Originally posted by mklinic EVE Online - trying to get customers in 2010 Star Trek Online - trying to get customers in 2010
STO, at least on some level, is competing with EvE for the sci-fi/space market that exists today so it is only fair to compare them as they both stand today.
Farmville - trying to get customers in 2010 EVE Online - trying to get customers in 2010
EVE Online, at least on same level, is competing with Farmville for online entertainment market that exists today so it is only fair to compare them as they both stand today.
Sounds pretty stupid when the very same thing is said in different perspective, doesn't it?
Star Trek Online - trying to get customers in 2010
STO, at least on some level, is competing with EvE for the sci-fi/space market that exists today so it is only fair to compare them as they both stand today.
Farmville - trying to get customers in 2010
EVE Online - trying to get customers in 2010
EVE Online, at least on same level, is competing with Farmville for online entertainment market that exists today so it is only fair to compare them as they both stand today.
Sounds pretty stupid when the very same thing is said in different perspective, doesn't it?
Not at all. If you felt like writing an article comparing Farmville and EvE on those grounds, then, aside from applauding your creativity, I would be left either agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion, but the grounds you are comparing them on would be justified.
If you said EvE's combat is superior to Farmville's (if FV had combat), I could argue that.
If you said Farmville's territory management was superior to EvE I could argue that.
If you said EvE year one should be compared to Farmville year one, you'd be wrong since they would be competing in today's market.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Star Trek Online - trying to get customers in 2010
STO, at least on some level, is competing with EvE for the sci-fi/space market that exists today so it is only fair to compare them as they both stand today.
Farmville - trying to get customers in 2010
EVE Online - trying to get customers in 2010
EVE Online, at least on same level, is competing with Farmville for online entertainment market that exists today so it is only fair to compare them as they both stand today.
Sounds pretty stupid when the very same thing is said in different perspective, doesn't it?
Not at all. If you felt like writing an article comparing Farmville and EvE on those grounds, then, aside from applauding your creativity, I would be left either agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion, but the grounds you are comparing them on would be justified.
If you said EvE's combat is superior to Farmville's (if FV had combat), I could argue that.
If you said Farmville's territory management was superior to EvE I could argue that.
If you said EvE year one should be compared to Farmville year one, you'd be wrong since they would be competing in today's market.
It's like making an article comparing WoW and FFXIV.
WoW would curbstomp FFXIV in the article and FFXIV fans would be upset and the article would be boring and one-sided.
Edit: In 6 years though, FFXIV might be a more well rounded game and able to hold up an argument.
Originally posted by mklinic Not at all. If you felt like writing an article comparing Farmville and EvE on those grounds, then, aside from applauding your creativity, I would be left either agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion, but the grounds you are comparing them on would be justified.
You are right that you can agree or disagree with something but that is not justifying a subject nor validates the reasoning...
Not at all. If you felt like writing an article comparing Farmville and EvE on those grounds, then, aside from applauding your creativity, I would be left either agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion, but the grounds you are comparing them on would be justified.
You are right that you can agree or disagree with something but that is not justifying a subject nor validates the reasoning...
I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at with this. If you were comparing two products in the online gaming market, then your example of Farmville vs. EvE is suitable even if meant to be an exaggeration. Disagreeing/Agreeing with your conclusions regarding features makes sense since those features are generally the selling points of the game. Now, comparing 2004 EvE (for example) to 2010 Farmville does not make sense as no one is shopping for 2004 EvE.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
honestly, Eve is the new Ultima Online if you think about it.... free to do whatever you want whenever you want... but in space, its gonna stay here for a long... LONG time in the spotlight
only thing that could even take down Eve is if someone decided to create a Eve clone but changed the skins and IP to something that some fans wanted for example, STO if gone Eve styled would be a decent contender, even FireFly or even Battlestar Galatica.... fuck even Babylon 5 and Farscape could be contenders..
but meh, rightnow like i said Eve is the King of Space based RPG's
woohoo, What an awesome article! I think I actually PM'ed Adam after reading the WoW Vs Lotro article hinting at an Eve Vs STO.
Of course, this article is purly for entertainment purposes only, which I think has been missed by some readers, but since its sparked so much conversation I'd say Job well done.
