Evidence of extreme copy-paste development in FFXIV

choujiofkono

     Every spot circled in this FF XIV Map is an exact in game copy of an adjacent spot of similar color/size.

     Seem unbelievable?  Believe it.  This is what developers are shoving down your throats these days.

     Vote with your wallet.

 

 

     Whatever the acceptable level of repetition in a game, with Final Fantasy XIV now in the late stages of development it may be too late to expect action on this front – of course, with only  8-15hours of weekly play allowed, perhaps it is hoped players will not have time for the scenery to become too repetitive.

Voramar

You think thats bad...the actual in game graphics are copy pasta'd too!  Terrible game this FFXIV is!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La9nLBfH44c

Unknown

Originally posted by Robokapp

that's much more than I'd like to see...for example I shouldn't find a new lake I never seen before and know exactly what I'm about to find before exploring it.

 

but in FF's defense, WoW caves for example have a general shape as well. some more than others but generally there's 3-4 "patterns" for caves copied over and over.

 

...and taverns..and indoor layouts...and docks...and trees...WoW reuses a lot in many places. The terrain though to me is a little different, why copy the land mass itself?

Does it also have the same mobs? I mean have they just copied and pasted the terrain, or the encounters as well?

ProfRed

Welcome to video game development.  All MMO's reuse a ton of content especially in the world.  Although the FFXIV tilesets are limited.  I can't wait for them to expand on the world and add more.  I think a lush jungle and a beach/oasis tileset will rock when they add it eventually.  I bet you money they will too.  =D

choujiofkono

Originally posted by Robokapp

that's much more than I'd like to see...for example I shouldn't find a new lake I never seen before and know exactly what I'm about to find before exploring it.

 

but in FF's defense, WoW caves for example have a general shape as well. some more than others but generally there's 3-4 "patterns" for caves copied over and over.

     Your statement does not defend FF in the least.  What is does is damn the developers of two companies.  We already knew WoW development has become corrupt from increasingly transparent decisions designed to psychologically convince their young player base of the necessity of spending more cash over the existing subscription cost (which is ridiculous).  But this post is aimed at SE FF and not WoW.

Shiymmas

Originally posted by Robokapp

that's much more than I'd like to see...for example I shouldn't find a new lake I never seen before and know exactly what I'm about to find before exploring it.

 

but in FF's defense, WoW caves for example have a general shape as well. some more than others but generally there's 3-4 "patterns" for caves copied over and over.

Eh, WoW caves were definitely deja-vu when you'd go into them, but it's not like they were the overwhelming majority of the game.  In fact, they were pretty few and far between iirc.  Of course my experience is all pre-WoTLK....

 

But I dunno.  This really looks like deja-vu everywhere you turn.  The video linked is a bit ridiculous, too.  It's one thing to use a certain pattern or theme to an area, but this doesn't even look like it took the effort to C&P.  More like randomly generated from a very, very small selection of objects to fit in pre-determined areas.  I might have to hop back into the beta and really have a closer look around to see how bad an effect it really is.

Illyssia

Actually just about every mmo has similar terrain features, in WoW I can remember the desert zones being pretty featureless, but not just WoW, EQ2, Aion, AoC...etc. Most noticeable in space games to make the world, large, e.g. EvE and Star Trek Online. Most of the features circled are features like lakes and in games an ordinary pond will look like an ordinary pond. Players who went OB actually made threads here complaining about how overly large and complex the starting cities were in XIV for them...they got lost. Finally, to OP I would have to write that why not post your own screen shots of the features rather than posting a map that is googled from a fansite...it makes your post read like a dumb troller as it is.

choujiofkono

Originally posted by ProfRed

Welcome to video game development.  All MMO's reuse a ton of content especially in the world.  Although the FFXIV tilesets are limited.  I can't wait for them to expand on the world and add more.  I think a lush jungle and a beach/oasis tileset will rock when they add it eventually.  I bet you money they will too.  =D

     You won't have the cash to bet me with.  You will be spending that cash on the expansion that gives you what should have been included in the game in the first place.

