And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
Yeah it did, because your analogy sucked.
It's hard to say an analogy sucks when you have to make personal changes to it, in order to argue against it. What he said was pretty much spot on, in terms of describing WOW's runaway success. At least the factors behind it.
Does that mean WOW isn't a quality product, no. It does mean it changed a lot of the aspects others liked about the genre, in order to usher more users in. It changed the dynamics behind the industry in the same way Mcdonalds did for the burger joint.
People put far to much thought into it, it is what it is, a runaway success due to accessiblity. SO what, you enjoy the Disney of the MMO world, big deal, you like what you like.
Edit- On a bit of further pondering, it struck me that even with those changes, in essence the original anology still stands. It's still all about accessibility.
If WOW really is the be all end all of MMO's why are there still milions of others (MMO fans) dipping into other MMO's? It costs the same, and in some cases it's far cheaper. If it is the definition of a steak experience (MMO), why isn't everyone playing it? As well as, why are there so many jaded MMO vets that hate it?
yeah thats pretty much all the comparison was about, but if they want to continue to argue stupid points, thats fine, I got nothing to say to them if thats the case.
I got nothing against WoW really, I played it for over 5 years. I saw it for what it was during that time period, but played it largely because I had a lot of friends who were in the game playing it and that there would be updates to the game that would cater to my desires.
It was one of the only ways I could play with them since they didn't want to play anything else.
The only thing I truly dislike about WoW is that the warcraft IP is pretty much a huge warhammer ripoff and the WoW community as a whole. Just look at their forums for example. Its like going to that 4chan board when you visit the official forums, except theres no porn. Unless you have nothing better to do than be an obnoxious internet trolly asshole, then the forum is useless.
And this is the kind of nitpicking bullshit I was talking about, the analogy didn't need to be this convoluted like you made it out to be. It is like mcdonalds in that it is quick and easy to pick up and enjoy, but not completely exceptional gourmet food in some important aspects of the game aside from its polish. does it really need to go any further than that? no, it doesn't. that was all that was really needed to know with the comparison.
Yeah it did, because your analogy sucked.
It's hard to say an analogy sucks when you have to make personal changes to it, in order to argue against it. What he said was pretty much spot on, in terms of describing WOW's runaway success. At least the factors behind it.
Does that mean WOW isn't a quality product, no. It does mean it changed a lot of the aspects others liked about the genre, in order to usher more users in. It changed the dynamics behind the industry in the same way Mcdonalds did for the burger joint.
People put far to much thought into it, it is what it is, a runaway success due to accessiblity. SO what, you enjoy the Disney of the MMO world, big deal, you like what you like.
Edit- On a bit of further pondering, it struck me that even with those changes, in essence the original anology still stands. It's still all about accessibility.
If WOW really is the be all end all of MMO's why are there still milions of others (MMO fans) dipping into other MMO's? It costs the same, and in some cases it's far cheaper. If it is the definition of a steak experience (MMO), why isn't everyone playing it? As well as, why are there so many jaded MMO vets that hate it?
He didnt have to make changes to it, it was apples to oranges in its current state.
Actually I left WoW to play Aion. Could you believe it?! I got all the way to 32 before I started having photosensitive epileptic seizures from all the puuurdy lights in the abyss....
No seriously, I played Fallen Earth, Age of Conan, LoTRO and a handful of F2P games before giving it all up to wait instead. Next on my list is: FFXIV, TOR and GW2 in that order. After that it's back to WoW to polish off CATA while I wait for something else that sparks my interest.
I pledge my allegence to no single company and owe my money to no one mmo.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
reading the title on the news page made my brain hurt..
why must people keep talking about wow?? comparing everything to wow???
do you think its even remotely feesible to compare every single game on the planet to 1 ???
makes me wonder if all these WoWterds compare cars the same way... comparing a dodge charger (1969 version) to a 1912 ford model T....
WoW got its popularity from brand names. its based off WC... so the WC lovers flocked to it. its made by blizzard.. so the blizzard die hards flocked to it... little timmy who never played an MMO in their life that wasnt CS... yup flocked to it..
while WoW did quite well bringing newer people to the stagnet MMO field of games... thats all it did.
it did NOTHING to bring new ideas to the gaming field. its got the same monsters that EQ has and that every MMO before it has. just renamed and a new coat of paint... and ork is an ork even if you paint it florencant pink and give it a high squeeky voice
id love to see blizzard make a game that wasnt a repeat of a repeat.. WC... SC... WoW... SC2.... they are all repeating the same games few changes but its all the same..
lets see a new WoW by blizzard that doesnt take anything from WC/WoW or SC... a totally BRAND new blizzard game.....bet it wont happen
Nah it's just the commonsense brigade trying to stomp out idiocy in all it's forms. Whether is blind love of something as fleeting as a single mmo or blind ignorance when trying to belittle a dame good game just because you don't happen to like it. I don't care for many games in the mmo genre, but you don't see me throwing around pointless analogies about britney, mickey D's, vanilla ice cream, boy bands or any other demeaning example in the hopes of stirring up enough opposition for it to make them stick.
I just play mmos to play them, not to recruit, boister or increase revenue for a company that gives more props to my cash than me. And isn't that what it's all about anyway? Companies parting people from their money.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I can't believe u defend wow then Ramonski7??? U seem above that top heavy game.
And that's where you're wrong. I want more people to play ALL mmos. Not just one single mmo. But it's better for me to experience a range of different mmos to better serve the friends I have asking, no? I'm the gateway gamer for a lot of my gaming buddies. I'll fork over my own cash to check something out before them. And let them know if it's worth it for us to get into or not. I did this with LoTRO, AoC, CO, STO, Aion and FFXI.
