Its just WoW (with even crappier gfx) with lightsabres and complete voiceover (for the start), so nothing really new here. I don't care if it does well or not but for sure even if its the new king it wouldn't change anything.
This game will decide about Biowares future after being bought up, if it doesn't meet the unreal expectations heads will roll, just look on Mythic
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
You either mean "No it wont be" or you have successfully created a time machine and have come back to answer in past tense. oh and I wasnt refering to the movie but to all the speculation and conjecture that gave rise to it.
It'll be definately not be a new breed of MMO, but just another themepark based on a good IP. Once you've leveled up your second or third toon the whole story-telling it has going isn't appealing anymore and it's all down to grinding the endgame-content like in WoW.
I think it's pretty clear that a game in which there is absolutely no deviation beyond the standard WoW/EQ model will change nothing.
I don't like wishing failure upon people but in this instance I actually do hope that TOR fails miserably. TOR's success will mean another decade of shitty WoW clones; I'd give up on MMOs permanently if that were to happen.
I think it's pretty clear that a game in which there is absolutely no deviation beyond the standard WoW/EQ model will change nothing.
I don't like wishing failure upon people but in this instance I actually do hope that TOR fails miserably. TOR's success will mean another decade of shitty WoW clones; I'd give up on MMOs permanently if that were to happen.
The standard WoW model includes 200 hours of personal story for EACH CLASS?!?! I must have missed that.
You m ay not like the deviation they've taken, but it's completely ignorant to come out and try to claim that they've taken none.
I used to be so pumped about ToR. But, the more I read, the more I become turned off. A solo play MMO doesn't make sense to me at all. But will I try it?...yes. Bioware alone is worth giving it a shot.
I don't expect too many things not seen atleast in Bioware games done in TOR so it depends on perspective whether it will change games much. What I do hope is that more devs follow in the footsteps of Bioware and introduce more in depth story telling into mmorpg's (yes I said it I like for them to also present me with a story too not just write my own). I hope that Bioware can basically take the LOTRO epic quest line and basically blow it out like a thousand times and if I'm lucky they will be successful and other devs will follow suit.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I think it's pretty clear that a game in which there is absolutely no deviation beyond the standard WoW/EQ model will change nothing.
I don't like wishing failure upon people but in this instance I actually do hope that TOR fails miserably. TOR's success will mean another decade of shitty WoW clones; I'd give up on MMOs permanently if that were to happen.
TOR can't possibly fail, it's got:
BW making it
It's Star Wars
EA and LucasArt supporting it
Huge budget and skilled developers and managers
TOR uses many of the things from the WoW model, most of the things they use are the ones that have proved to be working well, for some things it's not worth reinventing the wheel. Many other features are not in WoW and can be considered innovations, by them selves or by the extent it's done, like for instance:
Single player level of FUN from start to end,
Everything is voiced which gives superb immersion
Choreographed combat (you're not just standing there hitting air)
Choices that matter (permanent dark side, light side points)
Companions that are living breathing NPCs, not pets
Many types of quest, like Class, World Arch, Flashpoint
That's the one that I can think of right now, I'm sure there are more, especially the things we know little about.
I think it's pretty clear that a game in which there is absolutely no deviation beyond the standard WoW/EQ model will change nothing.
I don't like wishing failure upon people but in this instance I actually do hope that TOR fails miserably. TOR's success will mean another decade of shitty WoW clones; I'd give up on MMOs permanently if that were to happen.
With the amount of content that is supposed to be in TOR, BW/EA/LA are going to make a ton of money back just on box sales alone. 200 hrs of personal story gameplay, combined with faction/planet quests is a nice value for the box price plus sub.
If they put out a good MMO, then the sky is the limit.
If TOR doing good means you intend to leave MMOs, I would suggest you have your bags packed on launch day. The only way you arent leaving the MMO genre is if BW fails to deliver the amount of content they claim, and in a polished state.
If they do live up to it, and sell over 5M boxes(and any subs that hang around), you can bet this will indeed be the model for yrs to come.
