I like penalties for death, it makes you more alert, become better at the game faster, keeps you on your toes.
you obviously never played Eve Online. have you ever seen a grown man pulling his hair out because he had lost a ship that is worth hundreds of dollars in real-life money and his character's implants that are worth the same?
And you are obviously an idiot!
Number one rule of EvE: DON'T FLY WHAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE!
So if your getting all pissed off because you lost a ship, then you obviously broke that rule. Or you need to grow up.
I really enjoy eve online, even with the death penalties, coz no other game lets me loose in such a huge universe, with such huge ships to command in such large pvp battles....
BUT EVEN I have to admit that the death penalty in this game is too harsh!
''never fly what you cant afford to loose'''
this credo doesnt help very much. = What if i got enough cash to buy and equip *2* cruisers.
I buy one and loose it to gate campers.(or whatever)
NOW i can buy another one and equip it with the cash left over from the first one. (remember, had enough money to buy 2 cruiser at the beginning)
BUT according to the logic of ''never fly what you cant afford to loose'': now i can not use that newly bought ship, coz i dont have enough cash to REPLACE THAT ONE TOO, if it gets destroyed!
So what do i do?
FARM asteroids, rats, or some agent missions(etc).
So, whether i have enough cash to replace the lost ship or not is KIND OF IRRELEVANT, since ultimatley i still have to pay for my losses just the same,,, THIS WORD OF WISDOM DOES NOT JUSTIFY/ OR REDUCE THE RISK OF THE DEATH PENALTY. (but it urges (IMO) caution and avoidance against ''hot headedness'' which is good)
SO, in my humble opinion the idea is:
''In eve online, your enemies are humans just like you, AND its *GONNA HURT LIKE HELL* if you loose a good ship, and even fancy words might be no cosolation to your predicament. Yupp, eve is hardcore, and if u can't take the heat, than you gotta hit the road. IF on the other hand your one of the select few that can embrace such a risk of (death) penalty, than welcome,as you have just found your new home:)
PS: From MY (*PERSONAL*) EXPERIENCE in EVE, only being in an UBER-GUILD can allivate your ''death penalty'' problems. (ship/equipment loss, plus loss of the pilot life)
Unfortunately for me..........i aint exactly one of the ppl who can take the heat (loose a beloved, well equipped ship and my captain), so i love eve, but sometimes she doesnt love me back, she's a harsh mistress.
Thats why, speaking for myself; id like some reduced death penalties in EVE, but i can also see/understand why the devs never gonna make such changes.
I prefer heavy penalties such as EXP loss and items staying on your corpse.
This provides a more exhilirating feeling during combat and those close call situations, increases the sense of accomplishment when you do survive a close call, provides a bigger sense of accomplishment for reaching higher levels, and encourages you to pay attention and play at your best.
Most games now days death penalties are nothing. You die, rez, or be rezed and go repair. No biggie. Lotro has like a minute or so of fear that goes with death. EQ2 has 2 minutes to where you have a debuff. Other games don't even have it now.
I remember a long time back in swg, if you died you had to go find your corpse and loot it. In EQ1 you had to go on corpse runs. I think wow still has corpse runs.
Now I don't want permadeath, but honestly the death penalties in most games are just so lacking you might as well remove them.
Death Penalties are good at the micro-level as a temporary effect. I hate EXP LOSS as a Death Penalty though, specially at higher levels...
Runes of Magic death penalty is designed so if you die, you go straight to the item shop and buy a gods redemption. Death Penalties are excellent ways for cash shops to profit of normal game playing since players WILL die at endgame...it all works out.
I liked the Guild Wars DP because it actually made the game harder.
COMPLETELY disagree. There is no death penalty in CO (none worth mentioning) and that's one of the reasons no one really tries that hard. If you die, you just respawn at the entrance and casually walk back. By the time you get there all your skills are cooled-down, you're completely healed, right back to it. In fact, it's easier to just run in, aggro everything, aoe, die, respawn, pick off the few things still alive.
At the same time, I don't like harsh DP. EXP debt in a grindy game is painful, Guild Wars dropping as low as 60% to your hp/energy is just brutal and unkind, etc. There should be a middle ground, but whatever that is, it needs to be there. Otherwise, there's no risk, and no one really gives a crap ;- That gets teams killed more often than when people are actually struggling to survive.
