How about becuase levelign is the same experience until you hit max level. Same ting over and over. Fun.
I like the class system, groupo, and abilities of CoX. But its questing and exping is awful.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
one of the biggest differences between CoH and WoW is the mob AI. CoH has mobs that think, and act different depending on their location, their hitpoints, your hitpoints, your location, what powers you cast on them.
In wow, they're pretty much scripted and have the same behavior no matter what. Raids in wow go to the guys that have scripted their combat to defeat the enemy... but that will go the same way every time or you lose. Successful raiding in wow is done by following the same canonic repetition that has been proven successful by someone else already. Rarely will there be a different way to accomplish the same task. Players do not really need to think fast, just follow instructions.
CoH AI is much more complex because they do different things to throw you off. Or the positioning is different so you have to use the landscape or other objects in the area. For example, you hide behind a car or lightpost and the enemy has to readjust. Do that at the right time and you've made him have to stop his casting/spell whatever, and start again. In wow, the enemy is pretty much immune to obstacles, excepting big hard walls that block line of sight.
Then there's the accuracy on CoH that is outstanding. In Wow, aggro starts, the mob slides to you like they're on roller skates and proceeds to hop around in a scripted menacing manner as you lose hit points. In CoH, the mobs can raise their rifle, take aim, you see the shot come at you and you see those hitpoints affected. You KNOW what every shot did to you because you saw every bit of it. In fact, break line of sight before he fires and he has to lower his rifle, change his position and try again to hit you. Wow would have them shooting anyway and hitting you anyway. A leg sweep in CoH could happen at any time and it will sweep you off your feet. In wow a legsweep (if it could happen) would simply play the animation and you'd be missing X amount of hit points. And the mob would use it at a predictable time, always predictable. CoH details so much more of the fight and it can/will vary every time you fight that mob.
Then of course the undisputed difference... You NEED the trinity of archtypes to be successful in wow (tanker, healer, dps). In CoH any mob can be taken by any group make-up, and be done in a different way to meet the same end. so if you can't get a healer, so what, you'll find another way. you can't do that in woW.
I found CoH a pain to get into. Controls were not very fluid. Sound and music not as good as WoW. No open world feel or exploration factor like Azeroth. These 3 points alone make WoW the better game, hands down.
If CoH were to make the controls similar i.e. like Lotro or EQ2 has done and added a more open world and not some boring ugly city to roam around they would be halfway to being as good as WoW.
Really? The city zones in CoH are quite huge, and you can go pretty much everywhere in them. Want to see what's on top of that skyscraper? Go ahead! CoH had a three axis game world before Blizzard ever concieved of Burning Crusade (heck, even before WoW came out.)
I tried the trial not long ago, and I liked the game fairly well. My one major complaint was the fact that the game world looked so bland. The game-wide city looked like something out of a dreamcast game, and those giant blue walls (aka zone lines) were amazingly annoying.
Sounds like you did the hero starting zone. Yeah, it's universally agreed that the early zones and tutorial area for City of Heroes looks really bland and dated. The game shows it's 2004 age in those areas. Most people also agree that the War Walls (those giant blue zone dividers) are craqp too.
If you were to try City of Villains, you can tell that they learned a lot of stuff from when they made Heroes. CoV looks way better in the tutorials and the zones are way better too. Now, if you really waqnt to see what an old game from 2004 is capable of, try out Praetoria in the new expansion. It looks nothing like the Hero starting zones, it looks like a brand new game released this year, it looks quite amazing.
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
I found CoH a pain to get into. Controls were not very fluid. Sound and music not as good as WoW. No open world feel or exploration factor like Azeroth. These 3 points alone make WoW the better game, hands down.
If CoH were to make the controls similar i.e. like Lotro or EQ2 has done and added a more open world and not some boring ugly city to roam around they would be halfway to being as good as WoW.
Isn't that portrait from Sid Meyer's something. I remember that game, it was pretty fun.
Controls not very fluid? You know you can change the controls right..? I played just like WoW when I played. I hated WoW's music. I've played with it off since classic. My gf keeps hers on and I've never really felt like I was missing anything when she played with her sound up.
The sounds are about the same to me. I can't imagine there being that big of a difference to say a game is better than another, not even close.
No open world feel? You never even left the training area. How would you know? Jumping through the world with super jump is 1000x more fun than using a ground or flying mount put together.
Yeah, Alpha Centauri was the game. Loved it, wish they would make a sequel with today's graphics.
On the note of sound, you are probably a more visual or otherwise type of person. I, however am a very audio(tistic?) type of person. I learn by listening and audio cues and music can move me emotionally like nothing else. It's one of those things for me, so sound and music are a BIG deal. It's also a reason I can't stand a ton of FTP korean games, because of the extremely annoying sound effects the "haya!" sounds or the grunts that are all high pitched.
So..I will admit, when I tried CoH, I didn't really give it a long try and it was a few years ago. At the time I couldn't stand the controls, I don't remember if I tried to change them or not. Something about the game just annoyed me enough to stop me from playing past the first day.
The world of warcraft music is a matter of taste, but if it wasn't good they wouldn't include it in the Video Games Live music tour. I personally LOVE classical music in my games and always play with it booming in my ears. That's just me and my playstyle though.