     Let us not forget that WoW makes over 100 MILLION dollars of profit every month.  People are voting with their wallets.  If you are willing to pay for a game that repeats 30% or more of the landmasses/encounters then that becomes the lowest common denominator and that's what you will get for the rest of your life. 

     The goal is to force developers and their employees to work HARD for our money.  To make games that draw us in and entertain us in ways that are worthy of current technology.  The new toolsets the companies have to develope games can either be used to churn out carbon copy money factories for them easily, or to make hyper detailed super encompassing MMO's like you all dream of.  The only deciding factor that counts is what you vote for with your cash.

Kokushibyou

Honestly, the blatant copying of tiles is the least of FFXIV's problems.  The craptastic UI is going to be the main reason people avoid it.  I can't think of any game that has been this anoying just to move your character in.  Let alone try and get through the menus.

birdycephon

By all means, don't buy this game. Leave it to the people who aren't so shallow, and love it for what's on the iside, and that being a fun and complex game.

Eladi

Originally posted by choujiofkono

Originally posted by ProfRed

Welcome to video game development.  All MMO's reuse a ton of content especially in the world.  Although the FFXIV tilesets are limited.  I can't wait for them to expand on the world and add more.  I think a lush jungle and a beach/oasis tileset will rock when they add it eventually.  I bet you money they will too.  =D

     You won't have the cash to bet me with.  You will be spending that cash on the expansion that gives you what should have been included in the game in the first place.

     Let us not forget that WoW makes over 100 MILLION dollars of profit every month.  People are voting with their wallets.  If you are willing to pay for a game that repeats 30% or more of the landmasses/encounters then that becomes the lowest common denominator and that's what you will get for the rest of your life. 

     The goal is to force developers and their employees to work HARD for our money.  To make games that draw us in and entertain us in ways that are worthy of current technology.  The new toolsets the companies have to develope games can either be used to churn out carbon copy money factories for them easily, or to make hyper detailed super encompassing MMO's like you all dream of.  The only deciding factor that counts is what you vote for with your cash.

WoW is a freak in its gerne jeez , everyone knows that by now. so that 100 million ( would like to know were you got the report on that) is unreal for every other mmo as every other mmo does not have millions of users not even half a million in 90% of the case.  and not even 200k in 50% of the cases.

if a game is dull, repeative, simple, buggy sure complain.  but i would like to see those zones INgame not on the map but as actual locations and see how mutch they do look alike.  and as said. every game uses verry repeative tittles for there ground work.  , its the actual decoration/design that counts if a world is just the same all over or not.

complaining about sutch a trival matter like this is just wanting to put a game down for the sake of it or trying to find some attention.

ps: nope not a FxxIII whatever fan, never played any of them , never will most likely.

 

choujiofkono

Originally posted by Illyssia

Actually just about every mmo has similar terrain features, in WoW I can remember the desert zones being pretty featureless, but not just WoW, EQ2, Aion, AoC...etc. Most noticeable in space games to make the world, large, e.g. EvE and Star Trek Online. Most of the features circled are features like lakes and in games an ordinary pond will look like an ordinary pond. Players who went OB actually made threads here complaining about how overly large and complex the starting cities were in XIV for them...they got lost. Finally, to OP I would have to write that why not post your own screen shots of the features rather than posting a map that is googled from a fansite...it makes your post read like a dumb troller as it is.

     As I stated above, listing other games that have repeating features is not making a case in FF defense at all.  You are clearly making the point I have been trying to convey for the last couple years on the state of MMO game development in general. 

     I am really going to try and not take the bait on the "Troller vs. Fanboi" debates anymore.  I am neither of those things on any game.  I play games for my own enjoyment, but being older and more experienced than some other players with game development I state facts as observed by myself and my friends and it is put on this site for the sole purpose of educating my fellow MMO players on the current state of MMO's as I play them.  After all, you people who play these games with me are contributing directly to the fun-factor and I feel obligated to expose the underbelly of MMO gaming from a consumers point of view.  I owe these game developers absolutely NOTHING except the subscription cost of the game as I play them.  If the game is sub-standard as judged by me and my peers and others involved in industry then I absolutely have the right to bring those facts to the public.  I will praise a developer when/if they earn it.  When we are talking MILLIONS of dollars at stake,  our judgements as players should be intensely severe. 

