What i find ironic i guess with the whole thing is that WoW when it first started was buggy as hell. It s just that there was not much besides EQ around at the time. Now MMO's arent given half the time for growth. if the game hasnt succeeding in 6mths or shorter its dead and fail. also i find that the community in general has become a lot pickier. Companies can no longer release a product with bugs still there. they have to get it as close to perfection as they can through beta before release. If the game has a bug it becomes fail as well. Then of course you have to deal with fanboi's and the haters/trolls. this can be from anyone and anything regardless of history, from the silliest complaint in that the UI is green the game is fail. i just think these are some of the reasons why mmo's find it hard to get off the ground these days. IMO
It is true that blizz has huge marketing campaigns. However, as it has been stated before, you can't compare it to McD because the prices of a fast food vs a quality restaurant vary. If Mc started selling it's, I don't know, 10$ menu for 50$, they would stop being so popular. On the other hand wow has exactly the same sub price other mmo's have. Yes it is more accessible and easier then let's say eve, which is a quality game also, but the prices are the same, or you could say wow is actually more expensive since eve gives expansions for free.
First of all, have you ever thought that maybe the ones that play wow don't want some of the features you are listing? WoW had open world raid bosses, but they abandoned that idea. Honestly I don't know why, but I guess people didn't like it.
Secondly, saying a bathroom is a feature of a house is stupid. It's a necessity. To follow your analogy it would mean wow not having something like mobs on a map, or NPCs in a city, which isn't the case.
They abandoned world bosses because, while very fun for a small portion of the playerbase, it went against their "Everyone should have the option to attempt all content" philosophy. That doesn't mean everyone should actually be able to down every boss in the game in a small timeframe, but with world bosses only one or two guilds on each server ever even had a chance at the global bosses.
@O.P., don't bother discussing World of Warcraft on this site, it's not worth it. There are plenty of other MMORPG websites out there where you can actually discuss the pros and cons of different titles and involve Blizzard in the mix. That said, you're an idiot if you think anyone else even had a chance to complete with Blizzard in terms of on scope and polish.
As much as I like WoW, I'm not blind enough to think that they produce some of the highest quality content because they are better designers or developers. They produce that amount of polished content because their budget is insane compared to other developers. Even when WoW first launched (and it wasn't nearly the head-and-shoulders above other products that it is today), the game had a pre-launch development cycle unseen in the industry.
Blizzard doesn't get to say "When it's done" because they are better people, they get to say "When it's done" because they are one of the incredibly few development houses who serves as their own publisher - and one of a handful who has the bankroll to pouring time into a product until it's close to right.
Be skeptical about their next MMORPG, but go into it knowing that no other MMO in the history of gaming will have been released with that amount of man hours behind it. The new MMORPG still is not publicly announced and it already has more man hours invested in development than many awesome-idea MMO's have at launch.
What i find ironic i guess with the whole thing is that WoW when it first started was buggy as hell. It s just that there was not much besides EQ around at the time. Now MMO's arent given half the time for growth. if the game hasnt succeeding in 6mths or shorter its dead and fail. also i find that the community in general has become a lot pickier. Companies can no longer release a product with bugs still there. they have to get it as close to perfection as they can through beta before release. If the game has a bug it becomes fail as well. Then of course you have to deal with fanboi's and the haters/trolls. this can be from anyone and anything regardless of history, from the silliest complaint in that the UI is green the game is fail. i just think these are some of the reasons why mmo's find it hard to get off the ground these days. IMO
The 'buggy as hell' thing is very subjective. I started playing WoW right on release and except for some annoying loot bugs and one really annoying bugged copper node it was very smooth ride. However, the MMORPG I played before that was SWG and that game had bugs. Heck, my first (and still favourite) MMORPG had a nasty memory leak that caused my computer to lock up after I changed zones 3 times so I would reboot preemptively if I was traveling a lot. As an 'early adopter' I was used to dealing with bugs and glitches and working around them to get to the good parts of MMORPGs. With WoW I did not have to deal with that almost at all so the game was nirvana for me.
I would like to note that I was on a 'good' server. I heard stories of 'bad' servers that would break all the time and players there would have a different experience.
WoW's marketing strategy was word of mouth. . Like when your friend comes up to you and says, 'dude! you've got to see this movie! No! Stop what you are doing and go see it now!' . That kind of word of mouth marketing. . Yes, 3 years after launch blizz ran some commercials on TV. . WoW experienced explosive growth that caused some problems for customers. Log in queues, etc. They didn't want more customers but people kept showing up. Hard to turn them away. . The biggest source of advertising was EQ1, SWG, DAoC /general chats. EQ1 lost 250,000 subs to WoW in about 3 months time. SWG was losing 10,000 subs a month to WoW. . No wonder why the market looks like it does today.
Opinions Opinions and more Opinions.. LOL In my opinion WoW is a "B" quality game.. Just like GM is a "B" quality vehicle.. Features are features and are part of EVERY rating process of consumer products and service.. Tell me how you would rate a car if it came with NO radio, NO power steering, NO power windows, NO Air Conditioning.. Those are only features, and regardless how well it runs, it will take a HIT in ratings because it lacks basic features we all expect in our vehicles.. WoW = McDonalds .. accept it and love it.. It is what it is...