Aion's exp debt is fine with me. You lose about 3% I think it was (I haven't played in a while), you can pay to get about 2 of that 3% back. The cost is fairly high though, so even though the amount you lose is negligable, people are still very motivated to stay alive. WoW's isn't bad either, if only because having to run back to your body and paying to fix your gear is a time/money sink most people would rather avoid. It doesn't have to be exp/money you're losing, but it has to be something. You need to have something to lose.
As long as it's not like, your gear...or your sanity...cuz like, that's too much ;<
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I agree with the need of hard DP-s if Ya wanna real feeling, real adventure, real challenge and after that all - real feeling that ya have won, something or somebody. As mentioned everyone who has played ol' good PnP RPG they remember that.
Ya remember those Famous Last Words? Now-a-days it seems those stupid sloagns are now accepted rules of habit. Ya first at big dungeons mouth, all friends are on way, healer just start logging into a game... and ya bravely run into cave with thoughts: "That dragon caan't be such a big trouble, I try to hit only few times to detect how bad it is".
My first MMO was EQ1 and yes I remember those nakked corpse runs, to get ya eqp back from some deep dungeon was already adventure itself. Losing exp and not getting back in lvl-limited zone like Plane of Sky. But that makes ya learn game and ya skills and class in safer areas, not jumping into helluva places when ya knowingly below needed lvl. Building a balanced group, having at hands corpse summoners in raids, etc.
Now w/out this it's just hit and run - no bad feelings when ya die. And like also someone mentioned fast travel by death - same was in LOTRO - when ya at max lvl even that need to repair ya stuff isn't bad when ya have such amoun ts of money ya have nothing to do with them. And when ya die cuz ya fall, burn in lava or sunk in poison water - then ever ya eqp don't get damage.
So throwing away DP ia very bad in long terms. And as ya started that ya hate other ppl, don't wanna group and co-act with them and like 99% of time solo-play - then definitely ya have chhoosed wrong game, no MMOs for ya. Ta wanna single game with chatroom, and that is correct, find such and be happy, but don't ask devs make games more dumbed-down as they already are.
One choiche could be for whining soloists who wanna total throw-away of DP and game companies greedy enough to wanna grab their $$$ too into they pockets: Let those whiners mark themselfs like /No_Death_Penalty and thereafter they don't must suffocate under bad DP. There is no DP more at all. Only side-effect will be on their heads bright and shiny IDDQD !
Its beyond stoopid to expect tons of solo content and zero death penalties, in a massive MULTIPLAYER game. If you really want to solo, you should play solo games... why is that so hard for people to understand?
I'll tell you why, because they feel entitled, they actually feel its there right to tell you how to play YOUR game! I see it all the time, players come to forums and whinne and whinne about being disrupted during there PvE time.... but they are playing a PvP based game with death penalties!!!!
Why oh why would you buy a game that you know does not cater to your style of gameplay, then complain about it!!! Its like the illegal aliens here in America demanding there rights??!!
Aion is a perfect example of this, rifting is now completly pointless, they nerfed the heck out of it, all because of the crybabies, who couldnt see beyond themselves, to realize they are playing a PvP based game.
For players like that, words alone cannot express my loathing........
If you really want to solo, you should play solo games... why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because it's total nonsense, of course!
If you really want to socialise, you should go out with real friends rather than sitting alone at a computer - why is that so hard for people to understand?
If failure has no penalty, then success is no triumph.
Wise words from someone other than me - but very much match my opinion of current death penalties - which cater to the "don't challenge the player, they might cancel their sub if it's too hard" crowd.
Asheron's Call had a death penalty that would probably make most current players go running to Mummy, but it was challenging and taught you not to just charge in anywhere shouting and waving your nice shiny axe around. If you lost some stuff, the community was solid enough that you could almost always find a helping hand back to your corpse, or even some half-way decent gear to get you started again.
The future of MMOs lies in the increasing immersion and realism, moving through to accessible, massive environment Virtual reality (check out Tad Williams'character Orlando Gardiner in "Otherland" for a sneak peak into the gaming future!) Where is the fun if there is no challenge?
