Guys Vindictus, Global agenda and pocket legends aren't mmos. Their freaking diablo type lobby games. If we're going to count every co-rpg game as a mmo then I want Borderlands on that list. My pick is Eve... Which is pathetic since it's seven years old.
Then that's another reason for EVE to get it. EVE is seven years old but constantly working on their game. They are in it for the long haul. Unlike some other companies that look at their games as simply one among many products.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Guys Vindictus, Global agenda and pocket legends aren't mmos. Their freaking diablo type lobby games. If we're going to count every co-rpg game as a mmo then I want Borderlands on that list. My pick is Eve... Which is pathetic since it's seven years old.
Then that's another reason for EVE to get it. EVE is seven years old but constantly working on their game. They are in it for the long haul. Unlike some other companies that look at their games as simply one among many products.
Honestly eve should destroy these other games in this category. The entire game is innovative. A game shouldnt win because it chose to release a bunch of revamps in a theme in one expansion. That's freaking lame and the rest of them are lobby PSO clones. Hopefully the true mmogamers come through and vote this one home.
How is revamping quest zones innovative? All mmos do that. The only difference is Blizzard revamped all the original zones and waited to release them in one expansion instead of overtime like other games.
It is not what they did , it is how they did it. Go ahead name any MMO which destroyed and rebuild its own world at this scale? i will be waiting......
It's still only a quest hub revamp. Adding a world destruction cinematic intro to it doesn't change the fact that it's just a revamp. Revamps have been done since the early 2000's. Also the main mechanic in the revamp (phasing) is almost three years old now.
You still haven't named one MMO which did this. And no its not just a simple revamp. Its a new way of revamping and that is what is innovation, doing something new.
Innovation-
the introduction of something new
a new idea, method, or device
So Blizzard introduced a new idea, a method or a device of revamping which has existed for years. Like it or not but you can't twist the meaning of word innovation to suit your argument.
City of heroes revamped a lot of zones , the famous hollows , faultline , and other areas ..
while expanding and expanding , those revamps were as extensive as cataclysme in some sense even more .
So lets see , i got some parts revamped .. some area extended , hillsbrad destroyed alliance gain in barrens , what happened to warsong forest , anyway its a huge revamp , is it anything really really really new ...
No it isn´t , is class talents beter or worst ? hype says beter , well i experience worst ...
And honestly if less points to invest less options to choose from , even the last 5 levels ad what in the talent tree ?
Honestly i can play tommorow but i am not even enthousiastic about it .
EDit left for less and tons of freaking grammar errors even worst then i am used too , nevermind flame away . i am going to log off , and get some eye rest .
Guys Vindictus, Global agenda and pocket legends aren't mmos. Their freaking diablo type lobby games. If we're going to count every co-rpg game as a mmo then I want Borderlands on that list. My pick is Eve... Which is pathetic since it's seven years old.
Then that's another reason for EVE to get it. EVE is seven years old but constantly working on their game. They are in it for the long haul. Unlike some other companies that look at their games as simply one among many products.
Honestly eve should destroy these other games in this category. The entire game is innovative. A game shouldnt win because it chose to release a bunch of revamps in a theme in one expansion. That's freaking lame and the rest of them are lobby PSO clones. Hopefully the true mmogamers come through and vote this one home.
Oooh!! someone is angry tht WOW is getting votes rofl. And who are these TRUE mmogamers? and who gets to decide that? you? also you keep repeating yourself 'it is just a revamp' even though it was explained to you that 'its the execution of this revamp which is new, hence a new idea which means something new =innovation.
Originally posted by drake_hound
City of heroes revamped a lot of zones , the famous hollows , faultline , and other areas ..
COH didn't destroy its own world and rebuilt it. But nice try though.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I'm confused... For most innovative... they have the game that is not only the LEAST innovative MMORPG to ever come out, but the one that is essentially responsible for 6 years of MMORPG innovation stagnation?
How is World of Warcraft on this list? The game that hasn't had a unique or innovative feature in its entire run?
How can you put WoW on this list and not something truly innovative like Darkfall?
Wait... WoW is actually getting votes? HOW? Sweet god is there any justice left? Is this genre well and truly dead? Someone please tell me what Wow did.
How is revamping quest zones innovative? All mmos do that. The only difference is Blizzard revamped all the original zones and waited to release them in one expansion instead of overtime like other games.
