Well imo it just looks like a wow clone.. I mean.. the rifts, that's basically just world design. Nothing interesting there. Then there's the build system which pretty cool but it doesn't actually affect the game play (nice for theory crafting though). What other stuff does the game offer that has not been seen before? I'm not trying to troll, but honestly let me know if I missed something.
Dont take this the wrong way but I see your type way too often. I know you say you arent trying to troll but you have 5 posts and first words I read are, WoW clone.
How does the character build not affect gameplay? So you arent going to use your Avatar to play? Because if you are going to use your avatar to play the game, then the character build will come into it.
There hasnt been a good WoW clone to date. I know people TALK about it, but it hasnt exsited. Show me one, and unless its one of those shitty F2p games, I disagree.
WARhammer - Not a wow clone.
AION - Not a WoW clone.
Another poster said it best "We deserve a QUALITY FANTASY MMO."
So wow with new classes (and combined system), dynamic rifts, imo better GFX and a fiew other new features this will be the wow killer for ME.
That is not enough for me. Trion is no noobs so the game might be interesting but if it feels just like Wow it never will be that large. Most Wow players will continue to play Wow until something different shows up, possibly from Blizzard.
And the rest of us MMO players are not so fond about Wow so being similar is not a good thing for them. The IP in itself is new and have no prior fans.
I do note that Scott hartsman is leading Trion now, he used to work on EQ2 so it is possible that EQ2 players know more about Rift than Wow players.
But the fact is that this game is not that know among general players (the kind that don't spend hours on forums like we do) and even if it will be a new Wow with better graphics and better lore I don't think it will get more players than EQ2 or LOTRO.
Bioware have many fans that don't currently play MMOs and I think many of them will try TOR. Arenanet are well known in the MMO genre and are good with demos and getting positive reviews on the gaming sites and in papers like PC gamer.
Trion is rather unknown even if their former boss once made the first few Heroes of might and magic. They need a selling point, something only they can offer to get players. If they don't have one the game will never get that many players.
Wow was made by Blizzard who already had millions of fans in 2004. Trion doesn't so they must really prove to us that this is a great game. If it is just like Wow with a different lore they can't really do that.
Well imo it just looks like a wow clone.. I mean.. the rifts, that's basically just world design. Nothing interesting there. Then there's the build system which pretty cool but it doesn't actually affect the game play (nice for theory crafting though). What other stuff does the game offer that has not been seen before? I'm not trying to troll, but honestly let me know if I missed something.
Fantasy game. Check. Nice UI. Check. That is a WoW clone for sure.
Rifts that randomly spawn and over take and physically change the area before your eyes. They can also overun camps/villages if they are not dealt with. Yes, there is most certainly content like that in WoW.
Multi-soul system. Having the abiltiy to pick and choose a combination of 3 souls from your 8 soul calling. Yes WoW has that too no?
Dungens and instances change and unlock more difficult and explorable areas inside them as you grow in levels. Darn I think WoW even has that too.
To be more serious the WoW clone crap is getting so old. What I stated above are three of the more main features in Rift and WoW has none of them.
Don't get me wrong I was an avid WoW player for years. It's just the fact that the games have some very distinct differences, but in that same breathe share many things common to the MMO genre.
Yes I know what you're talking about but when it comes to actual game play, I mean when you're actually playing the game. Will these things really add so much to the game that it doesn't just feel like the same old with minor tweaks?
MMORPG is a type of game. They play a certain way. They have some simiilar elements to them all. Like I am not sure what you are getting at. There is not going to be some ground breaking change to MMORPGs. That is like saying you are getting bored with shooting in FPS games.
Scott Hartsman from Rift has also stated on several occasions that the game will be a different experience for every player who is in the world. I will find the source sometime, but too tired right now ha.
If you want to make the Anet is breaking new ground with GW2 argument my simple response is that Rift is doing something similiar just not quite to the extent of GW. GW2 also got rid of the trinity many liek that, but a lot of people that liked playing soley healers are not exactly pleased with it.
Hehehe, pay very close attention to information about the Inquisitor (Cleric Calling) and a few other none Cleric Calling Souls. I wouldn't say Trion has exactly "embraced" the Trinity either. *wink*
Oh i know all about the inquisitor. It is in the Cleric calling, but funny thing is it does not have one healing spell (to heal allies). It can however heal itself. It uses ranged death oriented magic and also acts as a debuffer excelling at one on one combat. Not quite sure how that side steps the trinity because the other 7 Cleriic souls are healing oriented with a bit of a twist added to each soul.
Well, yeah, don't only want to focus on the other 7 instead of appreciating this one (Inquisitor). I've also heard from credible sources (credible for me in that I know them, maybe not credible for you) that certain combinations work in such ways that you don't really need a healer the vast majority of the time. Would you want one around? Sure. But it's not hte barrier to content that it is in most trinity games.
Note also I said that Rift/Trion isn't "embracing" the trinity. I never stated they are "revolutionizing" away from it. They offer access to it for those comfortable with it and they allow others a viable avenue around it. When you consider Death Walks I wouldn't be surprised to see people completing lower to mid level raids in this game without a Cleric Soul in the group.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
So wow with new classes (and combined system), dynamic rifts, imo better GFX and a fiew other new features this will be the wow killer for ME.
That is not enough for me. Trion is no noobs so the game might be interesting but if it feels just like Wow it never will be that large. Most Wow players will continue to play Wow until something different shows up, possibly from Blizzard.
And the rest of us MMO players are not so fond about Wow so being similar is not a good thing for them. The IP in itself is new and have no prior fans.
I do note that Scott hartsman is leading Trion now, he used to work on EQ2 so it is possible that EQ2 players know more about Rift than Wow players.
But the fact is that this game is not that know among general players (the kind that don't spend hours on forums like we do) and even if it will be a new Wow with better graphics and better lore I don't think it will get more players than EQ2 or LOTRO.
Bioware have many fans that don't currently play MMOs and I think many of them will try TOR. Arenanet are well known in the MMO genre and are good with demos and getting positive reviews on the gaming sites and in papers like PC gamer.
Trion is rather unknown even if their former boss once made the first few Heroes of might and magic. They need a selling point, something only they can offer to get players. If they don't have one the game will never get that many players.
Wow was made by Blizzard who already had millions of fans in 2004. Trion doesn't so they must really prove to us that this is a great game. If it is just like Wow with a different lore they can't really do that.
I beg to differ. There are millions of people that play World of Warcraft. So suppose this game is fairly like WoW with updated graphics, different lore, and a few other things. Players and fans that love/loved WoW for so many years and want a similar experience at a high quality level will go right to Rift if it is "SO" much like WoW.
Sure these and other forums are filled with people who hate WoW. Guess what there are still millions all over the world that like it. If Rift has a similiar feel for players it will be incredibly easy for them to transition over from WoW to Rift.