Between box sales and subs, I think a MMO dev should deliver plenty of polished content.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You know, I WANT to believe it, OP. Really. I mean, it's Star Wars, it's Bioware... anything is possible. But atm, the details are a bit wishywashy. I have great difficulty to imagine the fun of being always in a story. Might be fun, might be tedium. I can't say. Maybe a tad more open and less story railroading would have been good.
I can't share the view however SWTOR is WOW in space. So far SWTOR seems to lack what Wow has: just doing some stuff without big stories attached to. Vast open world to roam.
But again, I am having a great difficulty to really imagine how TOR is really going to be. And with GW2 they have a great competitor for the "next WOW" throne. My fun however isn't linked to the number of player a MMO has. I am sure SWTOR will be a blast. I only wonder how long. You play your 2-3 stories and then what? I hope Bioware has an answer to that.
You know, I WANT to believe it, OP. Really. I mean, it's Star Wars, it's Bioware... anything is possible. But atm, the details are a bit wishywashy. I have great difficulty to imagine the fun of being always in a story. Might be fun, might be tedium. I can't say. Maybe a tad more open and less story railroading would have been good.
I can't share the view however SWTOR is WOW in space. So far SWTOR seems to lack what Wow has: just doing some stuff without big stories attached to. Vast open world to roam.
But again, I am having a great difficulty to really imagine how TOR is really going to be. And with GW2 they have a great competitor for the "next WOW" throne. My fun however isn't linked to the number of player a MMO has. I am sure SWTOR will be a blast. I only wonder how long. You play your 2-3 stories and then what? I hope Bioware has an answer to that.
Tsk, Yunbei,despite the amount that you've hung around the SW:TOR forums, I'm really starting to wonder whether you've really read the information available regarding SW:TOR. I mean, you should know better.
'What after the story ended'? 'Story railroading'?? 'Not a vast open world to roam'?
All those questions have been elaborated upon and answered again and again. And again. Looks like you're aware the information is out there, you just chose not to believe it.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
... includes 200 hours of personal story for EACH CLASS?!?! I must have missed that.
You m ay not like the deviation they've taken, but it's completely ignorant to come out and try to claim that they've taken none.
And how many hours is that watching the cinematics and listening to the speeches of the NPC's ?
Because that's what they brag about: the hundreds of hours of recorded voices...
Anyone else skipped the Age of Conan speeches of the NPC's?
I know I did: "esc" after the fifth quest or so: just give me the damned "kill 10 X" quest instead of listening to the "... Greeting dear Sir, let me tell you a (little) story...."
Read the text 10 times faster than the puppet could speak.
Because that's what they brag about: the hundreds of hours of recorded voices...
Anyone else skipped the Age of Conan speeches of the NPC's?
The quote you're referring to is the 'hundreds of hours' of unique story and gameplay per class in SW:TOR.
Regarding GW2 they were talking about the length of 60 movies in recorded voices and sounds and such that they have in GW2.
And I didn't skip the AoC speeches, in fact I liked it above the often meaningless and tedious quest text in other MMORPG's. In fact, the fact that so many people complained how great Tortage felt and how empty the questing felt post-Tortage compared to Tortage, is telling enough that lots of MMO gamers actually like that kind of gaming experience.
If they didn't they wouldn't have found the questing post-Tortage anything to complain about, since there were enough common quests to be found.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's not a bad thing, it's the expected thing, and in this case it's a solid game structure: it provides players with an easy way to get into the game, a healthy dose of freedom, the ability to backtrack, the option to swap to a new area and still proceed down the main quest if things get tricky or you want to level, and plenty of time to focus on characters and subplots. It's great. It's also really, really predictable.
What you're referring to is the common themepark-style of questing as also seen in MMO's like WoW, LotrO, AoC and Aion, you being guided from one area to another via quests.
SW:TOR only adds another presentation, and deepened storytelling to it.
