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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Space Combat Cont'd: On Rails Edition!

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Comments

  • Snaylor47Snaylor47 Member Posts: 962

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Funny how many people jump on people that play Wow and then come here and post how much they are looking forward to this game.

    If you have not figured it out yet, this is just another theme park, basically a Wow in space.  You are basically looking at two factions so beyond battlegrounds you won't see much balanced pvp.  

    I just don't see anything innovative about this game, they just are trying to do it better than others have before them using pretty much the same design.

    I am not saying this game won't do well, but don't come here praising this game and bashing Wow, there is little difference between them.  Bioware knows what Blizzzard has been successful at and will not deviate far from that model. 

    So you can bet if you got bored with Wow, it won't take you long in Bioware's new game either.

    Go play GW2. I like my trinity themepark game TYVM. 

    I don't care about innovation I care about fun.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by MacLinux

    Star Wars without Stars (a ridiculous railshooter) and without Wars ( no open pvp) I hope (last hope) we'll have a bit of Old Republic in this Clone wars with sub ^^ Couldn't imagine SWG made by SOE could be better than SWTOR made by Bioware. ^^ MMo's world is really fun. World of epic fails.

    .....

    SWTOR will have open world PvP....  It won't matter much to you anyway,  they already said this game is for PC only.

     

    No Mac/Linux    image



  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751

    Quelle surprise.

     

    I'm all for sandbox, skill based mmos with full FFA pvp and looting. But lets face it, BW are pushing this game at the majority of players, and the majority want a more casual based mmo 'on rails'.

     

    To quote Dick Tuck: "The people have spoken.....the bastards".

     

    Frankly i'm suprised that BW have bothered to make the rail shooter mini game as polished as it seems, because it was obvious from the outset it wasn't a priority for them. Be thankful for small mercies and if, like me, you don't want a themepark casual game, look at other alternatives instead of moaning that SWTOR is not what you want it to be.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Quelle surprise.

     

    I'm all for sandbox, skill based mmos with full FFA pvp and looting. But lets face it, BW are pushing this game at the majority of players, and the majority want a more casual based mmo 'on rails'.

     

    To quote Dick Tuck: "The people have spoken.....the bastards".

     

    Frankly i'm suprised that BW have bothered to make the rail shooter mini game as polished as it seems, because it was obvious from the outset it wasn't a priority for them. Be thankful for small mercies and if, like me, you don't want a themepark casual game, look at other alternatives instead of moaning that SWTOR is not what you want it to be.

    Strangely enough ...  Good post.



  • RoccprofitRoccprofit Member Posts: 98

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Originally posted by slipfeed

    Hi, I havn't even seen the game mechanic in action much less played it, but I am very upset and I will now throw an internet fit because I am a complete idiot.

     

    *oh its so horrible, im so disapointed, this is the worst game ever created and I can tell just from a single feature and a picture of another game QQ and RAGE*

     

    /sarcasm

     

    The original knights of the old republic games featured a silly little rail shooter minigame.  The knights of the old republic mmo will feature a silly little rail shooter minigame.

     

    If you are surprised by this "shocking developmnet" please dont breed.  We don't need your dumbspawn pulling us back down the evolutionary lader.

    Maybe you should take your own advice, your post shows enough lack of civility to indicate that might be a good course of action.  Nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone, but there is no cause to be nasty.

    So the way I read this posters original message "never expect more then what you have cause it is stupid" well, if people of the past would have thought as you seem to none of us would be here talking about this game at all because no pc's would have ever been designed,built,or thought of because they were all just stupid for having wanted more then they already had ....

     Yes I played KOTOR Both of them and they were awsome and in fact I am thinking about installing one of them again just to get my light sabre fix while I wait for this game to come out but, the fact remains even in the KOTOR stories the space bits came off to me like an after thought not an actual part of the game just something they threw in at the last moment.

     Whether or not anyone likes it or thinks it is logical the fact remains that the only other game out there involving Star Wars in a mmo setting is SWG and they at SOE have set the bench mark, mind you they did not do it well, but they set it none the less. Many Star Wars fans were put off by Sony's constant mishandling and flubs when trying to make an iconic and Star Warsy experince and in many cases missing the mark entirely and many will be looking to The Old Repub to do better. Why ? because bioware has decided to throw there hat in the mmo ring in that ring they will be competing with other mmo's just like in the rpg ring they would be competing with other rpgs and as I mentioned SWG is the only other Star Wars mmo out there.

     I am not saying that the day of release they need to have a full blown free form space part as well as the ground game I personally would be perfectly happy to have what I think is shaping up to be an amazing ground game and down the road they release The old Repub space expansion. If this game is half as good as I think it will be from what I have seen so far I would gladly trundle down to wal-mart to buy this new space expansion.

     If we were talking about the new RPG KOTOR 3 (not yet a real title to my knowlede) then they might be able to get away with another game that had an after thought or rail style space game because that is what the first 2 KOTOR's did but, any game devloper will tell you that you can only rehash the same old stuff so many times and people will expect bigger and better the next time.