I'm more audio oriented too, and the sound effects in CoH sound pretty standard for a video game to me. I wouldn't say they're better or worse than WoW, just the same.
I'm not a big fan of WoW's music. The only good pieces are the ones they lifted from Warcraft II and Warcraft III I think. Otherwise I think the WoW music is very toned down pablum like music. It has no soul, no bite to it.
Some of CoH's music is boring, but there are a lot of pieces to choose from (you get a new bit of music as you move to a different area in a zone, most zones have 4 or 5 areas.) Some of the music is pretty rocking, and some of it sounds great, I go through a certain area in a zone just to hear the music. Keep in mind though that CoH uses lots of electronica type music, it seems to fit in with the style of the game.
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
Yeah, like LoTRO or STO? CoH was designed to be a PvE game, it's always been a PvE game, it never was a large scale PvP game. I'm sorry you can't see that.
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
Yeah, like LoTRO or STO? CoH was designed to be a PvE game, it's always been a PvE game, it never was a large scale PvP game. I'm sorry you can't see that.
You do realize what you said in regard to what he said, right? You basically agreed that every MMO is better than CoX.
Personally, I disagree with the idea that CoX is the worst MMO. There are far worse games out there by a long shot.
As for PvP in CoX...well, one of these hours I might actually get into one of those fights in P-D... it automatically queues me every hour but...that is all it does.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
Yeah, like LoTRO or STO? CoH was designed to be a PvE game, it's always been a PvE game, it never was a large scale PvP game. I'm sorry you can't see that.
You do realize what you said in regard to what he said, right? You basically agreed that every MMO is better than C
I was pointing out that not every MMO focuses on PvP, nor do they need to.
one of the biggest differences between CoH and WoW is the mob AI. CoH has mobs that think, and act different depending on their location, their hitpoints, your hitpoints, your location, what powers you cast on them.
In wow, they're pretty much scripted and have the same behavior no matter what. Raids in wow go to the guys that have scripted their combat to defeat the enemy... but that will go the same way every time or you lose. Successful raiding in wow is done by following the same canonic repetition that has been proven successful by someone else already. Rarely will there be a different way to accomplish the same task. Players do not really need to think fast, just follow instructions.
CoH AI is much more complex because they do different things to throw you off. Or the positioning is different so you have to use the landscape or other objects in the area. For example, you hide behind a car or lightpost and the enemy has to readjust. Do that at the right time and you've made him have to stop his casting/spell whatever, and start again. In wow, the enemy is pretty much immune to obstacles, excepting big hard walls that block line of sight.
Then there's the accuracy on CoH that is outstanding. In Wow, aggro starts, the mob slides to you like they're on roller skates and proceeds to hop around in a scripted menacing manner as you lose hit points. In CoH, the mobs can raise their rifle, take aim, you see the shot come at you and you see those hitpoints affected. You KNOW what every shot did to you because you saw every bit of it. In fact, break line of sight before he fires and he has to lower his rifle, change his position and try again to hit you. Wow would have them shooting anyway and hitting you anyway. A leg sweep in CoH could happen at any time and it will sweep you off your feet. In wow a legsweep (if it could happen) would simply play the animation and you'd be missing X amount of hit points. And the mob would use it at a predictable time, always predictable. CoH details so much more of the fight and it can/will vary every time you fight that mob.
Then of course the undisputed difference... You NEED the trinity of archtypes to be successful in wow (tanker, healer, dps). In CoH any mob can be taken by any group make-up, and be done in a different way to meet the same end. so if you can't get a healer, so what, you'll find another way. you can't do that in woW.
I was going to type up a nice reply to this... but about half way through i decided it was a waste of time. You really must not have raided much / any in WoW if thats all you think.
Having played CoH for 4 years and having been part of the reasion Pocket D was created.. I can say the mobs in CoH/CoV are very VERY much scripted. There is little difference between the mobs in CoX and WoW or any other MMO for that matter. The examples you pointed out there apply to every MMO out there and WoW. You agro a mob and then the mob comes to you. You can attempt to hide behind stuff but the mob still finds a clear LOS and attacks you. The same happens within WoW as does CoX.
The only big difference is that in WoW you have dozens and dozens of DIFFERENT looking / feeling dungeons where in CoX there are only about a handfull of templates they use for the instances. The only thing that changes is that in CoX they use a random system for generating the layout of the instance but its still the same basic look and feel as far as the instance goes. One cave is going to look and feel just like any other cave you encounter in the game. One office building is going to look and feel just like the rest with just a different layout.
And just FYI there are bosses in WoW that will throw things at you and knock you down / backwards / out of the way. Heck there are bosses that will pick you up and move you to a location until your party manages to get you out of the location.
Really? Because CoH was once my favorite game and this list is pretty off base, imo.
1.Better character appearance customization – never see the same outfit
Agreed
2. No grinding for gear
Not much grinding for anything. This may be good for the super casual, but this is also why, for the most part, people play to level cap and either start a new toon or quit. There simply is little to work toward.
3. "Secret Bid" style auction house allows for fluctuations in price mirroring a true supply and demand, player-driven economy. If an item is in demand on Monday it will be expensive but if no one is bidding on Tuesday it's value may plummet.
