No one really should argue that in wrath Ret Pally pvp was not easy. By the same token, we as team really did not have issues with Ret Pallies in S8. WoW pvp requires a good twitch capability and good setup. This will be even more the case in Wrath which has much greater health pools and only slight damage increase. Almost every serious pvper that I know got a beta invite to test pvp in Cata. I could easily bash other games but this is a WoW forum.
The only thing I am bitter about is that S8 gladiators currently will not get the 310 mount upgrade. I have one from my pve activities but still this is wrong.
What?! Glads won't get a 310 mounts? I'd be bitter too if I was good enough to get glad.
Well lets start with this thread seems to be just another one to bash wow. Im sorry but i like wow. I enjoy leveling my alts and have alot of fun. I love to run the raids they are fun and interesting and the boss mechanics change from boss to boss raid to raid so theres always something fun and interesting to do at max level.
Wow in cata is gonna add a new dungeon every expac they are also gonna have mutliple raids per tier. No more 13-14 boss raids but 6-7 boss raids so they can be done in one nite.
I don't think it's a WoW bash. I mean, I'm not trying to bash the game for those who enjoy it, just that too many things about it are either distasteful or broken for my type of game play. WoW did cater to it for a few years, but it's changed and that always brings resistence.
Like you mention the one night clear for raids and that it's great for you. That's fine, but for many who remember ye olden days of dungeon crawls, months working on a raid clear, it feels a little lacklustre and pointless. For me I'll never forget downing those bosses in BWL, AQ40, Naxx, Kara, BT, SSC, Ulduar.
It's just change, and for some of us it means we no longer enjoy aspects of the game and look elsewhere. For others, it's a fun evening spent having fun in game. Just different tastes.
Diminishes interactions between players in the game world.
Conclusions
I feel WoW and MMOs in general are overdeveloped to keep a healthy subscriber pool to make money.
This is what your argument breaks down to once you filter out all the premises that are contradictory or made insignificant by info that's been released on the expansion (some of which you admit yourself).
From my knowledge of the game (I haven't followed WoW directly in awhile), phasing is an important concern for gaming community purposes. However, I think you should flesh out how that is relevant as an 'overdevelopment.'
Of course their goal is to make money. The question is did they implement phasing by player demand (or rather, to address a problem that players were complaining about), or was it a completely independent decision that didn't necessarily coincide with the demands of the playerbase.
I don't remember what Blizzard originally stated as the reasoning for implementing the system, but it was probably to counter kill-stealing issues that always arose with the release of new content, along with giving them more options to make the game world seem more dynamic. The implementation creates further social barriers, but really the game is designed as such prior to phasing to encourage solo questing, I'd say. In that vein, phasing was just the next step in development of that same paradigm. Therefore, it wouldn't be an "overdevelopment."
I'm not going to attempt to convince you that you should or should not play the game, you obviously have your own reasons for that - just pointing out that maybe the game was made to develop along a path you disliked in the first place, and this most recent step simply made that design more obvious.
Diminishes interactions between players in the game world.
Conclusions
I feel WoW and MMOs in general are overdeveloped to keep a healthy subscriber pool to make money.
This is what your argument breaks down to once you filter out all the premises that are contradictory or made insignificant by info that's been released on the expansion (some of which you admit yourself).
From my knowledge of the game (I haven't followed WoW directly in awhile), phasing is an important concern for gaming community purposes. However, I think you should flesh out how that is relevant as an 'overdevelopment.'
Of course their goal is to make money. The question is did they implement phasing by player demand (or rather, to address a problem that players were complaining about), or was it a completely independent decision that didn't necessarily coincide with the demands of the playerbase.
I don't remember what Blizzard originally stated as the reasoning for implementing the system, but it was probably to counter kill-stealing issues that always arose with the release of new content, along with giving them more options to make the game world seem more dynamic. The implementation creates further social barriers, but really the game is designed as such prior to phasing to encourage solo questing, I'd say. In that vein, phasing was just the next step in development of that same paradigm. Therefore, it wouldn't be an "overdevelopment."