    We how ever are not in the RPG realm this is a mmo and expectations will be higher/different then in a RPG setting. Yes, I know I am repeating myself but, this does not seem clear to many.

    But the original posters message seems to say "if you want better then you already had your stupid" personally I feel that anyone with that type of thought process needs to be the one that does not breed. Had no one wanted bigger and better we would all be living in caves and apparently the original poster would find this a good thing .....

        

    image

  • RoccprofitRoccprofit Member Posts: 98

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Quelle surprise.

     

    I'm all for sandbox, skill based mmos with full FFA pvp and looting. But lets face it, BW are pushing this game at the majority of players, and the majority want a more casual based mmo 'on rails'.

     

    To quote Dick Tuck: "The people have spoken.....the bastards".

     

    Frankly i'm suprised that BW have bothered to make the rail shooter mini game as polished as it seems, because it was obvious from the outset it wasn't a priority for them. Be thankful for small mercies and if, like me, you don't want a themepark casual game, look at other alternatives instead of moaning that SWTOR is not what you want it to be.

    Strangely enough ...  Good post.

    Good in the fact that at least he is not as rude as the other guy but has the same message imo "nvr expect more then you have"

     Anyone who does not relize that SWG had a huge space community simpley was not paying attention, maybe they were not paying attention because they were not interested in space, ok fine space was not for everyone ,but that does not change the fact that there was a huge space community and I firmly believe BW has the ability to do it so much better.

     You say that all the people just want a simple game, then how do you explain that when SWG went from an intricate thought provoking and highly optionalized method of making your charactor  to basically space wow there player base drastically dropped and has been in such a steady decline ever since that now they only have 5-10 servers instead of the 20-30 they had pre-cu ?

     In its hayday we had planet spanning battles where literally there were 1000's of people running around the planet shoting at each other and I mean 1000's on both sides and the planets in question would take you a good 15-20 min just to cross minimum on a decent speeder and only if you went in a straight line from one side to the other and you would miss 90% of the actual planet going in a straght line on a narrow path like that. You did not dare relax or take down your guard for an instant because on this huge planet the enemy was literally everywhere.

     During the NGE we had some fun battles but, no where near the lvl of those pre-cu instead of 1000's of people on both sides you had maybe 15 maybe as much as 30 on each side and after a few decent battles it was a matter of standing around the base watching the grass grow while waiting for more enemys.

     During pre-cu if you were brave enough you could toggle yourself to be open to pvp any time any where and if you did it was guaranteed someone somewhere would start shooting at you and then you call your friends for backup and they call theres and there you are again in the middle of a huge battle. All you had to do to instigate these things was toggle your self to open pvp or overt as it was called. We did not talk to the enemy and ask politly if he had enough friends on to come have a battle we just starting shooting and they would come. Post-cu it was a matter of "oh there is an enemy lets send him a tell to see if he has enough friends on to come have a little battle ...... he doesnt ? dang it ! well lets go check the "pvp zone" nobody there ? crap lets go check the other one ..... Oh I found a guy ! shot shot ! ok he is dead! *wait* *wait* *wait* well lets go check the other zones ....." you spent more time looking for a battle then you did battleing. To me this equals A LOT less people playing the game.

     In addition to that pru-cu you saw 1000's of people in ANY city you went to and although I would agree that the buff lines sucked the fact remains that aside from the 1000's of people running around doing other things the most popular starports had lines long long lines of people waiting to get buffs and there would be 3-4 lines like this that would take you a good 1-2 hours to get from the end of the line up to the front to get your buffs not because it took a long time to get the buffs themselfs but because of the massivly large number of people playing this game. The buff lines most definatly sucked no one had fun in a buff line but, yet day after day the lines to get buffs were huge and getting buffs was a very lengthy process yet people did it everyday because they were looking forward to that huge battle that would ensue.Post -cu and into the NGE you could get in get your buffs and be on your way in 5 min tops because there would be maybe 5 people waiting for buffs and it was a dang good thing these buffs took 5 hours to wear off cause by the time you found a battle you might have 30-40 min left on them and the people giving these buffs were pretty much at one place depending on the server. Most enemys you might see at this time were either not overt or if they were ran like hell at the first sight of a enemy.

     These are just the huge battles I mention here this says nothing of the 100's of smaller skirmishes all over the game not to metion the 1000's of people that were not interested in the battles and skirmishes and had tons of other things to do.

     Then they brought us JTL now in addition to the 1000's of people in those huge battles on this or that planet and the 100's of smaler skirmish's all over the place and the 1000's of people doing other things you could go into space and again have the option to declare your self overt (open to pvp) and with certaintiy someone somewhere would start shooting at you and you call in your friends and they call in theres and here you are in space so many enemy contacts on the radar that it is just a red blob. in order to be competive on this a lot of thinking hand to go into which parts your could fit on your ship, which ones were more important to your play/flying style, were sheild more important because your ship had a large hit box ? or were guns more important because you had a small or fast ship and could do lighting fast strafing runs on your targets? could you get more power out of your reactor without sacrifcing speed or weapons strength? should you run this over load to the engines or that overload to your weapons or could you get a reactor large enough yet low enough mass to fit in your ship ? Player owned ship parts vendors in every player city many hours pouring over the available parts to get the one part you needed. Post-cu and nge you MIGHT find an enemy or two if you went to pvp space and more often then not at the first sign of a player enemy they ran like hell or if they engaged it was a short fight and you were then left waiting again for a player enemy to come along     

     So to recap, pre-cu huge planet wide battles waged at the drop of a hat any time of the day or night, post-cu and NGE short lines, easy buffs, lots of looking for battles and often finding none. Seems to me that it was worse off as a less detailed game.

