[*] [color=#ee82ee]The game world look like WoW. [*] [color=#ee82ee]Weapons are huge and ugly. [*] Animations are poor. [*] Characters look ugly and cartoonish. [*] Game seem to be made for kids at age +3. [*] Story mode in a MMORPG?
Everyone will be Jedis.
Jedi class will be OP.
Game will sell a lot the first month, then it will start to bleed and later die.
Only the hardcore SW fans will be playing.
Stuck with SW rules and can't change much. Other games can.
[/list]
Ofc the game will get negativity. [/color] I for sure will not play it...[/color] [/b][/quote]
The world can use less pink. Glad you're leaving.
Edit: Whoa...I didn't touch anything. Jesus even the forum software seems to hate you.
People whine on this site about every game and wanna bring it down, look at every forum on this site its full of whiners and people who hate life or something,.. its disgusting if you ask me..
The game is not out yet complain after its out, then you have the right to if you even played it.. I noticed a good junk of people never play a game because of what others have said about it, then when they do play it they find out later they should pf never listen to that person....
Some advise try the game out for your self never listen to people on these forums .... when its negative most of the time they are wrong... I know this for a fact look at every game its full of negative posts.
Rubbish, So you want people to buy the game first and then complain if their is something to complain about? Where have you been for the lasg five years.
The days of gamers buying the game and paying for an ongoing beta are gone, we have been bit to many times for that. I am sure the bioware blindys would do that but Bioware already have your money no matter what. The rest of the mmorpg community who are not bioware blindys but just want a good mmorpg are not going to be fooled.
Lets see all these great features they keep spouting on about. The same dry line of " we have that but can't talk about it" has grown thin amongs mmorpg fans and gaming website.
The game's going to do fine, because EA, to protect its investment, is going to have an advertising blitz on this. They will spend some big bucks on promotions, probably with Lucas, etc on board. It will draw in a lot of new folks from the Star Wars crowd as well as the Bioware and MMOrpg types.
When you sink this much money into development, you throw some millions more in PR.
That doesn't stop some here from grinding their axes well before there are any real SW:TOR necks to cut.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
People whine on this site about every game and wanna bring it down, look at every forum on this site its full of whiners and people who hate life or something,.. its disgusting if you ask me..
The game is not out yet complain after its out, then you have the right to if you even played it.. I noticed a good junk of people never play a game because of what others have said about it, then when they do play it they find out later they should pf never listen to that person....
Some advise try the game out for your self never listen to people on these forums .... when its negative most of the time they are wrong... I know this for a fact look at every game its full of negative posts.
Rubbish, So you want people to buy the game first and then complain if their is something to complain about? Where have you been for the lasg five years. The days of gamers buying the game and paying for an ongoing beta are gone, we have been bit to many times for that. I am sure the bioware blindys would do that but Bioware already have your money no matter what. The rest of the mmorpg community who are not bioware blindys but just want a good mmorpg are not going to be fooled. Lets see all these great features they keep spouting on about. The same dry line of " we have that but can't talk about it" has grown thin amongs mmorpg fans and gaming website.
Its because of jaded players like you this site is turned into a whining pit full of tears and snot. Way too many assumptions and speculations about a game which is not even in closed beta. It would make sense if you atleast play beta and complain about it. Gives a little more credibility to your complaints.
Also you keep talking about WE this and WE that, who are these WE? you and your neighbour? you are so sure that Bioware is going to fool you when they have not even released all of the game info? i have no idea why you hate Bioware but i always find it funny when people hate something they have no direct communication with.
And then they complain that people arnt interested in playing their games??
How many here want to watch the same movie OVER AND OVER again? How many here wants to Read THE SAME BOOK OVER AND OVER??
This is what is wrong with the Industry today...
line up WOW, Warhammer, LOTRO etc for example, and look at what is really the diffrence betwen them?
Unless Developers start thinking in the Terms LETS MAKE SOMETHING DIFFRENT, we will see FAIL AFTER FAIL AFTER FAIL.....
Wrong analogy. It's more like reading a book in the epic fantasy genre, and then reading another in the epic fantasy genre, and another and another. After enough of those you might get enough of the abundance of similarities between books in that genre and want to try a book in another genre like scifi or urban fantasy, but they're still different books.
Reading the same book over and over again is more like raiding in WoW or other MMO's month after month, doing the same handful of dungeons over and over and over again.
That's the second thing what goes wrong in your hypothesis: if the majority of people preferred innovation and creativity, they would have given other MMO's that are different a far better and longer shot, games like Tabula Rasa, like Ryzom, Darkfall, Vanguard, Fallen Earth, Champions Online and Chronicles of Spellborn, instead of hanging around in WoW and WoW themepark-style MMO's doing the same things over and over again for years. This isn't what happened though, reality has proven you wrong.
People aren't that much interested in innovation, they find accessibiity, polish and an abundance of content far more important.
The latest example is FFXIV, FFXIV is doing a lot of things different from what is common in MMO's, and people hate it for it.
So innovation is clearly not the deciding factor, people might like some change and ninovation, but only if it falls within their comfort zone: accessibility, polish and lots of content is more important to the majority of them.
Like it or not, but SW:TOR falls exactly in that category, enough recognisability with the themepark MMO-style features, easy to get into (accessibiity), polish, a humongous amount of content, and enough differences to make it look and feel different.
This all gives it the right mainstream appeal, and Lucas Arts and EA Bioware have enough power and capital to add that other important factor in which WoW differred from other MMORPG's, namely raise public awareness into the collective consciousness of the masses of people via PR & advertisement.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And then they complain that people arnt interested in playing their games??
How many here want to watch the same movie OVER AND OVER again? How many here wants to Read THE SAME BOOK OVER AND OVER??