To me, death penalty bring a lil something more to a game. Lets take FFXIV for exemple. That game would gain tremendously from having a death penalty. It would help make those damn leves a bit less braindead.
DP doesn't need to be harsh, it just need to sting & make you be more thoughtful about what you're doing.
im sorry but i must disagree, i enjoy only two forms of death penalty the incredibly unforgiving and harsh (but the accompanying game must be realistic bordering on or being a virtual simulation, (eg. you can reshape the world build things out of the world say like ripping stone out of the ground and building something and you dont technicly own anything and if someone manages to kill you they can pick up your stuff drop your body off a cliff and do what they want). which i dont see happening anytime soon. (uo and games like it were very good low tech attempts at this though and as such the harsh death penalty fit there.) and by this i also mean you loose your character completely upon death.
the other type being the only penalty you have is that fact that you have to start from wherever you were before you started the chain of actions that lead to your demise (basicly you die you have to go back to the location you last *in essence* saved and you can be ressurected on the spot depending on if the game is magic based and what the story and laws of that universe are *physics wise*).
all attempts at in between have as far as i have found only been in mmo's and have thouroughly sucked, grinding to get back experiance debt is not fun and makes little sense, there is no in game way to explain this either it makes no sense in the lore of any of the universes it has been put in to even when there have been explanations of it.
take the degredation of equipment on death for example, it makes no sense why would your equipment degrade when you die instead of when you use it? i am one of the people where dieing alone means that i failed, and i find the grind boring and without meaning, just a pointless timesink meant to keep us paying for the game longer. risk vs reward has its place and that place isnt in every game sometimes we just want to do fun stuff and get cool stuff without much if any risk.
i understand you when you want death to mean something but not all games are made in a fashion were death can mean very much (aside from single player FPS and games such as UO) if you want death to mean something you want the sort of game i described in the first paragraph (or something similar maybe with character surviving but loss of anything being held *skills should never be diminished with death it makes little sense the same character came back why should he loose his capabilitys at least in my opinion*)
i was gonna end this with a its just a game and there shouldnt be a set penalty level for all games because each game needs its own penalty level based on the game itself or else it wont be fun type thing but ya know what ive spent a bit too much time writing this and feel like takeing a walk
Honestly, I really can't understand the mentality of anyone who would want death penalties removed completely. Why have to work for anything in the game at all? Why have HP? Simply blink at a mob and it will die, and you will win every piece of loot and every achievement in the game. After all, challenge and having to earn anything is, as you so eloquently put it, "frustrating and not fun."
Yes, I'd imagine it would be frustrating if I died so often that the death penalty bothered me in a game I liked. More incentive to get better and smarter, or find someone to team up with as far as I'm concerned. If anything, death penalties should be significantly harsher than they are on average in today's MMOs.
Yeah, death penalties should suck. So suck it up and don't be such a baby about it. The last thing games need to do is to encourage suicide because its more efficient travel or even being rewarding with a fun mini game. "Oh well I wiped the group, but atleast I can play this other game now!"
I wish I could add something constrructive but the rant has left me dumbfounded.
I completely disagree. OP, I'm afraid you come across as a selfish spoilt brat.
The argument that DPs get in the way of fun is old, tired and shallow. It relies on a definition of "fun" which only applies to particular people and even then maybe just at particular times (e.g. gaming at a party). Nothing to see here folks.
Maybe you guys should have been playing Vindictus? That seems pretty spot on for the mood of the night. F2P too.
Honestly, I really can't understand the mentality of anyone who would want death penalties removed completely. Why have to work for anything in the game at all? Why have HP? Simply blink at a mob and it will die, and you will win every piece of loot and every achievement in the game. After all, challenge and having to earn anything is, as you so eloquently put it, "frustrating and not fun."
Yes, I'd imagine it would be frustrating if I died so often that the death penalty bothered me in a game I liked. More incentive to get better and smarter, or find someone to team up with as far as I'm concerned. If anything, death penalties should be significantly harsher than they are on average in today's MMOs.
