That's stupid the majority of those names are on Legendary status, ten year olds would know who they are.
What are you trying to prove?
Don't get mad at me because your developers make a game suited for children.
I didn't do it, im only pointing it out lol.
Those names have no special connection to 12 year olds. They could not care less who jean claude van dam is.
You see them as legendary, because you are thinking like a 31 year old. Thank you for proving the point about who the target market wow is aiming for.
Are you crazy? Everyone knows who Van Dam is!!!!! You are really out of touch bro, either that or you seem to let the whole "The power of the Internet" slip from your mind.
Children of today due to the way information works know everything!!!! My daughter is seven and probably knows more about the 80's and 90's then you do lol and you lived it!!!
Edit: maybe you live in one of those poor third world countries? here in good old NYC 6 year olds have Iphones.
WoW is vanilla icecream. It's tasty. It's the most popular flavor for a reason. Its simple and unsurprising and yet, very tasty. You don't say no if that is all that is put in front of you. But at the end of the day, it is just vanilla. For some, vanilla will be their favorite flavor forever for others, they will move on from vanilla to something they consider better. For many, they will never realize there is more out there than vanilla.
WoW is the default MMO game. It is a good game with good customer service and great advertising. I think there are better games out there but for most people those games are just different, not better. A lot of people are not in WoW because they are into MMO in general. WoW added some people to the MMO market but mostly they just added people to WoW. People who will never try anything else because they now have a connection to their character which they cannot bring with them into another world. The people that do move on to other games usually feel like it is a step up because they are specifically looking for something. Something more aggressive or more sandbox, or more complex or better graphics or more social, something. But if you are not looking for any of these then why move? Why give up your history, achievements and friends? and even if you do see something like better graphics in one of the newer games it may still not be enough to make you want to pull up your roots and move on. That is why there are still people playing EQ which is still being actively developed and is coming up on its 17th expansion? Possibly nobody will ever rival WoW's financial success in an MMO but I doubt WoW will make it to 17 expansions.
And I think it is possible that nobody will match the financial success of WoW anytime soon or possibly ever simply because I think much of the WoW playerbase will never translate into another game in the genre. Games eventually start to fade away but that doesn't mean that all the players will keep playing MMOs. Those who started playing as teens will have gotten older, gotten jobs, gotten married and may very well walk way from MMOs entirely once WoW is no longer does it for them.
I think WoW is already starting to show its age. Not just in terms of graphics but also features and design philosophy. There hasn't been anything new and interesting in terms of raid encounters in a long time it seems. Too often a new instance is released, everyone comes home, enjoys the new thing, talks about what they have been up to for the last month or two and then a month later most fade away and guild goes back into hibernation until the next new thing comes out. Not so bad really. It is quite impressive that so many still see WoW as home, but not so impressive as it once was I think.
I loved WoW. I did until the day I unsubscribed ... both times. Unfortunately, it's full of WoW players, which makes it an exercise in exasperation to play. I'll not be returning for a third romp, no matter how good the expansions may be.
Besides, I last quit at beginning of this year and to this day, I still receive at least three to four phishing attempts per week, and have had my account hijacked at least once -- 4 months after I had uninstalled the game for good. I don't trust Battle.net or Blizzard security at all anymore, although I still give Blizz high marks as a developer. I just won't play anything of theirs that requires any kind of login to any of their servers.
And be realisitic, WoW is no longer in it's hay day. It's moving into it's twilight years and there are a number of new games on the horizon that look extremely promising. It's only a matter of time now. And when it finally winds down, I'll remember it fondly, but nothing lasts forever.
I won't miss the human occupied landfill that it eventually became though.
WoW was a perfect storm. Nothing else will come close to what it did. There are many WoW players who aren't gamers and they won't play another mmo. It is the Pac Man of its day.
It's release timing was perfect. That can only happen once.
I would add there was a lot going for WoW as well. It had a loyal fanbase from its prior Warcraft series and also filled the void of "what happened afterwards"... well the world of WoW is what happened afterwards and you get to jump right in and find out. It also had the benefit of hindsight and seeing what other games did what and what did/didn't work. I'd say timing was good as well as there weren't as many mmo's out there and less so one geared toward the NA audience as much. I would agree that if WoW was released any later, it wouldn't have achieved as much success. More so that if Blizzard releases anything else it won't compare to the success WoW has enjoyed for as long as it did.
OK even pulling the Asian market numbers out of WoW's account numbers I'll give you it's still the largest around.
Now 6 years ago would put it back in the original version of SWG early days (mid-03 start). Of the two I'd say SWG did the same things you listed WoW has. Not ever having any interest in WoW I couldn't say which is better although from what I've read and played (SWG) I'm of the mind SWG was more indepth. So I'd dispute the scope part of your title. And even though SWG has morphed into something totally different there are still players that started in the way back days and are still playing so even now it must have something going for it.
The professionalism factor at Blizzard does seem to be better than most. SWG was (and still is) very buggy in area's, where I've read Blizzard has fixed their bugs.
Unfortunitly many of your pro's for WoW can easily be seen as the cause of problems in the hacking / phishing area. With account numbers like WoW has you can pick any e-mail address and odd's are probably good they've played.
Blizzard seemed to have picked a good IP to build on and got lucky with the social aspect, something those darn Facebook games are tapping into too.
In my day if I wanted to play with my friends I went to the park. Now you log onto Facebook it seems.
That's stupid the majority of those names are on Legendary status, ten year olds would know who they are.
What are you trying to prove?
Don't get mad at me because your developers make a game suited for children.
I didn't do it, im only pointing it out lol.
Those names have no special connection to 12 year olds. They could not care less who jean claude van dam is.
You see them as legendary, because you are thinking like a 31 year old. Thank you for proving the point about who the target market wow is aiming for.
Are you crazy? Everyone knows who Van Dam is!!!!! You are really out of touch bro, either that or you seem to let the whole "The power of the Internet" slip from your mind.
Children of today due to the way information works know everything!!!! My daughter is seven and probably knows more about the 80's and 90's then you do lol and you lived it!!!
Edit: maybe you live in one of those poor third world countries? here in good old NYC 6 year olds have Iphones.
Even if I didn't know who Mr. T was, I'd be an instant fan of the guy after seeing him. He is just awesome.
WoW was a perfect storm. Nothing else will come close to what it did. There are many WoW players who aren't gamers and they won't play another mmo. It is the Pac Man of its day.
I dont think people understand how true this is. WoW had
1) a very established IP that people knew and enjoyed so it had a reliable "base"
2) Blizzard was known for making quality content
3) many that played existing MMO's had played other Blizzard games
4) existing MMO's (when wow came out) failed to capture what wow brought
5) WoW brought incredible polish (like unheard of at the time), the ability for everyone to experience content (instances) and great combat
6) Questing, in bundles that carried you through the game
7) Consistant patches that brought new content, if you think about it, they had the lore and examples of game design completed through WOTLK (see Warcraft 2-3). Cataclysm is the first new lore to the ip in 15 years.
8) Say what you will, the balance was good
Combine this with people getting tired of their old mmo's, adding in pop culture to keep it casual made for a huge win.