    

Illyssia

Originally posted by Robokapp

 in WoW I can remember the desert zones being pretty featureless

 as opposed to...real deserts?

 

"featureless" is an actual feature of deserts.

 

LOLZ...totally featureless

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://images.everytrail.com/pics/fullsize/263433-nevada-red-rock-canyon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://naturallyearthfriendly.com/bryce-canyon&usg=__uqf6258eC7JIuhurXLFvuTSyysU=&h=400&w=500&sz=153&hl=en&start=73&zoom=1&tbnid=Wc4LoGipt2SMoM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=208&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpicturesque%2Bdesert%2Blandscapes%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1606%26bih%3D941%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C2109&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=692&vpy=289&dur=3066&hovh=201&hovw=251&tx=143&ty=103&ei=_1qLTNyhFJbKjAfi-9ScBg&oei=6VqLTM2pI8aGswavqZDqAQ&esq=5&page=3&ndsp=37&ved=1t:429,r:33,s:73&biw=1606&bih=941

bunnyhopper

Originally posted by birdycephon

By all means, don't buy this game. Leave it to the people who aren't so shallow, and love it for what's on the iside, and that being a fun and complex game.

So it's shallow to not want an overly repetitive game world? Setting that contentious viewpoint of yours aside... I think the point is being made that a game with masses of repetition is unlikely to be fun and complex on the inside.

ProfRed

Originally posted by choujiofkono

Originally posted by ProfRed

Welcome to video game development.  All MMO's reuse a ton of content especially in the world.  Although the FFXIV tilesets are limited.  I can't wait for them to expand on the world and add more.  I think a lush jungle and a beach/oasis tileset will rock when they add it eventually.  I bet you money they will too.  =D

     You won't have the cash to bet me with.  You will be spending that cash on the expansion that gives you what should have been included in the game in the first place.

     Let us not forget that WoW makes over 100 MILLION dollars of profit every month.  People are voting with their wallets.  If you are willing to pay for a game that repeats 30% or more of the landmasses/encounters then that becomes the lowest common denominator and that's what you will get for the rest of your life. 

     The goal is to force developers and their employees to work HARD for our money.  To make games that draw us in and entertain us in ways that are worthy of current technology.  The new toolsets the companies have to develope games can either be used to churn out carbon copy money factories for them easily, or to make hyper detailed super encompassing MMO's like you all dream of.  The only deciding factor that counts is what you vote for with your cash.

Well I really like this game.  Love it even.  I know it is a release version and will have to be expanded upon which SE did an amazing job at with FFXI.  I know if I wanted to wait 6 months to a year there would be more content and a more fleshed out game naturally.  I don't though.  I love this game, and I love MMO launches.  I am speaking with my wallet and fulling supporting this title.  I am buying the CE.  Who are you to tell me what is good/bad and what appeals to my taste or anyone elses.  Who are you to tell us how to spend our money?

Every MMO does this.  Every single one.  Since we aren't comparing I will just make that gross generalization.  Do you know why?  Because MMO's cost a crapload of money to make.  Now fans don't accept a bare bones solid core game at launch they want it to be on par with a released game that has an expansion or two out already.  That just doesn't fly with cost.  Look at SWTOR.. 150 million dollars+ and I guarantee you they reuse a crapload of recycled content.  Most devs don't have that to spend.  They have to get the game up and running and grow it with the playerbase.  Why do you care if enough fans float it and turn it into a fully fleshed out MMO that has been alive and growing for years?  Then you can jump in down the road and have all of your expectations met.  Otherwise keep holding out for that one title every 5 years that spends hundreds of millions just to have a fleshed out game that was not grown with a playerbase so that at launch it can be everything you think you deserve from an MMO title on launch day.

choujiofkono

Originally posted by Eladi

Originally posted by choujiofkono

Originally posted by ProfRed

 

  

WoW is a freak in its gerne jeez , everyone knows that by now. so that 100 million ( would like to know were you got the report on that) is unreal for every other mmo as every other mmo does not have millions of users not even half a million in 90% of the case.  and not even 200k in 50% of the cases.

if a game is dull, repeative, simple, buggy sure complain.  but i would like to see those zones INgame not on the map but as actual locations and see how mutch they do look alike.  and as said. every game uses verry repeative tittles for there ground work.  , its the actual decoration/design that counts if a world is just the same all over or not.

complaining about sutch a trival matter like this is just wanting to put a game down for the sake of it or trying to find some attention.

ps: nope not a FxxIII whatever fan, never played any of them , never will most likely.