But if I'm approached by a friend with whom i KNOW is just getting into mmos do you SERIOUSLY think I'm going to recommend that he play UO before he tries anything else? How retarded would that be! Or do you think I'll point him to something a little more populated and geared so he can see how a well-designed mmo can enhance easing into the genre? Then after that he can come with me when he ask: What game are you playing now?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I guess it's all about reputation. Blizzard has been known for making quality games and WOW delivers like all their previous product. Blizzard is also one of the rare company that release games when they are ready, most mmo's these days are rushed out unfinished and bugged. It's easy to see why WOW is still on top.
Many hundred more devs and millions of more dollars?
I mean just look at the credits, Blizz have more people making their intros than many devs have making their game! Blizz have over a thousand QA staff (look how many are listed on other dev teams)
There was one of the business people in the industry said that at this stage someone would have to spend a billion dollars to match WoW and they probably aren't wrong. Six years in now everything else pales by comparison because they have had time to refine it even further, that early success (which even they admit was a degree of luck, and 'right place right time' with a simple, well executed game, and then they have just built on it, because the money generated lets them re-invest.
Now MMO companies are between a rock and a hard place, as they can't possibly compete, espcially when we as players are always trying to compare WoW in year six with a new launch, and not WoW in US launch (EU players were lucky most of the kinks were ironed out, but the US release of WoW was not without it problems)
There will never be another WoW, the next WoW will be nothing like WoW (and there is a good chance Blizzard will make it )
In my opinon no other game has been as large a commercial success because...
1) Minimum Requirements are in general lower than competitors allowing more potential customers, and leaving it as one of the few viable options for others.
2) Released at an opportune time.
-Internet accessibility exploded.
-Negative steroetypes regarding online gaming and MMOs diminished.
3) At release was less buggy at times than the competitors (new code base that hadn't been hacked up and changed by so many people things broke because of shortcut fixes that had been implemented over years and years that had unintended reprecussions).
4) People wanted something new at the time of the WoW release.
5) Marketing, something most MMOs still do not do (though the amount of money available to Blizzard has surely helped).
6) There has been a massive change in the customer expectations. People now expect...
-Limited MINOR bugs, nothing more.
-Availability of content at launch to compete with a game 5+yrs in the making.
-PvP AND PvE intermingled to allow a greater amount of choice.
-Graphic improvements with the same network stability as a 5+yr game.
-Fun, indepth storyline, lore etc.
7) Familiarity. People who have spent time in WoW have made some pretty tight knit social networks, they are also aware that WoW is the most populated P2P game, therefore there is little fear or concern of anything going wrong, lacking groups etc that can accompany a new game. This also means the first hurdle or bad experience leads many back to the game that makes them feel safe and secure, WoW.
8) People want a challenge right? Surely they must! It can't all be about the ease of item aquisition and feeling accomplishment? Can it?
9) Most popular. As comical as it may sound some people stick with WoW and will continue to for as long as the game is in the percieved 'lead'. Much like there are people whose taste in music is dictated to them by the top 10 at any given week. Most popular must mean the best right?
I personally think WoW is a great game. WAR was a great game too though missed on a few things. There have been many successful MMOs released since WoW, and granted a few flops, though people seem to think unless a game has 5 million + subscribers it's a dead game.
It's not for me any longer but that doesn't detract from it's accomplishments and Blizzard's savvy business sense.
However, after the ball started rolling on WoW in the beginning and it started to become obvious it was going to be huge (well beyond anyone's expectations) the money available to Blizzard would have allowed it to cement itself a strong lead by doing what many games could only dream of within their budget.
So really the answer to the OP's question would be money. Lots and lots of money.
Thats not saying MMO developments don't have large budgets nowadays, they do, however like many mainstream media the people investing the money care only about their return and risk aversion in business is pretty prevelant. Many therefore end up chasing the market leader rather than do their own thing and make a name for themselves.
Many hundred more devs and millions of more dollars?
I mean just look at the credits, Blizz have more people making their intros than many devs have making their game! Blizz have over a thousand QA staff (look how many are listed on other dev teams)
There was one of the business people in the industry said that at this stage someone would have to spend a billion dollars to match WoW and they probably aren't wrong. Six years in now everything else pales by comparison because they have had time to refine it even further, that early success (which even they admit was a degree of luck, and 'right place right time' with a simple, well executed game, and then they have just built on it, because the money generated lets them re-invest.
Now MMO companies are between a rock and a hard place, as they can't possibly compete, espcially when we as players are always trying to compare WoW in year six with a new launch, and not WoW in US launch (EU players were lucky most of the kinks were ironed out, but the US release of WoW was not without it problems)
There will never be another WoW, the next WoW will be nothing like WoW (and there is a good chance Blizzard will make it )
I don't think that would be the case. You can't always "re-create" success like you did the 1st time, especially in this market. One thing most WoW~fanboys seem to really and honestly ignore is that the one area they were original in was the fact that they had the original storyline from Warcraft and, therefore, the elements from that were used in WoW. Years from now if Blizzard were to "create" another mmo they'd only have Starcraft as something from a basis to create a mmo and I don't see that happening given the development of the 2 other games for the series.
If and when they do make a Starcraft mmo, I can see them doing well from the onset just do to strong support from their fanbase for starcraft. However what makes Starcraft a success doesn't simply mean it'll translate into mmo success. Star Wars Galaxies didn't exactly do itself any favors throughout the years and FF didn't either during their initial launch on the console.