It is not what they did , it is how they did it. Go ahead name any MMO which destroyed and rebuild its own world at this scale? i will be waiting......
I am a MMO gamer..with no allegiance or agendas. I have played eve for 6 years and have 3 accounts. So its not that i don't know about EVE and its innovation. But this list is more about 2010 and not about which game has been most innovative for past 6 to 7 years.
Also go easy on generalisations. Because i can assure you that its not just kiddies on loans who play WOW. Hell i have come across a lot of raging teenagers and more immature douchebags in EVE compared to any other MMO,but i don't know how is that relevant to this discussion?
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
How is revamping quest zones innovative? All mmos do that. The only difference is Blizzard revamped all the original zones and waited to release them in one expansion instead of overtime like other games.
It is not what they did , it is how they did it. Go ahead name any MMO which destroyed and rebuild its own world at this scale? i will be waiting......
EverQuest
EverQuest 2
Dark Age of Camelot
Ultima Online
and above all the others, more than WoW by far
Asheron's Call
Playing Everquest 2 for almost 4 years now. Never was the world shattered and rebuilt. Same goes for Everquest, DAOC and UO. I am not just talking about a simple revamp of quests here.
Yep, this was a missed opportunity for "none of the above" which would have gotten my vote. I tend to think that the category should really only apply to NEW MMOs but it doesn't actually say "Most Innovative New MMO" so I guess I'll let that slide. However, without a "none of the above" I don't think the poll results are going to be valid since people have indicated that they would have chosen that option if it had been available and are instead forced to choose another (and several times one based on hearsay rather than hands-on play).
How is revamping quest zones innovative? All mmos do that. The only difference is Blizzard revamped all the original zones and waited to release them in one expansion instead of overtime like other games.
It is not what they did , it is how they did it. Go ahead name any MMO which destroyed and rebuild its own world at this scale? i will be waiting......
EverQuest
EverQuest 2
Dark Age of Camelot
Ultima Online
and above all the others, more than WoW by far
Asheron's Call
Playing Everquest 2 for almost 4 years now. Never was the world shattered and rebuilt. Same goes for Everquest, DAOC and UO. I am not just talking about a simple revamp of quests here.
EQ2 WAS the Shattering. UO has been torn apart many times through various updates. Entire cities fall into ruin, mobs invade different areas, places stop being safe. DAoC had entire realms invaded by NPC monsters AND has had its old zones revamped TWICE, for FREE. So, sorry.
Regardless, revamping old zones just isn't innovative. "Doing it to such a scale has never been done before!" Even if that was true... how is that new or innovative? Of course a company with lots of money is going to be able to do more of the same, except... MORE of more of the same.
There's nothing INNOVATIVE about remaking quests.
INNOVATION is more along the lines of, new techs, things never done in games before. ALl the other games on the list have more of this than WoW does. WoW has never innovated. It's a crime Darkfall isn't on this list. The Mob AI, massive scale battles, and treasure hunting/dungeon mechanics brought in this expansion ARE truly innovative.
How is revamping quest zones innovative? All mmos do that. The only difference is Blizzard revamped all the original zones and waited to release them in one expansion instead of overtime like other games.
It is not what they did , it is how they did it. Go ahead name any MMO which destroyed and rebuild its own world at this scale? i will be waiting......
EverQuest
EverQuest 2
Dark Age of Camelot
Ultima Online
and above all the others, more than WoW by far
Asheron's Call
Playing Everquest 2 for almost 4 years now. Never was the world shattered and rebuilt. Same goes for Everquest, DAOC and UO. I am not just talking about a simple revamp of quests here.
EQ2 WAS the Shattering. UO has been torn apart many times through various updates. Entire cities fall into ruin, mobs invade different areas, places stop being safe. DAoC had entire realms invaded by NPC monsters AND has had its old zones revamped TWICE, for FREE. So, sorry.
Getting too desperate aren't ya? EQ2 was a completely new game. Cataclysm is not a new game its an expansion. that way you would consider GW2 shattering of GW? really?
UO was never torn apart at the scale of WOW, A lot of places get invaded in WAR too on daily basis but its not a revamp. I am talking about a complete and permanent change to the world. So i am sorry too that you have to make up your own stuff now.
Originally posted by Garvon3
There's nothing INNOVATIVE about remaking quests.
