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Evidence of extreme copy-paste development in FFXIV
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Awww cute little insults.
I mean if peopßle start to calm down you start new provocations. Hmmm oh and reportet my nice friend.
I am still at a loss to where all these non-calm people are that you are mentioning. Everyone here has been decently calm but for the few people posting random nonsense with nothing at all to do with the Topic. I have told these people to take it elsewhere, you included. Keep it related to FF14.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
This isn't really my kind of debate, but ok, here it goes:
one could say that the use of the term 'extreme' indicates a baseline of what could be considered 'normal' of which FFXIV strays from.
Other posters are stating, 'why do you say extreme? Procedural content generation is being done in all kinds of MMO's'
'OP is stating, ok, prove it then'
After which the people disagreeing respond, 'Eh? but you were the one talking about 'extreme copy-pasting'
Hence the disagreement: people who disagree say that extreme copy pasting is a subjective term and gross exaggeration, OP and ppl who agree are saying prove that it's an exaggeration by showing evidence from other MMO's, hence the continuing ping pong or circle debate. One could link to sources talking about procedural generation in the several MMO's, but personally I think this is just one of those threads that keep going on no matter what further material is dragged into, until most parties concerned have grown tired of it, or until a new fun topic rises to rant, troll, flame or fight about.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Are you going to play FF14?
What mmorpg are you currently playing?
How long do you, typically stay subscribed to an mmo?
What mmorpg have you previously played?
Just curious to know. I have only played FF11, but am planning to play FF14, GW2, and Swtor.
Lol, I have a feeling Square enix doesn't think so much of non Japanese players anyways. If they make some extra bucks from us, then fine but Gaijins like us isn't their main focus group.
And I have no doubt this will be huge in Japan. For the rest of us, we will have to see, if we like it fine, if not we just have to get something else. I myself is not in the OB, I will wait a few months until the bugs are ironed out.
To be fair, I did notice that many landmarks were copied and pasted while I was in the CB. Despite this, it was the first time in a while that I felt immersed in a world in an MMO - from the scenery and feeling alone.
Although it was dissapointing how unvaried much of the landscape was during my play ( I played when Limsa Lominsa was only accessible ), but to me personally, some landscapes should have this type of feeling to be immersive. Just my opinion.
In Final Fantasy XIV's defense, while looking at some of the screenshots MMORPG.com users have taken, I noticed a lot of variety and distinct feeling in different areas. These are just screenshots, so it's hard to get a true feel, but judging from the screenshots alone, they seem plenty different. Examples:
http://images.mmorpg.com//images/galleries/full/372010/8b13dc35-7b21-4510-b239-a42f76b109d5.jpg
http://images.mmorpg.com//images/galleries/full/372010/ade73387-a791-4cbf-99db-061dc3c29aec.jpg
http://images.mmorpg.com//images/galleries/full/372010/e0f3f50f-2ec0-4f00-afbc-76ab7cb82e39.jpg
http://images.mmorpg.com//images/galleries/full/372010/db481703-b847-497a-9258-55f034d89c41.jpg
http://images.mmorpg.com//images/galleries/full/362010/b364a133-94ba-4a94-8e0f-ba0425ff97ff.jpg
http://images.mmorpg.com//images/galleries/full/372010/16c51ea8-352e-49e3-8561-ecf1e8c97ac7.jpg
( I apologize if any of you who took these screenshots did not want it in this thread. You can PM me and I can take it down, if you wish )
So, while I agree that there is copy and pasting ( I don't think anyone has disagreed with this, although I haven't read the entire thread ), at least Square Enix has seemed to produce distinctive feeling in different areas of Eorzea. Perhaps variety in single areas is lacking - I could see a case being made for that
That's great that you felt compelled to spend time doing that, but it didn't have anything to do with the topic so that's bad. The other thing is we are typing here on a forum not writing a novel and everyone can read what I say fine without google translator so that's good enough for the common folks xD
Now do you actually have anything to say about FF14? You are not in the OB? You are just taking an easy opportunity to randomly stir up nonsense? So far I haven't heard that many replies other than crying about the fact that someone found something wrong with the current development. I encourage you to try harder and come up with something intelligent to say about the game and it's current condition for PC release. Good or bad I don't care as long as it's actually thought provoking.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Thank you for shareing the pictures. I guess the fact that the whole envoirement feels way more alive than in other games does it make very easy to overlook repeating things. At least this was my impression in the beta as well.
I found it odd that you called out non-native speakers when the posts were perfectly readable if you bothered to read it more than once. Is it because his opinion differed from yours? You keep telling people to stay on topic, yet you've gone out of your way to be inflammatory. It detracts from your posts when you continually tell people to GTFO of your thread for bad English or different opinions. Would it be too bold to say you have a case of unwarranted self-importance?
Since you are asking for opinions of FFXI, I will oblige that request. I played the OB for about 12 hours, and didn't notice overly recurrent landmarks on my own. That doesn’t mean I think it is okay to reuse objects to the extent you've shown. I also believe that of the problems the game currently faces this is not a pressing issue, and for the average gamer I doubt it would be gamebreaking. So, in sum, it stinks they reused graphics so much. They shouldn't have. However, it won't weigh on my decision whether or not to play this game.
Well... to be fair, he was only doing what you were doing unto another poster, criticizing on his/her use of english.
Thanks for the screenshots, I liked them.
Your point is a valid one: how do people feel the variety cross area wise, are the areas distinct or also a lot the sameish? And how many landmarks are there compared with other MMO's?