I'm not going to attempt to convince you that you should or should not play the game, you obviously have your own reasons for that - just pointing out that maybe the game was made to develop along a path you disliked in the first place, and this most recent step simply made that design more obvious.
Phasing is used in multiple ways for various reasons. Check this out:
Types of Phases
In Wrath, phasing is implemented in three different, and quite distinct, ways. The first is the phased instance. The only example currently is the Death Knight starting area. Beginning Death Knights are not actually in a phased section of the Eastern Plaguelands, they are actually in a large instance modeled after the eastern portion of the zone, similar to the way Old Hillsbrad is an instance modeled after a portion of Hillsbrad Foothills. This is indicated by the fact that the starter area is surrounded by invisible walls that prevent players from leaving, as well as the fact that players have a different General and Local Defense chat channel.
Second, there are temporary phases, like Fleshwerks in Icecrown. Once you complete the quests that the area is phased for, it returns to normal. There are a few other examples, such as the phase you enter in Zul'Drak when riding Gymer. There is also the Court of Bones in Icecrown, which only phases if you have certain quests from the Argent Tournament.
Finally, there are permanent phases, where you are unlocking an area, such as Shadow Vault and Dun Niffelem. Often, these areas are changed through a series of phases, and once the quest chain unlocking the area has been completed, the character will always see the area in its new state.
A form of the permanent phase, terrain phasing, makes an introduction with Cataclysm. This phasing involves changing the land around you, which happens like other phases, through quests and events.
Before Wrath of the Lich King, phasing was used in stealth and invisibility mechanics. Events such as the opening of Ahn'Qiraj and the taking over of the Isle of Quel'Danas were simply different realm databases adding game objects and NPCs for all players.
This happens every expansion and is really ramping up in Cata. Talent Trees, stats, etc. all being dumbed down to easy-to-gauge formats, making class knowledge less important when making talent and gear/stat choices. It will be more difficult to distinguish between strong and weak players at a glance.
This is so far off the mark I will not justify a hug ecomment to it(to explain why you are wrong) because clearly you like most non-WoW players do not now that these new talent trees are more customizable than ever and talents are actually useful now and the bad and useless ones are gone. I wil say this though, two talents Blizzard removed that shoulkd not have been removed from the game sorta makes me sad. One was from the Hunter tree that allowed us to take control of our pet and the other was MArk of Blood from the Dk tree. Those two I used a lot.
Teala seriously now in case u r not any blizard agent....
The new talent trees are more customizable than ever?????
They removed you the right to rty and experiment balanced speccs example I used to put 31 talents in 1 tree 20 in a2nd tree and 20 in a 3rd tree.Hell i want to try any possible specc combo.Hell i want o put 36 talents on survival and 35 talents to markmanship! I DONT want to specialize only in 1 tree! and they force you to IF u want to play beastial press 1 if u want to play markmanship press 2 if u want to play survival press 3 .
WHAT CUSTOMIZATION U TALKING ABOUT?
Talents are actually usefull now?
Dude i PUKED whn i saw Markmanship talents
Bad and useless talents are gone now?
Good only they forgot to replace them with other better ones and even ENLARGE every tree with way more talents so EVRY player will be DIFERENT from each other .Example. SO When 2 arm warriors go for arena in arms pvp specc they would probably have different talents simply because there would be lot of talents to pick and ppl could pick diferent talents from eachother so there would be DIFFERINTATION ,smart ppl's choises awarded etc etc etc.
Instead ,NOW every arms warrior will have EXACTLY the same specc and all arms warriors will be clones . GG Bliz
Lots of people will play it. You're hardly setting the trend. But you're really doing it for yourself right? And posting about it for personnal reasons right?
