i keep seeing ppl say wow invented this wow invented that well the Hole wow Universe is taken from others and remade like any other Dragone Movie we see .
Someone can say that lotro is a wow clone, but that doesn't mean they are saying wow invented anything. Those are two completely different statements.
One of these days someone needs to explain to me what LoTRO brings to the table besides pretty graphics and the Tolkein license. Because I played it, it was fun, but nothing stood out and in the end I got bored. Because if I'm going to play a game that mimics what WoW does, why wouldn't I play WoW then?
It's the same thing with every thread on these forums. As a matter of fact, there are more anti-wow posters on these forums then wow fans. It's basically an anti-wow cesspool. Alot of that has to do with the moderation, or lack thereof. Which is ironic since the sticky post about increased moderation has this:
I think it's not as much an anti-WoW thing but more of a common phenomenon on the mmorpg.com game forums.
If you look at the forums here of other games like SW:TOR, AoC and others, you'll notice that the anti posters in those threads too are rampant and very active.
Moderation has its limits especially if there are so many forums like here, that's why they have the Rules of Conduct and the reporting tool: I can say from experience - both reporting and getting reported - that the mods are VERY active with that tool and no qualms with warnings and banning either, I know I've been banned and warned more than in all the other forums I've been together, and often for things that on other sites wouldn't even make a blip on a flame alert radar. It's more active than I've seen with other sites and forums.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Most of the moderation here is obviously anti-Wow and pro niche games like darkfail. That's not new and quite obvious to anyone unbiased and with a little bit of critical sense around here. That's one of the reasons why I rarely post here. I think the management just hasn't enough time to watch all their moderators and be sure they don't take sides.
When you pretend being a fan forum, but most posts come from haters, who often come here just to very rudely insult those who DARE to enjoy this game, you know there's something wrong and that you are no longer a fan forum. It's quite easy to spot the trolls here by just reading a few threads... those who don't even play but are just on an agenda to bash the game are shining brighter than a star when it goes super nova.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Most of the moderation here is obviously anti-Wow and pro niche games like darkfail. That's not new and quite obvious to anyone unbiased and with a little bit of critical sense around here. That's one of the reasons why I rarely post here. I think the management just hasn't enough time to watch all their moderators and be sure they don't take sides.
When you pretend being a fan forum, but most posts come from haters, who often come here just to very rudely insult those who DARE to enjoy this game, you know there's something wrong and that you are no longer a fan forum. It's quite easy to spot the trolls here by just reading a few threads... those who don't even play but are just on an agenda to bash the game are shining brighter than a star when it goes super nova.
What a hypocrite, lol.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't think this is a fan site, which is why opinions from both sides are allowed. Pick any game and you will find posters who offer positive and negative opinions of the game being discussed.
This website really caters to mmo burnouts who are looking for a new game to play and seeing how long it has been since a decent game has released most people here are well past the point of patience. Many are simply tired of getting their hopes up trying all the poor quality mmos that have released the last several years and sick to death of returning to wow after each one.
I can dig that people are sick of playing wow or it just isn't the gameplay they find entertaining, but I find it strange that they think it lacks quality or professionalism. Honestly if most of the games released in the last few years where made to the same standards (not gameplay, but standards) that blizzard aims for then the mmo market would have most likely been blown wide open years ago.
i keep seeing ppl say wow invented this wow invented that well the Hole wow Universe is taken from others and remade like any other Dragone Movie we see .
Someone can say that lotro is a wow clone, but that doesn't mean they are saying wow invented anything. Those are two completely different statements.
They are still wrong. So turbine went and copied wow, so please tell us what they copied? Was it the characterdesign where everyone can be a DPS class? Was it the graphic style? You know these cute little buildings without doors that are supposed to be houses? Why do people that claim LotRO is a WoW clone never give any examples? Is it because there are elves and orcs and dwarves so it must be a copy?
I can think of far more differences than parallels, they are not even heading into the same direction if you look for upcoming features. Especially the mechanical differences are vast:
LotRO has:
Wound, Disease, Poison and Fear which you can resist.
Common, Fire, Frost, Shadow, Acid and Lightning which you can mitigate and fall into the categories Melee, Ranged and Tactical.
Parry, Evade and Block, with a hardcap and partial parry, evade and block without one.
Does that sound like WoW? And how about skirmishes or legendary weapons? How about Radiance? All taken from WoW?
Most of the moderation here is obviously anti-Wow and pro niche games like darkfail. That's not new and quite obvious to anyone unbiased and with a little bit of critical sense around here. That's one of the reasons why I rarely post here. I think the management just hasn't enough time to watch all their moderators and be sure they don't take sides.
When you pretend being a fan forum, but most posts come from haters, who often come here just to very rudely insult those who DARE to enjoy this game, you know there's something wrong and that you are no longer a fan forum. It's quite easy to spot the trolls here by just reading a few threads... those who don't even play but are just on an agenda to bash the game are shining brighter than a star when it goes super nova.
Dont think most of us are here to insult players who play whatever game they choose to play. Its more like, all of us give our own opinions, and when some of these opinions speak ill of a game, that games' fanboys rush out to desperately defend their beloved game, and from there onwards that thread/post goes into a downward spiral and gets out of hand.
wow= the dumbest thing u can do. wow alone is killing mmorpg as a whole. cause of it companys now look more for how much many they can make than if they can make a good game.
lets break down the points of the op from his title
1. scope
wow has no real scope. from the get go it was made to get money not be anythingof quality. wow has not a single thing that makes it unique. all it did was copy every mmo before it and then dumb them down so much that a 7 year old could play it.even my 10yo neice said she would never play it cause it looks like u could play it with your pinky toe and sleep at same time lol.
2.professionalism
everyone knows blizzard dont have that. look at their customer service and other things.now before i go on in this i did play wow for about 2 months(2 months i regret more than being dumb and joining navy out of highschool) so these example are from real experience ingame. first ti took them nearly 2 years to get rid of lag.second out of all the petitions all of them took more than 3 days to even get a anwser. i would rather go to fallen earth where most times i can just talk in newbie chat and talk to a gm.third botters where everywhere u couldnt even do any real crafting wheni was playing. it was even proven that the biggest guilds where nothing but botters and they didnt do anything about it till they found someone they could sue for money.and last scammers i havent played in what 4 years but i still recive scam mails from them and blizzard does nothing.out of all the mmos f2p and p2p ive played wow is ony one where for some reason they know i played it and try to scam my account with fake emails about my account(btw since sc2 came out i get ones about it and i dont even own it) that lone nullfies anything short of good pratices fromthem. personlaly i beleive there people inside of blizzard selling account info to scammers.
i keep seeing ppl say wow invented this wow invented that well the Hole wow Universe is taken from others and remade like any other Dragone Movie we see .
