Most WoW players have never seen, let alone tried, a game like EQ or UO. Your personal view that EQ and UO weren't enjoyable is your personal opinion. If you actually played these games for any length of time, then I can respect your view. You do not however, speak for the millions of other MMO players that have never seen, let alone played, EQ or UO. For all you know, a good portion of them may have actually enjoyed those games as much, if not more so, than WoW. Sadly, they'll never get a chance to try a game with similar gameplay features, because the industry has tunnel vision because of WoW's freak success.
Yes, it is my personal opinion. I played UO for the beta. Horrible horrible game and i jumped ship the day EQ came out. EQ i played for a YEAR before i got really sick of the camping.
Most WoW players have never seen, let alone tried, a game like EQ or UO. Your personal view that EQ and UO weren't enjoyable is your personal opinion. If you actually played these games for any length of time, then I can respect your view. You do not however, speak for the millions of other MMO players that have never seen, let alone played, EQ or UO. For all you know, a good portion of them may have actually enjoyed those games as much, if not more so, than WoW. Sadly, they'll never get a chance to try a game with similar gameplay features, because the industry has tunnel vision because of WoW's freak success.
Yes, it is my personal opinion. I played UO for the beta. Horrible horrible game and i jumped ship the day EQ came out. EQ i played for a YEAR before i got really sick of the camping.
WOW is EQ with all its problem fixed.
Again, that's your personal opinion, and I have no qualms about you having it. BUt again, your opinion isn't necessarily that of the millions of other MMO players who have never played those games.
Realize as well, that when many of us "oldschool" gamers are asking for MMOs similar to the old ones back, we're not necessarily asking for the "grindy" or "ganking" back. I fully agree that some aspects just plain sucked in the older MMOs.
That said, the older MMOs also had countless features that were positive, that new MMOs simply lack. Character customization, player housing, meaningful player crafting, a halfway decent player economy, a non instance ridden game world, etc, etc. Now I realize not all of these things necessarily appeal to everyone, but that shouldn't discount them from being valid avenues within the game mechanics of an MMO. Just because I never liked arenas or much of PvP in WoW, isn't a reason for them to outright not exist in any format within the game, for example.
And as per your last point... the pendullum swings both ways. While WoW may have made game content more accessible to the masses, it's dumbed down the game in doing so, making it more shallow and unappealing to the core MMO gamers. It happens with pretty much anything. The more accesible (aka less complicated, aka easy) you make something, the more it appeals to the masses, however the less appealing it is to the more' hardcore' crowd.
That said, the older MMOs also had countless features that were positive, that new MMOs simply lack. Character customization, player housing, meaningful player crafting, a halfway decent player economy, a non instance ridden game world, etc, etc. Now I realize not all of these things necessarily appeal to everyone, but that shouldn't discount them from being valid avenues within the game mechanics of an MMO. Just because I never liked arenas or much of PvP in WoW, isn't a reason for them to outright not exist in any format within the game, for example.
And as per your last point... the pendullum swings both ways. While WoW may have made game content more accessible to the masses, it's dumbed down the game in doing so, making it more shallow and unappealing to the core MMO gamers. It happens with pretty much anything. The more accesible (aka less complicated, aka easy) you make something, the more it appeals to the masses, however the less appealing it is to the more' hardcore' crowd.
EQ does not have better char customization than WOW. EQ does not have player housing when i was playing. EQ does not have meaningful crafting. Economy was bad because there is no auction house and very inefficient to find a buyer/seller. Instances FIXED the horrible camping of EQ.
That said, the older MMOs also had countless features that were positive, that new MMOs simply lack. Character customization, player housing, meaningful player crafting, a halfway decent player economy, a non instance ridden game world, etc, etc. Now I realize not all of these things necessarily appeal to everyone, but that shouldn't discount them from being valid avenues within the game mechanics of an MMO. Just because I never liked arenas or much of PvP in WoW, isn't a reason for them to outright not exist in any format within the game, for example.
