Simple answer from my point of view. They have ridiculous funding from all they've made so far, to keep the game tip top polished and introduce neverending content+improvements. Any game that launches now has to compete with this polished giant right from the get-go. For any new mmo that comes out, to try to match this giant, they need everything perfected before launch. To be fair, we should compare launch with launch, but in reality, this does not happen. Everyone compares launch vs WoW at current, so everything fails to deliver.
I have a neigbour , He plays WoW, and he used to play Diablo II and when Starcraft II released he bought that one aswell. But he basically refuses to play any other games.
Why is that ???
Hmm..I think there are several games that has at least the "same" scope as WOW
EQ2 for example and LOTRO aswell..and both of these games are much better than WoW in MY opinion.
The reason why WoW became this or that popular and got so and so many subscribers is unknown still, there are simply so many speculations and the simple one is to say it's good , just look at the population !!
Talking about LOTRO and the like (and I would say that when it comes to gameplay and not the story, LOTRO is a WoW clone), well, LOTRO itself at least has a much less polished feel to it than WoW. I am talking about gameplay mechanics here.
I'm going to have to say that for example when playing LOTRO and engaging in combat in the game, I miss WoW's combat system which just doesn't feel as stiff as the other game's system. I would say that the combat system and the polished feel of it add a lot to WoW being such a popular game.
If you say that LOTRO's gameplay is a WOW clone means that you have never played LOTRO...
------------------------------------------------------------------- waiting for ... nothing..
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I have a neigbour , He plays WoW, and he used to play Diablo II and when Starcraft II released he bought that one aswell. But he basically refuses to play any other games.
Why is that ???
Hmm..I think there are several games that has at least the "same" scope as WOW
EQ2 for example and LOTRO aswell..and both of these games are much better than WoW in MY opinion.
The reason why WoW became this or that popular and got so and so many subscribers is unknown still, there are simply so many speculations and the simple one is to say it's good , just look at the population !!
Talking about LOTRO and the like (and I would say that when it comes to gameplay and not the story, LOTRO is a WoW clone), well, LOTRO itself at least has a much less polished feel to it than WoW. I am talking about gameplay mechanics here.
I'm going to have to say that for example when playing LOTRO and engaging in combat in the game, I miss WoW's combat system which just doesn't feel as stiff as the other game's system. I would say that the combat system and the polished feel of it add a lot to WoW being such a popular game.
If you say that LOTRO's gameplay is a WOW clone means that you have never played LOTRO...
LoTRO is a WoW clone.
So is every other game that's coming out including F2P Asian MMOs now.
Just like how every MMO before WoW was a copy of Everquest.
If you don't agree w/ this, you're either stupid or in denial. (Yes, WoW copied a bunch of small things and put it together, that's obvious).
wow allows you to look like everyone else and be better than most, just by logging more hours. I wouldnt be suprised if there was a brainwashing algorithm placed in a sub frequency to get people hooked.
I have a neigbour , He plays WoW, and he used to play Diablo II and when Starcraft II released he bought that one aswell. But he basically refuses to play any other games.
Why is that ???
Hmm..I think there are several games that has at least the "same" scope as WOW
EQ2 for example and LOTRO aswell..and both of these games are much better than WoW in MY opinion.
The reason why WoW became this or that popular and got so and so many subscribers is unknown still, there are simply so many speculations and the simple one is to say it's good , just look at the population !!
Talking about LOTRO and the like (and I would say that when it comes to gameplay and not the story, LOTRO is a WoW clone), well, LOTRO itself at least has a much less polished feel to it than WoW. I am talking about gameplay mechanics here.
I'm going to have to say that for example when playing LOTRO and engaging in combat in the game, I miss WoW's combat system which just doesn't feel as stiff as the other game's system. I would say that the combat system and the polished feel of it add a lot to WoW being such a popular game.
If you say that LOTRO's gameplay is a WOW clone means that you have never played LOTRO...
LoTRO is a WoW clone.
So is every other game that's coming out including F2P Asian MMOs now.
Just like how every MMO before WoW was a copy of Everquest.
If you don't agree w/ this, you're either stupid or in denial. (Yes, WoW copied a bunch of small things and put it together, that's obvious).
only kids think that every mmo after wow is a wow clone ;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------- waiting for ... nothing..
There's some truth to that fact though. WoW on launch, incorporated many ideas from different mmos during its time. There's only that many ideas you can have distinguishable in an mmo,thus, i find it very difficult to imagine new mmos launching without any resemblance to any of the ideas WoW uses.
the only simple fact here is that MMO like any Industry in the World ALL i mean ALL u take what have been made b4 to upgrade it and make it better u don't Really invent but small things , Car Industry gos this way same for Movies same for..... ect
i keep seeing ppl say wow invented this wow invented that well the Hole wow Universe is taken from others and remade like any other Dragone Movie we see .
am a wow fan my self did play it for 3 years waited it's coming for 7 .
wow is a great game that a fact has many good things .
still i think it has a bad not good Efacet let's say it can Scratch ur Brain lol.
ther's also Very good games out ther like Warhammer it has great pvp i just love it while wow pvp just made me angry .
AOC very Detailed very nice RPG elments and pvp needs reall skil wich has gone now from wow coz it moved to race to 80 and Grind gear all day long.