Someone can say that lotro is a wow clone, but that doesn't mean they are saying wow invented anything. Those are two completely different statements.
They are still wrong. So turbine went and copied wow, so please tell us what they copied? Was it the characterdesign where everyone can be a DPS class? Was it the graphic style? You know these cute little buildings without doors that are supposed to be houses? Why do people that claim LotRO is a WoW clone never give any examples? Is it because there are elves and orcs and dwarves so it must be a copy?
I can think of far more differences than parallels, they are not even heading into the same direction if you look for upcoming features. Especially the mechanical differences are vast:
LotRO has:
Wound, Disease, Poison and Fear which you can resist.
Common, Fire, Frost, Shadow, Acid and Lightning which you can mitigate and fall into the categories Melee, Ranged and Tactical.
Parry, Evade and Block, with a hardcap and partial parry, evade and block without one.
Does that sound like WoW? And how about skirmishes or legendary weapons? How about Radiance? All taken from WoW?
Umm Wow has disease, poison, fear, fire, frost, shadow, arcane, parry, block and dodge. I'm really not sure where you are going with your comparison. Yeah it sounds pretty much like wow and most mmos to be honest.
I've given you examples before of why I feel that lotro plays very similar to wow. You like to look at some of the finer points of the gameplay and as a result feel that it does't. To each their own, but please realise there are a lot of players and reviewers who acknowledge the similarities even though you don't.
I don't think lotro is a wow clone in the strictest of terms, but I do feel that its core gameplay is very similar to wow (especially at release). So much so that it feels familiar and confortable the moment a player logs in. There is a very tiny learning curve and only minor adjustments in how to play. That doesn't mean there are not cool things or new aspects to the game.
In the end I think that seeing how turbine changed their direction of the game when it was being developed as middle earth online and redisgned it to lord of the rings online in 2005 shows exactly what they were aiming for and that is why the game to many people feels so familiar.
Yeah Korrigan is obviously a troll or had a bad computer. I remember 300-400 man fights with limited lag (very playable, WG is worse).
The only "trolls" here are those who spend more time posting on this WoW forum bashing the game than posting on the forum of their supposed favorite game or just playing their favorite game. Too bad you can't avoid childish insults.
This troll has been called a wow fanboi oftenon this site. I normally defend wow becuase most anti-wow post are uncalled for. Becuase YOU ARE LIEING. I posted and refuted your account everyone here that has played daoc knows 300-400 people doesn't even lag. YET you call me a troll. I acttually got footage to quote last night but then was like nahh, becuase you know what i made my point and im stickign with it. YOUR WRONG im sorry wow might have wonderfuly leveling, and bc has great raids, but its network code was never good. And daoc has always supported more pople in one spot than wow , you don'y like it ... too bad but them the facts.
To bad you can't just make stuff up and it will be true. Well you got the makign stuff up part down.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
and last scammers i havent played in what 4 years but i still recive scam mails from them and blizzard does nothing.out of all the mmos f2p and p2p ive played wow is ony one where for some reason they know i played it and try to scam my account with fake emails about my account(btw since sc2 came out i get ones about it and i dont even own it) that lone nullfies anything short of good pratices fromthem. personlaly i beleive there people inside of blizzard selling account info to scammers.
That's called data mining/sharing/selling, etc. If your email is shared from shoddy sources, or read on a web page, like from other websites about gaming...if someone gets a hold of that email account ( like so many other penis enlargement offers do), you will get an email about your WoW account. The fact that SMTP (email protocol) is so insecure is not Blizzard's fault. I have had 1 WoW account and receive emails about my so called "WoW account" on other email addresses. This has nothing to do with Blizzard's security. So these people, who have nothing better to do in life other than steal from people, will take an off chance that your email address has at one time or another played WoW. The odds are in their favor, to be honest, cuz most people who go on gaming sites have tried WoW at one point or another.
Blizzard can't do anything about people pretending to be them, that's where SMTP fails to be a good email protocol. You must rely on mail filters and security, as well as your own education regarding those emails, but that's another topic altogether.
Most of the moderation here is obviously anti-Wow and pro niche games like darkfail. That's not new and quite obvious to anyone unbiased and with a little bit of critical sense around here. That's one of the reasons why I rarely post here. I think the management just hasn't enough time to watch all their moderators and be sure they don't take sides.
When you pretend being a fan forum, but most posts come from haters, who often come here just to very rudely insult those who DARE to enjoy this game, you know there's something wrong and that you are no longer a fan forum. It's quite easy to spot the trolls here by just reading a few threads... those who don't even play but are just on an agenda to bash the game are shining brighter than a star when it goes super nova.
Dont think most of us are here to insult players who play whatever game they choose to play. Its more like, all of us give our own opinions, and when some of these opinions speak ill of a game, that games' fanboys rush out to desperately defend their beloved game, and from there onwards that thread/post goes into a downward spiral and gets out of hand.
Most grown up people don't spend insane amounts of time on forums of video games they dislike to try to convince the rest of the world they are right to hate them and that everyone else is just stupid. They just move on and play games they like.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Yeah Korrigan is obviously a troll or had a bad computer. I remember 300-400 man fights with limited lag (very playable, WG is worse).
The only "trolls" here are those who spend more time posting on this WoW forum bashing the game than posting on the forum of their supposed favorite game or just playing their favorite game. Too bad you can't avoid childish insults.
Why are you here then? PS i rarely bash wow at all, why would i. its a great game, but if you on any forum start making stuff up , im gonna call you on k scro.
It's the same thing with every thread on these forums. As a matter of fact, there are more anti-wow posters on these forums then wow fans. It's basically an anti-wow cesspool. Alot of that has to do with the moderation, or lack thereof. Which is ironic since the sticky post about increased moderation has this:
But sadly im not one of them go throw my post history, maybe you should be moded for agreeing with a lier. No really, go look through my post, don't just side with a guy quoting me and, ohhh antiwow haters. Becuase i am not one, look what did i say bad about wow even? That its network code is worse than daoc... CRY me a river this is known, there is not guess work here get 400 people in one spot in wow, have them all start fighting, everyone start still walking. IE server lag, daocs server doesn't even flinch. Does that make wow bad in anyway no. But Korrigan just posted whatever he felt w/o having played daoc or even knowing just assuming wow >>>>>> than all in everyway. (and he almost right) but pvp (debatable) and network code (not debatable) not so much.
