Originally posted by NortonGB That's a $50 box price & $15/month subscription, not to mention personal pc running costs. I can tell you one that isn't. http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/NortonGB
It is too personal as a question.
At the moment i'd say none, because i don't really have the whole year to enjoy it (i can play a few hours per week).
Anyway i say none except EvE. Of course like most here say this question of yours is a objective one which turns your Blog into just another biassed comment among thousands.
My blog is biased but not without reason, FLS have earned it by treating their honest customers with contempt.
Just because you make the number sound higher by saying how much it costs for the whole year plus the box cost (I never pay the box cost I wait till it goes just sub fee), it is still an insignificant cost. As people have pointed out a million times on these forums, there's not much else that you can do in a month for the same cost as an MMO that compares at all in entertainment time.
If $15 a month is a strain on your budget, you have major problems that you need to focus on instead of playing video games.
The OP Still has a point.
Consider the fact that I spent $5 on Geometry wars. I've had it for about a two years and still play it regularly. I paid about $10 for COD: World at War (used) about a year ago and I still play it online just about every week. I bought The Orange Box the same week it came out for $60 and not only have I beaten Half-Life 2 (8 hours), Portal (3 hours), HL2 Episode one (4 hours), but I've also racked up some serious milage in Team Fortress 2. If my internet connections wasn't so much shit, it's currently 3G, I would still be playing TF2 once a day. Better still, I haven't paid a dime for League of Legends, but I play one or two practice matches every night.
Compared to the entertainment value in other gaming genres, $230 per year is damn expensive.
So is a $150 bar tab on a wed night.. but who is complaining?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Whether it is worth it or not is up to the individual. For myself ive found three MMO's that was worth it to me. EQ2, WOW and LOTRO. Ive played several others but none could keep me interested for a year so they were not worth it to me. WOW and LOTRO are over for me but I may play EQ2 again but I doubt if I will put another year into it.
Edit: In the case of EQ2 one would not have to spend $230 for a year because if you buy the latest xpac you recieve all the content that came before.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Just because you make the number sound higher by saying how much it costs for the whole year plus the box cost (I never pay the box cost I wait till it goes just sub fee), it is still an insignificant cost. As people have pointed out a million times on these forums, there's not much else that you can do in a month for the same cost as an MMO that compares at all in entertainment time.
If $15 a month is a strain on your budget, you have major problems that you need to focus on instead of playing video games.
The OP Still has a point.
Consider the fact that I spent $5 on Geometry wars. I've had it for about a two years and still play it regularly. I paid about $10 for COD: World at War (used) about a year ago and I still play it online just about every week. I bought The Orange Box the same week it came out for $60 and not only have I beaten Half-Life 2 (8 hours), Portal (3 hours), HL2 Episode one (4 hours), but I've also racked up some serious milage in Team Fortress 2. If my internet connections wasn't so much shit, it's currently 3G, I would still be playing TF2 once a day. Better still, I haven't paid a dime for League of Legends, but I play one or two practice matches every night.
Compared to the entertainment value in other gaming genres, $230 per year is damn expensive.
You are not a normal consumer. Most people who play FPS or other non MMO games tend to buy at least 4-5 through the year, which oddly enough adds up to more then the OPs example. Are there people out there who will buy a budget game and play it for 6 months without spending any other money on games? Of course. Are those people a small minority of gamers? Yes.
>>Not quite true, players don't want to pay & then find there is no end game or long term rewards.
>>There are many players that think subscription charges are too high due to their poor income so they will always >>play the F2P cash shop mmos many of which now have more content & features than subscription mmos.
And that...would be bad game design and the game won't last. Which is why I was talking about quality games. As to your point that poor income prevents one from playing these very very cheap to play games, then I point to you that the systems required to really play them cost a decent chunk of cash. So "if" you can afford a decent system to run said games, then you damn well can afford 15.00 a month to subscribe to said game.
>> You are not a normal consumer. Most people who play FPS or other non MMO games tend to buy at least 4-5 through the year, which oddly enough adds up to more then the OPs example. Are there people out there who will buy a budget game and play it for 6 months without spending any other money on games? Of course. Are those people a small minority of gamers? Yes.
Then those players are not buying the "right" games for themselves. It truly isn't our fault that so many players are complete idiots. If they are players who purchase FPS and other none MMO games as their games of choice, why would they waste their money on a rpg? Seriously, why?
Personally in my opinion there appears to be this growing demand in recent years, a trend I guess. That players want instant rewards and dont really want to pay for it. It reminds me of the trend towards skewing the risk/reward concept in gaming now a days. Players appear to not recognise that if they just have to pull a lever to get the toy/reward then the toy/reward becomes meaningless.
Good quality games cost time and money, therefore they cost. If you dont see the value of the game, then as I mentioned you probably need to find a new hobby.
Not quite true, players don't want to pay & then find there is no end game or long term rewards.
There are many players that think subscription charges are too high due to their poor income so they will always play the F2P cash shop mmos many of which now have more content & features than subscription mmos.
lets get some perspective here. If yoy play an MMO for just 10 hours a week that comes out to less that .4 cents an hour. subscriptions are NOT to high when considering other options for that kind of money. pretty much checking out books at the library or carving little items out of falled tree limbs.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
. So "if" you can afford a decent system to run said games, then you damn well can afford 15.00 a month to subscribe to said game.
Well I do agree about a quality mmorpg, sadly most are all the same hack-n-slash type which don't hold my attention anymore as they all seem the same.