However, as ammusing as it always is, I'm always intrigued by how those more articulate and literate that myself go about describing what it is about Eve that makes it so awesome. After all, even an Eve player with 5 years experience, embarrasing number of accounts and hideous amounts of skill points would openly proclaim; Eve is boring! Well.. it can be!..actually.. its not, well OK, sometimes is, maybe.
So how does one go about describing the Eve experience first without over trumping it giving false expectations and second to not mark it down so much that a typical reader would dismiss the product as boring, tedious and dull ?
Eve is one of those few games whereby the people who dislike the game will say "Oh its a great game, but I hate it, just cant get into it" And the people that love the game will say "Oh its a great game.. but sometimes I hate it, and its not for everyone"
Well, anyway, some very well described parts in this article but I'll have to applaud Adam on this nugget as its so true!
"Things in Eve Online are so diverse, so intriguing, and challenging that the real joy in Eve Online is simply discovering the game."
Although I'd have to say I'm somewhat suspicious, the OP claims to not like Sci-fi, and yet seems to be well versed and experienced with EVE, confident enough to make such statements. Only by playing and loving Eve would you ever understand it enough to say such things, let alone review it! I do wonder how many words here are genuine thoughts from Mr Adam Tingle :P
Originally posted by mklinic I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at with this. If you were comparing two products in the online gaming market, then your example of Farmville vs. EvE is suitable even if meant to be an exaggeration. Disagreeing/Agreeing with your conclusions regarding features makes sense since those features are generally the selling points of the game. Now, comparing 2004 EvE (for example) to 2010 Farmville does not make sense as no one is shopping for 2004 EvE.
You say that the grounds I compare two subjects upon will justify the comparison.
Yet, you do not specify what grounds are supposed to be, thus I assume there are no specifics and I can compare just anything.
That is invalid. You can only compare subjects that share the same objective(s), attributes and there is a measurable quantity.
If you want to compare the two games like STO and EVE Online from market perspective, you will compare the profit/costs/market share/time but not the game features, it will make no sense since the features of both games are not trying to achieve the same.
You say that the grounds I compare two subjects upon will justify the comparison.
Yet, you do not specify what grounds are supposed to be, thus I assume there are no specifics and I can compare just anything.
That is invalid.
You can only compare subjects that share the same objective(s), attributes and there is a measurable quantity.
If you want to compare the two games like STO and EVE Online from market perspective, you will compare the profit/costs/market share/time but not the game features, it will make no sense since the features of both games are not trying to achieve the same.
Comparison has to be meaningful.
The grounds were clearly stated as being within the online gaming market. In practice, you might tend to be more specific and say something like "space based MMO", but for the sake of providing a large enough scope I chose a more vague arena.
Now, if I were an investor (beyond spending my $15/month or whatever the sub cost may be), then profit, costs, market share, etc are certainly relevant. If I was looking for a fun game set in space, then combat style, social tools, etc are more relevant to compare. The comparison should be based on items that are relevant to the target audience. (edit: in case I created confusion "market" can be replaced with "genre" or whatever you want to use to define a "group". "Market" was not intended to imply anything beyond that)
Ultimately, both games are trying to create an experience that encourages a customer to part with their money. So, there goals are quite similar (as arguably any businesses is). How they achieve those goals. within the space MMO niche that the author claimed as his base for comparison, might be quite different and something that makes for meaningful comparison.
edit: fixed typos, added potential clarification.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Unlike the others in this thread I think comparing STO and EVE is a more than fair comparison.
Before STO came out everyone here was talking about how STO was gonna be awesome and great and how no one will play EVE anymore, how CCP is gonna die, because how STO is gonna be awesome and how they are both space games and there is only room for 1 awesome space game.
I remember that. So now after the fact, and after everyones dreams are crushed and STO sucks I think its only fair that we make the comparison now.
"Everyone" was not me - I am a big fan of STO and I like Eve but I always get bored in the end playing Eve because I end up doing nothing but asteroid mining. STO does not suck and my dreams are certainly not "crushed" as I continue to play STO daily. But thank you all the same.
Originally posted by mklinic The grounds were clearly stated as being within the online gaming market.
Yes, it was stated clearly and I clearly pointed out how invalid it is. I even clearly said what you can compare from said 'ground' and why.
Well, except for little flaw that 'fun', 'combat style' nor 'social tools' are measurable attributes thus comparing something(in terms of competition) you cannot measure is very much pointless.
The grounds were clearly stated as being within the online gaming market.