Negativity is perfectly fine and welcome on our forums. However, negativity without an opinion to back it up , such as, "This game sux!" is not acceptable, and is considered trolling. Colloquialisms such as "DorkFail" for Darkfall also fall into this category. If you do not like a game, explain why. Posting that you do not like a game in most every thread about said game is also considered trolling, and is unnecessary.
How about just makign stuff up like korrigan did? I wasn't even negitive, he is a fanboy obviously however, when you can't even address the truth and here you are agreeign with him. Maybe you should check who your agreeing with becuase he doesn't allow any, any mention that wow is not the best game in every way w/o making up some BS fact.
The fact of the matter is most of these people are jealous. Anything that's the big dog will always have it's group of haters because it's the big dog. The exact same thing happened in Everquest's heyday. Now it's the greatest thing ever. The concept even goes beyond MMO's. Something like the Wii has it's haters for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate the iphone for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate WoW for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'.
Then agian some are like me posting real posts. being met by people wgho didn't take the time to read but pleanty of time to talk .
See the pattern?
I see a patterm. Some person post false statements about games he has never played. Some other person acctually your wrong maybe if you played that game at all you would know... That person says NO , NUT-UH, YOUR A "TROLL" . Enter one more person people just say stuff like that becuase they hate , my fav. game ever.
Here is pattern for you, what you said was largely correct. However, maybe you should check and see if your on the right side of an argument before throwing your lot in with a zealot.
However, i understand if your post was more about many of the other posts korrigan has done. For sure i agree with most of his posts. But he obviously slipped up with daoc as he has no clue how many people can be actively fighting each other and the levels of lag.
Here scroll down massive defense of wow. While still pointing out logical aspects where it could improve or short comings. I attempt to be balanced and rational.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
i keep seeing ppl say wow invented this wow invented that well the Hole wow Universe is taken from others and remade like any other Dragone Movie we see .
Someone can say that lotro is a wow clone, but that doesn't mean they are saying wow invented anything. Those are two completely different statements.
They are still wrong. So turbine went and copied wow, so please tell us what they copied? Was it the characterdesign where everyone can be a DPS class? Was it the graphic style? You know these cute little buildings without doors that are supposed to be houses? Why do people that claim LotRO is a WoW clone never give any examples? Is it because there are elves and orcs and dwarves so it must be a copy?
I can think of far more differences than parallels, they are not even heading into the same direction if you look for upcoming features. Especially the mechanical differences are vast:
LotRO has:
Wound, Disease, Poison and Fear which you can resist.
Common, Fire, Frost, Shadow, Acid and Lightning which you can mitigate and fall into the categories Melee, Ranged and Tactical.
Parry, Evade and Block, with a hardcap and partial parry, evade and block without one.
Does that sound like WoW? And how about skirmishes or legendary weapons? How about Radiance? All taken from WoW?
Umm Wow has disease, poison, fear, fire, frost, shadow, arcane, parry, block and dodge. I'm really not sure where you are going with your comparison. Yeah it sounds pretty much like wow and most mmos to be honest.
No it actually has not. It has a pretty debuff icon and they call it disease, but it actually really is only a dot that does frost or shadow or whatever damage. Same for poison, just a generic nature damage debuff/dot. And WoW ONLY has parry dodge evade, partial parry sound like something you ever encountered in WoW?
Im saying that diseases or poision or wounds are not just generic dots in LotRO, they have their own mechanics, they are as different from elemental damage as physical is in wow. If you get bitten and poisoned by a giant spider its different from getting hit by a lightning bolt. Also pretty much every mob does poison, wounds or diseases, while magic is rather rare.
I've given you examples before of why I feel that lotro plays very similar to wow. You like to look at some of the finer points of the gameplay and as a result feel that it does't. To each their own, but please realise there are a lot of players and reviewers who acknowledge the similarities even though you don't.
Ok, i didnt read any reviews lately, care to just give a couple cues so we are on the same page?
I don't think lotro is a wow clone in the strictest of terms, but I do feel that its core gameplay is very similar to wow (especially at release). So much so that it feels familiar and confortable the moment a player logs in. There is a very tiny learning curve and only minor adjustments in how to play. That doesn't mean there are not cool things or new aspects to the game.
Im not disagreeing. But its just as readily understandable if you come from EQ or DoAC or AC or really any MMO that has bars for abilities and a backpack and items with stats to wear, im not saying its unique or anything im just having trouble to see the special connection to WoW, why do you say its a clone of WoW instead of EQ for example? And lets face it, many reviewers these days are not overly ... familiar with MMOs beside WoW.
In the end I think that seeing how turbine changed their direction of the game when it was being developed as middle earth online and redisgned it to lord of the rings online in 2005 shows exactly what they were aiming for and that is why the game to many people feels so familiar.
I do see some more parrallels to early WoW, where classes where a bit more pronounced and less ... equal. But then again, that was/is the status quo in MMOs besides WoW, which is really the only one where hybrids are just as good as primary classes at everything. And turbine made it more than clear that they have no intention of following WoWs way with BGs, Arena, Raids for everyone(tm) etc. Neither appears to be taking anything from the other recently.
Imho the two games go further away from each other with every patch.
This website really caters to mmo burnouts who are looking for a new game to play and seeing how long it has been since a decent game has released most people here are well past the point of patience. Many are simply tired of getting their hopes up trying all the poor quality mmos that have released the last several years and sick to death of returning to wow after each one.
That sounds about right. It's certainly recognisable, enough people here showing signs of being disgruntled, disillusioned, embittered or overtly cynical regarding MMO's to the point that you start to wonder if some people actually like MMO's, exce[t the one they're playing or the one from the past they have a fairytale memory of.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Umm you actually said that very thing in post #253. Here is the quote of your own words if you don't believe me.
"Almost everyone who played Everquest bought World of Warcraft.. don't you even understand that. It's just that months later they all went back to their respective games, because WoW didn't provide anythying new, or challenging." Phelcher.
Not that anyone was really taking your hyperbole serious, but you did actually say the very exact thing that you are now denying to have ever said. I even highlighted in in post #254 and quoted the word "everyone" to point out the fallacy of your absolute statement. It sort of makes it hard to believe your protests of "I never said this or that and people are making up things I have said". I'm just saying, you are having enough trouble recallings your own statements, so perhaps you should not go calling other people liars. Make sense?