INNOVATION is more along the lines of, new techs, things never done in games before. ALl the other games on the list have more of this than WoW does. WoW has never innovated. It's a crime Darkfall isn't on this list. The Mob AI, massive scale battles, and treasure hunting/dungeon mechanics brought in this expansion ARE truly innovative.
Innovation is not just limited to tech, its about doing something new or introducing a new idea. Yes quests have been revamped before many times but you still failed to mention one MMO which permanently changed its world in order to revamp quests. That is new and that is why WOW is on list. Not the changes where only quests are revamped and landscape and surroundings remain same or even if there is a change its temporary.
none of these were all that worhy of any award in my personal opinion
EVE- havent like it since their own GMs got busted cheating and CCP faked giving a crap.
WoW- tried it..didnt like it..still dont like it...its not been inovative in years.
Global Agenda- given tht certain websites plugged this to no end I had high hopes for it and took a mighty fall
The rest...in a nutshell gave me that been there done that feel.
2011 is where we will see some real inovation when GW2 and SWtoR comes out. Im not a Star Wars game fan anymore thanks to the debacle that was done to SWG with the New Game Enhancement but SWtoR looks to have some invoton to it.
I picked EvE but not really any games on the list is really "innovative." I picked EvE because it's really the only MMO on that list thats in a leauge of its own and with the new avatars+incarna rolling out soon PLUS Dust 514 i think its becomeing one of the more innovative MMO's out there and is willing to take some risk.
WoW imo is one of the least innovative MMO's on the list, but maybe Cataclysm will introduce something new, who knows? I'll wait and see as ill prolly be resubbing in the comeing weeks.
Currently Playing: Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
I voted for WOW, because it might start a new trend. How many MMOS you know which destroy their own world to start all over again? don't be surprised if you see same thing happening in other MMOs in a year or so.
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
Who's idea was it to add "WoW" to the list of 'most innovative'? I'd vote ff14 for innovation before I go for WoW. Yeah it sucked, but it was different. Nothing about WoW is different. Zones get new textures and the landscape gets changed and suddenly it's innovative and turning the MMO world on its head? People are so easily impressed these days.
I voted Pocket Legends. I haven't played it, but it's one of the first - if not the first - MMOs that can be played on your phone. For what it is, it looks really good, too. THAT is innovation. It's probably not very productive...frankly the only time most of us probably get away from a game is going to and from work, and now that's gone too (not healthy I tell you!)...but it's still innovative.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
How is revamping quest zones innovative? All mmos do that. The only difference is Blizzard revamped all the original zones and waited to release them in one expansion instead of overtime like other games.
It is not what they did , it is how they did it. Go ahead name any MMO which destroyed and rebuild its own world at this scale? i will be waiting......
EverQuest
EverQuest 2
Dark Age of Camelot
Ultima Online
and above all the others, more than WoW by far
Asheron's Call
Playing Everquest 2 for almost 4 years now. Never was the world shattered and rebuilt. Same goes for Everquest, DAOC and UO. I am not just talking about a simple revamp of quests here.
EQ2 WAS the Shattering. UO has been torn apart many times through various updates. Entire cities fall into ruin, mobs invade different areas, places stop being safe. DAoC had entire realms invaded by NPC monsters AND has had its old zones revamped TWICE, for FREE. So, sorry.
Getting too desperate aren't ya? EQ2 was a completely new game. Cataclysm is not a new game its an expansion. that way you would consider GW2 shattering of GW? really?
UO was never torn apart at the scale of WOW, A lot of places get invaded in WAR too on daily basis but its not a revamp. I am talking about a complete and permanent change to the world. So i am sorry too that you have to make up your own stuff now.
Originally posted by Garvon3
There's nothing INNOVATIVE about remaking quests.
INNOVATION is more along the lines of, new techs, things never done in games before. ALl the other games on the list have more of this than WoW does. WoW has never innovated. It's a crime Darkfall isn't on this list. The Mob AI, massive scale battles, and treasure hunting/dungeon mechanics brought in this expansion ARE truly innovative.
Innovation is not just limited to tech, its about doing something new or introducing a new idea. Yes quests have been revamped before many times but you still failed to mention one MMO which permanently changed its world in order to revamp quests. That is new and that is why WOW is on list. Not the changes where only quests are revamped and landscape and surroundings remain same or even if there is a change its temporary.
As I ALREADY said. Dark Age of Camelot changed their world to revamp quests.