I guess that means that all motorcycles are shit low quality products, because YOU prefer fully loaded sedans, right?
You fail to distinguish your personal preferences for a game and a games level of quality in the features it offers.
Let me give you an example that is both objective and subjective without letting one interfer with the other.
I do not enjoy city of heroes. I found it shallow, repeatitive and lacking engaging features for what I wanted in an mmo. Very little of the game appealed to my interests.
However, I do recognize it for having quality. What it sets out to do it does extremely well. I can respect the smoothness and functionality that the game does offer. The diversity of character creation and many other features.
So while I do not personally enjoy the game I do recognize certain aspects of it as being quality. Just to put things on a level you seem comfortable with I will use an analogy.
Just because I prefer fruits that can be eaten with their skin on does not mean that fruits which require peeling are low quality. It just means I prefer apples and grapes to banannas and oranges.
I doubt, but hope you will see the difference between the two.
Here is what I think set wow apart from the rest of the market and why other game designers have not put up serious competition yet.
1) Blizzard designed wow to be fun from the ground up. Every feature was questioned as to the fun factor. If it wasn't fun, they fixed it or removed it.
2) Blizzard identified and addressed things that many people found problematic in mmos and they designed around those problems.
3) Blizzard did not release the game until it was as ready as they could possibly make it
While those 3 points sound like common sense and are rather broad in scope I personally have found those to be the key factors that most other game designers did not follow. All three of those points relate to the polish level of wow in comparison to the rest of the market.
That isn't something that other companies can not reproduce, but it seems to be something they are unwilling to do. To many companies are emulating wow, when they should be emulating blizzard.
Before WoW the market place was about 700k ~ 1.2 million. When the internet became more accescable and basically free... Blizzard saw an oppertunity to make a happy meal in a market that didn't exisis before... children + online games.
The mmo market was roughly 7 million players at the release of wow. LINK
As for a sampling of wow being dominated by kids I offer you the following Nielson study showing wow dominated by players 25-54 years of age. LINK
Not to mention their advertising campaigns almost completely center around the use of 1980's television, mucis and movie icons. Again targeting adults.
You can of course counter with more discussions of hamburgers if you like.
That said, you're an idiot if you think anyone else even had a chance to complete with Blizzard in terms of on scope and polish.
?
Of course people had a chance, and will do in the future. Your insults have no bearing on this.
Something better will come along at some stage.
The question is when, and why - despite all the available resources and apparently ready market - it has taken so long.
Some people are happy to debate this every so often, some resort to name-calling. So be it.
They have a chance to compete in overall product "fun" factor - yea. But that's not what this thread is about, it's specifically about scope.
You say "despite all the available resources," but no single project has come close to World of Warcraft in financing or development hours. It's simply unfair to expect anyone to compete with World of Warcraft in terms of scope and polish with a fraction of the resources.
FFXIV and SW:TOR are the first two games since the launch of WoW who even come close; we'll have to wait and see how they do. FFXIV isn't directly competing with WoW or TOR - it's a very different product. TOR is closer to competing with WoW, but it's still appealing to a different crowd as well.
If this thread was about "why has no-one made a game which could compete with WoW in terms of entertaining me personally" then yes, every MMO ever launched has had a chance to do just that. Most of the major flops are highly attributable to OVER-scoping the design of a project and UNDER-estimating the development resources required to release that product in a relatively finished and polished state. A lot of games would benefit tremendously from doing less, but doing it better.
But again, this thread is about competing in terms of scope - which nobody has really had a chance to do. Trying to argue otherwise just makes it seem like you lack the ability to connect what goes into a project with what comes out of a studio.
Personally, I'm waiting to get some hands-on time with DCU - do I expect it to compete with WoW in terms of scope? Of course not, but that doesn't mean I'm not hopeful that it could be a more entertaining game for me, personally.
Opinions Opinions and more Opinions.. LOL In my opinion WoW is a "B" quality game.. Just like GM is a "B" quality vehicle.. Features are features and are part of EVERY rating process of consumer products and service.. Tell me how you would rate a car if it came with NO radio, NO power steering, NO power windows, NO Air Conditioning.. Those are only features, and regardless how well it runs, it will take a HIT in ratings because it lacks basic features we all expect in our vehicles.. WoW = McDonalds .. accept it and love it.. It is what it is...
I guess that means that all motorcycles are shit low quality products, because YOU prefer fully loaded sedans, right? That is like comparing WoW against real life golf.. apples to apples my friend.. lol
You fail to distinguish your personal preferences for a game and a games level of quality in the features it offers. I have many times, you and others just choose to ignore my issues with WoW.. That is your problem, not mine
Let me give you an example that is both objective and subjective without letting one interfer with the other.
I do not enjoy city of heroes. I found it shallow, repeatitive and lacking engaging features for what I wanted in an mmo. Very little of the game appealed to my interests. Sorta like WoW's end game is to me.. and?
However, I do recognize it for having quality. What it sets out to do it does extremely well. Based on YOUR subjective list.. not mine.. again we are back to opinions.. everyone has one I can respect the smoothness and functionality that the game does offer. The diversity of character creation and many other features.
So while I do not personally enjoy the game I do recognize certain aspects of it as being quality. NO.. what you are saying is that you respect the quality of some of the features they offer.. Judging a product one area at a time does not represent the whole.. Just to put things on a level you seem comfortable with I will use an analogy.