I'm happy to pay out $15/month & invest much more time if companies would build in more content & depth from launch and try out new leading market inventive ideas that hold my attention more than 5 mins.
At the end of the day its down to each individual I guess.
Before WoW launched, EQ was kicking out 2 expansions per yr. So add in another 60 bucks per yr.
It had the most NA subs until WoW hit the scene, so obviously folks felt it was worth it.
SOE has scaled back to 1 expansion per yr for EQ/EQ2, which is what I think a game should do. ! expansion per yr, plus some free content updates.
From my understanding, WoW hasnt put out many expansions, and their subs dip due to folks not having new things to do. I dont know what they do as far as free content, but it seems with all the money coming in they would wanna keep cranking stuff out.
Granted Blizz poilishes their content, but 2 yrs between expansions is quite a while.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
. So "if" you can afford a decent system to run said games, then you damn well can afford 15.00 a month to subscribe to said game.
Well I do agree about a quality mmorpg, sadly most are all the same hack-n-slash type which don't hold my attention anymore as they all seem the same.
I'm happy to pay out $15/month & invest much more time if companies would build in more content & depth from launch and try out new leading market inventive ideas that hold my attention more than 5 mins.
At the end of the day its down to each individual I guess.
for the perfect MMO which is entirely possible I would pay $100 a month to be honest.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
50 weeks, 15 hours a week = less than .31cents an hour.
Then, collect all the hobbies you can do for that amount or less. then re-ask the question.
Thus, golf is out, watching TV is in as a comparable
He nailed it on here.
If you aren't paying for a monthly sub and only play single player games than you could easily end upp spending more money.
15$/month is nothing . .. just going to the movie can cost 25$ if you get popcorn and a drink with it. A movie lasts 2 hours but an MMO is probably going to be playing at least 2 hours a day.
All P2P games are a pretty good deal if you think about it.
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“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
How much time do you spend playing games per day? Not just MMOs, all games.
If you're a working adult with a wife and kids then you're probably lucky to get forty five minutes to two hours of game time during the week with about four hours on the weekends. The screaming high edge of that comes to about eighteen hours a week. Unless you plan on going professional, you don't need anywhere near that amount of time to be competent at your average online FPS, RTS, fighting or racing/sports game.
In terms of single player games, a game like Morrowind (game of the year edition) will take you, more or less, the better part of a year to get through with that schedule. In fact, most RPGs will take you about a month to get through on an eighteen hour a week schedule. It gets better if you own a console because you can confine yourself to some solid multiplayer games during the week and rent four eight hour action or strategy games on the weekends for less than an MMO sub. Oh yeah, and you can trade your console games in as well as buy the games used which reduces the cost for your gaming even further.
And I haven't even touched on retro games and freeware indie games yet. BTW, did you guys know that Rise of Nations is free now? Don't forget pure arcade style games like Geometry wars and Pac Man Championship Edition which are infinitely replayable and cost less than $10.
Oooooooooo! What about portable games? For the price of an MMO box and one month sub I can buy Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII, God of War: Chains of Olympus, Final Fantasy Tactics: War of The Lions, Killzone: Liberation, Phantasy Star Portable, Monster Hunter Freedom 2, Valkyrie profile: Lenneth and Daxter for the PSP at Half.com. Or I could buy Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Sonic Rush, Final Fantasy 3, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, Final Fantasy XII: Revnant Wings, Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of The Rift, Star Fox Command, Advanced Wars: Dual Strike and Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword for the Nintendo DS on Half.com. Hell Monster Hunter Freedom 2 and Advanced Wars: Dual Strike have enough game to last you though a nuclear winter.
I guess if you're an unemployed teenager or an unemployed man-child who lives in his parent's basement then yeah, vanilla single/multiplayer games would be more expensive. But most normal people, many of whom also play games, don't play like their hobby is a second job. Personally, I'd rather spend my $15 a month on one new game, or four rented games, rather than he same game every month, pinned to the time commitments that typical MMORPGs extort from their user base.
How much time do you spend playing games per day? Not just MMOs, all games.
If you're a working adult with a wife and kids then you're probably lucky to get forty five minutes to two hours of game time during the week with about four hours on the weekends. The screaming high edge of that comes to about eighteen hours a week. Unless you plan on going professional, you don't need anywhere near that amount of time to be competent at your average online FPS, RTS, fighting or racing/sports game.
In terms of single player games, a game like Morrowind (game of the year edition) will take you, more or less, the better part of a year to get through with that schedule. In fact, most RPGs will take you about a month to get through on an eighteen hour a week schedule. It gets better if you own a console because you can confine yourself to some solid multiplayer games during the week and rent four eight hour action or strategy games on the weekends for less than an MMO sub. Oh yeah, and you can trade your console games in as well as buy the games used which reduces the cost for your gaming even further.
And I haven't even touched on retro games and freeware indie games yet. BTW, did you guys know that Rise of Nations is free now? Don't forget pure arcade style games like Geometry wars and Pac Man Championship Edition which are infinitely replayable and cost less than $10.
Oooooooooo! What about portable games? For the price of an MMO box and one month sub I can buy Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII, God of War: Chains of Olympus, Final Fantasy Tactics: War of The Lions, Killzone: Liberation, Phantasy Star Portable, Monster Hunter Freedom 2, Valkyrie profile: Lenneth and Daxter for the PSP at Half.com. Or I could buy Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Sonic Rush, Final Fantasy 3, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, Final Fantasy XII: Revnant Wings, Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of The Rift, Star Fox Command, Advanced Wars: Dual Strike and Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword for the Nintendo DS on Half.com. Hell Monster Hunter Freedom 2 and Advanced Wars: Dual Strike have enough game to last you though a nuclear winter.
