Amen Brother. The guy that took your place on the circuit is a loon. Thank God you're back so sister Abigale will stop trying to be a preacher when she doesn't even do the neighborhood gossip thing right.
translation: I am so glad somebody else is as upset about all this as I am. Thank you very much.
To the guy that thinks old school MMOs were "Tedious"... and others that agree...
You shouldn't have been playing them in the first place. They were not your "cup of tea", that's quite obvious. I sucked at the old school MMOs and even I loved it. Not sure why you never enjoyed them to be honest, other than old school MMOs just were not your thing.
It's nothing personal, it's kind of like Me not understanding why People want to live in Condominiums. My Son and and his wife live in one, crammed along with their neighbors like sardine's into narrow cramped homes, paying not only a mortgage but also a condo maintenance fee... I just don't "get it". My Son and his wife, along with their neighbors love it though. They keep trying to get me and my Wife to buy one.
Am I going to buy one and move in? No, that's silly.... because I don't appreciate "Condominium Living" the way my Son does.
Am I going to demand that Architects changes Condos into a style and layout of housing that I appreciate? No, that would be rude and wrong. Why should deprive my Sone and my Daughter-in-Law of a housing style they love just to fit my tastes? There are other styles of Housing I do appreciate and can live in without asking that Condo's be changed.
You see, that is what you and others have done... you didn't "get" the old school MMOs and over time you voiced your opinions that they needed to be changed... in reality it was you and others that should have found a different form of entertainment and left the old school MMOs stay as they were for those of us that did appreciate them. Sure the Accountants and Marketing Execs had a hand in all this, but for right now my comments are for the Players that strove to change MMO gaming from what it was into what it now is.
The old school MMOs weren't tedious and/or designed wrongly because for the rest of us we were having fun while we killed X of Y and time just flew by. We all became friends and it didn't matter that almost none of us had never met anyone else in RL. We played hard together, that's what mattered. Damn those times were a blast, and you missed it because you never "got it" in the first place. I wish you had figured it out and appreciated it. It is also unfortunate that you were not the only one that never "got it" since others say the same as you do. Just because you and others think the old school MMOs were "broke" doesn't mean they really were.... you and others just never appreciated them for what they were.
It's all gone now... the "magic" of the old school MMO era, that's the real shame of it all.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Think I'm crazy? Then take a good look at the current state of MMOs. Wow can be played by just sitting on your ass in a tavern and never leaving town.
.
No, I just think you're wrong.
.
Fun replaced tedium. If you're a fan of tedium, I can see why you're upset.
Considering all the posters previous to you seem to agree with me, it seems that tedium as you call it, must have quite a following.
1) There were 11 posters up to that point, 12 counting yourself. With those numbers, that's a "following" that I think game developers will tend to overlook.
2) You admitted it is a tedium.
1) You clearly understand nothing about statistics and demographics.
2) Reading comprehension for the win. I said tedium as HE calls it. HIS opinion, not mine.
So do you have anything relevant to add to the conversation or do you and uquipu just enjoy trolling threads where the posters don't slavishly kiss the current version of Wow's sacred buttocks?
Uh oh. You poked a stick into the eye of the WOW faithful, now your in for it
LOL. Funnily enough I was one of the Wow faithful up until WOTLK. Went from DAOC to Shadowbane to SWG to Wow.
I wasn't incredibly thrilled with about half of what The Burning Crusade added to the game, and when WOTLK added the complete easy mode Death Knight class I felt the game had finally jumped the proverbial shark.
I have no problems with people still enjoying Wow when I don't. I do however take offense when they come into threads and instead of posting arguments on why their opinion differs from mine, and actually backing it up with some kind of logic, they instead just spend their entire time condescendingly telling me that my opinion is wrong without trying to justify what they are saying in any way.
I'd like to thank all the posters who gave me a thumbs up for the post. I've been lurking on this site since before LOTRO launched. I finally decided to jump in and get my feet wet. I'm tickled to death my first original thread has met with so much success.
It is a very good post and I think it pretty much covers how many of us feel. I too played WOW for a couple of years but after 1-60 the game lost interest for me.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
What bothers me is why some people can't understand that some of us LIKED the way MMO's were before buying your way became popular.
I liked the idea that if you died you paid a penalty, I liked it when people would group, I liked the idea that you felt you earned something.
I remember when I finally reached level 20 in EQ and I got to pick a last name for my character. A great feeling that I had earned something and had fun doing it.