And as per your last point... the pendullum swings both ways. While WoW may have made game content more accessible to the masses, it's dumbed down the game in doing so, making it more shallow and unappealing to the core MMO gamers. It happens with pretty much anything. The more accesible (aka less complicated, aka easy) you make something, the more it appeals to the masses, however the less appealing it is to the more' hardcore' crowd.
EQ does not have better char customization than WOW. EQ does not have player housing when i was playing. EQ does not have meaningful crafting. Economy was bad because there is no auction house and very inefficient to find a buyer/seller. Instances FIXED the horrible camping of EQ.
WOW is 10x more appealing to me than EQ.
But UO did have those things, as did SWG.
You're selectively avoiding the fact that certain features across various old MMOs did add value to their respective games, and could also do so for new MMOs.
Oldschool MMOs were far from perfect, but the modern MMOs aren't any closer. Sure, new MMOs took a few core concepts from the old MMOs things and did them "Better"*, but they also dropped a significant amount of decent game features at the wayside for no good reason other than that the developers apparently couldn't be bothered to do the additional work.
*The "better" is still subjective, because many of the so called improvements were in some cases gross over simplifications.
That said, the older MMOs also had countless features that were positive, that new MMOs simply lack. Character customization, player housing, meaningful player crafting, a halfway decent player economy, a non instance ridden game world, etc, etc. Now I realize not all of these things necessarily appeal to everyone, but that shouldn't discount them from being valid avenues within the game mechanics of an MMO. Just because I never liked arenas or much of PvP in WoW, isn't a reason for them to outright not exist in any format within the game, for example.
And as per your last point... the pendullum swings both ways. While WoW may have made game content more accessible to the masses, it's dumbed down the game in doing so, making it more shallow and unappealing to the core MMO gamers. It happens with pretty much anything. The more accesible (aka less complicated, aka easy) you make something, the more it appeals to the masses, however the less appealing it is to the more' hardcore' crowd.
EQ does not have better char customization than WOW. EQ does not have player housing when i was playing. EQ does not have meaningful crafting. Economy was bad because there is no auction house and very inefficient to find a buyer/seller. Instances FIXED the horrible camping of EQ.
WOW is 10x more appealing to me than EQ.
It safe to say, that if you really played Everquest, then you wouldn't even bother refuteing a known fact about character customization. (ie: characer build & skills & AA's)
LOL... you quit Everquest because of Camping..? Played only 1 year..? Did you play after Kunark..? Why even "camp" things if you didn't like camping? Since it is a personal choice to "camp" something? So how did that upset you.. or was it that the game was too big, too dynamic that camps where all you dared to find?
East commons tunnel had anything and everything you ever needed. If you couldn't find that and buy or sell, then you truely need WoW and I won't argue that.
WoW appeals to you more than Everquest, because you like easy games. Matter of fact, in almost every thread you constantly quote people and not even truely argue their points, or rebuttal them.. your arguement is that you like WoW.. so in the end, your point is you like easy games.
So if you know this, why care about whats going on in the MMO space (MMORPG forums), or even bother to respond to those who openly admit, they want more than Candly land mechanics..?
You like toys, not puzzles.... we understand. So by your own admonishment, instant gratification, usurped adventure when WoW was released. Your proof to all those out there why World of Warcraft is still needed.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
It safe to say, that if you really played Everquest, then you wouldn't even bother refuteing a known fact about character customization. (ie: characer build & skills & AA's)
LOL... you quit Everquest because of Camping..? Played only 1 year..? Did you play after Kunark..? Why even "camp" things if you didn't like camping? Since it is a personal choice to "camp" something? So how did that upset you.. or was it that the game was too big, too dynamic that camps where all you dared to find?
East commons tunnel had anything and everything you ever needed. If you couldn't find that and buy or sell, then you truely need WoW and I won't argue that.
WoW appeals to you more than Everquest, because you like easy games. Matter of fact, in almost every thread you constantly quote people and not even truely argue their points, or rebuttal them.. your arguement is that you like WoW.. so in the end, your point is you like easy games.
So if you know this, why care about whats going on in the MMO space (MMORPG forums), or even bother to respond to those who openly admit, they want more than Candly land mechanics..?