LOTRO Great PVE xp very nice Socity .
so plz spare me ur flames am not gna read it any way .
that is Facts .
any way if u enjoy a game that's good just don't Turn into a troll over that .
sorry for my bad English wich u all fun with what ever u play
O M G ! ! ! Other useless topic about WoW being best mmo? WoW is just for WoW players noone else like it, its for non-game players, if you are noob and you can push tons of buttons go play WoW if you wanna enjoy PvE go play Lotro, Everquest, Vanguard or others, if you love PvP go play EvE, AoC, GW etc.
WoW is for kids or for ppl who wants most usual mmo stuff together, WoW is lame and today only original thing about WoW is graphic - only thing what I enjoyed here except few dungeons, but PvE is more like solo thing, PvP is only about equipment and Wotlk dungeons? OMG it SUCK as hell! Also ppl at WoW are just farmers of stuff and cant almost enjoy the game.
WoW is a "cult" game just for ppl who love it cause they dont like any other mmo mostly and other mmo players dont like WoW.
P.S. I think WoW could be very great game before but I've tried after BC but mostly Wotlk and that just suck! Guild Wars, Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings or EvE - pick one of em those are the best imo
EDIT: And btw if someone is gona say or said that WoW has more features than any other MMO go to hell Other MMO's have also a lot features and mostly better than WoW.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
O M G ! ! ! Other useless topic about WoW being best mmo? WoW is just for WoW players noone else like it, its for non-game players, if you are noob and you can push tons of buttons go play WoW if you wanna enjoy PvE go play Lotro, Everquest, Vanguard or others, if you love PvP go play EvE, AoC, GW etc.
WoW is for kids or for ppl who wants most usual mmo stuff together, WoW is lame and today only original thing about WoW is graphic - only thing what I enjoyed here except few dungeons, but PvE is more like solo thing, PvP is only about equipment and Wotlk dungeons? OMG it SUCK as hell! Also ppl at WoW are just farmers of stuff and cant almost enjoy the game.
WoW is a "cult" game just for ppl who love it cause they dont like any other mmo mostly and other mmo players dont like WoW.
P.S. I think WoW could be very great game before but I've tried after BC but mostly Wotlk and that just suck! Guild Wars, Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings or EvE - pick one of em those are the best imo
EDIT: And btw if someone is gona say or said that WoW has more features than any other MMO go to hell Other MMO's have also a lot features and mostly better than WoW.
I am glad for you. Helas 12.000.000 don't agree and yes that counts.
As for "us" "noobs", button pushers" and "non gamers" and "suck as hell" fans, I thank you for the tremendous insight and contribution.
O M G ! ! ! Other useless topic about WoW being best mmo? WoW is just for WoW players noone else like it, its for non-game players, if you are noob and you can push tons of buttons go play WoW if you wanna enjoy PvE go play Lotro, Everquest, Vanguard or others, if you love PvP go play EvE, AoC, GW etc.
WoW is for kids or for ppl who wants most usual mmo stuff together, WoW is lame and today only original thing about WoW is graphic - only thing what I enjoyed here except few dungeons, but PvE is more like solo thing, PvP is only about equipment and Wotlk dungeons? OMG it SUCK as hell! Also ppl at WoW are just farmers of stuff and cant almost enjoy the game.
WoW is a "cult" game just for ppl who love it cause they dont like any other mmo mostly and other mmo players dont like WoW.
P.S. I think WoW could be very great game before but I've tried after BC but mostly Wotlk and that just suck! Guild Wars, Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings or EvE - pick one of em those are the best imo
EDIT: And btw if someone is gona say or said that WoW has more features than any other MMO go to hell Other MMO's have also a lot features and mostly better than WoW.
I am glad for you. Helas 12.000.000 don't agree and yes that counts.
As for "us" "noobs", button pushers" and "non gamers" and "suck as hell" fans, I thank you for the tremendous insight and contribution.
Oh yea, maybe I put there more emotions than is necessary but I'm rly pissed off from every post like WoW is best and nothing is better.. Just make it a religion, go to "dungeon" house and pray for WoW 2.0. Most ppl who say WoW is best never tried other MMO's as far as they tried WoW, I met some WoW players in other MMOs and they were sure at low lvl that MMO what they played is crap compared to WoW, but they tried like 1/50 of it.. WoW is just huge grind - PvE is dungeon grind for those items which you need to get better equipment . And PvP is grind for other equpment. No fun for me just grind and grind more. I know every MMO is kinda grind but you can make it at least fun. WoW players are just used to get reward for anything, at Age of Conan some WoW dude told me what is meaning of PvP if there is no true reward for that? How about fun? :P I've never felt such bored as with WoW ppl, at dungeon they just run throught it as fast as they can cause they wanna farm as much as they can and PvP is the same mostly.
I mean I enjoyed kinda playing WoW till 80 but it was only because I played with my friend at group. Other ppl at WoW .. no comment.
And I hope you know that name of this topic is total crap cause if WoW is here 6 years now how can someone compare new MMOs to it cause those just started so they dont have so many datapacks as WoW. And reason why so many ppl plays it is that - huge marketing, well known world for PC game players cause of Warcraft games before. And those ppl just get used to it even if there are other better MMOs. Also some ppl dont want to play other games cause they dont want to "grind" again cause they have spend much time at WoW.