I guess if you're an unemployed teenager or an unemployed man-child who lives in his parent's basement then yeah, vanilla single/multiplayer games would be more expensive. But most normal people, many of whom also play games, don't play like their hobby is a second job. Personally, I'd rather spend my $15 a month on one new game, or four rented games, rather than he same game every month, pinned to the time commitments that typical MMORPGs extort from their user base.
i think you're in the wrong forum then. 15$ to you a month is expensive, to others it isnt. For the past year i havent bought a single game (except this past month), because i've been playing EVE and other older games i have. There is no real answer to the question because we are all different. What you find fun (like old, cheaper games) others dont. Who knows, maybe that one person doesnt want to just play morrowind for a year straight ... maybe they want some variety in other video games. Judging people and lumping them into a stereotype, makes come off as an ass as well.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
i think you're in the wrong forum then. 15$ to you a month is expensive, to others it isnt.
Let's clarify. I can afford the $15 a month. I just don't feel that MMOs provide the same amount of entertainment as other gaming options at that same price.
There is no real answer to the question because we are all different.
Not trying to provide a "right" answer. I'm simply explaining why I feel that most games are not worth $230. Period.
What you find fun (like old, cheaper games) others dont.
Yet a large number of people are dissatisfied with the MMO genre in particular. Outside of this forum, as well as in real life, you'll hear a lot of gamers explaining why they just don't feel excited about video games anymore. Obviously, some people like the MMO genre. There are plenty of people that like Farmville. But that doesn't make them good games.
Who knows, maybe that one person doesnt want to just play morrowind for a year straight ... maybe they want some variety in other video games.
If you want variety then MMOs shouldn't even be a consideration. The sheer amount of time that MMOs require, coupled with the obligation that a monthly sub imposes, means that your MMO of choice is going to be the only game you play. If you take a week off of your favorite MMO, then you run the risk of falling behind all of your friends/guildmates in that game. And on an 18 hour a week schedule, big eight hour raids don't leave you any time for other games.
Judging people and lumping them into a stereotype, makes come off as an ass as well.
You're right. I forgot to the rich, jobless, trust fund babies who also have nothing better to do with their time.
i think you're in the wrong forum then. 15$ to you a month is expensive, to others it isnt.
Let's clarify. I can afford the $15 a month. I just don't feel that MMOs provide the same amount of entertainment as other gaming options at that same price.
There is no real answer to the question because we are all different.
Not trying to provide a "right" answer. I'm simply explaining why I feel that most games are not worth $230. Period.
What you find fun (like old, cheaper games) others dont.
Yet a large number of people are dissatisfied with the MMO genre in particular. Outside of this forum, as well as in real life, you'll hear a lot of gamers explaining why they just don't feel excited about video games anymore. Obviously, some people like the MMO genre. There are plenty of people that like Farmville. But that doesn't make them good games.
Who knows, maybe that one person doesnt want to just play morrowind for a year straight ... maybe they want some variety in other video games.
If you want variety then MMOs shouldn't even be a consideration. The sheer amount of time that MMOs require, coupled with the obligation that a monthly sub imposes, means that your MMO of choice is going to be the only game you play. If you take a week off of your favorite MMO, then you run the risk of falling behind all of your friends/guildmates in that game. And on an 18 hour a week schedule, big eight hour raids don't leave you any time for other games.
Judging people and lumping them into a stereotype, makes come off as an ass as well.
You're right. I forgot to the rich, jobless, trust fund babies who also have nothing better to do with their time.
I read i think on gamasutura that the average single player game is designed to be played around 20-60 hours of game play. Playing an MMO at 10 hours a week which most people BY CHOICE play more than that, comes out to about one single player game a month. making single player games more expensive.
That said, we understand that you like single player games more than MMO's. Most of us perfer the other way around and we find MMO prices extreemly reasonable for the amount of time we LIKE to play.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
How much time do you spend playing games per day? Not just MMOs, all games.
If you're a working adult with a wife and kids then you're probably lucky to get forty five minutes to two hours of game time during the week with about four hours on the weekends. The screaming high edge of that comes to about eighteen hours a week. Unless you plan on going professional, you don't need anywhere near that amount of time to be competent at your average online FPS, RTS, fighting or racing/sports game.
In terms of single player games, a game like Morrowind (game of the year edition) will take you, more or less, the better part of a year to get through with that schedule. In fact, most RPGs will take you about a month to get through on an eighteen hour a week schedule. It gets better if you own a console because you can confine yourself to some solid multiplayer games during the week and rent four eight hour action or strategy games on the weekends for less than an MMO sub. Oh yeah, and you can trade your console games in as well as buy the games used which reduces the cost for your gaming even further.
And I haven't even touched on retro games and freeware indie games yet. BTW, did you guys know that Rise of Nations is free now? Don't forget pure arcade style games like Geometry wars and Pac Man Championship Edition which are infinitely replayable and cost less than $10.