 

    

     Do the research yourself, it takes very little time and you will find it well documented.  As far as no other game making that kind of cash a month that is also my point.  Developers are salivating at the idea of reaching that kind of profit but are unwilling to invest in a game worthy of attaining it without trickery and psychological manipulation.  It is cheaper and quicker to make a game with gimmicks and systems in place to "force" players into a sub + micropayment system as opposed to making a truly fantastic game that people are willing to spend cash on to see it develope further thereby creating more work for the developer.  You see where all this is going yet?  It doesn't have to be that way if we don't let it.

Illyssia

Originally posted by choujiofkono

Originally posted by Illyssia

Actually just about every mmo has similar terrain features, in WoW I can remember the desert zones being pretty featureless, but not just WoW, EQ2, Aion, AoC...etc. Most noticeable in space games to make the world, large, e.g. EvE and Star Trek Online. Most of the features circled are features like lakes and in games an ordinary pond will look like an ordinary pond. Players who went OB actually made threads here complaining about how overly large and complex the starting cities were in XIV for them...they got lost. Finally, to OP I would have to write that why not post your own screen shots of the features rather than posting a map that is googled from a fansite...it makes your post read like a dumb troller as it is.

     As I stated above, listing other games that have repeating features is not making a case in FF defense at all.  You are clearly making the point I have been trying to convey for the last couple years on the state of MMO game development in general. 

     I am really going to try and not take the bait on the "Troller vs. Fanboi" debates anymore.  I am neither of those things on any game.  I play games for my own enjoyment, but being older and more experienced than some other players with game development I state facts as observed by myself and my friends and it is put on this site for the sole purpose of educating my fellow MMO players on the current state of MMO's as I play them.  After all, you people who play these games with me are contributing directly to the fun-factor and I feel obligated to expose the underbelly of MMO gaming from a consumers point of view.  I owe these game developers absolutely NOTHING except the subscription cost of the game as I play them.  If the game is sub-standard as judged by me and my peers and others involved in industry then I absolutely have the right to bring those facts to the public.  I will praise a developer when/if they earn it.  When we are talking MILLIONS of dollars at stake,  our judgements as players should be intensely severe. 

    

I just asked you to post some screenshots of your OB experiences of similar features. The fact you cannot and just post second hand stuff from the web says a lot about you.

choujiofkono

Originally posted by ProfRed

Originally posted by choujiofkono

Originally posted by ProfRed

Welcome to video game development.  All MMO's reuse a ton of content especially in the world.  Although the FFXIV tilesets are limited.  I can't wait for them to expand on the world and add more.  I think a lush jungle and a beach/oasis tileset will rock when they add it eventually.  I bet you money they will too.  =D

     You won't have the cash to bet me with.  You will be spending that cash on the expansion that gives you what should have been included in the game in the first place.

     Let us not forget that WoW makes over 100 MILLION dollars of profit every month.  People are voting with their wallets.  If you are willing to pay for a game that repeats 30% or more of the landmasses/encounters then that becomes the lowest common denominator and that's what you will get for the rest of your life. 

     The goal is to force developers and their employees to work HARD for our money.  To make games that draw us in and entertain us in ways that are worthy of current technology.  The new toolsets the companies have to develope games can either be used to churn out carbon copy money factories for them easily, or to make hyper detailed super encompassing MMO's like you all dream of.  The only deciding factor that counts is what you vote for with your cash.

Well I really like this game.  Love it even.  I know it is a release version and will have to be expanded upon which SE did an amazing job at with FFXI.  I know if I wanted to wait 6 months to a year there would be more content and a more fleshed out game naturally.  I don't though.  I love this game, and I love MMO launches.  I am speaking with my wallet and fulling supporting this title.  I am buying the CE.  Who are you to tell me what is good/bad and what appeals to my taste or anyone elses.  Who are you to tell us how to spend our money?