But the one thing is for certain, if blizzard makes another mmo, they will also be forced to more or less clone their own Starcraft, its more difficult to create a game and underlying concepts for it from scratch and risk alienating the public and that's where its a bigger question mark. Would Blizzard get off the hook for creating another mmo that has the look and feel of WoW and just isn't WoW? The fact they were targeting the US market solely on launch (which is the stronget mmo market in terms of overall audience) gave them the better headstart than other games it competed with (FF focused initially in Japan and Star Wars had its basis with Star Wars fanboys).
I think statements like this really illustrate the stupidity of the mcdonalds analogy and many similar comparisons in this thread.
As if some mediocre game that lacks quality somehow took the entire industry by storm? Not only that, but it drew in millions and millions of new players that these other "fine dining" games could not attract?
In what bizzaro world does that even remotely make any sense? It doesn't and that is why these claims always fall back to insulting millions of people as being incapable of playing some mythical set of mmos that are "hard", being children or some other defeated attack.
Wow has won critical acclaim from every corner of the industry that rank in the 90%+ range. Well maybe not the burned out mmo flunkies of mmorpg.com, but I digress. Love it or hate it, nothing can change that and wow has become the standard other games are measured by... and often die by. You can talk about hamburgers all you want, but the industry has spoken.
Sure 6 years later wow isn't fresh and exciting as it was at release and most people here are simply burned out of playing wow style games (and the lack of a decent replacement on the same quality level), but just looking at the early reviews of EQ2 vs WoW tells a very clear story of how much wow stood above the rest of the genre on release. Look at the scores and listen to the words used to describe each game. Really listen to the words used to describe the games and notice the drastic difference in tone and reception.
High streamlined and conducive to short or long play sessions
Exciting, action-packed combat
Elegant, easy-to-use interface
Excellent music and sound.
Negatives:
Some stability issues immediately following launch
Player-versus-player elements not complete.
Now keeping within the scope of this threads topic, the years after eq2/warcraft release have been filled with rubbish and failure on scales we have never seen before. Games costing nearly 100 million dollars have suffered so badly they can barely hold more than a few servers open, even after breaking initial sales records. Sales that bested those of warcraft at release.
Another one of those posts that don’t put the finger on the success of WOW.
Let’s see where Blizzard did innovate…
Before WOW, MMO’s were known for their unresponsive and lacking controls of the avatars, after WOW was published, MMO’s were known for the unresponsive and lacking controls…
As these are … video games you play for thousands of hours. Imagine the value of this innovation.
Before WOW MMO’s had to be played with other people on line for hours and hours … waiting for something “fun” to happen. Glued before your monitor and waiting for that monster to spawn, waiting for hours to find a decent group of a “humble” number of 72 like minded dudes to even start a challenge.
As these are video games you play for thousands of hours. Cutting on the time losses and time drains of someone’s (short) life was innovative.
WOW includes play with a gradual difficulty. Very hard modes both in PvE and PvP are in the same world as very soft modes. Your grandmother can play and have success … on her level. She’ll never get to Wrathful Gladiator but perhaps even she can be crucial and heal a warrior in a BG and find some honor boots after a win at he age of 67.
Itemisation and fine tuning up to and beyond 0.1 % of the stats after EVERY patch. I still remember playing AoC at launch and finding boots at level 7 that were better than level 58’s had. You saw players running around with the same gear for 40+ levels. Even Dungeon Siege on the PSP had better itemisation tables than AOC at launch.
A standard patch and expansion plan: No other MMO to have a perfected 6 months upgrade plan throughout all playing styles. The lull between 3.3 and 4.0 is a real exception to this and I even think they do it on purpose: CATA is really a restart of things.
A PvP that doesn’t endanger the PVE experience and still offers a challenging competition for those wanting a rated/achievement personal status with titles and bragging rights. Conquering a besieged fortress and having access to a resultant Raid content every 2.5 hours is a brilliant idea … because 4-5 hours is the absolute max of present day attention spans. PvP battles last 30 minutes max. because the losing side quits after this time (if not earlier)… Blizzard is the only one thinking about the losers in PvP.
I could go on. But the above are innovative game mechanics and not shown in other products on the same scale and level.
No it was not a question of timing, lore, luck or marketing.
It is a question of pure fun "game" design. Something MMO's simply lack in general. They concentrate far too much on time drains (be that monster kills or spawns) without fun elements.
All the usual WOW bashers entered and not one found an element that could counter the above
Now add another one I just remembered to the list above:
Open seamless worlds (with excellent background loading) where you can go to the top of that mountain and dive into the deep blue seas with underwater worlds. Only see one blink when you do a portal and THEN combine it with instances -- NOT to load graphics but to enhance the experience of the protected group to have fun.
The above explains the 100 million income dollars/month . They have to earn that money every day from paying satisified clients.
No mmorpg.com posters can counter those paid votes...
You think "your" preferred MMO is "better" than WOW: well do the test and check each of those 7 points above agianst your preferred (old or non published hyped ) game. Start with number one and see where it's at ... in relation to the real "gaming" elements.
I'm drunk and haven't read any of the other replies but...I came back to WoW a few months ago and abosutely fell in love with it again. It offers so much content, lore, fun pvp/pve and the new WOTLK zones/Dalaran are freaking awesome. Blizzard did so much right its unbelievable. They appear to really care about their subsribers and constantly add new content. I played WoW for 2+ years when it first came out and I will still in high school. I took a couple year break and said I hated it. I tried new mmos and replayed old ones, but when I came back I found that WoW is truly a supberb game. Playing a shadow priest was great, and I remembered all the reasons why I played the game so damn much in the beginning.
