The first time you start WOW after creating your character, and move around a bit, you are instantly connected with it. The smoothnes and responsiveness of the controls are just perfect. I'm sure this gives such good feelings when playing the game, which probably accounts for a big part of WOW success. Some university should study this.
I'm sure, with a good responsive character, flaws in the game are much more tolerated, while with bad responsiveness good features in the game will appear tarnished.
Thanks for this. I've tried a few times to describe what I miss from my WoW-playing days and can't seem to find to the same degree in other mmo's. Usually I've described it as "smoothness", but actually it's the same thing and, as the wiki article says, the higher the responsiveness, the lower the frustration level for the player. Plus, high responsiveness = greater immersion, which is crucial for enjoyment (for me, anyway).
Another huge factor which makes me pine for WoW (although I'm not ready to play again yet), is the number of different starting zones. I like to play many alts in a game, getting a feel for the different classes and I really hate having to run each alt through exactly the same starting area. WoW actually also offers choice of zones throughout the levels, again adding to the replay value.
Finally, the pet classes in WoW (warlock and hunter) remain, for me, the best in any mmo I've played in terms of controllability and usefulness of pet, and the touches of humour here and there really make me smile.
Ok I don't agree with the whole "Wow is top dog king of kings" Thats bull, at the moment sure they have a lot fo subs, but you can't make a system to count all the active players, lots of us sub to a game and won't play for months. And the reason Wow become so big was when they first created Wow there was no other mmo that has done the "easy mode" mmo before, so it was new to everyone, and they took the chance on a monopoly. It worked too, but for those of us who remember Wow had a lot of bugs when it came out and in beta, so they are not perfect. Not to mention Blizzard already had a fan base to start becasue of StarCraft and Warcraft, so they had a large player base too, thats what made me buy wow all those years ago. I do not believe they will hold the "title" as some of you say forever, Wow will never die unless Bliz pulls the plug, but its not aways going to keep the highest subs forever, they can only make new content so far and stay in the Lore of their game. I mean really how many times can they warp the world after this Xpack? most likily none, doing it again would be foolish.
Blizzard did an amazing job at taking the market when it was fresh, but lets face it, new games are coming out and someday one of those games will do something new and take the market to a new level where Blizzard can't without making a new game. Sure they have money, but with all that money I doubt they will spend it all on making a perfect mmo when they have a good one still going. No company is going to make a new game to kill their other one. Which would be ironic, Blizzard creates the "Wow killer". Lets see them pull that off huh?
Ok I don't agree with the whole "Wow is top dog king of kings" Thats bull, at the moment sure they have a lot fo subs, but you can't make a system to count all the active players, lots of us sub to a game and won't play for months. And the reason Wow become so big was when they first created Wow there was no other mmo that has done the "easy mode" mmo before, so it was new to everyone, and they took the chance on a monopoly. It worked too, but for those of us who remember Wow had a lot of bugs when it came out and in beta, so they are not perfect. Not to mention Blizzard already had a fan base to start becasue of StarCraft and Warcraft, so they had a large player base too, thats what made me buy wow all those years ago. I do not believe they will hold the "title" as some of you say forever, Wow will never die unless Bliz pulls the plug, but its not aways going to keep the highest subs forever, they can only make new content so far and stay in the Lore of their game. I mean really how many times can they warp the world after this Xpack? most likily none, doing it again would be foolish.
Blizzard did an amazing job at taking the market when it was fresh, but lets face it, new games are coming out and someday one of those games will do something new and take the market to a new level where Blizzard can't without making a new game. Sure they have money, but with all that money I doubt they will spend it all on making a perfect mmo when they have a good one still going. No company is going to make a new game to kill their other one. Which would be ironic, Blizzard creates the "Wow killer". Lets see them pull that off huh?
Well thats my 2 cents, hope it helped
Blizzard is currently developing a new MMO that has nothing to do with their existing IP titles (Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo).
Considering Blizzard's new MMO is probably 3+ years from release.....it seems like perfect timing to stick WOW on a free sub / cash shop pricing model as it transitions to the new title.
Or play some the old school stuff, UO is still around.
If they upgrade UO exactly like it is right now, but with real state of the art 3D graphics and 3D sound like all games have nowadays, I'll be back there without even thinking twice. UO still has awesome gameplay, I just have a hard time getting immersed in that very old technology anymore.