The crazy thing is that eventually WoW will decline, and if Blizzard's next MMO is totally different, will they change the market again or have they set the expectation for what MMO's should be and fall victim to their own success.
If you look only at the price then yes the McDonalds analogy is not good but there are other things beside price.
McDonalds is:
Accessible, easy to find, is everywhere.Drive-through, etc.
Quick to order, neatly packaged and fast to eat. I.e. fast food.
Does not have anything special about it, just your run of the mill burger and extras but without major flaws. Basically it took the hamburger concept and made it appeal to the mass market.
Ingredients are nothing special, soda, white bread, beef, french fries. Basic ingredients that you can get in any supermarket.
Number 1 fast-food chain in the world and probably the most profitable food chain in the world.
Has relentless marketing.
WoW is:
Accessible and easy to get into. Lots of servers all around the world.
Fast to level and does not take much mental effort to get to level cap or get good equipment
Nothing innovative or creative about the game. It used existing MMORPG elements to create an easy game which caters to the mass market.
Gfx, sound, world size and other technical apects are nothing special. Basic stuff.
Number one MMORPG in the world, when it comes to size and profitability
Probably the most marketing of any MMORPG. Only one, that I have seen, that has ran TV ads.
So just like McDonalds is the biggest and probably most profitable food chain in the world does not mean it is the highest quality one. You can go to a gourmet restaurant and get lots of better ingredients, healthy food. etc. Also there are local restaurants with comparable prices to McDonalds which offer healthier, higher quality food.
So is WoW the biggest and most profitable MMORPG in the world it does not have the best gfx, sound, world size, PvP or innovative features. Hence the comparison.
And yes there is the Burger King of MMORPGs and it is called Aion. You may not like it but it has aprox. 3 million subscribers which is quite good. It has better gfx, better PvP but arguably worse game play and alot less content.
However the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPG world does not exist and that has alot to do with the prize. There is no point in spending lots and lots of money on creating Crysis like GFX, massive and dynamic worlds and hire real people to play raid bosses but then not be able to charge extra for it, which is what gourmet restaurants do.
I dont know why because I would gladly pay €50/month for an MMORPG with above mentioned features. So the comparison to food chains are perfectly valid, it is just that ALL mmorpgs are basically fast-food restaurants of different qualities. And WoW is best because it is the best "fast-food" restaurant but I am personally waiting for the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPGs to be created.
And this is exactly why WoW is compared to McDonalds. Unfortunately your post still won't stop the nit pickers and naysayers. WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs, end of story. I think we will be getting gourmet soon though, so long as no one tampers with the recipes.
No the analogy doens't work. First it is not a comparison of similar products. It uses half finished logic and massive jumps to conclusions.
The analogy goes like this
Wow = McDonalds
McDonalds = fast food
Fast food is bad for the body
Wow is fast food and that makes it worse than fine dining
See how this analogy gets twisted into fast good vs fine dining? What represents fine dining in the analogy?
I dare anyone to complete the analogy. If wow is mcdonalds, then what fantasy based mmo represents fine dining.
See why the analogy falls apart?
This is not to mention how ignorant people are to the actual quality of mcdonalds in comparison to its similar competitors. Stupid people are always mindlessly bashing on the industry leaders for whatever reasons they choose, because they are representative of said industry. Few really understand that McDonald (and most industry leaders) kick the ever living shit out of their SIMILAR competitors. In terms of the fast food industry, McDonalds is awarded higher marks for quality, service and health. Go do some google searches and see. People just don't understand that McDonalds does blows it competition away in comparison of quality, service and offerings.
Why? Everyone watch dogs the leader and holds them to almost unachievable standards, while the rest of the market can get away serving 1,200 calorie meatnormous, cheesenormus, deathnormous burgers and few even pay attention.
The only reason people compare wow toMcDonalds is for an emotional response, because fast food has a negative stigma attached to it. Notice how no one ever compares wow to google or some other industry leader that has a good image?
All of this aside, we have been reduced to talking about hamburgers as if that somehow represents how good or bad an mmo is. Doesn't that sound rather stupid when you look at it?
Fast food is a bad analogy. WoW is McDonalds, Eve is Taco Bell, who cares?
.
A better analogy is automobiles. Automobiles have buttons to push, or pedals, a place to store your gear. Some automobiles are faster than others, some are more responsive.
.
WoW is very cheap to run, is the most responsive, the fastest car out.
.
Eve requires that you buy at least two automobiles.
.
All other MMOs are clunkers. Yeah they have their devotees, but nobody who's serious about getting around would waste money on them.
This is how I see WoW. No one serious about MMO's would actually want to play WoW. See how the statement can be turned around just as easy. It's all a matter of opinion and perception.
I would also have to disagree with the statement that it's the fastest car out. If we are talking combat, then Champions has the fastest combat of any MMO I have seen. It doesn't make it good, but it's fast.
I think you should really try some other MMO's so your mind is a bit more open. Right now, your arguments are looking a bit fanboyish and as such, loose a lot of credibility.
That's stupid the majority of those names are on Legendary status, ten year olds would know who they are.
What are you trying to prove?
Don't get mad at me because your developers make a game suited for children.
I didn't do it, im only pointing it out lol.
Those names have no special connection to 12 year olds. They could not care less who jean claude van dam is.
You see them as legendary, because you are thinking like a 31 year old. Thank you for proving the point about who the target market wow is aiming for.
Are you crazy? Everyone knows who Van Dam is!!!!! You are really out of touch bro, either that or you seem to let the whole "The power of the Internet" slip from your mind.
Children of today due to the way information works know everything!!!! My daughter is seven and probably knows more about the 80's and 90's then you do lol and you lived it!!!
Edit: maybe you live in one of those poor third world countries? here in good old NYC 6 year olds have Iphones.
Oh thats right. Kids have the internet so EVERYTHING is an legend to them right? A kid knowing who Jean Claude is doesn't mean they idolize them or see them as a legend in their world.
Maybe you are right! I'm going to go down to hot topic and buy a VanDam shirt before they sell out!. He must be a legendary figure to 13 year olds right? He has been such a legendary figure in youth culture that he is featured in.... Ummm....well.. give me a minute and it will come to me. Oh wait, he isn't.
Kids have their own culture filled with justin beibers, taylor swift, and zac efrons. Those are who teens give a shit about. Your kids might dig some throw backs from your youth, but they certainly are not legends in their world nor are they the spokesman that marketing firms turn to when they want to advertise to teens and kids.
If you look only at the price then yes the McDonalds analogy is not good but there are other things beside price.
McDonalds is:
Accessible, easy to find, is everywhere.Drive-through, etc.
Quick to order, neatly packaged and fast to eat. I.e. fast food.
Does not have anything special about it, just your run of the mill burger and extras but without major flaws. Basically it took the hamburger concept and made it appeal to the mass market.
Ingredients are nothing special, soda, white bread, beef, french fries. Basic ingredients that you can get in any supermarket.
Number 1 fast-food chain in the world and probably the most profitable food chain in the world.
Has relentless marketing.
WoW is:
Accessible and easy to get into. Lots of servers all around the world.
Fast to level and does not take much mental effort to get to level cap or get good equipment
Nothing innovative or creative about the game. It used existing MMORPG elements to create an easy game which caters to the mass market.
