Originally posted by Xondar123 Originally posted by SuperXero89 I tried the trial not long ago, and I liked the game fairly well. My one major complaint was the fact that the game world looked so bland. The game-wide city looked like something out of a dreamcast game, and those giant blue walls (aka zone lines) were amazingly annoying.
Sounds like you did the hero starting zone. Yeah, it's universally agreed that the early zones and tutorial area for City of Heroes looks really bland and dated. The game shows it's 2004 age in those areas. Most people also agree that the War Walls (those giant blue zone dividers) are craqp too. If you were to try City of Villains, you can tell that they learned a lot of stuff from when they made Heroes. CoV looks way better in the tutorials and the zones are way better too. Now, if you really waqnt to see what an old game from 2004 is capable of, try out Praetoria in the new expansion. It looks nothing like the Hero starting zones, it looks like a brand new game released this year, it looks quite amazing.
Ok, downloaded the trial, entered Praetoria or whatever its called. I felt like I was playing an older version of Champions Online. I can see the attraction, if that's what you like, but ultimately, DC Universe being around the bend I would rather wait for that and just start that game nice and fresh then play a 5+ year old game.
I still think WoW is the better game, due to the "feel" of the game and the immersion factor. Just my opinion though, no need to get bent out of shape because I don't like your favorite game
It looked sub par to you because you forgot to crank up the settings. Remember it's "Ultra" & 1680 x 1050. I challenge you to translate your "feel" & "immersion" into solid factual reasons. You can't because the 30 points found in the first 2 posts can't be refuted.
Originally posted by jpnole Originally posted by elockeOriginally posted by Xondar123
Originally posted by SuperXero89 I tried the trial not long ago, and I liked the game fairly well. My one major complaint was the fact that the game world looked so bland. The game-wide city looked like something out of a dreamcast game, and those giant blue walls (aka zone lines) were amazingly annoying.
Sounds like you did the hero starting zone. Yeah, it's universally agreed that the early zones and tutorial area for City of Heroes looks really bland and dated. The game shows it's 2004 age in those areas. Most people also agree that the War Walls (those giant blue zone dividers) are craqp too. If you were to try City of Villains, you can tell that they learned a lot of stuff from when they made Heroes. CoV looks way better in the tutorials and the zones are way better too. Now, if you really waqnt to see what an old game from 2004 is capable of, try out Praetoria in the new expansion. It looks nothing like the Hero starting zones, it looks like a brand new game released this year, it looks quite amazing.
Ok, downloaded the trial, entered Praetoria or whatever its called. I felt like I was playing an older version of Champions Online. I can see the attraction, if that's what you like, but ultimately, DC Universe being around the bend I would rather wait for that and just start that game nice and fresh then play a 5+ year old game.
I still think WoW is the better game, due to the "feel" of the game and the immersion factor. Just my opinion though, no need to get bent out of shape because I don't like your favorite game
It looked sub par to you because you forgot to crank up the settings. Remember it's "Ultra" & 1680 x 1050. I challenge you to translate your "feel" & "immersion" into solid factual reasons. You can't because the 30 points found in the first 2 posts can't be refuted.
I didn't forget that at all. I cranked it up as high as possible and played on 1920x1080 resolution. The graphics are not the ONLY aspect to immersion in the good MMOs. Sound, lighting, environment changes during play and "feel" as in running around, turning, looking starting combat, flow of combat all add up to immersion. The 30 points talk about mechanics. Every game has different mechanics. What sets these MMORPGs apart is the "world" feel. This feels like a game not a world. Therefore, for me at least, it fails. I had the same problem with Champions Online.
I PvP sometimes, it's a fun diversion occassionally, but I have way more fun running missions with a team. In other words, I'd rather play co-op than versus. I'd rather the developers come up with fun things to do on a team instead of encouraging players to fight each other. That's part of the appeal of MMOs: being able to play with other people instead of alone.
For me it still comes down to the limited AI. I do not duel (ie PvP 1v1). I too enjoy the co-op method of play, but I enjoy it with group PvP. For most PvE, the limited AI that lacks challenge for solo play is simply beyond a yawning facepalm when done in a co-op fashion.
I would enjoy PvE more - if it were more like PvP. Everybody that has ever played a PnP RPG should know what I mean here. It was the players versus an environment (mobs, etc) controlled by a human GM/DM. It was PvP PvE. The mobs reacted. They did different things. They acted at the limit of their capabilities, not at the limit of the programmer's limited capabilities.
The zones are actually pretty large. Run from one end of Steel Canyon or Skyway City to the other, it'll take you a while even with travel powers. It's a slight drawback that the zones have to be separated by loading screens, but before WoW (and CoH came out before WoW) this was the norm. It didn't bother my when I played FFXI or EQII, and it doesn't bother me with CoH. There are big zones and lots of zones, and CoH feels far more open and persistant than STO for example and has far more zones than CO for example. Praetoria doesn't even have War Walls, and niether does CoV, so they've ditched that part of the design. I'm not even sure CoH's old engine could handle unified zones, though the Paragon Studios guys do make that engine do stuff Cryptic always claimed was impossible.