Since the AH, the economy is completely broken. The system itself puts stuff on auction that you can buy for less than 1% of what you can sell it for TO A MERCHANT. Influence management was once a challenging and, imo, fun aspect of the game. The AH has completely wrecked that.
4. Get your travel powers at level 14 for free instead of at level 20 for gold.
I loved flying at 14.
5. Fly, run, jump or teleport.... unless of course you like that translucent horse....
Shouldn't this be 4A? Besides, I'll never have a translucent horse, but I am proud of some of the mounts I do have.
6. Skills & abilities can be quickly modified and customized without grinding. Just enhance your skills with items easily crafted or purchased from the AH or an NPC and head off into battle in a bikini if you like.
This is true, in part because of the broken AH. You used to have to work for enhancements and on your first toon, at least, you were always short. For the record, modifying skills and abilities in WoW is also quick and easy so I'm not sure how this is a point in your favor - especially since most mmo players like having armor and a lot of my friends wouldn't play CoH precisely because there are no armor or weapon upgrades (despite my explanations of enhancements.)
7. All character archetypes can craft everything in the game. You can craft rare enhancements, temporary powers or rare costume pieces. Crafting even at the earliest levels can make you good money or supply you with useful items. Unless you like creating 20 swords just to hit a tier and then vendoring them, only to repeat the process over and over and over.
Compared to WoW, crafting is a joke. Yeah, you can craft everything and you can make a bit of influence - it just isn't going to do a whole lot for you since influence in this game is endless and I can buy anything instantly without bothering to craft.
8. Amazing number and depth of skills ensures that most any group will have the power to complete their mission without worrying about who is a tank, dps, healer, nuker, etc.
Translation: this game has become way, way too easy. 4 controllers on your team and you can't lose.
9. Run a dual spec for free at level 1 as opposed to waiting for level 40 and paying 1000 gold.
This is true, although trying to keep enhancements upgraded on both is a pain. At least with WoW dual-speccing is much easier to manage. I guess the Blizzard point of view is they figured you'd need to have a level 80 alt before you could earn the dual spec, sort of like a reward for hard work. Still, I mostly agree on this one.
10. See a field analyst NPC to scale your difficulty settings making the game slightly easier or much more difficult.
Scaling difficulty is a super cool feature!
11. More casual friendly - no "second job" raiding.
Not sure what you mean, unless you're talking about people being forced into a role they don't want in their guild. This is the player's fault, not a game design issue.
12. Vast amount of player created content. You simply wouldn't have time to play every mission available. Even make your own content – the only major MMO that lets you do that.
Player created content is completely lame. On the off chance you find one where someone actually took the time to write out a cool story, only the group leader will actually be able to read it - telling me that even the designers knew that players would be more interested in bloated xp than in new and creative scenarios.
13. Join a levelling pact with another character and progress at the exact same time whether you are grouped or running solo.
I thought this was great until every time I logged in I was 3 levels higher, had to get rid of my missions, and needed to look for new enhancements. I still think this is a cool idea, but I wouldn't take advantage of it again.
14. Explore and battle from every sqaure inch of the map including every hill or roof top.
This is not really that much different, and will be no different when flight hits vanilla WoW in the next expansion. Had you said, "Blast your enemies to bits while you fly above them," I would have been on board.
15. No boring harvesting/mining – all CoH professions (Day Jobs) provide a buff or temporary ability you can use instead. This is accomplished merely by logging out in a particular area.
There is no reason to harvest or mine in WoW if you don't want to. To compare the tiny, sometimes useless powers granted from day jobs to WoW's professions is completely silly.
16. Certain locations occasionally get attacked and must be defended!
No, they must not be defended. With everyone standing around Architect Entertainment most of the time, who even notices these attacks anymore? I've seen them go by without anyone bothering to stop and take part.
17. More than a button masher playable by children, the elderly and the insane – must use some skill and strategy to defeat enemies.
Simply not true. As long as you're willing to team with people, CoH is an unbelievably easy mmo.
18. Ultra graphics mode in Praetoria looks better than any maxed out area of Azeroth.
Although I agree with you, I think this is more a question of style than it is of quality.
19. Can adjust the size of certain body parts of your characters!
Isn't this pretty much a repeat of number 1?
20. Enemies are not just wandering in circles. Catch them in the act of mugging an innocent, breaking into a car or even mop up a shootout between rival gangs.
Please. Enemies do wander in circles. Just because some of them manage to get into an endless tug of war against some lady for her purse does not mean that the mobs in CoH have any superior AI. For the record, Creatures fight and eat each other in WoW all the time in ways that are much more spectacular than some random fight between a Hellion and a Skull.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
Yeah, like LoTRO or STO? CoH was designed to be a PvE game, it's always been a PvE game, it never was a large scale PvP game. I'm sorry you can't see that.
You do realize what you said in regard to what he said, right? You basically agreed that every MMO is better than C
I was pointing out that not every MMO focuses on PvP, nor do they need to.
Not to turn this into a PvE vs. PvP thread (considering that CoX's mob AI, though still somewhat lackluster is far better than the AI of more popular games), but players offer a challenge that you cannot get from an AI.