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by Roccprofit

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Quelle surprise.

     

    I'm all for sandbox, skill based mmos with full FFA pvp and looting. But lets face it, BW are pushing this game at the majority of players, and the majority want a more casual based mmo 'on rails'.

     

    To quote Dick Tuck: "The people have spoken.....the bastards".

     

    Frankly i'm suprised that BW have bothered to make the rail shooter mini game as polished as it seems, because it was obvious from the outset it wasn't a priority for them. Be thankful for small mercies and if, like me, you don't want a themepark casual game, look at other alternatives instead of moaning that SWTOR is not what you want it to be.

    Strangely enough ...  Good post.

    <snip>

    SWG was worse off not just because they made it a less detailed game,  but because they changed the game TWICE -- not just the class design,  but the combat,  your skills,  pretty much a complete overhaul.  When the NGE hit,  they didn't just change the class structure, they removed classes,  one of which was the Creature Handler which was one of the most popular classes.  They ostracized their playerbase,  not to mention they never FIXED anything,  they just ADDED more content and changed the design in lieu of fixing it because they couldn't manage their own game engine.  They tried to make it an easier class based game to balance it,  but they ruined it even more.

     

    BioWare isn't doing that at all.  They have a specific vision on what they are trying to accomplish with classes, gameplay, and yes,  even space combat.  Does it mean this game will be WORSE because they take away some misinterpreted complexity?  Not at all.  This game has every option to become just as exciting, just as involved, and perhaps even more popular then games twice as complex.  

     

    Over all SWG and TOR are two different games,  and SWTOR shouldn't be treated as a sequel,  yet some players believe that if its not SWG2  then it isn't worth it.   I know a lot of the most critical of this game were SWG fans,  and I was a SWG fan too,  but I'm not going to pretend that this game is trash just because SWG was turned into a shadow of a good game.  Let BioWare create their own vision,  and not the vision others try to impose on it.  Even to the most vicious SWG fanboy, this game may still be fun and show some merits,  if only people would be willing to give it a chance rather then attack it blindly.



  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper Member CommonPosts: 2,751

    Originally posted by Roccprofit

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Quelle surprise.

     

    I'm all for sandbox, skill based mmos with full FFA pvp and looting. But lets face it, BW are pushing this game at the majority of players, and the majority want a more casual based mmo 'on rails'.

     

    To quote Dick Tuck: "The people have spoken.....the bastards".

     

    Frankly i'm suprised that BW have bothered to make the rail shooter mini game as polished as it seems, because it was obvious from the outset it wasn't a priority for them. Be thankful for small mercies and if, like me, you don't want a themepark casual game, look at other alternatives instead of moaning that SWTOR is not what you want it to be.

    Strangely enough ...  Good post.

    Rose tinted glasses stuff.

    SWG never at any time had 1000's v 1000's battles before, during or after the NGE, I should know I played it extensively enough (see the 'lots of crap' part of my sig). So lets drop the pretense please. Besides, BW are trying to capture millions of subs, not thousands or hundreds of thousands.

    As for saying the NGE caused subs to drop just because it simplified the game is also, funnily enough, over simplifying what happened to the game, and whilst it was a part of the problem it certainly wasn't the only reason for its decline.

    There are current MMO's that have FFA pvp where you are perma flagged (Darkfall, MO, EVE), there are games with massive sandboxes (Darkfall, EVE), there are games with skill systems (Darkfall, EVE) and games with crafting systems even pre CU SWG players could only dream about (EVE). Those games are out there, I know because I play them  and guess what, compared to WOW they have tiny playerbases.

    So lets recap, whilst I personally only play and enjoy sandbox MMO's with full on PVP and player looting (something SWG never had incidentally), the MAJORITY of players do not subscribe to that model. BW and their investors are spending an inordinate amount of money on TOR, they are not going to aim it at the niche market.

    I stand by my post, it has been clear to anyone with one iota of sense that BW wasn't about to go and turn TOR into SWG mark II, so whats the point in banging on about it?  Whilst I won't be playing it I hope it turns out to be as well executed and as enjoyable as other more traditional BW games are for those that do.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • RoccprofitRoccprofit Member Posts: 98

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by Roccprofit


    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Quelle surprise.

     

    I'm all for sandbox, skill based mmos with full FFA pvp and looting. But lets face it, BW are pushing this game at the majority of players, and the majority want a more casual based mmo 'on rails'.