Every MMO does this.  Every single one.  Since we aren't comparing I will just make that gross generalization.  Do you know why?  Because MMO's cost a crapload of money to make.  Now fans don't accept a bare bones solid core game at launch they want it to be on par with a released game that has an expansion or two out already.  That just doesn't fly with cost.  Look at SWTOR.. 150 million dollars+ and I guarantee you they reuse a crapload of recycled content.  Most devs don't have that to spend.  They have to get the game up and running and grow it with the playerbase.  Why do you care if enough fans float it and turn it into a fully fleshed out MMO that has been alive and growing for years?  Then you can jump in down the road and have all of your expectations met.  Otherwise keep holding out for that one title every 5 years that spends hundreds of millions just to have a fleshed out game that was not grown with a playerbase so that at launch it can be everything you think you deserve from an MMO title on launch day.

     If you know the facts and you still decide to dump $2-300 dollars into the game till it becomes "fleshed out". Then that is your choice no matter how ridiculous myself and others may find that decision. 

     SE is a massively successful game company.  They have been making hit games/movies in one form or another for more years then some of you have been alive.  Saying something like "don't have the money or resources to flesh out the game at launch" is just gross ignorance and a total lack of understanding of the world economics at play here. 

     The difference between you and I is that if someone offers you a glass of cool-aid when you are thirsty you will drink it.  If someone offers me a glass of cool-aid when I'm thirsty I want to know if the glass is clean and maybe how much sugar it has in it and if the guy washed his hands before making it.  There is nothing inherently wrong with either method but one way is safer and will yeild a better product next time around.

Bloodaxes

What facts? all games uses copy-paste things here and there.

My god I wouldn't believe there would be a game more hated then aion's launch till now with all these silly excuses to make the game look bad lol....

choujiofkono

Originally posted by Illyssia

Originally posted by choujiofkono

Originally posted by Illyssia

    

I just asked you to post some screenshots of your OB experiences of similar features. The fact you cannot and just post second hand stuff from the web says a lot about you.

     It says I was busy at the moment.  To appease your demanding desire for screenshots I will attempt to link some shortly.

Kyleran

Hmm, never heard of a game using extreme copy paste development before, not like CCP did it with EVE or anything.....

Oh wait..... nevermind....

So I've been playing the MMO that probably has the most copy/paste development of any out there for over 3 years and having fun somehow.

I don't think this is any big deal, but without having actually seen it for myself maybe the effect in a fantasy game is disconcerning.

choujiofkono

     These look like 4 shots of the same place.  They are not. 

     You can spend your money on whatever you want, but at least you know what you get for your cash now.

 

 

And another set of pics of different spots that look curiously similar.

 

 

     You may believe what you wish.  Personally I believe this game is a joke. 

Bloodaxes

Since when mountains had to look different in every 5 cm?

dinams

Originally posted by Voramar

You think thats bad...the actual in game graphics are copy pasta'd too!  Terrible game this FFXIV is!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La9nLBfH44c

Nice video

choujiofkono

Originally posted by bloodaxes

Since when mountains had to look different in every 5 cm?

     I don't think you are getting the facts straight.  Those pictures look like the same general area, like you said, about 5cm apart.  They are in fact DIFFERENT spots completely on the map and unrelated to each other.  Even the bends in the roads are so similar you can't tell them apart.  Which is conveniently hard to show through screenshots because they are so difficult to show that they are different areas HAHA.  THEY ARE COPY PASTED AREAS ON DIFFERENT SPOTS ON THE MAP. 

     I can't think of a way to make it any more clear than this. 

Milliecake

I played WoW for five years, I never really noticed the copy paste - well in caves it was obvious but in a way it helped to navigate. The terrain however, while I'm sure was a whole lot of copy/paste just never really made me notice it, I think because WoW had a lot of landmarks that made areas visually different, at least superficially.

 

Running around in FF14 everything seemed so generic. They need to add some landmarks, things that break up the scenery more.