It really is getting out of control anymore. The thing that mainly bothers me about this whole instant gratification mentality is the adverse effect it has made on the mmo community as a whole.
People unwilling to help new players
Scoffing at people geared lower or maybe not at the same skill level as themselves
Wanting to finish a dungeon as fast as possible skipping as much as possible
Doing everything possible to avoid grouping as much as possible
etc.
The list goes on and on. It used to be such a close knit community. Not that there weren't ever drama queens or harassers but damn...
...times have changed I suppose
Nah .. camping & loot drama was WORSE in EQ because loot is so hard to come by.
And you said the magic word ... "WANTING" to finish a dungeon as fast as possible ...
if that is why players want, and what they find fun, what is wrong with it?
I gather that you don't like it ... there are always some fringe players that will go thru a dungeon slowly with you. You can always play with them. It is erroneous to think that you need to be thinking like every player out there to have fun in a MMO.
When people stoped playing with friends and chose partners because of their skill or what they could get out of it.
When MMO's stoped being about us and started being about me.
It is soley on our shoulders, the MMO community.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
It really is getting out of control anymore. The thing that mainly bothers me about this whole instant gratification mentality is the adverse effect it has made on the mmo community as a whole.
People unwilling to help new players
Scoffing at people geared lower or maybe not at the same skill level as themselves
Wanting to finish a dungeon as fast as possible skipping as much as possible
Doing everything possible to avoid grouping as much as possible
etc.
The list goes on and on. It used to be such a close knit community. Not that there weren't ever drama queens or harassers but damn...
...times have changed I suppose
Nah .. camping & loot drama was WORSE in EQ because loot is so hard to come by.
And you said the magic word ... "WANTING" to finish a dungeon as fast as possible ...
if that is why players want, and what they find fun, what is wrong with it?
I gather that you don't like it ... there are always some fringe players that will go thru a dungeon slowly with you. You can always play with them. It is erroneous to think that you need to be thinking like every player out there to have fun in a MMO.
Wouldn't it also be erroneous to think that, just because that's all there is to do in current dungeons, that that's what half the players actually want? And wouldn't be equally erroneous to think that this is a fringe element, and nothing more?
"Wanting" can be for many reasons. It could be because that's the one goal. It could be because the person in question is playing the only game in town, and rushing for levels. It could be because there's nothing else of interest there.
In UO I met just as many jerks who didn't want to help new players as there are in WoW, FFXI, DAoC, or EQ. People in all of those games can be VERY elitist, WoW did not create the mentality, it predates MMOs, its human nature.
That mentality has not grow or shrunk, its stayed the same, you find nice people and you find mean people, they exsist and I'm sorry you can't change that.
The only thing you can effect is your reaction.
Be the change you want in the world, help new players, spread community love. You wouldn't be alone.
In UO I met just as many jerks who didn't want to help new players as there are in WoW, FFXI, DAoC, or EQ. People in all of those games can be VERY elitist, WoW did not create the mentality, it predates MMOs, its human nature.
That mentality has not grow or shrunk, its stayed the same, you find nice people and you find mean people, they exsist and I'm sorry you can't change that.
The only thing you can effect is your reaction.
Be the change you want in the world, help new players, spread community love. You wouldn't be alone.
Well, you're right in as far as you go. It seems to me, from my perspective, that UO had just as many jerks, but many more helpful players. The reason was that in the sandbox style of UO, players were not only recruiting, but trying to keep those they did recruit. I met quite a few very nice people in WoW who asked me to understand when they booted me from their group because someone better suited came along. I mean, they were really nice about it, but I was still left out, because of the game design. That never happened to me in UO.
I don't think gaming has changed as much as people lead it to be. What has happened is that there are now MORE options as far as progressing in our games. Some are indeed faster then others (dungeon crawling vs open world leveling). The problem is that people choose to pick the fastest path regardless if they find it fun or not.
There is still A LOT of fun to be had within World of Warcraft and a lot of adventure out there. But its not going to find you unless you take the time to go out and look for it.
Sadly people tend to look at the fastest path and then just take that over everything else. A game (regardless how its designed or made) is only going to be as much fun as you make it. A developer can give you loads of options to pick from but its your choice to make use of the options you find fun. They can't force everyone to go out and adventure because lets be honest.. not everyone enjoys going out adventureing. Some people like to pvp, some like to pve, some like to dungeon crawl, some like to just grind on mobs, some like to roleplay.. see my point?
