I have found it is time to say good bye to MMORPG's after 12+ years started at around 13 and now 25 in march.
I will admit I am a little burned out but no where close to quiting point what has put the flame out is just the way MMORPG's have gone. The game's I used to play where group focused and a challenge with little to no hand olding beside's from a helpful community where jerk where rare. Wow lol what a 180 from today
Slowly the the game became easyer and easyer to the point of the handholding solo casual is king game's of today and off with the head of the old guard. The lack of inovation as well compair to the older day's where dev would think out side of the box not inside.
I will just stop there and not turn this in to some rant and simply say I will be putting my keyboard down for MMORPG's of today. I think ill will go back to strategy game like age of empires and red alert. So I gusse it's time to put a end like iv been trying for the last 4 years for good.
The beast has been sick for far far to long and it can't be healed as much as the old guard wish's it so.
To other old timer's that are in the same boat still it's time to have them learn on there own as much as it pain's us watch of game's burn die and crumble and blow away and ash in the wind we must take heart in what it was to turly live and play in the golden age.
Troll or someone that's lost that lovin' feeling? I have a hunch this is a troll.
I can understand you, OP. MMOs have changed and are not aimed for the same people as they once were.
But in other ways like mechanics are they exactly the same as they always been.
The disappointing part is that they are so close to eachother and so few try something different. There are however a few games trying to be different in sight, like WoDO and GW2. And I am talking about games with an acceptable budget here, there are a few small indie games already that differs but their are low budget and you can feel that while playing them.
I still enjoy myself at times so I will be staying around but I can see while you might not find it worth and I have really hard to understand the people bashing you for quitting. It is your life and only a fool would stay playing games he doesn't like.
And difficulty is an important factor of MMOs. If a game is too hard or too easy it gets boring for the player. And games have gone to cateer a single group of players there since they are the largest but I think that is a mistake, I think some games actually would get more players if they upped the difficulty since no game really aims for people who want it harder now (PvE games, PvP games is always as hard as the opponent) .
Hopefully will you be back in the future because change is coming again even if it is slow right now. So goodbye for now.
Troll or someone that's lost that lovin' feeling? I have a hunch this is a troll.
The guy has been playing these games for 12 years and quit, so you say he is a troll? That is just rude.
The games have changed for 12 years and not everyone likes that. And when someone quit the genre because of that you just can't dismiss them as a troll. A troll would state he will quit many times instead.
My feeling only, but very few people who quit a genre like this one after 12 years are gone for good.
Every time a new "generation" of games comes out, they will be back, hoping to re-find the experience that made them love the genre as much as they did initially.
I still look back fondly on EQ1 somewhat, and moreso on DAOC as my first really guild-oriented social game. While I've enjoyed dozens since for various reasons, nostalgia always brings me back to those early games.
That said, I'm excited by some of the changes coming over the next few months in various games, and hope for innovation in MMO gaming models in the future.
Troll or someone that's lost that lovin' feeling? I have a hunch this is a troll.
The guy has been playing these games for 12 years and quit, so you say he is a troll? That is just rude.
The games have changed for 12 years and not everyone likes that. And when someone quit the genre because of that you just can't dismiss them as a troll. A troll would state he will quit many times instead.
Its not that people say so fast i been playing 12 years , but he is only 25 ? how can he be playing mmorpgs at age of 13 ?
And really get involved with the community of the old ?
People excaggerate so quickly so often , NOW BEFORE EVERYBODY JUMP ONTO THE BASH WAGON !!!
He makes a point the OP that point is running rampant , among a steady group of MMORPGS players.
So ignore the detail of 12 year experience , the point is still valid , but it has to do with generation shift .
Most are burnout , especially WoW cataclysme just probaly sealed the deal for most players .
That they need a change , the game is getting stupidly stale and the hamster wheel is getting boring .
Chasing the carrot only works so long , no matter the company or envoirement .
Troll or someone that's lost that lovin' feeling? I have a hunch this is a troll.
The guy has been playing these games for 12 years and quit, so you say he is a troll? That is just rude.
The games have changed for 12 years and not everyone likes that. And when someone quit the genre because of that you just can't dismiss them as a troll. A troll would state he will quit many times instead.
Its not that people say so fast i been playing 12 years , but he is only 25 ? how can he be playing mmorpgs at age of 13 ?
And really get involved with the community of the old ?
People excaggerate so quickly so often , NOW BEFORE EVERYBODY JUMP ONTO THE BASH WAGON !!!