I feel the same (except I prefer UO:Ren era). Dark Fall & Mortal Online on paper looked really close....too bad they screwed it up with botched launches and First Person Only view point.
It seems like everytime a dev company releases a promising traditional fantasy MMO, they screw with the formula by limiting the view point to first person or stick you in a stupid space ship...all in the name of "immersion".
Looking at the effect housing/guild halls has had on the cities in EQ2 I think no more needs to really be said. It is a great example of something "cool" that has had an overall negative effect on the game.
Using one bad example doesn't make a feature automatically bad all the time.
Housing in LOTRO added a very fun side game while not affecting world and city population at all.
I agree with you. Housing if done right can be awesome. I personally prefer the housing systems in UO/SWG/Vanguard, but they are filled with problems and not will not fit well within the world design of wow.
I brought up the housing/guild hall system in EQ2, because of how problematic it is in the game. There are very few examples of housing done right in games that don't have an overall negative impact on the world.
The blizzard devs have talked about wanting to add some form of housing (prior to the lotro system), but I suspect they could not figure out a good way to make it work inside wow so they have not made one yet. Maybe in the future they will, but right now it is just one of those things that would be nice to have, but not a necessity.
WoW came on strong and grabbed the foreign market. Not just Europe but the far east too. With such a worldwide fan base they now have momentum on their side.
Profesionalism does not exsist in this game, except for what blizzard put into it by producing it.
This mmo has gone from bad to worse and with CATA coming out its about to fall off the face of the earth imo.
I have never played a mmo where every chinese spammer is trying to get your info and steal all your gold and stuff, i have never played a mmo where the nubs are treated with so much disrespect to that fact that they dont want to continue playing, and lastly i have never played a mmo where the eltist jerks make up 99.9% of the population on the server.
This game has gone to #%@* imo and it will never be able to come back.
PS. If your looking for professionalism and scope of a game come and play EVE. no cartoonish graphics and the most epic PVP in the MMO industry imo.
You say this like it's fact, but it's not. EQ2 and WoW were released within 2 weeks of each other (November of 2004), not two months. I also know that a majority of guilds, many of them top guilds on EQ servers, moved directly to WoW. Those that did go to EQ2 first quickly moved over once it was realized that EQ2 was nothing like Everquest.
Plus a lot of them were looking for something different than Everquest. Know your history. Gates of Discord (GoD) turned alot of players off from EQ. That expansion was launched in February of 2004. Players were dying for WoW to launch during beta.
Profesionalism does not exsist in this game, except for what blizzard put into it by producing it.
This mmo has gone from bad to worse and with CATA coming out its about to fall off the face of the earth imo.
I have never played a mmo where every chinese spammer is trying to get your info and steal all your gold and stuff, i have never played a mmo where the nubs are treated with so much disrespect to that fact that they dont want to continue playing, and lastly i have never played a mmo where the eltist jerks make up 99.9% of the population on the server.
This game has gone to #%@* imo and it will never be able to come back.
PS. If your looking for professionalism and scope of a game come and play EVE. no cartoonish graphics and the most epic PVP in the MMO industry imo.
I lol'd at this part, especially since in reality it's almost the complete opposite (99% casuals, 1% hardcore).
with all the new games soon to be coming out. the clone days are over. Vindictus is a awsome f2p game and ive never seen a mmo like it yet. then u got rifts/gw2 n several others coming that are original ideas and nothing like wow. Yup u 17 n under kids can stick to wow. while the big kids enjoy the real fun mmos XD
1) Oh you mean this chart from mmogchart.com with this history?
The one that shows EQ going from 550,000 players before WoW release to 200,000 players a year later?
The one that shows EQ2 going from 330,000 players at wows release to 175,000 players a year later?
The one that shows EQ/EQ2 combining for 880,000 players total and falling to 375,000 players a year later?
The one that shows just about every mmo declining when wow was released, including EQ/EQ2?
Is that the one that is supposed prove that players didn't leave EQ/EQ2 for wow? Ok, then where did the missing half a million players from EQ/EQ2 go to? Are you trying to say that 350,000 players left EQ and joined EQ2 and using new aged math made up a grand total of 175,000?