If you are so smart tell me why is WoW better than other MMOs.. and try to compare it to some of em. Thx a lot!
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
@ Azzataky: your second reply was much better. Tx.
As for your question. WOW did innovative things within an existent concept leading to its success. Other MMO's didn't quite catch on due to several shortcomings found in this concept.
I tried to explain it already with 7 points in this thread:
Hmm - alot of strange comments from WOW haters here. Two of the best so far are..
WOW is only for WOW players - they are the only ones that like the game. Really ? yea - biggest group of gamers playing single game title in history of gaming... I wonder.... do 11 million ppl like AOC or WAR enough to pay sub for it ?
Second is even better. WOW has unlimited amounts of funds cause they have become known for making good games and high level of polish. And thats why they can release bugfree and polishes games. Now... What is stopping other companies from doing the same ? Lack of funds ? Why ? Because they released half finished game that half of the player base got burned on and will never trust or support that company again ?
ALL games start with a budget to work with. Its the job of the group in charge to get out a BUGFREE and POLISHED game to begin with. NO MMO development team in the last 5 years (other than LOTRO maybe) could do this. Most of the games are filled with unprofessional work from day one... That inclueds sticking to budget and acutally delivering on time.
BLizzard can be accused of lot of stuff. But noone can say that they are not doing their job well. WOW haters can try. But most of them do not grasp the professional work that goes on - the amount of work gone into the basics - and the bug killing in the latter stages. They are used to the crappy games that realse patch after patch with more bugs that could have been fixed so easliy IF the developer actually cared. But hey.. since some ppl are stupid enough to pay and play for bugs... why on earth should they ?
Maybe because then they might get a bigger playerbase and more money to fix more issues and release better patches and at the same time increase funds for future development ? Haha.. no they dont think that way....
"Its playable - send it out ! Who cares if one or two maps are bugged ? or mobs dissapear through walls. Or few NPCs are not visiable cause they are under the ground so you can't finish a quest. Or that such small issue as a stance or aura class system is broken... or that entire action point system isn't working.... THIS is what the rest of the MMO developers are doing. And ofc ppl run as hell after 1-2 patches. And never pay a dime again for a junk from the same developer.
If you say that LOTRO's gameplay is a WOW clone means that you have never played LOTRO...
I play both games right now, and I definitely confirm LOTRO is a WoW clone. Or at least, that's what Turbine would like it to be if we take a hint from all the changes they made since release.
LOTRO has some great things, mostly the fluff (cosmetics, housing) and the story line, but for the rest, combat dynamics, quantity and quality of content, raiding, PvP, and general game play, WoW is a way superior game. I play LOTRO only because it's Middle Earth and I love Tolkien, and also the fluff content it has, I play on the European roleplay server "Laurelin". If it was just a generic game not based on that story and without roleplay server, I wouldn't play it at all, as WoW does everything else WAY better.
LOTRO has another big thing in common with WoW... it's the ONLY other mainstream MMORPG since WoW's release that was released in a relatively bug free status, and also complete with a ton of content from level 1 to max level and beyond. All the other games have been poorly coded piles of crap full of bugs, or failures with such big design flaws it's not even funny. And even before WoW and LOTRO... DAoC's state at release was so bad, non itemized dungeons, no content past level 30, awful lag when you had more than 20 people on your screen... granted, the server were quite stable, but that's it, the rest was a pile of crap that could never make it today. DAoC, like most "older" games with poor design, only made it because there was little quality concurence back then. Today, those game fail badly (see Conan, and Warhammer...).
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
@ Azzataky: your second reply was much better. Tx.
As for your question. WOW did innovative things within an existent concept leading to its success. Other MMO's didn't quite catch on due to several shortcomings found in this concept.
I tried to explain it already with 7 points in this thread:
You can claim that some of these points are not even your style of play, but the concept hit a stroke with most of its players.
That's what's counting.
Damn I wish my english would be better! :P Because I dont fully understand some of those points.
Yes I agree that WoW did some innovative things back there but I think also did Guild Wars. But its true I dont know that much about kinda "pre-wow" mmo time because only thing I was playing back than was Ragnarok online. And now I'll try to comment some of your points.
About hard and soft mode at WoW.
Its cool that everyone can play it but it also destroy nature of its community, I've almost never met so much hatred against kinda "noobs" as at WoW, first time at group I got a ninja in here for blue item (cause you know steal something from noob is easy :P), instances which I was trying for like 2nd time everyone wanted to run as fast as we can and if we didnt do rly well as they wanted ppl were rly aggresive. And yea, in every MMO are bad people but I've never met so much weird ppl as at WoW.
Before WOW MMO’s had to be played with other people on line for hours and hours … waiting for something “fun” to happen. Glued before your monitor and waiting for that monster to spawn, waiting for hours to find a decent group of a “humble” number of 72 like minded dudes to even start a challenge.
I'm not quite sure I understand this point. If you mean that WoW brought fun all the time (almost ofc) and you don't have to w8 for monster spawn than i disagree a lot.
Also your point about equipment compared to AoC.
Its true that items there were a bit weird from start (dunno how is it now) but I dont like the idea at WoW that you have to farm your equipment so hard, you just have to go every day at least a heroic dungeon to be taken to group for some harder dungeon.