Obviously, if your character can die, there's going to be some sort of penalty no matter how light it is (even if it just means sitting on the ground unable to do anything until receiving a rez). I don't know about you, but I care a lot more about how my comrades are going to react to my death than some in-game penalty.
Anyone saying that a light death penalty takes all the pressure off of the player in a game like WoW, for example, hasn't been in a hardcore raiding guild. You're generally made to feel like a worthless piece of garbage by the entire raid if you die. You can't help out for the rest of the fight in most cases, you become a liability to the group, and they give you hell for it. IMO that is more than sufficient punishment for death. All adding an additional penalty does is make you sink more time into the game to make up for your loss of money/gear, etc. It adds nothing to the experience on its own.
Regardless, we can't just look at death penalties as an isolated concept, as if the same death penalty could work for every game. It depends on the mechanics, and especially the presence of others in whatever activity you're doing and game you are playing. However, as a general rule, I'd say that in group gaming, harsh penalties are pointless as they are only redundant upon social pressures, and in solo environments they unnecessarily hamper the fun of exploration, making one not want to play anymore.
If you really want to solo, you should play solo games... why is that so hard for people to understand?
Because it's total nonsense, of course!
If you really want to socialise, you should go out with real friends rather than sitting alone at a computer - why is that so hard for people to understand?
Players who want to play with their friends, wouldnt be solo then... would they....LOL?!
But, if you do just want to play with friends and not be bothered, then play a PvE based game. There are lots of them.
Simple enough, yes?
In case I seem off topic, It doenst matter much in PvE to have death penalties or not, but PvP based games most certainly do!
Maybe game companies should stop trying to please everyone with one game?
No one ever looks for a gae with a stiff DP and I've never heard anyone looking for a game with one. I am no more alert because of a DP than I would be simply because I'd rather the other guy dies.
It does discourage some and I can't imagine it serves as a plus for anyone looking for a new game.
A small dp is no biggie but there are some games that have such a severe DP that it costs the game players. Fo those that say good, go play ( insert hated games name here) are missing the point that players leaving is not good for anyone.
No one ever looks for a gae with a stiff DP and I've never heard anyone looking for a game with one. I am no more alert because of a DP than I would be simply because I'd rather the other guy dies.
It does discourage some and I can't imagine it serves as a plus for anyone looking for a new game.
A small dp is no biggie but there are some games that have such a severe DP that it costs the game players. Fo those that say good, go play ( insert hated games name here) are missing the point that players leaving is not good for anyone.
EVE Online is such a game, and has lasted for years with a very strong player base. Sure, you could call it a niche game, but the numbers dont lie. There are enough players out there to keep such a game going.
I strongly believe players today want it all, and I mean ALL, in one single game.... just aint gunna happen. You have too make choices, I understand many of you young players have little exp making tough choices, but its time you learned.
Comments
The most fun I ever had in MMOs...and I have played a LOT of them over the last 12 years... was EQ1,
and it had the worst death penalty corpse retrieval system ever.
Go Figure.
---------------------------
Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
oh, it's this thread again.
All die, so die well.
And you are obviously an idiot!
Number one rule of EvE: DON'T FLY WHAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE!
So if your getting all pissed off because you lost a ship, then you obviously broke that rule. Or you need to grow up.
Only for T1 ships is it worth it, even then you will lose ISK (eve's credits).
Lose a T2 or a T3 and you just lost potentially billions of ISK. Same with faction ships.
The more I read this site and Massively, the more I realize this genre is moving in the exact opposite direction from what I want.
Oh well, I guess I'll have to get by with niche games.
I really enjoy eve online, even with the death penalties, coz no other game lets me loose in such a huge universe, with such huge ships to command in such large pvp battles....
BUT EVEN I have to admit that the death penalty in this game is too harsh!
''never fly what you cant afford to loose'''
this credo doesnt help very much. = What if i got enough cash to buy and equip *2* cruisers.
I buy one and loose it to gate campers.(or whatever)
NOW i can buy another one and equip it with the cash left over from the first one. (remember, had enough money to buy 2 cruiser at the beginning)
BUT according to the logic of ''never fly what you cant afford to loose'': now i can not use that newly bought ship, coz i dont have enough cash to REPLACE THAT ONE TOO, if it gets destroyed!