UO had invisible zone walls - you could mess with people sitting on a server line. UO came out before CoH. AC did not have the walls either. AO had huge zones, and yes there was a pause as you zoned and hit a wall that you saw when you got close - but nothing like CoH. First Gen and Second Gen games generally did not have anything like this. So no, this was not the norm in the least.
Spending a few minutes to cross a zone does not make it large nor open-feeling, if I am correct in my understanding of what was being said in regard to it. Thirty minutes? Hours? You are getting closer to feeling outside of a shoebox.
As to running the length of Steel Canyon - it takes almost no time to do that trip. With Sprint/Ninja Run (not even an actual travel power), you can make the trip from the Yellow Line station in the SE to the Tailor in the NW in almost no time at all.
And yeah, they ditched the "War Walls" for CoV...by implementing "Rogue Isles" - another artificial means to separate the areas...
...maybe it is time for a new engine, rather than turning on a scant few items from the featureset.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
It looked sub par to you because you forgot to crank up the settings. Remember it's "Ultra" & 1680 x 1050. I challenge you to translate your "feel" & "immersion" into solid factual reasons. You can't because the 30 points found in the first 2 posts can't be refuted.
"Ultra" is not really that ultra in comparison to other games. It is hard to call it "Ultra" in regard to CoX itself. Better? Yes. Ultra? Not so much.
Dismissing "feel" and "immersion" for "solid factual reasons" is stupid. There is no getting around that. It is stupid.
Miltary rations vs. burger n' fries. Which do you think the average person wants?
CoX does feel clunky in comparison to WoW and other games. The world looks like it has not been finished.
All but one or two of your "magic" points have been refuted...easily.
This thread is so sad...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
Only point that matters is your own. If it is better in your opinion, that's great ...for YOU. I believe other games...numerous other games...are better than CoH. That is my opinion, and since I'm the one who has to play my own game, then that is really all that matters.
I am so happy for you that you think your game is best. That means you enjoy it. However, I get so sick of hearing crap about this game or that game being better than any other game. It's all a matter of personal taste and selection. There is no way to make a blanket, overwhelming statement that a game (in a completely different genre, by the way) is better than every game in said other genre.
It's apples to oranges. And to use that as an example...let's say that one person says apples are so much better than oranges because...
1. they come in multiple colors. oranges only come in orange
2. they have a cool stem you can play a game with
3. they have a case around the seeds so you can easily avoid them
4. you can eat the outside skin on an apple
etc.
Going even further, it's like saying brocolli is better than oranges, since they aren't the same "genre."
Notice the points above are factual and true, but to the person that likes oranges, those points don't matter. Saying something is "Better" or "Best" is an opinion, no matter how many facts you throw at it.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
Only point that matters is your own. If it is better in your opinion, that's great ...for YOU. I believe other games...numerous other games...are better than CoH. That is my opinion, and since I'm the one who has to play my own game, then that is really all that matters.
I am so happy for you that you think your game is best. That means you enjoy it. However, I get so sick of hearing crap about this game or that game being better than any other game. It's all a matter of personal taste and selection. There is no way to make a blanket, overwhelming statement that a game (in a completely different genre, by the way) is better than every game in said other genre.
Then stop coming to other games' forums and stick to your game's forums. Then you won't hear praises for games that you don't like. Case solved.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
Accept what? You like CoH. Great I mean the vast majority would think your crazy for your statements but all that really matters is that you like the game. Why have you been picking these dumb fights anyways? You basically saying a game with a very very small population is better than Pretty much everything else out there. Not a very compelling argument.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
Im sorry noone needs to refute anything for you, everyone likes there own game for there own reasons. I have to ask myself why you are on this forum trying to get recognition for your game instead of playing it if it is that great though.
But becasue you keep pestering for it i will tell you WHY i think wow is a much better game.
Seamless world, you can walk/fly from one end of the continent to the other without a loading screen. (noinstances where your in a room on your own that looks just like the last one you was on)
The quests/lore are well writen. (compered to the repetitivness of CoX missions they are 100 times better)
No dungeans look the same and all have there own story. (when going on a mission in CoX you can be pretty sure you will find yourself in some bland looking office)
Class customisation.
The way the char interacts with the world and combat, very flued. (CoX seems very clunky to me)
The world and its verity. (CoX just seemed very drab and uninspired)
The chars in the world.
Raids.
END GAME! (CoX does not have it)
The only thing i would agree with on your list in char customisation, the rest is a very drab, repetitive game with no deapth.
But like most people bar you seem to understand is we all like diffrent things, its what makes life so veried.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
You need a better hobby than trolling the forums.
But I'll give you one reason.
WOW has 12M subs, COH <100K.</p>
All you need to know actually.
