I can assure there is nothing little about WOW. There is plenty of stuff to do but if someone just wants to rush to level cap to grind end game dungeons well then there is that option too.
Not all of us use video games as some tool to show how better, superior and more intelligent we are compared to others who enjoy simple things in life.
(mod edited)
You seem to have misunderstood. There is very little in WoW as far as experiences are concerned. We have already experienced everything, now we experience it again. The rehash is hardly an experience worth mentioning- something to pass time, sure. That's why I occasionally watch an episode of Survivors.
But that's not why I play games.. I doubt that's why anyone plays games. Real experiences are important and should be valued, companies encouraged to give us even better experiences.
Mean? haa..considering your sarcasm in last post i am being a prefect gentleman here. Didn't you just insult me for someone being with lesser standards because i just want to enjoy polished and quality content and not too much bothered by whole innovation thing? i don't know what you play games for but i just want to have fun in whatever 2 or 3 hours a day i get. I want to feel i accomplished something in those few hours and feel that i have a reason to log in back again tomorrow.. Thats is the kind of experince i am looking for. I don't play video games to feel better about myself or to create a seperate identity from others which a lot of players do on these forums.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Man... there is sure a lot of whining in this thread.
Its really simple. If you don't like WoW or the direction Blizzard has taken with it or its expansions, don't play it. They are developing their game in the direction that will please their existing customers and draw in new ones. No one should have ever expected them to radically alter their game with an expansion pack. Nor should anyone expect them to start trending in a sandbox direction... especially since sandbox games are generally neither accessible to casual players nor very successful. Blizzard is not going to start implementing features from failed game models. That is just not what they do... which is probably why they are so successful.
As for the complaints about the supposed lack of 'new' content: I think you are really just upset about the lack of sandox content. Which, as I said above, is ridiculous. There is TONS of new content in the expansion. Just because you don't like it does not mean that Blizzard's 12+ million subscribers don't. I think most of their players will be very happy with Cataclysm. As for the rest of you... I don't think Blizzard really gives a rats arse what the tiny sandbox niche thinks.
Man... there is sure a lot of whining in this thread.
Its really simple. If you don't like WoW or the direction Blizzard has taken with it or its expansions, don't play it. They are developing their game in the direction that will please their existing customers and draw in new ones. No one should have ever expected them to radically alter their game with an expansion pack. Nor should anyone expect them to start trending in a sandbox direction... especially since sandbox games are generally neither accessible to casual players nor very successful. Blizzard is not going to start implementing features from failed game models. That is just not what they do... which is probably why they are so successful.
As for the complaints about the supposed lack of 'new' content: I think you are really just upset about the lack of sandox content. Which, as I said above, is ridiculous. There is TONS of new content in the expansion. Just because you don't like it does not mean that Blizzard's 12+ million subscribers don't. I think most of their players will be very happy with Cataclysm. As for the rest of you... I don't think Blizzard really gives a rats arse what the tiny sandbox niche thinks.
Sad this is what this whole topic is all about. Mis placed expectations. Everyone knew what CATA was offering, players need to do a little bit of more research before buying the product. Ignorance is no excuse.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I like what they did with the level 1-60 areas. Having fun with that.
However, it is really sad how many things they should have done, long ago, but still haven't.
I think they talked about housing as a future feature when the game first came out. Six years later, still nothing.
They hyped up Hero classes. We finally got Death Knights, but they couldn't manage a second one for this expansion. Maybe we'll get another one in two years? Or never?
Crafting still sucks. In addition to the overhaul to Azeroth, they really should have completely redone recipes for armor and weapons crafting and tweaked the other crafts as well.
Why no dyes for armor?
Why no revamp on the poor character models? (They could have done what EQ2 did with the SOGA models and allowed people to chose between old and new).
Why no new character customization options at all?
Why not have a system like Aion or LotRO, to allow people to chose their look, independant of stats?
The game hasn't evolved, heck it hasn't even delivered on most of the features they talked about adding after launch.
BTW, I have to say I tried Worgen last night and personally found them horrible. How did they manage to take a few steps back with character design and animations? The rest of WoW is stuck in 2004, but the Worgen look like a step back to 2001!?!?!?!
I would of loved to see more contested presistant action in the game.. instead of revamping everything.. I would love loved to see more open world events and activities.. such as new zones from 1 to 85 that have cities in which to build, destroy or fight over.. something like a never ending WG? or Nagrand?.. Something like AV.. Imagine an AV zone that each side has to build their own side, to access quest and perks.. While your enemy tries to destroy it, or fights in the middle.. Something, anything that is persistant would been nice.. Towers to take, towers to hold, earning patrol guards that NEVER lose agro in the zone.. etc etc.. Put some ACTION in the open world..
I would of loved to see something similar that on a PvE side too.. a zone with a horde side and alliance side.. both sides have to defend their city (which has to be built and maintained) to earn quest and perks .. Every so many minutes a army of mobs raid both cities to destroy it.. your faction must defend it or lose your perks and rebuild it..
I like the idea of having some zones that are a tug of war of take or defend.. back and forth with a PURPOSE.. not a constant follow the breakcrumb quest system
Wow is still fun and im enjoying cata. However, now more than ever i am longing for the next crop of mmorpgs to come out. I dont have anything against wow or blizz, i just need something new.. something else.
After playing through the entire Worgen starting area all I have to say is that it was extremely disappointing. I think there was only like small handful of different kinds quests and the rest were all a bunch of go fetch or go kill quests all over again. Then hopped on my troll druid and started leveling in the Barrens again. Pretty much the same as my Worgen experience, small handful of different quests and the rest were all fedex quests yet again. Probably the worst $40.00 I ever spent on an epansion. Lich King was so much better than this. Can't wait for newer mmos to come.
1. Destructable environments, buildings crumble, doors bashed in, wood structures can be set on fire and burn to the ground.
2. horde and alliance cities being able to be taken over with benefits that effect the faction holding the city similar to the city Halaa in TBC but actual main hub locations.