So if you dislike predictability, then you must dislike it apparently the predictability as seen in themepark MMO's like LotrO or these others as well.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I personally like the idea, i do usually skip through alot of these, but then again they are text based only and rather blah. If BW is able to make these a little more interesting then sure. We will be more compeled to stop and watch. I guess time will tell
SWTOR will do well and gather around it a large enough fanbase to continue for the long-term. It will not, however, dethrone WoW or turn the MMO industry on its ear. There's nothing groundbreaking in its design and nothing that makes me personally go "oooh" and "aaah". What it will have though, will be working smoothly out of the gate and be effective enough to keep people entertained for long stretches. If it changes anything, it will be to up that standard for smooth releases since I think BW is just not the type of company to release anything that's half-assed (no FFXIV repeat). Gameplay-wise, it's not going to knock a lot of socks off.
While I do not think TOR will change the overall genre into something else. I am not quite sure I agree with everyone who is saying TOR is doing nothing new. While there has been an MMO with spoken NPC dialogue (AOC), within that MMO, those aspects died off early on in the experience and it became the standard MMO-fair after. Which brought a lot of complaints in regard to this very fact.
MMO's have always been fairly shallow in terms of the leveling/skilling treadmill, we've always been forced to follow in them.
This is what Bioware is offering new in their product. An experience in leveling that doesn't feel like a set of chores. If it actually plays like a Bioware game, the experience leveling a character will be much different than the standards set by almost all previous MMO's. That is what i'm looking forward to in this product, if it actually has the standard MMO activities after the fact, that will simply be an added bonus for me.
If you've played an MMO like this before, please point me in it's direction, because I surely haven't found it yet.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
While I do not think TOR will change the overall genre into something else. I am not quite sure I agree with everyone who is saying TOR is doing nothing new. While there has been an MMO with spoken NPC dialogue (AOC), within that MMO, those aspects died off early on in the experience and it became the standard MMO-fair after. Which brought a lot of complaints in regard to this very fact.
MMO's have always been fairly shallow in terms of the leveling/skilling treadmill, we've always been forced to follow in them.
This is what Bioware is offering new in their product. An experience in leveling that doesn't feel like a set of chores. If it actually plays like a Bioware game, the experience leveling a character will be much different than the standards set by almost all previous MMO's. That is what i'm looking forward to in this product, if it actually has the standard MMO activities after the fact, that will simply be an added bonus for me.
If you've played an MMO like this before, please point me in it's direction, because I surely haven't found it yet.
Also, in AOC your decisions didn't make any difference , because they all lead to the same line. So, if you tell the npc one thing it wouldn't effect your next mission or quest in any way.
... includes 200 hours of personal story for EACH CLASS?!?! I must have missed that.
You m ay not like the deviation they've taken, but it's completely ignorant to come out and try to claim that they've taken none.
And how many hours is that watching the cinematics and listening to the speeches of the NPC's ?
Because that's what they brag about: the hundreds of hours of recorded voices...
Anyone else skipped the Age of Conan speeches of the NPC's?
I know I did: "esc" after the fifth quest or so: just give me the damned "kill 10 X" quest instead of listening to the "... Greeting dear Sir, let me tell you a (little) story...."
Read the text 10 times faster than the puppet could speak.
It that's game play, ...
^--- This.
I played AoC. The speaking was fun but it was a timesink. Pointless timesink in a MMO. And it fot old really fast.
As far as i see now this game has nothing new to give to the MMO genre. It'll be another cookie cutter MMO with a focus on the story aspect. Sure the multiplayer dialogue is nice but i'm didn't see it yet in action... And i expect it can be annoying when groupig with a$$holes and leet kiddies that will surely be sucked in to this mmo.
What really anoys me is that they seem to aproach MMOs with th singleplayer game mindset. This surely does not ode well atleast IMHO.
But we'll see. There surely is nothing revolutionary about this game. But that might be the key to its success.
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
Comments
Its just WoW (with even crappier gfx) with lightsabres and complete voiceover (for the start), so nothing really new here. I don't care if it does well or not but for sure even if its the new king it wouldn't change anything.
This game will decide about Biowares future after being bought up, if it doesn't meet the unreal expectations heads will roll, just look on Mythic
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
You either mean "No it wont be" or you have successfully created a time machine and have come back to answer in past tense.
oh and I wasnt refering to the movie but to all the speculation and conjecture that gave rise to it.
It'll be definately not be a new breed of MMO, but just another themepark based on a good IP.