Is it 10.5, 11 or 12 million? It keeps changing depending on the posts you read. Either way, 80% of those are Chinese. I wonder if they care whether or not they look the same as everyone else in Ironforge. Before I forget:
31. No Chinese gold farmers
32. No reliance on gear score. Be happily accepted into any supergroup (guild)
33. Vast number of enemy types. Not just recolored wolves, deer and boars.
Gotta run. Someone continue the list... or refute them.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
Only point that matters is your own. If it is better in your opinion, that's great ...for YOU. I believe other games...numerous other games...are better than CoH. That is my opinion, and since I'm the one who has to play my own game, then that is really all that matters.
I am so happy for you that you think your game is best. That means you enjoy it. However, I get so sick of hearing crap about this game or that game being better than any other game. It's all a matter of personal taste and selection. There is no way to make a blanket, overwhelming statement that a game (in a completely different genre, by the way) is better than every game in said other genre.
Then stop coming to other games' forums and stick to your game's forums. Then you won't hear praises for games that you don't like. Case solved.
I appreciate the insult. Really, I do, but I'm on my game's forum. I play LOTS of games. It happens on all game forums, and I don't understand why people argue about opinion as if it's fact. I was merely making an illustrative point (using the apples to oranges example) that his "facts" don't automatically make his or any other game better than another one. The words better, worse, best, etc. are opinions and not at all based on any fact, except in the mind of the person it matters to. ever. Wasn't complaining so much as observing. The OP is more than welcome to his opinion, as are the responders, but that's the point. It's their opinion of what game is better. It's not fact. So thanks for the invite, I sure will stick to my game forums. All of them. Have a nice day.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
You need a better hobby than trolling the forums.
But I'll give you one reason.
WOW has 12M subs, COH <100K.
All you need to know actually.
Is it 10.5, 11 or 12 million? It keeps changing depending on the posts you read. Either way, 80% of those are Chinese. I wonder if they care whether or not they look the same as everyone else in Ironforge. Before I forget: 31. No Chinese gold farmers 32. No reliance on gear score. Be happily accepted into any supergroup (guild) 33. Vast number of enemy types. Not just recolored wolves, deer and boars. Gotta run. Someone continue the list... or refute them.
You do realise that the only reason there is no gold farmers is becasue its not worth there while becasue the game just doesnt have the players or the econony.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
Only point that matters is your own. If it is better in your opinion, that's great ...for YOU. I believe other games...numerous other games...are better than CoH. That is my opinion, and since I'm the one who has to play my own game, then that is really all that matters.
I am so happy for you that you think your game is best. That means you enjoy it. However, I get so sick of hearing crap about this game or that game being better than any other game. It's all a matter of personal taste and selection. There is no way to make a blanket, overwhelming statement that a game (in a completely different genre, by the way) is better than every game in said other genre.
Then stop coming to other games' forums and stick to your game's forums. Then you won't hear praises for games that you don't like. Case solved.
I appreciate the insult. Really, I do, but I'm on my game's forum. I play LOTS of games. It happens on all game forums, and I don't understand why people argue about opinion as if it's fact. I was merely making an illustrative point (using the apples to oranges example) that his "facts" don't automatically make his or any other game better than another one. The words better, worse, best, etc. are opinions and not at all based on any fact, except in the mind of the person it matters to. ever. Wasn't complaining so much as observing. The OP is more than welcome to his opinion, as are the responders, but that's the point. It's their opinion of what game is better. It's not fact. So thanks for the invite, I sure will stick to my game forums. All of them. Have a nice day.
Dev
If you thought that was an insult then you must not read these forums at all.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
There is not a need to do so, but here we go again, eh?