Yes, it was stated clearly and I clearly pointed out how invalid it is. I even clearly said what you can compare from said 'ground' and why.
Well, except for little flaw that 'fun', 'combat style' nor 'social tools' are measurable attributes thus comparing something(in terms of competition) you cannot measure is very much pointless.
Well, I explained the reasoning for the vagueness of the definition, but if your default response to everything is "invalid" then so be it. We just won't find agreement on this and that's perfectly fine.
The original statement of mine that you responded to was meant to illustrate that the comparison being done should be between two items as they stand today and not 2010 Item A versus 2004 Item B. If you want to make it more then, then by all means, go for it.
Really though, this has diverted from the original subject matter which, from what I gather in your responses, you believe are incomparable items (by all means, correct me if I read you wrong). To this, based on the authors opening statements; " Today we pit two space-fairing MMORPGs against one another:", my assertion is that they are comparable within the scope the author presented. Further that features such as combat style, social tools, etc are meaningfully comparable items of interest to the audience which are, however, subject to author bias (this being an opinion piece).
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Originally posted by mklinic Well, I explained the reasoning for the vagueness of the definition, but if your default response to everything is "invalid" then so be it.
You explain your stance and the reasoning you brought up was addressed and pointed out as invalid with appropriate arguments.
What you actually do, is using the market perspective of investor
Originally posted by mklinic Now, if I were an investor (beyond spending my $15/month or whatever the sub cost may be), then profit, costs, market share, etc are certainly relevant.
by comparing 2 products on the market. And then looking from that perspective with customers eyes
Originally posted by mklinic If I was looking for a fun game set in space, then combat style, social tools, etc are more relevant to compare.
to compare the products.
That is a manipulation and invalid approach.
If you want to look at the game with the customers eyes, you need to consider the perspective as well and a customer who is looking for STO casual play is not the that much interested in complex sandbox game such as EVE Online is.
Well, I explained the reasoning for the vagueness of the definition, but if your default response to everything is "invalid" then so be it.
You explain your stance and the reasoning you brought up was addressed and pointed out as invalid with appropriate arguments.
What you actually do, is using the market perspective of investor
Originally posted by mklinic
Now, if I were an investor (beyond spending my $15/month or whatever the sub cost may be), then profit, costs, market share, etc are certainly relevant.
by comparing 2 products on the market. And then looking from that perspective with customers eyes
Originally posted by mklinic
If I was looking for a fun game set in space, then combat style, social tools, etc are more relevant to compare.
to compare the products.
That is a manipulation and invalid approach.
If you want to look at the game with the customers eyes, you need to consider the perspective as well and a customer who is looking for STO casual play is not the that much interested in complex sandbox game such as EVE Online is.
I disagree with your perception of valid arguments on the first part, but at this point, I don't see either of us changing our view or gaining any further understanding from each other.
Regarding the middle, as someone writing an opinion piece for potentially like-minded customers, I would not factor market share, profit margins, etc into my opinion of the game features and which game has better. If I were trying to sell shares in the company, I would certainly compare the financials, but then I am no longer just comparing game vs. game. I am then comparing product catalogues and how, for example, STO might affect Cryptics offerings overall.
Finally, if I want to look at he game through the customers eyes, I would look at 2010 Game A versus 2010 Game B. The rest makes assumptions as to what the customer wants and is informed about already and is....wait for it...invalid. It's been a long road, but glad we could get there
Kidding aside, I've stated my position and I do not see enough compelling counter-points to change my mind. Sorry we couldn't agree, but thanks for the diversion from an otherwise tedious work day. I don't feel further conversation is going to push things forward, but I know you'll have a follow up so enjoy the last word on this one.
edit: still more typos
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
STO is for people who cba to get through the learning curve of eve. other than that it cant be compared. ( tho eve is pwn and STo gets boring )
i played both, decided to stick with eve, evn tho im a star trek fan, they'l need to bring in more then this to keep me from playing STO instead of EvE.
Originally posted by Suraknar In either case, I agree with the overall result of this match, unfortunatelly STO lacks in many ways compared to EVE's scope.
How can you lack something you never even had the intentions to have? How does that make any sense?
In either case, I agree with the overall result of this match, unfortunatelly STO lacks in many ways compared to EVE's scope.
How can you lack something you never even had the intentions to have? How does that make any sense?
