Funny example of Bioware saying 'SWTOR is OUR story, not YOURS'

Ceridith

This is probably the only justification for the overweight male model anyways...

agaga

Originally posted by sacredfool

 

Are you people CRAZY??

How many fat women did you see in Star Wars movies?? And how many fat women were Jedi?

Jed Porkins! And she had a beard!

eyeswideopen

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

The guy who is arguing against all the shows and people that we list as fat, to show how wrong the article is that there aren't fat women on television, keeps trying to say that none of them are fat because his personal opinnion of fat is only once a person is in the obese category. There is a difference and Queen Latifah is fat. That doesn't mean there aren't people who find her attractive or who enjoy that body style or even that she is very unhealthy. It simply means she is fat.

I'm not saying none of them are fat.  I'm just make the pretty obvious statement that fat women in tv/movies are very rare.  Fat men are a lot less rare.  Fat women in such shows will have that obesity mentioned a lot more often and it will be a bigger deal (typically, I am sure there are rare exceptions).  The obesity of fat men largely goes unremarked upon (perhaps occasionally used for humor in a sit com).

Pretending there isn't a double standard here is rather ridiculous.

What you're failing to see is there WAS a double standard for the longest time. Over the last 10 years, increasingly every year, that double standard has been squashed in most mainstream entertainment. Of course, in some industries it still flourishes ( like modeling ) but even the modeling world is starting to shed its prejudices against the "fuller figured" woman. There are now even BBW pageants.

But the point here is, SWTOR is a game. Do I think they did it intentionally to discriminate against women? No more than they intentionally discriminate against transgendered or "flamboyantly" gay individuals by not allowing you to make them at character creation.

 

maskedweasel

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by maskedweasel

No what you are saying is that their bodies are different, but that isn't to say that women and men get hit "equally" with obesity.  How could you say that women and men are hit equally with "obesity" rather then "athleticism"  yet most of the time women aren't nearly as fit as men when portrayed in online games?  I don't know about you, but I know a lot of women that have facial hair, eventhough they may not want it,  shouldn't we be correct in allowing women to portray themselves with facial or.. body hair.  What about women that don't shave their legs or armpits?  Why won't a game represent that when it allows MALES to have hairy chests... WHY OH WHY!  Oh wait,  because in the end it doesn't really matter.  I forgot....

Frankly, those don't raise the same health issues, generally speaking.

Again, you ignore the fact that TOR is ADDING a new double standard here.  There's no defense for that.  Sure, I'd like all double standards to be done away with, but just because they exist that doesn't justify a new one being added to the list.

.... Its a game, not a social experiment,  not a medical trial,  not a way of life,  its a game.   "Little girls, lest we not forget, BioWare didn't have fat female character models in TOR, so let it be known that we can't have any of you becoming fat.  However,  if you do grow tentacles from your head like a Twi Lek,  that is acceptable."

 

Lets get over ourselves here,  this is a game,  and it is being looked into far too much over something as trivial as a body style.   It just goes to show you the lengths some people are going to for something relatively meaningless.

BeansnBread

Queen Latifah

Kirstie Alley

Roseanne Arnold (whatever her last name is)

Mimi Bobek (Drew Cary show)

Rosie O'Donnell

Delta Burke

Camryn Manheim

Marilyn Monroe

Oprah

Gabourey Sidibe

Kathy Bates

Kelly Osborne

Nikki Blonsky

Jennifer Hudson

 

I can't think of anymore. But there are definitely overweight actresses all over the place. Although, not likely in the same ratio as overweight people in real life. But then, the ratio in real life is ridiculously high.

red_cruiser

Anyone who thinks there should be fat women in SW:TOR isn't too familiar with the source material, and the space opera genre in general.  I'd really appreciate it if the habitually offended minority would constantly stop making up problems that can only be justified by a complete and utter lack of perception and common sense.  From the looks of things, Bioware has bigger issues to deal with than coming up with fat female bodies for whatever myriad assortment of alien races they decide to add, to justify the angst of maybe 2%(at most) of the player base that want to see this as some glaringly sexist omission.

Kabaal

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Lets get over ourselves here,  this is a game,  and it is being looked into far too much over something as trivial as a body style.   It just goes to show you the lengths some people are going to for something relatively meaningless.

It's MMORPG.com, i've became rather numb to that over the years as i'm sure you're almost getting to be... Que sera sera and be and be and be....

 

Edit - Typo

oakthornn

Originally posted by agaga

Bioware’s The Old Republic says no to overweight female characters

Bioware’s upcoming MMORPG, The Old Republic, will allow players to create male or female characters. Gamers will have the option of slim, muscular, or fat for male characters, but only slim and muscular for female characters. Why the difference? Shouldn’t there be equity in all things? Is this sexist? 