You like toys, not puzzles.... we understand. So by your own admonishment, instant gratification, usurped adventure when WoW was released. Your proof to all those out there why World of Warcraft is still needed.
What is so difficult about camping a dungeon? It was boring and not challenging at all. The WOW Loken fight, in fresh 80 blues was a lot more challenging than camping in Lower Guk. And you don't get good gear if you don't camp dungeons in EQ.
Grind/camping != challenging
I like games that i actually can PLAY instead of waiting, waiting and waiting.
Spending hours in East Common tunnel looking for a buyer/seller is just not fun .. much better to put things on a AH.
It safe to say, that if you really played Everquest, then you wouldn't even bother refuteing a known fact about character customization. (ie: characer build & skills & AA's)
LOL... you quit Everquest because of Camping..? Played only 1 year..? Did you play after Kunark..? Why even "camp" things if you didn't like camping? Since it is a personal choice to "camp" something? So how did that upset you.. or was it that the game was too big, too dynamic that camps where all you dared to find?
East commons tunnel had anything and everything you ever needed. If you couldn't find that and buy or sell, then you truely need WoW and I won't argue that.
WoW appeals to you more than Everquest, because you like easy games. Matter of fact, in almost every thread you constantly quote people and not even truely argue their points, or rebuttal them.. your arguement is that you like WoW.. so in the end, your point is you like easy games.
So if you know this, why care about whats going on in the MMO space (MMORPG forums), or even bother to respond to those who openly admit, they want more than Candly land mechanics..?
You like toys, not puzzles.... we understand. So by your own admonishment, instant gratification, usurped adventure when WoW was released. Your proof to all those out there why World of Warcraft is still needed.
What is so difficult about camping a dungeon? It was boring and not challenging at all. The WOW Loken fight, in fresh 80 blues was a lot more challenging than camping in Lower Guk. And you don't get good gear if you don't camp dungeons in EQ.
Grind/camping != challenging
I like games that i actually can PLAY instead of waiting, waiting and waiting.
Spending hours in East Common tunnel looking for a buyer/seller is just not fun .. much better to put things on a AH.
The first time you do the fight it's challenging.
The 5th, 10th, 20th, 30th, 40th, etc, times, it's not.
How is WoW any less of a time sink with regards to repetative and boring grinding?
When people have to grow up and get jobs! We don't have the time we used to when we were younger to waste on adventure. It's a annoying fact of modern day living. Sitting around for hours waiting for a computer generated item was fine years ago but now a days we can't afford to do that anymore. People have house payments, car payments, insurence, children and so on to pay for and spend time with. Deal with it.
When people have to grow up and get jobs! We don't have the time we used to when we were younger to waste on adventure. It's a annoying fact of modern day living. Sitting around for hours waiting for a computer generated item was fine years ago but now a days we can't afford to do that anymore. People have house payments, car payments, insurence, children and so on to pay for and spend time with. Deal with it.
... and yet they have money to spend on virtual items?
It safe to say, that if you really played Everquest, then you wouldn't even bother refuteing a known fact about character customization. (ie: characer build & skills & AA's)
LOL... you quit Everquest because of Camping..? Played only 1 year..? Did you play after Kunark..? Why even "camp" things if you didn't like camping? Since it is a personal choice to "camp" something? So how did that upset you.. or was it that the game was too big, too dynamic that camps where all you dared to find?
East commons tunnel had anything and everything you ever needed. If you couldn't find that and buy or sell, then you truely need WoW and I won't argue that.
WoW appeals to you more than Everquest, because you like easy games. Matter of fact, in almost every thread you constantly quote people and not even truely argue their points, or rebuttal them.. your arguement is that you like WoW.. so in the end, your point is you like easy games.
So if you know this, why care about whats going on in the MMO space (MMORPG forums), or even bother to respond to those who openly admit, they want more than Candly land mechanics..?
You like toys, not puzzles.... we understand. So by your own admonishment, instant gratification, usurped adventure when WoW was released. Your proof to all those out there why World of Warcraft is still needed.
