First off. Age of Conan and SWG are that way -->. Im going to be a nice guy and warm you that last I heard those games arent doing the very well, and are arguably not that fun currently. Play at your won risk. /Sarcasm off
Really though, if you read ANY news websites about Cataclysm you would have been overwhelmed at the mass amount of things that have been revised.
1.Politics dont work in this game, and are not that fun in the games that do have it.
2. Same for player housing.
3. World PVP that matter? in what way? Objectives? Lets see theres a WHOLE zone dedicated to PVP that have objectives that need to be completed. Then theres dailies that include PVP (WotLK had them at least) as well as achievements, ranks, and rewards for said achievements.
4.Same for Player cities.
Sounds like you want to play a City Builder SIm. I hear Cities XL is pretty good
YOU might think politics are not fun. Speak for yourself on that matter. Same goes for you opinion about Player Housings. These are features I have played in other games, and I can assure I find it quite thrilling to attack other guilds cities/towers/etc during late hrs at night.
If you are thinking about Wintergrasp, I guess anyone but you will say it is a massive fail. I can't remember last time I even bothered thinking about WG. Cause it just was not worth it. The old "pvp" objectives in EPL was utterly joke. And still are. It is only there to add 1 more quest in the Loremaster grind. Bah. Then you talk about pvp quests in WOTLK... well, try find anyone in Northrend. To fill up your 20 kills needed for one them quests your apparently refer to. It is not worth it, so people are not around. Which is fail. The 1-80 brackets will now be even more dead than ever before. Heck, I barely saw anyone playing Worgen when I logged on earlier this morning (packed with Goblins, but you know the corrupt Blizzard is catering their favored side as usual, thus gave more love to Goblin than Worgen).
Not impressed at all. Very dissapointing expansion from what I can see. I seriously expected alot more than some minor pixel upgrades. I feel robbed. But their marketing campaing sure caught me; I bought the digital download from Battlenet long time ago... When I still thought that Cataclysm would be a huge change. My bad. I cancelled my account a week ago as I did not see any point in playing the game just for the addiction rather than the thrill. Subscription runs out tomorrow.
YOU might think politics are not fun. Speak for yourself on that matter. Same goes for you opinion about Player Housings. These are features I have played in other games, and I can assure I find it quite thrilling to attack other guilds cities/towers/etc during late hrs at night.
If you are thinking about Wintergrasp, I guess anyone but you will say it is a massive fail. I can't remember last time I even bothered thinking about WG. Cause it just was not worth it. The old "pvp" objectives in EPL was utterly joke. And still are. It is only there to add 1 more quest in the Loremaster grind. Bah. Then you talk about pvp quests in WOTLK... well, try find anyone in Northrend. To fill up your 20 kills needed for one them quests your apparently refer to. It is not worth it, so people are not around. Which is fail. The 1-80 brackets will now be even more dead than ever before. Heck, I barely saw anyone playing Worgen when I logged on earlier this morning (packed with Goblins, but you know the corrupt Blizzard is catering their favored side as usual, thus gave more love to Goblin than Worgen).
Not impressed at all. Very dissapointing expansion from what I can see. I seriously expected alot more than some minor pixel upgrades. I feel robbed. But their marketing campaing sure caught me; I bought the digital download from Battlenet long time ago... When I still thought that Cataclysm would be a huge change. My bad. I cancelled my account a week ago as I did not see any point in playing the game just for the addiction rather than the thrill. Subscription runs out tomorrow.
I deeply regret buying this expansion.
I think the feature list was available before launch... somewhere on the Internets. I think you can also cancel a pre-order, so I would have cancelled it long time ago if I were you, knowing your account expired 24 hours after its launch date.
I don't think you had time to enjoy most of its new 'features' as well. May they seem small to some is debatable.
Sarcasm aside, what would you expect them to do different? Ask Mythic about game changing expansions and let them tell you the story of Trials of Atlantis the destroyed DAOC as we knew it.
I appreciate the fact Blizzard doesn't pull any surprises and sticks to a formula that works for its players.
No new content. more of the same...really.
Then tell me about the entire new zone of Azshara. Tell me about the hundreds of NEW quests I have completed.
Further:
- stuff
Lots of things. Why not some open world endgame for a change? Phasing can already take care of the potential issues.
Why not make "trash" mobs matter more? Why is the game always so boss-centric?
How about an event designed to be random and have many potential objectives to do.
Path of the Titans sounded cool too.
They could also have a new take on WAR's PQ system. They could have built the entire expansion around that concept.
Now it's just:
- More zones.. yay
- More quests... yay
- More raids... yay
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Again, you are ignoring some major features, purposely..? You used to write a lot of good informative posts, Hyanmen. You can do better in your rethoric.
Originally posted by Hyanmen Originally posted by Elidien
Sarcasm aside, what would you expect them to do different? Ask Mythic about game changing expansions and let them tell you the story of Trials of Atlantis the destroyed DAOC as we knew it. I appreciate the fact Blizzard doesn't pull any surprises and sticks to a formula that works for its players. No new content. more of the same...really. Then tell me about the entire new zone of Azshara. Tell me about the hundreds of NEW quests I have completed. Further: - stuff
Lots of things. Why not some open world endgame for a change? Phasing can already take care of the potential issues. Why not make "trash" mobs matter more? Why is the game always so boss-centric? How about an event designed to be random and have many potential objectives to do. Path of the Titans sounded cool too. They could also have a new take on WAR's PQ system. They could have built the entire expansion around that concept. Now it's just: - More zones.. yay - More quests... yay - More raids... yay - more achievements
Again, you are ignoring some major features, purposely..? You used to write a lot of good informative posts, Hyanmen. You can do better in your rethoric.