Just because I prefer fruits that can be eaten with their skin on does not mean that fruits which require peeling are low quality. It just means I prefer apples and grapes to banannas and oranges.
I doubt, but hope you will see the difference between the two. I think what you and others should do is look how Hotels are rated for example.. At least that is how I'm viewing it.. WoW to me is a very clean, very polished 4 star Holiday Inn.. However it doesn't have the features and amenities to become a 5 star game.. It's just that simple.. Same with McDonalds.. It could be spotless, perfectly clean, not ONE single mark against it by the health board, but it will only be a good quality 2 star restraunt.. It lacks the features to ever grow beyond that regardless.. When WoW adds in some amenities like "open:" raids, meaningful PvP, stronger crafting economy and player housing.. THEN I will say they are a "Quality" game aka 5 stars..
IMO there are quite a few 4 star games out there,, each with a different menu and atmosphere ..
Before WoW the market place was about 700k ~ 1.2 million. When the internet became more accescable and basically free... Blizzard saw an oppertunity to make a happy meal in a market that didn't exisis before... children + online games.
The mmo market was roughly 7 million players at the release of wow. LINK
As for a sampling of wow being dominated by kids I offer you the following Nielson study showing wow dominated by players 25-54 years of age. LINK
Not to mention their advertising campaigns almost completely center around the use of 1980's television, mucis and movie icons. Again targeting adults.
You can of course counter with more discussions of hamburgers if you like.
NO, the MMO market had roughly 7 million subs... not players.
I was subing Everquest, DAOC, EQ2 and EVE online (all at the same time) when WoW was released. I think nearly everyone in my 300 person guild had multiple subs, Heck I had 3 EQ accounts alone.
But, before you get snotty with me, perhaps you should study this a little more. You'll find I know a thing or two kid. Try MMOGCHART.com I contributed to that site back in the day.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
WOW is not the best just because it has the most subs, that a personal opinion that is all... The reason WOW has more subs its simple, all ages can play it and play it well as its so easy to play and with the addons ist a no brainer.
Most hardcore players will not like WOW as much as they want a challenge, I played WOW for 5yrs and it is to easy its a joke now.. I also have played every P2P on the market.. I like every game for different reasons..
If anyone says WOW has good PVP then you have no idea what PVP is, WOW PVP is geared based nothing more, if a level 5 can beat a level 80 then it wouldnt be.. Period. I remember playing Asheron call 1 when I was level 80 I could take out 2 or 3 level 126's no problem, it was skill based thats true PVP.
They are trying to make more skilled based PVP, the problem is some of todays gamers do not liek taking risks with full loot PVP there to carebear for it and whine.. Thats a fact.
WOW's pve was the best thing they had going for them the crafting was just basic and boring.. People talk about end game, its an MMO you do not need an end game... I like games that go ,on and on and on.
I like the fact some games like Mortal online are taking chances with crafting and making it so not everyone can be a crafter it takes skill more games need to do this...I wish MO was better than it is but hoping one day it is better.. But the crafting a side is one of the better I have seen.
People say end game because of WOW, when I played Asheron call you had low level, mid level and higher level dungeons, items to quest.. and it took someone who knew what they where doing to lead quests...
Those take time to do and experince, where WOW quests are hand holding , any 5yr can do them there a joke now even more so and come xpansion you won;t even have to turn them in its a joke.
If I wanna quest I want a challenge not this handholding , Todays gamers like easy , as they are high on drugs, lazy or just stupid that is the number 1 reason why WOW is the number 1 game.
The second reason is because they are good at what people want more so , because they know what people are like.
They also advertise like no other which is smart.
I wish a company like Blizzard ran an indie then it would be a great game, but it would never happen as they do not haqve them kind of good ideas and they would rather make a money maker than a great game that, Hardcore gamers, vets would like.
I perfer indie's over and big company any day of the week, also I like the smaller to mid size community as everyone know one another, not WOW where its all l33t talk and racism, swearing and more... WOW is for little 5yr old brats ..
WOW used to be a fun game before its first expansion then they ruined it..
WoW is an alright game. The cartoony graphics and the community are a big turn off, though. I played for about a year. The quests were interesting (I'm one of those peeps who actually read the quests), but just not on par with LotRO. I did a few of the dungeons and was mildly amused. The boss fights were interesting. I think the gear score thing is a bit ridiculous.
In my opinion there are better games on the market with better content, but WoW does what it does well. It's just not for me.
WOW is not the best just because it has the most subs, that a personal opinion that is all... The reason WOW has more subs its simple, all ages can play it and play it well as its so easy to play and with the addons ist a no brainer.
Most hardcore players will not like WOW as much as they want a challenge, I played WOW for 5yrs and it is to easy its a joke now.. I also have played every P2P on the market.. I like every game for different reasons..
If anyone says WOW has good PVP then you have no idea what PVP is, WOW PVP is geared based nothing more, if a level 5 can beat a level 80 then it wouldnt be.. Period. I remember playing Asheron call 1 when I was level 80 I could take out 2 or 3 level 126's no problem, it was skill based thats true PVP.
They are trying to make more skilled based PVP, the problem is some of todays gamers do not liek taking risks with full loot PVP there to carebear for it and whine.. Thats a fact.