Thanks again for a stunning display of logic and reason. You have bested me once again.
Warcraft was already a success Nov of 2004 in the US with 200,000 subscribers on DAY 1
Prior to the release in Europe Feb 2005 wow had over 600,00 subscribers.
Before the release in Asia Nov 2005, wow had over 4.5 million subscribers.
So I can totally see where you think wow was not a success prior to the release in Europe or Asia. Obviousl 600,000 in 4 months is failure and 4.5 million a year later was the bring of collapse. Thanks for clearing that up for us kids.
If I were you, I would stop insulting other peoples knowledge and level of understanding. Really it would be doing yourself a favor.
Enter GW2...... The area of WoW clones will soon be over and this game may just bring WoW down a few notches. B2p > than p2p with some MT's.
I think we are all ready for some change and no one really expected wow to be such a force for this long in the market. It is long overdue for some changes.
WoW started out buggy and crappy yet over time they improved there product. Something a lot of companies are far behind on. Not rocket science. Lot of new games are over hyped and in the hopes they will beat WoW but the bottom line is. Less they improve and fix bugs with there product over time there not gonna do a single thing but lose money and players.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Enter GW2...... The area of WoW clones will soon be over and this game may just bring WoW down a few notches. B2p > than p2p with some MT's.
Enter Aion, Enter WAR, Enter AoC, etc....I will believe it when it happens.
Have you seen the demo gameplay? There is no way in hell that this game will not take a few MMO's out of the picture.
BTW Aion was a pretty good game, people just complain too much about any little thing, and the people at ncsoft that hanlde account banning are idiots.
WOW does not offer any unique and immersive story, its the simple fact that it is simple. It doesnt take 2 weeks of being confused out of your mind like old MMOs. Its the game designed for the masses who just want something simple and repetitive.
Many games have tried to copy this formula in past years and have failed horribly.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011 -------------------- Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
If you compare EQ raids to WoW raids and say that EQ has better game mechanics, than I don't know what to tell you. You obviously never did a whole lot of high end WoW raids I would think.
Also you're crazy if you think only kids play WoW. Check this out. A older study, but probably still true, if not more so.
From the survey data, the average age of the WoW player is 28.3 (SD = 8.4). 84% of players are male. 16% are female. Female players are significantly older (M = 32.5, SD = 10.0) than male players (M = 28.0, SD = 8.4). On average, they spend 22.7 (SD = 14.1) hours per week playing WoW. There are no gender differences in hours played per week.
1) Oh you mean this chart from mmogchart.com with this history?
Thats one interesting chart. But lets forget about EQ and take a look at three games standing out:
1. Doofus. I'll admit i had to google it. Its filling a double niche. Its a F2P and heavily geared towards younger audiences. I expect that one to keep growing, AoC and co are simply not going to take customers away from it, atleast not at a faster rate than natural growth.
2. LotRO. Its getting a F2P option, and what there is in the itemstore is significiantly cheaper than what i have seen in games like RoM or Allods. I expect that one to explode, and surpass all other F2P. I mean its already strong now as a P2P and no mass exodus in sight.
3. Eve Online. If you got to buy shares in a MMO, this would be the one you choose. Its that MMO with the slow but gueranteed growth rate. Look at much younger games graphs doing the bananashot impression. Maybe EvE players procreate naturally with dads introducing their sons instead of getting outsiders into it, but boy they slowly but surely do procreate. Its a matter of time before that game starts eclipsing most anything out there.
So ill guess we got to wait and see how the move of LotRO plays out, but in the meantime Doofus and EvE show two very different ways to success. Keep in mind that EvE has been feeding hungry devs for over 7 years now, i'll bet from their view its one helluva success.
Edit: That chart is missing DDO, that game supposedly also exploded in subscribernumbers after going F2P.
1) Oh you mean this chart from mmogchart.com with this history?
The one that shows EQ going from 550,000 players before WoW release to 200,000 players a year later?
The one that shows EQ2 going from 330,000 players at wows release to 175,000 players a year later?
The one that shows EQ/EQ2 combining for 880,000 players total and falling to 375,000 players a year later?
The one that shows just about every mmo declining when wow was released, including EQ/EQ2?