Ultima Onlien changed its world to advance the storyline
And Asheron's Call trumps them all put together. Every month their is a live event that changes the world, introduces new places and monsters, destroys old places, and the storyline is influenced by how the players react to this.
What WoW did is NOT innovative. The fact that they did it on "such a scale" has nothing to do with innovation and all to do with how big their budget is.
I voted for WOW, because it might start a new trend. How many MMOS you know which destroy their own world to start all over again? don't be surprised if you see same thing happening in other MMOs in a year or so.
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
You make it sound as if change was insignificant...
but the point remains, the revamp of quests is something new because it changes the landscape permanently. No other MMO has done this and yes scale of it matters. Revamp in other MMOS, yes.. permanent change? nope.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I voted for WOW, because it might start a new trend. How many MMOS you know which destroy their own world to start all over again? don't be surprised if you see same thing happening in other MMOs in a year or so.
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
You make it sound as if change was insignificant...
but the point remains, the revamp of quests is something new because it changes the landscape permanently. No other MMO has done this and yes scale of it matters. Revamp in other MMOS, yes.. permanent change? nope.
You can close you eyes and say "no no no it didn't happen!" and endlessly defend your WoW all you want, but I've listed several games that have entirely redone their worlds, permanently changed things, and then some.
I voted for WOW, because it might start a new trend. How many MMOS you know which destroy their own world to start all over again? don't be surprised if you see same thing happening in other MMOs in a year or so.
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
You make it sound as if change was insignificant...
but the point remains, the revamp of quests is something new because it changes the landscape permanently. No other MMO has done this and yes scale of it matters. Revamp in other MMOS, yes.. permanent change? nope.
You can close you eyes and say "no no no it didn't happen!" and endlessly defend your WoW all you want, but I've listed several games that have entirely redone their worlds, permanently changed things, and then some.
Nope you are confusing dynamic changes with permanent changes. You didn't prove anything. We are talking about one sole big event which changes landscape permanently. DAOC, UO, AC never had a permanent change. And yes scale matters if not we should add Fallen Earth to this list too since they recently nuked a small town called Boneclaw to rebuild it.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I wonder how many of you WoW haters have even played the game since the Shattering hit the servers. Come back after you've experienced...lets say level 1-20 Undead - namely Silverpine, and tell me that what you experienced isn't innovative. I've NEVER seen a revamp like that. EVER.
I just think you haters like to hate because its the big guy on campus and because it's "cool" to hate WoW or something. The game is FUN. That's all I need. Does it have the depth I crave that only FFXI ever gave me? No. But I still appreciate the game for being fun and sucking me in.
Anyway, my second choice would have been Eve, even though I find Eve lacking in the FUN department, but I looked at what it has done THIS year and didn't really see any innovation. If walking on stations had been patched this year I think this would be a different story.
I voted for WOW, because it might start a new trend. How many MMOS you know which destroy their own world to start all over again? don't be surprised if you see same thing happening in other MMOs in a year or so.
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
You make it sound as if change was insignificant...
but the point remains, the revamp of quests is something new because it changes the landscape permanently. No other MMO has done this and yes scale of it matters. Revamp in other MMOS, yes.. permanent change? nope.
You can close you eyes and say "no no no it didn't happen!" and endlessly defend your WoW all you want, but I've listed several games that have entirely redone their worlds, permanently changed things, and then some.
Nope you are confusing dynamic changes with permanent changes. No... no I'm not. But even if I were, dynamic changes are far more innovative/impressive than one "big" change. You didn't prove anything. We are talking about one sole big event which changes landscape permanently. DAOC, UO, AC never had a permanent change. Yes, they did indeed. And yes scale matters if not we should add Fallen Earth to this list too since they recently nuked a small town called Boneclaw to rebuild it.
I think you're still confused as to what "innovation" is, if you think scale is as important as it is. EverQuest was the first game to start releasing new continents each expansion, but I guess Dark Age of Camelot was far more innovative because they released more and BIGGER continents with its first expansion than EQ did. That's how it works right? If it's bigger, then that means, it's new and exciting? Oh wait... no that's not what it means...
You seem to have no idea what you're talking about, it's highly unlikely you played AC, DAoC, or UO if you're honestly trying to argue there were never any permenant changes to the game world. A town isn't just "burned down" for a day, and back the next. The town is gone, and not coming back.
As for revamping old zones.. DAoC actually just did that AGAIN a year ago. They went back to the old world, the world the game launched with in 2001 and redid EVERY SINGLE ZONE. Not just SOME zones, EVERY zone.
I voted for WOW, because it might start a new trend. How many MMOS you know which destroy their own world to start all over again? don't be surprised if you see same thing happening in other MMOs in a year or so.
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
You make it sound as if change was insignificant...
but the point remains, the revamp of quests is something new because it changes the landscape permanently. No other MMO has done this and yes scale of it matters. Revamp in other MMOS, yes.. permanent change? nope.
You can close you eyes and say "no no no it didn't happen!" and endlessly defend your WoW all you want, but I've listed several games that have entirely redone their worlds, permanently changed things, and then some.
Nope you are confusing dynamic changes with permanent changes. No... no I'm not. But even if I were, dynamic changes are far more innovative/impressive than one "big" change. You didn't prove anything. We are talking about one sole big event which changes landscape permanently. DAOC, UO, AC never had a permanent change. Yes, they did indeed. And yes scale matters if not we should add Fallen Earth to this list too since they recently nuked a small town called Boneclaw to rebuild it.
I think you're still confused as to what "innovation" is, if you think scale is as important as it is. EverQuest was the first game to start releasing new continents each expansion, but I guess Dark Age of Camelot was far more innovative because they released more and BIGGER continents with its first expansion than EQ did. That's how it works right? If it's bigger, then that means, it's new and exciting? Oh wait... no that's not what it means...
You seem to have no idea what you're talking about, it's highly unlikely you played AC, DAoC, or UO if you're honestly trying to argue there were never any permenant changes to the game world. A town isn't just "burned down" for a day, and back the next. The town is gone, and not coming back.
As for revamping old zones.. DAoC actually just did that a year ago. They went back to the old world, the world the game launched with in 2001 and redid EVERY SINGLE ZONE. Not just SOME zones, EVERY zone.
WoW did NOT innovate.
I played the revamp of DAOC and it still felt like DAOC. WoW though..it feels like WoW 2. Oh, lets not forget new Music in each zone, new voiceovers, new storylines, the revamp of talent trees has completely changed how classes play, it's insane and its FUN as hell. I log into DAOC and I still have moments of boredom and wishful thinking that one day they update the UI and movement controls and more stinking story!
I voted for WOW, because it might start a new trend. How many MMOS you know which destroy their own world to start all over again? don't be surprised if you see same thing happening in other MMOs in a year or so.
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
You make it sound as if change was insignificant...
but the point remains, the revamp of quests is something new because it changes the landscape permanently. No other MMO has done this and yes scale of it matters. Revamp in other MMOS, yes.. permanent change? nope.
It doesn't amtter how significant it was, the category was MOST INNOVATIVE. There's nothing innovative about zone revamps, and nothing WOW did changes that, regardless of scope. Scale (to sue your word) of zone revamp isn't innovative.
And as for how significant, in terms of total zones changed; it wasn't even half, which was my point. You said the entire world was destoryed and remade . . . which didn't happen.
I voted for WOW, because it might start a new trend. How many MMOS you know which destroy their own world to start all over again? don't be surprised if you see same thing happening in other MMOs in a year or so.
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
You make it sound as if change was insignificant...
but the point remains, the revamp of quests is something new because it changes the landscape permanently. No other MMO has done this and yes scale of it matters. Revamp in other MMOS, yes.. permanent change? nope.
You can close you eyes and say "no no no it didn't happen!" and endlessly defend your WoW all you want, but I've listed several games that have entirely redone their worlds, permanently changed things, and then some.
Nope you are confusing dynamic changes with permanent changes. No... no I'm not. But even if I were, dynamic changes are far more innovative/impressive than one "big" change. You didn't prove anything. We are talking about one sole big event which changes landscape permanently. DAOC, UO, AC never had a permanent change. Yes, they did indeed. And yes scale matters if not we should add Fallen Earth to this list too since they recently nuked a small town called Boneclaw to rebuild it.
I think you're still confused as to what "innovation" is, if you think scale is as important as it is. EverQuest was the first game to start releasing new continents each expansion, but I guess Dark Age of Camelot was far more innovative because they released more and BIGGER continents with its first expansion than EQ did. That's how it works right? If it's bigger, then that means, it's new and exciting? Oh wait... no that's not what it means...
You seem to have no idea what you're talking about, it's highly unlikely you played AC, DAoC, or UO if you're honestly trying to argue there were never any permenant changes to the game world. A town isn't just "burned down" for a day, and back the next. The town is gone, and not coming back.
As for revamping old zones.. DAoC actually just did that a year ago. They went back to the old world, the world the game launched with in 2001 and redid EVERY SINGLE ZONE. Not just SOME zones, EVERY zone.
WoW did NOT innovate.
I played the revamp of DAOC and it still felt like DAOC. WoW though..it feels like WoW 2. Oh, lets not forget new Music in each zone, new voiceovers, new storylines, the revamp of talent trees has completely changed how classes play, it's insane and its FUN as hell. I log into DAOC and I still have moments of boredom and wishful thinking that one day they update the UI and movement controls and more stinking story!
Proves you don't know much about DAoC... The UI is entirely customizable (it had this before WoW), and the keys are entirely remappable. There are at least 5 different pre set loadouts too, for controls. Not to mention, DAoC is 10 years old and isn't run by 200 developers, expecting it to have massive multi million dollar expansions is a bit daft.
As for WoW redoing talent trees... umm, that's not really innovative at all. Rebalancing classes is something almost all MMOs do in other expansions and through the course of the game.
As for WoW "feeling" like WoW 2, well now we can't discuss that at all, because "feeling" isn't objective.
Revamping zones isn't new. It's not innovative. The fact that WoW is on this list and not Darkfall is just a disgrace, but it also is a good commentary on just where the MMO genre is in this day and age.
We can have indie games with mob AI advanced far beyond anything in any MMORPG, real time battles with FPS style gameplay with 500+ players at once, naval combat and treasure hunting, and it won't even show up on a list. WoW revamps half of their old zones (something most games do for free) and its up for most innovative. Great.
Comments
Then that's another reason for EVE to get it. EVE is seven years old but constantly working on their game. They are in it for the long haul. Unlike some other companies that look at their games as simply one among many products.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Then that's another reason for EVE to get it. EVE is seven years old but constantly working on their game. They are in it for the long haul. Unlike some other companies that look at their games as simply one among many products.
Honestly eve should destroy these other games in this category. The entire game is innovative. A game shouldnt win because it chose to release a bunch of revamps in a theme in one expansion. That's freaking lame and the rest of them are lobby PSO clones. Hopefully the true mmogamers come through and vote this one home.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
City of heroes revamped a lot of zones , the famous hollows , faultline , and other areas ..
while expanding and expanding , those revamps were as extensive as cataclysme in some sense even more .
So lets see , i got some parts revamped .. some area extended , hillsbrad destroyed alliance gain in barrens , what happened to warsong forest , anyway its a huge revamp , is it anything really really really new ...
No it isn´t , is class talents beter or worst ? hype says beter , well i experience worst ...
And honestly if less points to invest less options to choose from , even the last 5 levels ad what in the talent tree ?
Honestly i can play tommorow but i am not even enthousiastic about it .
EDit left for less and tons of freaking grammar errors even worst then i am used too , nevermind flame away . i am going to log off , and get some eye rest .
Oooh!! someone is angry tht WOW is getting votes rofl. And who are these TRUE mmogamers? and who gets to decide that? you? also you keep repeating yourself 'it is just a revamp' even though it was explained to you that 'its the execution of this revamp which is new, hence a new idea which means something new =innovation.
COH didn't destroy its own world and rebuilt it. But nice try though.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I'm confused... For most innovative... they have the game that is not only the LEAST innovative MMORPG to ever come out, but the one that is essentially responsible for 6 years of MMORPG innovation stagnation?
How is World of Warcraft on this list? The game that hasn't had a unique or innovative feature in its entire run?
How can you put WoW on this list and not something truly innovative like Darkfall?
Wait... WoW is actually getting votes? HOW? Sweet god is there any justice left? Is this genre well and truly dead? Someone please tell me what Wow did.
EverQuest
EverQuest 2
Dark Age of Camelot
Ultima Online
and above all the others, more than WoW by far
Asheron's Call
Just curious when third person shooters became first person shooters? I guess to many it doesn't matter but I can't stand 3rd person games....
I am a MMO gamer..with no allegiance or agendas. I have played eve for 6 years and have 3 accounts. So its not that i don't know about EVE and its innovation. But this list is more about 2010 and not about which game has been most innovative for past 6 to 7 years.
Also go easy on generalisations. Because i can assure you that its not just kiddies on loans who play WOW. Hell i have come across a lot of raging teenagers and more immature douchebags in EVE compared to any other MMO,but i don't know how is that relevant to this discussion?
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Playing Everquest 2 for almost 4 years now. Never was the world shattered and rebuilt. Same goes for Everquest, DAOC and UO. I am not just talking about a simple revamp of quests here.
Bite Me
Yep, this was a missed opportunity for "none of the above" which would have gotten my vote. I tend to think that the category should really only apply to NEW MMOs but it doesn't actually say "Most Innovative New MMO" so I guess I'll let that slide. However, without a "none of the above" I don't think the poll results are going to be valid since people have indicated that they would have chosen that option if it had been available and are instead forced to choose another (and several times one based on hearsay rather than hands-on play).
EQ2 WAS the Shattering. UO has been torn apart many times through various updates. Entire cities fall into ruin, mobs invade different areas, places stop being safe. DAoC had entire realms invaded by NPC monsters AND has had its old zones revamped TWICE, for FREE. So, sorry.
Regardless, revamping old zones just isn't innovative. "Doing it to such a scale has never been done before!" Even if that was true... how is that new or innovative? Of course a company with lots of money is going to be able to do more of the same, except... MORE of more of the same.
There's nothing INNOVATIVE about remaking quests.
INNOVATION is more along the lines of, new techs, things never done in games before. ALl the other games on the list have more of this than WoW does. WoW has never innovated. It's a crime Darkfall isn't on this list. The Mob AI, massive scale battles, and treasure hunting/dungeon mechanics brought in this expansion ARE truly innovative.
Getting too desperate aren't ya? EQ2 was a completely new game. Cataclysm is not a new game its an expansion. that way you would consider GW2 shattering of GW? really?
UO was never torn apart at the scale of WOW, A lot of places get invaded in WAR too on daily basis but its not a revamp. I am talking about a complete and permanent change to the world. So i am sorry too that you have to make up your own stuff now.
Innovation is not just limited to tech, its about doing something new or introducing a new idea. Yes quests have been revamped before many times but you still failed to mention one MMO which permanently changed its world in order to revamp quests. That is new and that is why WOW is on list. Not the changes where only quests are revamped and landscape and surroundings remain same or even if there is a change its temporary.
Bite Me
none of these were all that worhy of any award in my personal opinion
EVE- havent like it since their own GMs got busted cheating and CCP faked giving a crap.
WoW- tried it..didnt like it..still dont like it...its not been inovative in years.
Global Agenda- given tht certain websites plugged this to no end I had high hopes for it and took a mighty fall
The rest...in a nutshell gave me that been there done that feel.
2011 is where we will see some real inovation when GW2 and SWtoR comes out. Im not a Star Wars game fan anymore thanks to the debacle that was done to SWG with the New Game Enhancement but SWtoR looks to have some invoton to it.
I picked EvE but not really any games on the list is really "innovative." I picked EvE because it's really the only MMO on that list thats in a leauge of its own and with the new avatars+incarna rolling out soon PLUS Dust 514 i think its becomeing one of the more innovative MMO's out there and is willing to take some risk.
WoW imo is one of the least innovative MMO's on the list, but maybe Cataclysm will introduce something new, who knows? I'll wait and see as ill prolly be resubbing in the comeing weeks.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
WOW did not destrroy their world; they revamped SOME zones. What changed in Outlands . . . nothing. What changed in Northrend . . . nothing. Thats half of the WOW world right there and nothing was destroy and rebuilt. As for Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms approximately 40% of the zones were revamped, so again . . . the entire world was not destroyed and rebuilt. A couple of cities were destroyed and rebuilt.
In other words, nothing new or innovative. Zone revamps have been done before. Adding a cinematic doesn't make it innovative either.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Who's idea was it to add "WoW" to the list of 'most innovative'? I'd vote ff14 for innovation before I go for WoW. Yeah it sucked, but it was different. Nothing about WoW is different. Zones get new textures and the landscape gets changed and suddenly it's innovative and turning the MMO world on its head? People are so easily impressed these days.
I voted Pocket Legends. I haven't played it, but it's one of the first - if not the first - MMOs that can be played on your phone. For what it is, it looks really good, too. THAT is innovation. It's probably not very productive...frankly the only time most of us probably get away from a game is going to and from work, and now that's gone too (not healthy I tell you!)...but it's still innovative.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
As I ALREADY said. Dark Age of Camelot changed their world to revamp quests.
Ultima Onlien changed its world to advance the storyline
And Asheron's Call trumps them all put together. Every month their is a live event that changes the world, introduces new places and monsters, destroys old places, and the storyline is influenced by how the players react to this.
What WoW did is NOT innovative. The fact that they did it on "such a scale" has nothing to do with innovation and all to do with how big their budget is.
You make it sound as if change was insignificant...
http://www.wowwiki.com/Cataclysm_map_comparison
but the point remains, the revamp of quests is something new because it changes the landscape permanently. No other MMO has done this and yes scale of it matters. Revamp in other MMOS, yes.. permanent change? nope.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
You can close you eyes and say "no no no it didn't happen!" and endlessly defend your WoW all you want, but I've listed several games that have entirely redone their worlds, permanently changed things, and then some.
Nope you are confusing dynamic changes with permanent changes. You didn't prove anything. We are talking about one sole big event which changes landscape permanently. DAOC, UO, AC never had a permanent change. And yes scale matters if not we should add Fallen Earth to this list too since they recently nuked a small town called Boneclaw to rebuild it.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I wonder how many of you WoW haters have even played the game since the Shattering hit the servers. Come back after you've experienced...lets say level 1-20 Undead - namely Silverpine, and tell me that what you experienced isn't innovative. I've NEVER seen a revamp like that. EVER.
I just think you haters like to hate because its the big guy on campus and because it's "cool" to hate WoW or something. The game is FUN. That's all I need. Does it have the depth I crave that only FFXI ever gave me? No. But I still appreciate the game for being fun and sucking me in.
Anyway, my second choice would have been Eve, even though I find Eve lacking in the FUN department, but I looked at what it has done THIS year and didn't really see any innovation. If walking on stations had been patched this year I think this would be a different story.
I think you're still confused as to what "innovation" is, if you think scale is as important as it is. EverQuest was the first game to start releasing new continents each expansion, but I guess Dark Age of Camelot was far more innovative because they released more and BIGGER continents with its first expansion than EQ did. That's how it works right? If it's bigger, then that means, it's new and exciting? Oh wait... no that's not what it means...
You seem to have no idea what you're talking about, it's highly unlikely you played AC, DAoC, or UO if you're honestly trying to argue there were never any permenant changes to the game world. A town isn't just "burned down" for a day, and back the next. The town is gone, and not coming back.
As for revamping old zones.. DAoC actually just did that AGAIN a year ago. They went back to the old world, the world the game launched with in 2001 and redid EVERY SINGLE ZONE. Not just SOME zones, EVERY zone.
WoW did NOT innovate.
I played the revamp of DAOC and it still felt like DAOC. WoW though..it feels like WoW 2. Oh, lets not forget new Music in each zone, new voiceovers, new storylines, the revamp of talent trees has completely changed how classes play, it's insane and its FUN as hell. I log into DAOC and I still have moments of boredom and wishful thinking that one day they update the UI and movement controls and more stinking story!
It doesn't amtter how significant it was, the category was MOST INNOVATIVE. There's nothing innovative about zone revamps, and nothing WOW did changes that, regardless of scope. Scale (to sue your word) of zone revamp isn't innovative.
And as for how significant, in terms of total zones changed; it wasn't even half, which was my point. You said the entire world was destoryed and remade . . . which didn't happen.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Proves you don't know much about DAoC... The UI is entirely customizable (it had this before WoW), and the keys are entirely remappable. There are at least 5 different pre set loadouts too, for controls. Not to mention, DAoC is 10 years old and isn't run by 200 developers, expecting it to have massive multi million dollar expansions is a bit daft.
As for WoW redoing talent trees... umm, that's not really innovative at all. Rebalancing classes is something almost all MMOs do in other expansions and through the course of the game.
As for WoW "feeling" like WoW 2, well now we can't discuss that at all, because "feeling" isn't objective.
Revamping zones isn't new. It's not innovative. The fact that WoW is on this list and not Darkfall is just a disgrace, but it also is a good commentary on just where the MMO genre is in this day and age.
We can have indie games with mob AI advanced far beyond anything in any MMORPG, real time battles with FPS style gameplay with 500+ players at once, naval combat and treasure hunting, and it won't even show up on a list. WoW revamps half of their old zones (something most games do for free) and its up for most innovative. Great.