WOW's pve was the best thing they had going for them the crafting was just basic and boring.. People talk about end game, its an MMO you do not need an end game... I like games that go ,on and on and on.
I like the fact some games like Mortal online are taking chances with crafting and making it so not everyone can be a crafter it takes skill more games need to do this...I wish MO was better than it is but hoping one day it is better.. But the crafting a side is one of the better I have seen.
People say end game because of WOW, when I played Asheron call you had low level, mid level and higher level dungeons, items to quest.. and it took someone who knew what they where doing to lead quests...
Those take time to do and experince, where WOW quests are hand holding , any 5yr can do them there a joke now even more so and come xpansion you won;t even have to turn them in its a joke.
If I wanna quest I want a challenge not this handholding , Todays gamers like easy , as they are high on drugs, lazy or just stupid that is the number 1 reason why WOW is the number 1 game.
The second reason is because they are good at what people want more so , because they know what people are like.
They also advertise like no other which is smart.
I wish a company like Blizzard ran an indie then it would be a great game, but it would never happen as they do not haqve them kind of good ideas and they would rather make a money maker than a great game that, Hardcore gamers, vets would like.
I perfer indie's over and big company any day of the week, also I like the smaller to mid size community as everyone know one another, not WOW where its all l33t talk and racism, swearing and more... WOW is for little 5yr old brats ..
WOW used to be a fun game before its first expansion then they ruined it..
So much comedy!! lol
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
There are plenty of games out there I like better than wow. WoW has made it very easy to get into that game from the start and plenty of people play it so their friends play it, it is always on TV all the time.
That's the reason why wow remains successfull. Sure they got plenty of good things in that game, and its convienent. I prefered AION before they banned my account , tbh.
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
Because WoW Replicated every good MMO and put all the pros from them into one.
I understand that WoW's commercial success was linked to other factors than pure game design quality, but still - many have tried, and no-one has even come close. Why?
WoW commercials didn't even start up mainstream that i know of until it already had like 8 million subs.
The nearest misses to my mind were Warhammer Online (which just didn't pass muster, despite potential, and annoyed everyone madly) and Age of Conan (which made something of a comeback after a disastrous start, but is still a far cry.) Personally, I would also save a shout out for DDO (as an interesting experiment) LORTO (for fan service and music) and Chronicles of Spellborn for a truly unique world (rip). There are a couple of others.
But let's face it. Nothing has come close to replicating what WoW did; and its been six years. There are a couple of potentials on the horizon, but until they appear... meh.
My question is why? What is wrong here?
Nothings wrong. A sucessful MMO is 30k-400k members. Problem is people think More is better and its not. More people leads to a gimp game thats made for the IQ of a 2 year old. WoW is the reason F2P is such a big thing now aswell. Which is the worst thing that has happened in MMO's. (reason i say WoW is reason to F2P is because no one could compete so they made F2P wit RMT so they could compete and make profits off 30k+ worth of subs.)
Six years, which have seen some of the greatest advances in video gaming since the field began. Six years of stupendous amounts of money. Six years of expectation, goodwill, desire, backing, technical capacity - everything you could possibly have wanted. Everything. And yet, nothing touches on WoW, by now an old game.
It is a fascinating phenomenon. Worthy of a PhD.
Now i know your just trolling for Flames, nothing in that paragraph showed any sign of intelligence.
What on earth is so hard about making a good MMO; and why are Blizzard the only wizards who have been able really to capitalise on the genre's awesome potential?
WoW maybe the coke of the mmo world right now but a Pepsi will come along just wait.
All I can say is, gad. I don't want to be 60 before the next one comes along. I had really thought we would have seen a new contender by now.
Why do you care you spose to be having a blast with WoW, why do you need another one? You have your quests, your exploration, all your pvp=pve crap WTF do you care if there is another WoW, your having fun right????!!!!!
Then you really must be hungry and tired with NOTHING but 4 star hotels and 2 star restaurants around! What a retarded analogy. If all THEME PARK mmos share basic qualities:
Quest
Raids
PvP
Persistant world
Mount/pet system
Talent system
Crafting
Player Economy (Trading/AH/)
And some offer additional (SANDBOX-STANDARD) perks:
Player housing (LoTRO, UO, SWG)
Contested PvP areas (Aion Abyss forts)
Full player economy (EvE)
Non Instance raids (DAoC)
You cannot fault WoW for being a car (THEME PARK mmo) when you really want a dirt bike (SANDBOX mmo). And with that I mean you can do more with a dirt bike than a car, even though you have less given to you initially. Just like a sandbox mmo compared to the more bells and whistles of a theme park mmo.
If you're going to compare cars to cars then judge them on that merit. (THEME PARK vs. THEME PARK)
If you're going to judge dirt bikes with other dirt bikes then name another dirt bike (SANDBOX mmo).
But if you're going to refuse to judge a car cause it don't look like a dirt bike then you're the one being silly.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Well there you go.. WoW is a childrens themepark and why it cant' have player and guild housing, or meaningful PvP, or a strong crafting economy.. or open raids.. LOL
Thank you Ramon for clearing it all up for us.. and double thanks for the laugh
WoW is an alright game. The cartoony graphics and the community are a big turn off, though. I played for about a year. The quests were interesting (I'm one of those peeps who actually read the quests), but just not on par with LotRO. I did a few of the dungeons and was mildly amused. The boss fights were interesting. I think the gear score thing is a bit ridiculous.