This is what is wrong with the Industry today...
line up WOW, Warhammer, LOTRO etc for example, and look at what is really the diffrence betwen them?
Unless Developers start thinking in the Terms LETS MAKE SOMETHING DIFFRENT, we will see FAIL AFTER FAIL AFTER FAIL.....
Wrong analogy. It's more like reading a book in the epic fantasy genre, and then reading another in the epic fantasy genre, and another and another. After enough of those you might get enough of the abundance of similarities between books in that genre and want to try a book in another genre like scifi or urban fantasy, but they're still different books.
Reading the same book over and over again is more like raiding in WoW or other MMO's month after month, doing the same handful of dungeons over and over and over again.
That's the second thing what goes wrong in your hypothesis: if the majority of people preferred innovation and creativity, they would have given other MMO's that are different a far better and longer shot, games like Tabula Rasa, like Ryzom, Darkfall, Vanguard, Fallen Earth, Champions Online and Chronicles of Spellborn, instead of hanging around in WoW and WoW themepark-style MMO's doing the same things over and over again for years. This isn't what happened though, reality has proven you wrong.
People aren't that much interested in innovation, they find accessibiity, polish and an abundance of content far more important.
The latest example is FFXIV, FFXIV is doing a lot of things different from what is common in MMO's, and people hate it for it.
So innovation is clearly not the deciding factor, people might like some change and ninovation, but only if it falls within their comfort zone: accessibility, polish and lots of content is more important to the majority of them.
Like it or not, but SW:TOR falls exactly in that category, enough recognisability with the themepark MMO-style features, easy to get into (accessibiity), polish, a humongous amount of content, and enough differences to make it look and feel different.
This all gives it the right mainstream appeal, and Lucas Arts and EA Bioware have enough power and capital to add that other important factor in which WoW differred from other MMORPG's, namely raise public awareness into the collective consciousness of the masses of people via PR & advertisement.
^ This. Couldn't agree more.
This site is full of negativity because those that aren't happy with their games are not playing them. They instead play the forums.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
The game world look like WoW. The same type of style yes, but wasn't KOTR in the same style?
Weapons are huge and ugly. Opinion.
Animations are poor. Opinion.
Characters look ugly and cartoonish. Opinion.
Game seem to be made for kids at age +3. How can you say that a game that is based on story will appeal to kids?
Story mode in a MMORPG? Yes, you know that pesky RPG part of MMORPG.
Everyone will be Jedis. Opinion. The other classes look equally as promising.
Jedi class will be OP. You know this from playing the game right?
Game will sell a lot the first month, then it will start to bleed and later die. Hard to tell until the game is out.
Only the hardcore SW fans will be playing. Opinion.
Stuck with SW rules and can't change much. Other games can. Most games do have a rule set, no game is a free for all.
Ofc the game will get negativity.
I for sure will not play it...
Game will sell a lot the first month, then it will start to bleed and later die. Hard to tell until the game is out.
I feel ff14 may share this fate. Not TOR. TOR seems like a game that will be action packed and fun easy to get into game. Which will keep most of the players more than the first month sub. Than it all depends on the end game and how well they can mantaine players through that.
Usually the games that fail hard are the ones where you have a hard time getting into them. You see a huge population on launch day and then after a month or 2 most of the people are gone. Most of the people got bored and left after a few days of trying to level.
People whine on this site about every game and wanna bring it down, look at every forum on this site its full of whiners and people who hate life or something,.. its disgusting if you ask me..
The game is not out yet complain after its out, then you have the right to if you even played it.. I noticed a good junk of people never play a game because of what others have said about it, then when they do play it they find out later they should pf never listen to that person....
Some advise try the game out for your self never listen to people on these forums .... when its negative most of the time they are wrong... I know this for a fact look at every game its full of negative posts.
Rubbish, So you want people to buy the game first and then complain if their is something to complain about? Where have you been for the lasg five years. The days of gamers buying the game and paying for an ongoing beta are gone, we have been bit to many times for that. I am sure the bioware blindys would do that but Bioware already have your money no matter what. The rest of the mmorpg community who are not bioware blindys but just want a good mmorpg are not going to be fooled. Lets see all these great features they keep spouting on about. The same dry line of " we have that but can't talk about it" has grown thin amongs mmorpg fans and gaming website.
I think people that are in beta should complain about problems before they show up on launch day. People in FF14 complained during cb and ob and alot of the problems are still there. It is fine to complain, but at least have some knowledge of what it is you are complaining about.
The only issue I have is wondering how well they pull off the MMO portion of the game. I mean I have a fear it will end up like Mass Effect in Star Wars universe. With everything so story based I wonder how we can be more than just a copy of all the others playing the same side same class. Im not trolling I am interested in seeing how Bioware pulls it off. On a side note. I asked my 10 year old boy after watching a few videos of SWTOR if he was interested in playing it....he looked at them and asked a couple of questions and said "nah I will stick with Wizards 101 and Free Realms."
I really thought he would have wanted to play it. Maybe he will when it comes out but after talking to him and his friend about it. Im not too convinced the younger folks give a damn about Star Wars. lol He said the first 3 movies look too old and the last 3 were OK as he put it.
I wonder how much of a cash cow Star Wars really is. I know a guy who sells Star Wars mem. out of his house through a website. He has no plan to play and he is the biggest SW fan I have ever meet. I like Bioware for their work in the past but I am worried for them on this.
I am sorry but your kid and his friend or your neighbour who is big star wars fan do not represent the entire population of SW fans. Its a big world out there and lots of people would be interested in it. We often look around our small social circle and think thats how things are for rest of the world. That is no reason to be worried about it.