About PvP point.
Wintergrasp is huge mistake I think, all of this mass pvp stuff I dont like much. I mean its cool to fight against so many oponents and also is good to be part of those battles but its always laggy so you cant enjoy it so much. Kinda shame there is gona be world vs world pvp at GW 2 even if i think it will be cool still.. laggy xD
PvP arenas at WoW are great but flag capture is like WoW Unreal Tournament and AB is like Day of Defeat. :P
Btw as I said I didnt understand everything how you mean it so I can compare WoW to Guild Wars which was done a lot and GW is my favourite MMO since I tried many others.
PVE: WoW has open world instead GW has closed instances.
About that - I liked always more open world but GW and closed instanes with henchmens can make rly great party game. WoW PvE is for me way more solo thing compared to GW party focused thing. Hard mode is also here, dual profession which is a lot great thing cause you can do many builds by that. Mission are way interesting even if I always liked dungeons mission are still cool thing. Also feeling you fight at group all the time have improving game element to me. You can always choose different profession to your group so you can be completely useless or you can do as good as never.
But from EoN even GW has dungeons or Zaishen stuff is interesting. Also instanced world makes almost from every map some kind of dungeon on HM.
PvP: Both games has arena PvP and WoW also open world, GW has Guild vs Guild battle also.
As I said at PvE WoW is more solo focused and you can see it even at PvP. Most players doesnt understand well teamplay so far what i played WoW. (At least alliance players ) Guild Wars allow you both pve and pvp, only 8 skills and you use almost always 1 of em as ressurect. So you can take 7 spells in team of 4 or 8 players mostly which make this game rly challenging and you need a lot of skill for it. Also there is no Addon stuff so you dont have any help from any other programs. You need to take skills so you can well cooperate with your teammates so sometimes you can be almost useless against some enemy and sometimes you can beat enemy who should've killed you as nothing.
I just think GW is more party game and skilled focused than WoW. WoW is more noob friendly and solo game.
P.S. I'm not sure if I picked everything what i wanted and if I understand all of yours points so you are free to help me with that. :P
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
Yeah Korrigan is obviously a troll or had a bad computer. I remember 300-400 man fights with limited lag (very playable, WG is worse).
The only "trolls" here are those who spend more time posting on this WoW forum bashing the game than posting on the forum of their supposed favorite game or just playing their favorite game. Too bad you can't avoid childish insults.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
If you say that LOTRO's gameplay is a WOW clone means that you have never played LOTRO...
I play both games right now, and I definitely confirm LOTRO is a WoW clone. Or at least, that's what Turbine would like it to be if we take a hint from all the changes they made since release.
LOTRO has some great things, mostly the fluff (cosmetics, housing) and the story line, but for the rest, combat dynamics, quantity and quality of content, raiding, PvP, and general game play, WoW is a way superior game. I play LOTRO only because it's Middle Earth and I love Tolkien, and also the fluff content it has, I play on the European roleplay server "Laurelin". If it was just a generic game not based on that story and without roleplay server, I wouldn't play it at all, as WoW does everything else WAY better.
Ah, Laurelin, good server. I agree, they should never have taken the route of adopting traits from WoW, epecially the 'stylized' look. I read the books, I watched the impressive interpretation of them by Stephen Jackson in the movies and then seeing and first hour playing LotrO was kind of a letdown. I wouldn't have minded if they'd gone more for a EQ-style and atmosphere, but then upgraded to current graphics level and MMO mechanics.
Plus the LotrO characters and character animations are unimpressive and the controls and combat aren't at WoW level. And personally I think it was a bad choice not to deepen the PvP to the norm you see in other MMO's.
The world in LotrO feels vast though, it has that real vast, large-world kind of feel that you want in a MMO.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Guild Wars is not even a MMORPG, Azzataky. And this doesn't come from me, but from the developers of the game themself.
The comparison with a "real" MMORPG, be it DAoC, WoW, EQ, AC, AO or any other doesn't make sense, just like comparing Diablo to them wouldn't make sense.
GW is a game where the only "persistant" place is a sort of graphical chat room, and the "world" (which isn't a world, but only instances) can only be "explored" (there's actually no exploration at all) by small groups of players.
Guild Wars 2 seems to have opted for a real MMORPG design, but Guild Wars 1 has nothing to do in a discussion dealing with MMORPGs, just like Diablo has nothing to do in it. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Guild Wars is not even a MMORPG, Azzataky. And this doesn't come from me, but from the developers of the game themself.
The comparison with a "real" MMORPG, be it DAoC, WoW, EQ, AC, AO or any other doesn't make sense, just like comparing Diablo to them wouldn't make sense.
GW is a game when the only "persistant" place is a sort of graphical chat room, and the "world" (which isn't a world, but only instances) can only be "explored" (there's actually no exploration at all) by small groups of players.
Guild Wars 2 seems to have opted for a real MMORPG design, but Guild Wars 1 has nothing to do in a discussion dealing with MMORPGs, just like Diablo has nothing to do in it. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
Its kinda solo game online someone can say. But still this game is online, has some kind of RPG features and its multiplayer. And you are wrong, GW has huge world to explore. And both games are kinda solo friendly, WoW cause you can do 80 almost solo and GW because of henchmen. But still in both games you need group for some stuff. Especialy some GW mission from NF, even factions or EoN are rly hard without other players. And yea I know dungeons at wow are not doable without party.