Is that the one that is supposed prove that players didn't leave EQ/EQ2 for wow? Ok, then where did the missing half a million players from EQ/EQ2 go to? Are you trying to say that 350,000 players left EQ and joined EQ2 and using new aged math made up a grand total of 175,000?
Thanks again for a stunning display of logic and reason. You have bested me once again.
Yay.. someone finally decided to educate themselves. (u can thank me)
But.. you still don't understand what the market was doing and why those numbers are. You think you know and you are trying to tell us you know. But you don't, sorry!
First know this, whatever comments you've tied to make, do not rebuttal anything I said, they bolster what I have said. And for things I didn't say... why do your argue them.. to whome?
Who..? Who said that World of Warcraft wasn't a success upon release? Why do you quote me, provide a made up question, then asnwer it..?
Secondly, I am telling you that nearly 95% of WoW's player base, are/were new players. They were not in the MMO space until WOW. (meaning, you won't see them on the charts until you see WoW's delta). World of Warcraft generated incredible amount of revenues off of brand new players (ie: newbies)
It is a well known fact bro... and is exactly what I have been telling you.
Yes, some of WoW players are converts from other games, but that wasn't because World of Warcraft was exceptional, some people wanted change.
Nobody said that EQ and DAOC player didn't try WoW... (*dee dee dee*) Almost everyone who played Everquest bought World of Warcraft.. don't you even understand that. It's just that months later they all went back to their respective games, because WoW didn't provide anythying new, or challenging.
Many just took the oppertunity to find a new game, I know I took a 1 year hiatus from EQ when EQ2 came out. Some of my guildee's went to other games, EQ was basically 6 years old by then and SOE's focus was on EQ2.
But now WoW is the same age as EQ was when it was released... tell me, what WOW players hasn't tried AoC, DFO, Aion, LOTR, Warhammer, etc... ? It is just that 500k players leaving WoW even dent it's position on the chart, specially when new kids see mohawk grandes commercials and buy WoW, thus another newbie created.
Understand?
If you don't, perhaps this little visual will help: (oh.. don't forget to scroll the chart to the right to see the whole picture. Also, take not that it stop in 2008.)
Need I say more?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
[1] First know this, whatever comments you've tied to make, do not rebuttal anything I said, they bolster what I have said. And for things I didn't say... why do your argue them.. to whome?
[2] Who..? Who said that World of Warcraft wasn't a success upon release? Why do you quote me, provide a made up question, then asnwer it..?
[3] Secondly, I am telling you that nearly 95% of WoW's player base, are/were new players. They were not in the MMO space until WOW. (meaning, you won't see them on the charts until you see WoW's delta). World of Warcraft generated incredible amount of revenues off of brand new players (ie: newbies)
It is a well known fact bro... and is exactly what I have been telling you.
Yes, some of WoW players are converts from other games, but that wasn't because World of Warcraft was exceptional, some people wanted change.
[4] Nobody said that EQ and DAOC player didn't try WoW... (*dee dee dee*) Almost everyone who played Everquest bought World of Warcraft.. don't you even understand that. It's just that months later they all went back to their respective games, because WoW didn't provide anythying new, or challenging.
[5] Many just took the oppertunity to find a new game, I know I took a 1 year hiatus from EQ when EQ2 came out. Some of my guildee's went to other games, EQ was basically 6 years old by then and SOE's focus was on EQ2.
[6] But now WoW is the same age as EQ was when it was released... tell me, what WOW players hasn't tried AoC, DFO, Aion, LOTR, Warhammer, etc... ? It is just that 500k players leaving WoW even dent it's position on the chart, specially when new kids see mohawk grandes commercials and buy WoW, thus another newbie created.
Understand?
[1] What is this grade school?
[2] Umm you did. I would quote you, but since you have so much trouble posting in a constructive manner it looks like the mods deleted most of your contributions to this thread and I use that word very loosely.
[3] Oh you have proof that 95% of wows players are new players? Please share your source of information. Otherwise we will just have to assume you are once again substituting your opinion as if it were a fact.
[4] See point 3. If "everyone" went back to EQ, then why didn't its subscription numbers go back up? See how flawed your comments are? It is as if you don't even look at the information you post and see that it exposes the fallacy of your claims.