3. noticable damage on player characters. From simple scuff marks to actual limbs falling off.
4. More dynamic content. Caravans the were not there yesterday selling fun wears. Mobs that roam the whole zone. I don't want to feel "safe" in my capital city all the time.
5. give us an epic level of interesting content that is challenging to beat in an expansion..examples of this content would be EQ expansion "The Planes of Power".
6. More class choices. The current number of classes has not changed much from the original. Sure they have 3 specs but those three specs aren't interesting enuff after so many years. Breath new life into them.
7. Hero classes. Why so few....a class shouldn't take 6 years to make. You should be able to come out with at least 2 every six months.
8. Hosted tournaments online every 2 weeks where the top winners walk away with real world prizes like WoW keyboard, WoW mouse, Nice video card, Ram sticks, Nice cpu, etc.
All of these things could have blown the roof off of WoW but.....I do not think anything like what I have listed made it in. I left a while back due to the lack of innovation. Maybe someone actually playing now can tell me.
Wow is still fun and im enjoying cata. However, now more than ever i am longing for the next crop of mmorpgs to come out. I dont have anything against wow or blizz, i just need something new.. something else.
I think that is the reason Blizzard moved their best person (Kaplan) from Wow to Titan (as the rumor say the new game is called, it can be something else).
It is probably better to continue with what made Wow large and put the creativity into the next game instead. Changing too much might be a risk, we all know the three letters NGE...
1. Destructable environments, buildings crumble, doors bashed in, wood structures can be set on fire and burn to the ground.
2. horde and alliance cities being able to be taken over with benefits that effect the faction holding the city similar to the city Halaa in TBC but actual main hub locations.
3. noticable damage on player characters. From simple scuff marks to actual limbs falling off.
4. More dynamic content. Caravans the were not there yesterday selling fun wears. Mobs that roam the whole zone. I don't want to feel "safe" in my capital city all the time.
5. give us an epic level of interesting content that is challenging to beat in an expansion..examples of this content would be EQ expansion "The Planes of Power".
6. More class choices. The current number of classes has not changed much from the original. Sure they have 3 specs but those three specs aren't interesting enuff after so many years. Breath new life into them.
7. Hero classes. Why so few....a class shouldn't take 6 years to make. You should be able to come out with at least 2 every six months.
8. Hosted tournaments online every 2 weeks where the top winners walk away with real world prizes like WoW keyboard, WoW mouse, Nice video card, Ram sticks, Nice cpu, etc.
All of these things could have blown the roof off of WoW but.....I do not think anything like what I have listed made it in. I left a while back due to the lack of innovation. Maybe someone actually playing now can tell me.
^^ This.
While I am not in favor of all of these, even some would have been outstanding. The chance to innovate and doing something new and spectacular is what Blizzard should have been shooting for. But, alas . . . the cash cow must live on!
1. Destructable environments, buildings crumble, doors bashed in, wood structures can be set on fire and burn to the ground.
2. horde and alliance cities being able to be taken over with benefits that effect the faction holding the city similar to the city Halaa in TBC but actual main hub locations.
3. noticable damage on player characters. From simple scuff marks to actual limbs falling off.
4. More dynamic content. Caravans the were not there yesterday selling fun wears. Mobs that roam the whole zone. I don't want to feel "safe" in my capital city all the time.
5. give us an epic level of interesting content that is challenging to beat in an expansion..examples of this content would be EQ expansion "The Planes of Power".
6. More class choices. The current number of classes has not changed much from the original. Sure they have 3 specs but those three specs aren't interesting enuff after so many years. Breath new life into them.
7. Hero classes. Why so few....a class shouldn't take 6 years to make. You should be able to come out with at least 2 every six months.
8. Hosted tournaments online every 2 weeks where the top winners walk away with real world prizes like WoW keyboard, WoW mouse, Nice video card, Ram sticks, Nice cpu, etc.
All of these things could have blown the roof off of WoW but.....I do not think anything like what I have listed made it in. I left a while back due to the lack of innovation. Maybe someone actually playing now can tell me.
^^ This.
While I am not in favor of all of these, even some would have been outstanding. The chance to innovate and doing something new and spectacular is what Blizzard should have been shooting for. But, alas . . . the cash cow must live on!
Power to the casual gamer non-MMO gamer.
But wouldn't it be both easier and smarter to add all those stuff to the next game instead of a 6 year old one? I am pretty sure many of the players are pretty happy with Wow for what it is, with new ideas like this and other (they are good ideas BTW) they can get a new bunch of player instead and possibly still keep the Wow players at the same time.
Stuff like this do take pretty long time to implement as well.
But wouldn't it be both easier and smarter to add all those stuff to the next game instead of a 6 year old one? I am pretty sure many of the players are pretty happy with Wow for what it is, with new ideas like this and other (they are good ideas BTW) they can get a new bunch of player instead and possibly still keep the Wow players at the same time.
Stuff like this do take pretty long time to implement as well.
Yes. It is smarter and better business for Blizzard, which was my point in an earlier post. The reason I left WOW over a year ago was for reasons stated. Nothing new and in fact it is dumbing down. Small level cap changes, a chance to really push the the gear grind, forcing "alt city" . . . all because of the lack of anything new. They keep their revenues high and the casual happy. Its good business for Blizzard. For the rest of the gaming community (non-casual, wow is my only game crowd), it is a let down. Of Course, Blizzard didn't do anything innovative. There's no point in working hard to keep WOW on top, its already there and there is no chance of it falling in the foreseeable future.
This is just the lamenting of a dissatisfied customer hoping that a company with deep pockets and nothing to lose (as WOW will still be number one for another decade) would take a chance and push the enelope of creative and strike us gamers with shock and thunder so we all could awe-struck.
This is a reply to Thorrpes Post, which was a reply to my original comment:
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into World of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admitted to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I don't think I will be seeing that anytime soon. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game, not because they are lazy. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into WOrld of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admiited to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I dont think they will tell me they are not putting it into the game because they are lazy. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into WOrld of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admiited to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I dont think they will tell me they are not putting it into the game because they are lazy. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
1. Destructable environments, buildings crumble, doors bashed in, wood structures can be set on fire and burn to the ground.