Gfx, sound, world size and other technical apects are nothing special. Basic stuff.
Number one MMORPG in the world, when it comes to size and profitability
Probably the most marketing of any MMORPG. Only one, that I have seen, that has ran TV ads.
So just like McDonalds is the biggest and probably most profitable food chain in the world does not mean it is the highest quality one. You can go to a gourmet restaurant and get lots of better ingredients, healthy food. etc. Also there are local restaurants with comparable prices to McDonalds which offer healthier, higher quality food.
So is WoW the biggest and most profitable MMORPG in the world it does not have the best gfx, sound, world size, PvP or innovative features. Hence the comparison.
And yes there is the Burger King of MMORPGs and it is called Aion. You may not like it but it has aprox. 3 million subscribers which is quite good. It has better gfx, better PvP but arguably worse game play and alot less content.
However the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPG world does not exist and that has alot to do with the prize. There is no point in spending lots and lots of money on creating Crysis like GFX, massive and dynamic worlds and hire real people to play raid bosses but then not be able to charge extra for it, which is what gourmet restaurants do.
I dont know why because I would gladly pay €50/month for an MMORPG with above mentioned features. So the comparison to food chains are perfectly valid, it is just that ALL mmorpgs are basically fast-food restaurants of different qualities. And WoW is best because it is the best "fast-food" restaurant but I am personally waiting for the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPGs to be created.
And this is exactly why WoW is compared to McDonalds. Unfortunately your post still won't stop the nit pickers and naysayers. WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs, end of story. I think we will be getting gourmet soon though, so long as no one tampers with the recipes.
No the analogy doens't work. First it is not a comparison of similar products. It uses half finished logic and massive jumps to conclusions.
The analogy goes like this
Wow = McDonalds
McDonalds = fast food
Fast food is bad for the body
Wow is fast food and that makes it worse than fine dining
See how this analogy gets twisted into fast good vs fine dining? What represents fine dining in the analogy?
I dare anyone to complete the analogy. If wow is mcdonalds, then what fantasy based mmo represents fine dining.
See why the analogy falls apart?
This is not to mention how ignorant people are to the actual quality of mcdonalds in comparison to its similar competitors. Stupid people are always mindlessly bashing on the industry leaders for whatever reasons they choose, because they are representative of said industry. Few really understand that McDonald (and most industry leaders) kick the ever living shit out of their SIMILAR competitors. In terms of the fast food industry, McDonalds is awarded higher marks for quality, service and health. Go do some google searches and see. People just don't understand that McDonalds does blows it competition away in comparison of quality, service and offerings.
Why? Everyone watch dogs the leader and holds them to almost unachievable standards, while the rest of the market can get away serving 1,200 calorie meatnormous, cheesenormus, deathnormous burgers and few even pay attention.
The only reason people compare wow toMcDonalds is for an emotional response, because fast food has a negative stigma attached to it. Notice how no one ever compares wow to google or some other industry leader that has a good image?
All of this aside, we have been reduced to talking about hamburgers as if that somehow represents how good or bad an mmo is. Doesn't that sound rather stupid when you look at it?
And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
"WoW was a perfect storm. Nothing else will come close to what it did. There are many WoW players who aren't gamers and they won't play another mmo. It is the Pac Man of its day."
Exactly this.
I doubt blizzards next mmo will even come close to WoW.
I agree with these folks. WOW was a perfect storm that is not likely to come about again. Timing was a key element here. WOW was a huge advancement in the MMO world FOR ITS TIME and polished up the tools and techniques that became standards of the genre.
While I do think there will be other successful MMOs coming out and some that have come out I don't see a big leap forward anytime soon. Accessability being what it is the graphics can only go up so high before alienation of the player base begins. This was something WOW did right too. They made the game cartoony on purpose so they could have graphics that were not pushing the envelope of PCs at the time. I see SW:TOR doing that now as well.
Anyway, I don't see another game coming out any time in the near future that will overtake WOW until WOW dies of old age. I do believe that RIFTS appears to be shaping up nicely and SW:TOR is likely to be a very solid hit but WOW will remain king of the hill for the immediate future.
If you look only at the price then yes the McDonalds analogy is not good but there are other things beside price.
McDonalds is:
Accessible, easy to find, is everywhere.Drive-through, etc.
Quick to order, neatly packaged and fast to eat. I.e. fast food.
Does not have anything special about it, just your run of the mill burger and extras but without major flaws. Basically it took the hamburger concept and made it appeal to the mass market.
Ingredients are nothing special, soda, white bread, beef, french fries. Basic ingredients that you can get in any supermarket.
Number 1 fast-food chain in the world and probably the most profitable food chain in the world.
Has relentless marketing.
WoW is:
Accessible and easy to get into. Lots of servers all around the world.
Fast to level and does not take much mental effort to get to level cap or get good equipment
Nothing innovative or creative about the game. It used existing MMORPG elements to create an easy game which caters to the mass market.
Gfx, sound, world size and other technical apects are nothing special. Basic stuff.
Number one MMORPG in the world, when it comes to size and profitability
Probably the most marketing of any MMORPG. Only one, that I have seen, that has ran TV ads.
So just like McDonalds is the biggest and probably most profitable food chain in the world does not mean it is the highest quality one. You can go to a gourmet restaurant and get lots of better ingredients, healthy food. etc. Also there are local restaurants with comparable prices to McDonalds which offer healthier, higher quality food.
So is WoW the biggest and most profitable MMORPG in the world it does not have the best gfx, sound, world size, PvP or innovative features. Hence the comparison.
And yes there is the Burger King of MMORPGs and it is called Aion. You may not like it but it has aprox. 3 million subscribers which is quite good. It has better gfx, better PvP but arguably worse game play and alot less content.
However the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPG world does not exist and that has alot to do with the prize. There is no point in spending lots and lots of money on creating Crysis like GFX, massive and dynamic worlds and hire real people to play raid bosses but then not be able to charge extra for it, which is what gourmet restaurants do.
I dont know why because I would gladly pay €50/month for an MMORPG with above mentioned features. So the comparison to food chains are perfectly valid, it is just that ALL mmorpgs are basically fast-food restaurants of different qualities. And WoW is best because it is the best "fast-food" restaurant but I am personally waiting for the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPGs to be created.
And this is exactly why WoW is compared to McDonalds. Unfortunately your post still won't stop the nit pickers and naysayers. WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs, end of story. I think we will be getting gourmet soon though, so long as no one tampers with the recipes.
No the analogy doens't work. First it is not a comparison of similar products. It uses half finished logic and massive jumps to conclusions.
The analogy goes like this
Wow = McDonalds
McDonalds = fast food
Fast food is bad for the body
Wow is fast food and that makes it worse than fine dining
See how this analogy gets twisted into fast good vs fine dining? What represents fine dining in the analogy?
I dare anyone to complete the analogy. If wow is mcdonalds, then what fantasy based mmo represents fine dining.
See why the analogy falls apart?