[5] See point 4
[6] You do realize that, according to your charts (which everyone and their mother has known about for years) that the overall size of the active mmo market during wows release was 7-8 million players right? That doesn't even count the people who tried EQ-Daoc-AC-etc and left the genre. When a new game releases that kicks ass and the population of wow takes a nose dive, I won't have a hard time figuring out where they all went. I see that as being a simple matter of common sense.
Anyhow, trust me when I say this. You have not educated me on anything as you seem to think you have. In fact I feel the exact oposite effect after reading your statements.
I think you are correct as of the makeup of the playbase today but not when it launched. The initial playerbase was primarily MMO vets and Battle.net players. It was from that group that word of mouth spread and new players were brought in. Add in a marketing campaign and a south park episode, and we arrive at where we are today. Even the blizzard devs have been quoted as saying they thought that 1 million players was the top end of what they achieve. They weren't initially looking at the non-pc gamer to play their game. Read dev interviews of what they say about that first year and you'll quickly see it was a snowball that just continually kept on rolling.
Now, did a majority of those players leave eventually? Sure, everyone has quit WoW at some point. But to say they all went back to their previous games is flat out false. The graph proves this. Those other games never re-spiked back up to their levels pre-wow. In fact, they couldn't even gain half that amount back.
In EQ's case, you fail to realize that by 2004, most players were done with that game. GoD and Omens put the nail in that game ever regaining it's subs. WoW was the icing on the cake. EQ2 never gained enough traction to raise subs. This was primarily due to WoW but also because the gameplay was tedious as hell. Most people didn't feel like pressing 20 buttons every fight.
So after WoW launched, even if they did leave WoW, where were they going? Certainly not back to EQ/EQ2 for most. SWG after Sony's debacle? DAoC after Atlantis killed that game? What was left?
In EQ's case, you fail to realize that by 2004, most players were done with that game. GoD and Omens put the nail in that game ever regaining it's subs. WoW was the icing on the cake.
So after WoW launched, even if they did leave WoW, where were they going? Certainly not back to EQ/EQ2 for most. SWG after Sony's debacle? DAoC after Atlantis killed that game? What was left?
That's an interesting thought. Because wouldn't you say that a lot of players are done with WoW, especially after having played it for year after year?
And just like in 2004-2005 with WoW's launch, there are also now a number of (potentially) great contenders right around the corner, that very well might be the refuge - or refuges - that jaded and bored players have been looking for.
Hard to tell right now how it will spin out - I usually try to refrain from foretelling and predicting, nothing as fickle as the future - but it certainly will be an interesting year ahead, and the end of 2011 might very well see a changed MMO landscape. Interesting times, as the Chinese say.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Thanks for this. I've tried a few times to describe what I miss from my WoW-playing days and can't seem to find to the same degree in other mmo's. Usually I've described it as "smoothness", but actually it's the same thing and, as the wiki article says, the higher the responsiveness, the lower the frustration level for the player. Plus, high responsiveness = greater immersion, which is crucial for enjoyment (for me, anyway).
Another huge factor which makes me pine for WoW (although I'm not ready to play again yet), is the number of different starting zones. I like to play many alts in a game, getting a feel for the different classes and I really hate having to run each alt through exactly the same starting area. WoW actually also offers choice of zones throughout the levels, again adding to the replay value.
Finally, the pet classes in WoW (warlock and hunter) remain, for me, the best in any mmo I've played in terms of controllability and usefulness of pet, and the touches of humour here and there really make me smile.
These things bring me back to WoW time and again.
Ok I don't agree with the whole "Wow is top dog king of kings" Thats bull, at the moment sure they have a lot fo subs, but you can't make a system to count all the active players, lots of us sub to a game and won't play for months. And the reason Wow become so big was when they first created Wow there was no other mmo that has done the "easy mode" mmo before, so it was new to everyone, and they took the chance on a monopoly. It worked too, but for those of us who remember Wow had a lot of bugs when it came out and in beta, so they are not perfect. Not to mention Blizzard already had a fan base to start becasue of StarCraft and Warcraft, so they had a large player base too, thats what made me buy wow all those years ago. I do not believe they will hold the "title" as some of you say forever, Wow will never die unless Bliz pulls the plug, but its not aways going to keep the highest subs forever, they can only make new content so far and stay in the Lore of their game. I mean really how many times can they warp the world after this Xpack? most likily none, doing it again would be foolish.