The only thing I do not like about it, and this is the reason I do not play any more, is that it is a real skinner box. It uses basic mechanisms to get you to keep playing, like rewarding you for good behavior and punishing you for bad. You get caught in a mindset of grinding out quests/achievements/rep in order to gain new gear that will become weak in the next patch. Philisophically, I don't think this is really ethical at all. It does something very subtle to the human subconscious that I don't think is worth subscribing to. The only reason why I don't think Blizzard is an unethical company is because they are only following the basic script that mmos follow. Hopefully future MMOs like GW2 will change this finally, because it really does detrimental things to people's social lives. I started playing WoW again and immediately I spent ~8 hours a day power leveling to 80, only to eventually grind for new equiptment. Luckily I caught myself and cancelled my sub.
My second paragraph my contradict my first, but currently I think I'm done with mmos for a while. Actually I'm moving to a new city and not bringing my gaming computer for the first semester, as I'd rather learn artistic hobbies and get laid rather then level a nonexistent character (actually I hate this argument, because something that doesn't exist in flesh and bone doesn't mean it isn't meaningful).
In any case, Blizzard did an awesome job. But I hope new MMOs change the general model in the future and make games that are consistently fun and casual. Fuck hardcore gamers trying to direct what direction the market should go, they are the minority and only care so goddamn much because they don't do anything else in their life.
Yeah, drunk at 1am, cynical and a fast typer. Goods nights all!
First.. What is so open and seamless to WoW at "end game"........ NOT a DAMN THING.. The only thing open and seamless at end game is doing a handful of dailys and WG every 2.5 hours.. Once you hit max level 90% of your game is instanced.. such as Dungeons, Raids, Arenas and Battleground.. So if I was your I would revise you comment and stance to "open and seamless leveling to 80, then instancing after that"...
I'm still waiting for the serious explanation on why "hard capped" raids are better way to run raids vs open limit.. I'm still waiting why instanced housing is better vs. none.. I'm still waiting to hear why a simplistic economy game is better vs complex meaningful player economy.. I'm still waiting to hear why battlegrounds is better vs contested zones and areas that effect the game world from day to day.. I keep asking and it seems as always my request keep getting ignored or glanced over..
First.. What is so open and seamless to WoW at "end game"........ NOT a DAMN THING.. The only thing open and seamless at end game is doing a handful of dailys and WG every 2.5 hours.. Once you hit max level 90% of your game is instanced.. such as Dungeons, Raids, Arenas and Battleground.. So if I was your I would revise you comment and stance to "open and seamless leveling to 80, then instancing after that"...
I'm still waiting for the serious explanation on why "hard capped" raids are better way to run raids vs open limit.. I'm still waiting why instanced housing is better vs. none.. I'm still waiting to hear why a simplistic economy game is better vs complex meaningful player economy.. I'm still waiting to hear why battlegrounds is better vs contested zones and areas that effect the game world from day to day.. I keep asking and it seems as always my request keep getting ignored or glanced over..
It's not better, but that doesn't mean it's worse either, it's just different. As to why, easy, it's more accessible to everyone. With instanced raids everyone has their chance at a boss while on open world raids they don't. I for one would love if they added a whole continent in wow that is pvp contested with many strategic points that give some advantages,special items etc or if they added stuff like the old 4 dragons, maybe that would make me play it again, but even if they don't that does not make it a bad game.
apparently i have to say it again, wow appeals to the low intelligence instant grattification sado masochistic masses that want to be punished for spending 15$ a month. if you want a game with good graphics challenging play and quests that will take you a year or more to play, well wow dont do that no more, it used to offer a pvp ladder you could climb the ranks of for a challenge but that was the first thing they cut to make it easy mode boring for the low iq masses appeal back when bc came out. your average wow fan ranks between stale cheese and sour mayonase on a standardized test these days, but if you actually enjoy wow you dont care, because you just dont posses the ability too. good day.
First.. What is so open and seamless to WoW at "end game"........ NOT a DAMN THING.. The only thing open and seamless at end game is doing a handful of dailys and WG every 2.5 hours.. Once you hit max level 90% of your game is instanced.. such as Dungeons, Raids, Arenas and Battleground.. So if I was your I would revise you comment and stance to "open and seamless leveling to 80, then instancing after that"...
I'm still waiting for the serious explanation on why "hard capped" raids are better way to run raids vs open limit.. I'm still waiting why instanced housing is better vs. none.. I'm still waiting to hear why a simplistic economy game is better vs complex meaningful player economy.. I'm still waiting to hear why battlegrounds is better vs contested zones and areas that effect the game world from day to day.. I keep asking and it seems as always my request keep getting ignored or glanced over..
It's not better, but that doesn't mean it's worse either, it's just different. As to why, easy, it's more accessible to everyone. With instanced raids everyone has their chance at a boss while on open world raids they don't. I for one would love if they added a whole continent in wow that is pvp contested with many strategic points that give some advantages,special items etc or if they added stuff like the old 4 dragons, maybe that would make me play it again, but even if they don't that does not make it a bad game.
Ooops.. when I mean open raids.. I actually mean that as OPEN cap raid.. meaning I would toss the 10/25 hard cap in the trash and bring back the days, that NO one gets sent home because of a raid cap limit.. Bring all your friends.. Sometimes a boss can be dropped by 10 people, some by 15 or 20 or 25 or even 40.. Let everyone join in on a raid.. In my opinion by doing so would minimized the efffect of Gear Score and other exclusionary tools of the game..
To me.. hard cap limits are a poorer design.. UNLESS you want to publically call raiding an E-Sport.. So have to ask Blizzard.. which is it.. E-Sport or Social raid..... Because of their stance is social raid.. then they FAIL
WoW does not have the largest scope nor is necessarily the most professional MMORPG out there. It is the most accessible and most popular P2P experience available today, without a doubt.