I love GW so much because its a lot different from any other game. (They just tried to do something different, not totaly but at least they tried and they were succesfull.) But still hard to compare those two because they are so different. But if I would have to choose open world game I think I would choose Vanguard. (Its true I've never tried it too much but diplomacy and crafting were lot fun.)
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online Playing: CS:GO
No, a "world" doesn't consist in a series of instances you can select. A "world" is an open place you can get lost in, and you can freely explore without having to go back to a "graphical chatroom". There's no such thing in Guild Wars.
Agreed on Vanguard, though. Vanguard has a real and huge world, possibly the best of all recent MMORPGs since Asheron's Call. Too bad the rest of the game mostly sucks, mostly because of bad design decisions and also very poor programming. I went back for a month this summer to see what has changed... and didn't renew my subscription for a second month.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Its kinda solo game online someone can say. But still this game is online, has some kind of RPG features and its multiplayer. And you are wrong, GW has huge world to explore. And both games are kinda solo friendly, WoW cause you can do 80 almost solo and GW because of henchmen. But still in both games you need group for some stuff. Especialy some GW mission from NF, even factions or EoN are rly hard without other players. And yea I know dungeons at wow are not doable without party.
I love GW so much because its a lot different from any other game. (They just tried to do something different, not totaly but at least they tried and they were succesfull.) But still hard to compare those two because they are so different. But if I would have to choose open world game I think I would choose Vanguard. (Its true I've never tried it too much but diplomacy and crafting were lot fun.)
It's true that GW has a lot in common with current MMO's: it has a large world with contiguous zones, the familiar quests and 'missions' a la AoC and FFXI, the familiar classes and trinity combat seen in other MMO's - although team combat in GW could be so much more -, the leveling progress with skills and so on.
It certainly is more of a MMO than APB and comes with its structure of instanced areas and city hubs maybe closest to DDO, which is considered an MMO. You could say that either both should be tagged MMO's, or both shouldn't.
But even if all the areas form 1 consistent world map even more so than EQ zones, GW lacks the 'one persistent world' feature which is considered a defining trait of current MMO's, and that's why the ANet makers themselves have tagged their own game as a CORPG.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i keep seeing ppl say wow invented this wow invented that well the Hole wow Universe is taken from others and remade like any other Dragone Movie we see .
Someone can say that lotro is a wow clone, but that doesn't mean they are saying wow invented anything. Those are two completely different statements.
Yeah Korrigan is obviously a troll or had a bad computer. I remember 300-400 man fights with limited lag (very playable, WG is worse).
The only "trolls" here are those who spend more time posting on this WoW forum bashing the game than posting on the forum of their supposed favorite game or just playing their favorite game. Too bad you can't avoid childish insults.
It's the same thing with every thread on these forums. As a matter of fact, there are more anti-wow posters on these forums then wow fans. It's basically an anti-wow cesspool. Alot of that has to do with the moderation, or lack thereof. Which is ironic since the sticky post about increased moderation has this:
Negativity is perfectly fine and welcome on our forums. However, negativity without an opinion to back it up , such as, "This game sux!" is not acceptable, and is considered trolling. Colloquialisms such as "DorkFail" for Darkfall also fall into this category. If you do not like a game, explain why. Posting that you do not like a game in most every thread about said game is also considered trolling, and is unnecessary.
The fact of the matter is most of these people are jealous. Anything that's the big dog will always have it's group of haters because it's the big dog. The exact same thing happened in Everquest's heyday. Now it's the greatest thing ever. The concept even goes beyond MMO's. Something like the Wii has it's haters for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate the iphone for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate WoW for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'.
Comments
You are discussing this with a straight face aren't you ?
I see: alert me if you even can find 200 people on a DAoC server these days, let alone they would fight in one place.
When people discuss this blindfolded it is not difficult to understand WOW's dominance in the marketplace.
Simple answer from my point of view. They have ridiculous funding from all they've made so far, to keep the game tip top polished and introduce neverending content+improvements. Any game that launches now has to compete with this polished giant right from the get-go. For any new mmo that comes out, to try to match this giant, they need everything perfected before launch. To be fair, we should compare launch with launch, but in reality, this does not happen. Everyone compares launch vs WoW at current, so everything fails to deliver.
<QQ moar plz. kkthxbai.>
most wow players don't play other mmo's. And they never will. Doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. I left wow due to its immature community
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waiting for ... nothing..
If you say that LOTRO's gameplay is a WOW clone means that you have never played LOTRO...
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waiting for ... nothing..
http://www.camelotherald.com/news/
Right side downa bit population 1300-2100.
Odd no.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
LoTRO is a WoW clone.
So is every other game that's coming out including F2P Asian MMOs now.
Just like how every MMO before WoW was a copy of Everquest.
If you don't agree w/ this, you're either stupid or in denial. (Yes, WoW copied a bunch of small things and put it together, that's obvious).
wow allows you to look like everyone else and be better than most, just by logging more hours. I wouldnt be suprised if there was a brainwashing algorithm placed in a sub frequency to get people hooked.
only kids think that every mmo after wow is a wow clone ;-)
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waiting for ... nothing..