Originally posted by jpnole
20 reasons why CoH/CoV is better than WoW (and the rest of the fantasy MMOs for that matter):
Better character appearance customization – never see the same outfit (FACT - though the customized appearance has nothing to do with game mechanics)
No grinding for gear! (FALSE - you grind INF for Enhancements which serve the same purpose as gear)
"Secret Bid" style auction house allows for fluctuations in price mirroring a true supply and demand, player-driven economy. If an item is in demand on Monday it will be expensive but if no one is bidding on Tuesday it's value may plummet. (FALSE - all auction houses reflect supply and demand)
Get your travel powers at level 14 for free instead of at level 20 for gold. (OPINION - level 14 in CoX is akin to level 23 in WoW - travel powers in CoH require you use one of your few power choices)
Fly, run, jump or teleport.... unless of course you like that translucent horse.... (MOOT - technically, you can fly, run, jump, and teleport in WoW - flying, running, jumping, and teleporting in a superhero game would not fit well in a fantasy game)
Skills & abilities can be quickly modified and customized without grinding. Just enhance your skills with items easily crafted or purchased from the AH or an NPC and head off into battle in a bikini if you like. (FALSE - you have limited respec options, there is a delay between choosing builds, you need to grind the INF for the Enhancments for the other builds)
All character archetypes can craft everything in the game. You can craft rare enhancements, temporary powers or rare costume pieces. Crafting even at the earliest levels can make you good money or supply you with useful items. Unless you like creating 20 swords just to hit a tier and then vendoring them, only to repeat the process over and over and over. (OPINION - Enhancement recipes in CoX pale in comparison to the variety of items in WoW - the prohibitive cost of ingredients for certain recipes would require an investment of time greater than simply building up your skill)
Amazing number and depth of skills ensures that most any group will have the power to complete their mission without worrying about who is a tank, dps, healer, nuker, etc. (OPINION - if the content in WoW were easier, you would not require the trinity - WoW bosses would annihilate CoX characters if they did not have the dedicated roles - WoW is Tank 'n Spank - CoX is Spank 'n Spank)
Run a dual spec for free at level 1 as opposed to waiting for level 40 and paying 1000 gold. (OPINION - level 40 in WoW is halfway there, which would equate to level 25 - the number of options you have up to level 25 in CoX pales in comparison to what you have at level 40 in WoW - there is no need to dual spec as a level one in CoX, since you will literally only have a choice of two different primary powers)
See a field analyst NPC to scale your difficulty settings making the game slightly easier or much more difficult. (FACT - while WoW lets you make some instances harder, they do not give you the choice to make it easier)
More casual friendly - no "second job" raiding. (FALSE - raiding is not a requirement)
Vast amount of player created content. You simply wouldn't have time to play every mission available. Even make your own content – the only major MMO that lets you do that. (OPINION - the vast majority of player created content is garbage - having a vast amount of it would thus not necessarily be a good thing - this would have been a better point had you simply stated the ability to create your own content)
Join a levelling pact with another character and progress at the exact same time whether you are grouped or running solo. (OPINION - part of the reason for leveling is to learn how to play your character - if you are leveling without doing so...fail)
Explore and battle from every sqaure inch of the map including every hill or roof top. (FACT - though CoX is as barren as WoW, you are able to fight along an x-y-z coordinate system)
No boring harvesting/mining – all CoH professions (Day Jobs) provide a buff or temporary ability you can use instead. This is accomplished merely by logging out in a particular area. (MOOT - you have already mentioned grinding and crafting - suggesting that a game is better when you are logged out is rather silly too, no?)
Certain locations occasionally get attacked and must be defended! (FALSE - defending or responding is not required - had you stated you have the option, this still would have only become an OPINION - as it still would not be required)
More than a button masher playable by children, the elderly and the insane – must use some skill and strategy to defeat enemies. (FALSE - requires even less skill and strategy (if that is possible) and has fewer buttons that need to be mashed)
Ultra graphics mode in Praetoria looks better than any maxed out area of Azeroth. (OPINION - reflections, shadows, and water do not solely establish that one looks better than the other)
Can adjust the size of certain body parts of your characters! (MOOT - part of your first item)
Enemies are not just wandering in circles. Catch them in the act of mugging an innocent, breaking into a car or even mop up a shootout between rival gangs. (FALSE - the mobs in CoX do not participate in any more complicated activities than they do in WoW)
I'm sure there are some I left out as I am only at level 22, haven't seen all the zones and have barely touched the villian side. See if you can add more or tell me why I'm wrong - fire away!
So out of your twenty statements, three of them are factual. What about the other 10 that were added, eh?
Originally posted by therain93
21. Collision Detection -- Tanks can tank. (FALSE - tanks are still required to taunt because mobs can use ranged attacks on players with aggro)
22. Combat in the Z-dimension. That's right, aerial combat. (MOOT - the same as 14)
23. Team synergies eliminate the holy trinity. (MOOT - the same as 8)
24. Ragdoll physics. (FACT - the unrealistic realism is more realistic)
24. The market is entirely optional. (FALSE - the AH in WoW is entirely optional as well)
25. The crafting system is entirely optional (the game is balanced around single-origin drops). (FALSE - crafting in WoW is optional)
26. Super Side Kicking! (FACT - the ability to continue playing with friends if they fall behind or you do)
27. Arguably the friendlest community of ANY mmorpg in existence. (OPINION - even stated as an opinion)
28. Devs talk to the playerbase in game, on the forums, and even run their own convention (Hero-Con) besides attending the biggies. (FALSE - no different than WoW)
29. Powers scale as you level -- no buying fireball 1, fireball 2, fireball 3, and..oooooh, wait for it...fireball 4. (FACT - the powers you already have scale with your effective level without requiring you to visit the trainer)
30. (OPINION - on a few levels - preferences in art styles and genres, etc)
Okay, so there were the additional ten statements. Again we had three factual items, bringing us to a total of six factual statements out of thirty. We had five moot points. We had nine opinions. We had eleven false statements.
So how about a closer look at those six factual statements and if they make CoX better than WoW, eh?
Character Customization: Does not make CoX the better game alone. Simply makes CoX the game with better character customization. If the customizations actually mattered, then this would have been green.
Easy Mode: For some, being able to make the game easier will make it a better game. Instead of dumbing down the entire game for everybody, this is actually a good option.