So what do i do?
FARM asteroids, rats, or some agent missions(etc).
So, whether i have enough cash to replace the lost ship or not is KIND OF IRRELEVANT, since ultimatley i still have to pay for my losses just the same,,, THIS WORD OF WISDOM DOES NOT JUSTIFY/ OR REDUCE THE RISK OF THE DEATH PENALTY. (but it urges (IMO) caution and avoidance against ''hot headedness'' which is good)
SO, in my humble opinion the idea is:
''In eve online, your enemies are humans just like you, AND its *GONNA HURT LIKE HELL* if you loose a good ship, and even fancy words might be no cosolation to your predicament. Yupp, eve is hardcore, and if u can't take the heat, than you gotta hit the road. IF on the other hand your one of the select few that can embrace such a risk of (death) penalty, than welcome,as you have just found your new home:)
PS: From MY (*PERSONAL*) EXPERIENCE in EVE, only being in an UBER-GUILD can allivate your ''death penalty'' problems. (ship/equipment loss, plus loss of the pilot life)
Unfortunately for me..........i aint exactly one of the ppl who can take the heat (loose a beloved, well equipped ship and my captain), so i love eve, but sometimes she doesnt love me back, she's a harsh mistress.
Thats why, speaking for myself; id like some reduced death penalties in EVE, but i can also see/understand why the devs never gonna make such changes.
I prefer heavy penalties such as EXP loss and items staying on your corpse.
This provides a more exhilirating feeling during combat and those close call situations, increases the sense of accomplishment when you do survive a close call, provides a bigger sense of accomplishment for reaching higher levels, and encourages you to pay attention and play at your best.
Most games now days death penalties are nothing. You die, rez, or be rezed and go repair. No biggie. Lotro has like a minute or so of fear that goes with death. EQ2 has 2 minutes to where you have a debuff. Other games don't even have it now.
I remember a long time back in swg, if you died you had to go find your corpse and loot it. In EQ1 you had to go on corpse runs. I think wow still has corpse runs.
Now I don't want permadeath, but honestly the death penalties in most games are just so lacking you might as well remove them.
Death Penalties are good at the micro-level as a temporary effect. I hate EXP LOSS as a Death Penalty though, specially at higher levels...
Runes of Magic death penalty is designed so if you die, you go straight to the item shop and buy a gods redemption. Death Penalties are excellent ways for cash shops to profit of normal game playing since players WILL die at endgame...it all works out.
I liked the Guild Wars DP because it actually made the game harder.
COMPLETELY disagree. There is no death penalty in CO (none worth mentioning) and that's one of the reasons no one really tries that hard. If you die, you just respawn at the entrance and casually walk back. By the time you get there all your skills are cooled-down, you're completely healed, right back to it. In fact, it's easier to just run in, aggro everything, aoe, die, respawn, pick off the few things still alive.
At the same time, I don't like harsh DP. EXP debt in a grindy game is painful, Guild Wars dropping as low as 60% to your hp/energy is just brutal and unkind, etc. There should be a middle ground, but whatever that is, it needs to be there. Otherwise, there's no risk, and no one really gives a crap ;- That gets teams killed more often than when people are actually struggling to survive.
Aion's exp debt is fine with me. You lose about 3% I think it was (I haven't played in a while), you can pay to get about 2 of that 3% back. The cost is fairly high though, so even though the amount you lose is negligable, people are still very motivated to stay alive. WoW's isn't bad either, if only because having to run back to your body and paying to fix your gear is a time/money sink most people would rather avoid. It doesn't have to be exp/money you're losing, but it has to be something. You need to have something to lose.
As long as it's not like, your gear...or your sanity...cuz like, that's too much ;<
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I agree with the need of hard DP-s if Ya wanna real feeling, real adventure, real challenge and after that all - real feeling that ya have won, something or somebody. As mentioned everyone who has played ol' good PnP RPG they remember that.
Ya remember those Famous Last Words? Now-a-days it seems those stupid sloagns are now accepted rules of habit. Ya first at big dungeons mouth, all friends are on way, healer just start logging into a game... and ya bravely run into cave with thoughts: "That dragon caan't be such a big trouble, I try to hit only few times to detect how bad it is".
