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Evidence of extreme copy-paste development in FFXIV
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http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
Seems pretty silly to tell people to no buy the game based on terrain layout.
Seems like a pretty silly complaint all around.
Well I be damn HAHAHAHAHA! mmorpg dev's you sneaky basterds!! this is kinda hilarious to see and sad to know this is going on with some MMORPG games, starting to become major scams now, they are getting evilly greedy. My question is how and when and why made you search for the most unnoticed things, just how? it is like you know FF14 game structure.
I ask that no more talk of Eve or WoW be in this thread from this point on. Everyone is well aware of what those games are like and the copy/paste money generation techniques used for the least amount of actual development. A huge amount of people both like and hate Eve with a passion. I am one of the people that think it's a total waste of time/money. Take the Eve talk to the Eve forum if you feel like arguing about it. Please.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I never even noticed those similarities when I played it, you really went in to find bad things in the game....
But go on spout the "facts" across the world someone will hear you.
[quote]
[i]Originally posted by Uhwop[/i]
[b]Seems pretty silly to tell people to no buy the game based on terrain layout.[/b]
[b]Seems like a pretty silly complaint all around.[/b]
[/quote]
Towards finding areas that are the same... it's not that difficult in this game trust me. That's the point.
Towards the "based on terrain layout".
It's not just the terrain, whole towns are copy/pasted with very minor changes to them. I'm talking so close that you can't tell one from another if you log in the next day. You will be like.. "wait, this isn't where I was ... darn... wth am I?"
Pics of "similar" looking towns
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
LOL! nice work.
I thought that's the standard in MMO development.
Excellent thread. While some games (like WoW) do have caves that are layed out exactly the same, in general, I have never ever run into almost exact terrain copies ala FFXIV (as in screenshots and videos in this thread) in LoTRO or AoC. Now it makes more sense why AoC has lauded its "no copy and paste" terrain... at the time I failed to see what they were "bragging" about.
Sorry, but the screenshots/videos are damning. If developers could not have been bothered to futz with the terrain, what else did they copy and paste? Quest text?
FFXIV: 1 out of 5 snouts so far.
That comment says more about YOU than it does about the game.
Your awareness/lack of awareness of the games environment and the details about the game that complete your immersion into the MMO are things/variables that have nothing to do with the state of the game.
For the vast majority of players they will be noticing these blatant money grubbing techniques pretty quickly and I will bet my paycheck that it will annoy the living crap out of them as much as it does me.
Please in the future try to make comments that contribute something of value to the topic.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I don't get the OP's point, is it that much different from other MMO's, seriously?
As other posters mentioned:
A lot is copy pasted in MMO's, you will see it even more in MMO's with larger worldsizes, that's the trade off you get: smaller worlds, higher content density, more variation in a small area, vaster worlds, variation more spread out over a larger area.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will reply to this even though I don't want this to spiral into a WoW hate/love discussion.
An altar or a church or even chairs/houses whatever are expected to be reused in places. THEY ARE IN REAL LIFE!!!
A mountain pass, a winding road, a set of bushes, a whole town right down to the little details that are supposed to make it unique- ARE NOT.
THIS GAME COULD HAVE BEEN MADE USING PROCEDURAL GENERATION METHODS. If you don't know what that means, use google and find out. It's an automated system of "random" generation techniques using sets of limited data. In the case of the new FF.. very limited data.
Whether you people in general want to ignore this and use your "imagination" to magically make the game a ton o' fun (such as the Eve players-LoL@Eve) then that is your business. Personally I pay people to make games that entertain me so I don't have to "pretend" to find enjoyment.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Oh a new thread that should me let find the light? Or the only truth that is in the best case the same as that of the opener? Oh and if I find one it can not be the truth because it is not that of the opener?
Sorry it is senseless to even argue here when you have not the same opinion as the opener. I eman if someone like he or she can all talk good or bad or destroy arguments against the original opinion if he or she likes.
More than that though if you look at one of the online WoW map sites on highest detail there seems to be quite a bit of cut-and-paste present, see link below.
http://mapwow.com/
Yes there is copy and paste in every mmo, but not to the extent done in that overhead map example. That level of copy and paste making up that map is extreme even in this genre.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Well, yes, when WoW was released player owned arial mounts weren't present so the developers cut a lot of corners on the map.