 

        Forgive me for sounding rude, but why would anyone want to create a fat character, regardless of gender?? For that matter, who would want to create an obese character? Most people enjoy creating,,,,,,,,,,,, "The perfect avatar" perfect in size, shape, and beauty. It's character creaton 101...

Now, I will admit, If you've played MMO's that included monster type of races, then obviously you can't make them look sexy lol.. Like for example, I created a Troll in EQ 2 and made him as evil/ugly/grotesque as possible.. That of course is different..

In SW:TOR, most If not all playable races will be humanoid in nature, which means a very high percentage of players will want to make their character as perfect as possible.. I highly doubt you'll see anyone creating a super obese Twilek smuggler or Jedi and think to themselves,, oooh yaa now he looks awesome! lol..

Although, I must admit since we the consumer are paying a monthly subscription that we should have freedom to create any type of character we want that looks realistic in nature.. Not like in Aion where you could make your character have a huge head and skinny body which just looked ridiculous... 

All I know is, Bioware or Lucas Arts or both made this decision and we have to either follow the rules guidelines or choose not to play the game.. *shrug*

agaga

The real point of this article, which nobody seems to have noticed is that:

- It seems to imply that SWTOR's character customisation is not very sophisticated since it doesn't allow for the height/weight scaling that so many MMOs have been featuring as standard (even SWG in 2003 let you do that)

- it also says something about the mindset of the Bioware developers. That they're insufficiently skilled to be able to balance  female shoulder/boob/height dimensions as they can for male shoulder/chest/height; or that they're too lazy to do so, thinking that we customers won't want to play or see fat females anwyay; or that they're too PC to allow us to make heavyset females; or some other reason I can't think of.

Not true?

WhiteLantern

Actually, at expansion 4: "Galactic Shark Jumping", you'll be able to roll a 6 breasted overweight "Dancer" and follow her story from the slums of Coruscant all the way to the glorious halls of a Hutt crime lord. Backstab Twi'leks (if you want to go dark side) while trying not to be Rancor food along the way.

Stormwatch

Originally posted by agaga

Why shouldn’t women get the option to play heavier characters? Is there something offensive or off-putting about overweight women, but not men? Why is creating a fat man “okay,” but a fat woman is “wrong?” Why include the overweight body type in the first place (a decision that seems to indicate a desire to represent everyone, including heavier gamers) but then exclude women? These are the questions such a disparity raises. 

There are almost no fat people in america at all. The fat people you saw in one out of hundred shows or movies are actually a lie, well made products of make-up artists. There is only one make-up artist specialized in this effect. She usually works for the advertisment industry, because they have the problem of selling fitness and wellness products to dynamic, fresh, young people that all americans naturally are. She would make the actor look fat so they can make a "before/after" advertisement for some fitness product. When they made this Roseanne show, this make-up artist was fully booked. Now you know why the fitness/wellness wave started after 1997.

This had an impact on the video games industry as well. When Shigeru Miyamoto designed a device similar as the WII-Fit for the Super Famicon in 1991, Nintendo dropped all plans to sell it, because they knew they couldn't sell it in the USA, as the Make-Up Artist responsible for making people look fat wasn't available.

A common conspiracy in europe is that John Goodman and John Candy have and had some overweight. But this was actually a cover-up from the CIA, but that's another story.

 

 

 

 

Trident9259

bioware says fat females are "un-iconic and un-starwarsy".

Ceridith

Originally posted by red_cruiser

Anyone who thinks there should be fat women in SW:TOR isn't too familiar with the source material, and the space opera genre in general.  I'd really appreciate it if the habitually offended minority would constantly stop making up problems that can only be justified by a complete and utter lack of perception and common sense.  From the looks of things, Bioware has bigger issues to deal with than coming up with fat female bodies for whatever myriad assortment of alien races they decide to add, to justify the angst of maybe 2%(at most) of the player base that want to see this as some glaringly sexist omission.

Then why are there fat male character models?

I can understand and could accept many of the explainations as to why there will be no overweight female character choice. The problem is, those same explainations and excuses are contradicted by the fact that there is a fat male character model available.

That's what makes it a double standard.

Skuz

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by red_cruiser

Anyone who thinks there should be fat women in SW:TOR isn't too familiar with the source material, and the space opera genre in general.  I'd really appreciate it if the habitually offended minority would constantly stop making up problems that can only be justified by a complete and utter lack of perception and common sense.  From the looks of things, Bioware has bigger issues to deal with than coming up with fat female bodies for whatever myriad assortment of alien races they decide to add, to justify the angst of maybe 2%(at most) of the player base that want to see this as some glaringly sexist omission.