This is not to mention how ignorant people are to the actual quality of mcdonalds in comparison to its similar competitors. Stupid people are always mindlessly bashing on the industry leaders for whatever reasons they choose, because they are representative of said industry. Few really understand that McDonald (and most industry leaders) kick the ever living shit out of their SIMILAR competitors. In terms of the fast food industry, McDonalds is awarded higher marks for quality, service and health. Go do some google searches and see. People just don't understand that McDonalds does blows it competition away in comparison of quality, service and offerings.
Why? Everyone watch dogs the leader and holds them to almost unachievable standards, while the rest of the market can get away serving 1,200 calorie meatnormous, cheesenormus, deathnormous burgers and few even pay attention.
The only reason people compare wow toMcDonalds is for an emotional response, because fast food has a negative stigma attached to it. Notice how no one ever compares wow to google or some other industry leader that has a good image?
All of this aside, we have been reduced to talking about hamburgers as if that somehow represents how good or bad an mmo is. Doesn't that sound rather stupid when you look at it?
And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
6 years on, still nothing touches WoW in scope and professionalism - why?
Well, since WoW, most western games have been cashgrabs, trying to copy WoW's formula. Making WoW clones or importing run of the mill koreangrinders.
Instead of building, inventing, creating, they went "copying"... And, with investors wanting fast cash, most clones and even koreangrinders were released as half steamy piles of poodoo riddled with bugs and unplayability.
Add to that, most games released since, barely bothered to market themselves, except for inside the small mmorpg communities that A: hated WoW, B: allready played WoW. Thus, trying to steal the players of WoW rather than create their own.
But... if yer allready playing WoW, why would you leave it for a half complete bug riddled game, when you have the better game allready? And, if ye hate WoW, why would you bother to go play this "new" release, thats almost a carbon copy of the game you hate?
So no, nothing will touch WoW, except age... Not until developers stop tossing koreangrinders and clones at us, and till they stop releasing buggy piles of steaming poodoo. Ofcourse, the last one relies much on investors, investors that think tossing untested, half assed, cut in half clones at the public will make them earn the big bucks.
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
Wel there are several reason but have to fully respectfully disagree at WoW feeling like a real world, a very limited real world perhaps, but plenty of MMORPG that out-do WoW in the sense of creating a "real world feel"
Overall these games that offer allot more then what WoW offers simply are missing WoW's polish and ability to be played on the most simply pc which doesn't even to be a gaming rig but can be played on the most basic desktop and laptop ranging from 5 if not even older systems. Those MMORPG that do offer allot more then WoW often suffer due to many not able to play the game how it's meant to be played. But this still doesn't mean I feel WoW is a bad game, just a game I aint intrested in but I am not blind to see it's succes and why it's so succesfull but as said disagree with what you mentioned here. And obviously this is just based on my personal opinion, just like you shared your personal opinion as to how you feel about WoW's succes.
I understand that WoW's commercial success was linked to other factors than pure game design quality, but still - many have tried, and no-one has even come close. Why?
Not seen a MMORPG that had as much advertising coverage that Blizzard has done and is still doing. The game was the most easies MMO to get into for starters of this genre which also benifith it's early succes, and as said it could and can be played on just about any desktop that is able to run Windows.
The nearest misses to my mind were Warhammer Online (which just didn't pass muster, despite potential, and annoyed everyone madly) and Age of Conan (which made something of a comeback after a disastrous start, but is still a far cry.) Personally, I would also save a shout out for DDO (as an interesting experiment) LORTO (for fan service and music) and Chronicles of Spellborn for a truly unique world (rip). There are a couple of others.
But let's face it. Nothing has come close to replicating what WoW did; and its been six years. There are a couple of potentials on the horizon, but until they appear... meh.
My question is why? What is wrong here?
First and foremost people's expectations of those newer games, then a large part of people asking for something different where forums have shown those people actually didn't really want anything to be different. Then you have the people into these games that due to their playstyle asume many games are just WoW clones but they are not at the point of realizing it's their playstyle that makes other games look like clones. Then you have the crowed who simply can't leave a game they have invested allot in already, making it hard to move to another game. But overall we just have a very new majority of people into this genre that don't want over-complicated games that require true gaming rigs they have to invest into, making many games unplayable for them which again brings them back to WoW since you don't really have to upgrade a system that's perhaps 5/7 years old.
Six years, which have seen some of the greatest advances in video gaming since the field began. Six years of stupendous amounts of money. Six years of expectation, goodwill, desire, backing, technical capacity - everything you could possibly have wanted. Everything. And yet, nothing touches on WoW, by now an old game.
There are plenty of MMORPG that surpass WoW in every way, yet the new majority aswell some of the old minority just want more of the same. Just take a look at many of the "hate" post against other games.
It is a fascinating phenomenon. Worthy of a PhD.
What on earth is so hard about making a good MMO; and why are Blizzard the only wizards who have been able really to capitalise on the genre's awesome potential?
Kinda tried to explain in my own opinion.
All I can say is, gad. I don't want to be 60 before the next one comes along. I had really thought we would have seen a new contender by now.
Think I said it a few times like 2 years ago, it will take another 5/7 years before a MMORPG can be developed that will OOHMMM many again, so that's still another 3-5 years to go. I still keep single/mulitplayer games about 2/3 years ahead in tech compared what can be done in a MMORPG.
I'm so sick of these threads turning into WoW Bash threads.
WoW has been the greatest MMO sense it was realesed numbers support that and you can argue and fight but aslong as WoW sales more has more and does more.... The facts (which is the only thing that matters in a arguement because your thoughts don't mean anything) WoW is the most popular and more profitable MMORPG too date, oh wait not just MMORPG most Sold Game and played game in the World. There has not been a MMO even challenge World of Warcraft, 11.5 Million Subs the next highest ever was Everquest 2 Which Capped at 1.5million and had declinced alot sense that. WoW is the bully on the playground and your little MMO gets bullied and I'm sorry you don't like that. Thats just how it is LIVE WITH IT.
And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
Then you are really comparing fast food to gourmet food and only giving half of the results as if it somehow represents mmos.
If that is the case then complete the analogy and state what mmo represents gourmet food. Go ahead. We are talking about quality here, so step up and name the game that makes wow look cheap in comparison to its high quality. So yes it did need to go further than that.
Sorry you feel nitpicked, but it really is a stupid analogy that has never worked. It is all about assoicating wow with something else that has a negative stigma and then pretending the mmo genre is filled to the brim with fine dining experiences that lavish players in luxury, quality and healthy choices.
If you look only at the price then yes the McDonalds analogy is not good but there are other things beside price.
McDonalds is:
Accessible, easy to find, is everywhere.Drive-through, etc.
Quick to order, neatly packaged and fast to eat. I.e. fast food.
Does not have anything special about it, just your run of the mill burger and extras but without major flaws. Basically it took the hamburger concept and made it appeal to the mass market.
Ingredients are nothing special, soda, white bread, beef, french fries. Basic ingredients that you can get in any supermarket.
Number 1 fast-food chain in the world and probably the most profitable food chain in the world.
Has relentless marketing.
WoW is:
Accessible and easy to get into. Lots of servers all around the world.
Fast to level and does not take much mental effort to get to level cap or get good equipment
Nothing innovative or creative about the game. It used existing MMORPG elements to create an easy game which caters to the mass market.