In my opinion there are better games on the market with better content, but WoW does what it does well. It's just not for me.
I agree, LOTRO, as far as content and graphics go, is superior to a lot of games. What bugs me is why folks have to use WoW as the benchmark for all MMOs out there. Every MMO has its market and very few if any are even trying to compete with WoW or be a "WoW Killer".
If a games target market sustains enough profit to warrant the financial effort it will succeed regardless of how many subs WoW may have. If they want more profit, just make more games. Few folks playing WoW play it exclusively anyway, at least for very long. If all games were like WoW the gaming industry would fall flat on its face.
Wow was many peoples' first mmorpg. Your first mmorpg is like the girl you lose your virginity to. You will always have an attachment. End of story. That is why.
WOW is not the best just because it has the most subs, that a personal opinion that is all... The reason WOW has more subs its simple, all ages can play it and play it well as its so easy to play and with the addons ist a no brainer.
Most hardcore players will not like WOW as much as they want a challenge, I played WOW for 5yrs and it is to easy its a joke now.. I also have played every P2P on the market.. I like every game for different reasons..
Good for you.
If anyone says WOW has good PVP then you have no idea what PVP is, WOW PVP is geared based nothing more, if a level 5 can beat a level 80 then it wouldnt be.. Period. I remember playing Asheron call 1 when I was level 80 I could take out 2 or 3 level 126's no problem, it was skill based thats true PVP.
You have no idea what you're talking about. WoW's PvP is no more gear based than a lot of games. A good WoW player can beat multiple players with better gear just like a good PvPer in any other game can. If you think WoW's PVP is so easy, try winning in the arenas. Even if you have the best gear, I would bet a lot of money you would still get your ass royally handed to you on a regular basis.
They are trying to make more skilled based PVP, the problem is some of todays gamers do not liek taking risks with full loot PVP there to carebear for it and whine.. Thats a fact.
You are right about this. That is why Blizzard decided not to alienate the majority of their player base by subjecting them to full-loot PvP. While many (including myself) might enjoy full-loot PvP, there aren't enough of us to make a successful game. Just look at Darkfall and Mortal Online. EVE is a different beast since it has high security space that a large portion of the player base never leaves...
WOW's pve was the best thing they had going for them the crafting was just basic and boring.. People talk about end game, its an MMO you do not need an end game... I like games that go ,on and on and on.
Oh, sort of like an asian grinder? Sorry, but most Western players don't like to grind for eternity. Blizzard just understands its players better than any other company. The rest of you who enjoy endless grinding can go play one of those Korean games.
I like the fact some games like Mortal online are taking chances with crafting and making it so not everyone can be a crafter it takes skill more games need to do this...I wish MO was better than it is but hoping one day it is better.. But the crafting a side is one of the better I have seen.
What's your point? I am also glad Mortal Online is trying a more intricate crafting system, but what does that have to do with WoW? MO is a sandbox, WoW is a themepark. They are different sub-genres of MMOs. Obviously themeparks aren't going to focus as heavily on crafting...
People say end game because of WOW, when I played Asheron call you had low level, mid level and higher level dungeons, items to quest.. and it took someone who knew what they where doing to lead quests...
So I suppose you are saying that it doesn't take someone who knows what they are doung to lead raids? Have you ever even tried some of the harder raids in WOW? If you don't know what you are doing, you have no chance of completing some of them...
Those take time to do and experince, where WOW quests are hand holding , any 5yr can do them there a joke now even more so and come xpansion you won;t even have to turn them in its a joke.
Some of WOW's quests may be simple, but there are 1000000000 of them and pretty much all of them are better quality than you find in most other games.
If I wanna quest I want a challenge not this handholding , Todays gamers like easy , as they are high on drugs, lazy or just stupid that is the number 1 reason why WOW is the number 1 game.
Ahh... so everyone who likes WOW is an idiot or high on drugs. I've always wondered...
The second reason is because they are good at what people want more so , because they know what people are like.
Because clearly game companies should focus on what people don't want... or what only the hardcore losers want and nothing else. Why don't more companies get that!?
They also advertise like no other which is smart.
I wish a company like Blizzard ran an indie then it would be a great game, but it would never happen as they do not haqve them kind of good ideas and they would rather make a money maker than a great game that, Hardcore gamers, vets would like.
I think Blizzard is more focused on making their games fun and accessible first. If appeasing the hardcore vet crowd was their goal, their games would fail...
I perfer indie's over and big company any day of the week, also I like the smaller to mid size community as everyone know one another, not WOW where its all l33t talk and racism, swearing and more... WOW is for little 5yr old brats ..
Thats great for you. I find it ironic that you are commenting about the inappropriate and inconsiderate behavior of WOW players, yet you call all of them idiots, drug addicts and 5 year old brats... very interesting.
WOW used to be a fun game before its first expansion then they ruined it..
I suddenly enjoy the game more knowing you are no longer playing it. Thanks!