I tend to agree with the original posters reasons why I too will not be coming back. This is a place to post and talk about mmorpgs, right? So I am confused as to your issue with the poster laying out actual reasons why he won't play the expansion of WoW. It isn't as if he just posted "I Hate WoW and wont play it!". Posts like yours I find highly annoying they lack any substance and are basically trolling posts.
A better and much more constructive post would have been if you had broken down why you "don't " agree with each point that he made. ((shrugs))
I won't play wow because i'm moving to the single player console. Mmog genre is just bland. Currently saving money for the TV which i don't currently own.
Oh, so you are just trolling then. Your posting on a MMORPG forum and yet you aren't going to be playing mmorpgs. Not only that you aren't even going to be playing WoW and your best arguement is "bland"?. Well at least you aren't long winded.
I would like new graphics but it doesn't bother me that much. And something tells me it would take the feel out of the game if the graphics were changed to be totally different and customers might quit since it wouldn't be the game they came to love... better off saving this change for WoW 2.
New classes are always fun but it doesn't bother me that much as I have yet to level every class to max. And then there's the balance rollercoaster ala DKs.
I'm kinda indifferent about the new Azeroth. Kinda cool, but I don't care that much.
Not every class was simplified. Some classes are now harder to play instead of easier. Pallies now have "Holy Power" that is a completely new mechanic for them. Elemental shaman now have to watch for certain talent procs and use certain abilities that have built up... just a couple examples. I think you're out of the loop on this point.
No new end-game talents kinda sucks, but that would just be more stuff to go on the balance rollercoaster.
Lore takes a backseat to gameplay, and I think tauren pallies are going to be awesome.
So you think it's overdeveloped yet you're dissapointed that they're simplifying things? Doesn't make sense.
One thing I would like to see is more of a focus on PvP. They seem to put most of their effort into PvE. It needs to be 50/50, right now it's more 20/80.
This happens every expansion and is really ramping up in Cata. Talent Trees, stats, etc. all being dumbed down to easy-to-gauge formats, making class knowledge less important when making talent and gear/stat choices. It will be more difficult to distinguish between strong and weak players at a glance.
This is so far off the mark I will not justify a hug ecomment to it(to explain why you are wrong) because clearly you like most non-WoW players do not now that these new talent trees are more customizable than ever and talents are actually useful now and the bad and useless ones are gone. I wil say this though, two talents Blizzard removed that shoulkd not have been removed from the game sorta makes me sad. One was from the Hunter tree that allowed us to take control of our pet and the other was MArk of Blood from the Dk tree. Those two I used a lot.
Teala seriously now in case u r not any blizard agent....
The new talent trees are more customizable than ever?????
They removed you the right to rty and experiment balanced speccs example I used to put 31 talents in 1 tree 20 in a2nd tree and 20 in a 3rd tree.Hell i want to try any possible specc combo.Hell i want o put 36 talents on survival and 35 talents to markmanship! I DONT want to specialize only in 1 tree! and they force you to IF u want to play beastial press 1 if u want to play markmanship press 2 if u want to play survival press 3 .
WHAT CUSTOMIZATION U TALKING ABOUT?
Talents are actually usefull now?
Dude i PUKED whn i saw Markmanship talents
Bad and useless talents are gone now?
Good only they forgot to replace them with other better ones and even ENLARGE every tree with way more talents so EVRY player will be DIFERENT from each other .Example. SO When 2 arm warriors go for arena in arms pvp specc they would probably have different talents simply because there would be lot of talents to pick and ppl could pick diferent talents from eachother so there would be DIFFERINTATION ,smart ppl's choises awarded etc etc etc.
Instead ,NOW every arms warrior will have EXACTLY the same specc and all arms warriors will be clones . GG Bliz
No most likely both Warriors visited Elitist Jerks or a similar site and looked at the two or three viable PVP specs and chose one of them. Of that's right they had 3 or 4 points to move around like they liked...sorry forgot how customizable it was.