You're right. They never intended to have a large scope. Sad really. This IP was meant for a serious developer that would give it the respect it deserves. Cryptic never intended for this game to have a large scope.
honestly, Eve is the new Ultima Online if you think about it.... free to do whatever you want whenever you want... but in space, its gonna stay here for a long... LONG time in the spotlight
only thing that could even take down Eve is if someone decided to create a Eve clone but changed the skins and IP to something that some fans wanted for example, STO if gone Eve styled would be a decent contender, even FireFly or even Battlestar Galatica.... fuck even Babylon 5 and Farscape could be contenders..
but meh, rightnow like i said Eve is the King of Space based RPG's
By EVE clone I presume you mean something like Perpetuum . . . which is a direct rip off (or reskin if you prefer to be PC).
Although there is no chance that it will unseat EVE.
Imo the author has no idea what he is talking about,probably he is just an EVE player who finds STO a threat(I wouldnt be surprised if he got a nice amount of money from the eve team for writing this,that was my first thought after reading this crap).
1: He used the demo as a basis for STO? That's not even close to being right. That's like watching an advertisement for a movie and judging how good or bad it is by that alone. You don't get to see any of the real good or bad parts to give a correct review or judgement. You might be able to decide you don't like a game that quickly, but that doesn't give you enough experience in it to write any kind of review or comparison.
2: The comparisons were clearly done without any real consideration as to what their advantages or draws were. I mean, he gave Player Character a 9 to EVE and a 5 to STO? Your character in EVE actually has little bearing in it than to give a human portrait to your spreadsheets. Depth might be incredible, but the character itself could be done without entirely and not affect the game much. In STO, your character actually has a presence and you actually do things with him/her. Solo and group experience were grouped together this time, like he just got lazy when writing it and wanted it done quickly. If that's the case, don't even bother writing this...although he shouldn't have in the first place if all he played was the demo of STO. Solo play and group play should, in my opinion, be kept separate when comparing, because then you get a better feel of the strengths of a game's style. Hell, community....Caldari, if not most EVE players, should know this one: SWARTA. You got extremes of decent people and royal hell in one chat channel, so to say it's full of friendly and helpful people is just being blind. It has its share of jerks, and that's not counting the elitists.
This review/comparison was just plain bad taste. If he wasn't willing to put some real time and effort into STO and compare the two by taking a good look at the good and bad of both, he shouldn't have written this. And this is coming from someone who tends to prefer EVE over STO.
In Wildness is the Preservation of the World So Seek the Wolf in Thyself
Game universe:Star Trek is a big name since the 70s,it has millions of fans everwhere on Earth.Comparing the 2 universes is just ridiculous,the EvE universe has no chance against Star Trek at all sorry. STO:11/10 EVE:6/10
Player Character:The character customization in STO is superior compared to any other game on the market(WoW can cry in a corner too).You can customize everything thus every character in the game unique and looks like no other.20-30 different races and the game is just beutiful(btw the ship customization is awesome too).The talents and character customization remind me of vanila WoW,you can make choices,plenty talents to choose from,its not like the usual todays MMO where every 9yo can make a good spec with clicking on random icons on the screen(WoW today).
EVE:So what you want to be?Human?Human?Human or Human?ooor Human?(I left EVE at this point so cant comment on the rest,yeah sure I want to be a human in a space MMO,its just sad lol).
STO:8/10
EVE:0/10
End game PvP:In STO the PvP is pretty good,gear has very little impact on your performance and all that matters is skill.Very dynamic and enjoyable battles(left WoW PvP for STO PvP it is THAT good honestly and without the arena crap,this is coming from a better than average player I got arena master but wow pvp still sux imo).Game balance is very good,science vessels are a bit weak compared to others but its nothing serious.My only problem is the lack of world PvP in the game but cryptic promised to look into it(still,-1 point for this).If the author thinks that STO PvP is bad he: a)never played STO or b)STO was his first game in his life
EvE PvP:no idea how it workd but I heard that it is slow and you can just give commands to your ship and wait happens(at least I am honest not like the author).
STO PvP 9/10 EvE PvP:-
Solo and group experience:STO has a lot to improve on the group aspect of the game,single player game experience is awesome though.
STO 5/10 EVE:-
Community:STO has by far the best community out there.Players are mature,helpful and (almost) nobody cares about such things as epeen.Forum trolls are almost non existant,the atmosphere is just not good for them(it is like in the very early days of wow).