Blizzard did an amazing job at taking the market when it was fresh, but lets face it, new games are coming out and someday one of those games will do something new and take the market to a new level where Blizzard can't without making a new game. Sure they have money, but with all that money I doubt they will spend it all on making a perfect mmo when they have a good one still going. No company is going to make a new game to kill their other one. Which would be ironic, Blizzard creates the "Wow killer". Lets see them pull that off huh?
Well thats my 2 cents, hope it helped
Blizzard is currently developing a new MMO that has nothing to do with their existing IP titles (Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo).
Considering Blizzard's new MMO is probably 3+ years from release.....it seems like perfect timing to stick WOW on a free sub / cash shop pricing model as it transitions to the new title.
I feel the same (except I prefer UO:Ren era). Dark Fall & Mortal Online on paper looked really close....too bad they screwed it up with botched launches and First Person Only view point.
It seems like everytime a dev company releases a promising traditional fantasy MMO, they screw with the formula by limiting the view point to first person or stick you in a stupid space ship...all in the name of "immersion".
I agree with you. Housing if done right can be awesome. I personally prefer the housing systems in UO/SWG/Vanguard, but they are filled with problems and not will not fit well within the world design of wow.
I brought up the housing/guild hall system in EQ2, because of how problematic it is in the game. There are very few examples of housing done right in games that don't have an overall negative impact on the world.
The blizzard devs have talked about wanting to add some form of housing (prior to the lotro system), but I suspect they could not figure out a good way to make it work inside wow so they have not made one yet. Maybe in the future they will, but right now it is just one of those things that would be nice to have, but not a necessity.
WoW came on strong and grabbed the foreign market. Not just Europe but the far east too. With such a worldwide fan base they now have momentum on their side.
One word: Publicity.
/thread
Profesionalism does not exsist in this game, except for what blizzard put into it by producing it.
This mmo has gone from bad to worse and with CATA coming out its about to fall off the face of the earth imo.
I have never played a mmo where every chinese spammer is trying to get your info and steal all your gold and stuff, i have never played a mmo where the nubs are treated with so much disrespect to that fact that they dont want to continue playing, and lastly i have never played a mmo where the eltist jerks make up 99.9% of the population on the server.
This game has gone to #%@* imo and it will never be able to come back.
PS. If your looking for professionalism and scope of a game come and play EVE. no cartoonish graphics and the most epic PVP in the MMO industry imo.
You say this like it's fact, but it's not. EQ2 and WoW were released within 2 weeks of each other (November of 2004), not two months. I also know that a majority of guilds, many of them top guilds on EQ servers, moved directly to WoW. Those that did go to EQ2 first quickly moved over once it was realized that EQ2 was nothing like Everquest.
Plus a lot of them were looking for something different than Everquest. Know your history. Gates of Discord (GoD) turned alot of players off from EQ. That expansion was launched in February of 2004. Players were dying for WoW to launch during beta.
I lol'd at this part, especially since in reality it's almost the complete opposite (99% casuals, 1% hardcore).
with all the new games soon to be coming out. the clone days are over. Vindictus is a awsome f2p game and ive never seen a mmo like it yet. then u got rifts/gw2 n several others coming that are original ideas and nothing like wow. Yup u 17 n under kids can stick to wow. while the big kids enjoy the real fun mmos XD
1) Oh you mean this chart from mmogchart.com with this history?
The one that shows EQ going from 550,000 players before WoW release to 200,000 players a year later?
The one that shows EQ2 going from 330,000 players at wows release to 175,000 players a year later?
The one that shows EQ/EQ2 combining for 880,000 players total and falling to 375,000 players a year later?
The one that shows just about every mmo declining when wow was released, including EQ/EQ2?
Is that the one that is supposed prove that players didn't leave EQ/EQ2 for wow? Ok, then where did the missing half a million players from EQ/EQ2 go to? Are you trying to say that 350,000 players left EQ and joined EQ2 and using new aged math made up a grand total of 175,000?
Thanks again for a stunning display of logic and reason. You have bested me once again.
