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XP gets penalized....
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I think a better idea might be to give increased XP on classes you have not leveled in a while, and no "Rested" xp for the class you have played the most without downtime.
I'll let you all in on a secret. But, shh, don't tell anyone.
If you're suffering from the surplus exp debuff, find a behest that's about to start and take part. It will remove the debuff. ;] (Unless this is a bug in beta and they remove it.)
Im just curious if game developers even play games anymore.
I keep seeing these new games coming out, with these grand ideas, and then when we get the actual product its so far from what was promised or hinted at its unreal. Constant implementations of half finished systems that many times most folks dont even want.
We need some actual gamers to make some games cause developers apparently are extremely out of touch with the player base.
i find all this QQing to be funny their probably not doing this to penalize players like those of us on the boards their probably doing this to get at the Farmers who do nothing but play 24/7/365 then sell the gold for real life cash. Think about the ideas they have before you people start QQing.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Wow. You just sound like a jaded little weirdo. I want to believe the opposite of whatever it is you believe, just because I don't want to sound like that.
Don't worry, if you base your beliefs on what others believe instead of your own thoughts on the matter, you're in no danger of ever sounding like me, because you're a sheep.
You'll fit right in with all the fanbois that convince companies that no matter how little they try, and ship a turd in a box, they will still gladly buy it, giving the devs no incentive to do better, and giving everyone else a turd in a box instead of a decent game.
Sounds nothing like rested exp. What is sounds like is that exp gained decreases to zero after a few hours. At least from Rested to normal exp, you still gain exp. It doesn't drop to no exp gained for kills.
That's nothing! The latest breaking news from the beta is that every time you go up a level................................................................ it takes more experience to get to the next level! *gasp!* And not just that, each time you move up to a higher level enemy, they have more hit points! Damn greedy $-E and their plan to keep people playing for as long as possible!!!
Ironhelix has it mostly right. XP is just a number, as is your level. They can halve the xp rate, triple it, do whatever to it, and you still have to look at the big picture or else you can miss the real result of the change. While it is probably correct to state that players will whine less about a "bonus" than they will about a "penalty", they're still the same thing. And causing everyone to level up more slowly is not a horrible thing. Does anyone complain when the level cap is raised? That makes it take longer to hit the max level! How dastardly!
Let's face it, there is no rate of progression which will magically please everyone. Some will always think it's too slow and others will think it's too fast (although they won't say it's too fast, they'll say the level cap is too low). Finding a happy medium takes some tweaking, and that's what this is. Anything that slows down the fastest and speeds up the slowest has the net effect of making it easier to stagger the content evenly, such that people will keep finding new things to do at the right rate as they progress through the game. It's also worth noting that we still do not know what the level cap is, nor if capping a single class means that you have reached endgame; it could easily be the case that you need to cap multiple classes in order to get your physical level high enough to participate in endgame activities.
(And hey, go have a quick laugh, check out Penny Arcade's comic from back in '04 when WoW beta players first reacted to rest xp, and the accompanying newspost.)
I don't think comparing raising the level cap, giving exp bonuses, or slowing down exp to getting no experience at all is the same at all. Yes those other things will change the rate at which you advance, but the point is that you are still advancing while you play. What I'm reading of this new system is that as soon as you hit your ceiling for the day, nothing you do while playing that 'class' will give you any exp at all to advance you. You are therefore playing for no gains at all after a certain point in the day. Let's compare to rested experience, as soon as you use that all up, guess what you still get exp. Quite a difference in my opinion, and I can see why some see it as punishing a play style.
You don't know a single thing about me. I'm not a fanboy. I was just commenting on how you sounded like a biased prick. That's all. Anything else and you're reading into things that aren't there. Sorry.
I think you might just be really gullible, and wrong. At the moment the game is equalized out like a regular rpg, i.e. YES you need more xp to level and YES monsters give smaller %'s to what you actually need at higher levels. EXCEPT that it's possible to get 20% of that total xp, thus what might be 1 level in a few hours, turn into 15 hours(and eventually infinite) because of surplus. AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO.
Oh what's that, you're in a group of 5 and the healer is at 20% xp gain? "Cya fellas, this surplus is killing me" And there goes the whole damn group.