So wow with new classes (and combined system), dynamic rifts, imo better GFX and a fiew other new features this will be the wow killer for ME.
That is not enough for me. Trion is no noobs so the game might be interesting but if it feels just like Wow it never will be that large. Most Wow players will continue to play Wow until something different shows up, possibly from Blizzard.
And the rest of us MMO players are not so fond about Wow so being similar is not a good thing for them. The IP in itself is new and have no prior fans.
I do note that Scott hartsman is leading Trion now, he used to work on EQ2 so it is possible that EQ2 players know more about Rift than Wow players.
But the fact is that this game is not that know among general players (the kind that don't spend hours on forums like we do) and even if it will be a new Wow with better graphics and better lore I don't think it will get more players than EQ2 or LOTRO.
Bioware have many fans that don't currently play MMOs and I think many of them will try TOR. Arenanet are well known in the MMO genre and are good with demos and getting positive reviews on the gaming sites and in papers like PC gamer.
Trion is rather unknown even if their former boss once made the first few Heroes of might and magic. They need a selling point, something only they can offer to get players. If they don't have one the game will never get that many players.
Wow was made by Blizzard who already had millions of fans in 2004. Trion doesn't so they must really prove to us that this is a great game. If it is just like Wow with a different lore they can't really do that.
Trion is getting just as many positive reviews and are having a good showing with their demos as Anet is. If it's good for Anet, it's good for Trion.
Either way I don't want the mass influx of temporary gamers that you guys are talking about. I agree that they will just "go back to WoW" and I'd prefer they just stay there originally. The last thing this game needs is that game hopping crowd to hop over and then hop away so that all the naysayers can have a field day screaming about how much of a failure it is.
Right now Trion is doing a good job of cultivating it's official forum membership of older gamers who primarily got started before WoW. That group usually isn't the forum hungry beast as the newer gamers and that group will spread news of this game to their friends by word of mouth.
All Trion has to do is get enough gamers to make a profit. They don't need record breaking or record approaching numbers of subscribers. Would it be nice? Sure, if it were the right group of people (i.e., the non game hoppers - people who want to find a game to stick with for years and not just until the next new thing in a few months comes out). Lots of ex EQ2 and Vanguard gamers are liking what they see and are migrating. Not all, but lots. Considering the way SOE treats Vanguard and the the new f2p EQ2 gimmick, and factoring in the word of mouth bit I wouldn't be surprised if a sizeable portion of those two games comes over.
Lastly, Trion is technically still in alpha. That means advertising sure isn't at the forefront of their thoughts. I'm sure their advertising team, evidence conversations with Cindy about them getting ready to start their campaign, will get their name out their just fine.
Oh, and as far as a selling point I think having a highly polished game along with a class system that is more flexible than the majority if not all class based systems are pretty big ones. Especially when considering the state of recently launched games where even our own MikeB here has commented on their shoddy states in his articles.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Rift I think will remain a niche if they do not create the hype that is appropriate and sustainable at this stage of development. Releasing videos and revealing the rest of the game close to release is not a very good idea if Trion is aiming for the mainstream market. It takes a long time for the giant gaming media to take notice of new IP MMOs and probably just as long if not longer for the non-MMO PC gamer. Example there was a feature article at IGN written on August 27th showcasing the trailers of past, present and future MMOs. All future MMOs were featured together Cata, SWTOR, GW2, FF14 and even TERA but Rift was nowhere to be found. Many of us are only aware of the existence of Rift largely because of an MMO site. That's what the other AAA titles are doing, trying to gather a huge following beyond the MMO community, and maintaining it more or less until release.
Don't you think that if the game is phenomenal, we will hear more about it with the only the current amount of hype? The developers could release nothing else from this point on, and if they launch with a spectacular game, it will get great reviews and everyone will know about it, in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
If you're playing WoW and no one in WoW knows about Rift.....do NOT worry.
When I was playing WoW there were people who had never even heard of EQ, and LOADS that had never heard of UO. A lot of WoW players are first time MMO players. They don't follow the market, they're not looking at other games.
Don't worry your sweet little head about it, Hun. The people that are long time gamers and actually consider GAMING to be their hobby (not WoW as their hobby)....know about Rift. Of course that still doesn't mean they're necessarily going to PLAY it...but they do KNOW about it.
So you think game that costs 50million to make can survive with bunch a old time MMO vets, give me a break. OP is damn right, Rift can be very good game but it doesn't matter if no-one has ever heard of them. Rift has serious obstacles to get thru:
1. Who the hell is Trion? Okey so we know there is couple guys from big franchise, big deal! Unless your name is John Carmack or Romero don't expect majority of players know who you are. How you plan to fight against big muscles that can say "We made Motha-ing Mass Effect/Starcraft!", "Zomg, it's Blizzzard/Biowarez"
2. What a hell is Rift? When I first saw pics of Rift I thinked, Did Tera change name? Rift is generic fantasy MMORPG that is currently overflooded on market. It doesn't matter if it is lot better game when in shelf it has to go against "Zomg it's StarWarz/It has number 2 behind" competition.
They have to start drumming rolling soon to gather hype or aim to please molt covered MMO vets, either way it is really hard path to walk. Almost monthly you find new MMO popping up and old ones die.
People from wow are deticated to the game and have not heard anything or anything at all about other mmos, hell most of the people I know online and rl are consumed by the game itself
I played wow 3 times and had my fun. People who have said that they heard star wars:tor is indeed a promising game, not to mention star wars is big and very well known and for guild wars 2....... well guild wars 2 sucks. Once a company mentions anything about f2p games, it attracts those types in. I played the game from one of there shows during E3 and after playing it, well long story short, had allot of flaws. I had to stop and move on becuase bad stories and bad gameplay makes me itch uncomfortably.
Either way I don't want the mass influx of temporary gamers that you guys are talking about. I agree that they will just "go back to WoW" and I'd prefer they just stay there originally. The last thing this game needs is that game hopping crowd to hop over and then hop away so that all the naysayers can have a field day screaming about how much of a failure it is.
The mass influx of temporary gamers wont be bad for Trion. All those people do buy the game, and that $$ goes back to the company who we atm want to succeed.
And there is the possibility they wont be temporary customers. You may not want it, but its going to happen as it happens in every game.
Its not like we have any other option to see if we like the game other than buying it. There are no demos to play. You have to pay to play. Some will stay, some wont.
And enough with the WoW hate. I would put down hard cash money, that the majority of RIFT customers will have been WoW subscribers. Thats right the majority. Not EQ fanbase, not DAOC fanbase, not Guildwars fanbase, WOWs SUBSCRIBERS fueling this game.
And is that so bad? A good many of them will not only come but will stay. If any of them are as burnt out as I am, they have been playing for quite some time and would probably welcome a change.