I'm pretty sure I watched a video or terrain creation in an offline game once that explained this. But..in the video the rock outcroppings could be tilted,turned, and placed at different heights.
I think the most irritating for me is all the "cave entrances" looking identical. It does help locating the caves on a map though...
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
As someone who did not like any thing the game had to offer save crafting, but is still on the fence searching for a reason to love this game...
I will say that all this topic, and the comparison to other games does is fuel the hate fire burning in so many peoples heads about this game. It's not really a big deal. If you don't like the game, be like me and leave the game to the people that find something enjoyable in it. I dont't but for some reason here I am defending it...
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Try typing in english.
Furthermore try to also read the entire thread and examine each picture closely before making any judgements.
And for people that don't notice...
The pictures contain 2 sets of 4 shots although you'll have to scroll over to see the 2 on the right for the upper set and the lower set. So that means there are 4 separate areas on 4 separate spots on the map that were km's away from each other that had almost the exact same layout/textures trees, plants, road, etc.
These spots were happened apon randomly, after the fact that the copy/paste technique was noticed, and are not even close to the only matching spots that will be discovered in this game after more time has been spent inside it.
NO I will not be entertaining pm requests for anymore pics that have been taken by myself because I AM DONE wasting time on this game xD But feel free to post more of your own comparison shots here if you guys feel like it (for some reason I am quite sure people won't want to take the time now that they have seen what the deal is).
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
http://mapwow.com/
It also is not blatantly obvious as the maps of ff14. Hell, I do not see the same damn lake or hill a few feet from each other on WoW's map. You think copying ground textures is equivalent to what FF is doing to pretty much their landmarks in game?
BOOYAKA!
Good grief, I am just casually following this game, but after watching the video and map, I want to jump on the hate wagon.
We've all seen copy and paste jobs, especially in "man made" stuff. Actually that should to be expected, people making structures copy other people's structures. It's natural for humans.
I've played several mmos, and I don't remember the deja vu feeling on terrain. I don't remember seeing the same exact terrain feature, let alone 1 minute walking distance from each other multiple times.
Unbelievable. What in the world have they been spending all this time and money working on? My head's just about to explode from this publisher.
Not really. Repetative graphics does not in any way correlate with gameplay. FFXI had the same type of repetative graphics but had extremely deep story and gameplay. It seems people are just looking for a reason to hate the game now and, for some reason, want to convince everyone else to hate the game too.
Not liking repetitive graphics/gameplay does not make one shallow as the poster I quoted seemed to be implying. As for repetitive graphics not automatically equating to repetitive gameplay, that may well be true, but any kind of copy and paste to such an extent does lead invariably to people anticipating said dev team cutting corners in all aspects of the game.
Some people may well look for reasons to hate a game, personally i have no real opinions on the FF series as i have no inclination to play them. But there is no denying that there is a large amount of cut and paste going on in that picture. It is very interesting to see people defending it by simply calling the OP 'shallow'.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Folks that are trying to compare this with the re-use of buildings in various settings (ala WoW taverns) are grasping at straws for defense. I mean, sure other games re-use stuff, but at least the area in which things are re-used is at least varied to a very large degree from the last location. I mean, a tavern in Lakeshore might've been identical to one in Tirisfal (yay for earlier link to that WoW map) but the arrangement of the area around it was completely and utterly different.
At any rate, I don't think anyone most folks are aiming to conspire against SE and/or convince the folks who are enjoying themselves to hate the game. People are just here discussing an issue with FFXIV, or expressing their shock over what's been presented to them. What I don't understand is why there's this incessant need to defend something that isn't being attacked. I mean, if it bothers you then move on. If you're enjoying the game, who the hell cares? I'm sick of seeing other folks say it, but damn - it's a forum after all...
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I think it's more about people getting annoyed with how other posters take offense over the game over the slightest things, often over things that they themselves have no problem with.
Procedural generation and copying has been used in all kinds of forms in MMO's from the beginning of MMO's, and people played those games while having fun and enjoying them.
It seems that a lot of MMO gamers have become a lot more jaded and unable to find enjoyment in MMO's if it's not spoonfed or if it's different from what they know. Just a general observation watching all these game forums, at the moment I'm merely a curious bystander when it comes to FFXIV.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."