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Funny example of Bioware saying 'SWTOR is OUR story, not YOURS'
agaga
Member Posts: 273
This is a journalism piece from www.examiner.com by the gaming journalist Shawna Blumenschtein
Bioware’s The Old Republic says no to overweight female characters
Bioware’s upcoming MMORPG, The Old Republic, will allow players to create male or female characters. Gamers will have the option of slim, muscular, or fat for male characters, but only slim and muscular for female characters. Why the difference? Shouldn’t there be equity in all things? Is this sexist?
The weight of characters in video games is typically a non-issue. Games are like movies – escapism. Everything and everyone is usually pretty. However, since Bioware has allowed the creation of fat male characters, the lack of that option for female characters becomes a potential firestorm.
Why shouldn’t women get the option to play heavier characters? Is there something offensive or off-putting about overweight women, but not men? Why is creating a fat man “okay,” but a fat woman is “wrong?” Why include the overweight body type in the first place (a decision that seems to indicate a desire to represent everyone, including heavier gamers) but then exclude women? These are the questions such a disparity raises.
To date, the issue has generated forty-one pages of discussion in The Old Republic’s official forums. An associated poll, in which 792 community members voted, indicates 25% think this decision (or rather, omission) is sexist. The issue was also discussed in episode sixty-seven of the podcast, TOROcast.
Rather than being sexist, this omission says more about our culture’s ideas of gender, gender stereotypes, and body image. Western culture tells us that women shouldn’t be fat. When, since Roseanne Barr, has a television show featured a heavy woman? None that I can think of. But there are reams of sitcoms that pair heavy men – who likely wouldn’t be deemed attractive by traditional standards – with slim, pretty women. The shows According to Jim, King of Queens, and Still Standing are some examples. The opposite pairing is almost non-existent.
Or perhaps there’s something a little more, shall we say, insidious going on here. Perhaps Bioware is of the mind that The Old Republic will only appeal to male gamers, and that no male gamer would want to create a fat female character and then be stuck staring at her for hundreds of hours. In which case, wake up, Bioware. Women game. And some men find heavy women attractive.
Comments
It's downright stupid to include fat males but not fat females. That being said, I think you're going a bit overboard with the culture discussion.
There have been and are fat women on TV. I think there is even a fat girl on Glee which is the most popular show on TV. And it's not Western culture that tells us people shouldn't be fat, it's modern medicine. Being fat is extremely unhealthy and is a major medical issue - especially in the western world. So anything that tells people that being fat is bad is ultimately a good thing for the world, if not for a person's ego. But honestly, encouraging ignorance by saying "it's great you're fat" is quite possibly the worst thing that can be done.
There is no anti-fat conspiracy.
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Oh, I should say - the moaj body of the post is a cut and paste job from the actual article. I didn't write it.
I think "Someone's" got a thang for the chubbies XD
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What? It's a funny article about a semi-serious issue.
I think the real issue is, that people see sexism, discrimination, etc. in everywhere. Maybe it's just an attempt to get as few body types as possible? Or maybe it's technical decision because otherwise they'd have to do extra job to adapt armors to diffirent sized breats?
EDIT: Also, has it been stated that fat version of female body will not be included in retail? Maybe it's just that they haven't yet done all the customization options? /EDIT
That is a good point the female body is harder to model for due to is unique shapes especially when weight is concerned. Women tend to have more curves on their bodies than men, then you have breast size which also can be affected by weight and how the breasts set on a woman. Men tend to carry a more simple frame which is easier to adjust to different body types. Should that make overweight women, honestly if that do thats cool, if not thats cool too. It is just a lot of work to created the different model options for such. And you know just jackoff will go well if i can make my woman overweight why cant i give her triple F breasts (Scary I know).
We go trough life with many yet there is a time we must walk our path alone.
Of all the stupid things to complain about. Do you honestly want to see a bunch of fat women running around? I know I don't.
Agaga, I see you complaining about this game so much, it is as if you have some kind of an agenda to push here. Why don't you just not buy the game if you are this unhappy with it? I don't go around bashing every other game out there because I am a fan of a particular game. The devs know what has been said and what people think. Old news is still old.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Obesity is no laughing matter. My grandpa died from a twinkie related incident in the 1940s.
In Bioware we trust!
A semi-serious issue? LOL, now that's funny.
Ever met a woman that wanted to be fat? Yeah, I haven't either. Still, if it's something that could be used to fuel some hate over a video game, have at it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I call shenanigans. Plenty of men have curves. Evidence:
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=18392
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=17353
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=17085
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=17013
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
This is quite misguided.
The difference between the Media's sense of Fat and the Medical terming of obesity are at such polar opposites its hardly fair to even compare them.
The Media (and Im including Bioware in this if they choose to omit the larger lady) would have us believe that anyone over a size 8 is a fatty and should jump on a diet that includes popping Alli pills and Adios more than regular healthy meals. Basically if you arent shitting water, you're doing it wrong.
Medicine doesnt care about your body shape, or whether you can fit into your size 8 jeans, it just emphasises a healthy lifestyle through balanced meals, exercise and restraint when it comes to unhealthy things such as booze. If you hit the obese level, they will STILL have the focus on these elements of a healthy lifestyle, and not the newest fad superfoods or crash diets. (Obviously there are exceptions to this with the morbidly obese that need medical intervention)
Cultural pressures are most definitely to blame for the constant striving for the skinny figure, and Bioware should be ashamed that they feel the need to propagate this.
I think I had a Twinkie from that same batch the other day.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I can make fat female hobbits in lotro...