2. horde and alliance cities being able to be taken over with benefits that effect the faction holding the city similar to the city Halaa in TBC but actual main hub locations.
3. noticable damage on player characters. From simple scuff marks to actual limbs falling off.
4. More dynamic content. Caravans the were not there yesterday selling fun wears. Mobs that roam the whole zone. I don't want to feel "safe" in my capital city all the time.
5. give us an epic level of interesting content that is challenging to beat in an expansion..examples of this content would be EQ expansion "The Planes of Power".
6. More class choices. The current number of classes has not changed much from the original. Sure they have 3 specs but those three specs aren't interesting enuff after so many years. Breath new life into them.
7. Hero classes. Why so few....a class shouldn't take 6 years to make. You should be able to come out with at least 2 every six months.
8. Hosted tournaments online every 2 weeks where the top winners walk away with real world prizes like WoW keyboard, WoW mouse, Nice video card, Ram sticks, Nice cpu, etc.
All of these things could have blown the roof off of WoW but.....I do not think anything like what I have listed made it in. I left a while back due to the lack of innovation. Maybe someone actually playing now can tell me.
1. This has been done since WotLK. Its called WINTERGASP. In Cataclysm the new zone is TOL BARAD. it has destructible buildings and pvp goals just like WINTERGRASP.
2. Horde and alliance cities CANNOT be taken over because that would lock out MILLIONS of players from quests. Especially with the redesigned cities where they are the main places to go beside Deepholm. Tol Barad can be captured though
3. Not many games have this. And if they do, the game is graphic intensive ( Example: Age of Conan) and graphic intensive games are not favored among casual gamers.
4. Caravans that were are not there all the time exist. Darkmoon Faire is one example. Also Blizzard uses "Phasing" Technology to implement this.
5. There are MOBS that roam the world ot at least zones since Vanilla WoW. World dragons and Kazzak in Vanilla, Fel Reaver and Doom Lord Kazzak in TBC, Tyrm the Hope Ender in WotLK. These are some just some examples, and Ctataclysm has some mobs that are similar.
6. More Classes. There are already 10 classes in WoW. Not many games have this many. They also totally redesigned all the specs, they do not feel like the old specs, which were already changed in WotLK. Also more classes would imbalance the game as the classes already implemented still need to be tweaked.
7. Hero Classes. Read above. Also the first Hero class was introduced last expansion. Next hero class is next expansion. They are suppose to be rare, not a dime a dozen.
8. Tournaments are hosted. but not every 2 weeks. No game can do that. They host Arena tournaments every season with cash prizes up to $25,000 for winners, and various computers, electronics and peripherals for runner ups.
You really need to play the game in its current state before making assumptions.
1. Destructable environments, buildings crumble, doors bashed in, wood structures can be set on fire and burn to the ground.
2. horde and alliance cities being able to be taken over with benefits that effect the faction holding the city similar to the city Halaa in TBC but actual main hub locations.
3. noticable damage on player characters. From simple scuff marks to actual limbs falling off.
4. More dynamic content. Caravans the were not there yesterday selling fun wears. Mobs that roam the whole zone. I don't want to feel "safe" in my capital city all the time.
5. give us an epic level of interesting content that is challenging to beat in an expansion..examples of this content would be EQ expansion "The Planes of Power".
6. More class choices. The current number of classes has not changed much from the original. Sure they have 3 specs but those three specs aren't interesting enuff after so many years. Breath new life into them.
7. Hero classes. Why so few....a class shouldn't take 6 years to make. You should be able to come out with at least 2 every six months.
8. Hosted tournaments online every 2 weeks where the top winners walk away with real world prizes like WoW keyboard, WoW mouse, Nice video card, Ram sticks, Nice cpu, etc.
All of these things could have blown the roof off of WoW but.....I do not think anything like what I have listed made it in. I left a while back due to the lack of innovation. Maybe someone actually playing now can tell me.
beep beep beep..lets back up the bus here.. lol
1. This has been done since WotLK. Its called WINTERGASP. In Cataclysm the new zone is TOL BARAD. it has destructible buildings and pvp goals just like WINTERGRASP. Problem is.. WG is ONLY for 80's with a queue limit.. It used to be open for anyone in their 70's but that got nerfed.. Secondly WG only happens once ever 2.5 hours, which is not often enough for people in the PvP mood.. I believe the poster was refering to 24/7 action.. Thirdly.. Cat is adding another zone, but that again will be the ONLY single zone for 85 to contest battle in.. How often? 2.5 hours again?
2. Horde and alliance cities CANNOT be taken over because that would lock out MILLIONS of players from quests. Especially with the redesigned cities where they are the main places to go beside Deepholm. Tol Barad can be captured though Having a Tol B is good, but what about other aspects of world PvP and incentives.. Halaa used to be one.. Anyone still remember the towers in Terr. Forrest? or the towers in Zanga.. They were mini versions of world PvP with a purpose, or the towers in Hellfire, I just think they needed to add more fun and incentive to them, instead of just standing at tower for 2 minutes to flag it.. However WoTLK didn't even scratch that mechanic.. If anything, WoW de-PvP itself in LK and I don't see any change in Cat..
3. Not many games have this. And if they do, the game is graphic intensive ( Example: Age of Conan) and graphic intensive games are not favored among casual gamers.
4. Caravans that were are not there all the time exist. Darkmoon Faire is one example. Also Blizzard uses "Phasing" Technology to implement this. I liked the roaming vender that carried useful recipes in (oh crap what zone is that?) in original WoW.. grrrr below Stonemountain..
