There werent that many MMO on the market at that time MMO were still in its cradle and most people refused to pay a monthly fee for a game they allready bought, the singleplayer market were still huge while MMO were just a niche.
Blizzard knew that World of Warcraft would be huge beacuse of one thing.
Warcraft1,2 and 3, Blizzard allready had a HUGE fanbase allready who loved the Warcraft world and lore, and Diablo and Starcraft so It don't take a rocket scientist to figure out what this is going.
For the first time there were a huge amount of gamers who never ever played a MMO before beacuse of that montly fee but all of the sudden Blizzard working on thier beloved Warcraft world in a MMO form and that was the nail that draged in alot of new gamers to the MMO world.
Blizzard used Everquest as a templat to create WoW and basiicly stoled most of the ideas and called it thier own.
While I think Blizzards name and the fan's behind the Warcraft games had a little to do with it. But I doubt that had everything to do with it. For those of us that remember the days leading upto World of Warcraft's launch from beta and the months after. We all remember World of Warcraft was not a instant success right off the bat. It actually took several months before the game really took off. I remember the times where advertisements where all over the place and on MMORPG.com here. There was a huge fight out between EQ2 and WoW at the time. Each one one upping the other as they gained more subscribers.
I remember the advertisements for both WoW and EQ2 when they where claiming they where the king with 100k active players. Then EQ2 would shoot back with "We now have 250k active subscriptions and players." This went back and forth for several months until the 500k mark where EQ2 started to lose a lot of its ground.
What made WoW a huge success was its word of mouth advertising. The 500k players that Blizzard had hooked into WoW spread the word around like wild fire and brought there friends and they theres.
Blizzard never even hit the big time marketing until it broke the 1 million mark and then TV ad's took over.
What made WoW a success was / is us the players spreading the word about the game. Word of mouth can make or break a game no matter how good or bad the game is. That is why WoW was / is a success today and I think Blizzard knows that better then anyone else. It's the reason they do not announce release dates until they know the game will be ready. Unlike most other companys that will just toss a day out there and then force the game out no matter what the state of the game is / was in.
Make no mistakes cause WoW had its share of bugs at launch and its somewhat lacking endgame content. But them bugs did not imped the game in any frustrating way that prevented it from being fun.
The Problem, as to why there are no MMORPG games that come close to WoW, is simply the fact that the WoW haters dont want their fn fav game to be anything like WoW.
By this I mean, even if a idea in WoW was taken from some other popular concept, the WoW haters will disapprove that idea in future games simply because its in WoW.
With a forum fanbase with this kind of mindset, imagine the damage they can have on the Development of new and current MMORPGs.
It doesnt just have to be the haters.
Quite a few dev teams try to accomodate everyones idea and opinions. They will sift through forum posts and see that say 80% of their potential players want a harsh death penalty. So they create a harsh penalty. Next thing they know 70% of that 80% are posting how much the death penalty is too harsh or not what they wanted. These devs end up listening to the vocal players, focusing on features these players like/dislike and spending time they can't really afford trying to get these features in.
Problem is players all have an idea of what they would like in a game, but what you have in your head doesn't always turn out to be what you imagined. Kinda like thinking shooting each other with BB guns would be fun, only to discover that once you are doing it it sucks and hurts like a bitch.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The Problem, as to why there are no MMORPG games that come close to WoW, is simply the fact that the WoW haters dont want their fn fav game to be anything like WoW.
By this I mean, even if a idea in WoW was taken from some other popular concept, the WoW haters will disapprove that idea in future games simply because its in WoW.
With a forum fanbase with this kind of mindset, imagine the damage they can have on the Development of new and current MMORPGs.
While I'm sure that's not the biggest reason, I think you do have a point. I wouldn't say it's just the 'haters' of WoW though. A huge problem with MMOs atm, is that the player-base has gotten itself into a bit of a paradox. Everyone wants something 'new, revolutionary, refreshing', but at the same time they want something familiar. A lot of people will deny this, but every time an MMO comes out promising something new, it gets criticized for both at the same time. If an MMO comes out with similar features, it still gets criticized, but people play it anyway.
It's pretty common knowledge, to people w/ gaming sense, that WoW has taken most of the good aspects of the traditional MMO, and polished them relentlessly. The only way to get away from that model is for not only the publishers to be willing to put out a new type of game (wich we are seeing), but also the player base to support them as a whole. This means players be willing to give newer MMOs a chance, even if there are a couple features you do not like (provided the game as a whole is appealing). After all, the only features we will ever see in upcoming MMOs are ones that business physically see that players want. If you don't show them that, it's very unrealistic to expect that at all.
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
WoW is a business success. And is king of business in MMO"s. It is a gaming failure. Seeing as how most of the player base was not gamers before WoW.
What is with all the hyperbole arguments that people throw around.
You say it was designed for non-gamers, but many others will point to the fanbase of other blizzard games as to why wow has so many subscribers.
If wow was designed for non-gamers, then why did almost half of the population of other games leave the "real mmos" and play wow? I would imagine wow has more experienced mmo players than the next closest p2p game has in total players.
The absurd statements are getting out of hand. Wow is for kids, but point to neilson surveys showing the vast majority of players are 25-54 years old and people just ignore it.
Wow is only successful because of marketing and most wow players have no idea about other mmos. Right, because everything thinks wow is the only mmo ever made and they can't see other mmo boxes sitting right next to wow on the best buy shelf.
I won't disagree that wow is an impressive game... however if you think nothing compares to WOWs scope your game experiences are really limited. WOW isn't even a "very large" world compared to MANY others, it doesn't have more quests or deeper content either... that being said you are correct WOW did do a lot of things right....
I think blizzard probably missed the mark the MOST on point #1 that you mentioned... there are a LOT of unfun things in WOW...