He makes a point the OP that point is running rampant , among a steady group of MMORPGS players.
So ignore the detail of 12 year experience , the point is still valid , but it has to do with generation shift .
Most are burnout , especially WoW cataclysme just probaly sealed the deal for most players .
That they need a change , the game is getting stupidly stale and the hamster wheel is getting boring .
Chasing the carrot only works so long , no matter the company or envoirement .
My son was 8 years old whenI got him started playing Lineage 1. While he was a bit young to get involved with the community, by 10 we were playing DAOC and he defintielly got to experience the great community that game had, when we joined a guild called Shadowclan that roleplayed so deeply that they had their own language he was much better at mastering it than I was. He moved on to WOW when he was 12 and has played the game since launch, and now at 18 even he agrees, the communities aren't the same.
But there's a difference between him and I, he doesn't care that the communities are gone. WhIle I joined the MMO world late (I was in my 40's), and so relied on making friends in game, he plays WOW with a preselected group of friends from real life so he's got his own social network.
For 2011 I had to make a decision really, to keep focusing on what MMORPG's don't have, (like the OP is doing) and probably quit playing, or set that aside, enjoy the games for what they do have, and then move on to a new one.
So to that end, I returned to WOW after a 4 year self-imposed exile. I know where the road leads, eventually I'll hit end game, and be left with a choice of raiding endlessly for better gear (no, did that, won't do it again), doing some PVP (didn't do much of that before, so probably will be my real focus) and then, moving on in about 6 months when one of the new MMO's releases.
In just a few short weeks I've found I'm happier already, because I have hope that a future game will bring me more fun, even if it won't be my ultimate gaming experience or return MMORPG's to the days of yore.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@ Kyleran , its that when you are 10 you have a different opnion what community is .
When you are 10 you are usually the one to scream in trade (usually not always) can i have some gold.
Or help me and stay with me to do my quests .
Back then tons more helpfull people around , and the odd kid or underage was cheerished and adored .
Now with the flood of these types , it doesn´t become adoring it becomes annoying .
Even more annoying when people of 25 year of age , keep the childishe attitude or behaviours .
Thats the point , its not often we had childeren playing back then in MMORPGS , or even text based MUDS .
Mostly the game comprimise of chatting 12 years ago , and usual grind ... i am doing it from my memory .
So offcourse you get a stronger community , cause there wasn´t much else to do .
Its not i am bashing people way of fun , its just i step out of the hamster wheel .
I still maintain a guild and still organise raids heroics and dungeons , but the fun has gone out long time ago .
And if i do log into wow crack , i just maintain fascade of happyness just to not upset the addicted people .
So its not that i dont see what people want , its that they are not willing to put effort into it .
So in the end you have tons of disgrunted people , with no solution being offered .
The next game wont offer a solution for them either , the next MMO wont , its people realise you just surround yourself with a small group of similair mind realistic or irrealistic people , that mmo are fun .
Look at LOTRO and DDO , the only thing those small fanbase wanted was more people , and F2P solved that for them .
It doesn´t take much to keep excisting communties , just people are hoping for a GRAND change of MMO .
That sadly wont happen , generation changed and you just adapt .
If L2 was to lower its sub rate I would go back to it in a hearbeat, because frankly that game felt like an MMORPG. Music, scenery, weapons, armor, lore (yes believe it or not but L2 has a deep lore). I understand the original posters view point, and I am inclined to agree. I too don't like the hand holding, which is why I have recently rekindled my interest in CoX where there is no hand holding, and the AE allows me to create my own content, for my own generated characters. I can level ignoring missons, or arcs with ease. I can focus on the new endgame that is being developed by Paragon, or focus on playing alts for different combos, or being SK to play with friends at lower, or higher, levels.
In my opinion the current lack of freedom in many other MMORPG's is disturbing, especially those moving towards the FPS action play style. Lets face it, the Path of the Titans removal was a huge letdown for that to not be part of WoW Cata, as it would offered more options of variety and freedom. DCU, which will be released in January, is a fun fast paced game, and it does offer some freedom, but not enough for the year 2011. Had DCU come out in the year 2004, I am sure it would have been a smashing hit. Still, since DCU does offer some freedom unlike many recent MMO's launched, I think it will linger around despite not having much content at launch. CoX didn't have much content at launch, and the level cap was at 40, but it has stuck around for such a long time.
Edit: The current gamer generation hasn't changed their desires for fun gaming, as all gamer generations ultimately seek the same satisfaction, which is why I am glad to see many young gamers embracing F2P games, and holding P2P games accountable. Once the young gamer generation does this, and excercises their right as a consumer, only then we shall see a return to the glory days of MMORPGs for quality titles, and improved freedom once more. If it means voting with a wallet, so be it.
Troll or someone that's lost that lovin' feeling? I have a hunch this is a troll.
The guy has been playing these games for 12 years and quit, so you say he is a troll? That is just rude.
The games have changed for 12 years and not everyone likes that. And when someone quit the genre because of that you just can't dismiss them as a troll. A troll would state he will quit many times instead.
My apologies to the OP. I meant no disrespect at all. It was an honest suspicion due to several factors: The content of the post similar to countless other rant posts, the supposed age of the poster who yet claims to be an "old timer", the several grammatical and spelling miscues which may or may not be intentional (I'm not teh grammer poleesh, just an observation that's all).
In any case, then the other is true: He's lost that lovin' feeling with MMO's and instead of just going away quietly, he's fighting to see the genre come back with great games once again. I join him in that fight. The difference is that I've still found plenty of fun and friends in a handful of games that are out today.
You should take a break then you might see things from a different perspective and you would miss things and give you a chance to enjoy the genre again. Yes it has changed but sometimes after awhile the changes are liveable . You accept them. I know that sounds so lame to compromise you standards and also give in sort of but what to do it is not like you can control how the genre is going.
You know I would go back and try WoW again accept for one thing the raiding part. It wasn't so much the monotony of the same dungeons that got to me it was getting money gold rather to buy the consumables or to buy the recipe I needed to make the potions. I just did not have the energy to farm for money and then buy the potions then do the raids. This was the part I really hated about WoW.
That and the fact that I was so lazy about money that my highest toon had only a basic mount at 64. I know I am just horrible about money I have been in every game I have played. I am not a bad player and I manage in most games to become a valuable part of the guilds I belonged to but when I get outpaced on money issues in game I generally cannot keep up. Games like City of X were great because it involved more skill than gear. So I could shine without having to get gold to buy things. I could be good without having to buy things. That is my main problem with games these days. You probably think I sound like a lazy person but I think the mechanic that makes you have to grind for money constantly to pay for things is flawed.
You know when I reached 50 in Everquest I raided did Temple of Veeshan the Planes did all of it until I think I quit after the expansion after Scars of Velious I do not recall the name now. I never had to keep up on the gear so much.Yes I had to spend on jewellery but after I got one set for each type of damage and some of the raid gear which through my attendance and DKP I got I did not have to constantly do maintenance and I got to enjoy the game .Play an alt and come raid when I wanted by putting on the appropriate jewellery for the encounter. With WoW it was always a huge job to keep up on the expenses. If they took away this aspect of the game I'd go back in a heartbeat.
Troll or someone that's lost that lovin' feeling? I have a hunch this is a troll.
The guy has been playing these games for 12 years and quit, so you say he is a troll? That is just rude.
The games have changed for 12 years and not everyone likes that. And when someone quit the genre because of that you just can't dismiss them as a troll. A troll would state he will quit many times instead.
Its not that people say so fast i been playing 12 years , but he is only 25 ? how can he be playing mmorpgs at age of 13 ?
And really get involved with the community of the old ?
People excaggerate so quickly so often , NOW BEFORE EVERYBODY JUMP ONTO THE BASH WAGON !!!
He makes a point the OP that point is running rampant , among a steady group of MMORPGS players.
So ignore the detail of 12 year experience , the point is still valid , but it has to do with generation shift .
Most are burnout , especially WoW cataclysme just probaly sealed the deal for most players .
That they need a change , the game is getting stupidly stale and the hamster wheel is getting boring .
Chasing the carrot only works so long , no matter the company or envoirement .
My son was 8 years old whenI got him started playing Lineage 1. While he was a bit young to get involved with the community, by 10 we were playing DAOC and he defintielly got to experience the great community that game had, when we joined a guild called Shadowclan that roleplayed so deeply that they had their own language he was much better at mastering it than I was. He moved on to WOW when he was 12 and has played the game since launch, and now at 18 even he agrees, the communities aren't the same.
But there's a difference between him and I, he doesn't care that the communities are gone. WhIle I joined the MMO world late (I was in my 40's), and so relied on making friends in game, he plays WOW with a preselected group of friends from real life so he's got his own social network.
For 2011 I had to make a decision really, to keep focusing on what MMORPG's don't have, (like the OP is doing) and probably quit playing, or set that aside, enjoy the games for what they do have, and then move on to a new one.
So to that end, I returned to WOW after a 4 year self-imposed exile. I know where the road leads, eventually I'll hit end game, and be left with a choice of raiding endlessly for better gear (no, did that, won't do it again), doing some PVP (didn't do much of that before, so probably will be my real focus) and then, moving on in about 6 months when one of the new MMO's releases.
In just a few short weeks I've found I'm happier already, because I have hope that a future game will bring me more fun, even if it won't be my ultimate gaming experience or return MMORPG's to the days of yore.
You make an excellent point, here. I am 33, and have been playing mmorpgs since Asheron's Call original release date, and I played MUDs for a few years before. There has been a considerable community shift over the years, and I feel that's why so many are feeling stagnation.
AC had a fun community, especially on Thistledown server, which seemingly had the big personalities. The whole genre was so new, and the communities were more naturally friendly and cooperative.
I then played DAoC off an on for about two years. Again, excellent community, especially since the three sided faction war really encouraged cooperation.
I want to say that the first 5 years of my playing mmorpgs, I had many great community interactions among all of the various games I tried. However, with each passing game an inherent competitive spirit was also weasling its way in.
DAoC would be a good early example for me. The push to 50 was basically countless hours spent grinding very specific spots, and other groups would come in and try to hunt as well. However, each spawn could only support one group at a time, so there was much bickering over "spawn" ownership.
Similar events took place in all of the mmorpgs I played, with various quest mobs being camped, dungeons being overrun, etc. So now we have E-sports moving into mmorpgs (arena and rated BGs in WoW now), and super guilds competing for world first boss kills in raiding and what not. There is a tremendous amount of competition within the genre now, much of it artifical and not really related to PvP directly.
The carrot-on-a-stick, grinding nature of many mmorpgs fostered xenophobic guild interactions and a general lack of community spirit. This, I feel, is why I think so many of us feel there is a lack of community within games, let alone gaming forums.
This is also why I think GW2 is going to be a culture shock for many gamers. Aside from the pvp aspect of GW2, the entire PvE aspect is oozing with a cooperative spirit. Want a more epic dynamic quest event? Get more people there. You don't have to be grouped with people in order to work together and get rewarded equally for your effort. The fall of the reliance on the "holy trinity", which may also foster more inventive ways of tackling content.
2011 might be an interesting year for mmorpgs, especially if GW2 does well.
Just as a point of reference, I'm twice as old as the OP (well, close....48 in May) and while I understand burn out on the genre, I can also say that I am super stoked to see what is COMING to the genre.
I just wanted to make it perfectly CLEAR that not everyone that is "old guard" or "old school," is giving up on the genre OR wishing it was like back in the "olden days." I want it to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD. Stagnation is boring and stagnant people are boring and get bored easily. That's just how it is.
Just as a point of reference, I'm twice as old as the OP (well, close....48 in May) and while I understand burn out on the genre, I can also say that I am super stoked to see what is COMING to the genre.
I just wanted to make it perfectly CLEAR that not everyone that is "old guard" or "old school," is giving up on the genre OR wishing it was like back in the "olden days." I want it to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD. Stagnation is boring and stagnant people are boring and get bored easily. That's just how it is.
So, "New Generation"......I say "BRING IT ON!"
Yep, I plus-one this post, applies to me too.
Old guard or old school as well (well, I played EQ, a bit of UO and DAoC - a few hours of Meridian59 before it scared me back to EQ), but I also am looking forward to the upcoming games. Nostalgia is all fine, but there's a reason that memories are often glorify the past and make it feel more glamorous than things often really were. Those memories should stay in the past, there's enough progression and diversity in MMO games to look forward to the next few years when one keeps his/her expectations realistic and grounded
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Just as a point of reference, I'm twice as old as the OP (well, close....48 in May) and while I understand burn out on the genre, I can also say that I am super stoked to see what is COMING to the genre.
I just wanted to make it perfectly CLEAR that not everyone that is "old guard" or "old school," is giving up on the genre OR wishing it was like back in the "olden days." I want it to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD. Stagnation is boring and stagnant people are boring and get bored easily. That's just how it is.