Oooooooooo! What about portable games? For the price of an MMO box and one month sub I can buy Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII, God of War: Chains of Olympus, Final Fantasy Tactics: War of The Lions, Killzone: Liberation, Phantasy Star Portable, Monster Hunter Freedom 2, Valkyrie profile: Lenneth and Daxter for the PSP at Half.com. Or I could buy Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Sonic Rush, Final Fantasy 3, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, Final Fantasy XII: Revnant Wings, Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of The Rift, Star Fox Command, Advanced Wars: Dual Strike and Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword for the Nintendo DS on Half.com. Hell Monster Hunter Freedom 2 and Advanced Wars: Dual Strike have enough game to last you though a nuclear winter.
I guess if you're an unemployed teenager or an unemployed man-child who lives in his parent's basement then yeah, vanilla single/multiplayer games would be more expensive. But most normal people, many of whom also play games, don't play like their hobby is a second job. Personally, I'd rather spend my $15 a month on one new game, or four rented games, rather than he same game every month, pinned to the time commitments that typical MMORPGs extort from their user base.
For a "working adult" you sure do have some funny math skills.
But anyhow, there are thousands of absolutely free games available for the computer. If you find them to be more fun than a MMO, then a MMO isn't worth the money for you. I enjoy the MMO i play, i enjoy logging in and hanging out with "working adults" from all over the world - some of whom i've visited over the years.
A big part of the MMO experience for me is having an alternate existence in a different world. I don't mean it in the "Thou art a foxy elf!" roleplaying way. I just mean having an online persona in a game that has their own friends, personality, skills, etc. It's an escape and it's a consistent one and it's a social one. I personally can't get this by downloading The Lost Vikings. I probably COULD get it by getting a free MMO. But I rather prefer paying people who make nice things for making them and in the case of MMOs for continuing to add and improve them.
I buy **maybe** one single-player game every 2 years. In the last 6 years I've bought Assassin's Creed (approx 15 hours of play - got bored), Mass Effect (approx 30) and Mass Effect 2 (approx 30). That's it. Frankly, I just get bored when there is no one in game to talk to. And I am not interested in replaying the game once the story is done.
If I had kids and was spending my days playing super mario with them, maybe i'd have less interest in an MMO. But I don't. I spend my time working, playing video games, attending the arts and travelling around the world. I'm absolutely not sorry about not having kids. $15 a month is very cheap and let's me save money for that $10k trip to Antarctica and that $8k trip to Galapagos. It also helps me make friends globally, so that when I visit foreign countries where I don't know the language, I sometimes have someone local that can show me around as we've been gaming together for years.
p.s. your post does sound like subconsciously you're a little bitter about the whole "tied down with family" situation, maybe evaluate that rather than taking it out on other people's lifestyles.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
For a "working adult" you sure do have some funny math skills.
But anyhow, there are thousands of absolutely free games available for the computer. If you find them to be more fun than a MMO, then a MMO isn't worth the money for you. I enjoy the MMO i play, i enjoy logging in and hanging out with "working adults" from all over the world - some of whom i've visited over the years.
A big part of the MMO experience for me is having an alternate existence in a different world. I don't mean it in the "Thou art a foxy elf!" roleplaying way. I just mean having an online persona in a game that has their own friends, personality, skills, etc. It's an escape and it's a consistent one and it's a social one. I personally can't get this by downloading The Lost Vikings. I probably COULD get it by getting a free MMO. But I rather prefer paying people who make nice things for making them and in the case of MMOs for continuing to add and improve them.
I buy **maybe** one single-player game every 2 years. In the last 6 years I've bought Assassin's Creed (approx 15 hours of play - got bored), Mass Effect (approx 30) and Mass Effect 2 (approx 30). That's it. Frankly, I just get bored when there is no one in game to talk to. And I am not interested in replaying the game once the story is done.
If I had kids and was spending my days playing super mario with them, maybe i'd have less interest in an MMO. But I don't. I spend my time working, playing video games, attending the arts and travelling around the world. I'm absolutely not sorry about not having kids. $15 a month is very cheap and let's me save money for that $10k trip to Antarctica and that $8k trip to Galapagos. It also helps me make friends globally, so that when I visit foreign countries where I don't know the language, I sometimes have someone local that can show me around as we've been gaming together for years.
p.s. your post does sound like subconsciously you're a little bitter about the whole "tied down with family" situation, maybe evaluate that rather than taking it out on other people's lifestyles.
I agree with what you say here. The only difference for me is that I play MMO's for the feel of goal setting and progress which is to limited in a single player game and to slow in real life. Its well put when you say a virtual reality more than a game, that is dead on.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
i think you're in the wrong forum then. 15$ to you a month is expensive, to others it isnt.
Let's clarify. I can afford the $15 a month. I just don't feel that MMOs provide the same amount of entertainment as other gaming options at that same price.
There is no real answer to the question because we are all different.
Not trying to provide a "right" answer. I'm simply explaining why I feel that most games are not worth $230. Period.
What you find fun (like old, cheaper games) others dont.
Yet a large number of people are dissatisfied with the MMO genre in particular. Outside of this forum, as well as in real life, you'll hear a lot of gamers explaining why they just don't feel excited about video games anymore. Obviously, some people like the MMO genre. There are plenty of people that like Farmville. But that doesn't make them good games.
Who knows, maybe that one person doesnt want to just play morrowind for a year straight ... maybe they want some variety in other video games.
If you want variety then MMOs shouldn't even be a consideration. The sheer amount of time that MMOs require, coupled with the obligation that a monthly sub imposes, means that your MMO of choice is going to be the only game you play. If you take a week off of your favorite MMO, then you run the risk of falling behind all of your friends/guildmates in that game. And on an 18 hour a week schedule, big eight hour raids don't leave you any time for other games.