Either way I don't want the mass influx of temporary gamers that you guys are talking about. I agree that they will just "go back to WoW" and I'd prefer they just stay there originally. The last thing this game needs is that game hopping crowd to hop over and then hop away so that all the naysayers can have a field day screaming about how much of a failure it is.
The mass influx of temporary gamers wont be bad for Trion. All those people do buy the game, and that $$ goes back to the company who we atm want to succeed.
And there is the possibility they wont be temporary customers. You may not want it, but its going to happen as it happens in every game.
Its not like we have any other option to see if we like the game other than buying it. There are no demos to play. You have to pay to play. Some will stay, some wont.
And enough with the WoW hate. I would put down hard cash money, that the majority of RIFT customers will have been WoW subscribers. Thats right the majority. Not EQ fanbase, not DAOC fanbase, not Guildwars fanbase, WOWs SUBSCRIBERS fueling this game.
And is that so bad? A good many of them will not only come but will stay. If any of them are as burnt out as I am, they have been playing for quite some time and would probably welcome a change.
Of course boxes sold isn't bad for Trion. That's an understood that shouldn't even need to be said. My issue, and it's just my issue (I'm not trying to pass it off as a universal constant as most of you around here do with your opinions) is that from looking at recent releases you see this large influx go to a game, and as you state most come from WoW, stay a month and them filter en masse back to WoW.
The next thing you see are forums blowing up and game site article touting that the game is a failure because of the mass loss of subscriptions. Sure, I don't dispute that a sizeable portion left because of issues with those games. I know, though, that a sizeable portion left simply because they are bungy cording gamers who most likely play WoW. So X game, deserving or not, gets a failure tag which snowballs and keeps potential customers (who don't hop the minute a new game drops) away.
That said, I know nothing I say or do is going to stop them. I can still express my opinion on the matter, though.
As for "WoW hate", just drop it. I would put down hard cash money you don't have a flippin clue as to how I feel about any game, even the one in my sig. Note that the part that launched you into Blizzard defense mode was written in quotes. Please feel free to insert any game in there that doesn't offend you. You tout that the majority of customers will have been former WoW subscribers, well, by the numbers that means the majority of gamer hoppers I was mentioning will have been WoW players as well. So...to set the record straight I couldn't care less about WoW or the people playing it. I don't spend much time worrying about games I have no interest in.
Oh, and as far as the number of folks looking forward to this game and where they came from you might want to keep your money in your wallet for now. Cindy put up a nice little thread in the official forums asking where how old in gamer years people were and at this moment by far there are more people signed up over there that got into MMO gaming way before WoW. SUre, that may change over time, but for now it is what it is.
Lastly, to answer your "isi it so bad?" question. Depends on how many "OMG!!!wutz up wit deez NiGhT elf earz thay r not loooooong enuf oh wutz a KeLaRi?????" and "They didn't do it like this in WoW" comments get spamed into chat on day one. (<--- This is a joke. It may be a bad or lame attempt at a joke but it is a joke nonetheless. This is only a joke...)
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Either way I don't want the mass influx of temporary gamers that you guys are talking about. I agree that they will just "go back to WoW" and I'd prefer they just stay there originally. The last thing this game needs is that game hopping crowd to hop over and then hop away so that all the naysayers can have a field day screaming about how much of a failure it is.
The mass influx of temporary gamers wont be bad for Trion. All those people do buy the game, and that $$ goes back to the company who we atm want to succeed.
And there is the possibility they wont be temporary customers. You may not want it, but its going to happen as it happens in every game.
Its not like we have any other option to see if we like the game other than buying it. There are no demos to play. You have to pay to play. Some will stay, some wont.
And enough with the WoW hate. I would put down hard cash money, that the majority of RIFT customers will have been WoW subscribers. Thats right the majority. Not EQ fanbase, not DAOC fanbase, not Guildwars fanbase, WOWs SUBSCRIBERS fueling this game.
And is that so bad? A good many of them will not only come but will stay. If any of them are as burnt out as I am, they have been playing for quite some time and would probably welcome a change.
Of course boxes sold isn't bad for Trion. That's an understood that shouldn't even need to be said. My issue, and it's just my issue (I'm not trying to pass it off as a universal constant as most of you around here do with your opinions) is that from looking at recent releases you see this large influx go to a game, and as you state most come from WoW, stay a month and them filter en masse back to WoW.
The next thing you see are forums blowing up and game site article touting that the game is a failure because of the mass loss of subscriptions. Sure, I don't dispute that a sizeable portion left because of issues with those games. I know, though, that a sizeable portion left simply because they are bungy cording gamers who most likely play WoW. So X game, deserving or not, gets a failure tag which snowballs and keeps potential customers (who don't hop the minute a new game drops) away.
That said, I know nothing I say or do is going to stop them. I can still express my opinion on the matter, though.
As for "WoW hate", just drop it. I would put down hard cash money you don't have a flippin clue as to how I feel about any game, even the one in my sig. Note that the part that launched you into Blizzard defense mode was written in quotes. Please feel free to insert any game in there that doesn't offend you. You tout that the majority of customers will have been former WoW subscribers, well, by the numbers that means the majority of gamer hoppers I was mentioning will have been WoW players as well. So...to set the record straight I couldn't care less about WoW or the people playing it. I don't spend much time worrying about games I have no interest in.
Oh, and as far as the number of folks looking forward to this game and where they came from you might want to keep your money in your wallet for now. Cindy put up a nice little thread in the official forums asking where how old in gamer years people were and at this moment by far there are more people signed up over there that got into MMO gaming way before WoW. SUre, that may change over time, but for now it is what it is.
Lastly, to answer your "isi it so bad?" question. Depends on how many "OMG!!!wutz up wit deez NiGhT elf earz thay r not loooooong enuf oh wutz a KeLaRi?????" and "They didn't do it like this in WoW" comments get spamed into chat on day one. (<--- This is a joke. It may be a bad or lame attempt at a joke but it is a joke nonetheless. This is only a joke...)
I enjoy conversing with you. You have some very good points. Some of which I had missed. Obviously I dont want people coming in that are just going to leave and I certainly dont want those same people to leave in a month and call it a failure.
I took your comment about WoWers staying in WoW as a dislike for that playerbase. And your right, I dont know how you feel about each and every game. Its not like were pals that chat on vent.
I cant stand the immature kids that spam trade in WoW. If there is an ignore feature in RIFT, you wont even see most of those goofballs....more than once.
When I played WARhammer there was a lot of the WOW crowd there. The good thing was, it was almost like everyone was prepared for them. Because if someone started going on about "It wasnt like this in WoW" etc etc..they would get shouted down fast.
In AION there was a large WoW crowd, and while many people left, I didnt hear much complaining in game. Many of the people that loved the game initially were just sick to death of WoW and they were happy to be there.