Does it feel good when people walk on your face? I'm dieing to know.
Are there really people here that think this is 'okay' or that people are overracting for getting upset about suck a feature? I can't begin to fathom such ignorance.
To put this in perspective. Take any MMO you've ever played with rested XP. Now imagine if that existed in reverse. So instead of gaining exp boosts for taking breaks, after playing for a couple hours (yes it's about that quick) you start to get penalized (say upto around -50% of your exp is gained). Would you really enjoy that?
Holy crap, that's another ramification I completely overlooked. And I'm sure it's going to happen. FFXI was heavily group based, and they seem to want to do more to encourage grouping, and you're right, this decision does exactly the opposite.
I know people will still play it, but such decisions make me wonder if they really want their game to do well.
"Oh Square Enix. Please make it more difficult to get anywhere in your game. Perhaps you could remove the armory system and force us wretched servants to purchase a slot for every job when the XP has halted to nothing. Our lives are but your income."
Yep, I think that's the case as well.
While I really don't see the big deal, as this will get people to round out through a bunch of classes/playstyles to bypass it, there will be the issue of being forced to experience the same areas for longer if you tend to put a lot of time in. Most people want to maxout quickly and escape low-level content, though that just leads to circling the later stuff over and over as well. This just makes it happen earlier, in a sense. Could be a good thing, could be bad as well.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
This is what I love about SE. The average gamer goes crying to them about such and such is unfair! Change it now! Their response is a huge loogie in your face. THANK YOU SE!
I'm glad their putting their ideas forward ignoring the masses. WoW went to shit just before the first expansion because of this. They clicked on the "super easy mode" button reducing the amount of aggroing and elite mobs in quests and dramatically reducing the stats on elite mobs.
Looking at SE's track record with FFXI. Anything they add in to penalize players also has a bonus somewhere else. You have to think of the big picture here. SE wants to player to have an adventure. That's what Final Fantasy has always been about - the adventure. It's an MMORPG for the RPG players. A lot of players forget the RP part - even more forget the G part.
The way I see it. This is about as hardcore as it gets. All of you hardcore gamers whining about this - I'm sorry, but you lost your hardcore gaming style with WoW. If you had one at all.
(This is said from a player who knows of FFXI beta and refuses to play XIV as predicted - It's horrific.)
I want to try FF XIV when it comes out but not if they keep doing things like this. Xp penalty is a turn off.
I'm also hoping that they fix the controls via keyboard/mouse.
Which means that in each hour of play, you must weigh the diminishing benefits of continuing to play the same class versus the benefits of switching to another class, or doing some crafting or gathering, or taking part in storyline quests, or exploring and socializing. At some point, you say "it's no longer worth it for me to put another hour into this when I would get more of a benefit from doing something else", so you switch.
At some point.
But that point will be different for every person. Some people who plan to level 4 or 5 classes while maintaining 2 crafts and 2 gathering professions will have no problem switching it up very often and happily progressing very far in each of them as a result. Some people who are basically looking at 1 main, a sub or two, 1 craft and 1 gathering will tolerate the diminishing returns a little more before switching. And people who measure progression purely by their main class's level and little else will not reach that point until they're scraping the bottom of the barrel.
This isn't a decision that other games force upon you, and as a result you really do get a lot of people who would have spent more time doing X or Y but didn't. They didn't because no matter how they looked at it, the benefits of continuously grinding quests or group content never decreased, and so it never made sense to switch to doing something else.
In fact, that made me realize a similarity to WoW dailies. The game says to go ahead and do this, there's a great reward. Then after a certain point, it says stop. Well, it doesn't say "stop"... you can still go do repeatable quests, you just get less of a reward for them for the rest of the day. Take the same concept but put it on a gradual slope instead of plummeting at the magic number 25. Instead of feeling compelled to do exactly 25 in a day (which may leave you with no time for anything else if your play time is limited) and then stop to do something else, it's a system where you're encouraged to go ahead and do it until it's not worth it anymore to you. And that stopping point is going to vary from person to person.
I didn't call you a fanboi, I called you a sheep, a condition most of them suffer from.