X-Y-Z: Though WoW does have a few areas involving aerial combat, the emphasis they have placed on aerial mounts since Burning Crusade (and selling that My Lil' Phony) leaves one wondering at the overall lack of combat. Three planes gives more of an open world field (which generally is lacking in CoX).
Physics: Technology favors CoX on this one. In WoW, the animations/physics simply play into that Fisher-Price feel of the game - heck, along the lines of Playskool at this point.
Side-Kicking/Etc: One of the problems that the vast majority of MMORPGs suffer from is friends outleveling their friends. CoX does a good job of allowing a person to still learn their character while playing with friends that may have advanced.
Power Scaling: Training new things makes sense. But having to train things you've been doing for the whole level does not, and thus this favors CoX.
All in all though, we have five things that are better in CoX than in WoW...
...but those five things are not sufficient to make CoX better than WoW.
Personally, I think CoX is a better MMORPG than WoW. Not for any of the reasons stated here. I simply do not see WoW as a MMORPG. It is a mmo game lobby. You have 79 levels of tutorial for how to play your character - then you sit around waiting for random battlegrounds, arenas, dungeons, or raids.
Personally, I think WoW is more fun to play than CoX - mainly because of the battlegrounds. I prefer PvP. PvE AI is pathetic, boring and repetitive. If CoX had something akin to WoW's battlegrounds (instanced group v. group as opposed to zerg zones), I would definitely would have spent more time over the years subscribed to CoX as opposed to WoW...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
You need a better hobby than trolling the forums.
But I'll give you one reason.
WOW has 12M subs, COH <100K.
All you need to know actually.
Fallacy: Appeal to popularity.
Just because something is popular, does not mean it is better.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
Accept what? You like CoH. Great I mean the vast majority would think your crazy for your statements but all that really matters is that you like the game. Why have you been picking these dumb fights anyways? You basically saying a game with a very very small population is better than Pretty much everything else out there. Not a very compelling argument.
There was until i13 when the devs decided to destroy their entire pvp community. Tons of feedback was given on why not to implement the changes but they still went through. Hundreds of pvp subcribers (Mainly all of them.) threatened to unsub and permanently quit (Which they did and never came back.) if the changes went through and guess what? The devs just didn't give a flying fuck if they lost all their pvp community because they have wanted to get rid of them since pvp was implemented in CoH (issue 4)..
There was until i13 when the devs decided to destroy their entire pvp community. Tons of feedback was given on why not to implement the changes but they still went through. Hundreds of pvp subcribers (Mainly all of them.) threatened to unsub and permanently quit (Which they did and never came back.) if the changes went through and guess what? The devs just didn't give a flying fuck if they lost all their pvp community because they have wanted to get rid of them since pvp was implemented in CoH (issue 4)..
PVP in every mainstream MMO takes a back seat because it's hard as hell to balance. Check out the forums of every other MMO and you'll hear the same complaints. You are absolutely correct when you say the devs don't want to deal with it. Their main goal is to keep people subbed and keep the majority happy. If 90-95% of players in all mainstream MMOs do PVE and group PVE then guess what?
Obviously whatever happened back in I-13 didn't kill off the game because I-18 just launched concurrently to the expansion Going Rogue and the servers are beyond packed. CoH and WoW are the only two MMOs from 2004 that are still going strong and haven't gone F2P.
If you or anyone else wants to PVP go play Counter Strike, Modern Warfare or some other shooter. Better yet go buy a console.
Both were fun games.. As much as I loved CoH back in the day I tried coming back to it later and found it very lackluster...
WOW kept my interest actually longer.
Right now I am actually giving Champions Online a go, and to me so far it seems superior in every way to CoH/CoV... CoH never capture that whole this area needs a hero feel. In Champions you go into an area and actually get a story to go along with it. That makes you think hmm this place needs a hero.. Also the combat is much more fluid. Character customization blows CoH out the door which I still find amazing... If your wanting a superhero game I would have to say check out Champions Over CoH.. currently I am patching the new update for it.
Still no one has specifically and successfully refuted the points. Perhaps if someone can list 20 reasons why WoW is better than CoH. Then i may accept a truce. But until then my thread will not die!
You need a better hobby than trolling the forums.
But I'll give you one reason.
WOW has 12M subs, COH <100K.
All you need to know actually.
Fallacy: Appeal to popularity.
Just because something is popular, does not mean it is better.
True, if we're talking EVE vs WOW I'll agree with you, but in this case, WOW beats COH any day hands down.
Played WOW for 18 months, COH for 3... do the math.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Both were fun games.. As much as I loved CoH back in the day I tried coming back to it later and found it very lackluster...
WOW kept my interest actually longer.
Right now I am actually giving Champions Online a go, and to me so far it seems superior in every way to CoH/CoV... CoH never capture that whole this area needs a hero feel. In Champions you go into an area and actually get a story to go along with it. That makes you think hmm this place needs a hero.. Also the combat is much more fluid. Character customization blows CoH out the door which I still find amazing... If your wanting a superhero game I would have to say check out Champions Over CoH.. currently I am patching the new update for it.