I said all that say, its my hope that of the people that come to RIFT from WoW, they are happy to be there, the ones that smart off get shouted down and the ones that spam annoying crap get ignored.
The difference between the three games has been mentioned. Guild Wars 2 has been in development since Eye of the North, and Guild Wars is doing pretty good today.
Starwars is star wars.
Rfit is seeking or chasing the EQ and VG group making it more of a niche game than a larger focus of the wow group. ( i play wow but i am an EQ1 vet). So as a niche game, i think they would be happy with 500k to 1 mil. subscribers to start and expand from that lot.
500k to 1 mil is not niche ^^ that would put it amongst the top western MMOs of all times... (which is btw why EA needing 2 mil subs to break even with SWTOR is so ridiculous) I agree with what you say but replace the number with ~100k... perfectly profitable and way more realistic...
Everything seems rehashed, I agree. Even the ui seems like a direct ripoff of eq2. Everything about it has been done 100 times. With that being said...nothing fresh has emerged from these type of 'proven' games in quite some time; as in the last major release catering to them was vanguard. I think people who like this proven style but want a 'fresh' world will jump on board. How many don't want to try something new by now only time will tell. I was a big EQ1 player around release for a few years, but I think I may have a hard time going back to the tediousness of this click-target style.
You never know what you will get with MMO's. With some big-budget games releasing in late '10/early '11, it will be interesting to see how this game does, especially if marketing remains quiet. I think the mmo market now niche divisions bigger than it's playerbase, which will cause some bigger budget games to collapse early if expectations aren't met.
You don't think there are enough "fresh" worlds already out there?
This is my 1st view of RIFT - nothing new. No pirates, no cowboys, no dinosaurs, no colonizing planets, no space ships, no time warps, no aliens...just more flipping elves. I could link 100 games with this exact kinda "setting". Graphics may be great, but another dwarf and magician game?! Come on. They should have spent some of that 50 million in researching what the market LACKED and needed...not what the majority of the market played due to lack of diversity.
see if the "market" really wanted scifi, pirates, cowboys or whatever, how come games in those "genres" always scrape around at the bottom of the barrel? There is a reason why all the "top" MMOs (number of subs) are fantasy games... and it's probably not because there's no choice... there is.
Don't get me wrong, I like SciFi stuff and I'm going to check out Earthrise f.e. but the truth is that all serious ventures into the SciFi MMO market apart from EVE weren't really a success...
Also I have to inform you, that in this thread you've basically taken on the role of the guy, who, during WARs development, turned up in threads and said "this looks totally like WoW!!!!1 nbobody is gonna play this crap!!", and they still sold almost 900k copies...
If Rift can catch the interest of a similar sized crowd and present a way more polished game, thus sustaining that crowd, it would be right up there with WoW, Aion and the 2 Lineages.... Even if it doesn't it can still be a success...
here are 4 MMOs that are considered a success apart from WoW and their sub numbers:
EvE: ~350k
LotRO: ~200k
AoC: ~100k
EQ2: ~100k
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H> An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots! www.stealth-industries.de
So the last 3 or so days, I have been digging in, finding out everything I can about RIFT.
I have not been disappointed and like most of you reading this, I am very impressed and excited to see such an amazing game coming to market by early next year.
ButI do have one major concern.
It has nothing to do with gameplay, classes, pve, UI, pvp, instances, payment method, graphics or dynamic events. From what I have seen of the BIG 3, SWTOR, GuildWars2 and RIFT, they are all solid MMO's.
When I talk to people I game with, people in my guild, random people on the server,I rarely run into someone who has even heard or RIFT. While that might not bother me because people in general can be a bit clueless about MMOs even if they are playing one,guess what games they have heard about, you guessed it, Guildwars 2 and even more so SWTOR.
But again, those are just random people. What about the forum goers here on mmorpg.com? What has caught there eye?
To give you an idea here is the HYPE levels for each of those three games on the MMORPG forums.
Rift has a 8.16
SWTOR has a 8.05
GuildWars 2 has a 8.7
So from that you could deduce that GW2 is first on the Hype Meter,
Rift comes in at an acceptable 2nd
and SwTOR comes in at 3rd.
However, when you take a look at the number of people that voted for each game, that tells more of the story.
Rift 8.16 was generated by 530 votes
Guildwars2 8.7 was generated by 1363 votes (almost 3 times the votes of RIFT)
SWTOR 8.05 was generated by 3106 Votes. (almost 6 times the number of votes that Rift has)
I would like to think that I am not biased and if I was, I am leaning towards RIFT. But as of right now, I dont think they are doing enough to get there name out there. Whatever they are doing, they need to do more.
Everyone and there mom seems to know about GuildWars2 and tons of people are looking forward to SWTOR but none of those people are looking forward to RIFT.
When Everquest was released and even now you can find it anywhere. When WoW was released, you could find it everywhere and the hype was intense. Everyone I knew in DAOC knew about WoW.
But now here I am in WoW and no one knows about RIFT. Thats a problem.
And before you say "I dont want WoWers in my game", thats not the point. WoW is so big in and of itself it represents a demographic of MMO players so while you may not WoW fanbase in your game, do you want anyone in your game? Because if those people dont know about your game, the normal person wont either.
The main thing to me will be "Does Rift get a smooth launch"?
If Hartsman and company can get past that phase, I think the word of mouth will bring new folks in. This should be a quality game ala EQ2 was after he took over.
I suspect there will be ample folks to game with.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I'm sure its been said, but as i dont want to read 10 pages of posts to confirm, here it is:
Good MMO's gain a playerbase by word of mouth. Rift may not launch with a bajillion players, but i can say with confidence that it will launch well, maintain 80% or better of its initial box sales as subs, and will continue to grow from there as people start realizing there is this well polished game that isnt buggy as fuck, look friggin awesome, has a unique and cool class system, has dynamic content, and is overall just fuck awesome.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
People from wow are deticated to the game and have not heard anything or anything at all about other mmos, hell most of the people I know online and rl are consumed by the game itself
I played wow 3 times and had my fun. People who have said that they heard star wars:tor is indeed a promising game, not to mention star wars is big and very well known and for guild wars 2....... well guild wars 2 sucks. Once a company mentions anything about f2p games, it attracts those types in. I played the game from one of there shows during E3 and after playing it, well long story short, had allot of flaws. I had to stop and move on becuase bad stories and bad gameplay makes me itch uncomfortably.
Rift is a winner, gw2 muahahahaha ... to easy.
That right there. That said it all. GW2 wasn't at all at the E3, so this means you're a fraud, a liar and looking at your last comment, a Rift fanboi.