I am very much looking forward to this game and continue to be cautiously optimistic. Each build they release shows improvement in the areas I was concerned about and they still have a lot of time. My first MMO was WOW followed by EQ2, Vanguard, Warhammer, LOTRO, Age of Conan, Aion, and Allods. I also just started beta testing Gods and Heroes (pretty world in my first 5 minutes :-). I never played SWG and quite frankly since I never heard of it until the trolling on these forums, I'm assuming it wasn't that successful in comparision to WOW and other smaller sub games such as LOTRO or EQ2 (I could be wrong).
Anyway, it seems to me that in my relatively short online gaming experience compared to some of you (I started in 2004 or so), that several games with very high hype and hope similar to what Guild Wars 2 has now barely lived up to their potential or expectations once the real reviews rolled in and the 3-4 month time frame had passed. I would say this about Vanguard, Aion, AOC (which has improved), and Warhammer (which I loved the first 2-3 months).
The Old Republic at least on these forums has more trolling then I can remember then the games I listed above so far before release (again, I could be wrong....Im just basing it on my general memory and feeling when I would pop in and out of the forums). It appears that Bioware has released very little information in comparision to their 150M budget. Keeping the hype lower and all of this trolling may actually help the game when they finally release a build that everyone can really dive into a really feel the world around them. I say keep trolling (including the site writers) because I think in the long run people here may be pleasantly surprised since the expectations and hype continue to be reset by the trolling itself. I actually think GW2 may suffer a similar fate because of the hype, though I'm hoping I'm wrong because I want to play that game in between this game when I just want to play something else that doesn't require a huge investment of time.
the most criticized game on this site is WOW and while I don't play the game I would not say it is a bad game either. SWG was a very differnt monster all together a very flawed game but many peoples first mmo and as such their first love so opinions are going to be difficult to change.
Having said that a great many of the very vocal complainers will not like the game but if you let them tell it they didn't like WOW either.
From my experience I'm willing to say that TOR is going to be easily the second most populated mmo for a good amount of time too because Bioware creates very engaging content and that many people who are looking forward to this game will not be disappointed and the complaining will equally always exist.
Wait for it sometime within the next three years all you will here is "is this the TOR killer" and "if you don't like it you can head back to your space ship on rails in tor".
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
The "negativity" (Should be read as realistic expectations not negativity) does not help lower people's expectations and thus help save themselves from being disappointed for hyping a product up in their mind. They just ignore it and then get disappointed anyway.
The cycle on MMORPG.com is fairly constant:
(snips)
For some reason there are a lot of people who just can't help but get over-hyped for each new MMO that is in the works, and then disappointed after preordering or buying a lifetime sub and they latch on to the next MMO in production. There is a severe lack of realistic expectations on this site, and anyone who offers one up is generally referred to as a troll.
Interesting scenario you sketched. A onesided and incomplete one though, with quite some false assumptions:
1. You presume that all negativity is merely 'realistic expectations'. It is not, there's sensible criticism here and there, sure, and besides that ther's a whole lot of unrealistic expectations, ranting, venting, misinformed and uninformed drawing of conclusions, trolling by people that like another game and trashtalking by people who've alrdy made up their mind how fail a game in their eyes will be. That's the 'real' reality.
2. You assume that all fans are just buying blindly into all the hype, abandon all common sense and realism. That's totally biased and not true. The group of fans are as diverse as the sceptics, ranging from reasonable to the extremes of fully onesided bias (ie 'fanbois' and 'haters').
3. You assume that the critics are always realistic and right in all their criticisms and that fans are always wrong, disappointed and the victim of their hype. This too is a false assumption. This trend of overhype followed by disappointment hasn't been always present since the time of UO or so, no, it is something merely of the last few years.
Now why am I saying that your view is very black & white and a skewed view of reality? Because I'm a representative of the group of gamers that don't fall into the extreme ends of either blind fanboism or biased cynicism/hatred.
I'm one of those MMO gamers that a) didn't fall for any hype, b) based on the info available had built realistic expectations of a game so was never disilliusioned when I started playing it, therefor c) had immense fun when I played those MMO games that by others were deemed utter fail as AoC, Aion and CO, and when I didn't enjoy them as much anymore d) I left them and moved on without regrets or a grudge against the companies that made them.
And there's a large group of fans and gamers that work like that, from a base of common sense and realism, perceiving good AND bad aspects of a game without prejudging or quick-judging regarding a game that hasn't even come out yet. They're only often not as vocal as the posters with the more extremist viewpoints towards either fanboism or cynicism/hatred.
It's all about managing your expectations and using some common sense and reason.
Regarding criticism: some cases are worth to fight for and push hard and raise your voices loud and often, like realistic lightsabre hilts, a change of the name 'Wizard', or PvP and free flight in space combat, or a hardware mouse option in FFXIV or being able to walk in GW2. Stated on the right forums those complaints can make a difference. Other cases are merely ranting and venting and unrealistic, like wishing for SW:TOR to have certain sandbox/SWG features where Bioware has clearly chosen another design path.
In those last cases there are really only 2 options: accept them for what the game is, or just move away if you can't accept the vision how the designers intend the game in the end to be.
Interesting use of the word "assume" when you were the only one doing so. You ASSUMED that because I mentioned fans taking realistic outlooks on the game that I must certainly mean ALL people who like the games are fans and ALL of the comments referred to as "negative" were actually reasonable.
Let me reanswer this question for you: Now why am I saying that your view is very black & white and a skewed view of reality?
Answer: Because you are one of those people that things every post is referring to you in some way and therefore you always have to "set the record straight" because you are so important and do not fit into the categories discussed. You are one of those people that love to carry the flag that reads "I don't fit neatly into any box and I love to point that out ever chance I get", guess what, no one does. Most of us just understand conversation enough to realize when someone says things about certain topics they are using invisible ALLs in an attempt to say everyone fits the picture they paint.