Sorry about that. I tried to think up some, but I don't see anything in that list worth mentioning. Feel free to correct me.
Ah yes, achievements....!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Again, you are ignoring some major features, purposely..? You used to write a lot of good informative posts, Hyanmen. You can do better in your rethoric.
Sorry about that. I tried to think up some, but I don't see anything in that list worth mentioning. Feel free to correct me.
Ah yes, achievements....!
It seems that you want a game that is more about innovation, genre changing or next generation.
WOW is not. WOW is about pleasing its 12 million players and to do that Blizzard is not going to change what they do and how they do it.
Until something happens (massive subscription loss, revenue loss, etc...), Blizzard is not going to do anything different.
The goal of this expansion is clearly to please the players currently playing and with the changes to the old world and leveling, make WOW exciting for new players. personally I think this is more of a sideways expansion than a tiered one. By that I mean, I think Blizzard wants players to do things like create alts, spend more time exploring and such and not just focus on character advancement of their main (oh look I got level 200 gear, now 219, now 245, now 264). To me its quite a risk and it will be interesting to see how it works. If it works well, maybe more games will go to an expansion model where the focus isn't always on just character improvement.
^^ This, exactly. Why do you think Blizzard only added 5 levels to the cap? SO, they can keep the casual gamer on the gearscore treadmill. You'll notice a trend in expansions from Blizzard; vanilla level cap was 40, BC level cap was 60 - a 20 level change, WotLK level cap was 70 - a 10 level change, Cataclysm level cap is 85 - a 5 level change. Blizzard has found the sweet spot for their casual gamer fan base and is doing just enought to keep them churning along on the gearscore grind.
They add guild leveling and archeology to keep the sideways (horizontal) growth happening. Open up a couple of more race/class combos and it is alt heaven; absolutely more ways to milk the same old ground. Nothing new or innovative, just more of the same and the zombie-like masses eat it up; big props to Blizzard to keeping the cash cow producing.
It seems that you want a game that is more about innovation, genre changing or next generation.
(oh look I got level 200 gear, now 219, now 245, now 264).
Oh yeah, this is exactly what I mean. It is so predictable. You always know what's going to happen.
The great "unexpected" twist in Cataclysm was.... that they didn't add as many new zones, but changed the existing zones.
Gasp.
Either way it doesn't really matter. It's just fun to point these things out from time to time. They will do what makes the most profit, and we will like it.
EDIT: Ah yes, only 5 level increase instead of 10. They took out the big guns in this one for sure!
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
wow is still wow...like sayd b-four.....its an expansion, not a new game.
Good expansions, traditionally, add some good new ideas to the game. New mechanics or features. It doesn't make it a "new game". Many MMOs have added housing as part of an expansion. The excuse "Its not a new game, why would they do something new?" doesn't fly.
Then again, this is WoW we're talking about people. The game that has not had one single unique or innovative feature to its name in a 5 year run. Why would you expect one now?
We don't expect an expansion to radically change the game, but it should add new features. The new guild levels and rated battlegrounds are a good start, but there's so much that Blizzard could be doing that would improve their game but don't because they're terrified of jostling the status quo too much, for obvious reasons.
Some things that should be in the game, but aren't:
Housing.
Player owned shops/structures.
World PvP with siege warfare and dynamic control points.
Mounted combat.
Mounts that are more than just a model change and speed boost.
A crafting/gathering system with at least some depth.
Decent character creation.
What's most annoying is that they have a solid base to implement all of this.
Super Mario Bros. was also working just fine. Should have ended it there.
Comparing MMO to a single player console game? really?
If it is not broken, don't fix it.
Tell me why it doesn't apply?
Gaming is a part of the experience industry. People are looking for experiences. Repeating the same game for 5 years is not an experience after the 100th time you've done it. New and different experiences keeps it fresh.
Why does Blizzard keep releasing raids with different bosses and objectives? They were working just fine, why change anything?
I'm saying an expansion pack should take it much further. Otherwise the game just becomes stale. Just like playing the same Super Mario Bros. in different environment becomes stale after the 10th incarnation.
People don't seem to understand this simple concept.
Something along the lines of 10-12 million do not understand this. If 10 miilion suddenly agreed with you folks...then Blizz would change things. FYI they are making another MMO, maybe it has what you want...or maybe what you want is a minority and not cost efficient to keep going?
Much to MMO veterans dismay, MMO'S have defenitely taken a detour in terms of what they are, what their purpose is and how the content is delivered. While I dont disagree with your thoughts Hyan, you do seem to be a little more trolly in this post (no offense). MMO's simply are working just like the console industry, just making a game that will please everyone for the money and not give a crap about what a (Insert Genre Here) was originally set out to do. This is exactly why i love square enix as far as FFXI goes (FFXIV i will not comment on.) because they cared about making a niche game that defined the genre and didnt care about $$$ because much like blizzard, they had other games. Blizzard are just greedy little bastards that changed the definition of the genre at the right moment to make all the difference.
Just like the Wii being the console that can now be played by ALL ages, blizzard set the stage for the mmo that players who dont and wont normally touch an mmo could enjoy. And over the years they simply made their game easier and easier in order to attract more players and hence you had WOTLK. While I believe that WoW had it right...somewhat in Vanilla I dont aggree as far as WOTLK and BC were concerned.