I find WoW to be boring, short-sighted, terrible on visuals and even worse on customization. It delivers nothing I really want out of a MMORPG, except lots of people to play with, and is the epitome of a generic game in my eyes. To each their own though, and I hold nothing against the people who play and enjoy WoW.
On a side note, it did make for one great South Park episode.
OH got ya.. ty.. not sure why 6 yr old reviews come into play for a current day topic.. but ok.. LOL
You really don't understand why the original reviews of wow from 6 years ago are relevent in a discussion title that starts with "6 years on, still nothing touchers wow...."
Why is it even the smallest details need to be explained to you.
Phelcher stop calling others kids please; You can't write one post without emotional outbursts and your anger reflects in every reply. Only because you tell others 'to stfu' and call them high school dropouts doesnt mean you are more mature. I am surprised you are not reported yet.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Kaltoum, he can't. He is under the impression that insulting people makes his arguments better and that somehow makes him an intelligent and mature person.
Could not, because even without the Asian market Wow took the western market by storm and brought in millions of players. I really wish you would do a little research before you start talking. Seriously just a little google searching would most likely stop you from making half of the BS posts you do.
SOE most certainly did try to capture the Asian market with everquest2. It was called Everquest2 East. Why do you think they created the SOGA models for EQ2? The end result was that soe closed every venture they tried to get the Asian market. LINK
LOTRO is most certainly trying to enter the Asian market and was pretty damn sure they would be successful. LINK It sure looks like LOTRO went into beta for Asia in 2007. LINK
So yeah, the Asian market is a little harder to enter into, let alone win over. Seeing that a western based game not only dominated in the west, but also the east speaks all that needs to be said. You can repeat your nonsense all you want, but a mediocre product did not take the genre by storm and kick every other mmo to the back seat.
[2]
Those comments were not mine, they were the gamespot review comments. If you are not going to read the links provided, please don't comment on them.
Anyhow, something to keep in mind. The EQ2 comments were made before the reviewer even played wow. That was just how impressive EQ2 and the rest of the market was. "Fairly conventional, get ready for the online RPG grind".
As for your comments about the release condition of EQ2 and WoW, are you sure it is me who has blinders on?
I have been playing mmorpgs since 1999 and played WoW at Euro launch (was in March 2004 I think) for like three months and then went back to EQ2. After 6 years, a lot of games inbetween, a mmorpg theme breack of 6 months (due to time constrains) and the death of my GFX (replaced it with my emergency old 2006 card) I just decided to play it again last month as a summer filler until one of the tittles I am waiting for releases (and buy my new GFX based on the needs for them).
Know what? Starting from scratch (and not being burned out with it like a lot of current mmorpg players) I am having more fun with it than I have had with tle lattest big (and not that big) tittles released all these years. Sure, some features, classes, graphics etc... were better on other mmorpgs and I am missing this and that but overall, as a whole, WoW feels a lot better than all of them.
So not surprise here for me.
As to the OP question why this is this way? It is simple. Nothing to do with Blizzard they just put a quality standart but with all the rest of mmorpg companies releasing subpar games, highly overhyped before release (By fans & Devs alike) that fail to deliver and/or the negative parts outweight by far the positives ones and people finally leave them (or the ones that deliver, like EVE, have a feel, theme or mechanics that interest a smaller % of mmorpg gamers).
Comments
yeah thats pretty much all the comparison was about, but if they want to continue to argue stupid points, thats fine, I got nothing to say to them if thats the case.
I got nothing against WoW really, I played it for over 5 years. I saw it for what it was during that time period, but played it largely because I had a lot of friends who were in the game playing it and that there would be updates to the game that would cater to my desires.
It was one of the only ways I could play with them since they didn't want to play anything else.
The only thing I truly dislike about WoW is that the warcraft IP is pretty much a huge warhammer ripoff and the WoW community as a whole. Just look at their forums for example. Its like going to that 4chan board when you visit the official forums, except theres no porn. Unless you have nothing better to do than be an obnoxious internet trolly asshole, then the forum is useless.
What game did you leave wow for Ramonski7???
Played Wow, D and L, AOC, GW, Eve, Rift and many more insignificant games.
He didnt have to make changes to it, it was apples to oranges in its current state.
Actually I left WoW to play Aion. Could you believe it?! I got all the way to 32 before I started having photosensitive epileptic seizures from all the puuurdy lights in the abyss....
No seriously, I played Fallen Earth, Age of Conan, LoTRO and a handful of F2P games before giving it all up to wait instead. Next on my list is: FFXIV, TOR and GW2 in that order. After that it's back to WoW to polish off CATA while I wait for something else that sparks my interest.
I pledge my allegence to no single company and owe my money to no one mmo.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
reading the title on the news page made my brain hurt..
why must people keep talking about wow?? comparing everything to wow???
do you think its even remotely feesible to compare every single game on the planet to 1 ???
makes me wonder if all these WoWterds compare cars the same way... comparing a dodge charger (1969 version) to a 1912 ford model T....