And clearly by your post (where you say you are not a fan) your tone and your "corrections" about the world of SW:tOR show that you are indeed a fan. But being a person who must rebel against labels of any kind, you refuse to put yourself into that category.
Learn to read a post and have a little fun/enjoy some of the humor in it instead of needing to jump on in simply to explain "I don't fit that scenario you painted, nope not me, I'm special, so ya you're wrong because I'm too amazing to fit into any label."
But my point is valid and stands. Star Wars does not have the clout that it once did. Nor does it capture the imaginations of people as it did in our day.
A franchise is handy for raising initial interest, but it can only get you so far. You only have to look at the franchises of Conan and Lord of the Rings in AoC and LotrO.
A franchise can appeal to the fans of that franchise, but of course that is only one market of potential players. After all, not everyone who loved the books and movies went ahead and started playing LotrO, only a portion of those.
Bioware has potentially a good start though: they have the good reputation as a game company on the level of a Blizzard, there are enough fans of Bioware games that might give SW:TOR a look for that, just as Blizzard and Warcraft fans gave WoW a try when it came out.
Then you have the Star Wars fans, and then you have the KOTOR fans. That's already 3 significant groups with an added interest into SW:TOR besides the other MMO gamers.
Besides that, you need to make the public aware of the game, we all have seen the many advertisements of Mr. T. and other ones from Blizzard that raised active recognition of WoW. The only ones that can do PR & advertisement on the playing field level of Activision Blizzard is the combintation of Lucas Arts, EA and Bioware.
After that, it all depends on how the game will be whether it retains people. As stated in another post, it seems Bioware have hit it right when it comes to accessibility in gameplay and polish, and besides that the amount of available content seems to be far above what's normal for a MMO, with 16+ Planets among which most are huge and vast, hundreds of hours of unique content per class and even more content around in World Quests, and besides that content all the other things ingame.
If that all will be enough is hard to tell for now, only after half a year or so it becomes visible whether they made a MMO that can keep the gamers playing.
But with what they have to offer as it is right now, they're off to a good, very successful start.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
People whine on this site about every game and wanna bring it down, look at every forum on this site its full of whiners and people who hate life or something,.. its disgusting if you ask me..
The game is not out yet complain after its out, then you have the right to if you even played it.. I noticed a good junk of people never play a game because of what others have said about it, then when they do play it they find out later they should pf never listen to that person....
Some advise try the game out for your self never listen to people on these forums .... when its negative most of the time they are wrong... I know this for a fact look at every game its full of negative posts.
Do you see the hypocrisy of this post?
I agree with you to an extent, the only opinion that matters is your own. If you want to play a game, do so.
But even if the game isn't out, people can have negative opinions based on what they DO know. For example...I don't care how good "RIFT" will be, it simply doesn't appeal to me. Could be GOTY for the next 10 years and I'll never play it.
I'll also argue your statement about not listening to people on these forums...if you come here to read up on a game, you obviously have some curiosity or interest in it. Good or bad, reading VALID posts on games DOES help. If I were ONLY concerned about Space Combat for SW:TOR, I may be inclined to wait and see what others think of it knowing that it's going to be a "tunnel" shooter.
And once again...just because people dislike a feature or don't like how something is/was done, doesn't mean they're "negative"...it's an OPINION (a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty). Don't let them bother you. Refute lies with facts. If you like a game, SELL it to those who are unsure. Here...your opinion is JUST as powerful.
Personally...I can't f'n wait for this game. I'm a lifelong SW fanatic who has played everything from Dark Forces and SWG to Jar Jars Journey (for my kids of course....kinda). It's not the timeline "I" want, but it is the correct universe...and for me, that's all I need to know.
Interesting use of the word "assume" when you were the only one doing so. You ASSUMED that because I mentioned fans taking realistic outlooks on the game that I must certainly mean ALL people who like the games are fans and ALL of the comments referred to as "negative" were actually reasonable.
Let me (snip)
Very perceptive, that you picked that up I indeed used the same tactics (among others) as you used in your post.
However, if you didn't see how fully onesided and limited in its bias your argumentation was in that first post of yours, then I can't help you, because - done on purpose or not - it's very obvious that it was.
Oh, I never said I wasn't a fan, btw. I only said I wasn't a fan as you see fans in the skewed, biased viewpoint that you have and that you reinforced by how you interpreted my statements.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Originally posted by keithianw I am very much looking forward to this game and continue to be cautiously optimistic. Each build they release shows improvement in the areas I was concerned about and they still have a lot of time. My first MMO was WOW followed by EQ2, Vanguard, Warhammer, LOTRO, Age of Conan, Aion, and Allods. I also just started beta testing Gods and Heroes (pretty world in my first 5 minutes :-). I never played SWG and quite frankly since I never heard of it until the trolling on these forums, I'm assuming it wasn't that successful in comparision to WOW and other smaller sub games such as LOTRO or EQ2 (I could be wrong).
Anyway, it seems to me that in my relatively short online gaming experience compared to some of you (I started in 2004 or so), that several games with very high hype and hope similar to what Guild Wars 2 has now barely lived up to their potential or expectations once the real reviews rolled in and the 3-4 month time frame had passed. I would say this about Vanguard, Aion, AOC (which has improved), and Warhammer (which I loved the first 2-3 months).
The Old Republic at least on these forums has more trolling then I can remember then the games I listed above so far before release (again, I could be wrong....Im just basing it on my general memory and feeling when I would pop in and out of the forums). It appears that Bioware has released very little information in comparision to their 150M budget. Keeping the hype lower and all of this trolling may actually help the game when they finally release a build that everyone can really dive into a really feel the world around them. I say keep trolling (including the site writers) because I think in the long run people here may be pleasantly surprised since the expectations and hype continue to be reset by the trolling itself. I actually think GW2 may suffer a similar fate because of the hype, though I'm hoping I'm wrong because I want to play that game in between this game when I just want to play something else that doesn't require a huge investment of time.