With no endgame and not much of a game leading up to endgame, the opportunity to partake in actual challenges would invite a larger crowd.
Of course, that gets into the discussion about communities - since PvE folks consider PvP folks to be garbage; and thus they likely are very happy that PvP is barely an afterthought in the game.
There was a fellow last night on Virtue in Praetoria while I was on showing the game to the girlfriend, and he was typing out in local as if he were actually talking to the NPCs. The gf asked what he was doing. I said he was role-playing. She asked why. I said it is probably fun to him. Both of us wondered why he was doing it in local instead of privately...since that is an infringement on the play of others and rather bad at that, since it was basically the same thing:
"Praetor White, I've done as you asked. What do you have for me now?" or some such repetitive garbage. No variety (but then again, c'mon - this is CoX we're talking about - repetitive is the focus) in what he was saying - etc, etc.
It was not a case of trying to troll you on what you said, by the way. Nothing in what you said stated that games do not need to have PvP in them. You simply agreed that PvP was lacking in it and pointed out other games where it is lacking. Nothing was offered in the least to contradict what he said.
Earlier, you replied to somebody stating that CoX does offer an open world feeling. I'm not sure how you can say that? You believe the zones are large? With Sprint and Ninja Run, the zones are tiny...and then you run into walls - the definition of not open world. There are no seemless zones. There are not even invisible zone walls where there is loading. The walls are obvious. Most of the area inside a zone is pointless. You zip through the zone, do your mission - call your contact - repeat until you move to the next zone.
There are key selling points on what CoX does offer which you cannot get in other games or CoX does better... and then there are the fraudulent statements of a used car salesman offering retitled vehicles...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
The % of people who PVP in most mainstream themepark MMOs is small at best. In other words, no one gives a $hit about PVP as it's just a sideshow in any MMO. Nice try but it will take more than this to kill off my epic "CoH is better than WoW" thread.
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
Yeah, like LoTRO or STO? CoH was designed to be a PvE game, it's always been a PvE game, it never was a large scale PvP game. I'm sorry you can't see that.
You must not understand what i13 did to the game then. It killed off all the existing pvp players and even the pve players said i13 was a dumb move. It doesn't matter that coh is a pve game, the devs went out of their fucking way to destroy the pvp community and they didn't listen to the player feedback. Most players will not let that down, the gaming community will not let that down. I13 was like the NGE for pvp players in CoH, you self minded/delusional pve fanbois still don't get it. When the majority of the pve playerbase agrees that i13 wasn't necessary and was a massive failure, there is a problem, there is only a minority that say it doesn't matter because CoH was never a pvp game built with pvp initially. PvP was fine until they decided to revamp it for no apparent reason, they killed off their pvp playerbase and they didn't give a shit, that's where I'm getting at.
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
Yeah, like LoTRO or STO? CoH was designed to be a PvE game, it's always been a PvE game, it never was a large scale PvP game. I'm sorry you can't see that.
You do realize what you said in regard to what he said, right? You basically agreed that every MMO is better than C
I was pointing out that not every MMO focuses on PvP, nor do they need to.
And I was pointing out that pvp was fine for the pvp playerbase in CoH before i13, they didn't listen to the "pvp" playerbase and killed them all off. I guess they wanted to kill off their pvp playerbase because we were always very vocal about that part of the game. For the most part CoH pvp before i13 was some of the most epic pvp I've had in an MMO since 1997 UO. It was fast paced and required players to be good at movement/good at evasion. It was like an FPS, basically, in terms of the speed of gameplay/combat. I13 ruined it all.
two things I just can not get past with COH/COV...
1.) Cryptic
2.) Men in Tights
I really don't know if they are great MMOs or not... I can not get past these two things to even try it.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
Originally posted by jpnole Originally posted by Gardavil2 two things I just can not get past with COH/COV... 1.) Cryptic It's been under different development/management since Nov 6th 2007 - almost 3 years. 2.) Men in Tights Women in tights.... and bikinis and butt-shorts.... while summoning demons and cracking a fire whip! I really don't know if they are great MMOs or not... I can not get past these two things to even try it.
I will not touch anything Cryptic touches, even if they no longer own it or run it.
As for the WOMEN in tights... female avatars in MMOs are like going to a strip club... All Tease.
The Female Players, now that is a different story
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!" ............... "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. " __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__ ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
There's a reason why Best Buy has the Going Rogue box on sale for $10 off this weekend. Wait a few months and you'll get if for half that. I've bought every expansion box since City of Villains and never paid much more than 10 bucks. CoH has a small core of diehards, but is still suffering from a history of bad design decisions and Jack Emmert. If DC Universe is even a fraction of the game Sony says it is, it will bury CoH and CO. Time will tell.
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
Yeah, like LoTRO or STO? CoH was designed to be a PvE game, it's always been a PvE game, it never was a large scale PvP game. I'm sorry you can't see that.
You do realize what you said in regard to what he said, right? You basically agreed that every MMO is better than C
I was pointing out that not every MMO focuses on PvP, nor do they need to.