WoW got its popularity from brand names. its based off WC... so the WC lovers flocked to it. its made by blizzard.. so the blizzard die hards flocked to it... little timmy who never played an MMO in their life that wasnt CS... yup flocked to it..
while WoW did quite well bringing newer people to the stagnet MMO field of games... thats all it did.
it did NOTHING to bring new ideas to the gaming field. its got the same monsters that EQ has and that every MMO before it has. just renamed and a new coat of paint... and ork is an ork even if you paint it florencant pink and give it a high squeeky voice
id love to see blizzard make a game that wasnt a repeat of a repeat.. WC... SC... WoW... SC2.... they are all repeating the same games few changes but its all the same..
lets see a new WoW by blizzard that doesnt take anything from WC/WoW or SC... a totally BRAND new blizzard game.....bet it wont happen
Nah it's just the commonsense brigade trying to stomp out idiocy in all it's forms. Whether is blind love of something as fleeting as a single mmo or blind ignorance when trying to belittle a dame good game just because you don't happen to like it. I don't care for many games in the mmo genre, but you don't see me throwing around pointless analogies about britney, mickey D's, vanilla ice cream, boy bands or any other demeaning example in the hopes of stirring up enough opposition for it to make them stick.
I just play mmos to play them, not to recruit, boister or increase revenue for a company that gives more props to my cash than me. And isn't that what it's all about anyway? Companies parting people from their money.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
And that's where you're wrong. I want more people to play ALL mmos. Not just one single mmo. But it's better for me to experience a range of different mmos to better serve the friends I have asking, no? I'm the gateway gamer for a lot of my gaming buddies. I'll fork over my own cash to check something out before them. And let them know if it's worth it for us to get into or not. I did this with LoTRO, AoC, CO, STO, Aion and FFXI.
But if I'm approached by a friend with whom i KNOW is just getting into mmos do you SERIOUSLY think I'm going to recommend that he play UO before he tries anything else? How retarded would that be! Or do you think I'll point him to something a little more populated and geared so he can see how a well-designed mmo can enhance easing into the genre? Then after that he can come with me when he ask: What game are you playing now?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I guess it's all about reputation. Blizzard has been known for making quality games and WOW delivers like all their previous product. Blizzard is also one of the rare company that release games when they are ready, most mmo's these days are rushed out unfinished and bugged. It's easy to see why WOW is still on top.
Because most developers have been too busy studying WoW and trying to copy it.
Many hundred more devs and millions of more dollars?
I mean just look at the credits, Blizz have more people making their intros than many devs have making their game! Blizz have over a thousand QA staff (look how many are listed on other dev teams)
There was one of the business people in the industry said that at this stage someone would have to spend a billion dollars to match WoW and they probably aren't wrong. Six years in now everything else pales by comparison because they have had time to refine it even further, that early success (which even they admit was a degree of luck, and 'right place right time' with a simple, well executed game, and then they have just built on it, because the money generated lets them re-invest.
Now MMO companies are between a rock and a hard place, as they can't possibly compete, espcially when we as players are always trying to compare WoW in year six with a new launch, and not WoW in US launch (EU players were lucky most of the kinks were ironed out, but the US release of WoW was not without it problems)
There will never be another WoW, the next WoW will be nothing like WoW (and there is a good chance Blizzard will make it
)
In my opinon no other game has been as large a commercial success because...
1) Minimum Requirements are in general lower than competitors allowing more potential customers, and leaving it as one of the few viable options for others.
2) Released at an opportune time.
-Internet accessibility exploded.
-Negative steroetypes regarding online gaming and MMOs diminished.
3) At release was less buggy at times than the competitors (new code base that hadn't been hacked up and changed by so many people things broke because of shortcut fixes that had been implemented over years and years that had unintended reprecussions).
4) People wanted something new at the time of the WoW release.
5) Marketing, something most MMOs still do not do (though the amount of money available to Blizzard has surely helped).
6) There has been a massive change in the customer expectations. People now expect...
-Limited MINOR bugs, nothing more.
-Availability of content at launch to compete with a game 5+yrs in the making.
-PvP AND PvE intermingled to allow a greater amount of choice.
-Graphic improvements with the same network stability as a 5+yr game.
-Fun, indepth storyline, lore etc.
7) Familiarity. People who have spent time in WoW have made some pretty tight knit social networks, they are also aware that WoW is the most populated P2P game, therefore there is little fear or concern of anything going wrong, lacking groups etc that can accompany a new game. This also means the first hurdle or bad experience leads many back to the game that makes them feel safe and secure, WoW.
8) People want a challenge right? Surely they must! It can't all be about the ease of item aquisition and feeling accomplishment? Can it?
9) Most popular. As comical as it may sound some people stick with WoW and will continue to for as long as the game is in the percieved 'lead'. Much like there are people whose taste in music is dictated to them by the top 10 at any given week. Most popular must mean the best right?
I personally think WoW is a great game. WAR was a great game too though missed on a few things. There have been many successful MMOs released since WoW, and granted a few flops, though people seem to think unless a game has 5 million + subscribers it's a dead game.
It's not for me any longer but that doesn't detract from it's accomplishments and Blizzard's savvy business sense.
However, after the ball started rolling on WoW in the beginning and it started to become obvious it was going to be huge (well beyond anyone's expectations) the money available to Blizzard would have allowed it to cement itself a strong lead by doing what many games could only dream of within their budget.
So really the answer to the OP's question would be money. Lots and lots of money.
Thats not saying MMO developments don't have large budgets nowadays, they do, however like many mainstream media the people investing the money care only about their return and risk aversion in business is pretty prevelant. Many therefore end up chasing the market leader rather than do their own thing and make a name for themselves.
I don't think that would be the case. You can't always "re-create" success like you did the 1st time, especially in this market. One thing most WoW~fanboys seem to really and honestly ignore is that the one area they were original in was the fact that they had the original storyline from Warcraft and, therefore, the elements from that were used in WoW. Years from now if Blizzard were to "create" another mmo they'd only have Starcraft as something from a basis to create a mmo and I don't see that happening given the development of the 2 other games for the series.