There's some truth to that fact though. WoW on launch, incorporated many ideas from different mmos during its time. There's only that many ideas you can have distinguishable in an mmo,thus, i find it very difficult to imagine new mmos launching without any resemblance to any of the ideas WoW uses.
<QQ moar plz. kkthxbai.>
LOL OMG LOTRO is WOW clone XDDD omg can't stop lool
meh what a fan boy
the only simple fact here is that MMO like any Industry in the World ALL i mean ALL u take what have been made b4 to upgrade it and make it better u don't Really invent but small things , Car Industry gos this way same for Movies same for..... ect
i keep seeing ppl say wow invented this wow invented that well the Hole wow Universe is taken from others and remade like any other Dragone Movie we see .
am a wow fan my self did play it for 3 years waited it's coming for 7
.
wow is a great game that a fact has many good things .
still i think it has a bad not good Efacet let's say it can Scratch ur Brain lol.
ther's also Very good games out ther like Warhammer it has great pvp i just love it while wow pvp just made me angry .
AOC very Detailed very nice RPG elments and pvp needs reall skil wich has gone now from wow coz it moved to race to 80 and Grind gear all day long.
LOTRO Great PVE xp very nice Socity .
so plz spare me ur flames am not gna read it any way .
that is Facts .
any way if u enjoy a game that's good just don't Turn into a troll over that
.
sorry for my bad English wich u all fun with what ever u play
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
O M G ! ! ! Other useless topic about WoW being best mmo? WoW is just for WoW players noone else like it, its for non-game players, if you are noob and you can push tons of buttons go play WoW if you wanna enjoy PvE go play Lotro, Everquest, Vanguard or others, if you love PvP go play EvE, AoC, GW etc.
WoW is for kids or for ppl who wants most usual mmo stuff together, WoW is lame and today only original thing about WoW is graphic - only thing what I enjoyed here except few dungeons, but PvE is more like solo thing, PvP is only about equipment and Wotlk dungeons? OMG it SUCK as hell! Also ppl at WoW are just farmers of stuff and cant almost enjoy the game.
WoW is a "cult" game just for ppl who love it cause they dont like any other mmo mostly and other mmo players dont like WoW.
P.S. I think WoW could be very great game before but I've tried after BC but mostly Wotlk and that just suck! Guild Wars, Age of Conan, Lord of the Rings or EvE - pick one of em those are the best imo
EDIT: And btw if someone is gona say or said that WoW has more features than any other MMO go to hell
Other MMO's have also a lot features and mostly better than WoW.
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
I am glad for you. Helas 12.000.000 don't agree and yes that counts.
As for "us" "noobs", button pushers" and "non gamers" and "suck as hell" fans, I thank you for the tremendous insight and contribution.
Oh yea, maybe I put there more emotions than is necessary but I'm rly pissed off from every post like WoW is best and nothing is better.. Just make it a religion, go to "dungeon" house and pray for WoW 2.0. Most ppl who say WoW is best never tried other MMO's as far as they tried WoW, I met some WoW players in other MMOs and they were sure at low lvl that MMO what they played is crap compared to WoW, but they tried like 1/50 of it.. WoW is just huge grind - PvE is dungeon grind for those items which you need to get better equipment . And PvP is grind for other equpment. No fun for me just grind and grind more. I know every MMO is kinda grind but you can make it at least fun. WoW players are just used to get reward for anything, at Age of Conan some WoW dude told me what is meaning of PvP if there is no true reward for that? How about fun? :P I've never felt such bored as with WoW ppl, at dungeon they just run throught it as fast as they can cause they wanna farm as much as they can and PvP is the same mostly.
I mean I enjoyed kinda playing WoW till 80 but it was only because I played with my friend at group. Other ppl at WoW .. no comment.
And I hope you know that name of this topic is total crap cause if WoW is here 6 years now how can someone compare new MMOs to it cause those just started so they dont have so many datapacks as WoW. And reason why so many ppl plays it is that - huge marketing, well known world for PC game players cause of Warcraft games before. And those ppl just get used to it even if there are other better MMOs. Also some ppl dont want to play other games cause they dont want to "grind" again cause they have spend much time at WoW.
If you are so smart tell me why is WoW better than other MMOs.. and try to compare it to some of em.
Thx a lot!
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
@ Azzataky: your second reply was much better. Tx.
As for your question. WOW did innovative things within an existent concept leading to its success. Other MMO's didn't quite catch on due to several shortcomings found in this concept.
I tried to explain it already with 7 points in this thread:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/288043/page/20
3rd post on the link.
You can claim that some of these points are not even your style of play, but the concept hit a stroke with most of its players.
That's what's counting.
Hmm - alot of strange comments from WOW haters here. Two of the best so far are..
WOW is only for WOW players - they are the only ones that like the game. Really ? yea - biggest group of gamers playing single game title in history of gaming... I wonder.... do 11 million ppl like AOC or WAR enough to pay sub for it ?
Second is even better. WOW has unlimited amounts of funds cause they have become known for making good games and high level of polish. And thats why they can release bugfree and polishes games. Now... What is stopping other companies from doing the same ? Lack of funds ? Why ? Because they released half finished game that half of the player base got burned on and will never trust or support that company again ?