I doubt, but hope you will see the difference between the two. I think what you and others should do is look how Hotels are rated for example.. At least that is how I'm viewing it.. WoW to me is a very clean, very polished 4 star Holiday Inn.. However it doesn't have the features and amenities to become a 5 star game.. It's just that simple.. Same with McDonalds.. It could be spotless, perfectly clean, not ONE single mark against it by the health board, but it will only be a good quality 2 star restraunt.. It lacks the features to ever grow beyond that regardless.. When WoW adds in some amenities like "open:" raids, meaningful PvP, stronger crafting economy and player housing.. THEN I will say they are a "Quality" game aka 5 stars..
IMO there are quite a few 4 star games out there,, each with a different menu and atmosphere ..
I clipped most of the quote just for space issues.
I am fine that wow does not have features you prefer and as a result you don't like the game. No one is telling you that your opinion on that is wrong. However you are complaining that a themepark (apples) game does not have sandbox (orange) style features and concluding that as a result it lacks quality. A game cannot cater to every playstyle and should be judged on what it sets out to do, not what it isn't.
For all your talk about comparing apples to apples you seem to do a lot of comparing fast food to some mythical fine dining experience that represents no mmo you have ever named. Then you do the same about hotels.
Honestly talking about a hamburger doesn't make your opinions about mmos seem relevant and only servers to derail the discussion. It is disingenious at best, because all you are trying to do is assocaite the negative stigma of fast food with a video game. It is very transparent what you set out to do.
Like when your friend comes up to you and says, 'dude! you've got to see this movie! No! Stop what you are doing and go see it now!'
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That kind of word of mouth marketing.
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Yes, 3 years after launch blizz ran some commercials on TV.
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WoW experienced explosive growth that caused some problems for customers. Log in queues, etc. They didn't want more customers but people kept showing up. Hard to turn them away.
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The biggest source of advertising was EQ1, SWG, DAoC /general chats. EQ1 lost 250,000 subs to WoW in about 3 months time. SWG was losing 10,000 subs a month to WoW.
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No wonder why the market looks like it does today.
Yep I had most of my guild in swg go to WoW and I can say I was interested by what my guild mates were saying. And I gave it a shot and found a more well constructed combat system than post nge swg. Combat shined in instances and raids were a test in organisation and team work like no other mmo experience at the time.. WoW was not the only game in town but it worked well and was good fun for a time.
Comments
What i find ironic i guess with the whole thing is that WoW when it first started was buggy as hell. It s just that there was not much besides EQ around at the time. Now MMO's arent given half the time for growth. if the game hasnt succeeding in 6mths or shorter its dead and fail. also i find that the community in general has become a lot pickier. Companies can no longer release a product with bugs still there. they have to get it as close to perfection as they can through beta before release. If the game has a bug it becomes fail as well. Then of course you have to deal with fanboi's and the haters/trolls. this can be from anyone and anything regardless of history, from the silliest complaint in that the UI is green the game is fail. i just think these are some of the reasons why mmo's find it hard to get off the ground these days. IMO
It is true that blizz has huge marketing campaigns. However, as it has been stated before, you can't compare it to McD because the prices of a fast food vs a quality restaurant vary. If Mc started selling it's, I don't know, 10$ menu for 50$, they would stop being so popular. On the other hand wow has exactly the same sub price other mmo's have. Yes it is more accessible and easier then let's say eve, which is a quality game also, but the prices are the same, or you could say wow is actually more expensive since eve gives expansions for free.
They abandoned world bosses because, while very fun for a small portion of the playerbase, it went against their "Everyone should have the option to attempt all content" philosophy. That doesn't mean everyone should actually be able to down every boss in the game in a small timeframe, but with world bosses only one or two guilds on each server ever even had a chance at the global bosses.
@O.P., don't bother discussing World of Warcraft on this site, it's not worth it. There are plenty of other MMORPG websites out there where you can actually discuss the pros and cons of different titles and involve Blizzard in the mix. That said, you're an idiot if you think anyone else even had a chance to complete with Blizzard in terms of on scope and polish.
As much as I like WoW, I'm not blind enough to think that they produce some of the highest quality content because they are better designers or developers. They produce that amount of polished content because their budget is insane compared to other developers. Even when WoW first launched (and it wasn't nearly the head-and-shoulders above other products that it is today), the game had a pre-launch development cycle unseen in the industry.
Blizzard doesn't get to say "When it's done" because they are better people, they get to say "When it's done" because they are one of the incredibly few development houses who serves as their own publisher - and one of a handful who has the bankroll to pouring time into a product until it's close to right.
Be skeptical about their next MMORPG, but go into it knowing that no other MMO in the history of gaming will have been released with that amount of man hours behind it. The new MMORPG still is not publicly announced and it already has more man hours invested in development than many awesome-idea MMO's have at launch.
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Of course people had a chance, and will do in the future. Your insults have no bearing on this.
Something better will come along at some stage.
The question is when, and why - despite all the available resources and apparently ready market - it has taken so long.
Some people are happy to debate this every so often, some resort to name-calling. So be it.
The 'buggy as hell' thing is very subjective. I started playing WoW right on release and except for some annoying loot bugs and one really annoying bugged copper node it was very smooth ride. However, the MMORPG I played before that was SWG and that game had bugs. Heck, my first (and still favourite) MMORPG had a nasty memory leak that caused my computer to lock up after I changed zones 3 times so I would reboot preemptively if I was traveling a lot. As an 'early adopter' I was used to dealing with bugs and glitches and working around them to get to the good parts of MMORPGs. With WoW I did not have to deal with that almost at all so the game was nirvana for me.