     

    To quote Dick Tuck: "The people have spoken.....the bastards".

     

    Frankly i'm suprised that BW have bothered to make the rail shooter mini game as polished as it seems, because it was obvious from the outset it wasn't a priority for them. Be thankful for small mercies and if, like me, you don't want a themepark casual game, look at other alternatives instead of moaning that SWTOR is not what you want it to be.

    Strangely enough ...  Good post.

    SWG was worse off not just because they made it a less detailed game,  but because they changed the game TWICE -- not just the class design,  but the combat,  your skills,  pretty much a complete overhaul.  When the NGE hit,  they didn't just change the class structure, they removed classes,  one of which was the Creature Handler which was one of the most popular classes.  They ostracized their playerbase,  not to mention they never FIXED anything,  they just ADDED more content and changed the design in lieu of fixing it because they couldn't manage their own game engine.  They tried to make it an easier class based game to balance it,  but they ruined it even more.

     

    BioWare isn't doing that at all.  They have a specific vision on what they are trying to accomplish with classes, gameplay, and yes,  even space combat.  Does it mean this game will be WORSE because they take away some misinterpreted complexity?  Not at all.  This game has every option to become just as exciting, just as involved, and perhaps even more popular then games twice as complex.  

     

    Over all SWG and TOR are two different games,  and SWTOR shouldn't be treated as a sequel,  yet some players believe that if its not SWG2  then it isn't worth it.   I know a lot of the most critical of this game were SWG fans,  and I was a SWG fan too,  but I'm not going to pretend that this game is trash just because SWG was turned into a shadow of a good game.  Let BioWare create their own vision,  and not the vision others try to impose on it.  Even to the most vicious SWG fanboy, this game may still be fun and show some merits,  if only people would be willing to give it a chance rather then attack it blindly.

    I agree totally they completly chaged the game not once not twice but over and over and over instead of fine tuning what they had they did complete rewrites even into the NGE and although my friends leaving the game was a large part of me finally giving it up, the other part of it was that everytime they posted the comeing "update" to this class or that class it was not a "adjustment" you had to learn that charactor all over again every single time and that gets old quick.

     The fact remains though that the game will be judged by those that came before it, I am not saing it is going to be a bad game in fact I think it will be an amazing game from what I have seen, but it WILL be judged by the games that came before it and right now the only mmo game in a Star Wars setting out there is SWG. If you think this not to be the case look up info on WOW vs LOTRO although the rage has cooled a lot there was a huge battle that still rages in some places as to which is better because both are based on the same ideal although LOTRO is more for LOTR fans, look up info on WOW vs STO again a large battle as to which is better and they are totally different games. 

     By making this game BioWare has thrown there hat in the mmo ring and people will judge it against other mmo's and the main one they are gonna be judgeing it against will be SWG why ? because while there are many many many fantasy, sword and sorcery games to choose from there is only one other mmo in a Star Wars world, there is however another game that is space based and it will also be judged against that, the game is EVEonline and although I hate EVE myself there is no dening that there are a great many people that like it which shows in the large number of people playing it still to this day.

     Everyone here seems to think there way is the only way, but there are many different people that have many different taste and for the guys that are gonna say that is what I am doing I say to see what I am talking about come out of your little world and look at what people do the pattern repeats over and over and over people will judge any product that comes out be it a car or a T.V by the products that came before it. Same here people are going to judge any mmo that comes out by the ones that came before and BioWare needs to think about that.

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  • RoccprofitRoccprofit Member Posts: 98

    Originally posted by Ozmodan

    Funny how many people jump on people that play Wow and then come here and post how much they are looking forward to this game.

    If you have not figured it out yet, this is just another theme park, basically a Wow in space.  You are basically looking at two factions so beyond battlegrounds you won't see much balanced pvp.  

    I just don't see anything innovative about this game, they just are trying to do it better than others have before them using pretty much the same design.

    I am not saying this game won't do well, but don't come here praising this game and bashing Wow, there is little difference between them.  Bioware knows what Blizzzard has been successful at and will not deviate far from that model. 

    So you can bet if you got bored with Wow, it won't take you long in Bioware's new game either.

     Although basic game design may be the case because it is true there are only so many ways to lay out a mmo, there is a good deal of differance between the taste of  fantasy mmo player and a space based mmo player, looking from the perspective of all are the same holds some merit but is not totally accurate.

     I prefer a good space game to a fantasy game, given the choice I rather have a blaster then a sword or a sabre with force push instead of a enchanted glowing staff with a hurricane/typhoon/whatever the ablity is called that I don't remeber the exact name of that allows you to push people back with a blast of something. I would rather have a jetpack I could fly around on then a lion body with bat wings. I rather have a speeder bike or a swoop instead of a horse or a mammoth to ride/cart my friends around in.

       Although I think that any mmo will be judged by the ones that came before it, I would consent to the fact that people need to stop bashing one just because they like the other. People have different taste and should would be awful boring if we were all the same in every way.

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  • exigentgamerexigentgamer Member Posts: 71

    Originally posted by Benthon

    Originally posted by immodium

     

    Yes, maybe they shouldn't of bothered with this "half-assed rail shooter" and dedicated more development to the core of the game.