The place blizzard was COMPLETELY on the mark was A) Interface/LUA expansion of it, Polish, wow has it in spades, its very smooth and internally consistent at a level other devs haven't accomplished.
There are a lot of things many developers could take from wow but the important one they've missed and you hit it right on the head-- blizzards attitude towards game development... there IS a reason they've had a ton of huge hits... and it's not because they just throw exorbitant sums of money at problems.
Wow is a gateway game just like Weed is a gateway drug.
When the general public hears MMORPG they think World of Warcraft because of watching TV commercials or the news. Other games simply are not thrown all over the media like WoW is.
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The Problem, as to why there are no MMORPG games that come close to WoW, is simply the fact that the WoW haters dont want their fn fav game to be anything like WoW.
By this I mean, even if a idea in WoW was taken from some other popular concept, the WoW haters will disapprove that idea in future games simply because its in WoW.
With a forum fanbase with this kind of mindset, imagine the damage they can have on the Development of new and current MMORPGs.
While I'm sure that's not the biggest reason, I think you do have a point. I wouldn't say it's just the 'haters' of WoW though. A huge problem with MMOs atm, is that the player-base has gotten itself into a bit of a paradox. Everyone wants something 'new, revolutionary, refreshing', but at the same time they want something familiar. A lot of people will deny this, but every time an MMO comes out promising something new, it gets criticized for both at the same time. If an MMO comes out with similar features, it still gets criticized, but people play it anyway.
It's pretty common knowledge, to people w/ gaming sense, that WoW has taken most of the good aspects of the traditional MMO, and polished them relentlessly. The only way to get away from that model is for not only the publishers to be willing to put out a new type of game (wich we are seeing), but also the player base to support them as a whole. This means players be willing to give newer MMOs a chance, even if there are a couple features you do not like (provided the game as a whole is appealing). After all, the only features we will ever see in upcoming MMOs are ones that business physically see that players want. If you don't show them that, it's very unrealistic to expect that at all.
^This.
Players need to learn to enter a new game with a clean mind. Players need to focus on what the game is, what it has and if those features are fun or not to them. If the game offers features from other games that they like, well thats bonus points. If it doesn't, oh well. But when you want something different, you need to be willing to give different a chance.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Fast food is a bad analogy. WoW is McDonalds, Eve is Taco Bell, who cares? . A better analogy is automobiles. Automobiles have buttons to push, or pedals, a place to store your gear. Some automobiles are faster than others, some are more responsive. . WoW is very cheap to run, is the most responsive, the fastest car out. . Eve requires that you buy at least two automobiles. . All other MMOs are clunkers. Yeah they have their devotees, but nobody who's serious about getting around would waste money on them.
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
WoW is a business success. And is king of business in MMO"s. It is a gaming failure. Seeing as how most of the player base was not gamers before WoW.
That logic makes zero sense. If anything it says just the opposite. If your product is good enough to BRING consumers into your industry, you're doing something right.
WOW sucks and so does pabst beer both have a large customer base. Hense why quanity and quality rarely meet eye to eye.
In fact more people drink boxed wine more then any another type.
Oh yeah, wow sucks its been confirmed and the op is a troll....
Your logic is faulty, you are using an analogy comparing products of different prices. Wow is the same price as all other MMOs so you need to compare items based on similiar price for a good analogy.
There are healthy alternatives to McDonalds with higher quality food. For example alot of sushi, fast-food restaurants exist which is quick to order, healthier and higher quality ingredients. Same could be said about KFC if they would offer a grilled variant of their chicken.
So just because McDonalds/WoW is a huge success does not neccessarily mean they are the best food/game available. I have been around since the late 90s when it comes to MMORPGs and I can tell you that WoW ruined the genre by completely removing the element of unpredictability, risk for reward and world persistance and no every other gaming company out there is trying to ape WoW and thus they too ignore concepts like dynamic, persistant worlds since WoW has no such elements.
So WoW is, imo, bad for the MMORPG genre has it has brought nothing innovative or creative to it but instead brought legions of lazy people who wants MMORPGs to be as easy as their single player games so MMORPGs are now actually, technologically, taking steps backwards. Away from large, persistant, dynamic worlds to static, instanced single player worlds where your actions has no impact on the world what so ever. Why? Well because that is what the stupid, lazy, masses want.
But what the masses want and what is good/healthy/sustainable is not neccessarily the same thing. For example, back in the video tape era there was VHS and the technologically superior BetaMax. And VHS "won" because that is what the masses wanted. Now with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD it was the other way around.
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
I understand that WoW's commercial success was linked to other factors than pure game design quality, but still - many have tried, and no-one has even come close. Why?
The nearest misses to my mind were Warhammer Online (which just didn't pass muster, despite potential, and annoyed everyone madly) and Age of Conan (which made something of a comeback after a disastrous start, but is still a far cry.) Personally, I would also save a shout out for DDO (as an interesting experiment) LORTO (for fan service and music) and Chronicles of Spellborn for a truly unique world (rip). There are a couple of others.
But let's face it. Nothing has come close to replicating what WoW did; and its been six years. There are a couple of potentials on the horizon, but until they appear... meh.
My question is why? What is wrong here?
Six years, which have seen some of the greatest advances in video gaming since the field began. Six years of stupendous amounts of money. Six years of expectation, goodwill, desire, backing, technical capacity - everything you could possibly have wanted. Everything. And yet, nothing touches on WoW, by now an old game.
It is a fascinating phenomenon. Worthy of a PhD.
What on earth is so hard about making a good MMO; and why are Blizzard the only wizards who have been able really to capitalise on the genre's awesome potential?
All I can say is, gad. I don't want to be 60 before the next one comes along. I had really thought we would have seen a new contender by now.