Judging people and lumping them into a stereotype, makes come off as an ass as well.
You're right. I forgot to the rich, jobless, trust fund babies who also have nothing better to do with their time.
I read i think on gamasutura that the average single player game is designed to be played around 20-60 hours of game play. Playing an MMO at 10 hours a week which most people BY CHOICE play more than that, comes out to about one single player game a month. making single player games more expensive.
That said, we understand that you like single player games more than MMO's. Most of us perfer the other way around and we find MMO prices extreemly reasonable for the amount of time we LIKE to play.
Oh I like the idea of MMOs, make no mistake about that. I also prefer multiplayer "eSports" kinds of games over the single player interactive movies that seem popular nowadays. The difference between multiplayer games, both on and offline, and massively multiplayer online games is variety and replayability. MMOs, for the most part, are finite co-op experiences that are built around grind. Sure, video games are all about repetitive actions done to the point of mastery, but MMOs bring you to basic mastery very quickly and then turn into a grind for higher arbitrary numbers. There's little to no variety in the gameplay which causes people to quite once they hit the level cap and end game content. I think I read once that only 30% of all MMO players ever even see end game content so people are quiting and waiting for the next expansion long before they reach that point. Madden 11, Team Fortress 2 and internet chess may be the same thing over an over again, but the games themselves provide enough variety that you can play them practically forever. This is not the case with the majority of MMOs. Exceptions being Eve Online and Darkfall.
Also, you first paragraph assumes that one would have to go out and buy a brand new game a month. If you're strictly a PC game that may be true, but Steam has crazy mad sales on a regular basis so it is highly unlikely that you'll ever have to pay more than $15 month for games. Console gamers have it even better since they can buy a single player game used for the under $20 mark. With pure single player games, the game will be the same whether you play it today or next year so there really isn't any pressure to buy something brand new. As long as the servers for multiplayer games are active, you also have no reason to buy a multiplayer game right this minute. Also keep in mind that even big budget games drop dramatically in retail price in the course of just a few months. Unless you absolutely must buy a game on launch day, it's still possible to do single/multiplayer games on a $15 a month budget.
How much time do you spend playing games per day? Not just MMOs, all games.
If you're a working adult with a wife and kids then you're probably lucky to get forty five minutes to two hours of game time during the week with about four hours on the weekends. The screaming high edge of that comes to about eighteen hours a week. Unless you plan on going professional, you don't need anywhere near that amount of time to be competent at your average online FPS, RTS, fighting or racing/sports game.
In terms of single player games, a game like Morrowind (game of the year edition) will take you, more or less, the better part of a year to get through with that schedule. In fact, most RPGs will take you about a month to get through on an eighteen hour a week schedule. It gets better if you own a console because you can confine yourself to some solid multiplayer games during the week and rent four eight hour action or strategy games on the weekends for less than an MMO sub. Oh yeah, and you can trade your console games in as well as buy the games used which reduces the cost for your gaming even further.
And I haven't even touched on retro games and freeware indie games yet. BTW, did you guys know that Rise of Nations is free now? Don't forget pure arcade style games like Geometry wars and Pac Man Championship Edition which are infinitely replayable and cost less than $10.
Oooooooooo! What about portable games? For the price of an MMO box and one month sub I can buy Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII, God of War: Chains of Olympus, Final Fantasy Tactics: War of The Lions, Killzone: Liberation, Phantasy Star Portable, Monster Hunter Freedom 2, Valkyrie profile: Lenneth and Daxter for the PSP at Half.com. Or I could buy Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Sonic Rush, Final Fantasy 3, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, Final Fantasy XII: Revnant Wings, Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of The Rift, Star Fox Command, Advanced Wars: Dual Strike and Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword for the Nintendo DS on Half.com. Hell Monster Hunter Freedom 2 and Advanced Wars: Dual Strike have enough game to last you though a nuclear winter.
I guess if you're an unemployed teenager or an unemployed man-child who lives in his parent's basement then yeah, vanilla single/multiplayer games would be more expensive. But most normal people, many of whom also play games, don't play like their hobby is a second job. Personally, I'd rather spend my $15 a month on one new game, or four rented games, rather than he same game every month, pinned to the time commitments that typical MMORPGs extort from their user base.
For a "working adult" you sure do have some funny math skills.
Two hours a day during the week is ten hours, four hours on Saturday and Sunday makes eight hours and ten plus eight is eighteen. Gee, for a working adult you sure do have some funny reading comprehension skills.
But anyhow, there are thousands of absolutely free games available for the computer. If you find them to be more fun than a MMO, then a MMO isn't worth the money for you.
Ding, ding, ding!!!!! I think this person gets it!
I enjoy the MMO i play, i enjoy logging in and hanging out with "working adults" from all over the world - some of whom i've visited over the years.
Sitting in front of a monitor and typing to people is not the same as "hanging out." to "hang out" implies face time. Communication is more than just words and interacting with someone through a keyboard isn't even remotely close to talking to someone face to face.
A big part of the MMO experience for me is having an alternate existence in a different world.
Kinda like being delusional then?
I don't mean it in the "Thou art a foxy elf!" roleplaying way. I just mean having an online persona in a game that has their own friends, personality, skills, etc.