    This game is being marketed as an RPG not a Flight Sim. If anything the unhappy people should be pleased there is any space combat in it at all.

     This is EXACTLY why people are upset. It's like putting in a mini-game and then stating "Well, it's only going to be an sub-par afterthought." Why even put it into the game if all it will do is disappoint? The unhappy people are probably even more upset, because Bioware is saying "Oh! We have space combat!" and the space players are thinking "What the f*ck? That's all you're going to offer?"

     

    I'm not a fanboi nor troll to this game, but I definitely think SW:TOR is quite overhyped.

    its not a sub par after thought really, the graphics are decent the action seems pretty engaging, so you cant fly like in top gun with flips and barrel rolls but did you ever see them do that much in any of the star wars movies? no not really it was up down side to side and shooting. Besides this isn't EVE or anything like that, while it is star wars, wars in the stars, Star Wars has always been about STORY. The personal character battle, between good and evil with the over reaching story arc of that personal struggle effecting the galaxy. Space battle was always just to get from one place to another and blowing up bad guys to get away.  If you want a flight sim then go buy one. i for one was never a huge fan of flight, its nice to have my own ship to hide out on and what not. Like in SWG I just used it to go AFK so a bounty hunter didn't  jack me.

     

    As far as this being WoW with a star wars skin, are you kidding me? Have any of you played the game yet? I doubt that you have, highly doubt it. Just stop acting like you know everything about everything you look like a fool.

  • taylorwalktaylorwalk Member Posts: 8

    yet another disappointing development on this failboat of a game.... had only bioware not been prostituted by LusasSharts into making a SW Wow clone... yes I said a no risk taking wow clone... if you still like wow, that is fine... Me I personally prefer to stay off the hamster wheel, since the biscuits end up all being the same, and you only have to work to keep what you have already achieved, unlike in the RW where things build upon one another....

     

    Bioware was working on Star Trek online.... we need more sandbox, more real lose and gain in games, and less catering to the lowest common denominator, which has been the trend since gaming became the highest grossing entertainment medium in the world...

     

    yes you heard me... games are made for 11 year olds now... and not even intelligent... most of their friend don't play video games, let alone know how to use a computer in the same way 11 year olds... but whiny, sniveling, sugar crazed mutant eleven year olds... ffs let it go... support anything but this crap

  • lordpenquinlordpenquin Member Posts: 129

    Wow!  Let's go backwards in development.  I guess if I want star wars space combat I'll have to go to the OLD star wars game?  This game is dead to me now sadly.

  • soglosoglo Member Posts: 18

    Originally posted by lordpenquin

    Wow!  Let's go backwards in development.  I guess if I want star wars space combat I'll have to go to the OLD star wars game?  This game is dead to me now sadly.

    you won't be missed.

  • exigentgamerexigentgamer Member Posts: 71

    Originally posted by lordpenquin

    Wow!  Let's go backwards in development.  I guess if I want star wars space combat I'll have to go to the OLD star wars game?  This game is dead to me now sadly.

    youre dead to me.

  • HELLBITCHHELLBITCH Member Posts: 87

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    I'd have to agree that people only have themselves to blame.  What people were "expecting"  -  X-wing vs Tie Fighter.  What people are getting -  Rogue Squadron.

     

    When you stop and think about the focus of this game, it all makes sense though.  Lets talk about the word "iconic" thats been used.  Though they had some dogfighting in the movies, I daresay some of the most memorable parts were viewed from a rails POV. 

     

    Destroying the deathstar is just one example,  but ultimately,  the idea of a tunnel shooter makes sense with the cinematic gameplay,  outlining the most heroic parts of your journey.

     

    This doesn't mean that the gameplay won't be challenging, or fun for that matter,  but people get the idea in their head that space should be all open ended and not focused as BioWare is doing here.

     

    In truth though,  BioWare isn't making a game just to wallow around in with nothing to do.  They've created a vast storyline with literally hundreds of hours of content per-class, expansive worlds to explore,  and very focused core gameplay that caters to the fast paced, cinematic combat that is prevalent in the star wars films.  In this sense,  they may not feel a game where you can fly around for 10 minutes through deadspace to get to a quest objective is the right choice for what they are doing.

     

    THANK YOU! I mean wtf are you guys on about? Rogue Squadron was an EXCELLENT game, if we get anything close to that it will be freaking awesome.

    666

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by HELLBITCH

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    I'd have to agree that people only have themselves to blame.  What people were "expecting"  -  X-wing vs Tie Fighter.  What people are getting -  Rogue Squadron.

     

    When you stop and think about the focus of this game, it all makes sense though.  Lets talk about the word "iconic" thats been used.  Though they had some dogfighting in the movies, I daresay some of the most memorable parts were viewed from a rails POV. 

     

    Destroying the deathstar is just one example,  but ultimately,  the idea of a tunnel shooter makes sense with the cinematic gameplay,  outlining the most heroic parts of your journey.