I have no bias, in fact I wanted this game to be good, but SE is trying real hard to stop that from happening, adding idiotic things like surplus to cover up their shortcomings instead of fixing whats wrong with the game, and the fanbois are cheering them on.
I guess I'm a prick for expecting decent end game/content , and functional, industry standard UI and controls/combat system for the mouse and keyboard on a PC game after 5 years in development, and because I'm annoyed with people who will try to twist every glaring problem with the game into some kind of a positive because of their cult-like admiration for the company making it.
Anyway, I honestly have no strong feelings towards this game one way or another, I was willing to play it because it looked decent at first glance, but it appears that everyone that keeps making excuses for SE with their rose tinted glasses on will get exactly the game they deserve on release day, so I will have to find another time waster until Rift.
Maybe I'll go fishing more, beats the hell out of playing a clunky fishing minigame in FF14 while waiting for the surplus to dissapear.
It would help a lot if Square would just speak or document clearly about mechanics and stop all their mysterium rhetoric. They are really starting to appear to be idiots, which I know they probably aren't.
Maybe instead of game design books they read too many books about seppuku.
Those hardcore players out there might think it's a little unfair, but the main concept behind it is... Read - we tell you the way it is in Eorzrea sure go ahead and send feedback though. Is the fact that it is unfair or just that people think it is? What about how perception affects result?
Square, like the fan base for this game seems to be, like it or don't and get the F out. Fair enough I guess it's their game I just want to be able to play it.
I'd say I am casual and may never experience the surplus problem, at least I hope anyhow. But I think it's a lame mechanic to implement. They just do everything so weird with this title. PC game with console controls and UI even though console is not being launched at same time and they started design on PC first. Strange exp mechanics and contrived progression limits, feel your way (blind) crafting as an apprentice. Resorting to community for all knowledge transference, do they not realize tribal knowledge isn't scalable in game?
Being eccentric is not being innovative and being innovative does not necessarily mean something good or successful.
I appreciate you trying to view things differently, however in this case you are very much eating what the hand is feeding you.
Since you are no in beta, I'll try and clerify things a bit for you.
1) - This is definitely a new 'feature' the game was not designed for this, it was added recently. Which is why we are seeing such an uproar now, and not months ago.
2) - Yes, playing different classes will circumvent the penalty. That is about the only current way to circumvent the penalty besides not playing the game. However, this creates 2 very real problems.
a) What happens when someone finds a class they actually enjoy. Now all of a sudden they are forced to switch to a different one in order to progress. Now you are harming players who have found an aspect of the game they enjoy.
b) What happens while in a group? Say a key member has reached his penalty for the day. Now what incentive is there for him to stay in the group? Grouping has enough trouble as it is. Would you really want to lose that hard to find class due to something as pointless as an EXP penalty? It will happen, I've seen such things happen again & again in MMOs. When you take away a person's incentive to stay in a group, they leave. Now, I know you could say "well, just have one of the other party members switch classes to fill in the game", however this goes back to (a), as well as what if people don't have that class lvled enough for that area? Or, what if they don't have the right equipment to make that class viable? As you can see there are a ton of problems when looking at the situation from this angle.
3) I agree, and this is my whole stance on the issue if you read my posts. We enjoy an exp boost over an exp penalty. That is how the human brain works, and it is why i'm dumbfounded as to why they didn't choose to go that approach. It would've been so much easier for their publicity to just lower the average exp of mobs, and institute rested EXP. Very simple and relatively painless. Not a whole lot of people would be speaking up about it either, given that it's 'in beta now' and that would be enough of an excuse for most people to swallow.
By choosing to penalize people for playing, instead of rewarding players for taking a break / trying new classes, they are achieving the opposite of what they are intending. They are scaring away customers and angering their fanbase. Even rabid fanboys of the game are having doubts now, and I didn't think that was possible in an FF game. The only reason I can see to even remotely justify this action, is if tthey are trying to buy time to add in the end game content later. However, as we both pointed out, it would still make more sense to lower the average exp per mob and add in rested exp.
Some impressions:
As much as I am a FFXI fan, I completely disagree with FFXIV's line of thinking regarding limiting players.