Sorry, your post was utter fail, try the truth and a soundly based opinion next time, mate
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Rift is looking good but it certainly is facing some stiff competition. It doesn't mean that Rift won't be a good game, I've found that in the post-WoW era MMO gamers suddenly have become focused to the point of obsession with high sub numbers. Before WoW a lot of MMO's were ranking around 50k - 200k and they were doing pretty good, absolutely not considered fails or such.
Good gameplay is what's important and a healthy population on your server, sub numbers are of secondary importance to a player and only for the figures horny.
It;s ironic to see that after years of a rather bland and desertlike number of years suddenly there are a number of high potentials or otherwise intriguing MMO's with their own distinct features appearing in a period of barely a year.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm sure its been said, but as i dont want to read 10 pages of posts to confirm, here it is:
Good MMO's gain a playerbase by word of mouth. Rift may not launch with a bajillion players, but i can say with confidence that it will launch well, maintain 80% or better of its initial box sales as subs, and will continue to grow from there as people start realizing there is this well polished game that isnt buggy as fuck, look friggin awesome, has a unique and cool class system, has dynamic content, and is overall just fuck awesome.
Since I started this thread, Ive paid close attention to any post so I can fill you in on the last couple pages.
A sum up of some of the posts
-Trions strategy is to take a different route compared to GuildWars2 and KOTOR.
-They are building more of a underground following.
-RIFT has had incredibly smooth gameplay demos at conventions.
-They arent doing enough advertising and need to pick it up!
-Trion will ramp up there advertising efforts closer to release.
Here is my prediction. The WoWers will get Cataclysm before the other games release and will burn out in a 3 month period. GW2 will release like GuildWars, decent big and then a big exodous. SWKOTOR wont live up to the hype but will keep a number of players. And this is happening all the while RIFT has a very respectable release and modest growth while word of mouth spreads. The people who didnt like GW2 and KOTOR and are burnt out on WoW ---> RIFT. Biased, yes I know, as it should be.
I'm sure its been said, but as i dont want to read 10 pages of posts to confirm, here it is:
Good MMO's gain a playerbase by word of mouth. Rift may not launch with a bajillion players, but i can say with confidence that it will launch well, maintain 80% or better of its initial box sales as subs, and will continue to grow from there as people start realizing there is this well polished game that isnt buggy as fuck, look friggin awesome, has a unique and cool class system, has dynamic content, and is overall just fuck awesome.
Since I started this thread, Ive paid close attention to any post so I can fill you in on the last couple pages.
A sum up of some of the posts
-Trions strategy is to take a different route compared to GuildWars2 and KOTOR.
-They are building more of a underground following.
-RIFT has had incredibly smooth gameplay demos at conventions.
-They arent doing enough advertising and need to pick it up!
-Trion will ramp up there advertising efforts closer to release.
Here is my prediction. The WoWers will get Cataclysm before the other games release and will burn out in a 3 month period. GW2 will release like GuildWars, decent big and then a big exodous. SWKOTOR wont live up to the hype but will keep a number of players. And this is happening all the while RIFT has a very respectable release and modest growth while word of mouth spreads. The people who didnt like GW2 and KOTOR and are burnt out on WoW ---> RIFT. Biased, yes I know, as it should be.
Nope. Not going to happen. When they try out rift, many people are going to go back to whatever game they were playing before that. It is easier to stay in GW2 than in Rift. No sub means no commitment to keep up.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
my concern is about the invisible classes, if there exist dont gonna play this game
You get ganked too many times in another mmo?
Because it DOES have invisible classes, I will play, nothing like stealthers to add some extra excitement!!
I just think stealth is for cowards, and gankers of course, i can understand "some" people like it and here come the QQ etc... if someone say something again they superpower (killing whitout risk)
So my first guess was right, you got ganked too many times.
What mmos did you play where they had stealther classes?
Have you ever played one? Personally I find that style of pvp a blast and I am in no way a coward.
I could call you a coward for rolling a tank class. Why are you going with the class that has the most HP out of any class? Why do you have a shield?
Why do you choose healing classes? Maybe your a coward. I cant heal but you can? Thats not fair.
Obviously, I am being sarcastic. The point I am trying to make, all classes have there strengths and weaknesses and they usually balance eachother out. Let me give you a small example. There doesnt exist in an mmo a class that has all strenghts and no weaknesses. There is no caster/melle/tank/healer/stealther.
Healers usually tend to be soft or susceptible to silences etc.
Tanks usually tend to be kiteable to some extent.
Casters are also soft and a bit mobile because they cant tank the dmg, and they cant heal themselves of dmg.
See how that balances out?
Now in comes the stealther/Rogue/thief. He has to hit from melee. Would it be fair in a pvp fight if he didnt have stealth? He cant heal the dmg while coming at you, he cant take the dmg like a tank does and he doesnt have the range of a caster. What does he have? Stealth.
Would you expect a mage to do all his dmg within melee range? That would be ridiculous! He would get eaten alive. If stealthers didnt have stealth they would be like a mage without range or a tank without heavy armor.
I know this was posted a few pages back but i got to this thread a little late. I read all your posts Ender and i agreed with many of the points you made but this one just seemed to be really flawed imo.
You talk about the disadvantage that healer , tank and caster have and how it all balances out, which yes it does. Then you say stealthers would have a disadvantage but this is taken away once they are given stealth. So to me you just reinforced the other persons point. The other 3 classes all have a disadvantage while you no longer do. The arguement could be made that your disadvantage should be that you are susceptable to range damage. Because once you get close you can just shred someone.
My experience with stealth comes from 2 games DaoC and WAR. DaoC is where i think you're going to get people who hate the skill. It just wasn't done very well in that game, especially near the beginning years. Stealth classes could kill you very quickly and then get away , with you never having any chance to defend yourself. This will put a lot of players off and even make some quit. Having the classes that are almost no risk vs really high reward causes some problems. Players really had a choice between waiting for hours to get a group so they could be safe from these classes or playing one of these classes so they atleast had a chance to compete. Also with these classes being considered overpowered, people just flock to them on there own. This created servers where 60-70% of the population are all playing stealth classes.
As for WAR i think they kinda learned from how bad DaoC was. I really never had a problem with the stealth classes. They were popular but not over played. They did have an advantage when sneaking up on you but you still seemed to atleast have a chance of winning or getting away.
I am not opposed to having stealth in the game but it needs to be done right and it can be a very fine line to walk. I think you mentioned in an earlier post that it adds a hint of danger which is good and i would agree. Just make sure you balance the classes enough where people dont feel forced to play a stealth class and you dont end up with over half the servers playing one. That hint of danger will quickly turn into a feeling of hopelessness.
Everything seems rehashed, I agree. Even the ui seems like a direct ripoff of eq2. Everything about it has been done 100 times. With that being said...nothing fresh has emerged from these type of 'proven' games in quite some time; as in the last major release catering to them was vanguard. I think people who like this proven style but want a 'fresh' world will jump on board. How many don't want to try something new by now only time will tell. I was a big EQ1 player around release for a few years, but I think I may have a hard time going back to the tediousness of this click-target style.