Once you've leveled up your second or third toon the whole story-telling it has going isn't appealing anymore and it's all down to grinding the endgame-content like in WoW.
I think it's pretty clear that a game in which there is absolutely no deviation beyond the standard WoW/EQ model will change nothing.
I don't like wishing failure upon people but in this instance I actually do hope that TOR fails miserably. TOR's success will mean another decade of shitty WoW clones; I'd give up on MMOs permanently if that were to happen.
The standard WoW model includes 200 hours of personal story for EACH CLASS?!?! I must have missed that.
You m ay not like the deviation they've taken, but it's completely ignorant to come out and try to claim that they've taken none.
I used to be so pumped about ToR. But, the more I read, the more I become turned off. A solo play MMO doesn't make sense to me at all. But will I try it?...yes. Bioware alone is worth giving it a shot.
I don't expect too many things not seen atleast in Bioware games done in TOR so it depends on perspective whether it will change games much. What I do hope is that more devs follow in the footsteps of Bioware and introduce more in depth story telling into mmorpg's (yes I said it I like for them to also present me with a story too not just write my own). I hope that Bioware can basically take the LOTRO epic quest line and basically blow it out like a thousand times and if I'm lucky they will be successful and other devs will follow suit.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
TOR can't possibly fail, it's got:
BW making it
It's Star Wars
EA and LucasArt supporting it
Huge budget and skilled developers and managers
TOR uses many of the things from the WoW model, most of the things they use are the ones that have proved to be working well, for some things it's not worth reinventing the wheel. Many other features are not in WoW and can be considered innovations, by them selves or by the extent it's done, like for instance:
Single player level of FUN from start to end,
Everything is voiced which gives superb immersion
Choreographed combat (you're not just standing there hitting air)
Choices that matter (permanent dark side, light side points)
Companions that are living breathing NPCs, not pets
Many types of quest, like Class, World Arch, Flashpoint
That's the one that I can think of right now, I'm sure there are more, especially the things we know little about.
With the amount of content that is supposed to be in TOR, BW/EA/LA are going to make a ton of money back just on box sales alone. 200 hrs of personal story gameplay, combined with faction/planet quests is a nice value for the box price plus sub.
If they put out a good MMO, then the sky is the limit.
If TOR doing good means you intend to leave MMOs, I would suggest you have your bags packed on launch day. The only way you arent leaving the MMO genre is if BW fails to deliver the amount of content they claim, and in a polished state.
If they do live up to it, and sell over 5M boxes(and any subs that hang around), you can bet this will indeed be the model for yrs to come.
Between box sales and subs, I think a MMO dev should deliver plenty of polished content.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You know, I WANT to believe it, OP. Really. I mean, it's Star Wars, it's Bioware... anything is possible. But atm, the details are a bit wishywashy. I have great difficulty to imagine the fun of being always in a story. Might be fun, might be tedium. I can't say. Maybe a tad more open and less story railroading would have been good.
I can't share the view however SWTOR is WOW in space. So far SWTOR seems to lack what Wow has: just doing some stuff without big stories attached to. Vast open world to roam.
But again, I am having a great difficulty to really imagine how TOR is really going to be. And with GW2 they have a great competitor for the "next WOW" throne. My fun however isn't linked to the number of player a MMO has. I am sure SWTOR will be a blast. I only wonder how long. You play your 2-3 stories and then what? I hope Bioware has an answer to that.
They got 150 Mio $ cash for development.
How many MMOs will be created with such an insane initial money supply ?
Tsk, Yunbei,despite the amount that you've hung around the SW:TOR forums, I'm really starting to wonder whether you've really read the information available regarding SW:TOR. I mean, you should know better.
'What after the story ended'? 'Story railroading'?? 'Not a vast open world to roam'?
All those questions have been elaborated upon and answered again and again. And again. Looks like you're aware the information is out there, you just chose not to believe it.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
And how many hours is that watching the cinematics and listening to the speeches of the NPC's ?
Because that's what they brag about: the hundreds of hours of recorded voices...
Anyone else skipped the Age of Conan speeches of the NPC's?