5. There are MOBS that roam the world ot at least zones since Vanilla WoW. World dragons and Kazzak in Vanilla, Fel Reaver and Doom Lord Kazzak in TBC well fel reavers aren't zone wide, they do have a bigger path tho, and Doom Lord never moves.. , Tyrm the Hope Ender in WotLK. All Tyrm does is walk up and down 500 yards of road.. very noticable and very avoidable.. These are some just some examples, and Ctataclysm has some mobs that are similar. I like mobs that can blend in with the rest, and if you aren't paying attention.. BOOM, you might end up in the graveyard.. lol I mean really.. you have to be a complete nincompoop to grab agro from a fel reaver or Tyrm..
6. More Classes. There are already 10 classes in WoW. Not many games have this many. They also totally redesigned all the specs, they do not feel like the old specs, which were already changed in WotLK. Also more classes would imbalance the game as the classes already implemented still need to be tweaked. Balance for what.. Everyone keeps using catch phrases like "balance" and have no clue what it is.. Balance ONLY applies to PvP action.. If you are only focusing on PvE, balance doesn't come into play if the game is designed right..
7. Hero Classes. Read above. Also the first Hero class was introduced last expansion. Next hero class is next expansion. They are suppose to be rare, not a dime a dozen. I'm pretty sure there will be NO new classes, not even hero in the next expansion.. Blizzard wasnt' even happy with adding the DK and wanted to avoid adding it..
8. Tournaments are hosted. but not every 2 weeks. No game can do that. They host Arena tournaments every season with cash prizes up to $25,000 for winners, and various computers, electronics and peripherals for runner ups.
You really need to play the game in its current state before making assumptions. I did for 5 years with Six raid geared 80 toons.. I give high marks to WoW as a casual leveling game.. Grade B+.. But for end game, it losed all it's punch.. Grade D+.. maybe C- if Im in a good mood..
This is a reply to Thorrpes Post, which was a reply to my original comment:
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
=> it is a well known fact Lotro housing is a half baked product (on purpose $$$ wise). The main issue being making the zones far from the cities not into them and having all of them instanced. Meaning they will always stay as ghost cities.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
=> Or simply because from DDO experience they knew they could make even more money
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into World of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admitted to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I don't think I will be seeing that anytime soon. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game, not because they are lazy. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into WOrld of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admiited to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I dont think they will tell me they are not putting it into the game because they are lazy. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into WOrld of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admiited to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I dont think they will tell me they are not putting it into the game because they are lazy. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
If ever housing would hit WoW as guild halls first. I would not be surprised if it would be better than anything that has been done in that domain, something Like a polished housing feature tied to some grinding/achievement system
I don't see player cities as it will end in either or both messy/ghost cities hitting WoW anytime soon. However instanced player houses/apartments in NPC cities that could work.
Politics... I put it along socialization. For Blizzard it's mostly limited to seeing people with better gear than yours at the AH.
Simply put don't even dream about it.
That being said there's one thing that's seriously missing in WoW and it's killing the fun: a social clothing tab topped with gear dyes.
Because let's be honest it really sucks either looking like twins or having mismatched gear. Kinda lame. But we all know it's on purpose.
Yeah, that's why Wintergrasp was so dead for the first year. oh wait.. for a year, every 3 hours, about 200 people were participating. That is more players than most games have on their entire servers at one time. Even this past week there were probably 30v30 battles on my server for each WG.
WG has been broken since it's release. Dunno after last 'fix' thoough. One side dominated on every server. Absolutely fail.
Originally posted by Karble
I agree that they didn't innovate much.
What should they have done?
1. Destructable environments, buildings crumble, doors bashed in, wood structures can be set on fire and burn to the ground.
2. horde and alliance cities being able to be taken over with benefits that effect the faction holding the city similar to the city Halaa in TBC but actual main hub locations.
3. noticable damage on player characters. From simple scuff marks to actual limbs falling off.
4. More dynamic content. Caravans the were not there yesterday selling fun wears. Mobs that roam the whole zone. I don't want to feel "safe" in my capital city all the time.
5. give us an epic level of interesting content that is challenging to beat in an expansion..examples of this content would be EQ expansion "The Planes of Power".
6. More class choices. The current number of classes has not changed much from the original. Sure they have 3 specs but those three specs aren't interesting enuff after so many years. Breath new life into them.
7. Hero classes. Why so few....a class shouldn't take 6 years to make. You should be able to come out with at least 2 every six months.
8. Hosted tournaments online every 2 weeks where the top winners walk away with real world prizes like WoW keyboard, WoW mouse, Nice video card, Ram sticks, Nice cpu, etc.
All of these things could have blown the roof off of WoW but.....I do not think anything like what I have listed made it in. I left a while back due to the lack of innovation. Maybe someone actually playing now can tell me.
Fantastic suggestions! Even moere than I could come up. Well, without too much thinking
WoW is nothing more than offering 'even more polished content' of the same stuff since it's release. It is definately not in lead when it comes to innovative design & new game features. If anyone do belive so, they are definately living in denial.
Yeah, that's why Wintergrasp was so dead for the first year. oh wait.. for a year, every 3 hours, about 200 people were participating. That is more players than most games have on their entire servers at one time. Even this past week there were probably 30v30 battles on my server for each WG.
WG has been broken since it's release. Dunno after last 'fix' thoough. One side dominated on every server. Absolutely fail.
Originally posted by Karble
I agree that they didn't innovate much.
What should they have done?
1. Destructable environments, buildings crumble, doors bashed in, wood structures can be set on fire and burn to the ground.
2. horde and alliance cities being able to be taken over with benefits that effect the faction holding the city similar to the city Halaa in TBC but actual main hub locations.
3. noticable damage on player characters. From simple scuff marks to actual limbs falling off.
4. More dynamic content. Caravans the were not there yesterday selling fun wears. Mobs that roam the whole zone. I don't want to feel "safe" in my capital city all the time.
5. give us an epic level of interesting content that is challenging to beat in an expansion..examples of this content would be EQ expansion "The Planes of Power".
6. More class choices. The current number of classes has not changed much from the original. Sure they have 3 specs but those three specs aren't interesting enuff after so many years. Breath new life into them.
7. Hero classes. Why so few....a class shouldn't take 6 years to make. You should be able to come out with at least 2 every six months.