SWG never met commercial expectations, there were a lot of reasons, complete sandbox with no real plot, a lot of features missing from launch, a horrible client plagued by bugs, a hideous ui. That being said it was as close as you could get to playing in the SW universe with no boundaries.
No game ~EVER~ fares well here after launch. No matter how successful or anything else it's going to be ripped to shreds after launch... that being said you sure named some real stinkers.
If you think there's a lot of trolling here you should have hit the ffxiv boards before launch ;P
But my point is valid and stands. Star Wars does not have the clout that it once did. Nor does it capture the imaginations of people as it did in our day. I hope I am wrong I really do. I just dont think so. There are so many games out there to play and even another SW MMO. I know there are alot of SW fans out there but regardless of my social circle I think that applies both ways. Not as many outside of YOURS like or give a damn about SW anymore. Too many bad games and bad movies and 30 year old memories. My son and his friend were more excited to play an Avatar MMO over any SW game and ALOT of people agree. I know alot of people are excited right now but most are just longtime SW fans who have waited since the NGE for a new MMO for their beloved franchise to come out. We will see after the game has been out for a year if it can keep the players. Most MMO's dont. Most.
Agian not trying to troll I just dont see this being a big hit for too long. Star Wars Galaxies was bleeding subs BEFORE the NGE and people talk so highly about that game. Cant see an online co-op RPG from Bioware being able to hold a subscriber base longer than a year.
I not so sure I agree with you on SW's current clout... Cartoon Network is spending millions to run the Clone Wars series, now in it's 3rd season. Not only is it drawing in an entirely new generation of fans, it's also generated an entirely new set of merchandise to sell. Arguably the market Star Wars in now competing in is more saturated than ever, but I don't know if any name even gets close to rivaling it for the mass appeal...can you name one?!
SWG was bleeding subs for a slew of reasons...none of which (or few at best) were the subject (Star Wars) the game centered on.
I do share your concern on the longevity of SW:TOR though. As much as I want to plan on it being my only MMO for the next 10 years, I don't know that Bioware will deliver what "I" want to play that long. But no matter how long I play it for, I WILL play it and I am sold on it because it's Star Wars.
SWG vets are a big source of the negativity for this game... which, for me, says good things about the game. If SWG Vets had good things to say, that would point to the likelyhood of this game really sucking.
Being a SWG vet from beta till NGE, I'm very excited about TOR. I think it looks fantastic. Love the background and the theme, the graphics, classes, etc. Well the only thing I do not like so far is the smuggler's wookiee companion. It's background looks like it was written by a 7 year old with dyslexia. Other than that, I plan on buying a new computer just to play the game.
So I'm guessing we wont run into eachother in game.
Sadly the MMO games past 2004 has mostly looked and played the same. Innovation, Progression and trying to make something diffrent has totaly died since World of warcraft hit the market. Before evry game felt diffrent, from EVE to Linage2 to UO, SWG and Acherons Call and DAOC... if you lined them up next to one another they all felt like diffrent games the only thing they had in commen was the Massive MULTIPLAYER aspect. But at the core all these games played diffrently. They had diffrent endgames, diffrent lvl and progression process. They where as diffrent as any single player games. The developers had there own strategies for how the they looked at thier game, and how it should be played.
BUT after 2004 it has become a copy paste process. Developers no longer THINK, they have become mindless Unskilled robots whos only tallent is to Copy Paste ONE TYP of MMO.
ITS TANK AND SPANK...
And then they complain that people arnt interested in playing their games??
How many here want to watch the same movie OVER AND OVER again? How many here wants to Read THE SAME BOOK OVER AND OVER??
This is what is wrong with the Industry today...
line up WOW, Warhammer, LOTRO etc for example, and look at what is really the diffrence betwen them?
ANSWER: GRAFICS, that is the only real diffrence. Everything ells is the same, you can argue that they have diffrences, but its more like COMPARING two CARS to one another. A BMW might be better then A Ford but they are still both cars that roll on 4 wheels and are driven by an engine. They look diffrent and have seperate little gadgets inside but for all intended purposes they work exacly the same. One might go faster then the other or have a diffrent stero system, larger trunk or whatever but in the end they are CARS.
MMOs have become the same, no longer are they diffrent like flying a plan vs driving a car, or going by boat or using a bicycle, or using skies or a snowscooter. All these things get you do your destination but in radicly diffrent ways. That was how the old mmos worked, UO, linage2, EvE and Dark age of camelot... they all took you for a ride but the actual ride was totaly diffrent.
Unless Developers start thinking in the Terms LETS MAKE SOMETHING DIFFRENT, we will see FAIL AFTER FAIL AFTER FAIL.....
Yeah because WoW was the only good one, all those games you mentioned were shit until WoW came along and showed them how a good game played. I spent 2 years playing WoW. I wouldn't of considered playing any of those other games for that long, except maybe EVE. SWTOR will be the MMO's next big success story.
An ignorant optomistic comment for a change, who would of thought it,huh?
I think you missed the point of my post. It was not a WoW hate thing it was a statment that after that game Developers suddenly lost interest in Innovation, and instead started to copy cut paste, what had gone before.
Now WOW, like linage2, EvE, SWG, DOAC and ACHERONS CALL etc was diffrent then the other games around. Some Argue that EQ and EQ2 had many aspects of what WoW had at the time. BUT THE FACT IS THE SHEER AMOUNT OF QUEST PRESENTED IN WOW HAD NEVER BEEN SEEN IN AN MMO BEFOR. Also thier smart zone design, RAID system, and the FACT THAT THEY USED user friendly interface helped them set themselfs apart from the other games of the time. Linage2 was heavely into PvP and was a korean grinder, Doac also lacked alot of quests but Focused on thier 3 side realm pvp, EVE used thier own uniq system and SWG was a hardcore grindgame before Everyone become jedai patch.. all in all they all worked diffrently so did WORLD OF WARCRAFT ( It set itself a part from the others, it was way diffrent from conception to how it played with (wasd) keys, and not by mouse clicking like both EvE and Linage2 used for example. Many fail to understand just how innovating WoW actually was. A much faster combat system, not 4 basic classes that then became 6 classes and finaly became 8 classes like most Korean grinders where back then. And not like EVE or UO where you could train what you wanted. It had its own feel and set itself apart.
What is important though is what has come after.... And that iS to say NOTHING. Warhammer, LOTRO, Champions online, Aoc and bla bla bla bla blaaa have all been the same game. Playing warhammer it felt no diffrently then when i played Lotro or champions online, it all felt the same..... They have core classes, zones, raids etc etc etc etc etc.... and as long as developers keep designing the games after this "copy cut past method" they will continue to FAIL.. and that is what they have been doing for the past 6 years.
So what im saying is that I have played the same game since 2004, and so have all the rest of you, it dosent mather if its grafic looks like WOW, or it looks like Aoc or it sounds like Warhammer in the End we are playing the same mechanic with diffrent grafics. Just like if I was driving a Ford instead of a dodge....In the End the experince might differ a little but at its core its a CAR that gets you from destination A to destination B! and WHO the F... changes Cars all the time when the one you have works just fine??? THAT IS WHY NEW GAMES KEEP FAILING.... get it through your thick skulls you RETARDED developers..... People dont change thier CAR unless the old one is broken..... they might buy an AIRPLANE though... so start coming up with new things... the only thing that one MMO should have in common with another is the MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER PART!!!!
Many fail to understand just how innovating WoW actually was. It was not, it used gameplay that existed in other games like EQ and polished them up and made them more accessible and user friendly. It had its own feel and set itself apart. That's true, but a lot of MMO's have their own feel that set them apart.
Just like if I was driving a Ford instead of a dodge....In the End the experince might differ a little but at its core its a CAR that gets you from destination A to destination B! and WHO the F... changes Cars all the time when the one you have works just fine??? THAT IS WHY NEW GAMES KEEP FAILING.... get it through your thick skulls you RETARDED developers..... People dont change thier CAR unless the old one is broken.....
Analogies are so much fun, you can basically 'prove' any point you want to make with them
Let's stick with your analogy. I don't know where you're coming from, but I know lots and lots of people who don't stick with the same car until it has been used up, but they switch them every few years when they feel like they want another, newer car.
People change their furniture, redecorate their house, switch mobiles every few years or quicker when another shinier and trendier model appears on the market, not when their mobile has been fully worn out: if anything, the current consumption mentality shows that we like to change and have stuff when we want to, not when the old stuff has been used up.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
In Bioware we trust!
[quote]Originally posted by ShredderSE
[b][list]
[*]
[color=#ee82ee]The game world look like WoW.
[*]
[color=#ee82ee]Weapons are huge and ugly.
[*]
Animations are poor.
[*]
Characters look ugly and cartoonish.
[*]
Game seem to be made for kids at age +3.
[*]
Story mode in a MMORPG?
Everyone will be Jedis.
Jedi class will be OP.
Game will sell a lot the first month, then it will start to bleed and later die.
Only the hardcore SW fans will be playing.
Stuck with SW rules and can't change much. Other games can.
[/list]
Ofc the game will get negativity. [/color]
I for sure will not play it...[/color]
[/b][/quote]
The world can use less pink. Glad you're leaving.
Edit: Whoa...I didn't touch anything. Jesus even the forum software seems to hate you.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
Rubbish, So you want people to buy the game first and then complain if their is something to complain about? Where have you been for the lasg five years.
The days of gamers buying the game and paying for an ongoing beta are gone, we have been bit to many times for that. I am sure the bioware blindys would do that but Bioware already have your money no matter what. The rest of the mmorpg community who are not bioware blindys but just want a good mmorpg are not going to be fooled.
Lets see all these great features they keep spouting on about. The same dry line of " we have that but can't talk about it" has grown thin amongs mmorpg fans and gaming website.
The game's going to do fine, because EA, to protect its investment, is going to have an advertising blitz on this. They will spend some big bucks on promotions, probably with Lucas, etc on board. It will draw in a lot of new folks from the Star Wars crowd as well as the Bioware and MMOrpg types.
When you sink this much money into development, you throw some millions more in PR.
That doesn't stop some here from grinding their axes well before there are any real SW:TOR necks to cut.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Its because of jaded players like you this site is turned into a whining pit full of tears and snot. Way too many assumptions and speculations about a game which is not even in closed beta. It would make sense if you atleast play beta and complain about it. Gives a little more credibility to your complaints.
Also you keep talking about WE this and WE that, who are these WE? you and your neighbour? you are so sure that Bioware is going to fool you when they have not even released all of the game info? i have no idea why you hate Bioware but i always find it funny when people hate something they have no direct communication with.
Bioware doesn't owe you crap really.
Wrong analogy. It's more like reading a book in the epic fantasy genre, and then reading another in the epic fantasy genre, and another and another. After enough of those you might get enough of the abundance of similarities between books in that genre and want to try a book in another genre like scifi or urban fantasy, but they're still different books.
Reading the same book over and over again is more like raiding in WoW or other MMO's month after month, doing the same handful of dungeons over and over and over again.
That's the second thing what goes wrong in your hypothesis: if the majority of people preferred innovation and creativity, they would have given other MMO's that are different a far better and longer shot, games like Tabula Rasa, like Ryzom, Darkfall, Vanguard, Fallen Earth, Champions Online and Chronicles of Spellborn, instead of hanging around in WoW and WoW themepark-style MMO's doing the same things over and over again for years. This isn't what happened though, reality has proven you wrong.
People aren't that much interested in innovation, they find accessibiity, polish and an abundance of content far more important.
The latest example is FFXIV, FFXIV is doing a lot of things different from what is common in MMO's, and people hate it for it.
So innovation is clearly not the deciding factor, people might like some change and ninovation, but only if it falls within their comfort zone: accessibility, polish and lots of content is more important to the majority of them.
Like it or not, but SW:TOR falls exactly in that category, enough recognisability with the themepark MMO-style features, easy to get into (accessibiity), polish, a humongous amount of content, and enough differences to make it look and feel different.
This all gives it the right mainstream appeal, and Lucas Arts and EA Bioware have enough power and capital to add that other important factor in which WoW differred from other MMORPG's, namely raise public awareness into the collective consciousness of the masses of people via PR & advertisement.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
^ This. Couldn't agree more.
This site is full of negativity because those that aren't happy with their games are not playing them. They instead play the forums.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!
Actually quoting works fine for everyone but you. :P
Game will sell a lot the first month, then it will start to bleed and later die. Hard to tell until the game is out.
I feel ff14 may share this fate. Not TOR. TOR seems like a game that will be action packed and fun easy to get into game. Which will keep most of the players more than the first month sub. Than it all depends on the end game and how well they can mantaine players through that.
Usually the games that fail hard are the ones where you have a hard time getting into them. You see a huge population on launch day and then after a month or 2 most of the people are gone. Most of the people got bored and left after a few days of trying to level.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I think people that are in beta should complain about problems before they show up on launch day. People in FF14 complained during cb and ob and alot of the problems are still there. It is fine to complain, but at least have some knowledge of what it is you are complaining about.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
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I am sorry but your kid and his friend or your neighbour who is big star wars fan do not represent the entire population of SW fans. Its a big world out there and lots of people would be interested in it. We often look around our small social circle and think thats how things are for rest of the world. That is no reason to be worried about it.
the most criticized game on this site is WOW and while I don't play the game I would not say it is a bad game either. SWG was a very differnt monster all together a very flawed game but many peoples first mmo and as such their first love so opinions are going to be difficult to change.
Having said that a great many of the very vocal complainers will not like the game but if you let them tell it they didn't like WOW either.
From my experience I'm willing to say that TOR is going to be easily the second most populated mmo for a good amount of time too because Bioware creates very engaging content and that many people who are looking forward to this game will not be disappointed and the complaining will equally always exist.
Wait for it sometime within the next three years all you will here is "is this the TOR killer" and "if you don't like it you can head back to your space ship on rails in tor".
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
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Interesting use of the word "assume" when you were the only one doing so. You ASSUMED that because I mentioned fans taking realistic outlooks on the game that I must certainly mean ALL people who like the games are fans and ALL of the comments referred to as "negative" were actually reasonable.
Let me reanswer this question for you: Now why am I saying that your view is very black & white and a skewed view of reality?
Answer: Because you are one of those people that things every post is referring to you in some way and therefore you always have to "set the record straight" because you are so important and do not fit into the categories discussed. You are one of those people that love to carry the flag that reads "I don't fit neatly into any box and I love to point that out ever chance I get", guess what, no one does. Most of us just understand conversation enough to realize when someone says things about certain topics they are using invisible ALLs in an attempt to say everyone fits the picture they paint.
And clearly by your post (where you say you are not a fan) your tone and your "corrections" about the world of SW:tOR show that you are indeed a fan. But being a person who must rebel against labels of any kind, you refuse to put yourself into that category.
Learn to read a post and have a little fun/enjoy some of the humor in it instead of needing to jump on in simply to explain "I don't fit that scenario you painted, nope not me, I'm special, so ya you're wrong because I'm too amazing to fit into any label."
A franchise is handy for raising initial interest, but it can only get you so far. You only have to look at the franchises of Conan and Lord of the Rings in AoC and LotrO.
A franchise can appeal to the fans of that franchise, but of course that is only one market of potential players. After all, not everyone who loved the books and movies went ahead and started playing LotrO, only a portion of those.
Bioware has potentially a good start though: they have the good reputation as a game company on the level of a Blizzard, there are enough fans of Bioware games that might give SW:TOR a look for that, just as Blizzard and Warcraft fans gave WoW a try when it came out.
Then you have the Star Wars fans, and then you have the KOTOR fans. That's already 3 significant groups with an added interest into SW:TOR besides the other MMO gamers.
Besides that, you need to make the public aware of the game, we all have seen the many advertisements of Mr. T. and other ones from Blizzard that raised active recognition of WoW. The only ones that can do PR & advertisement on the playing field level of Activision Blizzard is the combintation of Lucas Arts, EA and Bioware.
After that, it all depends on how the game will be whether it retains people. As stated in another post, it seems Bioware have hit it right when it comes to accessibility in gameplay and polish, and besides that the amount of available content seems to be far above what's normal for a MMO, with 16+ Planets among which most are huge and vast, hundreds of hours of unique content per class and even more content around in World Quests, and besides that content all the other things ingame.
If that all will be enough is hard to tell for now, only after half a year or so it becomes visible whether they made a MMO that can keep the gamers playing.
But with what they have to offer as it is right now, they're off to a good, very successful start.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Do you see the hypocrisy of this post?
I agree with you to an extent, the only opinion that matters is your own. If you want to play a game, do so.
But even if the game isn't out, people can have negative opinions based on what they DO know. For example...I don't care how good "RIFT" will be, it simply doesn't appeal to me. Could be GOTY for the next 10 years and I'll never play it.
I'll also argue your statement about not listening to people on these forums...if you come here to read up on a game, you obviously have some curiosity or interest in it. Good or bad, reading VALID posts on games DOES help. If I were ONLY concerned about Space Combat for SW:TOR, I may be inclined to wait and see what others think of it knowing that it's going to be a "tunnel" shooter.
And once again...just because people dislike a feature or don't like how something is/was done, doesn't mean they're "negative"...it's an OPINION (a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty). Don't let them bother you. Refute lies with facts. If you like a game, SELL it to those who are unsure. Here...your opinion is JUST as powerful.
Personally...I can't f'n wait for this game. I'm a lifelong SW fanatic who has played everything from Dark Forces and SWG to Jar Jars Journey (for my kids of course....kinda). It's not the timeline "I" want, but it is the correct universe...and for me, that's all I need to know.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Very perceptive, that you picked that up
I indeed used the same tactics (among others) as you used in your post.
However, if you didn't see how fully onesided and limited in its bias your argumentation was in that first post of yours, then I can't help you, because - done on purpose or not - it's very obvious that it was.
Oh, I never said I wasn't a fan, btw. I only said I wasn't a fan as you see fans in the skewed, biased viewpoint that you have and that you reinforced by how you interpreted my statements.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
SWG never met commercial expectations, there were a lot of reasons, complete sandbox with no real plot, a lot of features missing from launch, a horrible client plagued by bugs, a hideous ui. That being said it was as close as you could get to playing in the SW universe with no boundaries.
No game ~EVER~ fares well here after launch. No matter how successful or anything else it's going to be ripped to shreds after launch... that being said you sure named some real stinkers.
If you think there's a lot of trolling here you should have hit the ffxiv boards before launch ;P
Shadus
I not so sure I agree with you on SW's current clout... Cartoon Network is spending millions to run the Clone Wars series, now in it's 3rd season. Not only is it drawing in an entirely new generation of fans, it's also generated an entirely new set of merchandise to sell. Arguably the market Star Wars in now competing in is more saturated than ever, but I don't know if any name even gets close to rivaling it for the mass appeal...can you name one?!
SWG was bleeding subs for a slew of reasons...none of which (or few at best) were the subject (Star Wars) the game centered on.
I do share your concern on the longevity of SW:TOR though. As much as I want to plan on it being my only MMO for the next 10 years, I don't know that Bioware will deliver what "I" want to play that long. But no matter how long I play it for, I WILL play it and I am sold on it because it's Star Wars.
Being a SWG vet from beta till NGE, I'm very excited about TOR. I think it looks fantastic. Love the background and the theme, the graphics, classes, etc. Well the only thing I do not like so far is the smuggler's wookiee companion. It's background looks like it was written by a 7 year old with dyslexia. Other than that, I plan on buying a new computer just to play the game.
So I'm guessing we wont run into eachother in game.
I think you missed the point of my post. It was not a WoW hate thing it was a statment that after that game Developers suddenly lost interest in Innovation, and instead started to copy cut paste, what had gone before.
Now WOW, like linage2, EvE, SWG, DOAC and ACHERONS CALL etc was diffrent then the other games around. Some Argue that EQ and EQ2 had many aspects of what WoW had at the time. BUT THE FACT IS THE SHEER AMOUNT OF QUEST PRESENTED IN WOW HAD NEVER BEEN SEEN IN AN MMO BEFOR. Also thier smart zone design, RAID system, and the FACT THAT THEY USED user friendly interface helped them set themselfs apart from the other games of the time. Linage2 was heavely into PvP and was a korean grinder, Doac also lacked alot of quests but Focused on thier 3 side realm pvp, EVE used thier own uniq system and SWG was a hardcore grindgame before Everyone become jedai patch.. all in all they all worked diffrently so did WORLD OF WARCRAFT ( It set itself a part from the others, it was way diffrent from conception to how it played with (wasd) keys, and not by mouse clicking like both EvE and Linage2 used for example. Many fail to understand just how innovating WoW actually was. A much faster combat system, not 4 basic classes that then became 6 classes and finaly became 8 classes like most Korean grinders where back then. And not like EVE or UO where you could train what you wanted. It had its own feel and set itself apart.
What is important though is what has come after.... And that iS to say NOTHING. Warhammer, LOTRO, Champions online, Aoc and bla bla bla bla blaaa have all been the same game. Playing warhammer it felt no diffrently then when i played Lotro or champions online, it all felt the same..... They have core classes, zones, raids etc etc etc etc etc.... and as long as developers keep designing the games after this "copy cut past method" they will continue to FAIL.. and that is what they have been doing for the past 6 years.
So what im saying is that I have played the same game since 2004, and so have all the rest of you, it dosent mather if its grafic looks like WOW, or it looks like Aoc or it sounds like Warhammer in the End we are playing the same mechanic with diffrent grafics. Just like if I was driving a Ford instead of a dodge....In the End the experince might differ a little but at its core its a CAR that gets you from destination A to destination B! and WHO the F... changes Cars all the time when the one you have works just fine??? THAT IS WHY NEW GAMES KEEP FAILING.... get it through your thick skulls you RETARDED developers..... People dont change thier CAR unless the old one is broken..... they might buy an AIRPLANE though... so start coming up with new things... the only thing that one MMO should have in common with another is the MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER PART!!!!
Analogies are so much fun, you can basically 'prove' any point you want to make with them
Let's stick with your analogy. I don't know where you're coming from, but I know lots and lots of people who don't stick with the same car until it has been used up, but they switch them every few years when they feel like they want another, newer car.
People change their furniture, redecorate their house, switch mobiles every few years or quicker when another shinier and trendier model appears on the market, not when their mobile has been fully worn out: if anything, the current consumption mentality shows that we like to change and have stuff when we want to, not when the old stuff has been used up.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다