If and when they do make a Starcraft mmo, I can see them doing well from the onset just do to strong support from their fanbase for starcraft. However what makes Starcraft a success doesn't simply mean it'll translate into mmo success. Star Wars Galaxies didn't exactly do itself any favors throughout the years and FF didn't either during their initial launch on the console.
But the one thing is for certain, if blizzard makes another mmo, they will also be forced to more or less clone their own Starcraft, its more difficult to create a game and underlying concepts for it from scratch and risk alienating the public and that's where its a bigger question mark. Would Blizzard get off the hook for creating another mmo that has the look and feel of WoW and just isn't WoW? The fact they were targeting the US market solely on launch (which is the stronget mmo market in terms of overall audience) gave them the better headstart than other games it competed with (FF focused initially in Japan and Star Wars had its basis with Star Wars fanboys).
I think statements like this really illustrate the stupidity of the mcdonalds analogy and many similar comparisons in this thread.
As if some mediocre game that lacks quality somehow took the entire industry by storm? Not only that, but it drew in millions and millions of new players that these other "fine dining" games could not attract?
In what bizzaro world does that even remotely make any sense? It doesn't and that is why these claims always fall back to insulting millions of people as being incapable of playing some mythical set of mmos that are "hard", being children or some other defeated attack.
Wow has won critical acclaim from every corner of the industry that rank in the 90%+ range. Well maybe not the burned out mmo flunkies of mmorpg.com, but I digress. Love it or hate it, nothing can change that and wow has become the standard other games are measured by... and often die by. You can talk about hamburgers all you want, but the industry has spoken.
Sure 6 years later wow isn't fresh and exciting as it was at release and most people here are simply burned out of playing wow style games (and the lack of a decent replacement on the same quality level), but just looking at the early reviews of EQ2 vs WoW tells a very clear story of how much wow stood above the rest of the genre on release. Look at the scores and listen to the words used to describe each game. Really listen to the words used to describe the games and notice the drastic difference in tone and reception.
EQ2 review
Positives:
Impressive presentation
Wide assortment of character races and classes
Lots of quests; an initially significant amount of content to explore.
Negatives:
Resource hog; some poor performance even on fast machines
No player vs player component
Fairly conventional; get ready for the online RPG grind.
WoW review
Positives:
Huge, beautiful, seamless world
High streamlined and conducive to short or long play sessions
Exciting, action-packed combat
Elegant, easy-to-use interface
Excellent music and sound.
Negatives:
Some stability issues immediately following launch
Player-versus-player elements not complete.
Now keeping within the scope of this threads topic, the years after eq2/warcraft release have been filled with rubbish and failure on scales we have never seen before. Games costing nearly 100 million dollars have suffered so badly they can barely hold more than a few servers open, even after breaking initial sales records. Sales that bested those of warcraft at release.
All the usual WOW bashers entered and not one found an element that could counter the above
Now add another one I just remembered to the list above:
Open seamless worlds (with excellent background loading) where you can go to the top of that mountain and dive into the deep blue seas with underwater worlds. Only see one blink when you do a portal and THEN combine it with instances -- NOT to load graphics but to enhance the experience of the protected group to have fun.
The above explains the 100 million income dollars/month . They have to earn that money every day from paying satisified clients.
No mmorpg.com posters can counter those paid votes...
You think "your" preferred MMO is "better" than WOW: well do the test and check each of those 7 points above agianst your preferred (old or non published hyped ) game. Start with number one and see where it's at ... in relation to the real "gaming" elements.
I'm drunk and haven't read any of the other replies but...I came back to WoW a few months ago and abosutely fell in love with it again. It offers so much content, lore, fun pvp/pve and the new WOTLK zones/Dalaran are freaking awesome. Blizzard did so much right its unbelievable. They appear to really care about their subsribers and constantly add new content. I played WoW for 2+ years when it first came out and I will still in high school. I took a couple year break and said I hated it. I tried new mmos and replayed old ones, but when I came back I found that WoW is truly a supberb game. Playing a shadow priest was great, and I remembered all the reasons why I played the game so damn much in the beginning.
The only thing I do not like about it, and this is the reason I do not play any more, is that it is a real skinner box. It uses basic mechanisms to get you to keep playing, like rewarding you for good behavior and punishing you for bad. You get caught in a mindset of grinding out quests/achievements/rep in order to gain new gear that will become weak in the next patch. Philisophically, I don't think this is really ethical at all. It does something very subtle to the human subconscious that I don't think is worth subscribing to. The only reason why I don't think Blizzard is an unethical company is because they are only following the basic script that mmos follow. Hopefully future MMOs like GW2 will change this finally, because it really does detrimental things to people's social lives. I started playing WoW again and immediately I spent ~8 hours a day power leveling to 80, only to eventually grind for new equiptment. Luckily I caught myself and cancelled my sub.
My second paragraph my contradict my first, but currently I think I'm done with mmos for a while. Actually I'm moving to a new city and not bringing my gaming computer for the first semester, as I'd rather learn artistic hobbies and get laid rather then level a nonexistent character (actually I hate this argument, because something that doesn't exist in flesh and bone doesn't mean it isn't meaningful).
In any case, Blizzard did an awesome job. But I hope new MMOs change the general model in the future and make games that are consistently fun and casual. Fuck hardcore gamers trying to direct what direction the market should go, they are the minority and only care so goddamn much because they don't do anything else in their life.
Yeah, drunk at 1am, cynical and a fast typer. Goods nights all!
Well King.. I see you are at it again..