Gfx, sound, world size and other technical apects are nothing special. Basic stuff.
Number one MMORPG in the world, when it comes to size and profitability
Probably the most marketing of any MMORPG. Only one, that I have seen, that has ran TV ads.
So just like McDonalds is the biggest and probably most profitable food chain in the world does not mean it is the highest quality one. You can go to a gourmet restaurant and get lots of better ingredients, healthy food. etc. Also there are local restaurants with comparable prices to McDonalds which offer healthier, higher quality food.
So is WoW the biggest and most profitable MMORPG in the world it does not have the best gfx, sound, world size, PvP or innovative features. Hence the comparison.
And yes there is the Burger King of MMORPGs and it is called Aion. You may not like it but it has aprox. 3 million subscribers which is quite good. It has better gfx, better PvP but arguably worse game play and alot less content.
However the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPG world does not exist and that has alot to do with the prize. There is no point in spending lots and lots of money on creating Crysis like GFX, massive and dynamic worlds and hire real people to play raid bosses but then not be able to charge extra for it, which is what gourmet restaurants do.
I dont know why because I would gladly pay €50/month for an MMORPG with above mentioned features. So the comparison to food chains are perfectly valid, it is just that ALL mmorpgs are basically fast-food restaurants of different qualities. And WoW is best because it is the best "fast-food" restaurant but I am personally waiting for the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPGs to be created.
And this is exactly why WoW is compared to McDonalds. Unfortunately your post still won't stop the nit pickers and naysayers. WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs, end of story. I think we will be getting gourmet soon though, so long as no one tampers with the recipes.
No the analogy doens't work. First it is not a comparison of similar products. It uses half finished logic and massive jumps to conclusions.
The analogy goes like this
Wow = McDonalds
McDonalds = fast food
Fast food is bad for the body
Wow is fast food and that makes it worse than fine dining
See how this analogy gets twisted into fast good vs fine dining? What represents fine dining in the analogy?
I dare anyone to complete the analogy. If wow is mcdonalds, then what fantasy based mmo represents fine dining.
See why the analogy falls apart?
This is not to mention how ignorant people are to the actual quality of mcdonalds in comparison to its similar competitors. Stupid people are always mindlessly bashing on the industry leaders for whatever reasons they choose, because they are representative of said industry. Few really understand that McDonald (and most industry leaders) kick the ever living shit out of their SIMILAR competitors. In terms of the fast food industry, McDonalds is awarded higher marks for quality, service and health. Go do some google searches and see. People just don't understand that McDonalds does blows it competition away in comparison of quality, service and offerings.
Why? Everyone watch dogs the leader and holds them to almost unachievable standards, while the rest of the market can get away serving 1,200 calorie meatnormous, cheesenormus, deathnormous burgers and few even pay attention.
The only reason people compare wow toMcDonalds is for an emotional response, because fast food has a negative stigma attached to it. Notice how no one ever compares wow to google or some other industry leader that has a good image?
All of this aside, we have been reduced to talking about hamburgers as if that somehow represents how good or bad an mmo is. Doesn't that sound rather stupid when you look at it?
And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
If you look only at the price then yes the McDonalds analogy is not good but there are other things beside price.
McDonalds is:
Accessible, easy to find, is everywhere.Drive-through, etc.
Quick to order, neatly packaged and fast to eat. I.e. fast food.
Does not have anything special about it, just your run of the mill burger and extras but without major flaws. Basically it took the hamburger concept and made it appeal to the mass market.
Ingredients are nothing special, soda, white bread, beef, french fries. Basic ingredients that you can get in any supermarket.
Number 1 fast-food chain in the world and probably the most profitable food chain in the world.
Has relentless marketing.
WoW is:
Accessible and easy to get into. Lots of servers all around the world.
Fast to level and does not take much mental effort to get to level cap or get good equipment
Nothing innovative or creative about the game. It used existing MMORPG elements to create an easy game which caters to the mass market.
Gfx, sound, world size and other technical apects are nothing special. Basic stuff.
Number one MMORPG in the world, when it comes to size and profitability
Probably the most marketing of any MMORPG. Only one, that I have seen, that has ran TV ads.
So just like McDonalds is the biggest and probably most profitable food chain in the world does not mean it is the highest quality one. You can go to a gourmet restaurant and get lots of better ingredients, healthy food. etc. Also there are local restaurants with comparable prices to McDonalds which offer healthier, higher quality food.
So is WoW the biggest and most profitable MMORPG in the world it does not have the best gfx, sound, world size, PvP or innovative features. Hence the comparison.
And yes there is the Burger King of MMORPGs and it is called Aion. You may not like it but it has aprox. 3 million subscribers which is quite good. It has better gfx, better PvP but arguably worse game play and alot less content.
However the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPG world does not exist and that has alot to do with the prize. There is no point in spending lots and lots of money on creating Crysis like GFX, massive and dynamic worlds and hire real people to play raid bosses but then not be able to charge extra for it, which is what gourmet restaurants do.
I dont know why because I would gladly pay €50/month for an MMORPG with above mentioned features. So the comparison to food chains are perfectly valid, it is just that ALL mmorpgs are basically fast-food restaurants of different qualities. And WoW is best because it is the best "fast-food" restaurant but I am personally waiting for the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPGs to be created.
And this is exactly why WoW is compared to McDonalds. Unfortunately your post still won't stop the nit pickers and naysayers. WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs, end of story. I think we will be getting gourmet soon though, so long as no one tampers with the recipes.
No the analogy doens't work. First it is not a comparison of similar products. It uses half finished logic and massive jumps to conclusions.
The analogy goes like this
Wow = McDonalds
McDonalds = fast food
Fast food is bad for the body
Wow is fast food and that makes it worse than fine dining
See how this analogy gets twisted into fast good vs fine dining? What represents fine dining in the analogy?
I dare anyone to complete the analogy. If wow is mcdonalds, then what fantasy based mmo represents fine dining.
See why the analogy falls apart?
This is not to mention how ignorant people are to the actual quality of mcdonalds in comparison to its similar competitors. Stupid people are always mindlessly bashing on the industry leaders for whatever reasons they choose, because they are representative of said industry. Few really understand that McDonald (and most industry leaders) kick the ever living shit out of their SIMILAR competitors. In terms of the fast food industry, McDonalds is awarded higher marks for quality, service and health. Go do some google searches and see. People just don't understand that McDonalds does blows it competition away in comparison of quality, service and offerings.
Why? Everyone watch dogs the leader and holds them to almost unachievable standards, while the rest of the market can get away serving 1,200 calorie meatnormous, cheesenormus, deathnormous burgers and few even pay attention.
The only reason people compare wow toMcDonalds is for an emotional response, because fast food has a negative stigma attached to it. Notice how no one ever compares wow to google or some other industry leader that has a good image?
All of this aside, we have been reduced to talking about hamburgers as if that somehow represents how good or bad an mmo is. Doesn't that sound rather stupid when you look at it?
And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
I'm so sick of these threads turning into WoW Bash threads.