EvE:from what I saw on their forum its almost as bad as the WoW forums.If you want to ask for help prepare your flame resistance equipment.
STO:10/10(lets hope that it stays like this long) EvE:Honestly I dont know enough about that game but nowhere near close to 10/10 for sure.
Comments
Farmville - trying to get customers in 2010
EVE Online - trying to get customers in 2010
EVE Online, at least on same level, is competing with Farmville for online entertainment market that exists today so it is only fair to compare them as they both stand today.
Sounds pretty stupid when the very same thing is said in different perspective, doesn't it?
Not at all. If you felt like writing an article comparing Farmville and EvE on those grounds, then, aside from applauding your creativity, I would be left either agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion, but the grounds you are comparing them on would be justified.
If you said EvE's combat is superior to Farmville's (if FV had combat), I could argue that.
If you said Farmville's territory management was superior to EvE I could argue that.
If you said EvE year one should be compared to Farmville year one, you'd be wrong since they would be competing in today's market.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
It's like making an article comparing WoW and FFXIV.
WoW would curbstomp FFXIV in the article and FFXIV fans would be upset and the article would be boring and one-sided.
Edit: In 6 years though, FFXIV might be a more well rounded game and able to hold up an argument.
You are right that you can agree or disagree with something but that is not justifying a subject nor validates the reasoning...
I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at with this. If you were comparing two products in the online gaming market, then your example of Farmville vs. EvE is suitable even if meant to be an exaggeration. Disagreeing/Agreeing with your conclusions regarding features makes sense since those features are generally the selling points of the game. Now, comparing 2004 EvE (for example) to 2010 Farmville does not make sense as no one is shopping for 2004 EvE.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
honestly, Eve is the new Ultima Online if you think about it.... free to do whatever you want whenever you want... but in space, its gonna stay here for a long... LONG time in the spotlight
only thing that could even take down Eve is if someone decided to create a Eve clone but changed the skins and IP to something that some fans wanted for example, STO if gone Eve styled would be a decent contender, even FireFly or even Battlestar Galatica.... fuck even Babylon 5 and Farscape could be contenders..
but meh, rightnow like i said Eve is the King of Space based RPG's
woohoo, What an awesome article! I think I actually PM'ed Adam after reading the WoW Vs Lotro article hinting at an Eve Vs STO.
Of course, this article is purly for entertainment purposes only, which I think has been missed by some readers, but since its sparked so much conversation I'd say Job well done.
However, as ammusing as it always is, I'm always intrigued by how those more articulate and literate that myself go about describing what it is about Eve that makes it so awesome. After all, even an Eve player with 5 years experience, embarrasing number of accounts and hideous amounts of skill points would openly proclaim; Eve is boring! Well.. it can be!..actually.. its not, well OK, sometimes is, maybe.
So how does one go about describing the Eve experience first without over trumping it giving false expectations and second to not mark it down so much that a typical reader would dismiss the product as boring, tedious and dull ?
Eve is one of those few games whereby the people who dislike the game will say "Oh its a great game, but I hate it, just cant get into it" And the people that love the game will say "Oh its a great game.. but sometimes I hate it, and its not for everyone"
Well, anyway, some very well described parts in this article but I'll have to applaud Adam on this nugget as its so true!
"Things in Eve Online are so diverse, so intriguing, and challenging that the real joy in Eve Online is simply discovering the game."
Although I'd have to say I'm somewhat suspicious, the OP claims to not like Sci-fi, and yet seems to be well versed and experienced with EVE, confident enough to make such statements. Only by playing and loving Eve would you ever understand it enough to say such things, let alone review it! I do wonder how many words here are genuine thoughts from Mr Adam Tingle :P
You say that the grounds I compare two subjects upon will justify the comparison.
Yet, you do not specify what grounds are supposed to be, thus I assume there are no specifics and I can compare just anything.
That is invalid.
You can only compare subjects that share the same objective(s), attributes and there is a measurable quantity.
If you want to compare the two games like STO and EVE Online from market perspective, you will compare the profit/costs/market share/time but not the game features, it will make no sense since the features of both games are not trying to achieve the same.
Comparison has to be meaningful.
The grounds were clearly stated as being within the online gaming market. In practice, you might tend to be more specific and say something like "space based MMO", but for the sake of providing a large enough scope I chose a more vague arena.