Not that linking a chart which shows the combined population of EQ/EQ2 going from 880,000 subscribers in nov 2004 to 375,000 subscribers in Feb 2006 supports your claims, even in the most broad and loose sense of things. Somehow you pointing to a chart where the everquest games lost roughly 60% of their playerbase come anywhere close to supporting anything you have claimed. Again, I'm just pointing out the obvious.
[2]
The person who has had about a dozen posts in this thread removed by the moderators for trolling is calling me a troll. Fantastic.
This website really caters to mmo burnouts who are looking for a new game to play and seeing how long it has been since a decent game has released most people here are well past the point of patience. Many are simply tired of getting their hopes up trying all the poor quality mmos that have released the last several years and sick to death of returning to wow after each one.
That sounds about right. It's certainly recognisable, enough people here showing signs of being disgruntled, disillusioned, embittered or overtly cynical regarding MMO's to the point that you start to wonder if some people actually like MMO's, exce[t the one they're playing or the one from the past they have a fairytale memory of.
Yea Daffid is right. Everyone has some MMO which is taking his back after some bad new hyped mmo. But there are some which are realy great but they just arent the bestones so we play them for some time even few years but than we can realize now there is no more what it can offer and we move on. There are mostly WoW players trying something and getting back (because WoW has biggest playerbase kinda) but also are there players who just jump from one MMO to other and they are trying to find theirs bestone at market or returning to other game than WoW. For some ppl can be WoW that bad MMO from they are quiting.
I enjoyed so far more than just one MMO what I've always wanted to play is EvE but my gf plays also so... you know. :P But I'm realy looking forward to Guild Wars 2 or Star Wars but I think those star wars wont be so good as they say but we'll see. I just want to play a sci-fi mmo but there is no good except EvE now, imo. Or Jumpgate Evolution could be choice maybe.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
I think we are just splittng a lot of hairs now. Are partial parries really that much different in concept from glancing blows or the range of damage absorbed by a shield block? Is the amount of dps that either damage or support classes really make that much difference in HOW they are played? Be the difference 10% or 40%, the mechanics don't really change. These are all the fine points, not the core.
Saying that wow debuffs are nothing more than damage is also being just a bit disingenious. There are plenty of diesease, poisons, magics and effects that do far more things than just damage.
Do we really need to discuss why people don't compare wow/lotro to eq in terms of similarities just because they all have hotbars? Comparing harsh death penalty, force group, directionless spawn camping mob grind centric gameplay to that of quest grind, solo friendly, heavy instanced storyline content? I think it is fairly self evident why no one makes those comparisons.
Sure recently both games have been going their own ways and I agree. To go one step further I think lotro has a lot of differences from wow. From its approach of pvp to the wicked music system to the overall look of the game world. Yet even with all of those differences, it still felt a lot like playing wow or more accurately not different enough than playing wow.
Again none of this is a slam on lotro. I think it is a great game and it excels at telling its story and providing immersion. My point, and this really is my only point, is that the similarities of the gameplay between wow/lotro kept lotro from really capturing a larger portion of the market.
Yeah Korrigan is obviously a troll or had a bad computer. I remember 300-400 man fights with limited lag (very playable, WG is worse).
The only "trolls" here are those who spend more time posting on this WoW forum bashing the game than posting on the forum of their supposed favorite game or just playing their favorite game. Too bad you can't avoid childish insults.
Why are you here then? PS i rarely bash wow at all, why would i. its a great game, but if you on any forum start making stuff up , im gonna call you on k scro.
It's the same thing with every thread on these forums. As a matter of fact, there are more anti-wow posters on these forums then wow fans. It's basically an anti-wow cesspool. Alot of that has to do with the moderation, or lack thereof. Which is ironic since the sticky post about increased moderation has this:
But sadly im not one of them go throw my post history, maybe you should be moded for agreeing with a lier. No really, go look through my post, don't just side with a guy quoting me and, ohhh antiwow haters. Becuase i am not one, look what did i say bad about wow even? That its network code is worse than daoc... CRY me a river this is known, there is not guess work here get 400 people in one spot in wow, have them all start fighting, everyone start still walking. IE server lag, daocs server doesn't even flinch. Does that make wow bad in anyway no. But Korrigan just posted whatever he felt w/o having played daoc or even knowing just assuming wow >>>>>> than all in everyway. (and he almost right) but pvp (debatable) and network code (not debatable) not so much.
Negativity is perfectly fine and welcome on our forums. However, negativity without an opinion to back it up , such as, "This game sux!" is not acceptable, and is considered trolling. Colloquialisms such as "DorkFail" for Darkfall also fall into this category. If you do not like a game, explain why. Posting that you do not like a game in most every thread about said game is also considered trolling, and is unnecessary.
How about just makign stuff up like korrigan did? I wasn't even negitive, he is a fanboy obviously however, when you can't even address the truth and here you are agreeign with him. Maybe you should check who your agreeing with becuase he doesn't allow any, any mention that wow is not the best game in every way w/o making up some BS fact.
The fact of the matter is most of these people are jealous. Anything that's the big dog will always have it's group of haters because it's the big dog. The exact same thing happened in Everquest's heyday. Now it's the greatest thing ever. The concept even goes beyond MMO's. Something like the Wii has it's haters for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate the iphone for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate WoW for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'.
Then agian some are like me posting real posts. being met by people wgho didn't take the time to read but pleanty of time to talk .
See the pattern?
I see a patterm. Some person post false statements about games he has never played. Some other person acctually your wrong maybe if you played that game at all you would know... That person says NO , NUT-UH, YOUR A "TROLL" . Enter one more person people just say stuff like that becuase they hate , my fav. game ever.
Here is pattern for you, what you said was largely correct. However, maybe you should check and see if your on the right side of an argument before throwing your lot in with a zealot.
However, i understand if your post was more about many of the other posts korrigan has done. For sure i agree with most of his posts. But he obviously slipped up with daoc as he has no clue how many people can be actively fighting each other and the levels of lag.
Here scroll down massive defense of wow. While still pointing out logical aspects where it could improve or short comings. I attempt to be balanced and rational.