In UO I met just as many jerks who didn't want to help new players as there are in WoW, FFXI, DAoC, or EQ. People in all of those games can be VERY elitist, WoW did not create the mentality, it predates MMOs, its human nature.
That mentality has not grow or shrunk, its stayed the same, you find nice people and you find mean people, they exsist and I'm sorry you can't change that.
The only thing you can effect is your reaction.
Be the change you want in the world, help new players, spread community love. You wouldn't be alone.
Well, you're right in as far as you go. It seems to me, from my perspective, that UO had just as many jerks, but many more helpful players. The reason was that in the sandbox style of UO, players were not only recruiting, but trying to keep those they did recruit. I met quite a few very nice people in WoW who asked me to understand when they booted me from their group because someone better suited came along. I mean, they were really nice about it, but I was still left out, because of the game design. That never happened to me in UO.
I was ganked a whole lot more in UO than I ever have been on a PVP WoW server. Infact often I get entirely left alone by the other side, while I remember in UO that Red Vs Blue mentality was pretty big.
In UO I met just as many jerks who didn't want to help new players as there are in WoW, FFXI, DAoC, or EQ. People in all of those games can be VERY elitist, WoW did not create the mentality, it predates MMOs, its human nature.
That mentality has not grow or shrunk, its stayed the same, you find nice people and you find mean people, they exsist and I'm sorry you can't change that.
The only thing you can effect is your reaction.
Be the change you want in the world, help new players, spread community love. You wouldn't be alone.
Well, you're right in as far as you go. It seems to me, from my perspective, that UO had just as many jerks, but many more helpful players. The reason was that in the sandbox style of UO, players were not only recruiting, but trying to keep those they did recruit. I met quite a few very nice people in WoW who asked me to understand when they booted me from their group because someone better suited came along. I mean, they were really nice about it, but I was still left out, because of the game design. That never happened to me in UO.
I was ganked a whole lot more in UO than I ever have been on a PVP WoW server. Infact often I get entirely left alone by the other side, while I remember in UO that Red Vs Blue mentality was pretty big.
Yeah, I remember. I have a very bad taste in my mouth about PKers and what they do to a game. But that's a different story altogether.
What exactly are you all complaining about? Is it the cash shop model of payment or is it the idea that MMO's have become easier to solo or there isn't much if any death penalty or some other missing fondly remembered mechanic?
What happened to old school MMO's is simple we happened to them. Thats right you and I.
When I look at why people left certain old school games that still exist by the way I see 1 common denominator.
The people who used to play UO left with the introdution of Trammel. Trammel happened because while people enjoyed the game they got fed up with the general Asshattery of the griefers and exploiters and the general responce from the community was QQ more or STFU and get out.
Those who played DAOC left with the introduction of ToA which came about from ex Everquest players wanting more end game raids and epic loots that could be I win crutches in the original RvR end game.
Those who left Everquest left because of the rare spawn camps the wierd timers the size of the raids needed to take down quite a few of the raid level bosses.
People left SWG because it was a bug filled crud hole of a game and those who stayed through that ran into the NGE that "WOWified" the game without warning while still being a bug filled crud hole.
People won't go back to these games because while the mechanics are still all there (apart from SWG) they are quite dated graphicly and most cases the real reason people left evan though they enjoyed certain mechanics (those being certain class imbalances or unfixed bugs that now seem to grate on the nerve of evan the most old school of players) still exist in all there old school glory.
The other thing we did in these games was while we were all nice and mature and responsible in our own little circle of friends to those outside our clique we were elitist, unfriendly, uncaring asshats who would fly into a nerd rage at the slightest provication.
So what happened to all these old games is basicly us. While we enjoyed certain aspects of the genre we made it hard to impossible for those newer to the game to get into it and see what we enjoyed so much about it all. The new guard have taken over and they were raised on a different set of values to most of us old school players. Weather or not thats a good thing or a bad thing is really yet to be determined though at the momment if your old school you don't have many if any options left.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
The words and poster names may change but the whines remain the same.
That aimed at me or at the most recent posters? Either way, from your previous posts I've read on this site, I expect far better quality dialog than this pointless troll-fest.