First.. What is so open and seamless to WoW at "end game"........ NOT a DAMN THING.. The only thing open and seamless at end game is doing a handful of dailys and WG every 2.5 hours.. Once you hit max level 90% of your game is instanced.. such as Dungeons, Raids, Arenas and Battleground.. So if I was your I would revise you comment and stance to "open and seamless leveling to 80, then instancing after that"...
I'm still waiting for the serious explanation on why "hard capped" raids are better way to run raids vs open limit.. I'm still waiting why instanced housing is better vs. none.. I'm still waiting to hear why a simplistic economy game is better vs complex meaningful player economy.. I'm still waiting to hear why battlegrounds is better vs contested zones and areas that effect the game world from day to day.. I keep asking and it seems as always my request keep getting ignored or glanced over..
It's not better, but that doesn't mean it's worse either, it's just different. As to why, easy, it's more accessible to everyone. With instanced raids everyone has their chance at a boss while on open world raids they don't. I for one would love if they added a whole continent in wow that is pvp contested with many strategic points that give some advantages,special items etc or if they added stuff like the old 4 dragons, maybe that would make me play it again, but even if they don't that does not make it a bad game.
apparently i have to say it again, wow appeals to the low intelligence instant grattification sado masochistic masses that want to be punished for spending 15$ a month. if you want a game with good graphics challenging play and quests that will take you a year or more to play, well wow dont do that no more, it used to offer a pvp ladder you could climb the ranks of for a challenge but that was the first thing they cut to make it easy mode boring for the low iq masses appeal back when bc came out. your average wow fan ranks between stale cheese and sour mayonase on a standardized test these days, but if you actually enjoy wow you dont care, because you just dont posses the ability too. good day.
Ooops.. when I mean open raids.. I actually mean that as OPEN cap raid.. meaning I would toss the 10/25 hard cap in the trash and bring back the days, that NO one gets sent home because of a raid cap limit.. Bring all your friends.. Sometimes a boss can be dropped by 10 people, some by 15 or 20 or 25 or even 40.. Let everyone join in on a raid..
In my opinion by doing so would minimized the efffect of Gear Score and other exclusionary tools of the game..
To me.. hard cap limits are a poorer design.. UNLESS you want to publically call raiding an E-Sport.. So have to ask Blizzard.. which is it.. E-Sport or Social raid..... Because of their stance is social raid.. then they FAIL
WoW does not have the largest scope nor is necessarily the most professional MMORPG out there. It is the most accessible and most popular P2P experience available today, without a doubt.
I find WoW to be boring, short-sighted, terrible on visuals and even worse on customization. It delivers nothing I really want out of a MMORPG, except lots of people to play with, and is the epitome of a generic game in my eyes. To each their own though, and I hold nothing against the people who play and enjoy WoW.
On a side note, it did make for one great South Park episode.
You really don't understand why the original reviews of wow from 6 years ago are relevent in a discussion title that starts with "6 years on, still nothing touchers wow...."
Why is it even the smallest details need to be explained to you.
Phelcher stop calling others kids please; You can't write one post without emotional outbursts and your anger reflects in every reply. Only because you tell others 'to stfu' and call them high school dropouts doesnt mean you are more mature. I am surprised you are not reported yet.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Kaltoum, he can't. He is under the impression that insulting people makes his arguments better and that somehow makes him an intelligent and mature person.
[1]
Could not, because even without the Asian market Wow took the western market by storm and brought in millions of players. I really wish you would do a little research before you start talking. Seriously just a little google searching would most likely stop you from making half of the BS posts you do.
SOE most certainly did try to capture the Asian market with everquest2. It was called Everquest2 East. Why do you think they created the SOGA models for EQ2? The end result was that soe closed every venture they tried to get the Asian market. LINK
LOTRO is most certainly trying to enter the Asian market and was pretty damn sure they would be successful. LINK It sure looks like LOTRO went into beta for Asia in 2007. LINK
So yeah, the Asian market is a little harder to enter into, let alone win over. Seeing that a western based game not only dominated in the west, but also the east speaks all that needs to be said. You can repeat your nonsense all you want, but a mediocre product did not take the genre by storm and kick every other mmo to the back seat.
[2]
Those comments were not mine, they were the gamespot review comments. If you are not going to read the links provided, please don't comment on them.
Anyhow, something to keep in mind. The EQ2 comments were made before the reviewer even played wow. That was just how impressive EQ2 and the rest of the market was. "Fairly conventional, get ready for the online RPG grind".
As for your comments about the release condition of EQ2 and WoW, are you sure it is me who has blinders on?
I have been playing mmorpgs since 1999 and played WoW at Euro launch (was in March 2004 I think) for like three months and then went back to EQ2. After 6 years, a lot of games inbetween, a mmorpg theme breack of 6 months (due to time constrains) and the death of my GFX (replaced it with my emergency old 2006 card) I just decided to play it again last month as a summer filler until one of the tittles I am waiting for releases (and buy my new GFX based on the needs for them).
Know what? Starting from scratch (and not being burned out with it like a lot of current mmorpg players) I am having more fun with it than I have had with tle lattest big (and not that big) tittles released all these years. Sure, some features, classes, graphics etc... were better on other mmorpgs and I am missing this and that but overall, as a whole, WoW feels a lot better than all of them.
So not surprise here for me.
As to the OP question why this is this way? It is simple. Nothing to do with Blizzard they just put a quality standart but with all the rest of mmorpg companies releasing subpar games, highly overhyped before release (By fans & Devs alike) that fail to deliver and/or the negative parts outweight by far the positives ones and people finally leave them (or the ones that deliver, like EVE, have a feel, theme or mechanics that interest a smaller % of mmorpg gamers).