My post wasn't directed specifically at you, but to the forums in general. There are people who come here who post like WoW killed a family member. It's just a game, a very successfull one. Debating the how and why it's successfull is valid, but there are forum posters who cannot even see beyond their anti-wow bias that they discredit anything the game has done. To say WoW doesn't have polish or is poor quality is downright laughable. If other games had the same kind of quality as what Blizzard puts out, those subs would have a ton more subs. Trust me, I wish there was more competition out there right now. I don't think it's good that only one game dominates a genre. But everyone seems to blame Blizzard for this. I say, put the blame on who is responsible for churning out these games, the developers of those titles. It's on them to put out a quality product. It's on them to produce something that doesn't get old and stale after 1 month.
Yeah Korrigan is obviously a troll or had a bad computer. I remember 300-400 man fights with limited lag (very playable, WG is worse).
The only "trolls" here are those who spend more time posting on this WoW forum bashing the game than posting on the forum of their supposed favorite game or just playing their favorite game. Too bad you can't avoid childish insults.
Why are you here then? PS i rarely bash wow at all, why would i. its a great game, but if you on any forum start making stuff up , im gonna call you on k scro.
It's the same thing with every thread on these forums. As a matter of fact, there are more anti-wow posters on these forums then wow fans. It's basically an anti-wow cesspool. Alot of that has to do with the moderation, or lack thereof. Which is ironic since the sticky post about increased moderation has this:
But sadly im not one of them go throw my post history, maybe you should be moded for agreeing with a lier. No really, go look through my post, don't just side with a guy quoting me and, ohhh antiwow haters. Becuase i am not one, look what did i say bad about wow even? That its network code is worse than daoc... CRY me a river this is known, there is not guess work here get 400 people in one spot in wow, have them all start fighting, everyone start still walking. IE server lag, daocs server doesn't even flinch. Does that make wow bad in anyway no. But Korrigan just posted whatever he felt w/o having played daoc or even knowing just assuming wow >>>>>> than all in everyway. (and he almost right) but pvp (debatable) and network code (not debatable) not so much.
Negativity is perfectly fine and welcome on our forums. However, negativity without an opinion to back it up , such as, "This game sux!" is not acceptable, and is considered trolling. Colloquialisms such as "DorkFail" for Darkfall also fall into this category. If you do not like a game, explain why. Posting that you do not like a game in most every thread about said game is also considered trolling, and is unnecessary.
How about just makign stuff up like korrigan did? I wasn't even negitive, he is a fanboy obviously however, when you can't even address the truth and here you are agreeign with him. Maybe you should check who your agreeing with becuase he doesn't allow any, any mention that wow is not the best game in every way w/o making up some BS fact.
The fact of the matter is most of these people are jealous. Anything that's the big dog will always have it's group of haters because it's the big dog. The exact same thing happened in Everquest's heyday. Now it's the greatest thing ever. The concept even goes beyond MMO's. Something like the Wii has it's haters for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate the iphone for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate WoW for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'.
Then agian some are like me posting real posts. being met by people wgho didn't take the time to read but pleanty of time to talk .
See the pattern?
I see a patterm. Some person post false statements about games he has never played. Some other person acctually your wrong maybe if you played that game at all you would know... That person says NO , NUT-UH, YOUR A "TROLL" . Enter one more person people just say stuff like that becuase they hate , my fav. game ever.
Here is pattern for you, what you said was largely correct. However, maybe you should check and see if your on the right side of an argument before throwing your lot in with a zealot.
However, i understand if your post was more about many of the other posts korrigan has done. For sure i agree with most of his posts. But he obviously slipped up with daoc as he has no clue how many people can be actively fighting each other and the levels of lag.
Here scroll down massive defense of wow. While still pointing out logical aspects where it could improve or short comings. I attempt to be balanced and rational.
My post wasn't directed specifically at you, but to the forums in general. There are people who come here who post like WoW killed a family member. It's just a game, a very successfull one. Debating the how and why it's successfull is valid, but there are forum posters who cannot even see beyond their anti-wow bias that they discredit anything the game has done. To say WoW doesn't have polish or is poor quality is downright laughable. If other games had the same kind of quality as what Blizzard puts out, those subs would have a ton more subs. Trust me, I wish there was more competition out there right now. I don't think it's good that only one game dominates a genre. But everyone seems to blame Blizzard for this. I say, put the blame on who is responsible for churning out these games, the developers of those titles. It's on them to put out a quality product. It's on them to produce something that doesn't get old and stale after 1 month.
There are games out there that don't get old or stale after 1month besides WOW. I like WOW , but I'm over it. Tired of doing the same thing over and over. I'll try out Cataclysm, but the graphics are getting a little stale for me, personally. Blizz does make good games, and WOTLK is a great XPAC. But I'm tired of doing the same thing over and over and over.
I think we are just splittng a lot of hairs now. Are partial parries really that much different in concept from glancing blows or the range of damage absorbed by a shield block? Is the amount of dps that either damage or support classes really make that much difference in HOW they are played? Be the difference 10% or 40%, the mechanics don't really change. These are all the fine points, not the core.
Im honestly not trying to split hairs, maybe these examples make more sense from the standpoint of a Tank than a DD or even healer. But to me it always felt strange that a block in WoW only stops X amount of damage while a parry or dodge avoids all. Also yes it makes a big difference, because it affects if you get into a group or not and what you do when your in a group. A group looking for dps wont take a Warden or Captain or Loremaster etc. In exchange your primary purpose is much stronger than in WoW. Think old shadow priest with monopoly on group manaregen vs DD version we have today. Yes they made all hybrids viable as DD, but they paid a price for that. This is not present in LotRO. Loremaster may be "just" a debuffer(he is not, but you know how people are), but damn he is the best debuffer you will ever get. Also people dont just judge people by their DPS in lotro, they know a LM will do less for example, but they also know he brings many other awesome advantages to the table(and this is not aimed at WoWs community, they are right, in WoW DPS is the most important part of a DD, and everyone but healer and tank are DDs).
If i want to play a mighy support class in WoW i can only play a healer. There is no secondary support like CC that affects whole groups or debuffs that can reduce a dangerous group to a bunch of sissys, your either heal, DD or tank. The era where people used CC even in heros ended a long long time ago. And thats what i meant, its not about 40% more or less damage, its about having focused classes, and a different gameplay due to it.
Saying that wow debuffs are nothing more than damage is also being just a bit disingenious. There are plenty of diesease, poisons, magics and effects that do far more things than just damage.
I didnt mean it like that, what i meant is that WoW has a much simpler system. Its either physical or magical. If its physical it gets applied vs your armor, if its magical it gets applied against your resists. In Lotro poison for example is neither physical, nor is it magical. Its is its own category, some RPGs have this concept i think. Magical resistance has nothing to do with getting poisoned. Also you know who can help you when you are poisoned? The hunter, cause he is the wildlife dude that hangs out in forests and stuff. It kinda makes sense which is neat.