Get a move on people! Get a move on!
Great game for anyone who likes whack a mole, sadly my IQ tells me the game is not worth my time or effort. It is not all about subs and money for me, it is about fun and gameplay WoW does not deliver for me.
The genre is near dead and has been replaced with a creeping death, its a game but not the likes of EQ, UO , or AC. It does not and never will come close to touching the games that are the genre.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Fast food is a bad analogy. WoW is McDonalds, Eve is Taco Bell, who cares?
.
A better analogy is automobiles. Automobiles have buttons to push, or pedals, a place to store your gear. Some automobiles are faster than others, some are more responsive.
.
WoW is very cheap to run, is the most responsive, the fastest car out.
.
Eve requires that you buy at least two automobiles.
.
All other MMOs are clunkers.
I've been playing EVE for 5 years without an alt. Many people play this way, and we're doing just fine. You seem to make a lot of assumptions, don't you?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
WoW is a business success. And is king of business in MMO"s. It is a gaming failure. Seeing as how most of the player base was not gamers before WoW.
That logic makes zero sense. If anything it says just the opposite. If your product is good enough to BRING consumers into your industry, you're doing something right.
WOW sucks and so does pabst beer both have a large customer base. Hense why quanity and quality rarely meet eye to eye.
In fact more people drink boxed wine more then any another type.
Oh yeah, wow sucks its been confirmed and the op is a troll....
Your logic is faulty, you are using an analogy comparing products of different prices. Wow is the same price as all other MMOs so you need to compare items based on similiar price for a good analogy.
There are healthy alternatives to McDonalds with higher quality food. For example alot of sushi, fast-food restaurants exist which is quick to order, healthier and higher quality ingredients. Same could be said about KFC if they would offer a grilled variant of their chicken.
So just because McDonalds/WoW is a huge success does not neccessarily mean they are the best food/game available. I have been around since the late 90s when it comes to MMORPGs and I can tell you that WoW ruined the genre by completely removing the element of unpredictability, risk for reward and world persistance and no every other gaming company out there is trying to ape WoW and thus they too ignore concepts like dynamic, persistant worlds since WoW has no such elements.
So WoW is, imo, bad for the MMORPG genre has it has brought nothing innovative or creative to it but instead brought legions of lazy people who wants MMORPGs to be as easy as their single player games so MMORPGs are now actually, technologically, taking steps backwards. Away from large, persistant, dynamic worlds to static, instanced single player worlds where your actions has no impact on the world what so ever. Why? Well because that is what the stupid, lazy, masses want.
But what the masses want and what is good/healthy/sustainable is not neccessarily the same thing. For example, back in the video tape era there was VHS and the technologically superior BetaMax. And VHS "won" because that is what the masses wanted. Now with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD it was the other way around.
agreed!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
WoW is a business success. And is king of business in MMO"s. It is a gaming failure. Seeing as how most of the player base was not gamers before WoW.
That logic makes zero sense. If anything it says just the opposite. If your product is good enough to BRING consumers into your industry, you're doing something right.
WOW sucks and so does pabst beer both have a large customer base. Hense why quanity and quality rarely meet eye to eye.
In fact more people drink boxed wine more then any another type.
Oh yeah, wow sucks its been confirmed and the op is a troll....
Your logic is faulty, you are using an analogy comparing products of different prices. Wow is the same price as all other MMOs so you need to compare items based on similiar price for a good analogy.
There are healthy alternatives to McDonalds with higher quality food. For example alot of sushi, fast-food restaurants exist which is quick to order, healthier and higher quality ingredients. Same could be said about KFC if they would offer a grilled variant of their chicken.
So just because McDonalds/WoW is a huge success does not neccessarily mean they are the best food/game available. I have been around since the late 90s when it comes to MMORPGs and I can tell you that WoW ruined the genre by completely removing the element of unpredictability, risk for reward and world persistance and no every other gaming company out there is trying to ape WoW and thus they too ignore concepts like dynamic, persistant worlds since WoW has no such elements.
So WoW is, imo, bad for the MMORPG genre has it has brought nothing innovative or creative to it but instead brought legions of lazy people who wants MMORPGs to be as easy as their single player games so MMORPGs are now actually, technologically, taking steps backwards. Away from large, persistant, dynamic worlds to static, instanced single player worlds where your actions has no impact on the world what so ever. Why? Well because that is what the stupid, lazy, masses want.
But what the masses want and what is good/healthy/sustainable is not neccessarily the same thing.
Another bad analogy as well. You are comparing health food with junk fast food. No one is disputing McDonalds is the best food around, they are one of the best fast food places around though price wise. WoW is an MMO like every other MMO, people have the choice to play any of them for most times less than they would pay for WoW. Why is that? They do it, because they like it, in some shape or form.
Save your hatred for other threads; the simple fact is WoW remains king of MMOs for some very simple reasons, amongst which: it works, it has variety, it has a large world full of nooks and crannies to explore, it feels like a real world, and has zones that mostly don't require loading cross boundaries, it has both pve and pvp, its quests are quite fun and creative, there are a gazillion cute touches all over the place, there is genuine character and humor throughout the world etc etc
My question is, why has no other game been able to replicate anything like this?
I understand that WoW's commercial success was linked to other factors than pure game design quality, but still - many have tried, and no-one has even come close. Why?
The nearest misses to my mind were Warhammer Online (which just didn't pass muster, despite potential, and annoyed everyone madly) and Age of Conan (which made something of a comeback after a disastrous start, but is still a far cry.) Personally, I would also save a shout out for DDO (as an interesting experiment) LORTO (for fan service and music) and Chronicles of Spellborn for a truly unique world (rip). There are a couple of others.
But let's face it. Nothing has come close to replicating what WoW did; and its been six years. There are a couple of potentials on the horizon, but until they appear... meh.