Now, if I were an investor (beyond spending my $15/month or whatever the sub cost may be), then profit, costs, market share, etc are certainly relevant. If I was looking for a fun game set in space, then combat style, social tools, etc are more relevant to compare. The comparison should be based on items that are relevant to the target audience. (edit: in case I created confusion "market" can be replaced with "genre" or whatever you want to use to define a "group". "Market" was not intended to imply anything beyond that)
Ultimately, both games are trying to create an experience that encourages a customer to part with their money. So, there goals are quite similar (as arguably any businesses is). How they achieve those goals. within the space MMO niche that the author claimed as his base for comparison, might be quite different and something that makes for meaningful comparison.
edit: fixed typos, added potential clarification.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
"Everyone" was not me - I am a big fan of STO and I like Eve but I always get bored in the end playing Eve because I end up doing nothing but asteroid mining. STO does not suck and my dreams are certainly not "crushed" as I continue to play STO daily. But thank you all the same.
Sanguinous Rex
Aslan ch'Shran
www.paxgaming.com
Yes, it was stated clearly and I clearly pointed out how invalid it is. I even clearly said what you can compare from said 'ground' and why.
Well, except for little flaw that 'fun', 'combat style' nor 'social tools' are measurable attributes thus comparing something(in terms of competition) you cannot measure is very much pointless.
Well, I explained the reasoning for the vagueness of the definition, but if your default response to everything is "invalid" then so be it. We just won't find agreement on this and that's perfectly fine.
The original statement of mine that you responded to was meant to illustrate that the comparison being done should be between two items as they stand today and not 2010 Item A versus 2004 Item B. If you want to make it more then, then by all means, go for it.
Really though, this has diverted from the original subject matter which, from what I gather in your responses, you believe are incomparable items (by all means, correct me if I read you wrong). To this, based on the authors opening statements; " Today we pit two space-fairing MMORPGs against one another:", my assertion is that they are comparable within the scope the author presented. Further that features such as combat style, social tools, etc are meaningfully comparable items of interest to the audience which are, however, subject to author bias (this being an opinion piece).
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
You explain your stance and the reasoning you brought up was addressed and pointed out as invalid with appropriate arguments.
by comparing 2 products on the market. And then looking from that perspective with customers eyes to compare the products.What you actually do, is using the market perspective of investor
That is a manipulation and invalid approach.
If you want to look at the game with the customers eyes, you need to consider the perspective as well and a customer who is looking for STO casual play is not the that much interested in complex sandbox game such as EVE Online is.
I disagree with your perception of valid arguments on the first part, but at this point, I don't see either of us changing our view or gaining any further understanding from each other.
Regarding the middle, as someone writing an opinion piece for potentially like-minded customers, I would not factor market share, profit margins, etc into my opinion of the game features and which game has better. If I were trying to sell shares in the company, I would certainly compare the financials, but then I am no longer just comparing game vs. game. I am then comparing product catalogues and how, for example, STO might affect Cryptics offerings overall.
Finally, if I want to look at he game through the customers eyes, I would look at 2010 Game A versus 2010 Game B. The rest makes assumptions as to what the customer wants and is informed about already and is....wait for it...invalid. It's been a long road, but glad we could get there
Kidding aside, I've stated my position and I do not see enough compelling counter-points to change my mind. Sorry we couldn't agree, but thanks for the diversion from an otherwise tedious work day. I don't feel further conversation is going to push things forward, but I know you'll have a follow up so enjoy the last word on this one.
edit: still more typos
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
STO is for people who cba to get through the learning curve of eve. other than that it cant be compared. ( tho eve is pwn and STo gets boring )
i played both, decided to stick with eve, evn tho im a star trek fan, they'l need to bring in more then this to keep me from playing STO instead of EvE.
I do not agree exactly with all that was said on every element here, but this was not a specific mechanics contest.
In either case, I agree with the overall result of this match, unfortunatelly STO lacks in many ways compared to EVE's scope.
Actually it lacks compared to its own IP's scope, and that is what is sad about it.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
How can you lack something you never even had the intentions to have? How does that make any sense?
what a joke lol, eve is like milion times better game lol. In sto you will respawn with your ship and all modules on it. You dont lose anything realy.
You're right. They never intended to have a large scope. Sad really. This IP was meant for a serious developer that would give it the respect it deserves. Cryptic never intended for this game to have a large scope.