Again, you aren't "hanging out" with these people and they aren't your "friends." They only know what you present to them online and you only know what they present to you online. Face to face interaction keeps you from concealing everything about your personality. Are you so insecure that you feel that you must take on another persona in order for people to like you? Why not just change yourself in real life?
It's an escape and it's a consistent one and it's a social one. I personally can't get this by downloading The Lost Vikings. I probably COULD get it by getting a free MMO. But I rather prefer paying people who make nice things for making them and in the case of MMOs for continuing to add and improve them.
You could probably get this from yahoo chat or IMVU. MMOs are not about gaming for you. You are not a gamer. Alot of this has to do with the fact that MMOs aren't really games, but that's another topic.
I buy **maybe** one single-player game every 2 years. In the last 6 years I've bought Assassin's Creed (approx 15 hours of play - got bored), Mass Effect (approx 30) and Mass Effect 2 (approx 30). That's it. Frankly, I just get bored when there is no one in game to talk to. And I am not interested in replaying the game once the story is done.
Agian, you're more concerned with the story than the game. When I want a story, I watch a movie or read a book. When I want a puzzle or a challenge, I play a game. We have seperate views here and you don't seem to realize this.
If I had kids and was spending my days playing super mario with them, maybe i'd have less interest in an MMO. But I don't. I spend my time working, playing video games, attending the arts and travelling around the world. I'm absolutely not sorry about not having kids. $15 a month is very cheap and let's me save money for that $10k trip to Antarctica and that $8k trip to Galapagos. It also helps me make friends globally, so that when I visit foreign countries where I don't know the language, I sometimes have someone local that can show me around as we've been gaming together for years.
I studied Esperanto and get pretty much the same experience by chatting in Esperanto chat rooms and posting to Esperanto forums and blogs. I also don't have kids, but I am married and have a full time job as well as other grown up obligations. My time is valuable and I don't want to waste it LFG or spending three hours preping for a raid.
p.s. your post does sound like subconsciously you're a little bitter about the whole "tied down with family" situation, maybe evaluate that rather than taking it out on other people's lifestyles.
Wrong again. I was pointing out the views on this forum do not neccassarily reflect the behavior of the "average" gamer. There are a number of players that are able to devote 40+ hours a week to their favorite MMO. These players are a small, extremely vocal, minority and need to be reminded this every now and again. I see comments that degrade so-called "casual" gamers all the time and I honestly believe that periodic turnabout is healthy thing for any community.
This conversation has turned well away from the topic.. I hate to be the one to be blunt, well not really it dont bother me at all.. The ancer to the question is very simple and not always the same for everyone.. Yes we can sit here and argue the minor crap all day long.. One says 230 bucs a year is alot of money, and taken in that context sure it can be.. BUT on the otherhand how much does an average golfer pay a year?? ALOT more and this is a FACT... Or how about the avid movie fanatic who has to see all the new movies in the theater?? The bottem line if taken in the context of hobbies, and lets face it MMORPG's are a hobby, its a fairly cheap one... I spend more then $15 going out to play darts for a couple of hours let alone be able to do it all month long... If you think $230 a year is expencive for a hobby that you get to do ALL YEAR LONG, then i thank god every day im not you... I know i would have ALOT less money every year if i took up any 1 of the thousands of other hobbies out there...
Hopefully the OP isn't debating whether or not $230 year is alot of money for an MMO. What he means (hopefully) is it worth it FOR THE INDIVIDUAL that plays MMO's. $230 a year for a genre of entertainment that provides you unlimited access for 365 days of that year is not alot of money and anyone that says it is needs to stop breathing.
I'd spend a whole lot more for an MMO if it's one that I enjoy. Living in NYC where movies are $15 a pop, drinks $8+, and let's not even go into Plays, musicals on Broadway, fashion shows, after work drinks, dinners, etc. I have spent easily $230 in one NIGHT living here, let alone a year. So by that comparison MMOs are a darn good bargain, in fact since playing MMOs I have saved thousands of dollars in entertainment costs.
Right now I feel that there are many MMOs worth the price, even if I dont particularly play them or desire to. I played EQ2 for years and the game has so much content and things to do that $230 a year is darn right scandalous. I play WOW and EVE Online now and they are both worth it. WOW for the endgame content and EVE for the ability to train offline and continue character progression. I could go on and on, they are all worth the amount of entertainment they offer. It's really just a matter of taste.
Comments
It is too personal as a question.
At the moment i'd say none, because i don't really have the whole year to enjoy it (i can play a few hours per week).
My blog is biased but not without reason, FLS have earned it by treating their honest customers with contempt.
So is a $150 bar tab on a wed night.. but who is complaining?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Whether it is worth it or not is up to the individual. For myself ive found three MMO's that was worth it to me. EQ2, WOW and LOTRO. Ive played several others but none could keep me interested for a year so they were not worth it to me. WOW and LOTRO are over for me but I may play EQ2 again but I doubt if I will put another year into it.
Edit: In the case of EQ2 one would not have to spend $230 for a year because if you buy the latest xpac you recieve all the content that came before.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
You are not a normal consumer. Most people who play FPS or other non MMO games tend to buy at least 4-5 through the year, which oddly enough adds up to more then the OPs example. Are there people out there who will buy a budget game and play it for 6 months without spending any other money on games? Of course. Are those people a small minority of gamers? Yes.
>>NortonG
>>Not quite true, players don't want to pay & then find there is no end game or long term rewards.
>>There are many players that think subscription charges are too high due to their poor income so they will always >>play the F2P cash shop mmos many of which now have more content & features than subscription mmos.