Long story short, a MMO can make radical changes to make it enjoyable as long as its company isnt here to make just money, every expansion in FFXI added more content for endgame without increasing the level cap due to the excellent gear progression they had. Each exp pack had a rich and gripping story and had a totally DIFFERENT endgame up until WOTG which gave you the ablilty to explore the world in the past and be party of huge beastman sieges in your oringal cities you swore loyalty to.
Blizzard will always be in it for the money, so all the game will be is a stale grindfest to level cap and someone difficult raid strategies (wipe on boss x amount of time until your guild figures out a formula/strategy to beat him and get the gear and wait for next exp back) but dont forget that you have to grind more of the same instances on heroic with some new ones to get there first. Its a endless treadmill of boredom to me, so to those who enjoy it i tip my hat off to you for you probably never had a chance to play a real mmo and see what this genre was all about.
Much to MMO veterans dismay, MMO'S have defenitely taken a detour in terms of what they are, what their purpose is and how the content is delivered. While I dont disagree with your thoughts Hyan, you do seem to be a little more trolly in this post (no offense). MMO's simply are working just like the console industry, just making a game that will please everyone for the money and not give a crap about what a (Insert Genre Here) was originally set out to do. This is exactly why i love square enix as far as FFXI goes (FFXIV i will not comment on.) because they cared about making a niche game that defined the genre and didnt care about $$$ because much like blizzard, they had other games. Blizzard are just greedy little bastards that changed the definition of the genre at the right moment to make all the difference.
Just like the Wii being the console that can now be played by ALL ages, blizzard set the stage for the mmo that players who dont and wont normally touch an mmo could enjoy. And over the years they simply made their game easier and easier in order to attract more players and hence you had WOTLK. While I believe that WoW had it right...somewhat in Vanilla I dont aggree as far as WOTLK and BC were concerned.
Long story short, a MMO can make radical changes to make it enjoyable as long as its company isnt here to make just money, every expansion in FFXI added more content for endgame without increasing the level cap due to the excellent gear progression they had. Each exp pack had a rich and gripping story and had a totally DIFFERENT endgame up until WOTG which gave you the ablilty to explore the world in the past and be party of huge beastman sieges in your oringal cities you swore loyalty to.
Blizzard will always be in it for the money, so all the game will be is a stale grindfest to level cap and someone difficult raid strategies (wipe on boss x amount of time until your guild figures out a formula/strategy to beat him and get the gear and wait for next exp back) but dont forget that you have to grind more of the same instances on heroic with some new ones to get there first. Its a endless treadmill of boredom to me, so to those who enjoy it i tip my hat off to you for you probably never had a chance to play a real mmo and see what this genre was all about.
WoW is a real mmo. What is really amazing about the current mmo market is that there are just so many options for so many different types of ppl. Sorry can't really agree with anything you said because that is your opinion, which is fine btw everyone is entitled to their own. Also making games is a business. There isn't a developer in the world that isn't in this for the money. If they weren't there wouldn't be any games.
Much to MMO veterans dismay, MMO'S have defenitely taken a detour in terms of what they are, what their purpose is and how the content is delivered. While I dont disagree with your thoughts Hyan, you do seem to be a little more trolly in this post (no offense). MMO's simply are working just like the console industry, just making a game that will please everyone for the money and not give a crap about what a (Insert Genre Here) was originally set out to do. This is exactly why i love square enix as far as FFXI goes (FFXIV i will not comment on.) because they cared about making a niche game that defined the genre and didnt care about $$$ because much like blizzard, they had other games. Blizzard are just greedy little bastards that changed the definition of the genre at the right moment to make all the difference.
Just like the Wii being the console that can now be played by ALL ages, blizzard set the stage for the mmo that players who dont and wont normally touch an mmo could enjoy. And over the years they simply made their game easier and easier in order to attract more players and hence you had WOTLK. While I believe that WoW had it right...somewhat in Vanilla I dont aggree as far as WOTLK and BC were concerned.
Long story short, a MMO can make radical changes to make it enjoyable as long as its company isnt here to make just money, every expansion in FFXI added more content for endgame without increasing the level cap due to the excellent gear progression they had. Each exp pack had a rich and gripping story and had a totally DIFFERENT endgame up until WOTG which gave you the ablilty to explore the world in the past and be party of huge beastman sieges in your oringal cities you swore loyalty to.
Blizzard will always be in it for the money, so all the game will be is a stale grindfest to level cap and someone difficult raid strategies (wipe on boss x amount of time until your guild figures out a formula/strategy to beat him and get the gear and wait for next exp back) but dont forget that you have to grind more of the same instances on heroic with some new ones to get there first. Its a endless treadmill of boredom to me, so to those who enjoy it i tip my hat off to you for you probably never had a chance to play a real mmo and see what this genre was all about.
WoW is a real mmo. What is really amazing about the current mmo market is that there are just so many options for so many different types of ppl. Sorry can't really agree with anything you said because that is your opinion, which is fine btw everyone is entitled to their own. Also making games is a business. There isn't a developer in the world that isn't in this for the money. If they weren't there wouldn't be any games.
Im not saying wow isnt a real mmo, it just takes things like community and social relations (the core of what MMOS stood for) and throws them in the back seat and drops them off at the current level cap. Its only group content for PvE being Dungeons and Raids are all Instanced, Dungeons being controlled by the dungeon finder just detaches all form of community in the game making it feel like a huge lobby. And sadly Gear does take priority over player skill, and I dont think anyone would disagree about that which got to endgame.
Sorry breh, thats not how mmos worked, so to me (i guess in my opinion) wow really isnt a mmo to me outside of the persistant world feature.