WoW has been the greatest MMO sense it was realesed numbers support that and you can argue and fight but aslong as WoW sales more has more and does more.... The facts (which is the only thing that matters in a arguement because your thoughts don't mean anything) WoW is the most popular and more profitable MMORPG too date, oh wait not just MMORPG most Sold Game and played game in the World. There has not been a MMO even challenge World of Warcraft, 11.5 Million Subs the next highest ever was Everquest 2 Which Capped at 1.5million and had declinced alot sense that. WoW is the bully on the playground and your little MMO gets bullied and I'm sorry you don't like that. Thats just how it is LIVE WITH IT.
Perhaps it wouldn't turn into a wow Bash thread if it didn't start out as a "OMG WOW IS SO AWESOME" Thread?
Sorry, but when you get people talking about how their game is so awesome and everyone elses must suck, then people tend to get a lil defensive.
Maybe I misintrepeted this but that is pretty much what I get out of this thread. Sure wow is an ok game, but in alot of people minds it is NOT the best thing since sliced bread.
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
I understand that WoW's commercial success was linked to other factors than pure game design quality, but still - many have tried, and no-one has even come close. Why?
The nearest misses to my mind were Warhammer Online (which just didn't pass muster, despite potential, and annoyed everyone madly) and Age of Conan (which made something of a comeback after a disastrous start, but is still a far cry.) Personally, I would also save a shout out for DDO (as an interesting experiment) LORTO (for fan service and music) and Chronicles of Spellborn for a truly unique world (rip). There are a couple of others.
But let's face it. Nothing has come close to replicating what WoW did; and its been six years. There are a couple of potentials on the horizon, but until they appear... meh.
My question is why? What is wrong here?
Six years, which have seen some of the greatest advances in video gaming since the field began. Six years of stupendous amounts of money. Six years of expectation, goodwill, desire, backing, technical capacity - everything you could possibly have wanted. Everything. And yet, nothing touches on WoW, by now an old game.
It is a fascinating phenomenon. Worthy of a PhD.
What on earth is so hard about making a good MMO; and why are Blizzard the only wizards who have been able really to capitalise on the genre's awesome potential?
All I can say is, gad. I don't want to be 60 before the next one comes along. I had really thought we would have seen a new contender by now.
Get a move on people! Get a move on!
Hunh..?
You must be a kid, or without a College education. The reason World of Warcraft is so popular, is the same reason McDonald's is so popular... marketing.
Anyone can make a better hambuger that what McDonald's sells.. just like WoW... but nobody can network and deliver that to mass market. They are both glaring example of mediocrity. World of Warcraft isn't the best at anything, it is just easy on the taste buds, therefore a common denominator for beginners.
Before WoW the market place was about 700k ~ 1.2 million. When the internet became more accescable and basically free... Blizzard saw an oppertunity to make a happy meal in a market that didn't exisis before... children + online games.
It was the fist "give me free things" MMORPG and people got hooked at how easily they could level and and accomplish things. Matter of fact, it was so easy that beta testers and pre-WoW MMO'ers nick-named World of Warcraft a themepark. Because you collected items as fast as you could walk threw the world.
WoW is an anomoly, the internet only comes along once... Blizzard used it's deep marketing channels and simplified the experience.Thus a shiny new Fisher Price toy for children, who couldn't cut themselves and always had a smile.
Before then, MMORPG's were about adventure, challenge and the unknown. Today, it about getting as much subs as possibly and trying to make millions. That is why since the release of WoW and the "easy" formula.. there has been hundreds of Asain grinders and other titles going after the Billions.. instead of making oldschool types games, where they challenge the players base. not hand them cookies.
It is true that blizz has huge marketing campaigns. However, as it has been stated before, you can't compare it to McD because the prices of a fast food vs a quality restaurant vary. If Mc started selling it's, I don't know, 10$ menu for 50$, they would stop being so popular. On the other hand wow has exactly the same sub price other mmo's have. Yes it is more accessible and easier then let's say eve, which is a quality game also, but the prices are the same, or you could say wow is actually more expensive since eve gives expansions for free.
Spoken like a true college flunky.. McDonal's is fast food. It is highly popular not because it's good, because it easy. Not only that, but McDonald's availability and network is extensive.
You can make a better burger at home, for less. But you don't because it's messy and takes time.
The same reason why people play WoW, over Everquest... is because it is easier for them and it's more available. Meaning most don't even know about EQ, but they do WoW.
It doesn't mean WoW is better, or even a quality product, just that it a perfectly package Happy Meal for beginners.
Yea ok, I'm a college flunky. At least I don't have to use insults because I have self-esteem issues and think that starting with an aggressive remark makes my argument better. So care to explain how McD is easy while going to a restaurant for a full meal is, hard I guess. We're not talking about making things at home here, unless you want to argue that making your own mmo is easier then paying for one. We're using analogies here, are we not? Not to mention that if you would actually have read what I said you would have noticed that I did say wow is easy and thus accessible, but it's accessible for a different reason than Mc.
Yes, college flnky..
You are not able to even grasp the commodity here, it's COST & TIME. If you goto a sit-down resraurant, it will cost more and take 5x longer. Therefore, it's no longer fast food, nor competing in the fast food (WoW) market.
If you want a steak, then you have to eat at Everquest!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
ill say it. WoW sucks. only reason it has so many subs is because all those 17 n under kids playing it. personally it can keep those players their. Lets not forget blizzard's A-1 perfect Security system to prevent hacks ingame and accounts from being stolen....Wait a sec that don't have that! bahahaha. WoW is for 17 and under. Real Games are for 18+. ill stick with the small companies and community. Sure theirs a few rotten peeps around but ahh beats hearing a bunch of kids who just puberty yellin n screamin like their gods..lol. so in a nut shell i think WoW is not aswome and will never be . I'll never sub to that game even if its the last MMO standing :-)
ill say it. WoW sucks. only reason it has so many subs is because all those 17 n under kids playing it. personally it can keep those players their. Lets not forget blizzard's A-1 perfect Security system to prevent hacks ingame and accounts from being stolen....Wait a sec that don't have that! bahahaha. WoW is for 17 and under. Real Games are for 18+. ill stick with the small companies and community. Sure theirs a few rotten peeps around but ahh beats hearing a bunch of kids who just puberty yellin n screamin like their gods..lol. so in a nut shell i think WoW is not aswome and will never be . I'll never sub to that game even if its the last MMO standing :-)
I subbed to the game for awhile. i can say that it was good in the matter of convenience . I could just que up all day and not have to go anywhere. Then that got pretty old after awhile. I also couldn't take myself seriously while playing the game. I felt like maybe it was a game for younger peoples.... but hey everyone has their own style, right?
And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
Yeah it did, because your analogy sucked.
It's hard to say an analogy sucks when you have to make personal changes to it, in order to argue against it. What he said was pretty much spot on, in terms of describing WOW's runaway success. At least the factors behind it.
Does that mean WOW isn't a quality product, no. It does mean it changed a lot of the aspects others liked about the genre, in order to usher more users in. It changed the dynamics behind the industry in the same way Mcdonalds did for the burger joint.
People put far to much thought into it, it is what it is, a runaway success due to accessiblity. SO what, you enjoy the Disney of the MMO world, big deal, you like what you like.
Edit- On a bit of further pondering, it struck me that even with those changes, in essence the original anology still stands. It's still all about accessibility.