I know I did: "esc" after the fifth quest or so: just give me the damned "kill 10 X" quest instead of listening to the "... Greeting dear Sir, let me tell you a (little) story...."
Read the text 10 times faster than the puppet could speak.
It that's game play, ...
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"will SWTOR change mmo's? "
Nope
And GW2 won't be the MMO of the decade
And FFXIV won't be all the hype says it will, oh wait did people already figure that one out?
This forum just gets exicted over the concept of a new MMO, doesn't mean a thing.
The quote you're referring to is the 'hundreds of hours' of unique story and gameplay per class in SW:TOR.
Regarding GW2 they were talking about the length of 60 movies in recorded voices and sounds and such that they have in GW2.
And I didn't skip the AoC speeches, in fact I liked it above the often meaningless and tedious quest text in other MMORPG's. In fact, the fact that so many people complained how great Tortage felt and how empty the questing felt post-Tortage compared to Tortage, is telling enough that lots of MMO gamers actually like that kind of gaming experience.
If they didn't they wouldn't have found the questing post-Tortage anything to complain about, since there were enough common quests to be found.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
What you're referring to is the common themepark-style of questing as also seen in MMO's like WoW, LotrO, AoC and Aion, you being guided from one area to another via quests.
SW:TOR only adds another presentation, and deepened storytelling to it.
So if you dislike predictability, then you must dislike it apparently the predictability as seen in themepark MMO's like LotrO or these others as well.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
We wont really know until we get to try it out.
I personally like the idea, i do usually skip through alot of these, but then again they are text based only and rather blah. If BW is able to make these a little more interesting then sure. We will be more compeled to stop and watch. I guess time will tell
SWTOR will do well and gather around it a large enough fanbase to continue for the long-term. It will not, however, dethrone WoW or turn the MMO industry on its ear. There's nothing groundbreaking in its design and nothing that makes me personally go "oooh" and "aaah". What it will have though, will be working smoothly out of the gate and be effective enough to keep people entertained for long stretches. If it changes anything, it will be to up that standard for smooth releases since I think BW is just not the type of company to release anything that's half-assed (no FFXIV repeat). Gameplay-wise, it's not going to knock a lot of socks off.
While I do not think TOR will change the overall genre into something else. I am not quite sure I agree with everyone who is saying TOR is doing nothing new. While there has been an MMO with spoken NPC dialogue (AOC), within that MMO, those aspects died off early on in the experience and it became the standard MMO-fair after. Which brought a lot of complaints in regard to this very fact.
MMO's have always been fairly shallow in terms of the leveling/skilling treadmill, we've always been forced to follow in them.
This is what Bioware is offering new in their product. An experience in leveling that doesn't feel like a set of chores. If it actually plays like a Bioware game, the experience leveling a character will be much different than the standards set by almost all previous MMO's. That is what i'm looking forward to in this product, if it actually has the standard MMO activities after the fact, that will simply be an added bonus for me.
If you've played an MMO like this before, please point me in it's direction, because I surely haven't found it yet.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
this
Also, in AOC your decisions didn't make any difference , because they all lead to the same line. So, if you tell the npc one thing it wouldn't effect your next mission or quest in any way.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Not really.
Wow already got gamers playing mmos.
Second life already got craigslist weirdos playing mmos.
Farmville already got people who dont even like video games playing mmos.
Unless SWTOR somehow appeals to my moms, i cant see it changing the world. It might kill a few servers on older games but thats about it.
^--- This.
I played AoC. The speaking was fun but it was a timesink. Pointless timesink in a MMO. And it fot old really fast.
As far as i see now this game has nothing new to give to the MMO genre. It'll be another cookie cutter MMO with a focus on the story aspect. Sure the multiplayer dialogue is nice but i'm didn't see it yet in action... And i expect it can be annoying when groupig with a$$holes and leet kiddies that will surely be sucked in to this mmo.
What really anoys me is that they seem to aproach MMOs with th singleplayer game mindset. This surely does not ode well atleast IMHO.
But we'll see. There surely is nothing revolutionary about this game. But that might be the key to its success.
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
RIP George Carlin.