And that...would be bad game design and the game won't last. Which is why I was talking about quality games. As to your point that poor income prevents one from playing these very very cheap to play games, then I point to you that the systems required to really play them cost a decent chunk of cash. So "if" you can afford a decent system to run said games, then you damn well can afford 15.00 a month to subscribe to said game.
>>Snarlingwolf
>> You are not a normal consumer. Most people who play FPS or other non MMO games tend to buy at least 4-5 through the year, which oddly enough adds up to more then the OPs example. Are there people out there who will buy a budget game and play it for 6 months without spending any other money on games? Of course. Are those people a small minority of gamers? Yes.
Then those players are not buying the "right" games for themselves. It truly isn't our fault that so many players are complete idiots. If they are players who purchase FPS and other none MMO games as their games of choice, why would they waste their money on a rpg? Seriously, why?
lets get some perspective here. If yoy play an MMO for just 10 hours a week that comes out to less that .4 cents an hour. subscriptions are NOT to high when considering other options for that kind of money. pretty much checking out books at the library or carving little items out of falled tree limbs.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Well I do agree about a quality mmorpg, sadly most are all the same hack-n-slash type which don't hold my attention anymore as they all seem the same.
I'm happy to pay out $15/month & invest much more time if companies would build in more content & depth from launch and try out new leading market inventive ideas that hold my attention more than 5 mins.
At the end of the day its down to each individual I guess.
Before WoW launched, EQ was kicking out 2 expansions per yr. So add in another 60 bucks per yr.
It had the most NA subs until WoW hit the scene, so obviously folks felt it was worth it.
SOE has scaled back to 1 expansion per yr for EQ/EQ2, which is what I think a game should do. ! expansion per yr, plus some free content updates.
From my understanding, WoW hasnt put out many expansions, and their subs dip due to folks not having new things to do. I dont know what they do as far as free content, but it seems with all the money coming in they would wanna keep cranking stuff out.
Granted Blizz poilishes their content, but 2 yrs between expansions is quite a while.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
for the perfect MMO which is entirely possible I would pay $100 a month to be honest.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
He nailed it on here.
If you aren't paying for a monthly sub and only play single player games than you could easily end upp spending more money.
15$/month is nothing . .. just going to the movie can cost 25$ if you get popcorn and a drink with it. A movie lasts 2 hours but an MMO is probably going to be playing at least 2 hours a day.
All P2P games are a pretty good deal if you think about it.
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Okay, let's break this right down to he ground.
How much time do you spend playing games per day? Not just MMOs, all games.
If you're a working adult with a wife and kids then you're probably lucky to get forty five minutes to two hours of game time during the week with about four hours on the weekends. The screaming high edge of that comes to about eighteen hours a week. Unless you plan on going professional, you don't need anywhere near that amount of time to be competent at your average online FPS, RTS, fighting or racing/sports game.
In terms of single player games, a game like Morrowind (game of the year edition) will take you, more or less, the better part of a year to get through with that schedule. In fact, most RPGs will take you about a month to get through on an eighteen hour a week schedule. It gets better if you own a console because you can confine yourself to some solid multiplayer games during the week and rent four eight hour action or strategy games on the weekends for less than an MMO sub. Oh yeah, and you can trade your console games in as well as buy the games used which reduces the cost for your gaming even further.
And I haven't even touched on retro games and freeware indie games yet. BTW, did you guys know that Rise of Nations is free now? Don't forget pure arcade style games like Geometry wars and Pac Man Championship Edition which are infinitely replayable and cost less than $10.
Oooooooooo! What about portable games? For the price of an MMO box and one month sub I can buy Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII, God of War: Chains of Olympus, Final Fantasy Tactics: War of The Lions, Killzone: Liberation, Phantasy Star Portable, Monster Hunter Freedom 2, Valkyrie profile: Lenneth and Daxter for the PSP at Half.com. Or I could buy Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, Sonic Rush, Final Fantasy 3, Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon, Final Fantasy XII: Revnant Wings, Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of The Rift, Star Fox Command, Advanced Wars: Dual Strike and Ninja Gaiden: Dragon Sword for the Nintendo DS on Half.com. Hell Monster Hunter Freedom 2 and Advanced Wars: Dual Strike have enough game to last you though a nuclear winter.
I guess if you're an unemployed teenager or an unemployed man-child who lives in his parent's basement then yeah, vanilla single/multiplayer games would be more expensive. But most normal people, many of whom also play games, don't play like their hobby is a second job. Personally, I'd rather spend my $15 a month on one new game, or four rented games, rather than he same game every month, pinned to the time commitments that typical MMORPGs extort from their user base.
i think you're in the wrong forum then. 15$ to you a month is expensive, to others it isnt. For the past year i havent bought a single game (except this past month), because i've been playing EVE and other older games i have. There is no real answer to the question because we are all different. What you find fun (like old, cheaper games) others dont. Who knows, maybe that one person doesnt want to just play morrowind for a year straight ... maybe they want some variety in other video games. Judging people and lumping them into a stereotype, makes come off as an ass as well.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I read i think on gamasutura that the average single player game is designed to be played around 20-60 hours of game play. Playing an MMO at 10 hours a week which most people BY CHOICE play more than that, comes out to about one single player game a month. making single player games more expensive.
That said, we understand that you like single player games more than MMO's. Most of us perfer the other way around and we find MMO prices extreemly reasonable for the amount of time we LIKE to play.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For a "working adult" you sure do have some funny math skills.