The character creators are about equal considering the same company designed both games. Actually Praetoria's graphics in the new ultra mode are better than CO. In CoH you get tons of contacts to get your missions from. You also get the random newspaper/police radio missions. Not to mention you can make your own content. There are more varied ways to level than in CO. CO is very linear, has less content and that cash shop is a killer. But hey I thought this was supposed to be a WoW/CoH comparison thread... at least that's what I intended.
Both were fun games.. As much as I loved CoH back in the day I tried coming back to it later and found it very lackluster...
WOW kept my interest actually longer.
Right now I am actually giving Champions Online a go, and to me so far it seems superior in every way to CoH/CoV... CoH never capture that whole this area needs a hero feel. In Champions you go into an area and actually get a story to go along with it. That makes you think hmm this place needs a hero.. Also the combat is much more fluid. Character customization blows CoH out the door which I still find amazing... If your wanting a superhero game I would have to say check out Champions Over CoH.. currently I am patching the new update for it.
The character creators are about equal considering the same company designed both games. Actually Praetoria's graphics in the new ultra mode are better than CO. In CoH you get tons of contacts to get your missions from. You also get the random newspaper/police radio missions. Not to mention you can make your own content. There are more varied ways to level than in CO. CO is very linear, has less content and that cash shop is a killer. But hey I thought this was supposed to be a WoW/CoH comparison thread... at least that's what I intended.
CO costume creator has more options in terms of body parts, and especially in reshaping of the body. However, CoX has cummulative more costume themes since it is an older game. CoX content is more interesting after 40, before that, most people just try to get into a group an run whichever mission they have to obtain more xp. Taskforces are pretty nice but still reuses similar schemes with the exception of the final bosses.
The main advantage(for my taste) of CO over CoH is the combat and power selection. The combat is faster, I went to one of the free weekend of CoH and I was amazed on how slow the combat felt. While in total CoH has more powers, the division in archtypes/powersets limit the heros you can make, while reverting this situation with power proliferation still has not had the potential of CO, that by adding new framework can create a lot of combinations.
Don't mistake my opinion, CoX is a great game and I don't blame the OP for defending it but to be honest it can be compared as a general mmo with WoW with a level of content and features that beat in general sense any other mmo. Keep in mind that if wow doesn't have a feature is not because they can't, it is mainly because after discussion they know what it works best. They laugh at forum rangers like us, because they are impervious to gaming circles, that is the reason that many gamers hate wow, because their hatred is completely meaningless to wow devs.
Comments
If you were to try City of Villains, you can tell that they learned a lot of stuff from when they made Heroes. CoV looks way better in the tutorials and the zones are way better too. Now, if you really waqnt to see what an old game from 2004 is capable of, try out Praetoria in the new expansion. It looks nothing like the Hero starting zones, it looks like a brand new game released this year, it looks quite amazing.
Ok, downloaded the trial, entered Praetoria or whatever its called. I felt like I was playing an older version of Champions Online. I can see the attraction, if that's what you like, but ultimately, DC Universe being around the bend I would rather wait for that and just start that game nice and fresh then play a 5+ year old game.
I still think WoW is the better game, due to the "feel" of the game and the immersion factor. Just my opinion though, no need to get bent out of shape because I don't like your favorite game
It looked sub par to you because you forgot to crank up the settings. Remember it's "Ultra" & 1680 x 1050. I challenge you to translate your "feel" & "immersion" into solid factual reasons. You can't because the 30 points found in the first 2 posts can't be refuted.If you were to try City of Villains, you can tell that they learned a lot of stuff from when they made Heroes. CoV looks way better in the tutorials and the zones are way better too. Now, if you really waqnt to see what an old game from 2004 is capable of, try out Praetoria in the new expansion. It looks nothing like the Hero starting zones, it looks like a brand new game released this year, it looks quite amazing.
Ok, downloaded the trial, entered Praetoria or whatever its called. I felt like I was playing an older version of Champions Online. I can see the attraction, if that's what you like, but ultimately, DC Universe being around the bend I would rather wait for that and just start that game nice and fresh then play a 5+ year old game.
I still think WoW is the better game, due to the "feel" of the game and the immersion factor. Just my opinion though, no need to get bent out of shape because I don't like your favorite game
It looked sub par to you because you forgot to crank up the settings. Remember it's "Ultra" & 1680 x 1050. I challenge you to translate your "feel" & "immersion" into solid factual reasons. You can't because the 30 points found in the first 2 posts can't be refuted.
I didn't forget that at all. I cranked it up as high as possible and played on 1920x1080 resolution. The graphics are not the ONLY aspect to immersion in the good MMOs. Sound, lighting, environment changes during play and "feel" as in running around, turning, looking starting combat, flow of combat all add up to immersion. The 30 points talk about mechanics. Every game has different mechanics. What sets these MMORPGs apart is the "world" feel. This feels like a game not a world. Therefore, for me at least, it fails. I had the same problem with Champions Online.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
"Ultra" is not really that ultra in comparison to other games. It is hard to call it "Ultra" in regard to CoX itself. Better? Yes. Ultra? Not so much.