8. Hosted tournaments online every 2 weeks where the top winners walk away with real world prizes like WoW keyboard, WoW mouse, Nice video card, Ram sticks, Nice cpu, etc.
All of these things could have blown the roof off of WoW but.....I do not think anything like what I have listed made it in. I left a while back due to the lack of innovation. Maybe someone actually playing now can tell me.
Fantastic suggestions! Even moere than I could come up. Well, without too much thinking
WoW is nothing more than offering 'even more polished content' of the same stuff since it's release. It is definately not in lead when it comes to innovative design & new game features. If anyone do belive so, they are definately living in denial.
I'd love to ask how you know every server's WG has been broken. You must have a lot of characters.
I can tell you the servers I've been in (Lothar, Aman'Thul and Caelstraze(spelling?)) have relatively even wins/loss ratio up to about 3 months ago.
It has been releasing content since release since when it launched, there was no LFG system, no arena and no battlegrounds. So not sure what you are saying on your second point? ?_?
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Ugh you are almost making this TOO easy. Let's start, shall we?
1. Problem is.. WG is ONLY for 80's with a queue limit.. It used to be open for anyone in their 70's but that got nerfed.. Secondly WG only happens once ever 2.5 hours, which is not often enough for people in the PvP mood.. I believe the poster was refering to 24/7 action.. Thirdly.. Cat is adding another zone, but that again will be the ONLY single zone for 85 to contest battle in.. How often? 2.5 hours again?
The level cap was put in for a reason. You said it yourself, level 70's were able to get in, but they nerfed that. They nerfed it for a reason. Because level 70s (myself included) complained that it was not fun to fight level 80 players with superior gear and spells compared to yours. Would you like that just to say that you can? hey to each his own, but you still can, its called world PVP and it happens every where in WoW on a pvp server.
2. Having a Tol B is good, but what about other aspects of world PvP and incentives.. Halaa used to be one.. Anyone still remember the towers in Terr. Forrest? or the towers in Zanga.. They were mini versions of world PvP with a purpose, or the towers in Hellfire, I just think they needed to add more fun and incentive to them, instead of just standing at tower for 2 minutes to flag it.. However WoTLK didn't even scratch that mechanic.. If anything, WoW de-PvP itself in LK and I don't see any change in Cat..
The tower control thing was fun, so they decided to turn it into an entire zone (Wintergrasp) The time limit was set in because it just WASNT fun to take back towers only for it to be taken back seconds later. A perpetual tug of war if you will. This was exploitable because a set group or faction could control them indefinitely. Thats where the time limits evolved from. Trust me, its a GOOD thing, many players (including myself) campaigned for them because it wasnt fun to be locked out for HOURS or DAYS because we didnt have enough PVPers on our side to help out every hour of the day ( it happened in Terokkar before they fixed it). Winergrasp is a direct evolution of the Towers in Eastern Plaguelands, Terrokar, The stadiums in Hellfire Peninsula, and Halaa, and Tol barad is Wintergrasp's successor.
5. well fel reavers aren't zone wide, they do have a bigger path tho, and Doom Lord never moves.. , Tyrm the Hope Ender in WotLK. All Tyrm does is walk up and down 500 yards of road.. very noticable and very avoidable.. These are some just some examples, and Ctataclysm has some mobs that are similar. I like mobs that can blend in with the rest, and if you aren't paying attention.. BOOM, you might end up in the graveyard.. lol I mean really.. you have to be a complete nincompoop to grab agro from a fel reaver or Tyrm..
Tell that to 5 million players over the life of TBC that got "Ganked" by the Fel Reaver. My ENTIRE guild included. Im not lying, hes a sneaky bastard. lol. Read the forums. Blizzard had to fix that too. But seriously though what you are asking for is a bit rediculous. You are saying you want a 50 foot tall boss mob that you CANT see coming a mile away. Seriously? Logically, any wandering zone mob that mattered is made to be seen miles away so that if you are not prepared to take it on, you wont get caught by it. and Fel Reaver didnt walk far? he walked almost all of Hellfire! Granted he didnt walk everywhere but come on now, you can logically see there was a few places too inconvenient to make a mob that big patrol through.
6. Balance for what.. Everyone keeps using catch phrases like "balance" and have no clue what it is.. Balance ONLY applies to PvP action.. If you are only focusing on PvE, balance doesn't come into play if the game is designed right..
Um, balance in the sense as one class doesn't totally overpower another class. if you play one class, there was another class that their skills countered every single one of your skills, and if you ever met that class on the battlefield, there was no way for you to win other than the other player NOT pressing any buttons. Balance is when all classes are equal to one another, and not one cant beat another easily. Thats the definition of balance. and its pretty widely known. Yes balance only applies to pvp, but EVERY CLASS IS USED FOR PVP. Therefore every class has to be in balance with every other class.
7. I'm pretty sure there will be NO new classes, not even hero in the next expansion.. Blizzard wasnt' even happy with adding the DK and wanted to avoid adding it..
No they said they werent happy with how Death Knight TURNED OUT. But they said that more hero classes ARE coming, just not in Cata. Now you are right, they didnt say in the next expansion either, but they didnt deny it either, get it? They did say more are coming though.
I did for 5 years with Six raid geared 80 toons.. I give high marks to WoW as a casual leveling game.. Grade B+.. But for end game, it losed all it's punch.. Grade D+.. maybe C- if Im in a good mood..
In comparison to which other MMOs end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out right now. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predominant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve Online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it successfully? I don't know about you, but it doesn't to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
Just wanted to add to what said above (on which I agree about 100%) that Balance is NOT just for PvP!
Heck! Healers must be balanced with each other, so must tanks or then you get in the situation we had in Vanilla in which Druids could do just one thing at end game: Heal. So could Paladin and the only good Tank was a Warrior.
They have to keep this in account and they have come a loooong way from Vanilla with now 4 different tanks, all viable and 4 different healers, also viable in all slots possible.
So Balance != PvP. not by a long shot.