Maybe a question I should post in a separate thread, but did anyone in the beta already do a worldsize measuring test? Like running at normal speed for 20-30 sec in a straight line, and then comparing and extrapolating it on a map to see how large an area or the overall revealed world is?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Bah, double post, sorry!
I agree. I was impressed by the blowing leaves and wind while travelling around outside of Limsa Lominsa, while looking back at the town and towards the mountains. It felt immersive, even though I did notice obvious patterns in the landscape.
Also what is worthy to take note of is that there are caves scattered around that you can traverse. I thought it was pretty cool how it was seamless while entering a cave, and upon exiting it, you were blinded by the light of the outside world. There was even a cave outside of Limsa Lominsa that was huge and crawling with monsters, although it was sort of bland, as that was practically the only thing inside the cave. Still, impressive that there is a world underneath the one you see when you first step outside. Although these caves might be exclusive to Limsa Lominsa - haven't had a chance to check out the other areas in-game, unfortunately.
I can't complain about the size of the areas. In fact, I was annoyed when I had to run all the way back if I was killed by a monster or something. I did a little travelling and I hardly felt the way area was too small, but again this was only in Limsa Lominsa, and it is just my opinion.
A complaint I do have for the areas is that, even though it feels like you are free to explore, there are subtle boundaries created by the monsters that roam around.
I remember trying to travel up north just for the sake of discovery, and being stopped by an incredibly powerful crab-like monster that was blocking a somewhat narrow stretch of the path. I knew I probably wouldn't be able to get past it, so it was forced to go somewhere else. Just a little pet peeve of mine, but some people will probably see no problem with this - and for some areas, I wouldn't either. It's just disconcerting when you're travelling in a seemingly peaceful area when suddenly you are 1-shotted by an evil crab monster!
I like non instanced caves myself! The feeling of adventure and coming actross an uncharted plot of land is a thrill in a good MMO.
I remember 6-7 years ago when I played Star Wars Galaxies and I came across my first non-instanced cave system, it was a pretty cool experience. Nothing like that had been done to quite that extreme. I would have thought in 2010-2011 we could have much more depth to our MMO's compared to 2004. Consol MMO porting effectively clamps down on the possibilities though I geuss because of hardware.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Ah, I remember EQ, all the caves and dungeons were non-instanced
It gave off a great one open-world feeling that everyone lived in, that's missed sometimes in current MMO's.
But, that was a bit offtopic.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Like someone said, this game is meant for a Japanese audience. The fact that the IP is FF legitimizes the P2P model, but the repetitive nature is noticeable.
SE isn't God. They can make mistakes too. FF14 will probably be a bit of an embarrassment and lesson learned for SE.
Although, its hard to blame their though-process. In these economic times, cheaply producing something with a name like FF will almost assuredly generate some profit. It's not as if they are doing it on purpose, It's probably that they need to realize some profits and are on a tight schedule to do so.
Thus, you will notice repetition. Maybe too much? I guess it's for the PS3 players to decide when the PC beta is done in March :P
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
The reason I want to know your game background:
I want to know if you are one of those players that jumps from mmo to mmo, or takes long hiatus from your bread and butter mmo due to flaws or dissatisfaction. If you are searching for a game that is fun with 0 flaws , you are never going to find it. Even GW2 with it's skyrocketed hype and facts. Will not ship flawless. The question is if a games pros outweigh the cons. For me, FFXI,GW2 and Swtor have me at hello. I don't trust any reviews to determine if a game is for me or not. To find the truth for yourself is the only and best review. When you find the game that is your home. It's just something you feel, you know it's right. So until I get my actual game time with FF14. All opinions biased or not will not sway me.
Dont know what you are smoking...but its bad for you.
Lovin your work chou.
Whether an argument, based on opinion, is shallow or not is really a matter of opinion again. IMO, the criticisms given so far, in this thread, are shallow. They seem to be trying to make the correlation that re-using terrain graphics means that everything else will be re-used and boring. This simply isn't a logical argument and has nothing to do with opinion.
BTW, just because people "anticipate" something based on something else does not make it valid or reasonable.
As the world is seamless, it would be virually impossible to have unique landscape everywhere due to the processing power, using repeated, already loaded landscape would speed it up. Its probably down to the PS3 - Damn you console users!!
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I'm just coming from my first few hours after getting in open beta and must confess while I like it from atmosphere the terrain copying truly IS extreme and for me very disturbing, irritating and confusing even. I like to not use the map too much but here I get literally lost without it because stuff looks the same behind every corner. And I play in the dense forrests of Gridania.
Before I realized it is "just" a copy'n'paste of the terrain I happened to stood confused in front of a lake or such how I ended up here again while heading straight into one direction?!? Well I did not, I just found the next copy of the very same lake...
So why not just remove all the copy-over landmass as there is nothing to explore and just more distance for running. The only thing different seems to be vegetation (sometimes) and mobs. It makes the whole thing feel very generic though which is quite a shame considering how much time and effort was spent on optics and atmosphere.
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
That actually makes a lot of sense.
Which is why console ported PC games are things to avoid >_<
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
The PS3 is a pretty powerful machine...so I am not buying this argument on conjecture alone. They could always tone down the texture or other details on the PS3 if that was necessary.
Considering FFXI did a much better job than FFXIV seems to be doing, I think it is more likely that development was rushed and the game should have been delayed a year or more. Like so many MMOs in the last 6 years, FFXIV is starting to look rushed.