     

    This doesn't mean that the gameplay won't be challenging, or fun for that matter,  but people get the idea in their head that space should be all open ended and not focused as BioWare is doing here.

     

    In truth though,  BioWare isn't making a game just to wallow around in with nothing to do.  They've created a vast storyline with literally hundreds of hours of content per-class, expansive worlds to explore,  and very focused core gameplay that caters to the fast paced, cinematic combat that is prevalent in the star wars films.  In this sense,  they may not feel a game where you can fly around for 10 minutes through deadspace to get to a quest objective is the right choice for what they are doing.

     

    THANK YOU! I mean wtf are you guys on about? Rogue Squadron was an EXCELLENT game, if we get anything close to that it will be freaking awesome.

    It's not going to be like Rogue Squadron. Rogue Squadron allowed you full control of your ship. This "on-rails thing will not.

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by HELLBITCH


    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    I'd have to agree that people only have themselves to blame.  What people were "expecting"  -  X-wing vs Tie Fighter.  What people are getting -  Rogue Squadron.

     

    When you stop and think about the focus of this game, it all makes sense though.  Lets talk about the word "iconic" thats been used.  Though they had some dogfighting in the movies, I daresay some of the most memorable parts were viewed from a rails POV. 

     

    Destroying the deathstar is just one example,  but ultimately,  the idea of a tunnel shooter makes sense with the cinematic gameplay,  outlining the most heroic parts of your journey.

     

    This doesn't mean that the gameplay won't be challenging, or fun for that matter,  but people get the idea in their head that space should be all open ended and not focused as BioWare is doing here.

     

    In truth though,  BioWare isn't making a game just to wallow around in with nothing to do.  They've created a vast storyline with literally hundreds of hours of content per-class, expansive worlds to explore,  and very focused core gameplay that caters to the fast paced, cinematic combat that is prevalent in the star wars films.  In this sense,  they may not feel a game where you can fly around for 10 minutes through deadspace to get to a quest objective is the right choice for what they are doing.

     

    THANK YOU! I mean wtf are you guys on about? Rogue Squadron was an EXCELLENT game, if we get anything close to that it will be freaking awesome.

    It's not going to be like Rogue Squadron. Rogue Squadron allowed you full control of your ship. This "on-rails thing will not.

    No, it didn't  not on all levels.  Much of the series was set as a tunnel shooter.   I would say hold judgement until you play it,  but that seems remarkably hard for people on this site to do.



  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by HELLBITCH


    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    I'd have to agree that people only have themselves to blame.  What people were "expecting"  -  X-wing vs Tie Fighter.  What people are getting -  Rogue Squadron.

     

    When you stop and think about the focus of this game, it all makes sense though.  Lets talk about the word "iconic" thats been used.  Though they had some dogfighting in the movies, I daresay some of the most memorable parts were viewed from a rails POV. 

     

    Destroying the deathstar is just one example,  but ultimately,  the idea of a tunnel shooter makes sense with the cinematic gameplay,  outlining the most heroic parts of your journey.

     

    This doesn't mean that the gameplay won't be challenging, or fun for that matter,  but people get the idea in their head that space should be all open ended and not focused as BioWare is doing here.

     

    In truth though,  BioWare isn't making a game just to wallow around in with nothing to do.  They've created a vast storyline with literally hundreds of hours of content per-class, expansive worlds to explore,  and very focused core gameplay that caters to the fast paced, cinematic combat that is prevalent in the star wars films.  In this sense,  they may not feel a game where you can fly around for 10 minutes through deadspace to get to a quest objective is the right choice for what they are doing.

     

    THANK YOU! I mean wtf are you guys on about? Rogue Squadron was an EXCELLENT game, if we get anything close to that it will be freaking awesome.

    It's not going to be like Rogue Squadron. Rogue Squadron allowed you full control of your ship. This "on-rails thing will not.

    No, it didn't  not on all levels.  Much of the series was set as a tunnel shooter.   I would say hold judgement until you play it,  but that seems remarkably hard for people on this site to do.

    Rogue Squardon allowed you to turn your ship and fly left and right. You could circle around the combat zone if you wanted to.

    Once you play it, it will be too late to change anything. See what fanboys consider whining, is actually feedback. A lot of people do not like this "on rails" shooter and they are stating why. If you don't like negative feedback, don't read it. BioWare doesn't need you to do PR for them anyway.

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  • exigentgamerexigentgamer Member Posts: 71

    gotta love all these know-it-all internet tough guys.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by HELLBITCH


    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    I'd have to agree that people only have themselves to blame.  What people were "expecting"  -  X-wing vs Tie Fighter.  What people are getting -  Rogue Squadron.

     

    When you stop and think about the focus of this game, it all makes sense though.  Lets talk about the word "iconic" thats been used.  Though they had some dogfighting in the movies, I daresay some of the most memorable parts were viewed from a rails POV. 

     

    Destroying the deathstar is just one example,  but ultimately,  the idea of a tunnel shooter makes sense with the cinematic gameplay,  outlining the most heroic parts of your journey.