Then why are there fat male character models?

I can understand and could accept many of the explainations as to why there will be no overweight female character choice. The problem is, those same explainations and excuses are contradicted by the fact that there is a fat male character model available.

That's what makes it a double standard.

^this^

 

You hit the nail on the head there.

So what BioWare is saying is that "Star Wars is an inherently Mysogynistic & sexist towards females universe & we are just staying true to that lofty ideal!".

Vulnero87

I understand why people are getting upset over what bioware is doing and you have every right to be.  Firstly, the game isn't even out yet, which means they can still add the overweight female model.  I haven't seen anything stating that they FOR SURE not going to do it.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Secondly, the fact your trying to be politically correct with a freaking video game is down right stupid in itself.  Have you ever noticed that a huge majority of video games have something that's ethically and/or morally wrong?  I mean a good majority of games have male heroes and if they even have the option of different sexes, the commercials, manual, and everything else dealing with the game is usually male.  I don't see anyone calling out companies on those issues.  How about the fact that MW2 has that mission were your a terrorist.  Granted the added the option of skipping it, but that doesn't deny the fact that it's still in game.

Lastly,  IT'S A VIDEO GAME

 

agaga

Originally posted by Troneas

bioware says fat females are "un-iconic and un-starwarsy".

Aaah, I remember when they said that about Creature Handlers, Chefs and Teras Kasi Artists and yet...

http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/100/1001652/ocd-star-wars-malakili-the-rancor-keeper-20090707004811613-000.jpg

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L25f8-n3RFw/SwqrIFFO-xI/AAAAAAAABJ0/w-Jvit2aYjg/s1600/800px-Dex_in_the_kitchen.jpg

 

http://i47.tinypic.com/mlttf7.jpg

Trident9259

didn't they want to keep gay people out as well, if i remember correctly?

abyss610

Originally posted by Skuz

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by red_cruiser

Anyone who thinks there should be fat women in SW:TOR isn't too familiar with the source material, and the space opera genre in general.  I'd really appreciate it if the habitually offended minority would constantly stop making up problems that can only be justified by a complete and utter lack of perception and common sense.  From the looks of things, Bioware has bigger issues to deal with than coming up with fat female bodies for whatever myriad assortment of alien races they decide to add, to justify the angst of maybe 2%(at most) of the player base that want to see this as some glaringly sexist omission.

Then why are there fat male character models?

I can understand and could accept many of the explainations as to why there will be no overweight female character choice. The problem is, those same explainations and excuses are contradicted by the fact that there is a fat male character model available.

That's what makes it a double standard.

^this^

 

You hit the nail on the head there.

So what BioWare is saying is that "Star Wars is an inherently Mysogynistic & sexist towards females universe & we are just staying true to that lofty ideal!".

 i agree as well, tho i don't really care either way honestly. they had to of known this was gunna make a stink. and to save the head ache they should have just made it with no fat option for anyone. would anyone really say " well i can't make a fat ass male in this game so i'm not buying it"? no, most games you have no control over the weight of your character and no one cares.

and is it a slider for fat,slender or muscle like in AoC or is it just 3 set renderings with no adjustments?

as some one else said i can see why they don't waste the money on developing fat females, because they'll rarely be used at all other than as jokes. like in Aion you can make your character any size or shape you want. i never ever seen any fat females ever in game anywhere. some fat short dopey ugly ass guys but no fat women ever.. BUT the fact is the option is there wich is only fair honestly.

my friend had a habit of making his characters in Aion as ugly as he possibly could(had made one that looked like MJ), and played them like that all the way to end game and liked it. i honestly couldn't have taken a character that looked like that seriously but he liked it. and made them that way to piss people off, because seriously, its bad enough to be killed but then you got killed by that ugly dopey lookin thing just makes ya madder. also most people would underestimate him because they figured some one that made that is just some goofy kid or something, wich was why he made them like that he told me lol

the point i'm getting at tho is, if you have the option for one you should give the option to the other. or remove it from both i don't care what they do really. and also like others have said, neither would be used very much at all and not having either fat males or fat males would be game breaker for anyone. but having one and not the other is a bit of a double standard.

Trident9259

Originally posted by agaga

Originally posted by Troneas

bioware says fat females are "un-iconic and un-starwarsy".

Aaah, I remember when they said that about Creature Handlers, Chefs and Teras Kasi Artists and yet...

http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/100/1001652/ocd-star-wars-malakili-the-rancor-keeper-20090707004811613-000.jpg

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_L25f8-n3RFw/SwqrIFFO-xI/AAAAAAAABJ0/w-Jvit2aYjg/s1600/800px-Dex_in_the_kitchen.jpg

 

http://i47.tinypic.com/mlttf7.jpg

yes but where are their litesaborz...?