If WOW really is the be all end all of MMO's why are there still milions of others (MMO fans) dipping into other MMO's? It costs the same, and in some cases it's far cheaper. If it is the definition of a steak experience (MMO), why isn't everyone playing it? As well as, why are there so many jaded MMO vets that hate it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Are you crazy? Everyone knows who Van Dam is!!!!! You are really out of touch bro, either that or you seem to let the whole "The power of the Internet" slip from your mind.
Children of today due to the way information works know everything!!!! My daughter is seven and probably knows more about the 80's and 90's then you do lol and you lived it!!!
Edit: maybe you live in one of those poor third world countries? here in good old NYC 6 year olds have Iphones.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
WoW is vanilla icecream. It's tasty. It's the most popular flavor for a reason. Its simple and unsurprising and yet, very tasty. You don't say no if that is all that is put in front of you. But at the end of the day, it is just vanilla. For some, vanilla will be their favorite flavor forever for others, they will move on from vanilla to something they consider better. For many, they will never realize there is more out there than vanilla.
WoW is the default MMO game. It is a good game with good customer service and great advertising. I think there are better games out there but for most people those games are just different, not better. A lot of people are not in WoW because they are into MMO in general. WoW added some people to the MMO market but mostly they just added people to WoW. People who will never try anything else because they now have a connection to their character which they cannot bring with them into another world. The people that do move on to other games usually feel like it is a step up because they are specifically looking for something. Something more aggressive or more sandbox, or more complex or better graphics or more social, something. But if you are not looking for any of these then why move? Why give up your history, achievements and friends? and even if you do see something like better graphics in one of the newer games it may still not be enough to make you want to pull up your roots and move on. That is why there are still people playing EQ which is still being actively developed and is coming up on its 17th expansion? Possibly nobody will ever rival WoW's financial success in an MMO but I doubt WoW will make it to 17 expansions.
And I think it is possible that nobody will match the financial success of WoW anytime soon or possibly ever simply because I think much of the WoW playerbase will never translate into another game in the genre. Games eventually start to fade away but that doesn't mean that all the players will keep playing MMOs. Those who started playing as teens will have gotten older, gotten jobs, gotten married and may very well walk way from MMOs entirely once WoW is no longer does it for them.
I think WoW is already starting to show its age. Not just in terms of graphics but also features and design philosophy. There hasn't been anything new and interesting in terms of raid encounters in a long time it seems. Too often a new instance is released, everyone comes home, enjoys the new thing, talks about what they have been up to for the last month or two and then a month later most fade away and guild goes back into hibernation until the next new thing comes out. Not so bad really. It is quite impressive that so many still see WoW as home, but not so impressive as it once was I think.
All die, so die well.
I loved WoW. I did until the day I unsubscribed ... both times. Unfortunately, it's full of WoW players, which makes it an exercise in exasperation to play. I'll not be returning for a third romp, no matter how good the expansions may be.
Besides, I last quit at beginning of this year and to this day, I still receive at least three to four phishing attempts per week, and have had my account hijacked at least once -- 4 months after I had uninstalled the game for good. I don't trust Battle.net or Blizzard security at all anymore, although I still give Blizz high marks as a developer. I just won't play anything of theirs that requires any kind of login to any of their servers.
And be realisitic, WoW is no longer in it's hay day. It's moving into it's twilight years and there are a number of new games on the horizon that look extremely promising. It's only a matter of time now. And when it finally winds down, I'll remember it fondly, but nothing lasts forever.
I won't miss the human occupied landfill that it eventually became though.
I would add there was a lot going for WoW as well. It had a loyal fanbase from its prior Warcraft series and also filled the void of "what happened afterwards"... well the world of WoW is what happened afterwards and you get to jump right in and find out. It also had the benefit of hindsight and seeing what other games did what and what did/didn't work. I'd say timing was good as well as there weren't as many mmo's out there and less so one geared toward the NA audience as much. I would agree that if WoW was released any later, it wouldn't have achieved as much success. More so that if Blizzard releases anything else it won't compare to the success WoW has enjoyed for as long as it did.
OK even pulling the Asian market numbers out of WoW's account numbers I'll give you it's still the largest around.
Now 6 years ago would put it back in the original version of SWG early days (mid-03 start). Of the two I'd say SWG did the same things you listed WoW has. Not ever having any interest in WoW I couldn't say which is better although from what I've read and played (SWG) I'm of the mind SWG was more indepth. So I'd dispute the scope part of your title. And even though SWG has morphed into something totally different there are still players that started in the way back days and are still playing so even now it must have something going for it.
The professionalism factor at Blizzard does seem to be better than most. SWG was (and still is) very buggy in area's, where I've read Blizzard has fixed their bugs.
Unfortunitly many of your pro's for WoW can easily be seen as the cause of problems in the hacking / phishing area. With account numbers like WoW has you can pick any e-mail address and odd's are probably good they've played.
Blizzard seemed to have picked a good IP to build on and got lucky with the social aspect, something those darn Facebook games are tapping into too.
In my day if I wanted to play with my friends I went to the park. Now you log onto Facebook it seems.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Even if I didn't know who Mr. T was, I'd be an instant fan of the guy after seeing him. He is just awesome.
I dont think people understand how true this is. WoW had
1) a very established IP that people knew and enjoyed so it had a reliable "base"
2) Blizzard was known for making quality content
3) many that played existing MMO's had played other Blizzard games
4) existing MMO's (when wow came out) failed to capture what wow brought
5) WoW brought incredible polish (like unheard of at the time), the ability for everyone to experience content (instances) and great combat
6) Questing, in bundles that carried you through the game
7) Consistant patches that brought new content, if you think about it, they had the lore and examples of game design completed through WOTLK (see Warcraft 2-3). Cataclysm is the first new lore to the ip in 15 years.
8) Say what you will, the balance was good
Combine this with people getting tired of their old mmo's, adding in pop culture to keep it casual made for a huge win.
The crazy thing is that eventually WoW will decline, and if Blizzard's next MMO is totally different, will they change the market again or have they set the expectation for what MMO's should be and fall victim to their own success.
No the analogy doens't work. First it is not a comparison of similar products. It uses half finished logic and massive jumps to conclusions.
The analogy goes like this
Wow = McDonalds
McDonalds = fast food
Fast food is bad for the body
Wow is fast food and that makes it worse than fine dining
See how this analogy gets twisted into fast good vs fine dining? What represents fine dining in the analogy?
I dare anyone to complete the analogy. If wow is mcdonalds, then what fantasy based mmo represents fine dining.
See why the analogy falls apart?
This is not to mention how ignorant people are to the actual quality of mcdonalds in comparison to its similar competitors. Stupid people are always mindlessly bashing on the industry leaders for whatever reasons they choose, because they are representative of said industry. Few really understand that McDonald (and most industry leaders) kick the ever living shit out of their SIMILAR competitors. In terms of the fast food industry, McDonalds is awarded higher marks for quality, service and health. Go do some google searches and see. People just don't understand that McDonalds does blows it competition away in comparison of quality, service and offerings.
Why? Everyone watch dogs the leader and holds them to almost unachievable standards, while the rest of the market can get away serving 1,200 calorie meatnormous, cheesenormus, deathnormous burgers and few even pay attention.