WoW is a real mmo. What is really amazing about the current mmo market is that there are just so many options for so many different types of ppl. Sorry can't really agree with anything you said because that is your opinion, which is fine btw everyone is entitled to their own. Also making games is a business. There isn't a developer in the world that isn't in this for the money. If they weren't there wouldn't be any games.
WoW is hardly a real MMO. The instances combined with the dungeon finder feature and the cross realm battlegrounds essentially disqualified it. Even long before that, it was almost entirely focused on being single player anyway.
As for the current market having a lot of choices, that's just far from the truth. If you want a well supprted fully developed game, you have a choice between about 4-5 EQ/WoW clones that all play exactly teh same. If you want something deep or new, you have to settle for some poorly funded indie company.
In the MMO Golden Age, there used to be numerous AAA MMOs, and they were all VASTLY different from one another, and all had healthy populations. That's not so today.
And no kidding developers want to make money, but there's a difference between releasing a new/exciting game to earn some money, while doing work you love, and working for a megalith company that is only interested in releasing watered down super casual fad games that will rake in as much money with as little effort.
All those shovelware games on the Wii? That's WoW.
WoW is a real mmo. What is really amazing about the current mmo market is that there are just so many options for so many different types of ppl. Sorry can't really agree with anything you said because that is your opinion, which is fine btw everyone is entitled to their own. Also making games is a business. There isn't a developer in the world that isn't in this for the money. If they weren't there wouldn't be any games.
WoW is hardly a real MMO. The instances combined with the dungeon finder feature and the cross realm battlegrounds essentially disqualified it. Even long before that, it was almost entirely focused on being single player anyway.
As for the current market having a lot of choices, that's just far from the truth. If you want a well supprted fully developed game, you have a choice between about 4-5 EQ/WoW clones that all play exactly teh same. If you want something deep or new, you have to settle for some poorly funded indie company.
In the MMO Golden Age, there used to be numerous AAA MMOs, and they were all VASTLY different from one another, and all had healthy populations. That's not so today.
And no kidding developers want to make money, but there's a difference between releasing a new/exciting game to earn some money, while doing work you love, and working for a megalith company that is only interested in releasing watered down super casual fad games that will rake in as much money with as little effort.
All those shovelware games on the Wii? That's WoW.
Couldnt of said it better myself, my 2 cents of the single player approach (Phasing) great idea on paper, just doesnt cut it in 2011. The new mmos coming out understand this and understand what questing meant in MMOS, which means no bullshit kill x for y for z purpose fedex bs quests and persistant world changing events. WAR was the first mmo to start the idea of Public quests but GW2 and Rift are perfecting them. These events are taken place with all that are in the area making it dynamic while not making it instanced = win. These games wont reach the subscriber base that wow has but finally new fresh mmos that are bringing back what mmos set out to do in modern format (graphics).
You want any of these? Well, WoW never had them and never will for obvious reasons. Just curious, you trolling or something?
Wolrd PvP that mattter - I always love this. Makes me all fuzzy inside. Sounds like gank more, gank more and have consequences, aka lets loot the victim's corpse and make them lose a few months worth of progress.
Enlighten me, what is the obvious reason to not have housing? EQ2 is not that different and have it, and many players really enjoy their own place.
I can see that player made cities is really hard to add to a game after launch and I can understand that the choose not to add them but player housing is pretty simple to add, LOTRO did it.
People can't expect a game to change totally but would really adding player houses bother anyone at all?
WoW is hardly a real MMO. The instances combined with the dungeon finder feature and the cross realm battlegrounds essentially disqualified it.
That makes WoW more a online RPG (which isn't bad per se, I like online RPG's). Blizzard is dead set in making their game as convenient as possible, and this is an admirable goal.. but you know what's the most convenient MMO? A non-MMO.
Hub-based gameplay so everything you're looking for is close by.. teleporting to instances so you don't have to walk anywhere or deal with other players. Groups are generated on the fly.
This is all great in itself, but if you set out to make a game like this, you should do it all the way.
Now it's like, well there's the open areas and lots of players around to interact with, quests to do and stuff.. and then there's the opposite side of the spectrum. It is such a bipolar game in so many aspects. Like solo vs. grouping depending on what part of the game you have access to, on top of the rest.
But hey, they did it at the right time, it works for them.. so who am I to judge.. HOWEVER, other companies are stupid enough to imitate this "mix of the two" game and as the result end up being... well, not really MMO's but hardly online RPG's either. Insufficient server hardware and focus on creating large worlds makes sure that the gameplay can never become as good as it could in a hub-based instance game (without stuff like gathering or even crafting professions) where development can be more focused, but then again the instances and hubs (convenience) they have make them only a pseudo-MMO's at best, only during the grind (which everyone wants to be done with asap anyway).
This whole genre is just.... a mess
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Again, you are ignoring some major features, purposely..? You used to write a lot of good informative posts, Hyanmen. You can do better in your rethoric.
Sorry about that. I tried to think up some, but I don't see anything in that list worth mentioning. Feel free to correct me.
Ah yes, achievements....!
Ahh so it's more of a question of features that matter to you. As I said previously, Rated BGs and Guild Progression are both features worth mentionning.
The PvP scene used to be very arena-centric in BC and in WotLK. If it's driven properly, rated BGs may change it completely. Guild progression is also a very important social aspect. When I log into AoC or Aion, and I see every guilds or legions mentionning their rank or level when they recruit, which tells me it is a meaningful feature.
2 new races can be meaningful as well to some. So is the new milestone in the lore.
Ahh so it's more of a question of features that matter to you. As I said previously, Rated BGs and Guild Progression are both features worth mentionning.
Guild Progression sounds like something one could consider new. Very interesting. I may have skipped that one.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Bah,99% of the posters,sound like they are defending Blizzard for not creating a GAME,go figure,anyone would want some content in a game after 6 years?
The op is NOT asking for Blizzard to change the game,he is asking to ADD some content,there is a big difference there.He is saying ,ok i am done your boring quests,that i could get in any game anywhere anytime,and i am done leveling ,so now what?
Blizzard is claiming they made a rpg.BG instance is NOT a RPG,instances do not equal a RPG,content that makes a player feel like they are living a real virtual world,IS a RPG.You can still have that shallow content that many think is gaming called [end game raiding],but that does not mean Blizzard can't use those millions they are making to create some content.
Creating more quests,is a real cop out by Blizzard,again any developer can accomplish that ...easily and with less profit than what Blizzard is accumulating.
Housing,guild battles,yes i can see that being part of a living real world,i don't think the OP is asking too much there at all,6 years later Blizzard should have easily accomplished that.
BTW Blizzard is the one claiming that Cataclysym will CHANGE the world forever,pretty much false advertising,since it will change very little of the actual game.Tweaking some classes,is not really changing anything you can't do in a patch update.IMO Cata is freeware content,no way in hell they should be charging for that.It is imo far too little a reason to keep anyone interested in the game,and to ask people to pay for that little bit is quite amazing that they feel their player base is that NAIVE.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I am itching to get hold of my CE because after whole year of MMO failures, i would be more than happy to enjoy some quality and polished content. Even if it is more of the same. As long as it keeps me engaged and busy why not?
Aye.. when you are content with so little, that's fine.
Must be a great experience for you and feel just as fun and fresh as it did back when you started playing. Nothing can top more of the same.
You can also rest easy knowing that Blizzard is getting juust as much profit as before. That's what matters, in the end.
Yeah, i am fine with that because atleast i didn't end up puling my hair in frustration like i did in FFXIV. I can assure there is nothing little about WOW. There is plenty of stuff to do but if someone just wants to rush to level cap to grind end game dungeons well then there is that option too.
Also, i am surprised that you are having this revelation today but we knew what Cata is offering, so i have no idea why are you so disappointed. Variety in life is good. if i have to have mindless fun i log in WOW, if i want to stimulate my brain i will go play chess. Not every MMO needs to be complex and full of innovation.
Not all of us use video games as some tool to show how better, superior and more intelligent we are compared to others who enjoy simple things in life.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Again, you are ignoring some major features, purposely..? You used to write a lot of good informative posts, Hyanmen. You can do better in your rethoric.
Sorry about that. I tried to think up some, but I don't see anything in that list worth mentioning. Feel free to correct me.
Ah yes, achievements....!
It seems that you want a game that is more about innovation, genre changing or next generation.
WOW is not. WOW is about pleasing its 12 million players and to do that Blizzard is not going to change what they do and how they do it.
Until something happens (massive subscription loss, revenue loss, etc...), Blizzard is not going to do anything different.
The goal of this expansion is clearly to please the players currently playing and with the changes to the old world and leveling, make WOW exciting for new players. personally I think this is more of a sideways expansion than a tiered one. By that I mean, I think Blizzard wants players to do things like create alts, spend more time exploring and such and not just focus on character advancement of their main (oh look I got level 200 gear, now 219, now 245, now 264). To me its quite a risk and it will be interesting to see how it works. If it works well, maybe more games will go to an expansion model where the focus isn't always on just character improvement.
^^ This, exactly. Why do you think Blizzard only added 5 levels to the cap? SO, they can keep the casual gamer on the gearscore treadmill. You'll notice a trend in expansions from Blizzard; vanilla level cap was 40, BC level cap was 60 - a 20 level change, WotLK level cap was 70 - a 10 level change, Cataclysm level cap is 85 - a 5 level change. Blizzard has found the sweet spot for their casual gamer fan base and is doing just enought to keep them churning along on the gearscore grind.
They add guild leveling and archeology to keep the sideways (horizontal) growth happening. Open up a couple of more race/class combos and it is alt heaven; absolutely more ways to milk the same old ground. Nothing new or innovative, just more of the same and the zombie-like masses eat it up; big props to Blizzard to keeping the cash cow producing.
You clearly did not at all comprehend what was said - or you did and you just ignored it. I personally am enjoying the massive amount of new quest content, zone changes, and graphics upgrades and haven't purchased Cataclysm - and may not purchase it. Yet playing casually there is enough new stuff here to keep me enjoying the game for months.
Now, the reason for my response is that I can't let the misinformation slide. Vanilla cap was 60, BC was 70, WotLK was 80. So 2 expansions were 10 lvls and the new one is 5. Also, leveling from 70 to 80 took a LONG time and once you finished you realized you had maybe completed 65% of the quests available so there was loads of content in those 10 levels. I would assume 80-85 is still packed with content.
As someone who is also sick of the gear grind in WoW I still find it irritating that so many people will start flapping their fingers when they clearly have no clue what they are writing about. WoW may be getting boring for some of us, but it's still light-years ahead of its competition. There are games I'm playing now that I am enjoying more than WoW but I recognize that these games really aren't close to WoW's quality on any level. They're just different enough to capture my interest but they certainly won't hold it as long as WoW has - if for no other reason than WoW has so much more stuff to do than any game on the market. And please don't blah blah about what WoW doesn't have. I didn't say it has everything. I just said it has more stuff than any other game and that's a true statement.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
I am not interested in the same old same old World of Warcraft, so my question is simple; Are there any new game features? Or is this game still all about grinding gear? My sub runs out tomorrow, maybe someone here could tell me theres something for me in it now with it's Cataclysm release, cause I am not interested in playing the game just to get to level 85 then start (again) grind gear.
Maybe it now could offer:
-Politics?
-Housings?
-World PvP that matter?
-Player cities?
-etc etc
You want any of these? Well, WoW never had them and never will for obvious reasons. Just curious, you trolling or something?
Wolrd PvP that mattter - I always love this. Makes me all fuzzy inside. Sounds like gank more, gank more and have consequences, aka lets loot the victim's corpse and make them lose a few months worth of progress.
He doesn't mean this. He means World PvP with objectives, something that would drive people to do it.
Yeah, that's why Wintergrasp was so dead for the first year. oh wait.. for a year, every 3 hours, about 200 people were participating. That is more players than most games have on their entire servers at one time. Even this past week there were probably 30v30 battles on my server for each WG.
I can assure there is nothing little about WOW. There is plenty of stuff to do but if someone just wants to rush to level cap to grind end game dungeons well then there is that option too.
Not all of us use video games as some tool to show how better, superior and more intelligent we are compared to others who enjoy simple things in life.
(mod edited)
You seem to have misunderstood. There is very little in WoW as far as experiences are concerned. We have already experienced everything, now we experience it again. The rehash is hardly an experience worth mentioning- something to pass time, sure. That's why I occasionally watch an episode of Survivors.
But that's not why I play games.. I doubt that's why anyone plays games. Real experiences are important and should be valued, companies encouraged to give us even better experiences.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
YOU might think politics are not fun. Speak for yourself on that matter. Same goes for you opinion about Player Housings. These are features I have played in other games, and I can assure I find it quite thrilling to attack other guilds cities/towers/etc during late hrs at night.
If you are thinking about Wintergrasp, I guess anyone but you will say it is a massive fail. I can't remember last time I even bothered thinking about WG. Cause it just was not worth it. The old "pvp" objectives in EPL was utterly joke. And still are. It is only there to add 1 more quest in the Loremaster grind. Bah. Then you talk about pvp quests in WOTLK... well, try find anyone in Northrend. To fill up your 20 kills needed for one them quests your apparently refer to. It is not worth it, so people are not around. Which is fail. The 1-80 brackets will now be even more dead than ever before. Heck, I barely saw anyone playing Worgen when I logged on earlier this morning (packed with Goblins, but you know the corrupt Blizzard is catering their favored side as usual, thus gave more love to Goblin than Worgen).
Not impressed at all. Very dissapointing expansion from what I can see. I seriously expected alot more than some minor pixel upgrades. I feel robbed. But their marketing campaing sure caught me; I bought the digital download from Battlenet long time ago... When I still thought that Cataclysm would be a huge change. My bad. I cancelled my account a week ago as I did not see any point in playing the game just for the addiction rather than the thrill. Subscription runs out tomorrow.
I deeply regret buying this expansion.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I think the feature list was available before launch... somewhere on the Internets. I think you can also cancel a pre-order, so I would have cancelled it long time ago if I were you, knowing your account expired 24 hours after its launch date.
I don't think you had time to enjoy most of its new 'features' as well. May they seem small to some is debatable.
Lots of things. Why not some open world endgame for a change? Phasing can already take care of the potential issues.
Why not make "trash" mobs matter more? Why is the game always so boss-centric?
How about an event designed to be random and have many potential objectives to do.
Path of the Titans sounded cool too.
They could also have a new take on WAR's PQ system. They could have built the entire expansion around that concept.
Now it's just:
- More zones.. yay
- More quests... yay
- More raids... yay
Again, you are ignoring some major features, purposely..? You used to write a lot of good informative posts, Hyanmen. You can do better in your rethoric.
Why not make "trash" mobs matter more? Why is the game always so boss-centric?
How about an event designed to be random and have many potential objectives to do.
Path of the Titans sounded cool too.
They could also have a new take on WAR's PQ system. They could have built the entire expansion around that concept.
Now it's just:
- More zones.. yay
- More quests... yay
- More raids... yay
- more achievements
Sorry about that. I tried to think up some, but I don't see anything in that list worth mentioning. Feel free to correct me.
Ah yes, achievements....!
^^ This, exactly. Why do you think Blizzard only added 5 levels to the cap? SO, they can keep the casual gamer on the gearscore treadmill. You'll notice a trend in expansions from Blizzard; vanilla level cap was 40, BC level cap was 60 - a 20 level change, WotLK level cap was 70 - a 10 level change, Cataclysm level cap is 85 - a 5 level change. Blizzard has found the sweet spot for their casual gamer fan base and is doing just enought to keep them churning along on the gearscore grind.
They add guild leveling and archeology to keep the sideways (horizontal) growth happening. Open up a couple of more race/class combos and it is alt heaven; absolutely more ways to milk the same old ground. Nothing new or innovative, just more of the same and the zombie-like masses eat it up; big props to Blizzard to keeping the cash cow producing.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Oh yeah, this is exactly what I mean. It is so predictable. You always know what's going to happen.
The great "unexpected" twist in Cataclysm was.... that they didn't add as many new zones, but changed the existing zones.
Gasp.
Either way it doesn't really matter. It's just fun to point these things out from time to time. They will do what makes the most profit, and we will like it.
EDIT: Ah yes, only 5 level increase instead of 10. They took out the big guns in this one for sure!
Good expansions, traditionally, add some good new ideas to the game. New mechanics or features. It doesn't make it a "new game". Many MMOs have added housing as part of an expansion. The excuse "Its not a new game, why would they do something new?" doesn't fly.
Then again, this is WoW we're talking about people. The game that has not had one single unique or innovative feature to its name in a 5 year run. Why would you expect one now?
There are some valid points in here.
We don't expect an expansion to radically change the game, but it should add new features. The new guild levels and rated battlegrounds are a good start, but there's so much that Blizzard could be doing that would improve their game but don't because they're terrified of jostling the status quo too much, for obvious reasons.
Some things that should be in the game, but aren't:
Housing.
Player owned shops/structures.
World PvP with siege warfare and dynamic control points.
Mounted combat.
Mounts that are more than just a model change and speed boost.
A crafting/gathering system with at least some depth.
Decent character creation.
What's most annoying is that they have a solid base to implement all of this.
Something along the lines of 10-12 million do not understand this. If 10 miilion suddenly agreed with you folks...then Blizz would change things. FYI they are making another MMO, maybe it has what you want...or maybe what you want is a minority and not cost efficient to keep going?
Much to MMO veterans dismay, MMO'S have defenitely taken a detour in terms of what they are, what their purpose is and how the content is delivered. While I dont disagree with your thoughts Hyan, you do seem to be a little more trolly in this post (no offense). MMO's simply are working just like the console industry, just making a game that will please everyone for the money and not give a crap about what a (Insert Genre Here) was originally set out to do. This is exactly why i love square enix as far as FFXI goes (FFXIV i will not comment on.) because they cared about making a niche game that defined the genre and didnt care about $$$ because much like blizzard, they had other games. Blizzard are just greedy little bastards that changed the definition of the genre at the right moment to make all the difference.
Just like the Wii being the console that can now be played by ALL ages, blizzard set the stage for the mmo that players who dont and wont normally touch an mmo could enjoy. And over the years they simply made their game easier and easier in order to attract more players and hence you had WOTLK. While I believe that WoW had it right...somewhat in Vanilla I dont aggree as far as WOTLK and BC were concerned.
Long story short, a MMO can make radical changes to make it enjoyable as long as its company isnt here to make just money, every expansion in FFXI added more content for endgame without increasing the level cap due to the excellent gear progression they had. Each exp pack had a rich and gripping story and had a totally DIFFERENT endgame up until WOTG which gave you the ablilty to explore the world in the past and be party of huge beastman sieges in your oringal cities you swore loyalty to.
Blizzard will always be in it for the money, so all the game will be is a stale grindfest to level cap and someone difficult raid strategies (wipe on boss x amount of time until your guild figures out a formula/strategy to beat him and get the gear and wait for next exp back) but dont forget that you have to grind more of the same instances on heroic with some new ones to get there first. Its a endless treadmill of boredom to me, so to those who enjoy it i tip my hat off to you for you probably never had a chance to play a real mmo and see what this genre was all about.
WoW is a real mmo. What is really amazing about the current mmo market is that there are just so many options for so many different types of ppl. Sorry can't really agree with anything you said because that is your opinion, which is fine btw everyone is entitled to their own. Also making games is a business. There isn't a developer in the world that isn't in this for the money. If they weren't there wouldn't be any games.
Im not saying wow isnt a real mmo, it just takes things like community and social relations (the core of what MMOS stood for) and throws them in the back seat and drops them off at the current level cap. Its only group content for PvE being Dungeons and Raids are all Instanced, Dungeons being controlled by the dungeon finder just detaches all form of community in the game making it feel like a huge lobby. And sadly Gear does take priority over player skill, and I dont think anyone would disagree about that which got to endgame.
Sorry breh, thats not how mmos worked, so to me (i guess in my opinion) wow really isnt a mmo to me outside of the persistant world feature.
WoW is hardly a real MMO. The instances combined with the dungeon finder feature and the cross realm battlegrounds essentially disqualified it. Even long before that, it was almost entirely focused on being single player anyway.
As for the current market having a lot of choices, that's just far from the truth. If you want a well supprted fully developed game, you have a choice between about 4-5 EQ/WoW clones that all play exactly teh same. If you want something deep or new, you have to settle for some poorly funded indie company.
In the MMO Golden Age, there used to be numerous AAA MMOs, and they were all VASTLY different from one another, and all had healthy populations. That's not so today.
And no kidding developers want to make money, but there's a difference between releasing a new/exciting game to earn some money, while doing work you love, and working for a megalith company that is only interested in releasing watered down super casual fad games that will rake in as much money with as little effort.
All those shovelware games on the Wii? That's WoW.
Couldnt of said it better myself, my 2 cents of the single player approach (Phasing) great idea on paper, just doesnt cut it in 2011. The new mmos coming out understand this and understand what questing meant in MMOS, which means no bullshit kill x for y for z purpose fedex bs quests and persistant world changing events. WAR was the first mmo to start the idea of Public quests but GW2 and Rift are perfecting them. These events are taken place with all that are in the area making it dynamic while not making it instanced = win. These games wont reach the subscriber base that wow has but finally new fresh mmos that are bringing back what mmos set out to do in modern format (graphics).
Enlighten me, what is the obvious reason to not have housing? EQ2 is not that different and have it, and many players really enjoy their own place.
I can see that player made cities is really hard to add to a game after launch and I can understand that the choose not to add them but player housing is pretty simple to add, LOTRO did it.
People can't expect a game to change totally but would really adding player houses bother anyone at all?
That makes WoW more a online RPG (which isn't bad per se, I like online RPG's). Blizzard is dead set in making their game as convenient as possible, and this is an admirable goal.. but you know what's the most convenient MMO? A non-MMO.
Hub-based gameplay so everything you're looking for is close by.. teleporting to instances so you don't have to walk anywhere or deal with other players. Groups are generated on the fly.
This is all great in itself, but if you set out to make a game like this, you should do it all the way.
Now it's like, well there's the open areas and lots of players around to interact with, quests to do and stuff.. and then there's the opposite side of the spectrum. It is such a bipolar game in so many aspects. Like solo vs. grouping depending on what part of the game you have access to, on top of the rest.
But hey, they did it at the right time, it works for them.. so who am I to judge.. HOWEVER, other companies are stupid enough to imitate this "mix of the two" game and as the result end up being... well, not really MMO's but hardly online RPG's either. Insufficient server hardware and focus on creating large worlds makes sure that the gameplay can never become as good as it could in a hub-based instance game (without stuff like gathering or even crafting professions) where development can be more focused, but then again the instances and hubs (convenience) they have make them only a pseudo-MMO's at best, only during the grind (which everyone wants to be done with asap anyway).
This whole genre is just.... a mess
Ahh so it's more of a question of features that matter to you. As I said previously, Rated BGs and Guild Progression are both features worth mentionning.
The PvP scene used to be very arena-centric in BC and in WotLK. If it's driven properly, rated BGs may change it completely. Guild progression is also a very important social aspect. When I log into AoC or Aion, and I see every guilds or legions mentionning their rank or level when they recruit, which tells me it is a meaningful feature.
2 new races can be meaningful as well to some. So is the new milestone in the lore.
Guild Progression sounds like something one could consider new. Very interesting. I may have skipped that one.
Bah,99% of the posters,sound like they are defending Blizzard for not creating a GAME,go figure,anyone would want some content in a game after 6 years?
The op is NOT asking for Blizzard to change the game,he is asking to ADD some content,there is a big difference there.He is saying ,ok i am done your boring quests,that i could get in any game anywhere anytime,and i am done leveling ,so now what?
Blizzard is claiming they made a rpg.BG instance is NOT a RPG,instances do not equal a RPG,content that makes a player feel like they are living a real virtual world,IS a RPG.You can still have that shallow content that many think is gaming called [end game raiding],but that does not mean Blizzard can't use those millions they are making to create some content.
Creating more quests,is a real cop out by Blizzard,again any developer can accomplish that ...easily and with less profit than what Blizzard is accumulating.
Housing,guild battles,yes i can see that being part of a living real world,i don't think the OP is asking too much there at all,6 years later Blizzard should have easily accomplished that.
BTW Blizzard is the one claiming that Cataclysym will CHANGE the world forever,pretty much false advertising,since it will change very little of the actual game.Tweaking some classes,is not really changing anything you can't do in a patch update.IMO Cata is freeware content,no way in hell they should be charging for that.It is imo far too little a reason to keep anyone interested in the game,and to ask people to pay for that little bit is quite amazing that they feel their player base is that NAIVE.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yeah, i am fine with that because atleast i didn't end up puling my hair in frustration like i did in FFXIV. I can assure there is nothing little about WOW. There is plenty of stuff to do but if someone just wants to rush to level cap to grind end game dungeons well then there is that option too.
Also, i am surprised that you are having this revelation today but we knew what Cata is offering, so i have no idea why are you so disappointed. Variety in life is good. if i have to have mindless fun i log in WOW, if i want to stimulate my brain i will go play chess. Not every MMO needs to be complex and full of innovation.
Not all of us use video games as some tool to show how better, superior and more intelligent we are compared to others who enjoy simple things in life.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
You clearly did not at all comprehend what was said - or you did and you just ignored it. I personally am enjoying the massive amount of new quest content, zone changes, and graphics upgrades and haven't purchased Cataclysm - and may not purchase it. Yet playing casually there is enough new stuff here to keep me enjoying the game for months.
Now, the reason for my response is that I can't let the misinformation slide. Vanilla cap was 60, BC was 70, WotLK was 80. So 2 expansions were 10 lvls and the new one is 5. Also, leveling from 70 to 80 took a LONG time and once you finished you realized you had maybe completed 65% of the quests available so there was loads of content in those 10 levels. I would assume 80-85 is still packed with content.
As someone who is also sick of the gear grind in WoW I still find it irritating that so many people will start flapping their fingers when they clearly have no clue what they are writing about. WoW may be getting boring for some of us, but it's still light-years ahead of its competition. There are games I'm playing now that I am enjoying more than WoW but I recognize that these games really aren't close to WoW's quality on any level. They're just different enough to capture my interest but they certainly won't hold it as long as WoW has - if for no other reason than WoW has so much more stuff to do than any game on the market. And please don't blah blah about what WoW doesn't have. I didn't say it has everything. I just said it has more stuff than any other game and that's a true statement.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
Yeah, that's why Wintergrasp was so dead for the first year. oh wait.. for a year, every 3 hours, about 200 people were participating. That is more players than most games have on their entire servers at one time. Even this past week there were probably 30v30 battles on my server for each WG.
(mod edited)
You seem to have misunderstood. There is very little in WoW as far as experiences are concerned. We have already experienced everything, now we experience it again. The rehash is hardly an experience worth mentioning- something to pass time, sure. That's why I occasionally watch an episode of Survivors.
But that's not why I play games.. I doubt that's why anyone plays games. Real experiences are important and should be valued, companies encouraged to give us even better experiences.