2) You said "World of Warcraft isn't just sold in the United States, it is sold the world over. That is how it got it's sucess. " To which I disagreed with, because it is just another ignorant comment on your part.
Warcraft was already a success Nov of 2004 in the US with 200,000 subscribers on DAY 1
Prior to the release in Europe Feb 2005 wow had over 600,00 subscribers.
Before the release in Asia Nov 2005, wow had over 4.5 million subscribers.
So I can totally see where you think wow was not a success prior to the release in Europe or Asia. Obviousl 600,000 in 4 months is failure and 4.5 million a year later was the bring of collapse. Thanks for clearing that up for us kids.
If I were you, I would stop insulting other peoples knowledge and level of understanding. Really it would be doing yourself a favor.
Enter GW2...... The area of WoW clones will soon be over and this game may just bring WoW down a few notches. B2p > than p2p with some MT's.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I think we are all ready for some change and no one really expected wow to be such a force for this long in the market. It is long overdue for some changes.
WoW started out buggy and crappy yet over time they improved there product. Something a lot of companies are far behind on. Not rocket science. Lot of new games are over hyped and in the hopes they will beat WoW but the bottom line is. Less they improve and fix bugs with there product over time there not gonna do a single thing but lose money and players.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Enter Aion, Enter WAR, Enter AoC, etc....I will believe it when it happens.
Have you seen the demo gameplay? There is no way in hell that this game will not take a few MMO's out of the picture.
BTW Aion was a pretty good game, people just complain too much about any little thing, and the people at ncsoft that hanlde account banning are idiots.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
WoW, was probably the single most worst thing to happen to the MMO genre.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
WOW does not offer any unique and immersive story, its the simple fact that it is simple. It doesnt take 2 weeks of being confused out of your mind like old MMOs. Its the game designed for the masses who just want something simple and repetitive.
Many games have tried to copy this formula in past years and have failed horribly.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
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Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
If you compare EQ raids to WoW raids and say that EQ has better game mechanics, than I don't know what to tell you. You obviously never did a whole lot of high end WoW raids I would think.
Also you're crazy if you think only kids play WoW. Check this out. A older study, but probably still true, if not more so.
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001365.php
From the link:
From the survey data, the average age of the WoW player is 28.3 (SD = 8.4). 84% of players are male. 16% are female. Female players are significantly older (M = 32.5, SD = 10.0) than male players (M = 28.0, SD = 8.4). On average, they spend 22.7 (SD = 14.1) hours per week playing WoW. There are no gender differences in hours played per week.
Thats one interesting chart. But lets forget about EQ and take a look at three games standing out:
1. Doofus. I'll admit i had to google it. Its filling a double niche. Its a F2P and heavily geared towards younger audiences. I expect that one to keep growing, AoC and co are simply not going to take customers away from it, atleast not at a faster rate than natural growth.
2. LotRO. Its getting a F2P option, and what there is in the itemstore is significiantly cheaper than what i have seen in games like RoM or Allods. I expect that one to explode, and surpass all other F2P. I mean its already strong now as a P2P and no mass exodus in sight.
3. Eve Online. If you got to buy shares in a MMO, this would be the one you choose. Its that MMO with the slow but gueranteed growth rate. Look at much younger games graphs doing the bananashot impression. Maybe EvE players procreate naturally with dads introducing their sons instead of getting outsiders into it, but boy they slowly but surely do procreate. Its a matter of time before that game starts eclipsing most anything out there.
So ill guess we got to wait and see how the move of LotRO plays out, but in the meantime Doofus and EvE show two very different ways to success. Keep in mind that EvE has been feeding hungry devs for over 7 years now, i'll bet from their view its one helluva success.
Edit: That chart is missing DDO, that game supposedly also exploded in subscribernumbers after going F2P.
Yay.. someone finally decided to educate themselves. (u can thank me)
But.. you still don't understand what the market was doing and why those numbers are. You think you know and you are trying to tell us you know. But you don't, sorry!
First know this, whatever comments you've tied to make, do not rebuttal anything I said, they bolster what I have said. And for things I didn't say... why do your argue them.. to whome?
Who..? Who said that World of Warcraft wasn't a success upon release? Why do you quote me, provide a made up question, then asnwer it..?