Not to turn this into a PvE vs. PvP thread (considering that CoX's mob AI, though still somewhat lackluster is far better than the AI of more popular games), but players offer a challenge that you cannot get from an AI.
With no endgame and not much of a game leading up to endgame, the opportunity to partake in actual challenges would invite a larger crowd.
Of course, that gets into the discussion about communities - since PvE folks consider PvP folks to be garbage; and thus they likely are very happy that PvP is barely an afterthought in the game.
There was a fellow last night on Virtue in Praetoria while I was on showing the game to the girlfriend, and he was typing out in local as if he were actually talking to the NPCs. The gf asked what he was doing. I said he was role-playing. She asked why. I said it is probably fun to him. Both of us wondered why he was doing it in local instead of privately...since that is an infringement on the play of others and rather bad at that, since it was basically the same thing:
"Praetor White, I've done as you asked. What do you have for me now?" or some such repetitive garbage. No variety (but then again, c'mon - this is CoX we're talking about - repetitive is the focus) in what he was saying - etc, etc.
It was not a case of trying to troll you on what you said, by the way. Nothing in what you said stated that games do not need to have PvP in them. You simply agreed that PvP was lacking in it and pointed out other games where it is lacking. Nothing was offered in the least to contradict what he said.
Earlier, you replied to somebody stating that CoX does offer an open world feeling. I'm not sure how you can say that? You believe the zones are large? With Sprint and Ninja Run, the zones are tiny...and then you run into walls - the definition of not open world. There are no seemless zones. There are not even invisible zone walls where there is loading. The walls are obvious. Most of the area inside a zone is pointless. You zip through the zone, do your mission - call your contact - repeat until you move to the next zone.
There are key selling points on what CoX does offer which you cannot get in other games or CoX does better... and then there are the fraudulent statements of a used car salesman offering retitled vehicles...
I PvP sometimes, it's a fun diversion occassionally, but I have way more fun running missions with a team. In other words, I'd rather play co-op than versus. I'd rather the developers come up with fun things to do on a team instead of encouraging players to fight each other. That's part of the appeal of MMOs: being able to play with other people instead of alone.
The zones are actually pretty large. Run from one end of Steel Canyon or Skyway City to the other, it'll take you a while even with travel powers. It's a slight drawback that the zones have to be separated by loading screens, but before WoW (and CoH came out before WoW) this was the norm. It didn't bother my when I played FFXI or EQII, and it doesn't bother me with CoH. There are big zones and lots of zones, and CoH feels far more open and persistant than STO for example and has far more zones than CO for example. Praetoria doesn't even have War Walls, and niether does CoV, so they've ditched that part of the design. I'm not even sure CoH's old engine could handle unified zones, though the Paragon Studios guys do make that engine do stuff Cryptic always claimed was impossible.
Originally posted by Xondar123 Originally posted by SuperXero89 I tried the trial not long ago, and I liked the game fairly well. My one major complaint was the fact that the game world looked so bland. The game-wide city looked like something out of a dreamcast game, and those giant blue walls (aka zone lines) were amazingly annoying.
Sounds like you did the hero starting zone. Yeah, it's universally agreed that the early zones and tutorial area for City of Heroes looks really bland and dated. The game shows it's 2004 age in those areas. Most people also agree that the War Walls (those giant blue zone dividers) are craqp too. If you were to try City of Villains, you can tell that they learned a lot of stuff from when they made Heroes. CoV looks way better in the tutorials and the zones are way better too. Now, if you really waqnt to see what an old game from 2004 is capable of, try out Praetoria in the new expansion. It looks nothing like the Hero starting zones, it looks like a brand new game released this year, it looks quite amazing.
Ok, downloaded the trial, entered Praetoria or whatever its called. I felt like I was playing an older version of Champions Online. I can see the attraction, if that's what you like, but ultimately, DC Universe being around the bend I would rather wait for that and just start that game nice and fresh then play a 5+ year old game.
I still think WoW is the better game, due to the "feel" of the game and the immersion factor. Just my opinion though, no need to get bent out of shape because I don't like your favorite game
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How about becuase levelign is the same experience until you hit max level. Same ting over and over. Fun.
I like the class system, groupo, and abilities of CoX. But its questing and exping is awful.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Fantasy MMOs have fingers and faces that change expression. City does not. Also, are they still using the same bent coat-hanger tails?
one of the biggest differences between CoH and WoW is the mob AI. CoH has mobs that think, and act different depending on their location, their hitpoints, your hitpoints, your location, what powers you cast on them.
In wow, they're pretty much scripted and have the same behavior no matter what. Raids in wow go to the guys that have scripted their combat to defeat the enemy... but that will go the same way every time or you lose. Successful raiding in wow is done by following the same canonic repetition that has been proven successful by someone else already. Rarely will there be a different way to accomplish the same task. Players do not really need to think fast, just follow instructions.
CoH AI is much more complex because they do different things to throw you off. Or the positioning is different so you have to use the landscape or other objects in the area. For example, you hide behind a car or lightpost and the enemy has to readjust. Do that at the right time and you've made him have to stop his casting/spell whatever, and start again. In wow, the enemy is pretty much immune to obstacles, excepting big hard walls that block line of sight.