Dismissing "feel" and "immersion" for "solid factual reasons" is stupid. There is no getting around that. It is stupid.
Miltary rations vs. burger n' fries. Which do you think the average person wants?
CoX does feel clunky in comparison to WoW and other games. The world looks like it has not been finished.
All but one or two of your "magic" points have been refuted...easily.
This thread is so sad...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Only point that matters is your own. If it is better in your opinion, that's great ...for YOU. I believe other games...numerous other games...are better than CoH. That is my opinion, and since I'm the one who has to play my own game, then that is really all that matters.
I am so happy for you that you think your game is best. That means you enjoy it. However, I get so sick of hearing crap about this game or that game being better than any other game. It's all a matter of personal taste and selection. There is no way to make a blanket, overwhelming statement that a game (in a completely different genre, by the way) is better than every game in said other genre.
It's apples to oranges. And to use that as an example...let's say that one person says apples are so much better than oranges because...
1. they come in multiple colors. oranges only come in orange
2. they have a cool stem you can play a game with
3. they have a case around the seeds so you can easily avoid them
4. you can eat the outside skin on an apple
etc.
Going even further, it's like saying brocolli is better than oranges, since they aren't the same "genre."
Notice the points above are factual and true, but to the person that likes oranges, those points don't matter. Saying something is "Better" or "Best" is an opinion, no matter how many facts you throw at it.
Dev
Then stop coming to other games' forums and stick to your game's forums. Then you won't hear praises for games that you don't like. Case solved.
Accept what? You like CoH. Great I mean the vast majority would think your crazy for your statements but all that really matters is that you like the game. Why have you been picking these dumb fights anyways? You basically saying a game with a very very small population is better than Pretty much everything else out there. Not a very compelling argument.
Im sorry noone needs to refute anything for you, everyone likes there own game for there own reasons. I have to ask myself why you are on this forum trying to get recognition for your game instead of playing it if it is that great though.
But becasue you keep pestering for it i will tell you WHY i think wow is a much better game.
Seamless world, you can walk/fly from one end of the continent to the other without a loading screen. (noinstances where your in a room on your own that looks just like the last one you was on)
The quests/lore are well writen. (compered to the repetitivness of CoX missions they are 100 times better)
No dungeans look the same and all have there own story. (when going on a mission in CoX you can be pretty sure you will find yourself in some bland looking office)
Class customisation.
The way the char interacts with the world and combat, very flued. (CoX seems very clunky to me)
The world and its verity. (CoX just seemed very drab and uninspired)
The chars in the world.
Raids.
END GAME! (CoX does not have it)
The only thing i would agree with on your list in char customisation, the rest is a very drab, repetitive game with no deapth.
But like most people bar you seem to understand is we all like diffrent things, its what makes life so veried.
You need a better hobby than trolling the forums.
But I'll give you one reason.
WOW has 12M subs, COH <100K.</p>
All you need to know actually.
Is it 10.5, 11 or 12 million? It keeps changing depending on the posts you read. Either way, 80% of those are Chinese. I wonder if they care whether or not they look the same as everyone else in Ironforge. Before I forget:31. No Chinese gold farmers
32. No reliance on gear score. Be happily accepted into any supergroup (guild)
33. Vast number of enemy types. Not just recolored wolves, deer and boars.
Gotta run. Someone continue the list... or refute them.
I appreciate the insult. Really, I do, but I'm on my game's forum. I play LOTS of games. It happens on all game forums, and I don't understand why people argue about opinion as if it's fact. I was merely making an illustrative point (using the apples to oranges example) that his "facts" don't automatically make his or any other game better than another one. The words better, worse, best, etc. are opinions and not at all based on any fact, except in the mind of the person it matters to. ever. Wasn't complaining so much as observing. The OP is more than welcome to his opinion, as are the responders, but that's the point. It's their opinion of what game is better. It's not fact. So thanks for the invite, I sure will stick to my game forums. All of them. Have a nice day.
Dev
You do realise that the only reason there is no gold farmers is becasue its not worth there while becasue the game just doesnt have the players or the econony.
If you thought that was an insult then you must not read these forums at all.
There is not a need to do so, but here we go again, eh?
So out of your twenty statements, three of them are factual. What about the other 10 that were added, eh?
Okay, so there were the additional ten statements. Again we had three factual items, bringing us to a total of six factual statements out of thirty. We had five moot points. We had nine opinions. We had eleven false statements.
So how about a closer look at those six factual statements and if they make CoX better than WoW, eh?
Character Customization: Does not make CoX the better game alone. Simply makes CoX the game with better character customization. If the customizations actually mattered, then this would have been green.
Easy Mode: For some, being able to make the game easier will make it a better game. Instead of dumbing down the entire game for everybody, this is actually a good option.