And let's not speak of DPS with their recount whines and things like that.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Comments
Mean? haa..considering your sarcasm in last post i am being a prefect gentleman here. Didn't you just insult me for someone being with lesser standards because i just want to enjoy polished and quality content and not too much bothered by whole innovation thing? i don't know what you play games for but i just want to have fun in whatever 2 or 3 hours a day i get. I want to feel i accomplished something in those few hours and feel that i have a reason to log in back again tomorrow.. Thats is the kind of experince i am looking for. I don't play video games to feel better about myself or to create a seperate identity from others which a lot of players do on these forums.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Man... there is sure a lot of whining in this thread.
Its really simple. If you don't like WoW or the direction Blizzard has taken with it or its expansions, don't play it. They are developing their game in the direction that will please their existing customers and draw in new ones. No one should have ever expected them to radically alter their game with an expansion pack. Nor should anyone expect them to start trending in a sandbox direction... especially since sandbox games are generally neither accessible to casual players nor very successful. Blizzard is not going to start implementing features from failed game models. That is just not what they do... which is probably why they are so successful.
As for the complaints about the supposed lack of 'new' content: I think you are really just upset about the lack of sandox content. Which, as I said above, is ridiculous. There is TONS of new content in the expansion. Just because you don't like it does not mean that Blizzard's 12+ million subscribers don't. I think most of their players will be very happy with Cataclysm. As for the rest of you... I don't think Blizzard really gives a rats arse what the tiny sandbox niche thinks.
Keep it civil, or keep it to yourself please.
Sad this is what this whole topic is all about. Mis placed expectations. Everyone knew what CATA was offering, players need to do a little bit of more research before buying the product. Ignorance is no excuse.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
My last post was brilliant, gdi.
I, for the first time in weeks, read the entire thread. Only thing missing was the popcorn!
I like what they did with the level 1-60 areas. Having fun with that.
However, it is really sad how many things they should have done, long ago, but still haven't.
I think they talked about housing as a future feature when the game first came out. Six years later, still nothing.
They hyped up Hero classes. We finally got Death Knights, but they couldn't manage a second one for this expansion. Maybe we'll get another one in two years? Or never?
Crafting still sucks. In addition to the overhaul to Azeroth, they really should have completely redone recipes for armor and weapons crafting and tweaked the other crafts as well.
Why no dyes for armor?
Why no revamp on the poor character models? (They could have done what EQ2 did with the SOGA models and allowed people to chose between old and new).
Why no new character customization options at all?
Why not have a system like Aion or LotRO, to allow people to chose their look, independant of stats?
The game hasn't evolved, heck it hasn't even delivered on most of the features they talked about adding after launch.
BTW, I have to say I tried Worgen last night and personally found them horrible. How did they manage to take a few steps back with character design and animations? The rest of WoW is stuck in 2004, but the Worgen look like a step back to 2001!?!?!?!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Agreed Chrisnel
I would of loved to see more contested presistant action in the game.. instead of revamping everything.. I would love loved to see more open world events and activities.. such as new zones from 1 to 85 that have cities in which to build, destroy or fight over.. something like a never ending WG? or Nagrand?.. Something like AV.. Imagine an AV zone that each side has to build their own side, to access quest and perks.. While your enemy tries to destroy it, or fights in the middle.. Something, anything that is persistant would been nice.. Towers to take, towers to hold, earning patrol guards that NEVER lose agro in the zone.. etc etc.. Put some ACTION in the open world..
I would of loved to see something similar that on a PvE side too.. a zone with a horde side and alliance side.. both sides have to defend their city (which has to be built and maintained) to earn quest and perks .. Every so many minutes a army of mobs raid both cities to destroy it.. your faction must defend it or lose your perks and rebuild it..
I like the idea of having some zones that are a tug of war of take or defend.. back and forth with a PURPOSE.. not a constant follow the breakcrumb quest system
Wow is still fun and im enjoying cata. However, now more than ever i am longing for the next crop of mmorpgs to come out. I dont have anything against wow or blizz, i just need something new.. something else.
After playing through the entire Worgen starting area all I have to say is that it was extremely disappointing. I think there was only like small handful of different kinds quests and the rest were all a bunch of go fetch or go kill quests all over again. Then hopped on my troll druid and started leveling in the Barrens again. Pretty much the same as my Worgen experience, small handful of different quests and the rest were all fedex quests yet again. Probably the worst $40.00 I ever spent on an epansion. Lich King was so much better than this. Can't wait for newer mmos to come.
I agree that they didn't innovate much.
What should they have done?
1. Destructable environments, buildings crumble, doors bashed in, wood structures can be set on fire and burn to the ground.
2. horde and alliance cities being able to be taken over with benefits that effect the faction holding the city similar to the city Halaa in TBC but actual main hub locations.
3. noticable damage on player characters. From simple scuff marks to actual limbs falling off.
4. More dynamic content. Caravans the were not there yesterday selling fun wears. Mobs that roam the whole zone. I don't want to feel "safe" in my capital city all the time.
5. give us an epic level of interesting content that is challenging to beat in an expansion..examples of this content would be EQ expansion "The Planes of Power".
6. More class choices. The current number of classes has not changed much from the original. Sure they have 3 specs but those three specs aren't interesting enuff after so many years. Breath new life into them.
7. Hero classes. Why so few....a class shouldn't take 6 years to make. You should be able to come out with at least 2 every six months.
8. Hosted tournaments online every 2 weeks where the top winners walk away with real world prizes like WoW keyboard, WoW mouse, Nice video card, Ram sticks, Nice cpu, etc.
All of these things could have blown the roof off of WoW but.....I do not think anything like what I have listed made it in. I left a while back due to the lack of innovation. Maybe someone actually playing now can tell me.
I think that is the reason Blizzard moved their best person (Kaplan) from Wow to Titan (as the rumor say the new game is called, it can be something else).
It is probably better to continue with what made Wow large and put the creativity into the next game instead. Changing too much might be a risk, we all know the three letters NGE...
^^ This.