I would like to note that I was on a 'good' server. I heard stories of 'bad' servers that would break all the time and players there would have a different experience.
WoW's marketing strategy was word of mouth.
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Like when your friend comes up to you and says, 'dude! you've got to see this movie! No! Stop what you are doing and go see it now!'
.
That kind of word of mouth marketing.
.
Yes, 3 years after launch blizz ran some commercials on TV.
.
WoW experienced explosive growth that caused some problems for customers. Log in queues, etc. They didn't want more customers but people kept showing up. Hard to turn them away.
.
The biggest source of advertising was EQ1, SWG, DAoC /general chats. EQ1 lost 250,000 subs to WoW in about 3 months time. SWG was losing 10,000 subs a month to WoW.
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No wonder why the market looks like it does today.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
I guess that means that all motorcycles are shit low quality products, because YOU prefer fully loaded sedans, right?
You fail to distinguish your personal preferences for a game and a games level of quality in the features it offers.
Let me give you an example that is both objective and subjective without letting one interfer with the other.
I do not enjoy city of heroes. I found it shallow, repeatitive and lacking engaging features for what I wanted in an mmo. Very little of the game appealed to my interests.
However, I do recognize it for having quality. What it sets out to do it does extremely well. I can respect the smoothness and functionality that the game does offer. The diversity of character creation and many other features.
So while I do not personally enjoy the game I do recognize certain aspects of it as being quality. Just to put things on a level you seem comfortable with I will use an analogy.
Just because I prefer fruits that can be eaten with their skin on does not mean that fruits which require peeling are low quality. It just means I prefer apples and grapes to banannas and oranges.
I doubt, but hope you will see the difference between the two.
Here is what I think set wow apart from the rest of the market and why other game designers have not put up serious competition yet.
1) Blizzard designed wow to be fun from the ground up. Every feature was questioned as to the fun factor. If it wasn't fun, they fixed it or removed it.
2) Blizzard identified and addressed things that many people found problematic in mmos and they designed around those problems.
3) Blizzard did not release the game until it was as ready as they could possibly make it
While those 3 points sound like common sense and are rather broad in scope I personally have found those to be the key factors that most other game designers did not follow. All three of those points relate to the polish level of wow in comparison to the rest of the market.
That isn't something that other companies can not reproduce, but it seems to be something they are unwilling to do. To many companies are emulating wow, when they should be emulating blizzard.
The mmo market was roughly 7 million players at the release of wow. LINK
As for a sampling of wow being dominated by kids I offer you the following Nielson study showing wow dominated by players 25-54 years of age. LINK
Not to mention their advertising campaigns almost completely center around the use of 1980's television, mucis and movie icons. Again targeting adults.
You can of course counter with more discussions of hamburgers if you like.
They have a chance to compete in overall product "fun" factor - yea. But that's not what this thread is about, it's specifically about scope.
You say "despite all the available resources," but no single project has come close to World of Warcraft in financing or development hours. It's simply unfair to expect anyone to compete with World of Warcraft in terms of scope and polish with a fraction of the resources.
FFXIV and SW:TOR are the first two games since the launch of WoW who even come close; we'll have to wait and see how they do. FFXIV isn't directly competing with WoW or TOR - it's a very different product. TOR is closer to competing with WoW, but it's still appealing to a different crowd as well.
If this thread was about "why has no-one made a game which could compete with WoW in terms of entertaining me personally" then yes, every MMO ever launched has had a chance to do just that. Most of the major flops are highly attributable to OVER-scoping the design of a project and UNDER-estimating the development resources required to release that product in a relatively finished and polished state. A lot of games would benefit tremendously from doing less, but doing it better.
But again, this thread is about competing in terms of scope - which nobody has really had a chance to do. Trying to argue otherwise just makes it seem like you lack the ability to connect what goes into a project with what comes out of a studio.
Personally, I'm waiting to get some hands-on time with DCU - do I expect it to compete with WoW in terms of scope? Of course not, but that doesn't mean I'm not hopeful that it could be a more entertaining game for me, personally.
NO, the MMO market had roughly 7 million subs... not players.
I was subing Everquest, DAOC, EQ2 and EVE online (all at the same time) when WoW was released. I think nearly everyone in my 300 person guild had multiple subs, Heck I had 3 EQ accounts alone.
But, before you get snotty with me, perhaps you should study this a little more. You'll find I know a thing or two kid. Try MMOGCHART.com I contributed to that site back in the day.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
WOW is not the best just because it has the most subs, that a personal opinion that is all... The reason WOW has more subs its simple, all ages can play it and play it well as its so easy to play and with the addons ist a no brainer.
Most hardcore players will not like WOW as much as they want a challenge, I played WOW for 5yrs and it is to easy its a joke now.. I also have played every P2P on the market.. I like every game for different reasons..
If anyone says WOW has good PVP then you have no idea what PVP is, WOW PVP is geared based nothing more, if a level 5 can beat a level 80 then it wouldnt be.. Period. I remember playing Asheron call 1 when I was level 80 I could take out 2 or 3 level 126's no problem, it was skill based thats true PVP.