X-Y-Z: Though WoW does have a few areas involving aerial combat, the emphasis they have placed on aerial mounts since Burning Crusade (and selling that My Lil' Phony) leaves one wondering at the overall lack of combat. Three planes gives more of an open world field (which generally is lacking in CoX).
Physics: Technology favors CoX on this one. In WoW, the animations/physics simply play into that Fisher-Price feel of the game - heck, along the lines of Playskool at this point.
Side-Kicking/Etc: One of the problems that the vast majority of MMORPGs suffer from is friends outleveling their friends. CoX does a good job of allowing a person to still learn their character while playing with friends that may have advanced.
Power Scaling: Training new things makes sense. But having to train things you've been doing for the whole level does not, and thus this favors CoX.
All in all though, we have five things that are better in CoX than in WoW...
...but those five things are not sufficient to make CoX better than WoW.
Personally, I think CoX is a better MMORPG than WoW. Not for any of the reasons stated here. I simply do not see WoW as a MMORPG. It is a mmo game lobby. You have 79 levels of tutorial for how to play your character - then you sit around waiting for random battlegrounds, arenas, dungeons, or raids.
Personally, I think WoW is more fun to play than CoX - mainly because of the battlegrounds. I prefer PvP. PvE AI is pathetic, boring and repetitive. If CoX had something akin to WoW's battlegrounds (instanced group v. group as opposed to zerg zones), I would definitely would have spent more time over the years subscribed to CoX as opposed to WoW...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Is there PvP in CoH/CoV yet ?
Fallacy: Appeal to popularity.
Just because something is popular, does not mean it is better.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html
There was until i13 when the devs decided to destroy their entire pvp community. Tons of feedback was given on why not to implement the changes but they still went through. Hundreds of pvp subcribers (Mainly all of them.) threatened to unsub and permanently quit (Which they did and never came back.) if the changes went through and guess what? The devs just didn't give a flying fuck if they lost all their pvp community because they have wanted to get rid of them since pvp was implemented in CoH (issue 4)..
PVP in every mainstream MMO takes a back seat because it's hard as hell to balance. Check out the forums of every other MMO and you'll hear the same complaints. You are absolutely correct when you say the devs don't want to deal with it. Their main goal is to keep people subbed and keep the majority happy. If 90-95% of players in all mainstream MMOs do PVE and group PVE then guess what?
Obviously whatever happened back in I-13 didn't kill off the game because I-18 just launched concurrently to the expansion Going Rogue and the servers are beyond packed. CoH and WoW are the only two MMOs from 2004 that are still going strong and haven't gone F2P.
If you or anyone else wants to PVP go play Counter Strike, Modern Warfare or some other shooter. Better yet go buy a console.
Both were fun games.. As much as I loved CoH back in the day I tried coming back to it later and found it very lackluster...
WOW kept my interest actually longer.
Right now I am actually giving Champions Online a go, and to me so far it seems superior in every way to CoH/CoV... CoH never capture that whole this area needs a hero feel. In Champions you go into an area and actually get a story to go along with it. That makes you think hmm this place needs a hero.. Also the combat is much more fluid. Character customization blows CoH out the door which I still find amazing... If your wanting a superhero game I would have to say check out Champions Over CoH.. currently I am patching the new update for it.
True, if we're talking EVE vs WOW I'll agree with you, but in this case, WOW beats COH any day hands down.
Played WOW for 18 months, COH for 3... do the math.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
CoH is TERRIBLE!!! This game is so bad its not even funny. Thats why no ones plays it lol.
The character creators are about equal considering the same company designed both games. Actually Praetoria's graphics in the new ultra mode are better than CO. In CoH you get tons of contacts to get your missions from. You also get the random newspaper/police radio missions. Not to mention you can make your own content. There are more varied ways to level than in CO. CO is very linear, has less content and that cash shop is a killer. But hey I thought this was supposed to be a WoW/CoH comparison thread... at least that's what I intended.
You won't know until you try the game!
CO costume creator has more options in terms of body parts, and especially in reshaping of the body. However, CoX has cummulative more costume themes since it is an older game. CoX content is more interesting after 40, before that, most people just try to get into a group an run whichever mission they have to obtain more xp. Taskforces are pretty nice but still reuses similar schemes with the exception of the final bosses.
The main advantage(for my taste) of CO over CoH is the combat and power selection. The combat is faster, I went to one of the free weekend of CoH and I was amazed on how slow the combat felt. While in total CoH has more powers, the division in archtypes/powersets limit the heros you can make, while reverting this situation with power proliferation still has not had the potential of CO, that by adding new framework can create a lot of combinations.
Don't mistake my opinion, CoX is a great game and I don't blame the OP for defending it but to be honest it can be compared as a general mmo with WoW with a level of content and features that beat in general sense any other mmo. Keep in mind that if wow doesn't have a feature is not because they can't, it is mainly because after discussion they know what it works best. They laugh at forum rangers like us, because they are impervious to gaming circles, that is the reason that many gamers hate wow, because their hatred is completely meaningless to wow devs.