But anyhow, there are thousands of absolutely free games available for the computer. If you find them to be more fun than a MMO, then a MMO isn't worth the money for you. I enjoy the MMO i play, i enjoy logging in and hanging out with "working adults" from all over the world - some of whom i've visited over the years.
A big part of the MMO experience for me is having an alternate existence in a different world. I don't mean it in the "Thou art a foxy elf!" roleplaying way. I just mean having an online persona in a game that has their own friends, personality, skills, etc. It's an escape and it's a consistent one and it's a social one. I personally can't get this by downloading The Lost Vikings. I probably COULD get it by getting a free MMO. But I rather prefer paying people who make nice things for making them and in the case of MMOs for continuing to add and improve them.
I buy **maybe** one single-player game every 2 years. In the last 6 years I've bought Assassin's Creed (approx 15 hours of play - got bored), Mass Effect (approx 30) and Mass Effect 2 (approx 30). That's it. Frankly, I just get bored when there is no one in game to talk to. And I am not interested in replaying the game once the story is done.
If I had kids and was spending my days playing super mario with them, maybe i'd have less interest in an MMO. But I don't. I spend my time working, playing video games, attending the arts and travelling around the world. I'm absolutely not sorry about not having kids. $15 a month is very cheap and let's me save money for that $10k trip to Antarctica and that $8k trip to Galapagos. It also helps me make friends globally, so that when I visit foreign countries where I don't know the language, I sometimes have someone local that can show me around as we've been gaming together for years.
p.s. your post does sound like subconsciously you're a little bitter about the whole "tied down with family" situation, maybe evaluate that rather than taking it out on other people's lifestyles.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I agree with what you say here. The only difference for me is that I play MMO's for the feel of goal setting and progress which is to limited in a single player game and to slow in real life. Its well put when you say a virtual reality more than a game, that is dead on.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Oh I like the idea of MMOs, make no mistake about that. I also prefer multiplayer "eSports" kinds of games over the single player interactive movies that seem popular nowadays. The difference between multiplayer games, both on and offline, and massively multiplayer online games is variety and replayability. MMOs, for the most part, are finite co-op experiences that are built around grind. Sure, video games are all about repetitive actions done to the point of mastery, but MMOs bring you to basic mastery very quickly and then turn into a grind for higher arbitrary numbers. There's little to no variety in the gameplay which causes people to quite once they hit the level cap and end game content. I think I read once that only 30% of all MMO players ever even see end game content so people are quiting and waiting for the next expansion long before they reach that point. Madden 11, Team Fortress 2 and internet chess may be the same thing over an over again, but the games themselves provide enough variety that you can play them practically forever. This is not the case with the majority of MMOs. Exceptions being Eve Online and Darkfall.
Also, you first paragraph assumes that one would have to go out and buy a brand new game a month. If you're strictly a PC game that may be true, but Steam has crazy mad sales on a regular basis so it is highly unlikely that you'll ever have to pay more than $15 month for games. Console gamers have it even better since they can buy a single player game used for the under $20 mark. With pure single player games, the game will be the same whether you play it today or next year so there really isn't any pressure to buy something brand new. As long as the servers for multiplayer games are active, you also have no reason to buy a multiplayer game right this minute. Also keep in mind that even big budget games drop dramatically in retail price in the course of just a few months. Unless you absolutely must buy a game on launch day, it's still possible to do single/multiplayer games on a $15 a month budget.
GW2 FTW
This conversation has turned well away from the topic.. I hate to be the one to be blunt, well not really it dont bother me at all.. The ancer to the question is very simple and not always the same for everyone.. Yes we can sit here and argue the minor crap all day long.. One says 230 bucs a year is alot of money, and taken in that context sure it can be.. BUT on the otherhand how much does an average golfer pay a year?? ALOT more and this is a FACT... Or how about the avid movie fanatic who has to see all the new movies in the theater?? The bottem line if taken in the context of hobbies, and lets face it MMORPG's are a hobby, its a fairly cheap one... I spend more then $15 going out to play darts for a couple of hours let alone be able to do it all month long... If you think $230 a year is expencive for a hobby that you get to do ALL YEAR LONG, then i thank god every day im not you... I know i would have ALOT less money every year if i took up any 1 of the thousands of other hobbies out there...
Hopefully the OP isn't debating whether or not $230 year is alot of money for an MMO. What he means (hopefully) is it worth it FOR THE INDIVIDUAL that plays MMO's. $230 a year for a genre of entertainment that provides you unlimited access for 365 days of that year is not alot of money and anyone that says it is needs to stop breathing.
I'd spend a whole lot more for an MMO if it's one that I enjoy. Living in NYC where movies are $15 a pop, drinks $8+, and let's not even go into Plays, musicals on Broadway, fashion shows, after work drinks, dinners, etc. I have spent easily $230 in one NIGHT living here, let alone a year. So by that comparison MMOs are a darn good bargain, in fact since playing MMOs I have saved thousands of dollars in entertainment costs.
Right now I feel that there are many MMOs worth the price, even if I dont particularly play them or desire to. I played EQ2 for years and the game has so much content and things to do that $230 a year is darn right scandalous. I play WOW and EVE Online now and they are both worth it. WOW for the endgame content and EVE for the ability to train offline and continue character progression. I could go on and on, they are all worth the amount of entertainment they offer. It's really just a matter of taste.
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online