My question is why? What is wrong here?
Six years, which have seen some of the greatest advances in video gaming since the field began. Six years of stupendous amounts of money. Six years of expectation, goodwill, desire, backing, technical capacity - everything you could possibly have wanted. Everything. And yet, nothing touches on WoW, by now an old game.
It is a fascinating phenomenon. Worthy of a PhD.
What on earth is so hard about making a good MMO; and why are Blizzard the only wizards who have been able really to capitalise on the genre's awesome potential?
All I can say is, gad. I don't want to be 60 before the next one comes along. I had really thought we would have seen a new contender by now.
Get a move on people! Get a move on!
I'll tell you why because on release the game was frankley unplayable, but the blizzard fanboys of diablo and starcraft and warcraft gave blizzard a life line still subbed and people carried on buying the game until eventually they fixed the bugs, copied every other game out there for ideas.
Wow.. (not the game) talk about a TROLLING thread if I ever read one.. First sentence starts off inviting people to respond in a confrontational way.. There was nothing constructive in this thread whatsoever, other then insight a tug of war argument and start a fanboy type of bonfire.. Everyone likes what they like.. I for one and I lil tired of the McDonalds crowd running around Aspen's Food and Wine festival wearing their oversized sponge hands chanting "we're number 1"..
When are people going to realize that NUMBERs does not equal QUALITY.. my god.. Does examples of McDonalds, Walmart and GM not teach you anything?
Your analogy is horrible. McDonald's, Wal-Mart and GM are all popular because they are cheap yet effective. Explain to me how you could apply this metaphorically to this situation. There are no MMOs that cost more than each other due to quality or service. You pay a streamlined price for a variety of attributes, including community, service, quality and content.
Eating at McDonald's for two will cost you $15 CAD. Eating at a real restaurant, where quality and servoce is assured, will cost you anywhere from $40-$80. By paying more, you receive a mature community, good service, proper quality and varied content.
World of Warcraft is $14.99 a month. Aion is $14.99 a month. SW:TOR will be $14.99 a month.
World of Warcraft has the best service and is most polished game on the market. It has been for a very long time. You are a shining example of someone who has underdog syndrome. You simply dislike the game personally but fail to provide factual evidence as to why it should be compared to something that is viewed as cheap, narrow and unhealthy. If you think you are in bad hands with Blizzard's serivce, then prepare to be disappointed everywhere else because there is no other MMO company that will help you the way Blizzard currently does.
Games have risen and fallen to World of Warcraft. There is no Burger King equivalent. I refute your point. Every MMO on the market since World of Warcraft has declined. Aion is terrible. Warhammer is terrible. Vanguard was terrible. Final Fantasy XIV is going so far off in the wrong direction to attempt innovation to de-throne World of Wacraft that it may as well be in it's own genre.
Care to explain which MMO holds the title of "Aspen's Food" and "Wine Festival" if World of Warcraft is McDonald's?
World of Wacraft's popularity can be attributed to different terms of it's lifetime and why. Previously, it was challenging and meaningful. Currently, it is challengeless and a husk of it's former self. Yet still rewarding to those who are less skilled or who have less time to play.
Yes, the game is too easy, mindless and now it sucks in many people's eyes, including mine. However, to compare World of Warcraft to McDonalds in terms of popularity without properly citing your claims (you have none), you look like an idiot.
Choose a different angle. World of Warcraft is quality. To be able to look at a game and say, "This game is good, but it's not my kind of game" grants you an unbiased tone. Unfortunately, you have been unable to provide that.
Talk about a "troll" reply if I ever read one.
If you look only at the price then yes the McDonalds analogy is not good but there are other things beside price.
McDonalds is:
Accessible, easy to find, is everywhere.Drive-through, etc.
Quick to order, neatly packaged and fast to eat. I.e. fast food.
Does not have anything special about it, just your run of the mill burger and extras but without major flaws. Basically it took the hamburger concept and made it appeal to the mass market.
Ingredients are nothing special, soda, white bread, beef, french fries. Basic ingredients that you can get in any supermarket.
Number 1 fast-food chain in the world and probably the most profitable food chain in the world.
Has relentless marketing.
WoW is:
Accessible and easy to get into. Lots of servers all around the world.
Fast to level and does not take much mental effort to get to level cap or get good equipment
Nothing innovative or creative about the game. It used existing MMORPG elements to create an easy game which caters to the mass market.
Gfx, sound, world size and other technical apects are nothing special. Basic stuff.
Number one MMORPG in the world, when it comes to size and profitability
Probably the most marketing of any MMORPG. Only one, that I have seen, that has ran TV ads.
So just like McDonalds is the biggest and probably most profitable food chain in the world does not mean it is the highest quality one. You can go to a gourmet restaurant and get lots of better ingredients, healthy food. etc. Also there are local restaurants with comparable prices to McDonalds which offer healthier, higher quality food.
So is WoW the biggest and most profitable MMORPG in the world it does not have the best gfx, sound, world size, PvP or innovative features. Hence the comparison.
And yes there is the Burger King of MMORPGs and it is called Aion. You may not like it but it has aprox. 3 million subscribers which is quite good. It has better gfx, better PvP but arguably worse game play and alot less content.
However the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPG world does not exist and that has alot to do with the prize. There is no point in spending lots and lots of money on creating Crysis like GFX, massive and dynamic worlds and hire real people to play raid bosses but then not be able to charge extra for it, which is what gourmet restaurants do.
I dont know why because I would gladly pay €50/month for an MMORPG with above mentioned features. So the comparison to food chains are perfectly valid, it is just that ALL mmorpgs are basically fast-food restaurants of different qualities. And WoW is best because it is the best "fast-food" restaurant but I am personally waiting for the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPGs to be created.