The only reason people compare wow toMcDonalds is for an emotional response, because fast food has a negative stigma attached to it. Notice how no one ever compares wow to google or some other industry leader that has a good image?
All of this aside, we have been reduced to talking about hamburgers as if that somehow represents how good or bad an mmo is. Doesn't that sound rather stupid when you look at it?
This is how I see WoW. No one serious about MMO's would actually want to play WoW. See how the statement can be turned around just as easy. It's all a matter of opinion and perception.
I would also have to disagree with the statement that it's the fastest car out. If we are talking combat, then Champions has the fastest combat of any MMO I have seen. It doesn't make it good, but it's fast.
I think you should really try some other MMO's so your mind is a bit more open. Right now, your arguments are looking a bit fanboyish and as such, loose a lot of credibility.
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Oh thats right. Kids have the internet so EVERYTHING is an legend to them right? A kid knowing who Jean Claude is doesn't mean they idolize them or see them as a legend in their world.
Maybe you are right! I'm going to go down to hot topic and buy a VanDam shirt before they sell out!. He must be a legendary figure to 13 year olds right? He has been such a legendary figure in youth culture that he is featured in.... Ummm....well.. give me a minute and it will come to me. Oh wait, he isn't.
Kids have their own culture filled with justin beibers, taylor swift, and zac efrons. Those are who teens give a shit about. Your kids might dig some throw backs from your youth, but they certainly are not legends in their world nor are they the spokesman that marketing firms turn to when they want to advertise to teens and kids.
And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
I agree with these folks. WOW was a perfect storm that is not likely to come about again. Timing was a key element here. WOW was a huge advancement in the MMO world FOR ITS TIME and polished up the tools and techniques that became standards of the genre.
While I do think there will be other successful MMOs coming out and some that have come out I don't see a big leap forward anytime soon. Accessability being what it is the graphics can only go up so high before alienation of the player base begins. This was something WOW did right too. They made the game cartoony on purpose so they could have graphics that were not pushing the envelope of PCs at the time. I see SW:TOR doing that now as well.
Anyway, I don't see another game coming out any time in the near future that will overtake WOW until WOW dies of old age. I do believe that RIFTS appears to be shaping up nicely and SW:TOR is likely to be a very solid hit but WOW will remain king of the hill for the immediate future.
Yeah it did, because your analogy sucked.
6 years on, still nothing touches WoW in scope and professionalism - why?
Well, since WoW, most western games have been cashgrabs, trying to copy WoW's formula. Making WoW clones or importing run of the mill koreangrinders.
Instead of building, inventing, creating, they went "copying"... And, with investors wanting fast cash, most clones and even koreangrinders were released as half steamy piles of poodoo riddled with bugs and unplayability.
Add to that, most games released since, barely bothered to market themselves, except for inside the small mmorpg communities that A: hated WoW, B: allready played WoW. Thus, trying to steal the players of WoW rather than create their own.
But... if yer allready playing WoW, why would you leave it for a half complete bug riddled game, when you have the better game allready? And, if ye hate WoW, why would you bother to go play this "new" release, thats almost a carbon copy of the game you hate?
So no, nothing will touch WoW, except age... Not until developers stop tossing koreangrinders and clones at us, and till they stop releasing buggy piles of steaming poodoo. Ofcourse, the last one relies much on investors, investors that think tossing untested, half assed, cut in half clones at the public will make them earn the big bucks.
I'm so sick of these threads turning into WoW Bash threads.
WoW has been the greatest MMO sense it was realesed numbers support that and you can argue and fight but aslong as WoW sales more has more and does more.... The facts (which is the only thing that matters in a arguement because your thoughts don't mean anything) WoW is the most popular and more profitable MMORPG too date, oh wait not just MMORPG most Sold Game and played game in the World. There has not been a MMO even challenge World of Warcraft, 11.5 Million Subs the next highest ever was Everquest 2 Which Capped at 1.5million and had declinced alot sense that. WoW is the bully on the playground and your little MMO gets bullied and I'm sorry you don't like that. Thats just how it is LIVE WITH IT.
Then you are really comparing fast food to gourmet food and only giving half of the results as if it somehow represents mmos.
If that is the case then complete the analogy and state what mmo represents gourmet food. Go ahead. We are talking about quality here, so step up and name the game that makes wow look cheap in comparison to its high quality. So yes it did need to go further than that.
Sorry you feel nitpicked, but it really is a stupid analogy that has never worked. It is all about assoicating wow with something else that has a negative stigma and then pretending the mmo genre is filled to the brim with fine dining experiences that lavish players in luxury, quality and healthy choices.
Nope he was pretty much spot on.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
How was a half finshed Analogy spot on?
Perhaps it wouldn't turn into a wow Bash thread if it didn't start out as a "OMG WOW IS SO AWESOME" Thread?
Sorry, but when you get people talking about how their game is so awesome and everyone elses must suck, then people tend to get a lil defensive.
Maybe I misintrepeted this but that is pretty much what I get out of this thread. Sure wow is an ok game, but in alot of people minds it is NOT the best thing since sliced bread.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Yes, college flnky..
You are not able to even grasp the commodity here, it's COST & TIME. If you goto a sit-down resraurant, it will cost more and take 5x longer. Therefore, it's no longer fast food, nor competing in the fast food (WoW) market.
If you want a steak, then you have to eat at Everquest!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
ill say it. WoW sucks. only reason it has so many subs is because all those 17 n under kids playing it. personally it can keep those players their. Lets not forget blizzard's A-1 perfect Security system to prevent hacks ingame and accounts from being stolen....Wait a sec that don't have that! bahahaha. WoW is for 17 and under. Real Games are for 18+. ill stick with the small companies and community. Sure theirs a few rotten peeps around but ahh beats hearing a bunch of kids who just puberty yellin n screamin like their gods..lol. so in a nut shell i think WoW is not aswome and will never be . I'll never sub to that game even if its the last MMO standing :-)
I subbed to the game for awhile. i can say that it was good in the matter of convenience . I could just que up all day and not have to go anywhere. Then that got pretty old after awhile. I also couldn't take myself seriously while playing the game. I felt like maybe it was a game for younger peoples.... but hey everyone has their own style, right?
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
It's hard to say an analogy sucks when you have to make personal changes to it, in order to argue against it. What he said was pretty much spot on, in terms of describing WOW's runaway success. At least the factors behind it.
Does that mean WOW isn't a quality product, no. It does mean it changed a lot of the aspects others liked about the genre, in order to usher more users in. It changed the dynamics behind the industry in the same way Mcdonalds did for the burger joint.
People put far to much thought into it, it is what it is, a runaway success due to accessiblity. SO what, you enjoy the Disney of the MMO world, big deal, you like what you like.
Edit- On a bit of further pondering, it struck me that even with those changes, in essence the original anology still stands. It's still all about accessibility.
If WOW really is the be all end all of MMO's why are there still milions of others (MMO fans) dipping into other MMO's? It costs the same, and in some cases it's far cheaper. If it is the definition of a steak experience (MMO), why isn't everyone playing it? As well as, why are there so many jaded MMO vets that hate it?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson