As long as it's on it's own rule set server it is fine with me.
CCP have nailed their colours to the Single Server Model mast. It's pretty much their signature theme. I would be amazed if WoD has multiple servers at launch. The nearest I could see to that happening is maybe seperate servers for future Werewolf/Mage/etc WoD "expansions".
What you you will probably see is zome-gradiated rules of engagement, like the high-sec/lo-sec/0.0 in EVE. Ranging from Elysium (hi-sec) to some kind of hybrid (no permadeath, restricted PvP) to "the wilds" (full PvP). Permadeath might well be a consequence for "antisocial" behaviour.
We'll see.
I dont know if they can do one server for this. Eve more or less is just open space (heh pun). They took out exaust trails, and put in a whole bunch of disable options for effects even took out lighting reflection effects, plus these are just static ships (no animating limbs, clothing, or facial expressions), all because it slowed down people fps and rendering.
Imagine if you now have buildings with angles and shadows and ground and sky and PC's fully animated and NPC's fully animated, at the level CCP would like to render things. Ouch.
Would I like to play on one server where you reputation procedes you...oh hell yeah. Is it possible? I dont think so, yet. But if anyone could pull it off it would be CCP.
I think if they do it they should at least make huge population servers. I dont know 6k-10k per?
Then again, maybe cap it at 2k-3k and when they add Werewolf bump it another 2k-3k. And then do the same when they add Mage and Hunter.
But all that scenery stuff is a job for the client to render, not the server. The server just has to tell the client "here is an object of type TD7763 with dimensions thus and such, you know how to render this, get it done"
Wait, you are aware that when CCP say "single server", what they mean is "single shard", not a single machine, right? TQ is a server cluster. IIRC there are 18 blades each with 4x Dual-Core CPUs, making for a total of 144 nodes.
The real challenge is for CCP to make the zoning required to transition from one node to the next unobtrusive and not anti-immersive. In EVE, you switch nodes when you jump from one system to another. Going through a jump gate is an in-game discontinuity, so the fact that you're also going from one server node to the next doesn't "feel" anti-immersive. It's harder to imagine what they'll do to mask node switching in WoD. Quick cut scenes? That would be kind of cheesy.
Lots of people worried that it will be an Eve clone i see. Others think it will since thats "CCPs style". May i remind you that CCP have only released one game and the next on for release is a console mmofps? I dont think people will have to worry about CCPs pruposed limited range, they have said several times that there is no point in repeating already made games, always think new.
One of the things not suggested that I believe is a intragal part of making a successful WoD MMO is to make combat active and by active I mean action based. Players should be able to block, deflect, parry, maneuver, dodge, combine attacks in as close to real time as possible. Ranged attacks should be aimed! "Twitch" skill should be very important to how well a player does in combat.
I dont believe in the hardcore mindset of CCP. Games are games, not RL. So dying should be an inconvinience enough so you avoid it, not devestating as it can be in EVE.
As such I really dont believe in this game. It will be another game that can set you back hours after one death and the combat will probably be close to turn-based like it is in Eve. Boring for me.. and no I dont like WoW so I am not going back to it.
I dont believe in the hardcore mindset of CCP. Games are games, not RL. So dying should be an inconvinience enough so you avoid it, not devestating as it can be in EVE.
As such I really dont believe in this game. It will be another game that can set you back hours after one death and the combat will probably be close to turn-based like it is in Eve. Boring for me.. and no I dont like WoW so I am not going back to it.
"They who can give up liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Indeed.
Whilst you may not believe in the hardcore mindset, many do. There are plenty of games out there that cater to casuals, precious few cater to hardcore players, so I for one am pleased a forthcoming mmo may fit into that catagory. That games are games and not RL no one will deny, but I can't really see the point in you bringing that up, it's about people wanting greater risks and challenge in a game, nothing more.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
One thing is certain CCP will do what they want to do to in support of their ultimate vision of this game. If that's territorial vampire only alliance warfare with permadeath, offline skills and a heavy social/ political focus then that's what it's gonna be. Even if that's not what the fps kiddies want it won't matter.
I for one would welcome perma death or at least a perma death server.
Dependant upon the games overall mechanics ofc.
What I can see CCP doing, if they do go for some permadeath availability, is something akin to EVE's nulsec, as in there only being a select set of regions that have permadeath enabled, some other regions with non permadeath PvP & others with only PvE that way they can cater to all those that want the variations of playstyle and at a known amount of risk.
Servers i dont see them having servers, (for those thinking of a permadeath rules server) more likely they will be building a single "world" cluster in much the same way as EVE has, i mean they are the one company to have learnt the most about running that kind of set up, so it would seem wasteful to not utilise that knowledge and offer it to WoD fans.
I have a horrible feeling this game will be Second Life: Vampires.
That. It is hard to imagine what would sandbox consist of in more restrictive setting than EvE. I do not need quests but I want interesting game-play, which is just so-so in EvE. As for social aspect, RL:Permadeath has way more realistic hair.
My only problem with the game so far is that it continues to be labled the "World of Darkness" MMO when in actuality it is a Vampire: the Masquerade MMO. Certainly it is set in the WoD, but it is lacking many of the other "factions" that make up the world. Personally I was hoping for werewolves as playable characters far more than vampires. Either way I am still excited despite my mild disappointment.
Well i rather they start with VtM and do it good, then expand in to the rest of the world.
Not played an MMO for years now but had always kept an eye on this, gutted that its only Vampires to start with though .. werewolf' would have been my choice for sure.
Most of the other suggestions sound cool, Im not sure about permadeath though, i think the risk of loosing all the possessions you have on you (original EQ corpse decay style) is quite enough stress to deal with
The concerns about this being 'Second Life with fangs' seem unfounded to me, and must be coming from individuals familiar with neither Second Life nor Vampire; the former is not comparable to the latter, and CCP's comments have simply been true to the latter.
Both Vampire: The Masquerade and Vampire: The Requiem are social and political games, not combat games. Immortals are wont to be more avoidant of violence than mortals, you understand. Despite being intrinsically better at it, they have a good chance of living for millennia if they successfully avoid it.
Anyway, that is V:TM and V:TR, and all that has been said by CCP about this MMO since 2006 has only reinforced that it is the case here, as well. Well before CCP would say that it was Vampire, they were saying that it as a social and political game. If there's anything we can be sure of, it's that.
As for my own hopes and speculations, though:
Day/Night Cycle: I'm betting that there's none; that it is always night, as in Redemption and Bloodlines, and daylight is either the hour of morning server maintenance, or assumed to be any time you're not logged in. I'm hoping for the former, for consistency's sake—and because seeing light slowly spill over the horizon as the downtime approaches would be really slick.
Bloodlines: Unless they borrow V:TR's bloodline induction mechanic, I doubt that bloodlines will be creatable by players, if they feature at all.
Factions: I can only see this referring to sects, and it seems most likely to me that we'll start with only the Camarilla sect as playable, assuming no sort of 'monster play' version of the Sabbat.
Inconnu: Just as EVE GMs are known to play Jovians, I'd fully expect WoD GMs to play Inconnu.
Havens: Choosing and customizing your Haven is an obvious must, I think.
As for death, I'm usually a proponent of permanent death (yeah, one of those kooks), but if there's any non-futuristic setting that not dying makes sense in, it's this one. The Final Death is quite hard for a mortal to bring to a vampire, and the most heinous of crimes for another vampire. Most defeat in combat should lead to torpor.
I suppose it would be interesting for it to be possible, in some way, to die, since it should be so rare—I'm just saying that this, like EVE, is one of very few settings in which I wouldn't find it immersion-breaking to feel like a virtually unkillable demigod.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
It is nice to see designers taking this much input from players. Permadeath for example is a system that could work very will within this environment and not come with all the drawbacks and stigmas that people associate with it. I am looking forward to see how it all turns out.
Uh wrong people. Its NOT VtM. Its VtR. It's NEW WoD. Not Old WoD. Sorry but there wont be Sabbat or Cam. White Wolf is pushing its new setting, not the old one. I wish people would keep up with the times instead of thinking Masquerade is still going.
You can make it locational (IE fight pit sanctioned by City Prince) thereby controlling random acts of PvP.
Otherwise you have idiots who go over board and end up going around ruining other people just for fun.
Granted if they have a Prince in each city he would in theory already hear about the bad apples going around and stake them out in the sun, however it would already be too late for some peoples characters.
I believe PvP needs to actually be written into a game with consequences tied to the player as well as the character.
This eliminates the guy who makes up a character , does havoc and then logs on his main that goes about playing.
In WOD if you disobeyed a Prince by causing PVP esque havok you would at best be in a world of hurt and at worst be dust. It would be interesting to finally have a game integrate PVP in a meaningful, thoughtful and useful way.
In the WoD factions are built in you would have to remove them for them not to play a big part. Also As others have said this sounds like Vampire the Masquearade not WoD. Which is a good thing as we don’t want the MMO to bite of more than it can drink as it were.
In this game ‘Monster Play’ would be playing a human vampire hunter, not sure that would work.
They called the event the Grand Masquerade. But my bettng is also on Requiem as it is the version they want to sell in the shops.
Uh wrong people. Its NOT VtM. Its VtR. It's NEW WoD. Not Old WoD. Sorry but there wont be Sabbat or Cam. White Wolf is pushing its new setting, not the old one. I wish people would keep up with the times instead of thinking Masquerade is still going.
MMO is announced as based on Masquerade, but, in all likelyhood, it's going to be a mix of best elements from both.
In the WoD factions are built in you would have to remove them for them not to play a big part. Also As others have said this sounds like Vampire the Masquearade not WoD. Which is a good thing as we don’t want the MMO to bite of more than it can drink as it were.
In this game ‘Monster Play’ would be playing a human vampire hunter, not sure that would work.
They called the event the Grand Masquerade. But my bettng is also on Requiem as it is the version they want to sell in the shops.
With The Grand Masquerade piece, not sure if you were referring to the event or the MMO, but as far as the MMO is concerned it will be using Masquerade not Requiem as the source material. There was a post here and an article on massively about it.
They are trying to say it's Old WoD but I call bs. No way they would sell their old setting which is dead and gone. It's gonna be Requiem. I don't care what they said on the site that showed the trailer.
PvP could be interesting in Requiem because there IS no Cam vs Sabbat. It's more each city is its own little ecology. One "Prince" could be a total monster and the next could be a decent guy. There is no greater organization to bail your ass out either in Requiem. There are far more factions going on too. Way too many bloodlines IMO though. Like how like ALL the bloodlines get 4 powers and the main clans only get 3. It's like WHY be a main clan then?
In the WoD factions are built in you would have to remove them for them not to play a big part. Also As others have said this sounds like Vampire the Masquearade not WoD. Which is a good thing as we don’t want the MMO to bite of more than it can drink as it were.
In this game ‘Monster Play’ would be playing a human vampire hunter, not sure that would work.
They called the event the Grand Masquerade. But my bettng is also on Requiem as it is the version they want to sell in the shops.
With The Grand Masquerade piece, not sure if you were referring to the event or the MMO, but as far as the MMO is concerned it will be using Masquerade not Requiem as the source material. There was a post here and an article on massively about it.
I call bs on that. I don't believe that whatsoever. I am willing to bet the person is mistaken. Yeah sure they are gonna put the mmo in their old setting when Requiem is the one on the shelves. No way in hell.
Uh wrong people. Its NOT VtM. Its VtR. It's NEW WoD. Not Old WoD. Sorry but there wont be Sabbat or Cam. White Wolf is pushing its new setting, not the old one. I wish people would keep up with the times instead of thinking Masquerade is still going.
Well unless you can link me a source i am going on the info from Grand Masqurade and that info was VtM... Also with it's more clear cut sides and factions it is easier to manage as a MMO. VtR deals alot more in shades of grey and lacs the "faction" play in the way thet VtM has
Comments
But all that scenery stuff is a job for the client to render, not the server. The server just has to tell the client "here is an object of type TD7763 with dimensions thus and such, you know how to render this, get it done"
Wait, you are aware that when CCP say "single server", what they mean is "single shard", not a single machine, right? TQ is a server cluster. IIRC there are 18 blades each with 4x Dual-Core CPUs, making for a total of 144 nodes.
The real challenge is for CCP to make the zoning required to transition from one node to the next unobtrusive and not anti-immersive. In EVE, you switch nodes when you jump from one system to another. Going through a jump gate is an in-game discontinuity, so the fact that you're also going from one server node to the next doesn't "feel" anti-immersive. It's harder to imagine what they'll do to mask node switching in WoD. Quick cut scenes? That would be kind of cheesy.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Lots of people worried that it will be an Eve clone i see. Others think it will since thats "CCPs style". May i remind you that CCP have only released one game and the next on for release is a console mmofps? I dont think people will have to worry about CCPs pruposed limited range, they have said several times that there is no point in repeating already made games, always think new.
GG
No.
Its Vampire: The Masquerado MMO. No werewolfs, mages or hunters playable... screw this game. Very disappointed about that.
I've never played V:TM and the wiki's I read detailed the development of the games rather than gameplay so i have a few questions about the PnP game.
1. What factions are there?
2. Are Humans playable in the PnP?
3. Is V:TM basically DnD but with a Vampire theme?
Thanks for any pointers.
it's World of Darkness. they may start with vampires and mortals, but there will be A LOT added later. EVE didn't start as it is now, either.
Yes, the Red Cross/Crescent is a well known terrorist organisation, you make a good point there :eyeroll:
Give me liberty or give me lasers
one way for permadeath to work: free-to-play accounts
I dont believe in the hardcore mindset of CCP. Games are games, not RL. So dying should be an inconvinience enough so you avoid it, not devestating as it can be in EVE.
As such I really dont believe in this game. It will be another game that can set you back hours after one death and the combat will probably be close to turn-based like it is in Eve. Boring for me.. and no I dont like WoW so I am not going back to it.
My gaming blog
"They who can give up liberty to obtain temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Indeed.
Whilst you may not believe in the hardcore mindset, many do. There are plenty of games out there that cater to casuals, precious few cater to hardcore players, so I for one am pleased a forthcoming mmo may fit into that catagory. That games are games and not RL no one will deny, but I can't really see the point in you bringing that up, it's about people wanting greater risks and challenge in a game, nothing more.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
What I can see CCP doing, if they do go for some permadeath availability, is something akin to EVE's nulsec, as in there only being a select set of regions that have permadeath enabled, some other regions with non permadeath PvP & others with only PvE that way they can cater to all those that want the variations of playstyle and at a known amount of risk.
Servers i dont see them having servers, (for those thinking of a permadeath rules server) more likely they will be building a single "world" cluster in much the same way as EVE has, i mean they are the one company to have learnt the most about running that kind of set up, so it would seem wasteful to not utilise that knowledge and offer it to WoD fans.
That. It is hard to imagine what would sandbox consist of in more restrictive setting than EvE. I do not need quests but I want interesting game-play, which is just so-so in EvE. As for social aspect, RL:Permadeath has way more realistic hair.
Well i rather they start with VtM and do it good, then expand in to the rest of the world.
This have been a good conversation
Not played an MMO for years now but had always kept an eye on this, gutted that its only Vampires to start with though
.. werewolf' would have been my choice for sure.
Most of the other suggestions sound cool, Im not sure about permadeath though, i think the risk of loosing all the possessions you have on you (original EQ corpse decay style) is quite enough stress to deal with
The concerns about this being 'Second Life with fangs' seem unfounded to me, and must be coming from individuals familiar with neither Second Life nor Vampire; the former is not comparable to the latter, and CCP's comments have simply been true to the latter.
Both Vampire: The Masquerade and Vampire: The Requiem are social and political games, not combat games. Immortals are wont to be more avoidant of violence than mortals, you understand. Despite being intrinsically better at it, they have a good chance of living for millennia if they successfully avoid it.
Anyway, that is V:TM and V:TR, and all that has been said by CCP about this MMO since 2006 has only reinforced that it is the case here, as well. Well before CCP would say that it was Vampire, they were saying that it as a social and political game. If there's anything we can be sure of, it's that.
As for my own hopes and speculations, though:
Day/Night Cycle: I'm betting that there's none; that it is always night, as in Redemption and Bloodlines, and daylight is either the hour of morning server maintenance, or assumed to be any time you're not logged in. I'm hoping for the former, for consistency's sake—and because seeing light slowly spill over the horizon as the downtime approaches would be really slick.
Bloodlines: Unless they borrow V:TR's bloodline induction mechanic, I doubt that bloodlines will be creatable by players, if they feature at all.
Factions: I can only see this referring to sects, and it seems most likely to me that we'll start with only the Camarilla sect as playable, assuming no sort of 'monster play' version of the Sabbat.
Inconnu: Just as EVE GMs are known to play Jovians, I'd fully expect WoD GMs to play Inconnu.
Havens: Choosing and customizing your Haven is an obvious must, I think.
As for death, I'm usually a proponent of permanent death (yeah, one of those kooks), but if there's any non-futuristic setting that not dying makes sense in, it's this one. The Final Death is quite hard for a mortal to bring to a vampire, and the most heinous of crimes for another vampire. Most defeat in combat should lead to torpor.
I suppose it would be interesting for it to be possible, in some way, to die, since it should be so rare—I'm just saying that this, like EVE, is one of very few settings in which I wouldn't find it immersion-breaking to feel like a virtually unkillable demigod.
It is nice to see designers taking this much input from players. Permadeath for example is a system that could work very will within this environment and not come with all the drawbacks and stigmas that people associate with it. I am looking forward to see how it all turns out.
Uh wrong people. Its NOT VtM. Its VtR. It's NEW WoD. Not Old WoD. Sorry but there wont be Sabbat or Cam. White Wolf is pushing its new setting, not the old one. I wish people would keep up with the times instead of thinking Masquerade is still going.
PVP would be difficult.
You can make it locational (IE fight pit sanctioned by City Prince) thereby controlling random acts of PvP.
Otherwise you have idiots who go over board and end up going around ruining other people just for fun.
Granted if they have a Prince in each city he would in theory already hear about the bad apples going around and stake them out in the sun, however it would already be too late for some peoples characters.
I believe PvP needs to actually be written into a game with consequences tied to the player as well as the character.
This eliminates the guy who makes up a character , does havoc and then logs on his main that goes about playing.
In WOD if you disobeyed a Prince by causing PVP esque havok you would at best be in a world of hurt and at worst be dust. It would be interesting to finally have a game integrate PVP in a meaningful, thoughtful and useful way.
Permadeath – no.
Not a WoW clone – Yes
Factional Control of Regions or Assets – Yes.
In the WoD factions are built in you would have to remove them for them not to play a big part. Also As others have said this sounds like Vampire the Masquearade not WoD. Which is a good thing as we don’t want the MMO to bite of more than it can drink as it were.
In this game ‘Monster Play’ would be playing a human vampire hunter, not sure that would work.
They called the event the Grand Masquerade. But my bettng is also on Requiem as it is the version they want to sell in the shops.
MMO is announced as based on Masquerade, but, in all likelyhood, it's going to be a mix of best elements from both.
With The Grand Masquerade piece, not sure if you were referring to the event or the MMO, but as far as the MMO is concerned it will be using Masquerade not Requiem as the source material. There was a post here and an article on massively about it.
Steam: Neph
They are trying to say it's Old WoD but I call bs. No way they would sell their old setting which is dead and gone. It's gonna be Requiem. I don't care what they said on the site that showed the trailer.
PvP could be interesting in Requiem because there IS no Cam vs Sabbat. It's more each city is its own little ecology. One "Prince" could be a total monster and the next could be a decent guy. There is no greater organization to bail your ass out either in Requiem. There are far more factions going on too. Way too many bloodlines IMO though. Like how like ALL the bloodlines get 4 powers and the main clans only get 3. It's like WHY be a main clan then?
I call bs on that. I don't believe that whatsoever. I am willing to bet the person is mistaken. Yeah sure they are gonna put the mmo in their old setting when Requiem is the one on the shelves. No way in hell.
Well unless you can link me a source i am going on the info from Grand Masqurade and that info was VtM... Also with it's more clear cut sides and factions it is easier to manage as a MMO. VtR deals alot more in shades of grey and lacs the "faction" play in the way thet VtM has
This have been a good conversation