And this is exactly why WoW is compared to McDonalds. Unfortunately your post still won't stop the nit pickers and naysayers. WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs, end of story. I think we will be getting gourmet soon though, so long as no one tampers with the recipes.
I dont know why because I would gladly pay €50/month for an MMORPG with above mentioned features. So the comparison to food chains are perfectly valid, it is just that ALL mmorpgs are basically fast-food restaurants of different qualities. And WoW is best because it is the best "fast-food" restaurant but I am personally waiting for the gourmet restaurants of the MMORPGs to be created.
You really don't know why? Because investors would have to spend unreal amounts of money for a project that couldn't possibly promise a good RoI. Dynamic world? Crysis like gfxx? People to play raid bosses? That would cost a LOT of money. By the time it would be ready to be released they would be strapped for cash, and they would get what, like 200 subscribers because they would have limit their consumer base with crazy requirements (for your crysis gfx), along with the probable limitations on raiding/PvE because your "raid boss" crew would be so limited. I don't think I even need to go into how many less people would even look at video for this game if it cost $50 a month.
I have to say the fast food analogy was pretty bad. It seems like you worked hard on it so I won't bother explaining to you why, somone else already did.
WoW doesn't suck I just disagree that WoW is better in the two areas the OP pointed out. Scope and Professionalism.
EvE kicks WoWs ass in "scope", Quite easily... its not even a debate and honestly there are a bunch of games that can be considered professionally done and managed.
I think there are several issues that would arise if someone jumped on the bandwagon of WoW design.
Copycats usually catch flak
Why redo what was done pretty well?
WoWBlizz had previous successes to fund themselves
I think that WoW is a pretty good game. They now have the funds in excess to feed the fire and continue to build it and adapt it. The fact of the matter is, it is indeed a behemoth. Occasionally there will come a game that will set a standard and will make all others pale in comparison. As people begin to combat the game, they draw others to the game they emulate and thus create MORE customers for the originator.
IMO, there are a few things that would take down WoW.
Graphics - If a company can make an indepth well designed game that will run on many systems and look BETTER than WoW at the same time, I would bow to their skills. WoW is simple enough to run on many systems. Newer games exclude many gamers that can play WoW on medium and now need a Nvidia 8 or ATI 4xxx and up series. The cost on the cards may go down, but how many can change their own cards no matter how trivial it is to do?
Non-fighting activities - lets face it, the crafting in WoW is pretty good IMO. I played multiple 80s to get more and more crafts. I jump into Global Agenda and I can only tweak weapons with Mods...uh...I want to BUILD the gun not just shoot it. It may have changed since I was last on (wish it did). EQ2 had me for a while as I built up my house, I was pretty thrilled at the fact that I could build my house up. If WoW added such, I would consider coming back, lol.
Uniqueness - when I look over I know that I will not see another person around that looks like me in real life. This is a good thing, I scare myself at times. Nonetheless, in WoW this is a thing that does occur. There are simpley not enough character models. Looking at the possibilities in games such as Fallout 3 where the character creation is pretty detailed and you can look a certain way, well, your face can. With the backing that WoW has, they could, albeit with some difficulty, implement a better and more selective body model. They just don't. I would love to have played a fat human rogue with an afro. I don't know why, I just would. If I play a game, I want to know that the chance of someone looking like my toon is so slim that I might as well play the lotto if I do see one. So far, no game has come close to this level of uniqueness
WoW has one heck of a storyline and some wonderful authors. Money talks and gets the talent. WoWBlizzard is not invincible, they have a great product, they have a good foothold, the market and luck smiles on them for now. But, time is not on their side. Soon, the game will out stay its welcome and time will pass it by, but for now, I commend them for their skills in creating a great product.
Am I a fan boy? No, I don't even play the game anymore. I am wandering in no subscription land unhappy with all games currently. I think the next big game will be in a new Genre altogether. I would love to play JGE anytime Netdevil...anytime now.
Rather than do the whole "lets quote this and make a bigger wall~o~text" the simple fact of the matter is that everything that began with Ultima Online and Everquest was more or less perfected within WoW. So before the nuthgging fanboi's or naysayers look at this and get the wrong idea, let me clarify this point. WoW is not like Ultima or Everquest in introducing "game changing dynamics" or "revealing new ways that have world shattering consequences for mmo's". What it does is simply do better and improve upon what other mmo's before it began and invented. Anyone honest enough and with enough gaming experience knows nothing that WoW has done is technically "original"; many of the ideas and concepts are from earlier mmo's and insight they have gained from previous games. This goes on to my next point.
This argument now leads to the fact that WoW is a copy-cat (and if you like Ghost in the Shell here's an analogy from that series in a way), but its also an originator given its capacity to be the first to copy a variety of aspects from various games into its own single world. It has to be understood that if Ultima Online never appeared, mmo's may never have surfaced if Ultima failed. Additionally if EQ never launched many of WoW's basis would've never existed in the first place.
One thing I would say that other posters (whether they are haters or lovers of WoW) is that other games get more attention due to the fact that they do something WoW doesn't and the biggest title brought up is EVE online. It has to be understood that EVE has gone its own path on mmo's and that much of the attention is in fact deserved: it has brought innovations not seen in other mmo's, it is a space mmo's and appeared at a time when it was really fantasy that was available, it is one of the only games out there that increases in population instead of reaching a climax and then decreasing in numbers and it also has introduced dramatic steps as to how developers, company management and players work on the future of the game. It could also be tossed in there that it is the truest sense of a mmorpg with respect to role-playing a game in an open world.