People really need tyo take off the rose colored glasses and remember that rarely were there many, many totally different talent specs. Sure, you had a few points to move around but for the most part, your spec was set.....you just had to waste a lot of points on stupid stuff to get it. Seriously, 1 point for 1% more mana....what a great reward for a level.
I would rather spend more points in one tree if all the talents are good then waste a bunch to get to that good talent buired at the bottom.
I disagree Elidien.
Even if u were right, its better to have 2-3 options apart an obvious specc than none.Point is ,if they did put even more talents in each tree,u may ended up in various and intresting mixes that many other players wouldnt think and didnt try,which awards u and make u unique in your build compared to the 2 warriors which as it is now, they dont even have to go to elitists jerks to check which build to make ,since its pretty obvious what to do even for my 10 y old nephew.
Comments
What?! Glads won't get a 310 mounts? I'd be bitter too if I was good enough to get glad.
5k goldsink right there, make the players bleed before cata.
On the bright side : It doesnt matter if you had glad in previous session as one mount 310 => all 310 as far as i got it.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
I don't think it's a WoW bash. I mean, I'm not trying to bash the game for those who enjoy it, just that too many things about it are either distasteful or broken for my type of game play. WoW did cater to it for a few years, but it's changed and that always brings resistence.
Like you mention the one night clear for raids and that it's great for you. That's fine, but for many who remember ye olden days of dungeon crawls, months working on a raid clear, it feels a little lacklustre and pointless. For me I'll never forget downing those bosses in BWL, AQ40, Naxx, Kara, BT, SSC, Ulduar.
It's just change, and for some of us it means we no longer enjoy aspects of the game and look elsewhere. For others, it's a fun evening spent having fun in game. Just different tastes.
This is what your argument breaks down to once you filter out all the premises that are contradictory or made insignificant by info that's been released on the expansion (some of which you admit yourself).
From my knowledge of the game (I haven't followed WoW directly in awhile), phasing is an important concern for gaming community purposes. However, I think you should flesh out how that is relevant as an 'overdevelopment.'
Of course their goal is to make money. The question is did they implement phasing by player demand (or rather, to address a problem that players were complaining about), or was it a completely independent decision that didn't necessarily coincide with the demands of the playerbase.
I don't remember what Blizzard originally stated as the reasoning for implementing the system, but it was probably to counter kill-stealing issues that always arose with the release of new content, along with giving them more options to make the game world seem more dynamic. The implementation creates further social barriers, but really the game is designed as such prior to phasing to encourage solo questing, I'd say. In that vein, phasing was just the next step in development of that same paradigm. Therefore, it wouldn't be an "overdevelopment."
I'm not going to attempt to convince you that you should or should not play the game, you obviously have your own reasons for that - just pointing out that maybe the game was made to develop along a path you disliked in the first place, and this most recent step simply made that design more obvious.
Phasing is used in multiple ways for various reasons. Check this out:
Types of Phases
In Wrath, phasing is implemented in three different, and quite distinct, ways. The first is the phased instance. The only example currently is the Death Knight starting area. Beginning Death Knights are not actually in a phased section of the Eastern Plaguelands, they are actually in a large instance modeled after the eastern portion of the zone, similar to the way Old Hillsbrad is an instance modeled after a portion of Hillsbrad Foothills. This is indicated by the fact that the starter area is surrounded by invisible walls that prevent players from leaving, as well as the fact that players have a different General and Local Defense chat channel.
Second, there are temporary phases, like Fleshwerks in Icecrown. Once you complete the quests that the area is phased for, it returns to normal. There are a few other examples, such as the phase you enter in Zul'Drak when riding Gymer. There is also the Court of Bones in Icecrown, which only phases if you have certain quests from the Argent Tournament.
Finally, there are permanent phases, where you are unlocking an area, such as Shadow Vault and Dun Niffelem. Often, these areas are changed through a series of phases, and once the quest chain unlocking the area has been completed, the character will always see the area in its new state.