If you have some actual intelligent input on the subject, even if it is at complete odds with my opinions, I welcome it. If however, this post is the best you can do, why don't you do everyone a favor and just STFU.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
What exactly are you all complaining about? Is it the cash shop model of payment or is it the idea that MMO's have become easier to solo or there isn't much if any death penalty or some other missing fondly remembered mechanic?
What happened to old school MMO's is simple we happened to them. Thats right you and I.
When I look at why people left certain old school games that still exist by the way I see 1 common denominator.
The people who used to play UO left with the introdution of Trammel. Trammel happened because while people enjoyed the game they got fed up with the general Asshattery of the griefers and exploiters and the general responce from the community was QQ more or STFU and get out.
Those who played DAOC left with the introduction of ToA which came about from ex Everquest players wanting more end game raids and epic loots that could be I win crutches in the original RvR end game.
Those who left Everquest left because of the rare spawn camps the wierd timers the size of the raids needed to take down quite a few of the raid level bosses.
People left SWG because it was a bug filled crud hole of a game and those who stayed through that ran into the NGE that "WOWified" the game without warning while still being a bug filled crud hole.
People won't go back to these games because while the mechanics are still all there (apart from SWG) they are quite dated graphicly and most cases the real reason people left evan though they enjoyed certain mechanics (those being certain class imbalances or unfixed bugs that now seem to grate on the nerve of evan the most old school of players) still exist in all there old school glory.
The other thing we did in these games was while we were all nice and mature and responsible in our own little circle of friends to those outside our clique we were elitist, unfriendly, uncaring asshats who would fly into a nerd rage at the slightest provication.
So what happened to all these old games is basicly us. While we enjoyed certain aspects of the genre we made it hard to impossible for those newer to the game to get into it and see what we enjoyed so much about it all. The new guard have taken over and they were raised on a different set of values to most of us old school players. Weather or not thats a good thing or a bad thing is really yet to be determined though at the momment if your old school you don't have many if any options left.
So...people left those games because the Devs made drastic changes that the players didn't like?
...and it's our fault?
By the way, speak for youself on that bit about we all being jerks to players outside our little circles. I sure didn't see that as a general rule.
And a correction about UO, since that's the game I spent the vast majority of my gaming in. Trammel did cause some players to leave (but also brought many more back at the time), but the real culprit was the Age of Shadows expansion that turned UO into an item based game with item grind (the other half of level grind) instead of a skill based. While PKing was the single biggest cause of players leaving, the AoS expansion was the second biggest, and all others were well behind those two.
Imo as soon as end game raiding was added all this other garbage just mutiplied like a rabbit on viagra. Aside from botters I had no real issue with DAoC. I didn't even mind some of ToA but I agree the raiding was the nail on its coffin. End game raidings appeals to our baser natures and brings out the casualty of puberty dwelling within most people.
This is a video game. Video games are meant to be fun time wasters. It amazes me how so many of you people derive your sense of accomplishment out of what you do on a computer screen.
This is a video game. Video games are meant to be fun time wasters. It amazes me how so many of you people derive your sense of accomplishment out of what you do on a computer screen.
If games are that simple to you, why bother following a web forum about games ?
do you also read Twilight and enjoy it as you'd enjoy a Tolkien's book ?
This is a video game. Video games are meant to be fun time wasters. It amazes me how so many of you people derive your sense of accomplishment out of what you do on a computer screen.
If games are that simple to you, why bother following a web forum about games ?
do you also read Twilight and enjoy it as you'd enjoy a Tolkien's book ?
Because I enjoy talking about hobbies that I enjoy, and I don't believe there are any MMORPGs out there today that are as easy and instantly gratifying as people say they are.
Comments
To the OP...
Amen Brother. The guy that took your place on the circuit is a loon. Thank God you're back so sister Abigale will stop trying to be a preacher when she doesn't even do the neighborhood gossip thing right.
translation: I am so glad somebody else is as upset about all this as I am. Thank you very much.
To the guy that thinks old school MMOs were "Tedious"... and others that agree...
You shouldn't have been playing them in the first place. They were not your "cup of tea", that's quite obvious. I sucked at the old school MMOs and even I loved it. Not sure why you never enjoyed them to be honest, other than old school MMOs just were not your thing.
It's nothing personal, it's kind of like Me not understanding why People want to live in Condominiums. My Son and and his wife live in one, crammed along with their neighbors like sardine's into narrow cramped homes, paying not only a mortgage but also a condo maintenance fee... I just don't "get it". My Son and his wife, along with their neighbors love it though. They keep trying to get me and my Wife to buy one.