Should this make EVE any lesser (or any other game) lesser than WoW? Not really. I came to the conclusion when thinking about what is a good comparison other than McDonalds and felt James Cameron's Avatar might fill the bill. Familiar script (it really is Pocohontas), minor changes (blue aliens instead of native americans and takes place in the future) and is a financial success! The movie itself however never did anything original or innovative; it wasn't the Matrix or Pixar studios first film Toy Story, it wasn't culmination of so many psychological archetypes as found in Star Wars (yes the trilogy and ONLY the trilogy), it wasn't an innovator of kung fu movies like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon nor was it something uniquely out of the ordinary like ET. However Avatar set itself to do something impressive and large and be successful in the process. Does this mean Avatar is better than all the other films I listed or could've listed? Well financially yes it was better. But that's it really. Being a financial titan doesn't mean anything than just that.
I can understand fanboism and supporting "your game" but sometimes WoW players do take it to the extreme and need to set their arguments on a plain that make sense and are justifiable. WoW is and always will be a good game and does in fact have much going for it. But this doesn't make it the "king of the mmo's" but the most financial and while for some that is enough to be "king", it isn't in my book. And yes I am picking substance and quality and innovation over the financial figures. That's subjective I admit and my own view. But others who feel WoW is the best out there are entitled to their own view.
WoW was a perfect storm. Nothing else will come close to what it did. There are many WoW players who aren't gamers and they won't play another mmo. It is the Pac Man of its day.
It's release timing was perfect. That can only happen once.
There is no "taking WoW down" What Blizzard has done was a complete fluke.
Polish what was already done, shrink it down to accessible (less nerdy) levels, release at the perfect time and have an amazing large Battle.net following willing, no! Dying to toss money at Blizzards next project no matter what it was.
I promise you, Blizzards next MMO will fare just as Well as all the Post WoW mmos have unless they get truly greedy and close WoW down forever and force them to migrate.
I'll say it again, WoW is a massive fluke and Blizzards next mmo will be as successful as every "Wowclone" since then.
Comments
While I think Blizzards name and the fan's behind the Warcraft games had a little to do with it. But I doubt that had everything to do with it. For those of us that remember the days leading upto World of Warcraft's launch from beta and the months after. We all remember World of Warcraft was not a instant success right off the bat. It actually took several months before the game really took off. I remember the times where advertisements where all over the place and on MMORPG.com here. There was a huge fight out between EQ2 and WoW at the time. Each one one upping the other as they gained more subscribers.
I remember the advertisements for both WoW and EQ2 when they where claiming they where the king with 100k active players. Then EQ2 would shoot back with "We now have 250k active subscriptions and players." This went back and forth for several months until the 500k mark where EQ2 started to lose a lot of its ground.
What made WoW a huge success was its word of mouth advertising. The 500k players that Blizzard had hooked into WoW spread the word around like wild fire and brought there friends and they theres.
Blizzard never even hit the big time marketing until it broke the 1 million mark and then TV ad's took over.
What made WoW a success was / is us the players spreading the word about the game. Word of mouth can make or break a game no matter how good or bad the game is. That is why WoW was / is a success today and I think Blizzard knows that better then anyone else. It's the reason they do not announce release dates until they know the game will be ready. Unlike most other companys that will just toss a day out there and then force the game out no matter what the state of the game is / was in.
Make no mistakes cause WoW had its share of bugs at launch and its somewhat lacking endgame content. But them bugs did not imped the game in any frustrating way that prevented it from being fun.
This thread is yet more word-of-mouth advertising for WoW
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Any thread with WoW in the title is bound to go 100+ posts.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
It doesnt just have to be the haters.
Quite a few dev teams try to accomodate everyones idea and opinions. They will sift through forum posts and see that say 80% of their potential players want a harsh death penalty. So they create a harsh penalty. Next thing they know 70% of that 80% are posting how much the death penalty is too harsh or not what they wanted. These devs end up listening to the vocal players, focusing on features these players like/dislike and spending time they can't really afford trying to get these features in.
Problem is players all have an idea of what they would like in a game, but what you have in your head doesn't always turn out to be what you imagined. Kinda like thinking shooting each other with BB guns would be fun, only to discover that once you are doing it it sucks and hurts like a bitch.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
While I'm sure that's not the biggest reason, I think you do have a point. I wouldn't say it's just the 'haters' of WoW though. A huge problem with MMOs atm, is that the player-base has gotten itself into a bit of a paradox. Everyone wants something 'new, revolutionary, refreshing', but at the same time they want something familiar. A lot of people will deny this, but every time an MMO comes out promising something new, it gets criticized for both at the same time. If an MMO comes out with similar features, it still gets criticized, but people play it anyway.
It's pretty common knowledge, to people w/ gaming sense, that WoW has taken most of the good aspects of the traditional MMO, and polished them relentlessly. The only way to get away from that model is for not only the publishers to be willing to put out a new type of game (wich we are seeing), but also the player base to support them as a whole. This means players be willing to give newer MMOs a chance, even if there are a couple features you do not like (provided the game as a whole is appealing). After all, the only features we will ever see in upcoming MMOs are ones that business physically see that players want. If you don't show them that, it's very unrealistic to expect that at all.
What is with all the hyperbole arguments that people throw around.
You say it was designed for non-gamers, but many others will point to the fanbase of other blizzard games as to why wow has so many subscribers.
If wow was designed for non-gamers, then why did almost half of the population of other games leave the "real mmos" and play wow? I would imagine wow has more experienced mmo players than the next closest p2p game has in total players.
The absurd statements are getting out of hand. Wow is for kids, but point to neilson surveys showing the vast majority of players are 25-54 years old and people just ignore it.
Wow is only successful because of marketing and most wow players have no idea about other mmos. Right, because everything thinks wow is the only mmo ever made and they can't see other mmo boxes sitting right next to wow on the best buy shelf.
Did I miss any of the cliques?