What is so difficult about camping a dungeon? It was boring and not challenging at all. The WOW Loken fight, in fresh 80 blues was a lot more challenging than camping in Lower Guk. And you don't get good gear if you don't camp dungeons in EQ.
Grind/camping != challenging
I like games that i actually can PLAY instead of waiting, waiting and waiting.
Spending hours in East Common tunnel looking for a buyer/seller is just not fun .. much better to put things on a AH.
The first time you do the fight it's challenging.
The 5th, 10th, 20th, 30th, 40th, etc, times, it's not.
How is WoW any less of a time sink with regards to repetative and boring grinding?
The same can be said for EQ. In fact, EQ is worse because you can't even "play the encounter" the first time because of camping.
At least you get to fight in wow. Waiting around doing nothing <<<<<<< fighting.
combat and gear centric mmos these days. its like 90% combat 10% exploration/community/tradeskills. needs to be balanced equally or else your game will seem shallow.
... EQ is worse because you can't even "play the encounter" the first time because of camping.
At least you get to fight in wow. Waiting around doing nothing <<<<<<< fighting.
Combat and item upgrades were not the main focus of EQ like they are in WoW.
Community >>>>>>> Combat.
COMBAT and ITEMS UPGRADES were not main focus of EQ?? hahahahhahah
How come people are camping dungeon bosses? For the fun of not doing anything? Of course it is for the items. And how come you fight fight fight (unless during down-time doing nothing) in EQ?
When people have to grow up and get jobs! We don't have the time we used to when we were younger to waste on adventure. It's a annoying fact of modern day living. Sitting around for hours waiting for a computer generated item was fine years ago but now a days we can't afford to do that anymore. People have house payments, car payments, insurence, children and so on to pay for and spend time with. Deal with it.
Real life trumps leisure time, that is the painful truth about growing up. However your solution to this problem is to actually opt out of HAVING leisure time. Even if it means paying out some of your aforementioned hard earned money to do so.
If you find your life too busy for something like an online game, I find it very silly, by your own logic, that you could somehow find enjoyment from paying for an online game, not really playing it, and then paying again for some frivolous item that as you said you did not have time to waste obtaining by playing said online game in the first place.
Think about it. Your solution to the problem of being too busy to play a video game is to actually pay the games developer MORE money to PLAY IT LESS!!
Frankly all your response has shown me is that YOU, and probably quite a few other people, really need to find a new hobby. Deal with THAT.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
It safe to say, that if you really played Everquest, then you wouldn't even bother refuteing a known fact about character customization. (ie: characer build & skills & AA's)
LOL... you quit Everquest because of Camping..? Played only 1 year..? Did you play after Kunark..? Why even "camp" things if you didn't like camping? Since it is a personal choice to "camp" something? So how did that upset you.. or was it that the game was too big, too dynamic that camps where all you dared to find?
East commons tunnel had anything and everything you ever needed. If you couldn't find that and buy or sell, then you truely need WoW and I won't argue that.
WoW appeals to you more than Everquest, because you like easy games. Matter of fact, in almost every thread you constantly quote people and not even truely argue their points, or rebuttal them.. your arguement is that you like WoW.. so in the end, your point is you like easy games.
So if you know this, why care about whats going on in the MMO space (MMORPG forums), or even bother to respond to those who openly admit, they want more than Candly land mechanics..?
You like toys, not puzzles.... we understand. So by your own admonishment, instant gratification, usurped adventure when WoW was released. Your proof to all those out there why World of Warcraft is still needed.
What is so difficult about camping a dungeon? It was boring and not challenging at all. The WOW Loken fight, in fresh 80 blues was a lot more challenging than camping in Lower Guk. And you don't get good gear if you don't camp dungeons in EQ.
Grind/camping != challenging
I like games that i actually can PLAY instead of waiting, waiting and waiting.
Spending hours in East Common tunnel looking for a buyer/seller is just not fun .. much better to put things on a AH.
The first time you do the fight it's challenging.
The 5th, 10th, 20th, 30th, 40th, etc, times, it's not.