A form of the permanent phase, terrain phasing, makes an introduction with Cataclysm. This phasing involves changing the land around you, which happens like other phases, through quests and events.
Usage before Wrath of the Lich King
Before Wrath of the Lich King, phasing was used in stealth and invisibility mechanics. Events such as the opening of Ahn'Qiraj and the taking over of the Isle of Quel'Danas were simply different realm databases adding game objects and NPCs for all players.
Phasing was invented as a bug fix for the Shattered Sun Offensive daily quests in Blade's Edge Mountains: Intercepting the Mana Cells† andMaintaining the Sunwell Portal.[1]
Teala seriously now in case u r not any blizard agent....
The new talent trees are more customizable than ever?????
They removed you the right to rty and experiment balanced speccs example I used to put 31 talents in 1 tree 20 in a2nd tree and 20 in a 3rd tree.Hell i want to try any possible specc combo.Hell i want o put 36 talents on survival and 35 talents to markmanship! I DONT want to specialize only in 1 tree! and they force you to IF u want to play beastial press 1 if u want to play markmanship press 2 if u want to play survival press 3 .
WHAT CUSTOMIZATION U TALKING ABOUT?
Talents are actually usefull now?
Dude i PUKED whn i saw Markmanship talents
Bad and useless talents are gone now?
Good only they forgot to replace them with other better ones and even ENLARGE every tree with way more talents so EVRY player will be DIFERENT from each other .Example. SO When 2 arm warriors go for arena in arms pvp specc they would probably have different talents simply because there would be lot of talents to pick and ppl could pick diferent talents from eachother so there would be DIFFERINTATION ,smart ppl's choises awarded etc etc etc.
Instead ,NOW every arms warrior will have EXACTLY the same specc and all arms warriors will be clones . GG Bliz
I tend to agree with the original posters reasons why I too will not be coming back. This is a place to post and talk about mmorpgs, right? So I am confused as to your issue with the poster laying out actual reasons why he won't play the expansion of WoW. It isn't as if he just posted "I Hate WoW and wont play it!". Posts like yours I find highly annoying they lack any substance and are basically trolling posts.
A better and much more constructive post would have been if you had broken down why you "don't " agree with each point that he made. ((shrugs))
Oh, so you are just trolling then. Your posting on a MMORPG forum and yet you aren't going to be playing mmorpgs. Not only that you aren't even going to be playing WoW and your best arguement is "bland"?. Well at least you aren't long winded.
I would like new graphics but it doesn't bother me that much. And something tells me it would take the feel out of the game if the graphics were changed to be totally different and customers might quit since it wouldn't be the game they came to love... better off saving this change for WoW 2.
New classes are always fun but it doesn't bother me that much as I have yet to level every class to max. And then there's the balance rollercoaster ala DKs.
I'm kinda indifferent about the new Azeroth. Kinda cool, but I don't care that much.
Not every class was simplified. Some classes are now harder to play instead of easier. Pallies now have "Holy Power" that is a completely new mechanic for them. Elemental shaman now have to watch for certain talent procs and use certain abilities that have built up... just a couple examples. I think you're out of the loop on this point.
No new end-game talents kinda sucks, but that would just be more stuff to go on the balance rollercoaster.
Lore takes a backseat to gameplay, and I think tauren pallies are going to be awesome.
So you think it's overdeveloped yet you're dissapointed that they're simplifying things? Doesn't make sense.
One thing I would like to see is more of a focus on PvP. They seem to put most of their effort into PvE. It needs to be 50/50, right now it's more 20/80.
I disagree Elidien.
Even if u were right, its better to have 2-3 options apart an obvious specc than none.Point is ,if they did put even more talents in each tree,u may ended up in various and intresting mixes that many other players wouldnt think and didnt try,which awards u and make u unique in your build compared to the 2 warriors which as it is now, they dont even have to go to elitists jerks to check which build to make ,since its pretty obvious what to do even for my 10 y old nephew.