My first MMO was EQ1 and yes I remember those nakked corpse runs, to get ya eqp back from some deep dungeon was already adventure itself. Losing exp and not getting back in lvl-limited zone like Plane of Sky. But that makes ya learn game and ya skills and class in safer areas, not jumping into helluva places when ya knowingly below needed lvl. Building a balanced group, having at hands corpse summoners in raids, etc.
Now w/out this it's just hit and run - no bad feelings when ya die. And like also someone mentioned fast travel by death - same was in LOTRO - when ya at max lvl even that need to repair ya stuff isn't bad when ya have such amoun ts of money ya have nothing to do with them. And when ya die cuz ya fall, burn in lava or sunk in poison water - then ever ya eqp don't get damage.
So throwing away DP ia very bad in long terms. And as ya started that ya hate other ppl, don't wanna group and co-act with them and like 99% of time solo-play - then definitely ya have chhoosed wrong game, no MMOs for ya. Ta wanna single game with chatroom, and that is correct, find such and be happy, but don't ask devs make games more dumbed-down as they already are.
One choiche could be for whining soloists who wanna total throw-away of DP and game companies greedy enough to wanna grab their $$$ too into they pockets: Let those whiners mark themselfs like /No_Death_Penalty and thereafter they don't must suffocate under bad DP. There is no DP more at all. Only side-effect will be on their heads bright and shiny IDDQD !
Its beyond stoopid to expect tons of solo content and zero death penalties, in a massive MULTIPLAYER game. If you really want to solo, you should play solo games... why is that so hard for people to understand?
I'll tell you why, because they feel entitled, they actually feel its there right to tell you how to play YOUR game! I see it all the time, players come to forums and whinne and whinne about being disrupted during there PvE time.... but they are playing a PvP based game with death penalties!!!!
Why oh why would you buy a game that you know does not cater to your style of gameplay, then complain about it!!! Its like the illegal aliens here in America demanding there rights??!!
Aion is a perfect example of this, rifting is now completly pointless, they nerfed the heck out of it, all because of the crybabies, who couldnt see beyond themselves, to realize they are playing a PvP based game.
For players like that, words alone cannot express my loathing........
Because it's total nonsense, of course!
If you really want to socialise, you should go out with real friends rather than sitting alone at a computer - why is that so hard for people to understand?
If failure has no penalty, then success is no triumph.
Wise words from someone other than me - but very much match my opinion of current death penalties - which cater to the "don't challenge the player, they might cancel their sub if it's too hard" crowd.
Asheron's Call had a death penalty that would probably make most current players go running to Mummy, but it was challenging and taught you not to just charge in anywhere shouting and waving your nice shiny axe around. If you lost some stuff, the community was solid enough that you could almost always find a helping hand back to your corpse, or even some half-way decent gear to get you started again.
The future of MMOs lies in the increasing immersion and realism, moving through to accessible, massive environment Virtual reality (check out Tad Williams'character Orlando Gardiner in "Otherland" for a sneak peak into the gaming future!) Where is the fun if there is no challenge?
Completely, completely agree. I think not accomplishing something is failure enough.
Regards,
mszv
well then when you lose a game of golf somebody should come beat you over the head and steal your phone, because losing just isn't enough.
To me, death penalty bring a lil something more to a game. Lets take FFXIV for exemple. That game would gain tremendously from having a death penalty. It would help make those damn leves a bit less braindead.
DP doesn't need to be harsh, it just need to sting & make you be more thoughtful about what you're doing.
im sorry but i must disagree, i enjoy only two forms of death penalty the incredibly unforgiving and harsh (but the accompanying game must be realistic bordering on or being a virtual simulation, (eg. you can reshape the world build things out of the world say like ripping stone out of the ground and building something and you dont technicly own anything and if someone manages to kill you they can pick up your stuff drop your body off a cliff and do what they want). which i dont see happening anytime soon. (uo and games like it were very good low tech attempts at this though and as such the harsh death penalty fit there.) and by this i also mean you loose your character completely upon death.