You never know what you will get with MMO's. With some big-budget games releasing in late '10/early '11, it will be interesting to see how this game does, especially if marketing remains quiet. I think the mmo market now niche divisions bigger than it's playerbase, which will cause some bigger budget games to collapse early if expectations aren't met.
You don't think there are enough "fresh" worlds already out there?
This is my 1st view of RIFT - nothing new. No pirates, no cowboys, no dinosaurs, no colonizing planets, no space ships, no time warps, no aliens...just more flipping elves. I could link 100 games with this exact kinda "setting". Graphics may be great, but another dwarf and magician game?! Come on. They should have spent some of that 50 million in researching what the market LACKED and needed...not what the majority of the market played due to lack of diversity.
see if the "market" really wanted scifi, pirates, cowboys or whatever, how come games in those "genres" always scrape around at the bottom of the barrel? There is a reason why all the "top" MMOs (number of subs) are fantasy games... and it's probably not because there's no choice... there is.
Don't get me wrong, I like SciFi stuff and I'm going to check out Earthrise f.e. but the truth is that all serious ventures into the SciFi MMO market apart from EVE weren't really a success...
Also I have to inform you, that in this thread you've basically taken on the role of the guy, who, during WARs development, turned up in threads and said "this looks totally like WoW!!!!1 nbobody is gonna play this crap!!", and they still sold almost 900k copies...
If Rift can catch the interest of a similar sized crowd and present a way more polished game, thus sustaining that crowd, it would be right up there with WoW, Aion and the 2 Lineages.... Even if it doesn't it can still be a success...
here are 4 MMOs that are considered a success apart from WoW and their sub numbers:
your numbers are a bit off but point taken. I think 100k subs at least will be very easy to get world wide for Rift assuming it is as polished as Hartsman claims it will be. I think it will be able to pull 300k with a solid, stable game. Cant wait for it personally. Looks great!
Your linked article-I am not trying to knit pick but....that guy is listing the top mmos of 2010 and in it he mentions 2 games that ARENT EVEN RELEASED YET. I dont know what else to say but, WTF?
The article is top 10 MOST SUCCESFUL MMOs. Successful, that means subs right? Cause Lego has no subs, FF14 has no subs, Warhammer has more subs than AOC, and is rated lower, EQ2 has more subs than AOC and is rated lower.
Well the op's concern is valid because weather people will admit or not ,i firmly bel;eive MANY if not MOST are followers.This is one very big reason why Wow has so many players,it shows big subscriptions so people keep flocking to that game.Most players of MMO's do not like empty servers,so if there is a chance the game might be of low pop,it will not help iteself with all the followers.
Obviously GW2 will have a following becuase it is F2p,SWTOR is a franchise name that sells itself.Where i do not agree is claiming these are the big 3 and that they are going to be solid or even great games,they are not released yet,so nobody really knows.Personally i have seen flawed areas in all 3 of these games,so they are by no means SOLID games,they wil ljus tas most games do ,attract certain people.
So it all goes back to what the OP is saying,if either GW2 or SWTOR starts claiming big numbers ,be it lies or not...ahem Blizz are you listening,all the outsider,follower types will goto the busier game,you can bet on it.Don't forget all these big developers aside from probably Square Enix are paying trhe NPD group to not only hype but sort of allow a false numbers game.Npd can post false numbers and all the devloper has to do is say "we have not released any numbers"but they MAY be true,which has happened on several occasions.I highly doubt that Rift is involved with the mafia type setup that NPD operates,so the op's concern will be a valid one,RIFT willl reamin sort of an unknown commodity.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Dont take this the wrong way but I see your type way too often. I know you say you arent trying to troll but you have 5 posts and first words I read are, WoW clone.
How does the character build not affect gameplay? So you arent going to use your Avatar to play? Because if you are going to use your avatar to play the game, then the character build will come into it.
There hasnt been a good WoW clone to date. I know people TALK about it, but it hasnt exsited. Show me one, and unless its one of those shitty F2p games, I disagree.
WARhammer - Not a wow clone.
AION - Not a WoW clone.
Another poster said it best "We deserve a QUALITY FANTASY MMO."
That is not enough for me. Trion is no noobs so the game might be interesting but if it feels just like Wow it never will be that large. Most Wow players will continue to play Wow until something different shows up, possibly from Blizzard.
And the rest of us MMO players are not so fond about Wow so being similar is not a good thing for them. The IP in itself is new and have no prior fans.
I do note that Scott hartsman is leading Trion now, he used to work on EQ2 so it is possible that EQ2 players know more about Rift than Wow players.
But the fact is that this game is not that know among general players (the kind that don't spend hours on forums like we do) and even if it will be a new Wow with better graphics and better lore I don't think it will get more players than EQ2 or LOTRO.
Bioware have many fans that don't currently play MMOs and I think many of them will try TOR. Arenanet are well known in the MMO genre and are good with demos and getting positive reviews on the gaming sites and in papers like PC gamer.
Trion is rather unknown even if their former boss once made the first few Heroes of might and magic. They need a selling point, something only they can offer to get players. If they don't have one the game will never get that many players.
Wow was made by Blizzard who already had millions of fans in 2004. Trion doesn't so they must really prove to us that this is a great game. If it is just like Wow with a different lore they can't really do that.
Well, yeah, don't only want to focus on the other 7 instead of appreciating this one (Inquisitor). I've also heard from credible sources (credible for me in that I know them, maybe not credible for you) that certain combinations work in such ways that you don't really need a healer the vast majority of the time. Would you want one around? Sure. But it's not hte barrier to content that it is in most trinity games.
Note also I said that Rift/Trion isn't "embracing" the trinity. I never stated they are "revolutionizing" away from it. They offer access to it for those comfortable with it and they allow others a viable avenue around it. When you consider Death Walks I wouldn't be surprised to see people completing lower to mid level raids in this game without a Cleric Soul in the group.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I beg to differ. There are millions of people that play World of Warcraft. So suppose this game is fairly like WoW with updated graphics, different lore, and a few other things. Players and fans that love/loved WoW for so many years and want a similar experience at a high quality level will go right to Rift if it is "SO" much like WoW.
Sure these and other forums are filled with people who hate WoW. Guess what there are still millions all over the world that like it. If Rift has a similiar feel for players it will be incredibly easy for them to transition over from WoW to Rift.
Trion is getting just as many positive reviews and are having a good showing with their demos as Anet is. If it's good for Anet, it's good for Trion.
Either way I don't want the mass influx of temporary gamers that you guys are talking about. I agree that they will just "go back to WoW" and I'd prefer they just stay there originally. The last thing this game needs is that game hopping crowd to hop over and then hop away so that all the naysayers can have a field day screaming about how much of a failure it is.