I won't disagree that wow is an impressive game... however if you think nothing compares to WOWs scope your game experiences are really limited. WOW isn't even a "very large" world compared to MANY others, it doesn't have more quests or deeper content either... that being said you are correct WOW did do a lot of things right....
I think blizzard probably missed the mark the MOST on point #1 that you mentioned... there are a LOT of unfun things in WOW...
The place blizzard was COMPLETELY on the mark was A) Interface/LUA expansion of it,
Polish, wow has it in spades, its very smooth and internally consistent at a level other devs haven't accomplished.
There are a lot of things many developers could take from wow but the important one they've missed and you hit it right on the head-- blizzards attitude towards game development... there IS a reason they've had a ton of huge hits... and it's not because they just throw exorbitant sums of money at problems.
Shadus
Wow is a gateway game just like Weed is a gateway drug.
When the general public hears MMORPG they think World of Warcraft because of watching TV commercials or the news. Other games simply are not thrown all over the media like WoW is.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
^This.
Players need to learn to enter a new game with a clean mind. Players need to focus on what the game is, what it has and if those features are fun or not to them. If the game offers features from other games that they like, well thats bonus points. If it doesn't, oh well. But when you want something different, you need to be willing to give different a chance.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Fast food is a bad analogy. WoW is McDonalds, Eve is Taco Bell, who cares?
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A better analogy is automobiles. Automobiles have buttons to push, or pedals, a place to store your gear. Some automobiles are faster than others, some are more responsive.
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WoW is very cheap to run, is the most responsive, the fastest car out.
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Eve requires that you buy at least two automobiles.
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All other MMOs are clunkers. Yeah they have their devotees, but nobody who's serious about getting around would waste money on them.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
There are healthy alternatives to McDonalds with higher quality food. For example alot of sushi, fast-food restaurants exist which is quick to order, healthier and higher quality ingredients. Same could be said about KFC if they would offer a grilled variant of their chicken.
So just because McDonalds/WoW is a huge success does not neccessarily mean they are the best food/game available. I have been around since the late 90s when it comes to MMORPGs and I can tell you that WoW ruined the genre by completely removing the element of unpredictability, risk for reward and world persistance and no every other gaming company out there is trying to ape WoW and thus they too ignore concepts like dynamic, persistant worlds since WoW has no such elements.
So WoW is, imo, bad for the MMORPG genre has it has brought nothing innovative or creative to it but instead brought legions of lazy people who wants MMORPGs to be as easy as their single player games so MMORPGs are now actually, technologically, taking steps backwards. Away from large, persistant, dynamic worlds to static, instanced single player worlds where your actions has no impact on the world what so ever. Why? Well because that is what the stupid, lazy, masses want.
But what the masses want and what is good/healthy/sustainable is not neccessarily the same thing. For example, back in the video tape era there was VHS and the technologically superior BetaMax. And VHS "won" because that is what the masses wanted. Now with Blu-Ray and HD-DVD it was the other way around.
My gaming blog
Great game for anyone who likes whack a mole, sadly my IQ tells me the game is not worth my time or effort. It is not all about subs and money for me, it is about fun and gameplay WoW does not deliver for me.
The genre is near dead and has been replaced with a creeping death, its a game but not the likes of EQ, UO , or AC. It does not and never will come close to touching the games that are the genre.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I've been playing EVE for 5 years without an alt. Many people play this way, and we're doing just fine. You seem to make a lot of assumptions, don't you?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
agreed!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Another bad analogy as well. You are comparing health food with junk fast food. No one is disputing McDonalds is the best food around, they are one of the best fast food places around though price wise. WoW is an MMO like every other MMO, people have the choice to play any of them for most times less than they would pay for WoW. Why is that? They do it, because they like it, in some shape or form.
I'll tell you why because on release the game was frankley unplayable, but the blizzard fanboys of diablo and starcraft and warcraft gave blizzard a life line still subbed and people carried on buying the game until eventually they fixed the bugs, copied every other game out there for ideas.
And this is exactly why WoW is compared to McDonalds. Unfortunately your post still won't stop the nit pickers and naysayers. WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs, end of story. I think we will be getting gourmet soon though, so long as no one tampers with the recipes.
You really don't know why? Because investors would have to spend unreal amounts of money for a project that couldn't possibly promise a good RoI. Dynamic world? Crysis like gfxx? People to play raid bosses? That would cost a LOT of money. By the time it would be ready to be released they would be strapped for cash, and they would get what, like 200 subscribers because they would have limit their consumer base with crazy requirements (for your crysis gfx), along with the probable limitations on raiding/PvE because your "raid boss" crew would be so limited. I don't think I even need to go into how many less people would even look at video for this game if it cost $50 a month.
I have to say the fast food analogy was pretty bad. It seems like you worked hard on it so I won't bother explaining to you why, somone else already did.
That's stupid the majority of those names are on Legendary status, ten year olds would know who they are.
What are you trying to prove?
Don't get mad at me because your developers make a game suited for children.
I didn't do it, im only pointing it out lol.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9HMLNJ01.htm
WoW doesn't suck I just disagree that WoW is better in the two areas the OP pointed out. Scope and Professionalism.
EvE kicks WoWs ass in "scope", Quite easily... its not even a debate and honestly there are a bunch of games that can be considered professionally done and managed.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I think there are several issues that would arise if someone jumped on the bandwagon of WoW design.
Copycats usually catch flak
Why redo what was done pretty well?
WoWBlizz had previous successes to fund themselves
I think that WoW is a pretty good game. They now have the funds in excess to feed the fire and continue to build it and adapt it. The fact of the matter is, it is indeed a behemoth. Occasionally there will come a game that will set a standard and will make all others pale in comparison. As people begin to combat the game, they draw others to the game they emulate and thus create MORE customers for the originator.