How is WoW any less of a time sink with regards to repetative and boring grinding?
The same can be said for EQ. In fact, EQ is worse because you can't even "play the encounter" the first time because of camping.
At least you get to fight in wow. Waiting around doing nothing <<<<<<< fighting.
Right, because wow has done it so much better. You click a button, select Tank, Healer, or DPS and ......... WAIT ....... at many levels, WAIT some more.
Or Battlegrounds, click a button, choose your BGs and ........... WAIT .......... if you are not high level, ........WAIT for a long damn time.
Or Arena, try to find an arena partner .............................................................................................................. need I say more?
Now I'm not saying the old school MMOs were any better. I'm just disagreeing with you that wow's idea is any better, any less of a pointless waste of time, or most importantly, any more fun.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
It safe to say, that if you really played Everquest, then you wouldn't even bother refuteing a known fact about character customization. (ie: characer build & skills & AA's)
LOL... you quit Everquest because of Camping..? Played only 1 year..? Did you play after Kunark..? Why even "camp" things if you didn't like camping? Since it is a personal choice to "camp" something? So how did that upset you.. or was it that the game was too big, too dynamic that camps where all you dared to find?
East commons tunnel had anything and everything you ever needed. If you couldn't find that and buy or sell, then you truely need WoW and I won't argue that.
WoW appeals to you more than Everquest, because you like easy games. Matter of fact, in almost every thread you constantly quote people and not even truely argue their points, or rebuttal them.. your arguement is that you like WoW.. so in the end, your point is you like easy games.
So if you know this, why care about whats going on in the MMO space (MMORPG forums), or even bother to respond to those who openly admit, they want more than Candly land mechanics..?
You like toys, not puzzles.... we understand. So by your own admonishment, instant gratification, usurped adventure when WoW was released. Your proof to all those out there why World of Warcraft is still needed.
What is so difficult about camping a dungeon? It was boring and not challenging at all. The WOW Loken fight, in fresh 80 blues was a lot more challenging than camping in Lower Guk. And you don't get good gear if you don't camp dungeons in EQ.
Grind/camping != challenging
I like games that i actually can PLAY instead of waiting, waiting and waiting.
Spending hours in East Common tunnel looking for a buyer/seller is just not fun .. much better to put things on a AH.
The first time you do the fight it's challenging.
The 5th, 10th, 20th, 30th, 40th, etc, times, it's not.
How is WoW any less of a time sink with regards to repetative and boring grinding?
The same can be said for EQ. In fact, EQ is worse because you can't even "play the encounter" the first time because of camping.
At least you get to fight in wow. Waiting around doing nothing <<<<<<< fighting.
Right, because wow has done it so much better. You click a button, select Tank, Healer, or DPS and ......... WAIT ....... at many levels, WAIT some more.
Or Battlegrounds, click a button, choose your BGs and ........... WAIT .......... if you are not high level, ........WAIT for a long damn time.
Or Arena, try to find an arena partner .............................................................................................................. need I say more?
Now I'm not saying the old school MMOs were any better. I'm just disagreeing with you that wow's idea is any better, any less of a pointless waste of time, or most importantly, any more fun.
WoW feels like you can "beat the game" entirely too quickly...especially in Naxx, ToC, and ICC eras of this expansion. I raid one day a week and have no real purpose after that. In EQ we had AAXP post luclin to keep us busy, but even when we had our AA capped each expansion, other players always needed our help. PLing and twinking just seem utterly gone from all new mmo's...the ability to actually help other players (primarily because they don't need it :P). So I'm left with pvp, which was never really my thing
... EQ is worse because you can't even "play the encounter" the first time because of camping.
At least you get to fight in wow. Waiting around doing nothing <<<<<<< fighting.
Combat and item upgrades were not the main focus of EQ like they are in WoW.
Community >>>>>>> Combat.
COMBAT and ITEMS UPGRADES were not main focus of EQ?? hahahahhahah
How come people are camping dungeon bosses? For the fun of not doing anything? Of course it is for the items. And how come you fight fight fight (unless during down-time doing nothing) in EQ?