Right now Trion is doing a good job of cultivating it's official forum membership of older gamers who primarily got started before WoW. That group usually isn't the forum hungry beast as the newer gamers and that group will spread news of this game to their friends by word of mouth.
All Trion has to do is get enough gamers to make a profit. They don't need record breaking or record approaching numbers of subscribers. Would it be nice? Sure, if it were the right group of people (i.e., the non game hoppers - people who want to find a game to stick with for years and not just until the next new thing in a few months comes out). Lots of ex EQ2 and Vanguard gamers are liking what they see and are migrating. Not all, but lots. Considering the way SOE treats Vanguard and the the new f2p EQ2 gimmick, and factoring in the word of mouth bit I wouldn't be surprised if a sizeable portion of those two games comes over.
Lastly, Trion is technically still in alpha. That means advertising sure isn't at the forefront of their thoughts. I'm sure their advertising team, evidence conversations with Cindy about them getting ready to start their campaign, will get their name out their just fine.
Oh, and as far as a selling point I think having a highly polished game along with a class system that is more flexible than the majority if not all class based systems are pretty big ones. Especially when considering the state of recently launched games where even our own MikeB here has commented on their shoddy states in his articles.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
OP,
Your concern is the hype meter on a website for a game? Talking to people who play WoW?
As to the number of votes; SWTOR has been listed here for probably three times as long as RIFT. RIFT hasn't been on the radar very long.
Don't you think that if the game is phenomenal, we will hear more about it with the only the current amount of hype? The developers could release nothing else from this point on, and if they launch with a spectacular game, it will get great reviews and everyone will know about it, in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I have made many more comments after that post, as have other posters, I encourage you to read the whole thread.
Try this on for size......
http://www.trionworlds.com/en/about/index.php
Enjoy
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
Rift is going to be an awesome and epic game!
People from wow are deticated to the game and have not heard anything or anything at all about other mmos, hell most of the people I know online and rl are consumed by the game itself
I played wow 3 times and had my fun. People who have said that they heard star wars:tor is indeed a promising game, not to mention star wars is big and very well known and for guild wars 2....... well guild wars 2 sucks. Once a company mentions anything about f2p games, it attracts those types in. I played the game from one of there shows during E3 and after playing it, well long story short, had allot of flaws. I had to stop and move on becuase bad stories and bad gameplay makes me itch uncomfortably.
Rift is a winner, gw2 muahahahaha ... to easy.
The mass influx of temporary gamers wont be bad for Trion. All those people do buy the game, and that $$ goes back to the company who we atm want to succeed.
And there is the possibility they wont be temporary customers. You may not want it, but its going to happen as it happens in every game.
Its not like we have any other option to see if we like the game other than buying it. There are no demos to play. You have to pay to play. Some will stay, some wont.
And enough with the WoW hate. I would put down hard cash money, that the majority of RIFT customers will have been WoW subscribers. Thats right the majority. Not EQ fanbase, not DAOC fanbase, not Guildwars fanbase, WOWs SUBSCRIBERS fueling this game.
And is that so bad? A good many of them will not only come but will stay. If any of them are as burnt out as I am, they have been playing for quite some time and would probably welcome a change.
Of course boxes sold isn't bad for Trion. That's an understood that shouldn't even need to be said. My issue, and it's just my issue (I'm not trying to pass it off as a universal constant as most of you around here do with your opinions) is that from looking at recent releases you see this large influx go to a game, and as you state most come from WoW, stay a month and them filter en masse back to WoW.
The next thing you see are forums blowing up and game site article touting that the game is a failure because of the mass loss of subscriptions. Sure, I don't dispute that a sizeable portion left because of issues with those games. I know, though, that a sizeable portion left simply because they are bungy cording gamers who most likely play WoW. So X game, deserving or not, gets a failure tag which snowballs and keeps potential customers (who don't hop the minute a new game drops) away.
That said, I know nothing I say or do is going to stop them. I can still express my opinion on the matter, though.
As for "WoW hate", just drop it. I would put down hard cash money you don't have a flippin clue as to how I feel about any game, even the one in my sig. Note that the part that launched you into Blizzard defense mode was written in quotes. Please feel free to insert any game in there that doesn't offend you. You tout that the majority of customers will have been former WoW subscribers, well, by the numbers that means the majority of gamer hoppers I was mentioning will have been WoW players as well. So...to set the record straight I couldn't care less about WoW or the people playing it. I don't spend much time worrying about games I have no interest in.
Oh, and as far as the number of folks looking forward to this game and where they came from you might want to keep your money in your wallet for now. Cindy put up a nice little thread in the official forums asking where how old in gamer years people were and at this moment by far there are more people signed up over there that got into MMO gaming way before WoW. SUre, that may change over time, but for now it is what it is.
Lastly, to answer your "isi it so bad?" question. Depends on how many "OMG!!!wutz up wit deez NiGhT elf earz thay r not loooooong enuf oh wutz a KeLaRi?????" and "They didn't do it like this in WoW" comments get spamed into chat on day one. (<--- This is a joke. It may be a bad or lame attempt at a joke but it is a joke nonetheless. This is only a joke...)
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I enjoy conversing with you. You have some very good points. Some of which I had missed. Obviously I dont want people coming in that are just going to leave and I certainly dont want those same people to leave in a month and call it a failure.
I took your comment about WoWers staying in WoW as a dislike for that playerbase. And your right, I dont know how you feel about each and every game. Its not like were pals that chat on vent.
I cant stand the immature kids that spam trade in WoW. If there is an ignore feature in RIFT, you wont even see most of those goofballs....more than once.
When I played WARhammer there was a lot of the WOW crowd there. The good thing was, it was almost like everyone was prepared for them. Because if someone started going on about "It wasnt like this in WoW" etc etc..they would get shouted down fast.
In AION there was a large WoW crowd, and while many people left, I didnt hear much complaining in game. Many of the people that loved the game initially were just sick to death of WoW and they were happy to be there.
I said all that say, its my hope that of the people that come to RIFT from WoW, they are happy to be there, the ones that smart off get shouted down and the ones that spam annoying crap get ignored.
500k to 1 mil is not niche ^^ that would put it amongst the top western MMOs of all times... (which is btw why EA needing 2 mil subs to break even with SWTOR is so ridiculous) I agree with what you say but replace the number with ~100k... perfectly profitable and way more realistic...
http://mmodata.net/
in case you ever need a refference number
(also a good refference to see how many subs a game ACTUALLY needs to be profitable...)
I would say let's wait and see... I'm rolling the advertisement drum for Rift whenever I can, though
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H>
An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots!
www.stealth-industries.de
see if the "market" really wanted scifi, pirates, cowboys or whatever, how come games in those "genres" always scrape around at the bottom of the barrel? There is a reason why all the "top" MMOs (number of subs) are fantasy games... and it's probably not because there's no choice... there is.