If you want to do something to help along the "casual players" or the PS3 people who will be left behind, give them more exp when they are logged out. Don't give LESS exp to people who are basically the main ones actually BUILDING the economy from launch day by farming mobs on end and doing tons of things daily. This makes no sense from that standpoint.
I also think that as BAD a decison this is to implement and even though it WILL be in the game on release, the rate of "surplus" exp can always be toned down and we don't know what that will be yet. Heck even regular exp for killing mobs is ALWAYS higher in betas than launches and adjusted later, so there's every reason to believe this extended play penalty will be lowered too at launch... but still in there.
That is to say, even though in beta it was extremely taxing once you acquired it to get rid of, it may be the SE wanted people to try more of the OTHER jobs in BETA. Right now they are data mining and the only way to get data is to make sure they get people to play OTHER JOBS is to penalize them heavily now.. not just stick with one job in full beta. If everyone wants to be a Glad in beta, how do they make peoplle play a Thaumaturge to see what's broken on that? Only way is to make their Glad useless exp wise so they park it.
This is one reason they didn't give us anima replenishment at a faster rate for teleports in beta. They didn't want everyone to simply do some stuff in one area, then warp out to the next without end whenever they wanted and just go get MORE anima.
SE wants people to actually RUN through the zones and say "Hey SE, there is a bug here and I got stuck. This needs to be fixed." Then they see if others got stuck there too. If everyone had unlimited teleports then they don't know where launch day people will be getting glitched at so they limited that, but testers whined about not having anymore anima to just fly around with. You're supposed to be testing the game, not playing for free.
Part of beta is actually supposed to be TESTING the game, which most people don't look at anymore. You're not just supposed to be playing it like you just subbed and are paying. You're supposed to be playing it to find out what's WRONG with it; not to get a head start on what's gonna be the hot items to sell once launch starts, what to keep when you find it or which is the FOTM class to pwn all mobs. But thats how people use betas nowadays so companies do things like this... unfortunately.
I do however, wonder if this is also something that is making them slow down players who play faster because they will reach an endgame that isn't quite ready yet. If this was the case, I'd rather have them come out with "Hey.. the game isn't ready yet. We know you're loyal fans so we will delay it a bit." Most FF fans would be cool with that and we'd wait.
But I'm sure the financial people at SE have other ideas than a develeoper there about a game that has been in production alredy for years.... "GET THIS THING LANUCH NOW SO WE CAN START MAKING SOME INCOME FROM IT BASED ON OUR PROJECTION TABLES!"
"TO MICHAEL!"
As someone said before, what about in a group scenerio: "Well I just got a group together, but unfortunetly the healer was already soloing for 2 hours, so he has about an hour left of time before his xp gain turns to nothing. The tank can become a healer and has the armor, but then we will need a tank. I think the pugilist knew a tank friend, but he is soloing as a tank right now so he won't last long, and the archer can only play for 2 more hours before his xp limit is reached and then he'll go solo mining which will last him another 2 hours and if I switch to archer after 1.5 hours it'll optimize my xp gain... oh god I've gone cross-eyed."
How will this effect later on when it takes 10 hours just to level up once? You know, those levels when the "Xp needed to level" number just starts skyrocketing and it takes the casual player a week to level up once, and the hardcore gamer an entire day of grinding.
And doesn't this also mean there is a limit on how long you can spend xp'ing while mining/botanising? It could take 3 hours just to find those random rare ores! And what about leveling up crafting jobs? *head explodes*
Taru-Gallante-Blood elf-Elysean-Kelari-Crime Fighting-Imperial Agent
Lemme turn this around on you for a sec. Instead of thinking of this as a "penalty" that you have to disband if you don't bring a set of party members with swappable rewards, why not think of that as a norm — since that is the norm right now in all other games, the party is boned when the healer leaves for any reason. That's the norm, and the "bonus" is that you can continuously advance for a much longer time without interruption if you bring multiple people who are able to take turns in the various needed roles.
Instead of saying "we're screwed if party members can't switch classes to offset the surplus", say "we're two steps ahead of everyone else if party members can switch classes to offset the surplus!" After all, the speed at which you level up is relative to everyone else around you. This affects all players, so it is a benefit to the players who work with the system and only a detriment to the players who can't or won't.