Then there's the accuracy on CoH that is outstanding. In Wow, aggro starts, the mob slides to you like they're on roller skates and proceeds to hop around in a scripted menacing manner as you lose hit points. In CoH, the mobs can raise their rifle, take aim, you see the shot come at you and you see those hitpoints affected. You KNOW what every shot did to you because you saw every bit of it. In fact, break line of sight before he fires and he has to lower his rifle, change his position and try again to hit you. Wow would have them shooting anyway and hitting you anyway. A leg sweep in CoH could happen at any time and it will sweep you off your feet. In wow a legsweep (if it could happen) would simply play the animation and you'd be missing X amount of hit points. And the mob would use it at a predictable time, always predictable. CoH details so much more of the fight and it can/will vary every time you fight that mob.
Then of course the undisputed difference... You NEED the trinity of archtypes to be successful in wow (tanker, healer, dps). In CoH any mob can be taken by any group make-up, and be done in a different way to meet the same end. so if you can't get a healer, so what, you'll find another way. you can't do that in woW.
Really? The city zones in CoH are quite huge, and you can go pretty much everywhere in them. Want to see what's on top of that skyscraper? Go ahead! CoH had a three axis game world before Blizzard ever concieved of Burning Crusade (heck, even before WoW came out.)
Sounds like you did the hero starting zone. Yeah, it's universally agreed that the early zones and tutorial area for City of Heroes looks really bland and dated. The game shows it's 2004 age in those areas. Most people also agree that the War Walls (those giant blue zone dividers) are craqp too.
If you were to try City of Villains, you can tell that they learned a lot of stuff from when they made Heroes. CoV looks way better in the tutorials and the zones are way better too. Now, if you really waqnt to see what an old game from 2004 is capable of, try out Praetoria in the new expansion. It looks nothing like the Hero starting zones, it looks like a brand new game released this year, it looks quite amazing.
One reason why every other MMO is better. Every other MMO developer cares about pvp and their pvp player base, they don't go out of their way to kill off their entire pvp player base like the CoH devs did in i13. With that I kill this thread.
I'm more audio oriented too, and the sound effects in CoH sound pretty standard for a video game to me. I wouldn't say they're better or worse than WoW, just the same.
I'm not a big fan of WoW's music. The only good pieces are the ones they lifted from Warcraft II and Warcraft III I think. Otherwise I think the WoW music is very toned down pablum like music. It has no soul, no bite to it.
Some of CoH's music is boring, but there are a lot of pieces to choose from (you get a new bit of music as you move to a different area in a zone, most zones have 4 or 5 areas.) Some of the music is pretty rocking, and some of it sounds great, I go through a certain area in a zone just to hear the music. Keep in mind though that CoH uses lots of electronica type music, it seems to fit in with the style of the game.
Yeah, like LoTRO or STO? CoH was designed to be a PvE game, it's always been a PvE game, it never was a large scale PvP game. I'm sorry you can't see that.
You do realize what you said in regard to what he said, right? You basically agreed that every MMO is better than CoX.
Personally, I disagree with the idea that CoX is the worst MMO. There are far worse games out there by a long shot.
As for PvP in CoX...well, one of these hours I might actually get into one of those fights in P-D... it automatically queues me every hour but...that is all it does.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I was pointing out that not every MMO focuses on PvP, nor do they need to.
I was going to type up a nice reply to this... but about half way through i decided it was a waste of time. You really must not have raided much / any in WoW if thats all you think.
Having played CoH for 4 years and having been part of the reasion Pocket D was created.. I can say the mobs in CoH/CoV are very VERY much scripted. There is little difference between the mobs in CoX and WoW or any other MMO for that matter. The examples you pointed out there apply to every MMO out there and WoW. You agro a mob and then the mob comes to you. You can attempt to hide behind stuff but the mob still finds a clear LOS and attacks you. The same happens within WoW as does CoX.
The only big difference is that in WoW you have dozens and dozens of DIFFERENT looking / feeling dungeons where in CoX there are only about a handfull of templates they use for the instances. The only thing that changes is that in CoX they use a random system for generating the layout of the instance but its still the same basic look and feel as far as the instance goes. One cave is going to look and feel just like any other cave you encounter in the game. One office building is going to look and feel just like the rest with just a different layout.
And just FYI there are bosses in WoW that will throw things at you and knock you down / backwards / out of the way. Heck there are bosses that will pick you up and move you to a location until your party manages to get you out of the location.
Really? Because CoH was once my favorite game and this list is pretty off base, imo.
1.Better character appearance customization – never see the same outfit
Agreed
2. No grinding for gear
Not much grinding for anything. This may be good for the super casual, but this is also why, for the most part, people play to level cap and either start a new toon or quit. There simply is little to work toward.
3. "Secret Bid" style auction house allows for fluctuations in price mirroring a true supply and demand, player-driven economy. If an item is in demand on Monday it will be expensive but if no one is bidding on Tuesday it's value may plummet.
Since the AH, the economy is completely broken. The system itself puts stuff on auction that you can buy for less than 1% of what you can sell it for TO A MERCHANT. Influence management was once a challenging and, imo, fun aspect of the game. The AH has completely wrecked that.
4. Get your travel powers at level 14 for free instead of at level 20 for gold.
I loved flying at 14.
5. Fly, run, jump or teleport.... unless of course you like that translucent horse....
Shouldn't this be 4A? Besides, I'll never have a translucent horse, but I am proud of some of the mounts I do have.
6. Skills & abilities can be quickly modified and customized without grinding. Just enhance your skills with items easily crafted or purchased from the AH or an NPC and head off into battle in a bikini if you like.
This is true, in part because of the broken AH. You used to have to work for enhancements and on your first toon, at least, you were always short. For the record, modifying skills and abilities in WoW is also quick and easy so I'm not sure how this is a point in your favor - especially since most mmo players like having armor and a lot of my friends wouldn't play CoH precisely because there are no armor or weapon upgrades (despite my explanations of enhancements.)
7. All character archetypes can craft everything in the game. You can craft rare enhancements, temporary powers or rare costume pieces. Crafting even at the earliest levels can make you good money or supply you with useful items. Unless you like creating 20 swords just to hit a tier and then vendoring them, only to repeat the process over and over and over.
Compared to WoW, crafting is a joke. Yeah, you can craft everything and you can make a bit of influence - it just isn't going to do a whole lot for you since influence in this game is endless and I can buy anything instantly without bothering to craft.
8. Amazing number and depth of skills ensures that most any group will have the power to complete their mission without worrying about who is a tank, dps, healer, nuker, etc.
Translation: this game has become way, way too easy. 4 controllers on your team and you can't lose.
9. Run a dual spec for free at level 1 as opposed to waiting for level 40 and paying 1000 gold.
This is true, although trying to keep enhancements upgraded on both is a pain. At least with WoW dual-speccing is much easier to manage. I guess the Blizzard point of view is they figured you'd need to have a level 80 alt before you could earn the dual spec, sort of like a reward for hard work. Still, I mostly agree on this one.
10. See a field analyst NPC to scale your difficulty settings making the game slightly easier or much more difficult.
Scaling difficulty is a super cool feature!
11. More casual friendly - no "second job" raiding.
Not sure what you mean, unless you're talking about people being forced into a role they don't want in their guild. This is the player's fault, not a game design issue.
12. Vast amount of player created content. You simply wouldn't have time to play every mission available. Even make your own content – the only major MMO that lets you do that.
Player created content is completely lame. On the off chance you find one where someone actually took the time to write out a cool story, only the group leader will actually be able to read it - telling me that even the designers knew that players would be more interested in bloated xp than in new and creative scenarios.
13. Join a levelling pact with another character and progress at the exact same time whether you are grouped or running solo.
I thought this was great until every time I logged in I was 3 levels higher, had to get rid of my missions, and needed to look for new enhancements. I still think this is a cool idea, but I wouldn't take advantage of it again.
14. Explore and battle from every sqaure inch of the map including every hill or roof top.
This is not really that much different, and will be no different when flight hits vanilla WoW in the next expansion. Had you said, "Blast your enemies to bits while you fly above them," I would have been on board.
15. No boring harvesting/mining – all CoH professions (Day Jobs) provide a buff or temporary ability you can use instead. This is accomplished merely by logging out in a particular area.
There is no reason to harvest or mine in WoW if you don't want to. To compare the tiny, sometimes useless powers granted from day jobs to WoW's professions is completely silly.
16. Certain locations occasionally get attacked and must be defended!
No, they must not be defended. With everyone standing around Architect Entertainment most of the time, who even notices these attacks anymore? I've seen them go by without anyone bothering to stop and take part.
17. More than a button masher playable by children, the elderly and the insane – must use some skill and strategy to defeat enemies.
Simply not true. As long as you're willing to team with people, CoH is an unbelievably easy mmo.
18. Ultra graphics mode in Praetoria looks better than any maxed out area of Azeroth.
Although I agree with you, I think this is more a question of style than it is of quality.
19. Can adjust the size of certain body parts of your characters!
Isn't this pretty much a repeat of number 1?
20. Enemies are not just wandering in circles. Catch them in the act of mugging an innocent, breaking into a car or even mop up a shootout between rival gangs.
Please. Enemies do wander in circles. Just because some of them manage to get into an endless tug of war against some lady for her purse does not mean that the mobs in CoH have any superior AI. For the record, Creatures fight and eat each other in WoW all the time in ways that are much more spectacular than some random fight between a Hellion and a Skull.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
Not to turn this into a PvE vs. PvP thread (considering that CoX's mob AI, though still somewhat lackluster is far better than the AI of more popular games), but players offer a challenge that you cannot get from an AI.
With no endgame and not much of a game leading up to endgame, the opportunity to partake in actual challenges would invite a larger crowd.
Of course, that gets into the discussion about communities - since PvE folks consider PvP folks to be garbage; and thus they likely are very happy that PvP is barely an afterthought in the game.
There was a fellow last night on Virtue in Praetoria while I was on showing the game to the girlfriend, and he was typing out in local as if he were actually talking to the NPCs. The gf asked what he was doing. I said he was role-playing. She asked why. I said it is probably fun to him. Both of us wondered why he was doing it in local instead of privately...since that is an infringement on the play of others and rather bad at that, since it was basically the same thing:
"Praetor White, I've done as you asked. What do you have for me now?" or some such repetitive garbage. No variety (but then again, c'mon - this is CoX we're talking about - repetitive is the focus) in what he was saying - etc, etc.