They were a large focus of the game, moreso toward the launch of WoW. But the main focus was on the other players around you, for the good majority of players, in my opinion. That did change though, and then changed even more once WoW was released and the developers scurried to compete. Did you even play the game prior to the Shadows of Luclin expansion? Player's did camp mobs for loot, but the loot was't usually the driving force since only one person would usually get a drop after hours of camping the same spot. Usually players were just there helping someone else get loot, or grinding XP.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I suppose it comes down to the fact that I don't have the time. I make it, just like I make time for everything else that is important to me. What I rarely ever do, however is waste time...on anything.
This. Saying you don't have the time to play isn't a good excuse to make the game quicker and easier. If you don't have the time, make time. Or play something else. MMORPG's weren't really meant to be played in short bursts like most games are. They are meant to be slowly consumed and enjoyed. You are supposed to enjoy the journey to the top, not rush to the end game only to be bored to death and wonder why there isn't much to do.
I suppose it comes down to the fact that I don't have the time. I make it, just like I make time for everything else that is important to me. What I rarely ever do, however is waste time...on anything.
This. Saying you don't have the time to play isn't a good excuse to make the game quicker and easier. If you don't have the time, make time. Or play something else. MMORPG's weren't really meant to be played in short bursts like most games are. They are meant to be slowly consumed and enjoyed. You are supposed to enjoy the journey to the top, not rush to the end game only to be bored to death and wonder why there isn't much to do.
Yeah, the 'I don't have time' argument does not really address the real issues why the 'old school' way of doing MMORPGs fell out of favour.
As Lonestryder said, if something is worthwhile you will make the time to enjoy it to the fullest. The key thing is determining which game elements are worthwhile enough to make time for. Just as I do not make time in my TV viewing schedule for soaps, gameshows and reality tv, I do not judge most of the 'old school' mechanics to be wrothwhile and thus will not make time for them. They do not immerse me or create a sense of adventure so any game that relies on them will not get my money.
I suppose it comes down to the fact that I don't have the time. I make it, just like I make time for everything else that is important to me. What I rarely ever do, however is waste time...on anything.
This. Saying you don't have the time to play isn't a good excuse to make the game quicker and easier. If you don't have the time, make time. Or play something else. MMORPG's weren't really meant to be played in short bursts like most games are. They are meant to be slowly consumed and enjoyed. You are supposed to enjoy the journey to the top, not rush to the end game only to be bored to death and wonder why there isn't much to do.
Yeah, the 'I don't have time' argument does not really address the real issues why the 'old school' way of doing MMORPGs fell out of favour.
As Lonestryder said, if something is worthwhile you will make the time to enjoy it to the fullest. The key thing is determining which game elements are worthwhile enough to make time for. Just as I do not make time in my TV viewing schedule for soaps, gameshows and reality tv, I do not judge most of the 'old school' mechanics to be wrothwhile and thus will not make time for them. They do not immerse me or create a sense of adventure so any game that relies on them will not get my money.
I cut TV out of my free time to play MMO's so could other people really nothing worth watching on tv anymore anyway, people can make time but when people feel they have to watch tv its the same thing sitting on ur duff doing nothing , instead of letting your brain rot away , go to your PC and play a MMO , if people can't make time for MMO's then they should stop playing them and settle for a regular multiplayer co-op game or a single player game both don't cost a monthly sub and you can play at your leisure , all the trimming down and making MMO's easier for people that play for 1-3 hrs a weak is hurting MMO's and its been showing for the last 3 yrs. Be part of the soultion not part of the problem.
Comments
Yes, it is my personal opinion. I played UO for the beta. Horrible horrible game and i jumped ship the day EQ came out. EQ i played for a YEAR before i got really sick of the camping.
WOW is EQ with all its problem fixed.
It would be statistically accurate to say at least 75% of WoW's playerbase had never even tried UO.
Again, that's your personal opinion, and I have no qualms about you having it. BUt again, your opinion isn't necessarily that of the millions of other MMO players who have never played those games.