     

    This doesn't mean that the gameplay won't be challenging, or fun for that matter,  but people get the idea in their head that space should be all open ended and not focused as BioWare is doing here.

     

    In truth though,  BioWare isn't making a game just to wallow around in with nothing to do.  They've created a vast storyline with literally hundreds of hours of content per-class, expansive worlds to explore,  and very focused core gameplay that caters to the fast paced, cinematic combat that is prevalent in the star wars films.  In this sense,  they may not feel a game where you can fly around for 10 minutes through deadspace to get to a quest objective is the right choice for what they are doing.

     

    THANK YOU! I mean wtf are you guys on about? Rogue Squadron was an EXCELLENT game, if we get anything close to that it will be freaking awesome.

    It's not going to be like Rogue Squadron. Rogue Squadron allowed you full control of your ship. This "on-rails thing will not.

    No, it didn't  not on all levels.  Much of the series was set as a tunnel shooter.   I would say hold judgement until you play it,  but that seems remarkably hard for people on this site to do.

    Rogue Squardon allowed you to turn your ship and fly left and right. You could circle around the combat zone if you wanted to.

    Once you play it, it will be too late to change anything. See what fanboys consider whining, is actually feedback. A lot of people do not like this "on rails" shooter and they are stating why. If you don't like negative feedback, don't read it. BioWare doesn't need you to do PR for them anyway.

    Again, Rogue Squadron allowed you to circle around on certain LEVELS,  not all of them.  Even in the sequels they still didn't leave it wide open for you, they still had some tunnel level gameplay.  This was also a completely FLIGHT BASED GAME.  Go figure. 

     

    This is the combat you will see in game,  whether people want to whine about it or not, and thats truly all it is, whining.  Not because players aren't getting what they want,  but because players just want to complain about TOR.  These very same people were complaining before space combat was announced,  and they are complaining even more after because they might actually have something to complain about now.

     

    Not that any of it would really matter,  but lets get real,  more than half of the people complaining about this feature on this forum never planned to play the game anyway.    These are the same people that complain that TOR is a single player MMO, or that its just like WoW, (which is contradictory) or that the space combat will be a turret style game,  but then say it will be like star fox.   These people will complain no matter the feature,  no matter the success.  



  • RoccprofitRoccprofit Member Posts: 98

    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Originally posted by Roccprofit


    Originally posted by maskedweasel


    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

    Quelle surprise.

     

    I'm all for sandbox, skill based mmos with full FFA pvp and looting. But lets face it, BW are pushing this game at the majority of players, and the majority want a more casual based mmo 'on rails'.

     

    To quote Dick Tuck: "The people have spoken.....the bastards".

     

    Frankly i'm suprised that BW have bothered to make the rail shooter mini game as polished as it seems, because it was obvious from the outset it wasn't a priority for them. Be thankful for small mercies and if, like me, you don't want a themepark casual game, look at other alternatives instead of moaning that SWTOR is not what you want it to be.

    Strangely enough ...  Good post.

    Rose tinted glasses stuff.

    SWG never at any time had 1000's v 1000's battles before, during or after the NGE, I should know I played it extensively enough (see the 'lots of crap' part of my sig). So lets drop the pretense please. Besides, BW are trying to capture millions of subs, not thousands or hundreds of thousands.

    As for saying the NGE caused subs to drop just because it simplified the game is also, funnily enough, over simplifying what happened to the game, and whilst it was a part of the problem it certainly wasn't the only reason for its decline.

    There are current MMO's that have FFA pvp where you are perma flagged (Darkfall, MO, EVE), there are games with massive sandboxes (Darkfall, EVE), there are games with skill systems (Darkfall, EVE) and games with crafting systems even pre CU SWG players could only dream about (EVE). Those games are out there, I know because I play them  and guess what, compared to WOW they have tiny playerbases.

    So lets recap, whilst I personally only play and enjoy sandbox MMO's with full on PVP and player looting (something SWG never had incidentally), the MAJORITY of players do not subscribe to that model. BW and their investors are spending an inordinate amount of money on TOR, they are not going to aim it at the niche market.

    I stand by my post, it has been clear to anyone with one iota of sense that BW wasn't about to go and turn TOR into SWG mark II, so whats the point in banging on about it?  Whilst I won't be playing it I hope it turns out to be as well executed and as enjoyable as other more traditional BW games are for those that do.

    If you nvr saw the massive battles then as a fellow gamer I feel sorry for you because pre-cu they were massive go look up the videos still on youtube.

    I have nvr played darkfall so can not comment on that but eve is more of a spread sheet online then a game and although you can click an area and fly your ship there you really dont "fly" it, you choose a target and orbit it the press f and head to lunch although during the battle you can alter the distance of your orbit it really does not change anything, if your guns and armor are better then whatever you shot at then your going to win if not you will lose. I went back and tried the free trail of EVE again last month because people had told me it changed, I don't know what they are actually playing but the file I got was the same thing but ran smoother ill give it that. 