Do we really need to discuss why people don't compare wow/lotro to eq in terms of similarities just because they all have hotbars? Comparing harsh death penalty, force group, directionless spawn camping mob grind centric gameplay to that of quest grind, solo friendly, heavy instanced storyline content? I think it is fairly self evident why no one makes those comparisons.
LotRO only recently did away with forced groups for the main storyline, and deeds? They require you to grind mobs, sometimes these mobs are elite ... Deeds are another nice example btw, WoW has nothing like it.
Sure recently both games have been going their own ways and I agree. To go one step further I think lotro has a lot of differences from wow. From its approach of pvp to the wicked music system to the overall look of the game world. Yet even with all of those differences, it still felt a lot like playing wow or more accurately not different enough than playing wow.
Maybe thats just because it felt polished, just like WoW does . Many MMOs these days have some really crazy mechanics which get alot of getting used to, compared to that both LotRO and WoW have a certain old world feel to them imho.
Its just that they both have so much stuff that the other does not have that it seems strange to compare them to me. I think we could make a huge spreadsheet with stuff like glyphs, dual talent specs, hero mode instances, characterdesign, skirmishes, sclaing instances, dread system, clothing system, arena and BGs, music system, crafting(you can be a farmer in LotRO and make yourself pipe weed to smoke) etc. If we then go and look for similarities, stuff that is the same for both games, than atleast i do struggle. Even group and raidsizes are different, thats hardly a defining feature but it shows how hard it is to find similarities.
Again none of this is a slam on lotro. I think it is a great game and it excels at telling its story and providing immersion. My point, and this really is my only point, is that the similarities of the gameplay between wow/lotro kept lotro from really capturing a larger portion of the market.
I like both games, and you didnt come off as slamming LotRO no worries . WoW is nice for a quick fix of grouping in an instance(i enjoy grouping over all else, i detest questing in WoW, mostly because it feels like a waste of time that i instead could spend with other people in an instance), while LotRO is more for relaxing, exploration and RP and stuff(RP in LotRO is just so much more awesome ... having your own home, an adress and an actual profession that doesnt involve killing people or making weapons helps alot). I play them in entirely different moods, its just ... very different for me, which is why i have so much trouble seeing the similarities i guess. Its like someone said that Fallout 3 is a copy of Counterstrike, if i slant my head just right i can somehow see where he is coming from, but it just doesnt compute for me.
Also as a LotRO/WoW player i noticed that im kind of a rarity. Most WoW players dont get along with LotROs gameplay much, and the reverse is true for LotRO aswell. And im not talking about the usual WoW bashing that seems to be the sport of the new millenium, but about simply trying it and finding it strange/unfun/bland etc.
And to adress you last point, im not really sure that even the perfect MMO that did everything just right, could be successful in todays market. Its like Daihatsu making the perfect car, people would still drive Fords, BMWs or Toyota for a myriad reasons. There are many people playing WoW right now that wouldnt even do a switch to WoW 2 if it was made by blizzard and being clearly better. So im wary of pointing my finger at some gamemechanic(or bunch of gamemechanics) and saying "there we have it, thats the reason its not as successful as WoW".
There are games out there that don't get old or stale after 1month besides WOW. I like WOW , but I'm over it. Tired of doing the same thing over and over. I'll try out Cataclysm, but the graphics are getting a little stale for me, personally. Blizz does make good games, and WOTLK is a great XPAC. But I'm tired of doing the same thing over and over and over.
I play the PVE part mostly with experience turned off. Hunt for the most lucrative world/dungeon quests and blue gear in dungeons and then put experience turned on again to level in the Bg's.
A blast. It took me more than a year to get my Dwarf rogue at 79. He's retired now until CATA (only a Stratholme solo run for the rare horse now and then).
It was that good I decided to reroll another Rogue (undead - another angle) with the same goals: becoming Batttlemaster and Conqueror.
Normally it will take till March/April before even reaching 80 that way.
At this scheme WOW needs to be supported till 2020 for me to even reach a handful characters with PvP goals.
The challenge lies within the fun creativeness of the player.
No need to hunt down inferior products with this kind offreedom in even the most basic game mechanism: leveling.
6 years and count the other 10 to follow already.
O yes, I have one main too, but I am not spoiling the fun of the end game more than once.
The game that can give me this kind of choices with the same polishment is not born yet and probably isn't even the next MMO from Blizzard.
But nevertheless, call me if that rare gem will ever drop in the next 5 years.
Why did star wars galaxies subscriptions decline? Seriously you really don't know where all those people went either? Why soe suddenly decided to change swg into a level based quest grinding game with 9 classes? Come on now, please tell me you are joking.
I mean really, even you have to have noticed that your precious charts show almost every western mmo declining at the release of wow and never recovering. Please tell me you at least see that.
Then you say what happened to everquest was unrelated to wow, in this very same thread you said "everyone" in EQ bought a wow account. I'm just curious who you think went out recruiting all those new mmo players to come join wow? It must have been pretty massive since, according to you, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of experienced mmo players were quitting wow to return to their previous mmos at the very same time wow was growing in record numbers.
So please do tell me why EQ subs really declined. I really cannot wait to hear your explaination of that.
Also, if you can't understand why the decline of mmo populations 6 years ago isn't related to a thread about the decline of mmo quality for the last 6 years I just don't know of a more simple explaination for you. This is obvious common sense stuff and I am not sure why you can't grasp it.
Comments
One of these days someone needs to explain to me what LoTRO brings to the table besides pretty graphics and the Tolkein license. Because I played it, it was fun, but nothing stood out and in the end I got bored. Because if I'm going to play a game that mimics what WoW does, why wouldn't I play WoW then?
I think it's not as much an anti-WoW thing but more of a common phenomenon on the mmorpg.com game forums.
If you look at the forums here of other games like SW:TOR, AoC and others, you'll notice that the anti posters in those threads too are rampant and very active.
Moderation has its limits especially if there are so many forums like here, that's why they have the Rules of Conduct and the reporting tool: I can say from experience - both reporting and getting reported - that the mods are VERY active with that tool and no qualms with warnings and banning either, I know I've been banned and warned more than in all the other forums I've been together, and often for things that on other sites wouldn't even make a blip on a flame alert radar. It's more active than I've seen with other sites and forums.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Most of the moderation here is obviously anti-Wow and pro niche games like darkfail. That's not new and quite obvious to anyone unbiased and with a little bit of critical sense around here. That's one of the reasons why I rarely post here. I think the management just hasn't enough time to watch all their moderators and be sure they don't take sides.