IMO, there are a few things that would take down WoW.
Graphics - If a company can make an indepth well designed game that will run on many systems and look BETTER than WoW at the same time, I would bow to their skills. WoW is simple enough to run on many systems. Newer games exclude many gamers that can play WoW on medium and now need a Nvidia 8 or ATI 4xxx and up series. The cost on the cards may go down, but how many can change their own cards no matter how trivial it is to do?
Non-fighting activities - lets face it, the crafting in WoW is pretty good IMO. I played multiple 80s to get more and more crafts. I jump into Global Agenda and I can only tweak weapons with Mods...uh...I want to BUILD the gun not just shoot it. It may have changed since I was last on (wish it did). EQ2 had me for a while as I built up my house, I was pretty thrilled at the fact that I could build my house up. If WoW added such, I would consider coming back, lol.
Uniqueness - when I look over I know that I will not see another person around that looks like me in real life. This is a good thing, I scare myself at times. Nonetheless, in WoW this is a thing that does occur. There are simpley not enough character models. Looking at the possibilities in games such as Fallout 3 where the character creation is pretty detailed and you can look a certain way, well, your face can. With the backing that WoW has, they could, albeit with some difficulty, implement a better and more selective body model. They just don't. I would love to have played a fat human rogue with an afro. I don't know why, I just would. If I play a game, I want to know that the chance of someone looking like my toon is so slim that I might as well play the lotto if I do see one. So far, no game has come close to this level of uniqueness
WoW has one heck of a storyline and some wonderful authors. Money talks and gets the talent. WoWBlizzard is not invincible, they have a great product, they have a good foothold, the market and luck smiles on them for now. But, time is not on their side. Soon, the game will out stay its welcome and time will pass it by, but for now, I commend them for their skills in creating a great product.
Am I a fan boy? No, I don't even play the game anymore. I am wandering in no subscription land unhappy with all games currently. I think the next big game will be in a new Genre altogether. I would love to play JGE anytime Netdevil...anytime now.
WinnTech
Rather than do the whole "lets quote this and make a bigger wall~o~text" the simple fact of the matter is that everything that began with Ultima Online and Everquest was more or less perfected within WoW. So before the nuthgging fanboi's or naysayers look at this and get the wrong idea, let me clarify this point. WoW is not like Ultima or Everquest in introducing "game changing dynamics" or "revealing new ways that have world shattering consequences for mmo's". What it does is simply do better and improve upon what other mmo's before it began and invented. Anyone honest enough and with enough gaming experience knows nothing that WoW has done is technically "original"; many of the ideas and concepts are from earlier mmo's and insight they have gained from previous games. This goes on to my next point.
This argument now leads to the fact that WoW is a copy-cat (and if you like Ghost in the Shell here's an analogy from that series in a way), but its also an originator given its capacity to be the first to copy a variety of aspects from various games into its own single world. It has to be understood that if Ultima Online never appeared, mmo's may never have surfaced if Ultima failed. Additionally if EQ never launched many of WoW's basis would've never existed in the first place.
One thing I would say that other posters (whether they are haters or lovers of WoW) is that other games get more attention due to the fact that they do something WoW doesn't and the biggest title brought up is EVE online. It has to be understood that EVE has gone its own path on mmo's and that much of the attention is in fact deserved: it has brought innovations not seen in other mmo's, it is a space mmo's and appeared at a time when it was really fantasy that was available, it is one of the only games out there that increases in population instead of reaching a climax and then decreasing in numbers and it also has introduced dramatic steps as to how developers, company management and players work on the future of the game. It could also be tossed in there that it is the truest sense of a mmorpg with respect to role-playing a game in an open world.
Should this make EVE any lesser (or any other game) lesser than WoW? Not really. I came to the conclusion when thinking about what is a good comparison other than McDonalds and felt James Cameron's Avatar might fill the bill. Familiar script (it really is Pocohontas), minor changes (blue aliens instead of native americans and takes place in the future) and is a financial success! The movie itself however never did anything original or innovative; it wasn't the Matrix or Pixar studios first film Toy Story, it wasn't culmination of so many psychological archetypes as found in Star Wars (yes the trilogy and ONLY the trilogy), it wasn't an innovator of kung fu movies like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon nor was it something uniquely out of the ordinary like ET. However Avatar set itself to do something impressive and large and be successful in the process. Does this mean Avatar is better than all the other films I listed or could've listed? Well financially yes it was better. But that's it really. Being a financial titan doesn't mean anything than just that.
I can understand fanboism and supporting "your game" but sometimes WoW players do take it to the extreme and need to set their arguments on a plain that make sense and are justifiable. WoW is and always will be a good game and does in fact have much going for it. But this doesn't make it the "king of the mmo's" but the most financial and while for some that is enough to be "king", it isn't in my book. And yes I am picking substance and quality and innovation over the financial figures. That's subjective I admit and my own view. But others who feel WoW is the best out there are entitled to their own view.
Those names have no special connection to 12 year olds. They could not care less who jean claude van dam is.
You see them as legendary, because you are thinking like a 31 year old. Thank you for proving the point about who the target market wow is aiming for.
It's release timing was perfect. That can only happen once.
There is no "taking WoW down" What Blizzard has done was a complete fluke.
Polish what was already done, shrink it down to accessible (less nerdy) levels, release at the perfect time and have an amazing large Battle.net following willing, no! Dying to toss money at Blizzards next project no matter what it was.
I promise you, Blizzards next MMO will fare just as Well as all the Post WoW mmos have unless they get truly greedy and close WoW down forever and force them to migrate.
I'll say it again, WoW is a massive fluke and Blizzards next mmo will be as successful as every "Wowclone" since then.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP