The problem is you had maybe less then 100 days of /played on your EQ account so you dont understand why some of the fixes were put into the game. MMORPG is supposed to bring people together and group together, not make grouping a chore and something to be dreaded. not everyone has 4 hrs to waste on TRYING to get a group together every time they log into EQ and PUG's arent exactly the most reliable way of getting things done since there were still alot of idiots out there.
you are kidding? in the early days 100 days playtime was just enough to level to 60. i had more then 400 days ingame. yes i played alot
i am with you, that these things have been issues, but with every issue they fixed, they destroyed something worthful in terms of gameplay.
e.g. warriors complained. that fights are boring, because they are just smashing 1 button for minutes. so they introduced the so called "fast paced action oriented combat". i hate it wholeheartily, because they destroyed any room for versatility for all mage classes this way. nowadays you could give warriors special moves and nice abilities with great animations, so they enjoy longer fights, too. but it is the wrong way to shorten fights and the skills to 5-10 sec. this just leads to dull hack&slash orgies without any tactical challenge.
you dont like to LFG for hours? i never waited so long, but however. a LFG-tool would not harm. but again, first think about the consequences and then implement it right.
why was EQ1 so great? it was great due to all these bad things people whined about. so people whined and the devs made EQ2 and WoW, a fully dull and refined theme-park. even EQ1 became worthless and boring after they "improved" it and fixed many of these "issues" with later expansions.
1. classes have been mostly unbalanced: [...]
2. mob encounters have been mostly unrefined: [...]
3. pathing was horrible: [...]
4. players had to compete about mobs: [...]
5. you could train: [...]
6. you could killsteel: [...]
7. mobs didnt reset correctly: [...]
8. death was harsh: [...]
9. travelling needed time: [...]
10. you could twink and powerlevel: [...]
11. orientation was tricky: [...]
Uh.
I dont think "unbalanced classes" is really what you want. If class A sucks and class B is better in every respect, the game just sucks. For every disadvantage a person gets, you need to give them an advantage as compensation.
So what you really seem to want is HARSH differences. Make every class have a HUGE advantage in SOME field.
correct, i like to see huge advantages and huge disadvantages. of course this is harder to balance, especially if all classes should be worthful for raid, group and solo. perhaps some better in solo, others better in groups ,,,
nowadays you got just jacks-of-all-trades. the devs balanced classes up to 100%. nobody is able to whine anymore. sure, they got no classes anymore. its all the same
Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak why was EQ1 so great? it was great due to all these bad things people whined about.1. classes have been mostly unbalanced 2. mob encounters have been mostly unrefined 3. pathing was horrible 4. players had to compete about mobs 5. you could train 6. you could killsteal 7. mobs didnt reset correctly 8. death was harsh 9. travelling needed time 10. you could twink and powerlevel 11. orientation was tricky
LOL alot of these things are what make EQ1 great. Compete for spawns, traning, killstealing, harsh death, travel times and twinking were great. I loved training spectres and sand giants on people in Oasis. I did that for hours and loved watching people die. Whats your point?
I fully expect SOE to make EQ Next more like modern games rather than old school games. SOE knows their money and they won't risk making less money by going the old school niche route. While I'm cautiously optimistic, I know Smed will have his say and he'll turn the game more like EQ2 & Free Realms rather than EQ1.
This isn't all bad if they can find a good balance between old school & new modern. The problem is I don't know if SOE is capable of such thing. They did mention about coming out with a "hardcore" server ruleset for those that enjoy the old school tedium. So that in itself tells you they aren't going to make the standard game like old school.
I don't blame them really, who would want to make less money? But I do wish they would keep some of what makes EQ great. Things like lore, deities, class choices, vast open worlds, option to level via killing mobs rather than counting the number of quests you can finish, etc..
I fully expect SOE to make EQ Next more like modern games rather than old school games. SOE knows their money and they won't risk making less money by going the old school niche route. While I'm cautiously optimistic, I know Smed will have his say and he'll turn the game more like EQ2 & Free Realms rather than EQ1.
This isn't all bad if they can find a good balance between old school & new modern. The problem is I don't know if SOE is capable of such thing. They did mention about coming out with a "hardcore" server ruleset for those that enjoy the old school tedium. So that in itself tells you they aren't going to make the standard game like old school.
I don't blame them really, who would want to make less money? But I do wish they would keep some of what makes EQ great. Things like lore, deities, class choices, vast open worlds, option to level via killing mobs rather than counting the number of quests you can finish, etc..
Problem being all the new games don't make money becuase those players have homes. There's good money to be had from a AAA "old school" game.
Copy classic EQ, complete with hell levels, exp loss and corpse runs. Then make all dungeons and raid zones private instances. Perfection in mmo.
I have been a player of EQ through all the hell levels, the corpse dragging, not being able to enter because your key was on your corpse, not finding your corpse, someone moving your corpse just to spite you, someone binding you in a spot just to spite you.
If my memory serves correctly you had to give persmission for people to drag your corpse. Who were you letting drag your body around?
Losing your corpse's location was a case of not paying attention while running afk and in my opinion that would be player fault.
I liked the corpse dragging idea, granted rogues probably didn't after a while (hehe).
I'm not saying EQ was perfect (far from it - forced grouping to do anything for most classes, PoK making factions and cities pointless etc).
I don't think there will be another really challenging MMO for quite some time, if ever. I doubt EQNext will be it. SOE has shown time and again it's after the money and that simply doesn't lie in what is now a niche market. People want to win, be patted on the back and coddled. That brings in the money and thus is what SOE will chase.
Companies still deep down want to create another WoW.
If my memory serves correctly you had to give persmission for people to drag your corpse. Who were you letting drag your body around?
You could set group permission. If the person dragging your corpse went LD, lost your corpse or was just an asshole, you would lose your corpse. Nothing a necro summon and an hour wasted couldn't fix. But not enjoyable.
Losing your corpse's location was a case of not paying attention while running afk and in my opinion that would be player fault.
No it more often than not wasn't your fault. I believe /loc wasn't in the game at first and we had no maps.
I think people who liked corpse dragging didn't play EQ very long or maybe they were just lucky. I had my corpse locked in several zones where I couldn't get it out. I was bound by accident next to a mob, losing about 4 levels (a few weeks of playing back then) in the process and had to get GM assistance to get my levels back, which took a phonecall to SoE at the time.
In short, no it wasn't fun, not at all.
If a game like EQ was back then (not now) launched tomorrow, no one would play it and it would be a failure. SoE knows this and doesn't need me telling them that, but some people seem to be under the misconception that that's what EQNext is going to be like, I'm sorry to disappoint those people, but it won't, SoE isn't completely moronic.
I am aware there were no maps and am sure /loc was in at launch (though granted most people found it hard to work out). However there were landmarks in each and every zone, most people I knew could find ther way around without too much hardship and find a way back to the rough area if not the exact pinpoint location if they ever died. Corpse retrieval in deep dungeons or PoFear I agree were messy at times but they are memories I have of EQ that stick with me, and the people I met and did the recoveries with are among some of the people I am still in touch with even today, a decade later.
I was aware of the group permission for corpsedragging but that was off by default, and again would be up to the player to turn it on. I can imagine someone could get really unlucky and have someone they put trust in screw them over, but it's not as if random joe came along and out of spite screwed over a player. Permission was needed, whether given individually or by turning on a feature of the game, you had the choice.
I can sympathis with the death loop story, either by bug or oversight it happened, I won't deny it. It was crappy when it happened.
I can also agree that a copy of EQ1 as it was back in the old days wouldn't be a runaway success in the scope of WoW. However failure is a harsh word, niche would be more apt (unless you consider anything without WoWs sub figures a failure). It would appeal to some but wouldn't have the mass market appeal companies are after nowadays.
The funniest thing of all is that there is already a Eq1,why would Smed consider another??lol,that would be incredibly dumb,even he can't be that dumb.If you want a graphics update get all 10k players and bombard SOE with letters and se if it flies.
Also when Eq2 was first released it had a lot of the hardships Eq1 had,everyone complained and started to run for Wow,so no i am sorry,there is no market for that type of game.
Vanguard made a even yet better version of BOTH EQ1 and 2 and it was not accepted,mainly because the Dx9C graphics were too much for machines at the time,but even with no lagging complaints,the game did not have enough players to warrant trying it again.
Smed still has a few ideas from his Eq franchise that Blizzard has not yet copied,but not enough to sell a whole game on,it is time he or his staff got a little creative.He should go get their Naughty dog [Uncharted] production guys,they at least have the ability to be creative.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Are you under the misconception I want the old EQ?
No thank you. I have fond memories of what it used to be like and some aspects I much prefered over modern games in the genre. However I still remember some of the issues I had with the game (some of those issues still exist in MMOs today).
I have hope that EQNext could be something worth looking into (I have no delusions it will reach WoW figures) and having some fun. However I believe it will be another by the numbers MMO that will follow the current formulae of MMOs trying to get a hit like WoW and ending up with a niche consumer base.
By the way the EQ of today is nothing like the EQ that existed back in the day.
The funniest thing of all is that there is already a Eq1,why would Smed consider another??lol,that would be incredibly dumb,even he can't be that dumb.If you want a graphics update get all 10k players and bombard SOE with letters and se if it flies.
Also when Eq2 was first released it had a lot of the hardships Eq1 had,everyone complained and started to run for Wow,so no i am sorry,there is no market for that type of game.
Vanguard made a even yet better version of BOTH EQ1 and 2 and it was not accepted,mainly because the Dx9C graphics were too much for machines at the time,but even with no lagging complaints,the game did not have enough players to warrant trying it again.
Smed still has a few ideas from his Eq franchise that Blizzard has not yet copied,but not enough to sell a whole game on,it is time he or his staff got a little creative.He should go get their Naughty dog [Uncharted] production guys,they at least have the ability to be creative.
This is wrong on many levels.
First of all, yes there's an EQ1, but Smed won't fork over the cash to upgrade the character models. It's been asked for every year, even the developers agree they need to update them. But developers don't sign the checks, Smed & management do.
EQ2 is nothing like EQ1, not when it was released, not now several years later. EQ2 has its own problems, and yes it lost out when it went head to head with WoW. Nobody will disagree with that. But to use EQ2 as a reason why an updated EQ1 won't work is rubbish. EQ1 had higher population than EQ2 for over 2 years after EQ2 launched. This should show you that even within Everquest franchise, SOE's realm, that many players preferred EQ1 over 2 for quite awhile. Yes this means even EQ1 players didn't like EQ2. Right now though with EQ2X I'm sure EQ2 is more populated than EQ1. But that really has more to do with SOE choosing to prop up EQ2 and pumping the msot money into EQ2 than anything.
Vanguard wasn't an SOE game. It was made by Brad McQuaid, but he wasn't with SOE when he created VG. Vanguard may or may not have worked had they actually finished the game on-time and within budget. They did neither, the game was launched 2 years ahead of being finished, and Sigil went bankrupt. So Vanguard should not be used as an example to whether or not an EQ1 remake would work. VG by definition failed before it even launched.
None of which you listed really show people that a remake of upgraded EQ1 won't work today. However, I'll agree that Smed is a big problem here, the guy wants to take SOE in a different direction and left their loyal playerbase to dry. They're going with quanity over quality, they're pumping games out and spreading their "shared resources" thin. So instead of having 1 or 2 blockbuster games, they end up running 6+ games while barely staffing them with enough dev resources to keep players happy.
Couldn't agree more. Soe under Smedley has transformed into a "higher" quality and more money sort of Cryptic which means pumping out unfinished games like crazy. Yes Ncsoft does pump out games too, but at least they are more bug free, finished than all Soe products together.
The future of this industry is soon to become strong again = different games for different audiences. One game for everyone won't work in the not so far away future. There will again be niche games with a smaller but steady playerbase, which in the long run can mean more money!
Smedley himself is the biggest problem for Everquest next I really don't know what has to happen until this pure excuse of a CEO is getting fired. This guy had everything in place for a great future and yet he killed almost all franchises with his stupid "resource share, pay 2 win ideas, item shop crap and of course unfinished games".
I don't even give a rats but about people claiming there won't be a market for niche games, of course there is.
Even Vanguard after all the horrific scenarios had 200.000 k subs after the first week, now imagine what a finished Vanguard with enough ressources what have done for the oldschool crowd? Right giving them a new home and Sigil a huge amount of $. People are so easily forgetting games such as Blizzards one are the exception not the norm and never ever will be, like playing in the N H L is the exception not the norm. Keep in mind almost 70 % of the community left after Sigil partnershipped with Soe again!
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
EQ was in no way/shape/form what is accepted to be a sandbox around these parts.
There was no mix/match with skills. Every class was firmly set, and only the most dedicated filled out all the Alternate Advancement.
No crafter based economy with dropped loot taking a back seat
No user generated content either via housing nor user created quests.
Pvp was about 4 whole servers...roughly 7 to 10% of the servers(EQ has between 40 and 50 servers in its prime).
There was a nice huge open world, with lots of various factions.....which was pretty much as sandboxy as EQ was. Folks bitch here constantly about "No one is making sandboxes". Do they think WoW was the first to show themepark sells? From the time EQ launched, until the time WoW overtook it, EQ had the most subs in NA....and it wasnt even close.
EQ WAS about open world, time sinks, and brutal lessons learned. Loot was the theme of the game, the proverbial "carrot on a stick", and folks worked together to help their friends/guildies to acheieve it. For the raiders, there was pretty much a progession of content to do when each expansion launched.
So when there is a thread talking about EQnext, and these sandbox folks start talking about making EQnext for them I gotta just shake my head.
EQ could work in todays market. Like WoW, those crazy timesinks need to be removed. Unless you have sat in your chair for over 24 hrs straight, trying to get a mob, you have no clue just how demanding EQ was. Or losing your body on a Hate breakin, and waiting all night in hopes that your body didnt rot. This despite the fact you gotta be to work in an hr.
EQ was lessening the commitment when I quit in 06(played from Feb 01 till mid 06). I would bet it is still one of the more demanding games out there....and that style just doesnt sell these days.
Tune the classes kind of like EQ2 in that several classes can function in the trinity roles, rather than requiring grps to have cleric/warrior to go along with either a chanter or shammy(or even bard/BST) for slowing/hasting, and someone to snare/pull. The Holy trinity used to be a drag for the other classes.
I saw someone mention lowering the time between spawns....highly agree with. 3 days should be a max spawn, with the norm being 8 hrs or less IMO. You dont wanna hand things to folks, but you dont want them to be stupid about it either. There was a once per game yr mob that spawned in North Ro I helped kill my first month of EQ in 01......totally mega rare items like that would make for a nice badge(say kill 5 mega rare for the "Patient Hunter" badge etc). You do that for the totally dedicated....not those just wishing to advance their character.
I also agree with lowering time required to beat each mob....to go along with less down time. I wouldnt pace it like WoW/CoH though, as that downtime gets folks to communicating in grps.
Someone else also mentioned keeping dungeons/raids as instanced....the rest as persistent world. Places like Guk work better as a persistent area with various camps IMO, so I would keep stuff as EQ was when I left in 06....you go thru the various zones to get to the area you want to raid/do certain instanced grp tasks.
Instant travel is fine...AFTER the person has made the various Karana runs. When Velious first launched, you would have to get a "key" from the druid circle to be able to be gated into the new content. That means you had to take the long route to get there the first time. It gives scale to a grand world to run it the first time IMO. I would break the instant travel points up though, and not have everything in a zone like PoK. PoK pretty much took away reliance on too many zones. Give folks short cuts(after the first run), but keep them visiting a few areas to keep the work "alive".
Oh Hell no on quest markers. Names on top of a persons head is enough IMO. I would want the click thru seen in modern MMOs though once I do interact with NPCs....the days of "What soulfire"....."where is soulfire"...."can I get a soulfire to go" guessing game, for starting quests, doesnt need to return.
No-drop, Bind on pick up, lore, Bind on equip items all served a purpose. It was nice to have older gear you could twink out an alt with.....problem being it created the market for gold sellers. Thus I would only allow items actually looted from one account to be passed to characters on the same account, and then it would still be balanced by level restrictions.....be that out-right not being able to use an item, or a recommended level that reduces the stats when used by a lower level.
Trivial loot code? For those unfamiliar, this was Brads way of making sure higher levels wouldnt farm the lower level content. No good items would drop if the encounter didnt get you exp. I wouldnt go with a TLC. What I would do is spawn an instance for those too high for that area to exp in. All the high levels get relegated to the same instance, with those in the correct lvl range for zone in the persistent area.
And lastly for those hammering about trades.....take a walk over to EQtraders.com (if it is still around). There were tons of trades in EQ. That said, it was pretty much secondary to loot. Which is the system a game should use for an adventure game. EQ wasnt about playing house, or ganking nOObs.....like I stated prior, it was a game where you adventured together with others, collecting things/loot among the way, all in the effort to do even more challenging content.
God I have typed a bunch, and there is still tons of things I would do if EQ-Next was my project. I spent mega hrs in game, and on various sites during my 5+ yrs playing. Until something better comes along according to my tastes, EQ will remain my favorite MMO of all time.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
If my memory serves correctly you had to give persmission for people to drag your corpse. Who were you letting drag your body around?
You could set group permission. If the person dragging your corpse went LD, lost your corpse or was just an asshole, you would lose your corpse. Nothing a necro summon and an hour wasted couldn't fix. But not enjoyable.
Losing your corpse's location was a case of not paying attention while running afk and in my opinion that would be player fault.
No it more often than not wasn't your fault. I believe /loc wasn't in the game at first and we had no maps.
ingame maps are not a bad thing, they are a must have, actually. they should show the landscape in detail with all towns and other places of importance (perhaps not the very hidden ones).
but, there is no need for autodirection. a map should not show NPCs or mobs. the same counts for the minimap of course.
EQ1 had no maps at the beginning. that was wrong. the later maps then had not much details, that was wrong again. a good map should contain all places with their names (forest of xyz, temple of abc, ...). this way the description of NPCs, where to go, could be precise enough, so that we dont need the destination point marked on the map.
ingame maps are not a bad thing, they are a must have, actually. they should show the landscape in detail with all towns and other places of importance (perhaps not the very hidden ones).
but, there is no need for autodirection. a map should not show NPCs or mobs. the same counts for the minimap of course.
EQ1 had no maps at the beginning. that was wrong. the maps then had not much details, that was wrong again. a good map should contain all places with their names (forest of xyz, temple of abc, ...). this way the description of NPCs, where to go, could be precise enough, so that we dont need the destination point marked on the map.
Agreed, but they cold incorporate mystery by having you earn various maps with varying detail.
Also for pvp, while your looking at your map, others would see you holding it. This act would signify your inattentiveness and thus make you vulnerable to be attacked.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I'll agree that taking EQ1 and updating it is a good idea, and adding in a better quest system and crafting system is nice. But leave the vanguard stuff out. Seriously the crafting system in vanguard was the worst I've ever seen in a game ever. Trust me, you make mistakes when you make something the first time in real life, after that you don't make that mistake again if you have a brain. Vanguard had you make the same mistake over and over and over, minigames are not a part of crafting. This isn't puzzel pirates.
Also losing your corpse wasn't always your fault, sometimes it fell through the freaking zone. Pre neco summoning this was a bad thing, especially if your server had no GM.
I'm always amazed at how many people here have forgotten why MMOs have moved past EQ1's gameplay.
Instancing was introduced because dungons were overcamped. No other MMO has had that problem since because "open" dungeon design drives away players in droves.
The last time more than a few thousand people tolerated that kind of thing was about oh, 7 years ago. Kids can go to the mall if they want to socialize while they wait in line.
You'll have an easier time finding a 28.8 modem than getting another MMO that recreates EQ1.
All I ask of EQNext is that they try to get away from the static quest grind. Quests should build toward something more than a bar of exp and a piece of loot. If I'm going to fetch sticks and stones for a NPC all day I want a damn castle there when I get back.
I will erase "SOE" from my memory and pretend they never existed if there's even an ounce of instancing in EQ Next.
I don't care and will never care about the so called "benefits" of instancing. As far as I'm concerned, there aren't any.
The second I enter an instance is the second I lose all immersion.
So incredibly sick and nauseated from all these instanced single player quest grinders. I can't take it anymore.
It's time for a renaissance, a revolution.
Keep it real SOE.
I'm of the complete opposite opinion. It completely breaks my immersion to come across a dungeon that has a block party going on inside it. A dungeon is supposed to be a dangerous foreboding place, not a dance club. Instancing helps give the impression of solidarity for your group within a dungeon. The opposite makes it feel as though there is no danger at all.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I will erase "SOE" from my memory and pretend they never existed if there's even an ounce of instancing in EQ Next.
I don't care and will never care about the so called "benefits" of instancing. As far as I'm concerned, there aren't any.
The second I enter an instance is the second I lose all immersion.
So incredibly sick and nauseated from all these instanced single player quest grinders. I can't take it anymore.
It's time for a renaissance, a revolution.
Keep it real SOE.
I'm of the complete opposite opinion. It completely breaks my immersion to come across a dungeon that has a block party going on inside it. A dungeon is supposed to be a dangerous foreboding place, not a dance club. Instancing helps give the impression of solidarity for your group within a dungeon. The opposite makes it feel as though there is no danger at all.
Then you've got WOW. in fact, WOW will even tell you what your "story" is and tell you how you are the "hero out to save the world," and instance the crap out of your gaming experience so it is not ruined by the presence of another player.
But for the players who want a shared experience, there needs to be a new AAA title, and I hope EQ Next is it. Time for a fully free range, open world, hardcore PVE game to come out.
Well I don't like WOW, besides nothing I said takes away from a shared experience. I just prefer to be the only group in a dungeon, rather than one of a hundred groups running through that dungeon. As much as I loved DAOC and SWG, my biggest complaint was showing up to a hidden cave or tomb that was not so hidden.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Here is what would make it an ideal from my perspective
1. All the original races from EQ1, racial starting areas, etc.
2. The God system from EQ2. I liked that you could devote yourself to a particular deity for a given benefit. Way cool.
3. The ability to pick various crafting professions. No tiered professions.
4. EQ1 class system. I like having my character called a cleric or druid
5. A WoW like talent system. Do away with the needless grind of AAs or have them given as quest rewards. I see no need or fun in divorcing Character Development from leveling. When I level, I want to advance my character then and there, not spend 5 years getting all my AAs. That is not fun.
6. Use the housing system as seen in EQ2. Perfect housing.
7. A diversity of mounts, racial and local.
8. No F2P option for God's Sake. Can we please leave the VIP club alone? I don't want teens who pop their collars to be in my Club Norrath.
9. A seemless open game with homesteading and diplomacy as seen in Vanguard.
That's my wishlist. Some may disagree, but whatever, that happens.
Comments
you are kidding? in the early days 100 days playtime was just enough to level to 60. i had more then 400 days ingame. yes i played alot
i am with you, that these things have been issues, but with every issue they fixed, they destroyed something worthful in terms of gameplay.
e.g. warriors complained. that fights are boring, because they are just smashing 1 button for minutes. so they introduced the so called "fast paced action oriented combat". i hate it wholeheartily, because they destroyed any room for versatility for all mage classes this way. nowadays you could give warriors special moves and nice abilities with great animations, so they enjoy longer fights, too. but it is the wrong way to shorten fights and the skills to 5-10 sec. this just leads to dull hack&slash orgies without any tactical challenge.
you dont like to LFG for hours? i never waited so long, but however. a LFG-tool would not harm. but again, first think about the consequences and then implement it right.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
correct, i like to see huge advantages and huge disadvantages. of course this is harder to balance, especially if all classes should be worthful for raid, group and solo. perhaps some better in solo, others better in groups ,,,
nowadays you got just jacks-of-all-trades. the devs balanced classes up to 100%. nobody is able to whine anymore. sure, they got no classes anymore. its all the same
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
LOL alot of these things are what make EQ1 great. Compete for spawns, traning, killstealing, harsh death, travel times and twinking were great. I loved training spectres and sand giants on people in Oasis. I did that for hours and loved watching people die. Whats your point?
Everyone has their own version of fun.
Copy classic EQ, complete with hell levels, exp loss and corpse runs. Then make all dungeons and raid zones private instances. Perfection in mmo.
I fully expect SOE to make EQ Next more like modern games rather than old school games. SOE knows their money and they won't risk making less money by going the old school niche route. While I'm cautiously optimistic, I know Smed will have his say and he'll turn the game more like EQ2 & Free Realms rather than EQ1.
This isn't all bad if they can find a good balance between old school & new modern. The problem is I don't know if SOE is capable of such thing. They did mention about coming out with a "hardcore" server ruleset for those that enjoy the old school tedium. So that in itself tells you they aren't going to make the standard game like old school.
I don't blame them really, who would want to make less money? But I do wish they would keep some of what makes EQ great. Things like lore, deities, class choices, vast open worlds, option to level via killing mobs rather than counting the number of quests you can finish, etc..
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Problem being all the new games don't make money becuase those players have homes. There's good money to be had from a AAA "old school" game.
I have been a player of EQ through all the hell levels, the corpse dragging, not being able to enter because your key was on your corpse, not finding your corpse, someone moving your corpse just to spite you, someone binding you in a spot just to spite you.
NO THANKS!
Collector's editions are scams.
If my memory serves correctly you had to give persmission for people to drag your corpse. Who were you letting drag your body around?
Losing your corpse's location was a case of not paying attention while running afk and in my opinion that would be player fault.
I liked the corpse dragging idea, granted rogues probably didn't after a while (hehe).
I'm not saying EQ was perfect (far from it - forced grouping to do anything for most classes, PoK making factions and cities pointless etc).
I don't think there will be another really challenging MMO for quite some time, if ever. I doubt EQNext will be it. SOE has shown time and again it's after the money and that simply doesn't lie in what is now a niche market. People want to win, be patted on the back and coddled. That brings in the money and thus is what SOE will chase.
Companies still deep down want to create another WoW.
I think people who liked corpse dragging didn't play EQ very long or maybe they were just lucky. I had my corpse locked in several zones where I couldn't get it out. I was bound by accident next to a mob, losing about 4 levels (a few weeks of playing back then) in the process and had to get GM assistance to get my levels back, which took a phonecall to SoE at the time.
In short, no it wasn't fun, not at all.
If a game like EQ was back then (not now) launched tomorrow, no one would play it and it would be a failure. SoE knows this and doesn't need me telling them that, but some people seem to be under the misconception that that's what EQNext is going to be like, I'm sorry to disappoint those people, but it won't, SoE isn't completely moronic.
Collector's editions are scams.
I am aware there were no maps and am sure /loc was in at launch (though granted most people found it hard to work out). However there were landmarks in each and every zone, most people I knew could find ther way around without too much hardship and find a way back to the rough area if not the exact pinpoint location if they ever died. Corpse retrieval in deep dungeons or PoFear I agree were messy at times but they are memories I have of EQ that stick with me, and the people I met and did the recoveries with are among some of the people I am still in touch with even today, a decade later.
I was aware of the group permission for corpsedragging but that was off by default, and again would be up to the player to turn it on. I can imagine someone could get really unlucky and have someone they put trust in screw them over, but it's not as if random joe came along and out of spite screwed over a player. Permission was needed, whether given individually or by turning on a feature of the game, you had the choice.
I can sympathis with the death loop story, either by bug or oversight it happened, I won't deny it. It was crappy when it happened.
I can also agree that a copy of EQ1 as it was back in the old days wouldn't be a runaway success in the scope of WoW. However failure is a harsh word, niche would be more apt (unless you consider anything without WoWs sub figures a failure). It would appeal to some but wouldn't have the mass market appeal companies are after nowadays.
The funniest thing of all is that there is already a Eq1,why would Smed consider another??lol,that would be incredibly dumb,even he can't be that dumb.If you want a graphics update get all 10k players and bombard SOE with letters and se if it flies.
Also when Eq2 was first released it had a lot of the hardships Eq1 had,everyone complained and started to run for Wow,so no i am sorry,there is no market for that type of game.
Vanguard made a even yet better version of BOTH EQ1 and 2 and it was not accepted,mainly because the Dx9C graphics were too much for machines at the time,but even with no lagging complaints,the game did not have enough players to warrant trying it again.
Smed still has a few ideas from his Eq franchise that Blizzard has not yet copied,but not enough to sell a whole game on,it is time he or his staff got a little creative.He should go get their Naughty dog [Uncharted] production guys,they at least have the ability to be creative.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Are you under the misconception I want the old EQ?
No thank you. I have fond memories of what it used to be like and some aspects I much prefered over modern games in the genre. However I still remember some of the issues I had with the game (some of those issues still exist in MMOs today).
I have hope that EQNext could be something worth looking into (I have no delusions it will reach WoW figures) and having some fun. However I believe it will be another by the numbers MMO that will follow the current formulae of MMOs trying to get a hit like WoW and ending up with a niche consumer base.
By the way the EQ of today is nothing like the EQ that existed back in the day.
This is wrong on many levels.
First of all, yes there's an EQ1, but Smed won't fork over the cash to upgrade the character models. It's been asked for every year, even the developers agree they need to update them. But developers don't sign the checks, Smed & management do.
EQ2 is nothing like EQ1, not when it was released, not now several years later. EQ2 has its own problems, and yes it lost out when it went head to head with WoW. Nobody will disagree with that. But to use EQ2 as a reason why an updated EQ1 won't work is rubbish. EQ1 had higher population than EQ2 for over 2 years after EQ2 launched. This should show you that even within Everquest franchise, SOE's realm, that many players preferred EQ1 over 2 for quite awhile. Yes this means even EQ1 players didn't like EQ2. Right now though with EQ2X I'm sure EQ2 is more populated than EQ1. But that really has more to do with SOE choosing to prop up EQ2 and pumping the msot money into EQ2 than anything.
Vanguard wasn't an SOE game. It was made by Brad McQuaid, but he wasn't with SOE when he created VG. Vanguard may or may not have worked had they actually finished the game on-time and within budget. They did neither, the game was launched 2 years ahead of being finished, and Sigil went bankrupt. So Vanguard should not be used as an example to whether or not an EQ1 remake would work. VG by definition failed before it even launched.
None of which you listed really show people that a remake of upgraded EQ1 won't work today. However, I'll agree that Smed is a big problem here, the guy wants to take SOE in a different direction and left their loyal playerbase to dry. They're going with quanity over quality, they're pumping games out and spreading their "shared resources" thin. So instead of having 1 or 2 blockbuster games, they end up running 6+ games while barely staffing them with enough dev resources to keep players happy.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Couldn't agree more. Soe under Smedley has transformed into a "higher" quality and more money sort of Cryptic which means pumping out unfinished games like crazy. Yes Ncsoft does pump out games too, but at least they are more bug free, finished than all Soe products together.
The future of this industry is soon to become strong again = different games for different audiences. One game for everyone won't work in the not so far away future. There will again be niche games with a smaller but steady playerbase, which in the long run can mean more money!
Smedley himself is the biggest problem for Everquest next I really don't know what has to happen until this pure excuse of a CEO is getting fired. This guy had everything in place for a great future and yet he killed almost all franchises with his stupid "resource share, pay 2 win ideas, item shop crap and of course unfinished games".
I don't even give a rats but about people claiming there won't be a market for niche games, of course there is.
Even Vanguard after all the horrific scenarios had 200.000 k subs after the first week, now imagine what a finished Vanguard with enough ressources what have done for the oldschool crowd? Right giving them a new home and Sigil a huge amount of $. People are so easily forgetting games such as Blizzards one are the exception not the norm and never ever will be, like playing in the N H L is the exception not the norm. Keep in mind almost 70 % of the community left after Sigil partnershipped with Soe again!
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
The sandbox crowd cracks me up.
EQ was in no way/shape/form what is accepted to be a sandbox around these parts.
There was no mix/match with skills. Every class was firmly set, and only the most dedicated filled out all the Alternate Advancement.
No crafter based economy with dropped loot taking a back seat
No user generated content either via housing nor user created quests.
Pvp was about 4 whole servers...roughly 7 to 10% of the servers(EQ has between 40 and 50 servers in its prime).
There was a nice huge open world, with lots of various factions.....which was pretty much as sandboxy as EQ was. Folks bitch here constantly about "No one is making sandboxes". Do they think WoW was the first to show themepark sells? From the time EQ launched, until the time WoW overtook it, EQ had the most subs in NA....and it wasnt even close.
EQ WAS about open world, time sinks, and brutal lessons learned. Loot was the theme of the game, the proverbial "carrot on a stick", and folks worked together to help their friends/guildies to acheieve it. For the raiders, there was pretty much a progession of content to do when each expansion launched.
So when there is a thread talking about EQnext, and these sandbox folks start talking about making EQnext for them I gotta just shake my head.
EQ could work in todays market. Like WoW, those crazy timesinks need to be removed. Unless you have sat in your chair for over 24 hrs straight, trying to get a mob, you have no clue just how demanding EQ was. Or losing your body on a Hate breakin, and waiting all night in hopes that your body didnt rot. This despite the fact you gotta be to work in an hr.
EQ was lessening the commitment when I quit in 06(played from Feb 01 till mid 06). I would bet it is still one of the more demanding games out there....and that style just doesnt sell these days.
Tune the classes kind of like EQ2 in that several classes can function in the trinity roles, rather than requiring grps to have cleric/warrior to go along with either a chanter or shammy(or even bard/BST) for slowing/hasting, and someone to snare/pull. The Holy trinity used to be a drag for the other classes.
I saw someone mention lowering the time between spawns....highly agree with. 3 days should be a max spawn, with the norm being 8 hrs or less IMO. You dont wanna hand things to folks, but you dont want them to be stupid about it either. There was a once per game yr mob that spawned in North Ro I helped kill my first month of EQ in 01......totally mega rare items like that would make for a nice badge(say kill 5 mega rare for the "Patient Hunter" badge etc). You do that for the totally dedicated....not those just wishing to advance their character.
I also agree with lowering time required to beat each mob....to go along with less down time. I wouldnt pace it like WoW/CoH though, as that downtime gets folks to communicating in grps.
Someone else also mentioned keeping dungeons/raids as instanced....the rest as persistent world. Places like Guk work better as a persistent area with various camps IMO, so I would keep stuff as EQ was when I left in 06....you go thru the various zones to get to the area you want to raid/do certain instanced grp tasks.
Instant travel is fine...AFTER the person has made the various Karana runs. When Velious first launched, you would have to get a "key" from the druid circle to be able to be gated into the new content. That means you had to take the long route to get there the first time. It gives scale to a grand world to run it the first time IMO. I would break the instant travel points up though, and not have everything in a zone like PoK. PoK pretty much took away reliance on too many zones. Give folks short cuts(after the first run), but keep them visiting a few areas to keep the work "alive".
Oh Hell no on quest markers. Names on top of a persons head is enough IMO. I would want the click thru seen in modern MMOs though once I do interact with NPCs....the days of "What soulfire"....."where is soulfire"...."can I get a soulfire to go" guessing game, for starting quests, doesnt need to return.
No-drop, Bind on pick up, lore, Bind on equip items all served a purpose. It was nice to have older gear you could twink out an alt with.....problem being it created the market for gold sellers. Thus I would only allow items actually looted from one account to be passed to characters on the same account, and then it would still be balanced by level restrictions.....be that out-right not being able to use an item, or a recommended level that reduces the stats when used by a lower level.
Trivial loot code? For those unfamiliar, this was Brads way of making sure higher levels wouldnt farm the lower level content. No good items would drop if the encounter didnt get you exp. I wouldnt go with a TLC. What I would do is spawn an instance for those too high for that area to exp in. All the high levels get relegated to the same instance, with those in the correct lvl range for zone in the persistent area.
And lastly for those hammering about trades.....take a walk over to EQtraders.com (if it is still around). There were tons of trades in EQ. That said, it was pretty much secondary to loot. Which is the system a game should use for an adventure game. EQ wasnt about playing house, or ganking nOObs.....like I stated prior, it was a game where you adventured together with others, collecting things/loot among the way, all in the effort to do even more challenging content.
God I have typed a bunch, and there is still tons of things I would do if EQ-Next was my project. I spent mega hrs in game, and on various sites during my 5+ yrs playing. Until something better comes along according to my tastes, EQ will remain my favorite MMO of all time.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Collector's editions are scams.
Actully /loc has been in since BETA...
but maps is correct though maps was added later.
ingame maps are not a bad thing, they are a must have, actually. they should show the landscape in detail with all towns and other places of importance (perhaps not the very hidden ones).
but, there is no need for autodirection. a map should not show NPCs or mobs. the same counts for the minimap of course.
EQ1 had no maps at the beginning. that was wrong. the later maps then had not much details, that was wrong again. a good map should contain all places with their names (forest of xyz, temple of abc, ...). this way the description of NPCs, where to go, could be precise enough, so that we dont need the destination point marked on the map.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
There is a lot of interest in this game. I am certainly interested. It would be cool if it had its own game forum. *Hint hint*
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Agreed, but they cold incorporate mystery by having you earn various maps with varying detail.
Also for pvp, while your looking at your map, others would see you holding it. This act would signify your inattentiveness and thus make you vulnerable to be attacked.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I'll agree that taking EQ1 and updating it is a good idea, and adding in a better quest system and crafting system is nice. But leave the vanguard stuff out. Seriously the crafting system in vanguard was the worst I've ever seen in a game ever. Trust me, you make mistakes when you make something the first time in real life, after that you don't make that mistake again if you have a brain. Vanguard had you make the same mistake over and over and over, minigames are not a part of crafting. This isn't puzzel pirates.
Also losing your corpse wasn't always your fault, sometimes it fell through the freaking zone. Pre neco summoning this was a bad thing, especially if your server had no GM.
I'm always amazed at how many people here have forgotten why MMOs have moved past EQ1's gameplay.
Instancing was introduced because dungons were overcamped. No other MMO has had that problem since because "open" dungeon design drives away players in droves.
The last time more than a few thousand people tolerated that kind of thing was about oh, 7 years ago. Kids can go to the mall if they want to socialize while they wait in line.
You'll have an easier time finding a 28.8 modem than getting another MMO that recreates EQ1.
All I ask of EQNext is that they try to get away from the static quest grind. Quests should build toward something more than a bar of exp and a piece of loot. If I'm going to fetch sticks and stones for a NPC all day I want a damn castle there when I get back.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
I'm of the complete opposite opinion. It completely breaks my immersion to come across a dungeon that has a block party going on inside it. A dungeon is supposed to be a dangerous foreboding place, not a dance club. Instancing helps give the impression of solidarity for your group within a dungeon. The opposite makes it feel as though there is no danger at all.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well I don't like WOW, besides nothing I said takes away from a shared experience. I just prefer to be the only group in a dungeon, rather than one of a hundred groups running through that dungeon. As much as I loved DAOC and SWG, my biggest complaint was showing up to a hidden cave or tomb that was not so hidden.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Here is what would make it an ideal from my perspective
1. All the original races from EQ1, racial starting areas, etc.
2. The God system from EQ2. I liked that you could devote yourself to a particular deity for a given benefit. Way cool.
3. The ability to pick various crafting professions. No tiered professions.
4. EQ1 class system. I like having my character called a cleric or druid
5. A WoW like talent system. Do away with the needless grind of AAs or have them given as quest rewards. I see no need or fun in divorcing Character Development from leveling. When I level, I want to advance my character then and there, not spend 5 years getting all my AAs. That is not fun.
6. Use the housing system as seen in EQ2. Perfect housing.
7. A diversity of mounts, racial and local.
8. No F2P option for God's Sake. Can we please leave the VIP club alone? I don't want teens who pop their collars to be in my Club Norrath.
9. A seemless open game with homesteading and diplomacy as seen in Vanguard.
That's my wishlist. Some may disagree, but whatever, that happens.