Don't get me wrong, I like SciFi stuff and I'm going to check out Earthrise f.e. but the truth is that all serious ventures into the SciFi MMO market apart from EVE weren't really a success...
Also I have to inform you, that in this thread you've basically taken on the role of the guy, who, during WARs development, turned up in threads and said "this looks totally like WoW!!!!1 nbobody is gonna play this crap!!", and they still sold almost 900k copies...
If Rift can catch the interest of a similar sized crowd and present a way more polished game, thus sustaining that crowd, it would be right up there with WoW, Aion and the 2 Lineages.... Even if it doesn't it can still be a success...
here are 4 MMOs that are considered a success apart from WoW and their sub numbers:
EvE: ~350k
LotRO: ~200k
AoC: ~100k
EQ2: ~100k
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H>
An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots!
www.stealth-industries.de
The main thing to me will be "Does Rift get a smooth launch"?
If Hartsman and company can get past that phase, I think the word of mouth will bring new folks in. This should be a quality game ala EQ2 was after he took over.
I suspect there will be ample folks to game with.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I'm sure its been said, but as i dont want to read 10 pages of posts to confirm, here it is:
Good MMO's gain a playerbase by word of mouth. Rift may not launch with a bajillion players, but i can say with confidence that it will launch well, maintain 80% or better of its initial box sales as subs, and will continue to grow from there as people start realizing there is this well polished game that isnt buggy as fuck, look friggin awesome, has a unique and cool class system, has dynamic content, and is overall just fuck awesome.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
That right there. That said it all. GW2 wasn't at all at the E3, so this means you're a fraud, a liar and looking at your last comment, a Rift fanboi.
Sorry, your post was utter fail, try the truth and a soundly based opinion next time, mate
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Rift is looking good but it certainly is facing some stiff competition. It doesn't mean that Rift won't be a good game, I've found that in the post-WoW era MMO gamers suddenly have become focused to the point of obsession with high sub numbers. Before WoW a lot of MMO's were ranking around 50k - 200k and they were doing pretty good, absolutely not considered fails or such.
Good gameplay is what's important and a healthy population on your server, sub numbers are of secondary importance to a player and only for the figures horny.
It;s ironic to see that after years of a rather bland and desertlike number of years suddenly there are a number of high potentials or otherwise intriguing MMO's with their own distinct features appearing in a period of barely a year.
Looks to be a promising year ahead.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Since I started this thread, Ive paid close attention to any post so I can fill you in on the last couple pages.
A sum up of some of the posts
-Trions strategy is to take a different route compared to GuildWars2 and KOTOR.
-They are building more of a underground following.
-RIFT has had incredibly smooth gameplay demos at conventions.
-They arent doing enough advertising and need to pick it up!
-Trion will ramp up there advertising efforts closer to release.
Here is my prediction. The WoWers will get Cataclysm before the other games release and will burn out in a 3 month period. GW2 will release like GuildWars, decent big and then a big exodous. SWKOTOR wont live up to the hype but will keep a number of players. And this is happening all the while RIFT has a very respectable release and modest growth while word of mouth spreads. The people who didnt like GW2 and KOTOR and are burnt out on WoW ---> RIFT. Biased, yes I know, as it should be.
Nope. Not going to happen. When they try out rift, many people are going to go back to whatever game they were playing before that. It is easier to stay in GW2 than in Rift. No sub means no commitment to keep up.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
I know this was posted a few pages back but i got to this thread a little late. I read all your posts Ender and i agreed with many of the points you made but this one just seemed to be really flawed imo.
You talk about the disadvantage that healer , tank and caster have and how it all balances out, which yes it does. Then you say stealthers would have a disadvantage but this is taken away once they are given stealth. So to me you just reinforced the other persons point. The other 3 classes all have a disadvantage while you no longer do. The arguement could be made that your disadvantage should be that you are susceptable to range damage. Because once you get close you can just shred someone.
My experience with stealth comes from 2 games DaoC and WAR. DaoC is where i think you're going to get people who hate the skill. It just wasn't done very well in that game, especially near the beginning years. Stealth classes could kill you very quickly and then get away , with you never having any chance to defend yourself. This will put a lot of players off and even make some quit. Having the classes that are almost no risk vs really high reward causes some problems. Players really had a choice between waiting for hours to get a group so they could be safe from these classes or playing one of these classes so they atleast had a chance to compete. Also with these classes being considered overpowered, people just flock to them on there own. This created servers where 60-70% of the population are all playing stealth classes.
As for WAR i think they kinda learned from how bad DaoC was. I really never had a problem with the stealth classes. They were popular but not over played. They did have an advantage when sneaking up on you but you still seemed to atleast have a chance of winning or getting away.
I am not opposed to having stealth in the game but it needs to be done right and it can be a very fine line to walk. I think you mentioned in an earlier post that it adds a hint of danger which is good and i would agree. Just make sure you balance the classes enough where people dont feel forced to play a stealth class and you dont end up with over half the servers playing one. That hint of danger will quickly turn into a feeling of hopelessness.
Your linked article-I am not trying to knit pick but....that guy is listing the top mmos of 2010 and in it he mentions 2 games that ARENT EVEN RELEASED YET. I dont know what else to say but, WTF?
The article is top 10 MOST SUCCESFUL MMOs. Successful, that means subs right? Cause Lego has no subs, FF14 has no subs, Warhammer has more subs than AOC, and is rated lower, EQ2 has more subs than AOC and is rated lower.
Well the op's concern is valid because weather people will admit or not ,i firmly bel;eive MANY if not MOST are followers.This is one very big reason why Wow has so many players,it shows big subscriptions so people keep flocking to that game.Most players of MMO's do not like empty servers,so if there is a chance the game might be of low pop,it will not help iteself with all the followers.
Obviously GW2 will have a following becuase it is F2p,SWTOR is a franchise name that sells itself.Where i do not agree is claiming these are the big 3 and that they are going to be solid or even great games,they are not released yet,so nobody really knows.Personally i have seen flawed areas in all 3 of these games,so they are by no means SOLID games,they wil ljus tas most games do ,attract certain people.
So it all goes back to what the OP is saying,if either GW2 or SWTOR starts claiming big numbers ,be it lies or not...ahem Blizz are you listening,all the outsider,follower types will goto the busier game,you can bet on it.Don't forget all these big developers aside from probably Square Enix are paying trhe NPD group to not only hype but sort of allow a false numbers game.Npd can post false numbers and all the devloper has to do is say "we have not released any numbers"but they MAY be true,which has happened on several occasions.I highly doubt that Rift is involved with the mafia type setup that NPD operates,so the op's concern will be a valid one,RIFT willl reamin sort of an unknown commodity.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.