Secondly, I am telling you that nearly 95% of WoW's player base, are/were new players. They were not in the MMO space until WOW. (meaning, you won't see them on the charts until you see WoW's delta). World of Warcraft generated incredible amount of revenues off of brand new players (ie: newbies)
It is a well known fact bro... and is exactly what I have been telling you.
Yes, some of WoW players are converts from other games, but that wasn't because World of Warcraft was exceptional, some people wanted change.
Nobody said that EQ and DAOC player didn't try WoW... (*dee dee dee*) Almost everyone who played Everquest bought World of Warcraft.. don't you even understand that. It's just that months later they all went back to their respective games, because WoW didn't provide anythying new, or challenging.
Many just took the oppertunity to find a new game, I know I took a 1 year hiatus from EQ when EQ2 came out. Some of my guildee's went to other games, EQ was basically 6 years old by then and SOE's focus was on EQ2.
But now WoW is the same age as EQ was when it was released... tell me, what WOW players hasn't tried AoC, DFO, Aion, LOTR, Warhammer, etc... ? It is just that 500k players leaving WoW even dent it's position on the chart, specially when new kids see mohawk grandes commercials and buy WoW, thus another newbie created.
Understand?
If you don't, perhaps this little visual will help: (oh.. don't forget to scroll the chart to the right to see the whole picture. Also, take not that it stop in 2008.)
Need I say more?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
[1] What is this grade school?
[2] Umm you did. I would quote you, but since you have so much trouble posting in a constructive manner it looks like the mods deleted most of your contributions to this thread and I use that word very loosely.
[3] Oh you have proof that 95% of wows players are new players? Please share your source of information. Otherwise we will just have to assume you are once again substituting your opinion as if it were a fact.
[4] See point 3. If "everyone" went back to EQ, then why didn't its subscription numbers go back up? See how flawed your comments are? It is as if you don't even look at the information you post and see that it exposes the fallacy of your claims.
[5] See point 4
[6] You do realize that, according to your charts (which everyone and their mother has known about for years) that the overall size of the active mmo market during wows release was 7-8 million players right? That doesn't even count the people who tried EQ-Daoc-AC-etc and left the genre. When a new game releases that kicks ass and the population of wow takes a nose dive, I won't have a hard time figuring out where they all went. I see that as being a simple matter of common sense.
Anyhow, trust me when I say this. You have not educated me on anything as you seem to think you have. In fact I feel the exact oposite effect after reading your statements.
I think you are correct as of the makeup of the playbase today but not when it launched. The initial playerbase was primarily MMO vets and Battle.net players. It was from that group that word of mouth spread and new players were brought in. Add in a marketing campaign and a south park episode, and we arrive at where we are today. Even the blizzard devs have been quoted as saying they thought that 1 million players was the top end of what they achieve. They weren't initially looking at the non-pc gamer to play their game. Read dev interviews of what they say about that first year and you'll quickly see it was a snowball that just continually kept on rolling.
Now, did a majority of those players leave eventually? Sure, everyone has quit WoW at some point. But to say they all went back to their previous games is flat out false. The graph proves this. Those other games never re-spiked back up to their levels pre-wow. In fact, they couldn't even gain half that amount back.
In EQ's case, you fail to realize that by 2004, most players were done with that game. GoD and Omens put the nail in that game ever regaining it's subs. WoW was the icing on the cake. EQ2 never gained enough traction to raise subs. This was primarily due to WoW but also because the gameplay was tedious as hell. Most people didn't feel like pressing 20 buttons every fight.
So after WoW launched, even if they did leave WoW, where were they going? Certainly not back to EQ/EQ2 for most. SWG after Sony's debacle? DAoC after Atlantis killed that game? What was left?
That's an interesting thought. Because wouldn't you say that a lot of players are done with WoW, especially after having played it for year after year?
And just like in 2004-2005 with WoW's launch, there are also now a number of (potentially) great contenders right around the corner, that very well might be the refuge - or refuges - that jaded and bored players have been looking for.
Hard to tell right now how it will spin out - I usually try to refrain from foretelling and predicting, nothing as fickle as the future - but it certainly will be an interesting year ahead, and the end of 2011 might very well see a changed MMO landscape. Interesting times, as the Chinese say.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."