When you pretend being a fan forum, but most posts come from haters, who often come here just to very rudely insult those who DARE to enjoy this game, you know there's something wrong and that you are no longer a fan forum. It's quite easy to spot the trolls here by just reading a few threads... those who don't even play but are just on an agenda to bash the game are shining brighter than a star when it goes super nova.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
What a hypocrite, lol.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I don't think this is a fan site, which is why opinions from both sides are allowed. Pick any game and you will find posters who offer positive and negative opinions of the game being discussed.
This website really caters to mmo burnouts who are looking for a new game to play and seeing how long it has been since a decent game has released most people here are well past the point of patience. Many are simply tired of getting their hopes up trying all the poor quality mmos that have released the last several years and sick to death of returning to wow after each one.
I can dig that people are sick of playing wow or it just isn't the gameplay they find entertaining, but I find it strange that they think it lacks quality or professionalism. Honestly if most of the games released in the last few years where made to the same standards (not gameplay, but standards) that blizzard aims for then the mmo market would have most likely been blown wide open years ago.
They are still wrong. So turbine went and copied wow, so please tell us what they copied? Was it the characterdesign where everyone can be a DPS class? Was it the graphic style? You know these cute little buildings without doors that are supposed to be houses? Why do people that claim LotRO is a WoW clone never give any examples? Is it because there are elves and orcs and dwarves so it must be a copy?
I can think of far more differences than parallels, they are not even heading into the same direction if you look for upcoming features. Especially the mechanical differences are vast:
LotRO has:
Wound, Disease, Poison and Fear which you can resist.
Common, Fire, Frost, Shadow, Acid and Lightning which you can mitigate and fall into the categories Melee, Ranged and Tactical.
Parry, Evade and Block, with a hardcap and partial parry, evade and block without one.
Does that sound like WoW? And how about skirmishes or legendary weapons? How about Radiance? All taken from WoW?
Dont think most of us are here to insult players who play whatever game they choose to play. Its more like, all of us give our own opinions, and when some of these opinions speak ill of a game, that games' fanboys rush out to desperately defend their beloved game, and from there onwards that thread/post goes into a downward spiral and gets out of hand.
<QQ moar plz. kkthxbai.>
wow= the dumbest thing u can do. wow alone is killing mmorpg as a whole. cause of it companys now look more for how much many they can make than if they can make a good game.
lets break down the points of the op from his title
1. scope
wow has no real scope. from the get go it was made to get money not be anythingof quality. wow has not a single thing that makes it unique. all it did was copy every mmo before it and then dumb them down so much that a 7 year old could play it.even my 10yo neice said she would never play it cause it looks like u could play it with your pinky toe and sleep at same time lol.
2.professionalism
everyone knows blizzard dont have that. look at their customer service and other things.now before i go on in this i did play wow for about 2 months(2 months i regret more than being dumb and joining navy out of highschool) so these example are from real experience ingame. first ti took them nearly 2 years to get rid of lag.second out of all the petitions all of them took more than 3 days to even get a anwser. i would rather go to fallen earth where most times i can just talk in newbie chat and talk to a gm.third botters where everywhere u couldnt even do any real crafting wheni was playing. it was even proven that the biggest guilds where nothing but botters and they didnt do anything about it till they found someone they could sue for money.and last scammers i havent played in what 4 years but i still recive scam mails from them and blizzard does nothing.out of all the mmos f2p and p2p ive played wow is ony one where for some reason they know i played it and try to scam my account with fake emails about my account(btw since sc2 came out i get ones about it and i dont even own it) that lone nullfies anything short of good pratices fromthem. personlaly i beleive there people inside of blizzard selling account info to scammers.
Umm Wow has disease, poison, fear, fire, frost, shadow, arcane, parry, block and dodge. I'm really not sure where you are going with your comparison. Yeah it sounds pretty much like wow and most mmos to be honest.
I've given you examples before of why I feel that lotro plays very similar to wow. You like to look at some of the finer points of the gameplay and as a result feel that it does't. To each their own, but please realise there are a lot of players and reviewers who acknowledge the similarities even though you don't.
I don't think lotro is a wow clone in the strictest of terms, but I do feel that its core gameplay is very similar to wow (especially at release). So much so that it feels familiar and confortable the moment a player logs in. There is a very tiny learning curve and only minor adjustments in how to play. That doesn't mean there are not cool things or new aspects to the game.
In the end I think that seeing how turbine changed their direction of the game when it was being developed as middle earth online and redisgned it to lord of the rings online in 2005 shows exactly what they were aiming for and that is why the game to many people feels so familiar.
Wow's cool, but there are better games.
This troll has been called a wow fanboi oftenon this site. I normally defend wow becuase most anti-wow post are uncalled for. Becuase YOU ARE LIEING. I posted and refuted your account everyone here that has played daoc knows 300-400 people doesn't even lag. YET you call me a troll. I acttually got footage to quote last night but then was like nahh, becuase you know what i made my point and im stickign with it. YOUR WRONG im sorry wow might have wonderfuly leveling, and bc has great raids, but its network code was never good. And daoc has always supported more pople in one spot than wow , you don'y like it ... too bad but them the facts.
To bad you can't just make stuff up and it will be true. Well you got the makign stuff up part down.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
That's called data mining/sharing/selling, etc. If your email is shared from shoddy sources, or read on a web page, like from other websites about gaming...if someone gets a hold of that email account ( like so many other penis enlargement offers do), you will get an email about your WoW account. The fact that SMTP (email protocol) is so insecure is not Blizzard's fault. I have had 1 WoW account and receive emails about my so called "WoW account" on other email addresses. This has nothing to do with Blizzard's security. So these people, who have nothing better to do in life other than steal from people, will take an off chance that your email address has at one time or another played WoW. The odds are in their favor, to be honest, cuz most people who go on gaming sites have tried WoW at one point or another.
Blizzard can't do anything about people pretending to be them, that's where SMTP fails to be a good email protocol. You must rely on mail filters and security, as well as your own education regarding those emails, but that's another topic altogether.
You may want to revisit the definition of that word in your dictionary. We are not on the Darkfall forum here.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Most grown up people don't spend insane amounts of time on forums of video games they dislike to try to convince the rest of the world they are right to hate them and that everyone else is just stupid. They just move on and play games they like.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
That sounds about right. It's certainly recognisable, enough people here showing signs of being disgruntled, disillusioned, embittered or overtly cynical regarding MMO's to the point that you start to wonder if some people actually like MMO's, exce[t the one they're playing or the one from the past they have a fairytale memory of.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
[1]
Umm you actually said that very thing in post #253. Here is the quote of your own words if you don't believe me.
"Almost everyone who played Everquest bought World of Warcraft.. don't you even understand that. It's just that months later they all went back to their respective games, because WoW didn't provide anythying new, or challenging." Phelcher.
Not that anyone was really taking your hyperbole serious, but you did actually say the very exact thing that you are now denying to have ever said. I even highlighted in in post #254 and quoted the word "everyone" to point out the fallacy of your absolute statement. It sort of makes it hard to believe your protests of "I never said this or that and people are making up things I have said". I'm just saying, you are having enough trouble recallings your own statements, so perhaps you should not go calling other people liars. Make sense?
Not that linking a chart which shows the combined population of EQ/EQ2 going from 880,000 subscribers in nov 2004 to 375,000 subscribers in Feb 2006 supports your claims, even in the most broad and loose sense of things. Somehow you pointing to a chart where the everquest games lost roughly 60% of their playerbase come anywhere close to supporting anything you have claimed. Again, I'm just pointing out the obvious.
[2]
The person who has had about a dozen posts in this thread removed by the moderators for trolling is calling me a troll. Fantastic.
Yea Daffid is right. Everyone has some MMO which is taking his back after some bad new hyped mmo. But there are some which are realy great but they just arent the bestones so we play them for some time even few years but than we can realize now there is no more what it can offer and we move on. There are mostly WoW players trying something and getting back (because WoW has biggest playerbase kinda) but also are there players who just jump from one MMO to other and they are trying to find theirs bestone at market or returning to other game than WoW. For some ppl can be WoW that bad MMO from they are quiting.
I enjoyed so far more than just one MMO what I've always wanted to play is EvE but my gf plays also so... you know. :P But I'm realy looking forward to Guild Wars 2 or Star Wars but I think those star wars wont be so good as they say but we'll see. I just want to play a sci-fi mmo but there is no good except EvE now, imo. Or Jumpgate Evolution could be choice maybe.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
@Rocketeer
I think we are just splittng a lot of hairs now. Are partial parries really that much different in concept from glancing blows or the range of damage absorbed by a shield block? Is the amount of dps that either damage or support classes really make that much difference in HOW they are played? Be the difference 10% or 40%, the mechanics don't really change. These are all the fine points, not the core.
Saying that wow debuffs are nothing more than damage is also being just a bit disingenious. There are plenty of diesease, poisons, magics and effects that do far more things than just damage.
Do we really need to discuss why people don't compare wow/lotro to eq in terms of similarities just because they all have hotbars? Comparing harsh death penalty, force group, directionless spawn camping mob grind centric gameplay to that of quest grind, solo friendly, heavy instanced storyline content? I think it is fairly self evident why no one makes those comparisons.
Sure recently both games have been going their own ways and I agree. To go one step further I think lotro has a lot of differences from wow. From its approach of pvp to the wicked music system to the overall look of the game world. Yet even with all of those differences, it still felt a lot like playing wow or more accurately not different enough than playing wow.
Again none of this is a slam on lotro. I think it is a great game and it excels at telling its story and providing immersion. My point, and this really is my only point, is that the similarities of the gameplay between wow/lotro kept lotro from really capturing a larger portion of the market.
My post wasn't directed specifically at you, but to the forums in general. There are people who come here who post like WoW killed a family member. It's just a game, a very successfull one. Debating the how and why it's successfull is valid, but there are forum posters who cannot even see beyond their anti-wow bias that they discredit anything the game has done. To say WoW doesn't have polish or is poor quality is downright laughable. If other games had the same kind of quality as what Blizzard puts out, those subs would have a ton more subs. Trust me, I wish there was more competition out there right now. I don't think it's good that only one game dominates a genre. But everyone seems to blame Blizzard for this. I say, put the blame on who is responsible for churning out these games, the developers of those titles. It's on them to put out a quality product. It's on them to produce something that doesn't get old and stale after 1 month.
There are games out there that don't get old or stale after 1month besides WOW. I like WOW , but I'm over it. Tired of doing the same thing over and over. I'll try out Cataclysm, but the graphics are getting a little stale for me, personally. Blizz does make good games, and WOTLK is a great XPAC. But I'm tired of doing the same thing over and over and over.
I play the PVE part mostly with experience turned off. Hunt for the most lucrative world/dungeon quests and blue gear in dungeons and then put experience turned on again to level in the Bg's.
A blast. It took me more than a year to get my Dwarf rogue at 79. He's retired now until CATA (only a Stratholme solo run for the rare horse now and then).
It was that good I decided to reroll another Rogue (undead - another angle) with the same goals: becoming Batttlemaster and Conqueror.
Normally it will take till March/April before even reaching 80 that way.
At this scheme WOW needs to be supported till 2020 for me to even reach a handful characters with PvP goals.
The challenge lies within the fun creativeness of the player.
No need to hunt down inferior products with this kind of freedom in even the most basic game mechanism: leveling.
6 years and count the other 10 to follow already.
O yes, I have one main too, but I am not spoiling the fun of the end game more than once.
The game that can give me this kind of choices with the same polishment is not born yet and probably isn't even the next MMO from Blizzard.
But nevertheless, call me if that rare gem will ever drop in the next 5 years.
Why did star wars galaxies subscriptions decline? Seriously you really don't know where all those people went either? Why soe suddenly decided to change swg into a level based quest grinding game with 9 classes? Come on now, please tell me you are joking.
I mean really, even you have to have noticed that your precious charts show almost every western mmo declining at the release of wow and never recovering. Please tell me you at least see that.
Then you say what happened to everquest was unrelated to wow, in this very same thread you said "everyone" in EQ bought a wow account. I'm just curious who you think went out recruiting all those new mmo players to come join wow? It must have been pretty massive since, according to you, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of experienced mmo players were quitting wow to return to their previous mmos at the very same time wow was growing in record numbers.
So please do tell me why EQ subs really declined. I really cannot wait to hear your explaination of that.
Also, if you can't understand why the decline of mmo populations 6 years ago isn't related to a thread about the decline of mmo quality for the last 6 years I just don't know of a more simple explaination for you. This is obvious common sense stuff and I am not sure why you can't grasp it.