While I am not in favor of all of these, even some would have been outstanding. The chance to innovate and doing something new and spectacular is what Blizzard should have been shooting for. But, alas . . . the cash cow must live on!
Power to the casual gamer non-MMO gamer.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
But wouldn't it be both easier and smarter to add all those stuff to the next game instead of a 6 year old one? I am pretty sure many of the players are pretty happy with Wow for what it is, with new ideas like this and other (they are good ideas BTW) they can get a new bunch of player instead and possibly still keep the Wow players at the same time.
Stuff like this do take pretty long time to implement as well.
Yes. It is smarter and better business for Blizzard, which was my point in an earlier post. The reason I left WOW over a year ago was for reasons stated. Nothing new and in fact it is dumbing down. Small level cap changes, a chance to really push the the gear grind, forcing "alt city" . . . all because of the lack of anything new. They keep their revenues high and the casual happy. Its good business for Blizzard. For the rest of the gaming community (non-casual, wow is my only game crowd), it is a let down. Of Course, Blizzard didn't do anything innovative. There's no point in working hard to keep WOW on top, its already there and there is no chance of it falling in the foreseeable future.
This is just the lamenting of a dissatisfied customer hoping that a company with deep pockets and nothing to lose (as WOW will still be number one for another decade) would take a chance and push the enelope of creative and strike us gamers with shock and thunder so we all could awe-struck.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
This is a reply to Thorrpes Post, which was a reply to my original comment:
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into World of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admitted to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I don't think I will be seeing that anytime soon. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game, not because they are lazy. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into WOrld of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admiited to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I dont think they will tell me they are not putting it into the game because they are lazy. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
Let me copy and reiterate what I said
Blizzard will not implement a system that has proven to be unsuccessful into their game. Every game that has all these features are looked upon by players as "failures". The only game that even comes close to a good example is Lords of the Rings Online. even this one has problems:
1) They only have player housing. and even this system is not that popluar with fans as it is essentially only a second bank.
2) Them being "successful" even in the context that I use is debatable because it is generally believed that they switched to a free to play model because LotRO were not as successful as Turbine had initially hoped.
3) Even Turbine said that there are certain features that they will not put into their game because it would not fit into the the games playstyle ( example: world pvp besides MOnster play, if you can call that world pvp). I guess Turbine are lazy too. huh? Lets not forget that they implemented what is viewed as the most complicated thing you can do to an MMO today short of implementing an "NGE", which was to completely migrate to a FREE TO PLAY model.
To reiterate ONCE again, just in case. It is a not a very efficient and smart business move to add something to a game that is proven to be unsuccessful in other games. I think we can all agree on these boards that large profit margins and uppermanagement ultimately decide the direction of a game. If you made a game that was insanely successful and saw a competitors game that had a feature you didnt have, but was shown to be unsuccessul and not gaining a profit. Would you implement it for the hell of it? or to prove you are not lazy to a few of your fans who believe you are lazy? You would be fired without a second thought. I think Sony Online Entertainment and their devs for SWG learned this the very hard way.
Consider this: Blizzard is NOTORIOUSLY known for taking features from other games and implementing them into WOrld of Warcraft in a more "polished" state, and they have done this with numerous features and have even themselves admiited to doing this. So why on earth would these THREE features (because world pvp "that matters" is already implemented) would be the exception to the rule that is pretty much the method that the game owes its entire success too?
I think you are just making an excuse to make yourself feel better for something that you would like to see in the game, but is not. I would like space combat in the game. I dont think they will tell me they are not putting it into the game because they are lazy. I think it would be because it doesnt fit the style of the game. But hey thats just me /sarcam off.
1. This has been done since WotLK. Its called WINTERGASP. In Cataclysm the new zone is TOL BARAD. it has destructible buildings and pvp goals just like WINTERGRASP.
2. Horde and alliance cities CANNOT be taken over because that would lock out MILLIONS of players from quests. Especially with the redesigned cities where they are the main places to go beside Deepholm. Tol Barad can be captured though
3. Not many games have this. And if they do, the game is graphic intensive ( Example: Age of Conan) and graphic intensive games are not favored among casual gamers.
4. Caravans that were are not there all the time exist. Darkmoon Faire is one example. Also Blizzard uses "Phasing" Technology to implement this.
5. There are MOBS that roam the world ot at least zones since Vanilla WoW. World dragons and Kazzak in Vanilla, Fel Reaver and Doom Lord Kazzak in TBC, Tyrm the Hope Ender in WotLK. These are some just some examples, and Ctataclysm has some mobs that are similar.
6. More Classes. There are already 10 classes in WoW. Not many games have this many. They also totally redesigned all the specs, they do not feel like the old specs, which were already changed in WotLK. Also more classes would imbalance the game as the classes already implemented still need to be tweaked.
7. Hero Classes. Read above. Also the first Hero class was introduced last expansion. Next hero class is next expansion. They are suppose to be rare, not a dime a dozen.
8. Tournaments are hosted. but not every 2 weeks. No game can do that. They host Arena tournaments every season with cash prizes up to $25,000 for winners, and various computers, electronics and peripherals for runner ups.
You really need to play the game in its current state before making assumptions.
If ever housing would hit WoW as guild halls first. I would not be surprised if it would be better than anything that has been done in that domain, something Like a polished housing feature tied to some grinding/achievement system
I don't see player cities as it will end in either or both messy/ghost cities hitting WoW anytime soon. However instanced player houses/apartments in NPC cities that could work.
Politics... I put it along socialization. For Blizzard it's mostly limited to seeing people with better gear than yours at the AH.
Simply put don't even dream about it.
That being said there's one thing that's seriously missing in WoW and it's killing the fun: a social clothing tab topped with gear dyes.
Because let's be honest it really sucks either looking like twins or having mismatched gear. Kinda lame. But we all know it's on purpose.
Have fun reading my blog: Time to get rid of the ICONIC look
WG has been broken since it's release. Dunno after last 'fix' thoough. One side dominated on every server. Absolutely fail.
Fantastic suggestions! Even moere than I could come up. Well, without too much thinking
WoW is nothing more than offering 'even more polished content' of the same stuff since it's release. It is definately not in lead when it comes to innovative design & new game features. If anyone do belive so, they are definately living in denial.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I'd love to ask how you know every server's WG has been broken. You must have a lot of characters.
I can tell you the servers I've been in (Lothar, Aman'Thul and Caelstraze(spelling?)) have relatively even wins/loss ratio up to about 3 months ago.
It has been releasing content since release since when it launched, there was no LFG system, no arena and no battlegrounds. So not sure what you are saying on your second point? ?_?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Ugh you are almost making this TOO easy. Let's start, shall we?
1. Problem is.. WG is ONLY for 80's with a queue limit.. It used to be open for anyone in their 70's but that got nerfed.. Secondly WG only happens once ever 2.5 hours, which is not often enough for people in the PvP mood.. I believe the poster was refering to 24/7 action.. Thirdly.. Cat is adding another zone, but that again will be the ONLY single zone for 85 to contest battle in.. How often? 2.5 hours again?
The level cap was put in for a reason. You said it yourself, level 70's were able to get in, but they nerfed that. They nerfed it for a reason. Because level 70s (myself included) complained that it was not fun to fight level 80 players with superior gear and spells compared to yours. Would you like that just to say that you can? hey to each his own, but you still can, its called world PVP and it happens every where in WoW on a pvp server.
2. Having a Tol B is good, but what about other aspects of world PvP and incentives.. Halaa used to be one.. Anyone still remember the towers in Terr. Forrest? or the towers in Zanga.. They were mini versions of world PvP with a purpose, or the towers in Hellfire, I just think they needed to add more fun and incentive to them, instead of just standing at tower for 2 minutes to flag it.. However WoTLK didn't even scratch that mechanic.. If anything, WoW de-PvP itself in LK and I don't see any change in Cat..
The tower control thing was fun, so they decided to turn it into an entire zone (Wintergrasp) The time limit was set in because it just WASNT fun to take back towers only for it to be taken back seconds later. A perpetual tug of war if you will. This was exploitable because a set group or faction could control them indefinitely. Thats where the time limits evolved from. Trust me, its a GOOD thing, many players (including myself) campaigned for them because it wasnt fun to be locked out for HOURS or DAYS because we didnt have enough PVPers on our side to help out every hour of the day ( it happened in Terokkar before they fixed it). Winergrasp is a direct evolution of the Towers in Eastern Plaguelands, Terrokar, The stadiums in Hellfire Peninsula, and Halaa, and Tol barad is Wintergrasp's successor.
5. well fel reavers aren't zone wide, they do have a bigger path tho, and Doom Lord never moves.. , Tyrm the Hope Ender in WotLK. All Tyrm does is walk up and down 500 yards of road.. very noticable and very avoidable.. These are some just some examples, and Ctataclysm has some mobs that are similar. I like mobs that can blend in with the rest, and if you aren't paying attention.. BOOM, you might end up in the graveyard.. lol I mean really.. you have to be a complete nincompoop to grab agro from a fel reaver or Tyrm..
Tell that to 5 million players over the life of TBC that got "Ganked" by the Fel Reaver. My ENTIRE guild included. Im not lying, hes a sneaky bastard. lol. Read the forums. Blizzard had to fix that too. But seriously though what you are asking for is a bit rediculous. You are saying you want a 50 foot tall boss mob that you CANT see coming a mile away. Seriously? Logically, any wandering zone mob that mattered is made to be seen miles away so that if you are not prepared to take it on, you wont get caught by it. and Fel Reaver didnt walk far? he walked almost all of Hellfire! Granted he didnt walk everywhere but come on now, you can logically see there was a few places too inconvenient to make a mob that big patrol through.
6. Balance for what.. Everyone keeps using catch phrases like "balance" and have no clue what it is.. Balance ONLY applies to PvP action.. If you are only focusing on PvE, balance doesn't come into play if the game is designed right..
Um, balance in the sense as one class doesn't totally overpower another class. if you play one class, there was another class that their skills countered every single one of your skills, and if you ever met that class on the battlefield, there was no way for you to win other than the other player NOT pressing any buttons. Balance is when all classes are equal to one another, and not one cant beat another easily. Thats the definition of balance. and its pretty widely known. Yes balance only applies to pvp, but EVERY CLASS IS USED FOR PVP. Therefore every class has to be in balance with every other class.
7. I'm pretty sure there will be NO new classes, not even hero in the next expansion.. Blizzard wasnt' even happy with adding the DK and wanted to avoid adding it..
No they said they werent happy with how Death Knight TURNED OUT. But they said that more hero classes ARE coming, just not in Cata. Now you are right, they didnt say in the next expansion either, but they didnt deny it either, get it? They did say more are coming though.
I did for 5 years with Six raid geared 80 toons.. I give high marks to WoW as a casual leveling game.. Grade B+.. But for end game, it losed all it's punch.. Grade D+.. maybe C- if Im in a good mood..
In comparison to which other MMOs end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out right now. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predominant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve Online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it successfully? I don't know about you, but it doesn't to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
In comparison to what other games end game? There are currently only two forms of end game out there. The gear grinding like WoW, and Wow's system is arguably one of the best in that category, if not the best. or theres the "do whatever the heck you want" end game. (Read: NO endgame) like Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies. This system is predomionant in "sandbox" games. Currently only Eve online is thriving with this system. Seems like a proven successful system to you if only one game is currently using it wll? not to me.
Just wanted to add to what said above (on which I agree about 100%) that Balance is NOT just for PvP!
Heck! Healers must be balanced with each other, so must tanks or then you get in the situation we had in Vanilla in which Druids could do just one thing at end game: Heal. So could Paladin and the only good Tank was a Warrior.
They have to keep this in account and they have come a loooong way from Vanilla with now 4 different tanks, all viable and 4 different healers, also viable in all slots possible.
So Balance != PvP. not by a long shot.
And let's not speak of DPS with their recount whines and things like that.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"