 

Kyleran

Originally posted by agaga

The real point of this article, which nobody seems to have noticed is that:

- It seems to imply that SWTOR's character customisation is not very sophisticated since it doesn't allow for the height/weight scaling that so many MMOs have been featuring as standard (even SWG in 2003 let you do that)

- it also says something about the mindset of the Bioware developers. That they're insufficiently skilled to be able to balance  female shoulder/boob/height dimensions as they can for male shoulder/chest/height; or that they're too lazy to do so, thinking that we customers won't want to play or see fat females anwyay; or that they're too PC to allow us to make heavyset females; or some other reason I can't think of.

Not true?

No, it says there is no financially sound reason to spend the money to develop the code to create fat femaly body types (and all of the clothing/armor that goes with it) when its  likely that less than .000001% of the characters created will employ the mechanics.

Has nothing to do with being lazy or inept, simple economics folks.

Ceridith

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by agaga

The real point of this article, which nobody seems to have noticed is that:

- It seems to imply that SWTOR's character customisation is not very sophisticated since it doesn't allow for the height/weight scaling that so many MMOs have been featuring as standard (even SWG in 2003 let you do that)

- it also says something about the mindset of the Bioware developers. That they're insufficiently skilled to be able to balance  female shoulder/boob/height dimensions as they can for male shoulder/chest/height; or that they're too lazy to do so, thinking that we customers won't want to play or see fat females anwyay; or that they're too PC to allow us to make heavyset females; or some other reason I can't think of.

Not true?

No, it says there is no financially sound reason to spend the money to develop the code to create fat femaly body types (and all of the clothing/armor that goes with it) when its  likely that less than .000001% of the characters created will employ the mechanics.

Has nothing to do with being lazy or inept, simple economics folks.

Then what was the financially sound reason to spend money developing a fat male character body types and all of the corresponding clothing and armor when a miniscule percentage of players will use said model?

This question still has yet to be answered.

Moaky07

[snip]

As far as the OP though....I believe this is a non-issue as far as gaming is concerned. More of a PC issue. Since I dont play female characters(Save for Sheppard run thru....Jennifer Hale > Mark Meers), this wont be affecting me.

 

 

 

 

[mod edit]

oakthornn

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by agaga

The real point of this article, which nobody seems to have noticed is that:

- It seems to imply that SWTOR's character customisation is not very sophisticated since it doesn't allow for the height/weight scaling that so many MMOs have been featuring as standard (even SWG in 2003 let you do that)

- it also says something about the mindset of the Bioware developers. That they're insufficiently skilled to be able to balance  female shoulder/boob/height dimensions as they can for male shoulder/chest/height; or that they're too lazy to do so, thinking that we customers won't want to play or see fat females anwyay; or that they're too PC to allow us to make heavyset females; or some other reason I can't think of.

Not true?

No, it says there is no financially sound reason to spend the money to develop the code to create fat femaly body types (and all of the clothing/armor that goes with it) when its  likely that less than .000001% of the characters created will employ the mechanics.

Has nothing to do with being lazy or inept, simple economics folks.

 

        I'm inclined to agree with your assessment on the topic at hand...  

       The only purpose of creating a massively obese character is for kicks and giggles. I saw a Dwarf character in EQ2 who made himself look like Santa clause with the beard and everything. His name of course was, Santaz Clauz or something to that effect..  Point is, I guess it would be nice if the option was there, but Bioware decided It's not worth it in terms of time, effort, coding, budget, and obviously little to no demand from the community...

 

choujiofkono

    People arguing over degrees of fatness.  WoW.  I agree with the guy that said this would not be a feature that would be used much.  Women are generally not interested in the fantasy of being super obese and men making female characters would probably rage if they had to look at it for that long.   

Tazlor

yep, it's all part of our master plan.  because we ALL know how much EVERYBODY hates female gamers and trys to discriminates them in every way they can, and now we have the devs on our side.

 

seriously though, all joking aside, stop making every little thing into a big deal like everybody's out to get the female gamers.  we're not.  were you going to make a fat female character?  i highly doubt that.  i've rarely ever seen a fat female character in a MMORPG.  sure, just because i don't see many doesn't mean nobody does it, but seriously, how many do YOU see?  you're just complaining because you can.  saying 25% of the poll say this is a sexist move is just silly.  no?  really?  it's not like almost every women on the TOR forums is going to think this is sexist.  they scream sexist at the drop of a hat.

 

this could also be seen as a discrimination towards men.  only male characters can be fat?  what are they trying to say here?....omg...i'm sorry i have to go.  i need to make a thread on every forum i can find and tell people they're discriminating towards men.