ALL games start with a budget to work with. Its the job of the group in charge to get out a BUGFREE and POLISHED game to begin with. NO MMO development team in the last 5 years (other than LOTRO maybe) could do this. Most of the games are filled with unprofessional work from day one... That inclueds sticking to budget and acutally delivering on time.
BLizzard can be accused of lot of stuff. But noone can say that they are not doing their job well. WOW haters can try. But most of them do not grasp the professional work that goes on - the amount of work gone into the basics - and the bug killing in the latter stages. They are used to the crappy games that realse patch after patch with more bugs that could have been fixed so easliy IF the developer actually cared. But hey.. since some ppl are stupid enough to pay and play for bugs... why on earth should they ?
Maybe because then they might get a bigger playerbase and more money to fix more issues and release better patches and at the same time increase funds for future development ? Haha.. no they dont think that way....
"Its playable - send it out ! Who cares if one or two maps are bugged ? or mobs dissapear through walls. Or few NPCs are not visiable cause they are under the ground so you can't finish a quest. Or that such small issue as a stance or aura class system is broken... or that entire action point system isn't working.... THIS is what the rest of the MMO developers are doing. And ofc ppl run as hell after 1-2 patches. And never pay a dime again for a junk from the same developer.
I play both games right now, and I definitely confirm LOTRO is a WoW clone. Or at least, that's what Turbine would like it to be if we take a hint from all the changes they made since release.
LOTRO has some great things, mostly the fluff (cosmetics, housing) and the story line, but for the rest, combat dynamics, quantity and quality of content, raiding, PvP, and general game play, WoW is a way superior game. I play LOTRO only because it's Middle Earth and I love Tolkien, and also the fluff content it has, I play on the European roleplay server "Laurelin". If it was just a generic game not based on that story and without roleplay server, I wouldn't play it at all, as WoW does everything else WAY better.
LOTRO has another big thing in common with WoW... it's the ONLY other mainstream MMORPG since WoW's release that was released in a relatively bug free status, and also complete with a ton of content from level 1 to max level and beyond. All the other games have been poorly coded piles of crap full of bugs, or failures with such big design flaws it's not even funny. And even before WoW and LOTRO... DAoC's state at release was so bad, non itemized dungeons, no content past level 30, awful lag when you had more than 20 people on your screen... granted, the server were quite stable, but that's it, the rest was a pile of crap that could never make it today. DAoC, like most "older" games with poor design, only made it because there was little quality concurence back then. Today, those game fail badly (see Conan, and Warhammer...).
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Damn I wish my english would be better! :P Because I dont fully understand some of those points.
Yes I agree that WoW did some innovative things back there but I think also did Guild Wars. But its true I dont know that much about kinda "pre-wow" mmo time because only thing I was playing back than was Ragnarok online. And now I'll try to comment some of your points.
About hard and soft mode at WoW.
Its cool that everyone can play it but it also destroy nature of its community, I've almost never met so much hatred against kinda "noobs" as at WoW, first time at group I got a ninja in here for blue item (cause you know steal something from noob is easy :P), instances which I was trying for like 2nd time everyone wanted to run as fast as we can and if we didnt do rly well as they wanted ppl were rly aggresive. And yea, in every MMO are bad people but I've never met so much weird ppl as at WoW.
Before WOW MMO’s had to be played with other people on line for hours and hours … waiting for something “fun” to happen. Glued before your monitor and waiting for that monster to spawn, waiting for hours to find a decent group of a “humble” number of 72 like minded dudes to even start a challenge.
I'm not quite sure I understand this point. If you mean that WoW brought fun all the time (almost ofc) and you don't have to w8 for monster spawn than i disagree a lot.
Also your point about equipment compared to AoC.
Its true that items there were a bit weird from start (dunno how is it now) but I dont like the idea at WoW that you have to farm your equipment so hard, you just have to go every day at least a heroic dungeon to be taken to group for some harder dungeon.
About PvP point.
Wintergrasp is huge mistake I think, all of this mass pvp stuff I dont like much. I mean its cool to fight against so many oponents and also is good to be part of those battles but its always laggy so you cant enjoy it so much. Kinda shame there is gona be world vs world pvp at GW 2 even if i think it will be cool still.. laggy xD
PvP arenas at WoW are great but flag capture is like WoW Unreal Tournament and AB is like Day of Defeat. :P
Btw as I said I didnt understand everything how you mean it so I can compare WoW to Guild Wars which was done a lot and GW is my favourite MMO since I tried many others.
PVE: WoW has open world instead GW has closed instances.
About that - I liked always more open world but GW and closed instanes with henchmens can make rly great party game. WoW PvE is for me way more solo thing compared to GW party focused thing. Hard mode is also here, dual profession which is a lot great thing cause you can do many builds by that. Mission are way interesting even if I always liked dungeons mission are still cool thing. Also feeling you fight at group all the time have improving game element to me. You can always choose different profession to your group so you can be completely useless or you can do as good as never.
But from EoN even GW has dungeons or Zaishen stuff is interesting. Also instanced world makes almost from every map some kind of dungeon on HM.
PvP: Both games has arena PvP and WoW also open world, GW has Guild vs Guild battle also.