Am I going to buy one and move in? No, that's silly.... because I don't appreciate "Condominium Living" the way my Son does.
Am I going to demand that Architects changes Condos into a style and layout of housing that I appreciate? No, that would be rude and wrong. Why should deprive my Sone and my Daughter-in-Law of a housing style they love just to fit my tastes? There are other styles of Housing I do appreciate and can live in without asking that Condo's be changed.
You see, that is what you and others have done... you didn't "get" the old school MMOs and over time you voiced your opinions that they needed to be changed... in reality it was you and others that should have found a different form of entertainment and left the old school MMOs stay as they were for those of us that did appreciate them. Sure the Accountants and Marketing Execs had a hand in all this, but for right now my comments are for the Players that strove to change MMO gaming from what it was into what it now is.
The old school MMOs weren't tedious and/or designed wrongly because for the rest of us we were having fun while we killed X of Y and time just flew by. We all became friends and it didn't matter that almost none of us had never met anyone else in RL. We played hard together, that's what mattered. Damn those times were a blast, and you missed it because you never "got it" in the first place. I wish you had figured it out and appreciated it. It is also unfortunate that you were not the only one that never "got it" since others say the same as you do. Just because you and others think the old school MMOs were "broke" doesn't mean they really were.... you and others just never appreciated them for what they were.
It's all gone now... the "magic" of the old school MMO era, that's the real shame of it all.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
It is a very good post and I think it pretty much covers how many of us feel. I too played WOW for a couple of years but after 1-60 the game lost interest for me.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Just thought I would throw my support to the OP.
What bothers me is why some people can't understand that some of us LIKED the way MMO's were before buying your way became popular.
I liked the idea that if you died you paid a penalty, I liked it when people would group, I liked the idea that you felt you earned something.
I remember when I finally reached level 20 in EQ and I got to pick a last name for my character. A great feeling that I had earned something and had fun doing it.
Oh well those days are gone forever.
Again grats to the OP on a great post.
Nah .. camping & loot drama was WORSE in EQ because loot is so hard to come by.
And you said the magic word ... "WANTING" to finish a dungeon as fast as possible ...
if that is why players want, and what they find fun, what is wrong with it?
I gather that you don't like it ... there are always some fringe players that will go thru a dungeon slowly with you. You can always play with them. It is erroneous to think that you need to be thinking like every player out there to have fun in a MMO.
This should be spread to every corner of the gaming universe.
Well said.
When games turned into an E-sport.
When people stoped playing with friends and chose partners because of their skill or what they could get out of it.
When MMO's stoped being about us and started being about me.
It is soley on our shoulders, the MMO community.
--John Ruskin
Wouldn't it also be erroneous to think that, just because that's all there is to do in current dungeons, that that's what half the players actually want? And wouldn't be equally erroneous to think that this is a fringe element, and nothing more?
"Wanting" can be for many reasons. It could be because that's the one goal. It could be because the person in question is playing the only game in town, and rushing for levels. It could be because there's nothing else of interest there.
Once upon a time....
Nostalgia
MMOs, Society, we all have not changed.
In UO I met just as many jerks who didn't want to help new players as there are in WoW, FFXI, DAoC, or EQ. People in all of those games can be VERY elitist, WoW did not create the mentality, it predates MMOs, its human nature.
That mentality has not grow or shrunk, its stayed the same, you find nice people and you find mean people, they exsist and I'm sorry you can't change that.
The only thing you can effect is your reaction.
Be the change you want in the world, help new players, spread community love. You wouldn't be alone.
Well, you're right in as far as you go. It seems to me, from my perspective, that UO had just as many jerks, but many more helpful players. The reason was that in the sandbox style of UO, players were not only recruiting, but trying to keep those they did recruit. I met quite a few very nice people in WoW who asked me to understand when they booted me from their group because someone better suited came along. I mean, they were really nice about it, but I was still left out, because of the game design. That never happened to me in UO.
Once upon a time....
I don't think gaming has changed as much as people lead it to be. What has happened is that there are now MORE options as far as progressing in our games. Some are indeed faster then others (dungeon crawling vs open world leveling). The problem is that people choose to pick the fastest path regardless if they find it fun or not.
There is still A LOT of fun to be had within World of Warcraft and a lot of adventure out there. But its not going to find you unless you take the time to go out and look for it.