They are trying to make more skilled based PVP, the problem is some of todays gamers do not liek taking risks with full loot PVP there to carebear for it and whine.. Thats a fact.
WOW's pve was the best thing they had going for them the crafting was just basic and boring.. People talk about end game, its an MMO you do not need an end game... I like games that go ,on and on and on.
I like the fact some games like Mortal online are taking chances with crafting and making it so not everyone can be a crafter it takes skill more games need to do this...I wish MO was better than it is but hoping one day it is better.. But the crafting a side is one of the better I have seen.
People say end game because of WOW, when I played Asheron call you had low level, mid level and higher level dungeons, items to quest.. and it took someone who knew what they where doing to lead quests...
Those take time to do and experince, where WOW quests are hand holding , any 5yr can do them there a joke now even more so and come xpansion you won;t even have to turn them in its a joke.
If I wanna quest I want a challenge not this handholding , Todays gamers like easy , as they are high on drugs, lazy or just stupid that is the number 1 reason why WOW is the number 1 game.
The second reason is because they are good at what people want more so , because they know what people are like.
They also advertise like no other which is smart.
I wish a company like Blizzard ran an indie then it would be a great game, but it would never happen as they do not haqve them kind of good ideas and they would rather make a money maker than a great game that, Hardcore gamers, vets would like.
I perfer indie's over and big company any day of the week, also I like the smaller to mid size community as everyone know one another, not WOW where its all l33t talk and racism, swearing and more... WOW is for little 5yr old brats ..
WOW used to be a fun game before its first expansion then they ruined it..
WoW is an alright game. The cartoony graphics and the community are a big turn off, though. I played for about a year. The quests were interesting (I'm one of those peeps who actually read the quests), but just not on par with LotRO. I did a few of the dungeons and was mildly amused. The boss fights were interesting. I think the gear score thing is a bit ridiculous.
In my opinion there are better games on the market with better content, but WoW does what it does well. It's just not for me.
So much comedy!! lol
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
There are plenty of games out there I like better than wow. WoW has made it very easy to get into that game from the start and plenty of people play it so their friends play it, it is always on TV all the time.
That's the reason why wow remains successfull. Sure they got plenty of good things in that game, and its convienent. I prefered AION before they banned my account , tbh.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
WoW release Nov 2004. Look at the population crashes in EQ1, DAoC and SWG.
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Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Then you really must be hungry and tired with NOTHING but 4 star hotels and 2 star restaurants around! What a retarded analogy. If all THEME PARK mmos share basic qualities:
Quest
Raids
PvP
Persistant world
Mount/pet system
Talent system
Crafting
Player Economy (Trading/AH/)
And some offer additional (SANDBOX-STANDARD) perks:
Player housing (LoTRO, UO, SWG)
Contested PvP areas (Aion Abyss forts)
Full player economy (EvE)
Non Instance raids (DAoC)
You cannot fault WoW for being a car (THEME PARK mmo) when you really want a dirt bike (SANDBOX mmo). And with that I mean you can do more with a dirt bike than a car, even though you have less given to you initially. Just like a sandbox mmo compared to the more bells and whistles of a theme park mmo.
If you're going to compare cars to cars then judge them on that merit. (THEME PARK vs. THEME PARK)
If you're going to judge dirt bikes with other dirt bikes then name another dirt bike (SANDBOX mmo).
But if you're going to refuse to judge a car cause it don't look like a dirt bike then you're the one being silly.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Well there you go.. WoW is a childrens themepark and why it cant' have player and guild housing, or meaningful PvP, or a strong crafting economy.. or open raids.. LOL
Thank you Ramon for clearing it all up for us.. and double thanks for the laugh
I agree, LOTRO, as far as content and graphics go, is superior to a lot of games. What bugs me is why folks have to use WoW as the benchmark for all MMOs out there. Every MMO has its market and very few if any are even trying to compete with WoW or be a "WoW Killer".
If a games target market sustains enough profit to warrant the financial effort it will succeed regardless of how many subs WoW may have. If they want more profit, just make more games. Few folks playing WoW play it exclusively anyway, at least for very long. If all games were like WoW the gaming industry would fall flat on its face.
Wow was many peoples' first mmorpg. Your first mmorpg is like the girl you lose your virginity to. You will always have an attachment. End of story. That is why.
I clipped most of the quote just for space issues.
I am fine that wow does not have features you prefer and as a result you don't like the game. No one is telling you that your opinion on that is wrong. However you are complaining that a themepark (apples) game does not have sandbox (orange) style features and concluding that as a result it lacks quality. A game cannot cater to every playstyle and should be judged on what it sets out to do, not what it isn't.
For all your talk about comparing apples to apples you seem to do a lot of comparing fast food to some mythical fine dining experience that represents no mmo you have ever named. Then you do the same about hotels.
Honestly talking about a hamburger doesn't make your opinions about mmos seem relevant and only servers to derail the discussion. It is disingenious at best, because all you are trying to do is assocaite the negative stigma of fast food with a video game. It is very transparent what you set out to do.
Yep I had most of my guild in swg go to WoW and I can say I was interested by what my guild mates were saying. And I gave it a shot and found a more well constructed combat system than post nge swg. Combat shined in instances and raids were a test in organisation and team work like no other mmo experience at the time.. WoW was not the only game in town but it worked well and was good fun for a time.