Realize as well, that when many of us "oldschool" gamers are asking for MMOs similar to the old ones back, we're not necessarily asking for the "grindy" or "ganking" back. I fully agree that some aspects just plain sucked in the older MMOs.
That said, the older MMOs also had countless features that were positive, that new MMOs simply lack. Character customization, player housing, meaningful player crafting, a halfway decent player economy, a non instance ridden game world, etc, etc. Now I realize not all of these things necessarily appeal to everyone, but that shouldn't discount them from being valid avenues within the game mechanics of an MMO. Just because I never liked arenas or much of PvP in WoW, isn't a reason for them to outright not exist in any format within the game, for example.
And as per your last point... the pendullum swings both ways. While WoW may have made game content more accessible to the masses, it's dumbed down the game in doing so, making it more shallow and unappealing to the core MMO gamers. It happens with pretty much anything. The more accesible (aka less complicated, aka easy) you make something, the more it appeals to the masses, however the less appealing it is to the more' hardcore' crowd.
EQ does not have better char customization than WOW. EQ does not have player housing when i was playing. EQ does not have meaningful crafting. Economy was bad because there is no auction house and very inefficient to find a buyer/seller. Instances FIXED the horrible camping of EQ.
WOW is 10x more appealing to me than EQ.
But UO did have those things, as did SWG.
You're selectively avoiding the fact that certain features across various old MMOs did add value to their respective games, and could also do so for new MMOs.
Oldschool MMOs were far from perfect, but the modern MMOs aren't any closer. Sure, new MMOs took a few core concepts from the old MMOs things and did them "Better"*, but they also dropped a significant amount of decent game features at the wayside for no good reason other than that the developers apparently couldn't be bothered to do the additional work.
*The "better" is still subjective, because many of the so called improvements were in some cases gross over simplifications.
I'm pretty sure that THIS:
Had something to do with it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It safe to say, that if you really played Everquest, then you wouldn't even bother refuteing a known fact about character customization. (ie: characer build & skills & AA's)
LOL... you quit Everquest because of Camping..? Played only 1 year..? Did you play after Kunark..? Why even "camp" things if you didn't like camping? Since it is a personal choice to "camp" something? So how did that upset you.. or was it that the game was too big, too dynamic that camps where all you dared to find?
East commons tunnel had anything and everything you ever needed. If you couldn't find that and buy or sell, then you truely need WoW and I won't argue that.
WoW appeals to you more than Everquest, because you like easy games. Matter of fact, in almost every thread you constantly quote people and not even truely argue their points, or rebuttal them.. your arguement is that you like WoW.. so in the end, your point is you like easy games.
So if you know this, why care about whats going on in the MMO space (MMORPG forums), or even bother to respond to those who openly admit, they want more than Candly land mechanics..?
You like toys, not puzzles.... we understand. So by your own admonishment, instant gratification, usurped adventure when WoW was released. Your proof to all those out there why World of Warcraft is still needed.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Made my day!
What is so difficult about camping a dungeon? It was boring and not challenging at all. The WOW Loken fight, in fresh 80 blues was a lot more challenging than camping in Lower Guk. And you don't get good gear if you don't camp dungeons in EQ.
Grind/camping != challenging
I like games that i actually can PLAY instead of waiting, waiting and waiting.
Spending hours in East Common tunnel looking for a buyer/seller is just not fun .. much better to put things on a AH.
The first time you do the fight it's challenging.
The 5th, 10th, 20th, 30th, 40th, etc, times, it's not.
How is WoW any less of a time sink with regards to repetative and boring grinding?
When did instant gratification usurp adventure?
When people have to grow up and get jobs! We don't have the time we used to when we were younger to waste on adventure. It's a annoying fact of modern day living. Sitting around for hours waiting for a computer generated item was fine years ago but now a days we can't afford to do that anymore. People have house payments, car payments, insurence, children and so on to pay for and spend time with. Deal with it.
... and yet they have money to spend on virtual items?
The same can be said for EQ. In fact, EQ is worse because you can't even "play the encounter" the first time because of camping.