As I said at PvE WoW is more solo focused and you can see it even at PvP. Most players doesnt understand well teamplay so far what i played WoW. (At least alliance players
) Guild Wars allow you both pve and pvp, only 8 skills and you use almost always 1 of em as ressurect. So you can take 7 spells in team of 4 or 8 players mostly which make this game rly challenging and you need a lot of skill for it. Also there is no Addon stuff so you dont have any help from any other programs. You need to take skills so you can well cooperate with your teammates so sometimes you can be almost useless against some enemy and sometimes you can beat enemy who should've killed you as nothing.
I just think GW is more party game and skilled focused than WoW. WoW is more noob friendly and solo game.
P.S. I'm not sure if I picked everything what i wanted and if I understand all of yours points so you are free to help me with that. :P
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
The only "trolls" here are those who spend more time posting on this WoW forum bashing the game than posting on the forum of their supposed favorite game or just playing their favorite game. Too bad you can't avoid childish insults.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Ah, Laurelin, good server. I agree, they should never have taken the route of adopting traits from WoW, epecially the 'stylized' look. I read the books, I watched the impressive interpretation of them by Stephen Jackson in the movies and then seeing and first hour playing LotrO was kind of a letdown. I wouldn't have minded if they'd gone more for a EQ-style and atmosphere, but then upgraded to current graphics level and MMO mechanics.
Plus the LotrO characters and character animations are unimpressive and the controls and combat aren't at WoW level. And personally I think it was a bad choice not to deepen the PvP to the norm you see in other MMO's.
The world in LotrO feels vast though, it has that real vast, large-world kind of feel that you want in a MMO.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Guild Wars is not even a MMORPG, Azzataky. And this doesn't come from me, but from the developers of the game themself.
The comparison with a "real" MMORPG, be it DAoC, WoW, EQ, AC, AO or any other doesn't make sense, just like comparing Diablo to them wouldn't make sense.
GW is a game where the only "persistant" place is a sort of graphical chat room, and the "world" (which isn't a world, but only instances) can only be "explored" (there's actually no exploration at all) by small groups of players.
Guild Wars 2 seems to have opted for a real MMORPG design, but Guild Wars 1 has nothing to do in a discussion dealing with MMORPGs, just like Diablo has nothing to do in it. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Its kinda solo game online someone can say. But still this game is online, has some kind of RPG features and its multiplayer.
And you are wrong, GW has huge world to explore. And both games are kinda solo friendly, WoW cause you can do 80 almost solo and GW because of henchmen. But still in both games you need group for some stuff. Especialy some GW mission from NF, even factions or EoN are rly hard without other players. And yea I know dungeons at wow are not doable without party. 
I love GW so much because its a lot different from any other game. (They just tried to do something different, not totaly but at least they tried and they were succesfull.) But still hard to compare those two because they are so different. But if I would have to choose open world game I think I would choose Vanguard. (Its true I've never tried it too much but diplomacy and crafting were lot fun.)
Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
Playing: CS:GO
No, a "world" doesn't consist in a series of instances you can select. A "world" is an open place you can get lost in, and you can freely explore without having to go back to a "graphical chatroom". There's no such thing in Guild Wars.
Agreed on Vanguard, though. Vanguard has a real and huge world, possibly the best of all recent MMORPGs since Asheron's Call. Too bad the rest of the game mostly sucks, mostly because of bad design decisions and also very poor programming. I went back for a month this summer to see what has changed... and didn't renew my subscription for a second month.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
It's true that GW has a lot in common with current MMO's: it has a large world with contiguous zones, the familiar quests and 'missions' a la AoC and FFXI, the familiar classes and trinity combat seen in other MMO's - although team combat in GW could be so much more -, the leveling progress with skills and so on.
It certainly is more of a MMO than APB and comes with its structure of instanced areas and city hubs maybe closest to DDO, which is considered an MMO. You could say that either both should be tagged MMO's, or both shouldn't.
But even if all the areas form 1 consistent world map even more so than EQ zones, GW lacks the 'one persistent world' feature which is considered a defining trait of current MMO's, and that's why the ANet makers themselves have tagged their own game as a CORPG.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Someone can say that lotro is a wow clone, but that doesn't mean they are saying wow invented anything. Those are two completely different statements.
It's the same thing with every thread on these forums. As a matter of fact, there are more anti-wow posters on these forums then wow fans. It's basically an anti-wow cesspool. Alot of that has to do with the moderation, or lack thereof. Which is ironic since the sticky post about increased moderation has this:
Negativity is perfectly fine and welcome on our forums. However, negativity without an opinion to back it up , such as, "This game sux!" is not acceptable, and is considered trolling. Colloquialisms such as "DorkFail" for Darkfall also fall into this category. If you do not like a game, explain why. Posting that you do not like a game in most every thread about said game is also considered trolling, and is unnecessary.
The fact of the matter is most of these people are jealous. Anything that's the big dog will always have it's group of haters because it's the big dog. The exact same thing happened in Everquest's heyday. Now it's the greatest thing ever. The concept even goes beyond MMO's. Something like the Wii has it's haters for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate the iphone for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'. People hate WoW for nothing else because it's successfull and doesn't cater to the 'hardcore'.
See the pattern?