     The trading in EVE is more agrovating then anything first you have to fly to the place,find out what they need, then fly to somewhere that has it and then fly back only to find out most times that somone else filled the order and your stuck with the cargo and end up flying around some more to find somewhere to sell it, seems amazing to me that in a world as supposedly advanced as EVE no one thought of communication.

     In order to make these runs you have to choose the "safe" route which takes many hours of real time if you want to make the run that is going to bring you big bucks and any sort of noticeable progress compaired to the time online. As I mentioned in another post some people like that as proved by it's continued exsistence but it in no way compaires to the ability to hop in a fighter and make strafing runs at a corvette or a star destroyer while fighting off enemy ships.

      Ground game in EVE .... oh yeah there is none you basically choose a base right click it and watch your ship  approach and dock.   When you land you are presented with a screen that has several icons you can click on to "go" to this office or that but you don't actually "go" anywhere clicking merely opens a text box where you can get your buisness done.

     If you want to get into actual numbers then wow probaly has several million active subs but, again go to youtube look up videos on multi-boxing you will see pages and pages of guys that run anywhere from 5-20 toons at one time and literally have a wall covered in monitors so they can have each toon on its own monitor. Go look at pwnboxer.com while the guy that runs that place only seems to run maybe 5 toons at once he has several teams made up of dif classes probaly has 5-10 subs all by himself. That is just represenative of one multi boxing sight I am familur with there are at least 5 dif sights I know of for multi-boxing programs and tons of "how to" sights do a google search for multi-boxing and you will be suprised at how many people are doing this. The point being that if you had actual data on how many people have multiple acccounts then the over all number of people playing would be much lower.

     They get away with multi-boxing in wow because Blizzard see's it as a valid play style and why not ? someone is paying for all those subs and all that cash is going straight into Blizzard's pocket. You can only have 1 toon from any 1 account online at any time so the guys that are running a wall of monitors and 20 toons are paying for 20 subs,there are A LOT more of these people then you would think. I had no idea when I first heard of it.

     Then there are the gold farmers/spamers although most of the gold sellers probaly use temp accounts for the transaction it self and the spaming they have to have some maxxed out toons to actually make that money because you can't loot anything on a new lvl 1 toon that is going to make you more then a few copper at a time.

     The point of this rant is to try to make it a bit more clear that at best WOW's numbers are inaccurate when it comes to actual players. I would be willling to bet that EVE or this DARKFALL does not have the spamers and gold farmers WOW does I can promise this in EVE simpley because of how long it takes to do anything in EVE. Sony up until the last year or two would ban people running more then one account at a time because you had to alter the base file to make it possible now they allow it so the number of people seen pre-cu would indicate to a thinking person a lot of players were actually playing. pre-cu if you looked at the radar fairly frequently as I did being a pre-cu jedi you noticed it did not matter where you were stand still for a few min and you would see people coming and going and moving around this was aside from the huge battles I personally attended nightly and many of my friends as well.It is truely sad that you missed out on all this activity it was truly amazingly fun.  

      

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  • PyscoJuggaloPyscoJuggalo Member UncommonPosts: 1,114

    Originally posted by Terikan3

    Originally posted by djnexus

    Good article, from the sounds of things it doesent look like ill be buying this game as soon as its released. Im gonna wait and see how things work out for the game. It sounds like SOE's space combat for SW galaxies will be better than this. 

    roflsauce. I hope a lot of people are like you.  Will leave more breathing room for people like me who want in on the ground floor to establish themselves as major players.  Have fun joining the rest of us as a nooblet.

    Actually a MMORPG n00b is someone who buys a crappy game in the first onth because they believe "It is the next greatest thing!"

     

    Most MMORPGs are failures, even expensively developed ones.  Little n00b, when your WoW playing azz has beeen in the Genre for over 3 years looking for a new game, talk to me.

    image
    --When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
    --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
    --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
    --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.

  • PyscoJuggaloPyscoJuggalo Member UncommonPosts: 1,114

    And to the people who have these arguments:

     

    1- "Atleast they have some sort of space game."

    2- "You did not know they had a space game before, this don't matter."

     

    Here is an analogy on what Bioware did.:

     

    Would everyone agree that chocolate sundaes are really good? 

    Argument one believes you can add anything to a chocolate sundae and it will be a REALLY AWESOME chocolate sundae.  Argument 2 argues, it is still a chocolate sundae, it don't matter what Bioware did to it.   Well what Bioware did to this chocolate sundae was add a huge pile of dog poop to it.  Now you peope may think a chocolate sundae with a huge pile of dog poop on it is better or still appetizing, but you are definately wrong.

    image

    image
    --When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
    --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
    --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
    --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.

  • sungodrasungodra Member Posts: 1,376

    There is a hype machine so huge and spinning out of control on these forums, it is not even funny.  I think most of you know what I am talking about. If you are not a part of it...  Just look at the Hype meter and you can see what i mean... There is one game here that is untouchable to any scrutiny and if you try to say otherwise , or have another opinion you're labeled a troll. If you come over to SWTOR it is fine to spread your hate and your lies about the game, and that is acceptable on these forums.

    image


    "When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"

This discussion has been closed.