Sadly people tend to look at the fastest path and then just take that over everything else. A game (regardless how its designed or made) is only going to be as much fun as you make it. A developer can give you loads of options to pick from but its your choice to make use of the options you find fun. They can't force everyone to go out and adventure because lets be honest.. not everyone enjoys going out adventureing. Some people like to pvp, some like to pve, some like to dungeon crawl, some like to just grind on mobs, some like to roleplay.. see my point?
I was ganked a whole lot more in UO than I ever have been on a PVP WoW server. Infact often I get entirely left alone by the other side, while I remember in UO that Red Vs Blue mentality was pretty big.
Yeah, I remember. I have a very bad taste in my mouth about PKers and what they do to a game. But that's a different story altogether.
Once upon a time....
to paraphrase Led Zepplin
The words and poster names may change but the whines remain the same.
What exactly are you all complaining about? Is it the cash shop model of payment or is it the idea that MMO's have become easier to solo or there isn't much if any death penalty or some other missing fondly remembered mechanic?
What happened to old school MMO's is simple we happened to them. Thats right you and I.
When I look at why people left certain old school games that still exist by the way I see 1 common denominator.
The people who used to play UO left with the introdution of Trammel. Trammel happened because while people enjoyed the game they got fed up with the general Asshattery of the griefers and exploiters and the general responce from the community was QQ more or STFU and get out.
Those who played DAOC left with the introduction of ToA which came about from ex Everquest players wanting more end game raids and epic loots that could be I win crutches in the original RvR end game.
Those who left Everquest left because of the rare spawn camps the wierd timers the size of the raids needed to take down quite a few of the raid level bosses.
People left SWG because it was a bug filled crud hole of a game and those who stayed through that ran into the NGE that "WOWified" the game without warning while still being a bug filled crud hole.
People won't go back to these games because while the mechanics are still all there (apart from SWG) they are quite dated graphicly and most cases the real reason people left evan though they enjoyed certain mechanics (those being certain class imbalances or unfixed bugs that now seem to grate on the nerve of evan the most old school of players) still exist in all there old school glory.
The other thing we did in these games was while we were all nice and mature and responsible in our own little circle of friends to those outside our clique we were elitist, unfriendly, uncaring asshats who would fly into a nerd rage at the slightest provication.
So what happened to all these old games is basicly us. While we enjoyed certain aspects of the genre we made it hard to impossible for those newer to the game to get into it and see what we enjoyed so much about it all. The new guard have taken over and they were raised on a different set of values to most of us old school players. Weather or not thats a good thing or a bad thing is really yet to be determined though at the momment if your old school you don't have many if any options left.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
That aimed at me or at the most recent posters? Either way, from your previous posts I've read on this site, I expect far better quality dialog than this pointless troll-fest.
If you have some actual intelligent input on the subject, even if it is at complete odds with my opinions, I welcome it. If however, this post is the best you can do, why don't you do everyone a favor and just STFU.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
When did Instant Gratification Usurp Adventure?
In my opinion it was several months before The Burning Crusade launched.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
So...people left those games because the Devs made drastic changes that the players didn't like?
...and it's our fault?
By the way, speak for youself on that bit about we all being jerks to players outside our little circles. I sure didn't see that as a general rule.
And a correction about UO, since that's the game I spent the vast majority of my gaming in. Trammel did cause some players to leave (but also brought many more back at the time), but the real culprit was the Age of Shadows expansion that turned UO into an item based game with item grind (the other half of level grind) instead of a skill based. While PKing was the single biggest cause of players leaving, the AoS expansion was the second biggest, and all others were well behind those two.
Once upon a time....
Well done OP, expressed my thoughts exactly.
Imo as soon as end game raiding was added all this other garbage just mutiplied like a rabbit on viagra. Aside from botters I had no real issue with DAoC. I didn't even mind some of ToA but I agree the raiding was the nail on its coffin. End game raidings appeals to our baser natures and brings out the casualty of puberty dwelling within most people.
WoW
This is a video game. Video games are meant to be fun time wasters. It amazes me how so many of you people derive your sense of accomplishment out of what you do on a computer screen.
If games are that simple to you, why bother following a web forum about games ?
do you also read Twilight and enjoy it as you'd enjoy a Tolkien's book ?
Because I enjoy talking about hobbies that I enjoy, and I don't believe there are any MMORPGs out there today that are as easy and instantly gratifying as people say they are.