the other type being the only penalty you have is that fact that you have to start from wherever you were before you started the chain of actions that lead to your demise (basicly you die you have to go back to the location you last *in essence* saved and you can be ressurected on the spot depending on if the game is magic based and what the story and laws of that universe are *physics wise*).
all attempts at in between have as far as i have found only been in mmo's and have thouroughly sucked, grinding to get back experiance debt is not fun and makes little sense, there is no in game way to explain this either it makes no sense in the lore of any of the universes it has been put in to even when there have been explanations of it.
take the degredation of equipment on death for example, it makes no sense why would your equipment degrade when you die instead of when you use it? i am one of the people where dieing alone means that i failed, and i find the grind boring and without meaning, just a pointless timesink meant to keep us paying for the game longer. risk vs reward has its place and that place isnt in every game sometimes we just want to do fun stuff and get cool stuff without much if any risk.
i understand you when you want death to mean something but not all games are made in a fashion were death can mean very much (aside from single player FPS and games such as UO) if you want death to mean something you want the sort of game i described in the first paragraph (or something similar maybe with character surviving but loss of anything being held *skills should never be diminished with death it makes little sense the same character came back why should he loose his capabilitys at least in my opinion*)
i was gonna end this with a its just a game and there shouldnt be a set penalty level for all games because each game needs its own penalty level based on the game itself or else it wont be fun type thing but ya know what ive spent a bit too much time writing this and feel like takeing a walk
*end rant thingy*
ITT: Many, many, MANY carebears.
Honestly, I really can't understand the mentality of anyone who would want death penalties removed completely. Why have to work for anything in the game at all? Why have HP? Simply blink at a mob and it will die, and you will win every piece of loot and every achievement in the game. After all, challenge and having to earn anything is, as you so eloquently put it, "frustrating and not fun."
Yes, I'd imagine it would be frustrating if I died so often that the death penalty bothered me in a game I liked. More incentive to get better and smarter, or find someone to team up with as far as I'm concerned. If anything, death penalties should be significantly harsher than they are on average in today's MMOs.
My blog:
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Strayfe/
Yeah, death penalties should suck. So suck it up and don't be such a baby about it. The last thing games need to do is to encourage suicide because its more efficient travel or even being rewarding with a fun mini game. "Oh well I wiped the group, but atleast I can play this other game now!"
I wish I could add something constrructive but the rant has left me dumbfounded.
I completely disagree. OP, I'm afraid you come across as a selfish spoilt brat.
The argument that DPs get in the way of fun is old, tired and shallow. It relies on a definition of "fun" which only applies to particular people and even then maybe just at particular times (e.g. gaming at a party). Nothing to see here folks.
Maybe you guys should have been playing Vindictus? That seems pretty spot on for the mood of the night. F2P too.
Obviously, if your character can die, there's going to be some sort of penalty no matter how light it is (even if it just means sitting on the ground unable to do anything until receiving a rez). I don't know about you, but I care a lot more about how my comrades are going to react to my death than some in-game penalty.
Anyone saying that a light death penalty takes all the pressure off of the player in a game like WoW, for example, hasn't been in a hardcore raiding guild. You're generally made to feel like a worthless piece of garbage by the entire raid if you die. You can't help out for the rest of the fight in most cases, you become a liability to the group, and they give you hell for it. IMO that is more than sufficient punishment for death. All adding an additional penalty does is make you sink more time into the game to make up for your loss of money/gear, etc. It adds nothing to the experience on its own.
Regardless, we can't just look at death penalties as an isolated concept, as if the same death penalty could work for every game. It depends on the mechanics, and especially the presence of others in whatever activity you're doing and game you are playing. However, as a general rule, I'd say that in group gaming, harsh penalties are pointless as they are only redundant upon social pressures, and in solo environments they unnecessarily hamper the fun of exploration, making one not want to play anymore.
I agree Death Penalties suck. <--period
No one ever looks for a gae with a stiff DP and I've never heard anyone looking for a game with one. I am no more alert because of a DP than I would be simply because I'd rather the other guy dies.
It does discourage some and I can't imagine it serves as a plus for anyone looking for a new game.
A small dp is no biggie but there are some games that have such a severe DP that it costs the game players. Fo those that say good, go play ( insert hated games name here) are missing the point that players leaving is not good for anyone.