step of creation you shouldn't expect it to do anything. Honestly, I think that an X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter experience would only serve to detract what is already shaping up to be a fairly solid game. If you put something like that in game we'd be waiting for the game to load from one engine to the other and back again. It would be endless loading screens like STO was. Of course I'm the guy who thought that the fishing aspect of WoW was the best part of that worthless game. I'm not some Bioware nut-hugger, but I certainly don't "expect" anything except a Star Wars experience. And yes, I did love Starfox and the Rogue Squadron games. Am I disappointed? Nope. I'm just hoping it's a better experience than STO was. Now that was a total clusterf@ck.
Don't think... Feel.
Honestly I think its far better then nothing. With SW:TOR I was NOT expecting a space shooter, what I AM expecting is a decent ground based interpretation of Star Wars in the KOTOR timeline. I am not quite sure why there has been such a big emphasis by the fans of getting a space shooter in a ground based MMO. Don't get me wrong, X-wing is one of my all time favourite games and I would LOVE to have that in an MMO form.. but with SW:TOR I am primarily after the ground action.
This is the main point though, games are supposed to be fun. I don't see why everyone continues to complain about what they expected and didn't get before they even find out whether this style is fun and rewarding.
Its not JTL, and theres a good reason why, JTL already exists, and you can go play it right now by joining SWG. Its not giving BioWare a "pass" because they followed their own vision. If BioWare wanted to make a sandbox game, it would have been a sandbox game. If they wanted to make a flight simulator, this would have been a flight simulator. BioWare isn't hurting for resources, time, or money. They are one of the biggest developers, backed by one of the biggest publishers in the world.
I think people should think more about what this style of space combat will offer, and the experience BioWare is trying to present instead of thinking about all the other flight simulators that do a better job. I'm playing this game to have fun, and if a rail shooter is fun and exciting, then what need do I have to complain?
Jesus, this is definitely part of the problem, right here. Did we turn into pussies as consumers, or something? Holding people, and companies, to expectations is the only way you can ensure that their productions will become better over time, and not worse. Otherwise, they're going to give you as much or as little as they can get away with, while keeping themselves profitable. That's just the way things work. I didn't expect space to be in the game at all, either, but I did expect that, if they ever decided to put it in, it would serve some larger purpose than an on-rails space shooter, or expand upon what they did with the KOTOR space game beyond seven different environments to tunnel snipe a line of ducks.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
What irks me about these complaints is that they're all offering games like Star Fox and Rogue Squadron up as arguments for The Old Republic's own on-rails parallel being a disappointment, when both those titles were great games. You're being given access to a completely optional, potentially awesome gameplay experience outside the genre without sacrificing any of The Old Republic MMO elements. Far from seeing the harm in that, I'm only seeing positives. I'm all for this implementation of space combat.
Ha, thats the point isn't it? You can hold them to whatever expectation you want, but they don't have to meet your expectation, and you don't have to buy their product. No one is rolling over because they are okay with the creation of a system they had no expectations for. If you want to voice your opinion on what IS in the game, you can do that all day, but if you want your expectations to rule what the developers are going to do you'll need much more capital. Like, enough to either build your own game, or buy BioWare. Otherwise, show BioWare your dislike by not buying the game.
We as consumers have a choice. Buy it or not. Doesn't get more simple then that.
I honestly suspect SWTOR will be train wreck. 150 million dollars. Limonade. Having to compete with WOW Cataclysm + Guildwars 2
They stand no chance. Perhaps only if they make it F2P
[Mod Edit]
In an odd sort of way, the news does make me happy. However, it is only because now I know there is no point whatsoever to continue following this game or watching it. (except possibly to cackle on the sidelines and hope for a trainwreck)
Bioware has made it increasingly clear that this simply will not be a game for me.