Make it so...
I think my iq just dropped a few points from reading this thread. Seriously though OP why complain to us about it. How about sending Bioware an email stating that you have a hardcore desire to play a 300 pound woman jedi doing flips and insane lightsaber swings.
On a serious note though it is rather sad that everyone tries to find sexist or discriminative things in everything these days. Even something as simple as a video game which let me remind you the choices the designers make is up to them not us. If they don't want fat women in their game then why the hell should they have to include them? If you're writing a book or creating something do you have to follow templates to make sure that you don't offend someone or please everyone that may be interested? No you make things based off what you want to do. Video games follow that same pattern even though one like this is meant for the masses. I seriously doubt leaving out fat women will hurt this game from a marketing standpoint so its pretty much a non issue.
That's all i have to say on this topic. Definitely don't want to hurt anymore brain cells so i think i'll stay off this site for a bit.
Yes and no. There media certainly does push an image of 'what is acceptable' that is technically below what is medically advisable, but then half of it is airbrushed anyway. That being said what any person 'carries' in terms of a healthy amount of body fat and a BMI is indeed set by the field of medicine. You can fit into size 12 jeans and still be healthy (dependant upon height and age ofc), but there are many many many people that are overweight. You blame the current culture for promoting an unrealistic image, when in actual fact, it's the current culture of people sitting on their fat asses and eating big macs all day whilst driving 100 yard journeys that is far worse.
If people are eating healthy, varied diets, exercising and watching what they drink/smoke then they certainly don't have to be size x, but the fact of the matter is the vast majority simply do not do that and as such they are chubby fuckers (male and female).
All that aside, that TOR wont have fat women in it is hardly an issue to be fair.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
They just released a new show on CBS I think called Mike and Molly. The main chick in that is twice the size Rosanne was, so ya the original article doesn't pay attention much.
Isn't this the same game that original had the "The gay word will be censored in the game since there were no gays in the SW universe" issue before too? It seems this game just likes controversy really.
I don't think its a conspiracy at all, I think they we're just saving money on resources.
Fact, is, there are quite a few males willing to make an overweight character, not sure why, but they don't seem to mind.
I can't see many males or females that would be willing to create a fat female character, so why bother doing the extra coding and modeling for something that will be rarely ever used by the player base.
They aren't saying that this is their story (though I guess it really is due to its design) as a snub, they just can't see spending dollars on something not all that useful.
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Do they allow women characters to have beards? And if not where is the outrage from the bearded ladies of the world?
In Bioware we trust!
I understand what your saying here...I don't disagree...To a point at least...We all understand what marketing does and how the female body is unrealistically portrayed in the media...But the discussion is about Fat people and Fat shape...Not "big-boned" or "curvy."
How is what arieste wrote misguided when we are talking about Fat people (cause that was what the discussion was originally about...Fat, not over size 8)? It's fact...Being Fat can lead to a laundry list of health concerns. Being obese can kill you...This is not up for debate. True enough medicine does not care about your body shape...Medicine can do little about genetics anyway...But to imply medicine does not consider it as much of a problem if someone is fat in comparison to obese is absurd...And unfortunately, all too often I hear this argument about the media stereotypes come up when these are actually two completely different issues...Both valid, but different. And I wonder if the stereotype argument is not overplayed a bit because folks simply do not want to live the healthier lifestyle they know they should..."I'm not really fat, I'm just a curvy...Pass me the cheeseburger and yes I'll super-size it..."
In a way I think you're both right, but unfortunately your argument allows far too many people to look in the mirror and say everything is OK. And if those folks are overweight that's every bit as bad as pushing this perfect image crap down our throats...Weight issues are a massive health concern in America...There just no telling how big it it...I think in the end the issues of weight and our overall health dwarf those of media stereo-types that are admittedly misguided...So as a Personal Trainer and a man who lost his God Mother to obesity when she was only 27 years old...I think the 2 debates and arguments should be completely separate...That's all I'm saying...
So wait, is this thread about not being able to make heavy female characters, or about the storyline? OP, your thread title doesn't make sense at all.
While I think the case for thin-bias is valid, it's also true that were BW to include the option to have fat women, no one would actually make use of it, other than as a joke. I mean, why go through the bother of expending development resources on a feature that will go almost totally unused, aside from promoting political correctness?
I'm sure BW will take some heat for the decision, which I also think would be somewhat warranted, but I personally can't fault them for being realistic and pragmatic.
BS. Fat men are pretty much just as curvy as fat women.
Frankly, this IS sexist. There's no good reason for the difference, and it is based on gender. It certainly is a cultural though. The most sensible solution would simply be not having a fat male option though.
You are neatly avoiding the fact that fat males ARE in the game and make far more common appearances in popular culture. In any case, Phantom is right on all counts. The portrayal of how women look sets an insane standard and is generally one of being underweight and that's not healthy at all either.
Yes, we have a weight problem in 1st world countries, but how does that justify a game "feature" that acts like overweight males aren't a problem but overweight females shouldn't exist?
In my two years on the SWTOR forums, and the fact I own and participate on the forums of pretty much every game bioware ever put out since baldurs gate 1. I can say without pause, and with utter certanty, this is hands down the dumbest f'in think for a community to get in arms about.
In keeping with the level of this thread:
"you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul"
You're joking, right? ONE example of a TV show with an overweight woman and you declare everything is ok? The article listed several shows with overweight males. It's a fact that overweight males in popular culture are quite common and unnotable. One overweight female however is pretty unusual and nearly unheard of as a main character in a show.