By EVE clone I presume you mean something like Perpetuum . . . which is a direct rip off (or reskin if you prefer to be PC).
Although there is no chance that it will unseat EVE.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
So the reviewer only played 57 mintutes of the demo which doesn't allow you to PvP, Craft, enter Fleet actions, or run STFs?
Yet the reviewer chose to have an opinion on content he could not possibly test on a demo account?
Great journalism!
He has quickly become notorious for doing these types of articles without having much actual real experience in the games involved.
Imo the author has no idea what he is talking about,probably he is just an EVE player who finds STO a threat(I wouldnt be surprised if he got a nice amount of money from the eve team for writing this,that was my first thought after reading this crap).
Got a couple issues with this article myself.
1: He used the demo as a basis for STO? That's not even close to being right. That's like watching an advertisement for a movie and judging how good or bad it is by that alone. You don't get to see any of the real good or bad parts to give a correct review or judgement. You might be able to decide you don't like a game that quickly, but that doesn't give you enough experience in it to write any kind of review or comparison.
2: The comparisons were clearly done without any real consideration as to what their advantages or draws were. I mean, he gave Player Character a 9 to EVE and a 5 to STO? Your character in EVE actually has little bearing in it than to give a human portrait to your spreadsheets. Depth might be incredible, but the character itself could be done without entirely and not affect the game much. In STO, your character actually has a presence and you actually do things with him/her. Solo and group experience were grouped together this time, like he just got lazy when writing it and wanted it done quickly. If that's the case, don't even bother writing this...although he shouldn't have in the first place if all he played was the demo of STO. Solo play and group play should, in my opinion, be kept separate when comparing, because then you get a better feel of the strengths of a game's style. Hell, community....Caldari, if not most EVE players, should know this one: SWARTA. You got extremes of decent people and royal hell in one chat channel, so to say it's full of friendly and helpful people is just being blind. It has its share of jerks, and that's not counting the elitists.
This review/comparison was just plain bad taste. If he wasn't willing to put some real time and effort into STO and compare the two by taking a good look at the good and bad of both, he shouldn't have written this. And this is coming from someone who tends to prefer EVE over STO.
In Wildness is the Preservation of the World
So Seek the Wolf in Thyself
Game universe:Star Trek is a big name since the 70s,it has millions of fans everwhere on Earth.Comparing the 2 universes is just ridiculous,the EvE universe has no chance against Star Trek at all sorry. STO:11/10 EVE:6/10
Player Character:The character customization in STO is superior compared to any other game on the market(WoW can cry in a corner too).You can customize everything thus every character in the game unique and looks like no other.20-30 different races and the game is just beutiful(btw the ship customization is awesome too).The talents and character customization remind me of vanila WoW,you can make choices,plenty talents to choose from,its not like the usual todays MMO where every 9yo can make a good spec with clicking on random icons on the screen(WoW today).
EVE:So what you want to be?Human?Human?Human or Human?ooor Human?(I left EVE at this point so cant comment on the rest,yeah sure I want to be a human in a space MMO,its just sad lol).
STO:8/10
EVE:0/10
End game PvP:In STO the PvP is pretty good,gear has very little impact on your performance and all that matters is skill.Very dynamic and enjoyable battles(left WoW PvP for STO PvP it is THAT good honestly and without the arena crap,this is coming from a better than average player I got arena master but wow pvp still sux imo).Game balance is very good,science vessels are a bit weak compared to others but its nothing serious.My only problem is the lack of world PvP in the game but cryptic promised to look into it(still,-1 point for this).If the author thinks that STO PvP is bad he: a)never played STO or b)STO was his first game in his life
EvE PvP:no idea how it workd but I heard that it is slow and you can just give commands to your ship and wait happens(at least I am honest not like the author).
STO PvP 9/10 EvE PvP:-
Solo and group experience:STO has a lot to improve on the group aspect of the game,single player game experience is awesome though.
STO 5/10 EVE:-
Community:STO has by far the best community out there.Players are mature,helpful and (almost) nobody cares about such things as epeen.Forum trolls are almost non existant,the atmosphere is just not good for them(it is like in the very early days of wow).
EvE:from what I saw on their forum its almost as bad as the WoW forums.If you want to ask for help prepare your flame resistance equipment.
STO:10/10(lets hope that it stays like this long) EvE:Honestly I dont know enough about that game but nowhere near close to 10/10 for sure.