It was not a case of trying to troll you on what you said, by the way. Nothing in what you said stated that games do not need to have PvP in them. You simply agreed that PvP was lacking in it and pointed out other games where it is lacking. Nothing was offered in the least to contradict what he said.
Earlier, you replied to somebody stating that CoX does offer an open world feeling. I'm not sure how you can say that? You believe the zones are large? With Sprint and Ninja Run, the zones are tiny...and then you run into walls - the definition of not open world. There are no seemless zones. There are not even invisible zone walls where there is loading. The walls are obvious. Most of the area inside a zone is pointless. You zip through the zone, do your mission - call your contact - repeat until you move to the next zone.
There are key selling points on what CoX does offer which you cannot get in other games or CoX does better... and then there are the fraudulent statements of a used car salesman offering retitled vehicles...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The % of people who PVP in most mainstream themepark MMOs is small at best. In other words, no one gives a $hit about PVP as it's just a sideshow in any MMO. Nice try but it will take more than this to kill off my epic "CoH is better than WoW" thread.
You must not understand what i13 did to the game then. It killed off all the existing pvp players and even the pve players said i13 was a dumb move. It doesn't matter that coh is a pve game, the devs went out of their fucking way to destroy the pvp community and they didn't listen to the player feedback. Most players will not let that down, the gaming community will not let that down. I13 was like the NGE for pvp players in CoH, you self minded/delusional pve fanbois still don't get it. When the majority of the pve playerbase agrees that i13 wasn't necessary and was a massive failure, there is a problem, there is only a minority that say it doesn't matter because CoH was never a pvp game built with pvp initially. PvP was fine until they decided to revamp it for no apparent reason, they killed off their pvp playerbase and they didn't give a shit, that's where I'm getting at.
And I was pointing out that pvp was fine for the pvp playerbase in CoH before i13, they didn't listen to the "pvp" playerbase and killed them all off. I guess they wanted to kill off their pvp playerbase because we were always very vocal about that part of the game. For the most part CoH pvp before i13 was some of the most epic pvp I've had in an MMO since 1997 UO. It was fast paced and required players to be good at movement/good at evasion. It was like an FPS, basically, in terms of the speed of gameplay/combat. I13 ruined it all.
two things I just can not get past with COH/COV...
1.) Cryptic
2.) Men in Tights
I really don't know if they are great MMOs or not... I can not get past these two things to even try it.
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
I will not touch anything Cryptic touches, even if they no longer own it or run it.
As for the WOMEN in tights... female avatars in MMOs are like going to a strip club... All Tease.
The Female Players, now that is a different story
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
There's a reason why Best Buy has the Going Rogue box on sale for $10 off this weekend. Wait a few months and you'll get if for half that. I've bought every expansion box since City of Villains and never paid much more than 10 bucks. CoH has a small core of diehards, but is still suffering from a history of bad design decisions and Jack Emmert. If DC Universe is even a fraction of the game Sony says it is, it will bury CoH and CO. Time will tell.
To each his own I guess.
Glad you are having fun!
That would be because Best Buy discounts every game during the first week of release.....
I PvP sometimes, it's a fun diversion occassionally, but I have way more fun running missions with a team. In other words, I'd rather play co-op than versus. I'd rather the developers come up with fun things to do on a team instead of encouraging players to fight each other. That's part of the appeal of MMOs: being able to play with other people instead of alone.
The zones are actually pretty large. Run from one end of Steel Canyon or Skyway City to the other, it'll take you a while even with travel powers. It's a slight drawback that the zones have to be separated by loading screens, but before WoW (and CoH came out before WoW) this was the norm. It didn't bother my when I played FFXI or EQII, and it doesn't bother me with CoH. There are big zones and lots of zones, and CoH feels far more open and persistant than STO for example and has far more zones than CO for example. Praetoria doesn't even have War Walls, and niether does CoV, so they've ditched that part of the design. I'm not even sure CoH's old engine could handle unified zones, though the Paragon Studios guys do make that engine do stuff Cryptic always claimed was impossible.
All very nice features, with one small problem.
I like fantasy > heroes.
Don't get me wrong; I like comic books, comic book based cartoons and movies, but I just never can enjoy playing a game about them.
If you were to try City of Villains, you can tell that they learned a lot of stuff from when they made Heroes. CoV looks way better in the tutorials and the zones are way better too. Now, if you really waqnt to see what an old game from 2004 is capable of, try out Praetoria in the new expansion. It looks nothing like the Hero starting zones, it looks like a brand new game released this year, it looks quite amazing.
Ok, downloaded the trial, entered Praetoria or whatever its called. I felt like I was playing an older version of Champions Online. I can see the attraction, if that's what you like, but ultimately, DC Universe being around the bend I would rather wait for that and just start that game nice and fresh then play a 5+ year old game.
I still think WoW is the better game, due to the "feel" of the game and the immersion factor. Just my opinion though, no need to get bent out of shape because I don't like your favorite game