At least you get to fight in wow. Waiting around doing nothing <<<<<<< fighting.
Combat and item upgrades were not the main focus of EQ like they are in WoW.
Community >>>>>>> Combat.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
combat and gear centric mmos these days. its like 90% combat 10% exploration/community/tradeskills. needs to be balanced equally or else your game will seem shallow.
COMBAT and ITEMS UPGRADES were not main focus of EQ?? hahahahhahah
How come people are camping dungeon bosses? For the fun of not doing anything? Of course it is for the items. And how come you fight fight fight (unless during down-time doing nothing) in EQ?
Real life trumps leisure time, that is the painful truth about growing up. However your solution to this problem is to actually opt out of HAVING leisure time. Even if it means paying out some of your aforementioned hard earned money to do so.
If you find your life too busy for something like an online game, I find it very silly, by your own logic, that you could somehow find enjoyment from paying for an online game, not really playing it, and then paying again for some frivolous item that as you said you did not have time to waste obtaining by playing said online game in the first place.
Think about it. Your solution to the problem of being too busy to play a video game is to actually pay the games developer MORE money to PLAY IT LESS!!
Frankly all your response has shown me is that YOU, and probably quite a few other people, really need to find a new hobby. Deal with THAT.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
Right, because wow has done it so much better. You click a button, select Tank, Healer, or DPS and ......... WAIT ....... at many levels, WAIT some more.
Or Battlegrounds, click a button, choose your BGs and ........... WAIT .......... if you are not high level, ........WAIT for a long damn time.
Or Arena, try to find an arena partner .............................................................................................................. need I say more?
Now I'm not saying the old school MMOs were any better. I'm just disagreeing with you that wow's idea is any better, any less of a pointless waste of time, or most importantly, any more fun.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
Roll a tank... insta queue times
WoW feels like you can "beat the game" entirely too quickly...especially in Naxx, ToC, and ICC eras of this expansion. I raid one day a week and have no real purpose after that. In EQ we had AAXP post luclin to keep us busy, but even when we had our AA capped each expansion, other players always needed our help. PLing and twinking just seem utterly gone from all new mmo's...the ability to actually help other players (primarily because they don't need it :P). So I'm left with pvp, which was never really my thing
They were a large focus of the game, moreso toward the launch of WoW. But the main focus was on the other players around you, for the good majority of players, in my opinion. That did change though, and then changed even more once WoW was released and the developers scurried to compete. Did you even play the game prior to the Shadows of Luclin expansion? Player's did camp mobs for loot, but the loot was't usually the driving force since only one person would usually get a drop after hours of camping the same spot. Usually players were just there helping someone else get loot, or grinding XP.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
This. Saying you don't have the time to play isn't a good excuse to make the game quicker and easier. If you don't have the time, make time. Or play something else. MMORPG's weren't really meant to be played in short bursts like most games are. They are meant to be slowly consumed and enjoyed. You are supposed to enjoy the journey to the top, not rush to the end game only to be bored to death and wonder why there isn't much to do.
Yeah, the 'I don't have time' argument does not really address the real issues why the 'old school' way of doing MMORPGs fell out of favour.
As Lonestryder said, if something is worthwhile you will make the time to enjoy it to the fullest. The key thing is determining which game elements are worthwhile enough to make time for. Just as I do not make time in my TV viewing schedule for soaps, gameshows and reality tv, I do not judge most of the 'old school' mechanics to be wrothwhile and thus will not make time for them. They do not immerse me or create a sense of adventure so any game that relies on them will not get my money.
I cut TV out of my free time to play MMO's so could other people really nothing worth watching on tv anymore anyway, people can make time but when people feel they have to watch tv its the same thing sitting on ur duff doing nothing , instead of letting your brain rot away , go to your PC and play a MMO , if people can't make time for MMO's then they should stop playing them and settle for a regular multiplayer co-op game or a single player game both don't cost a monthly sub and you can play at your leisure , all the trimming down and making MMO's easier for people that play for 1-3 hrs a weak is hurting MMO's and its been showing for the last 3 yrs. Be part of the soultion not part of the problem.