So, "New Generation"......I say "BRING IT ON!"
You remind me of what Goerge Carlin (RIP) said and the analogy fits you here very well.
"Did you know that? That's all we have. That's all we have here folks. Mile after mile of mall after mall; many, many malls. Major malls and mini-malls. They put the mini-malls. They pu the mini-malls in between the major malls. And in between the mini-malls they put the mini-marts. And in between the mini-malls they put the mini-marts. And in the between the mini-marts they pu the car lots, gas stations, muffler shops, laundry mats, cheap hotels, fast-food joints, strip clubs, and dirty bookstores.
America the Beautiful. One big transcontinental commercial cesspool. And how do the people feel about all of this? How do the people feel about living in a bicoastal shopping mall?
Well, they think it's JUST FUCKING DANDY!"
Like you said just because you are older doesn't mean you have the perception or standards that we have. Age means nothing, I know younger people who cannot accept shallow game play. I know older people who play a shallow game and they think it's "JUST FUCKING DANDY!".
I am all for "Next Generation" but if you've seen all the developed who claimed their games is "Next Generation" you'd be surprised. The recent one which is under Closed Beta (is advertised as such) and it's nothing but a compelte clone of World of Warcraft. You like that, dont you? Quest Driven, hand holding, Shallow game play, same artificial itemization system, GPS maps pointing you towards where they want you to go, complete linearity. Good for you, I'm glad you're having fun because there are too many of those games that you enjoy so much.
But for us, in the other hand, we demand depth. We dont want the old games to come back again. But we want a better direction to MMORPG genre. A different genre actually. This problem is not new, it is not a problem to MMORPGs only. Even in RPGs we had the "Action" RPG (Diablo) and the "Classic" RPG (Baldur's Gate). So, some people like fast paces with no RPG element whatsoever (Except for.... leveling.. and since when that's considered RPG??). Others just like the other kind of "RPGs" you know those who get the option to actually god damn role play a little?
Also, don't delude yourself with this "Stagnation". The real stagnation is the standardized Quest-Driven crap developers are throwing at us. Different theme, same shit again and again.I am with developement and progress. That is EXACTLY why I hate the MMORPG direction. If you think copying the same Quest Driven system over and over again is progress, then guess who's with "stagnation"?
Stop deluding yourself. The MMORPG genre is on a hold. There's no progress whatsoever.
I am not quitting though. Because my hopes are high with Studio 38 and CCP new MMORPG "World of Darkness". They will break the stupid mold that you enjoy so much. According to R. A. Salvatore who is working in Studio 38 he said something like "The last thing you want to do is holding people's hand". Also, CCP known for being creative with their titles (EVE Online). In the mean while enjoy the hundreds of "next generation" titles.
I am not quitting though. Because my hopes are high with Studio 38 and CCP new MMORPG "World of Darkness". They will break the stupid mold that you enjoy so much. According to R. A. Salvatore who is working in Studio 38 he said something like "The last thing you want to do is holding people's hand". Also, CCP known for being creative with their titles (EVE Online). In the mean while enjoy the hundreds of "next generation" titles.
In the meantime, enjoy waiting and waiting and putting all your hopes on one or two titles, while others are having great fun actually playing MMO games in the meantime, great fun they'll continue having when they're gonna play WoD as well
The difference is, those other people will have had great fun and memories actually playing while the others have done nothing but waiting and hoping.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I am not quitting though. Because my hopes are high with Studio 38 and CCP new MMORPG "World of Darkness". They will break the stupid mold that you enjoy so much. According to R. A. Salvatore who is working in Studio 38 he said something like "The last thing you want to do is holding people's hand". Also, CCP known for being creative with their titles (EVE Online). In the mean while enjoy the hundreds of "next generation" titles.
In the meantime, enjoy waiting and waiting and putting all your hopes on one or two titles, while others are having great fun actually playing MMO games in the meantime, great fun they'll continue having when they're gonna play WoD as well
The difference is, those other people will have had great fun and memories actually playing while the others have done nothing but waiting and hoping.
You're wrong. I am having fun playing these games too. But I don't consider them the same genre as others. Just like I had fun playing Diablo 2 but it was a completely different genre from say Baldur's Gate, Torment and Fallout. They are all advertised as "RPGs" but are they really equal? D2 is action oriented while the others are, well, role playing oriented.
I am playing EQ Project 1999 and having a blast. But I am also looking for a new game with depth. I was playing Aion and enjoying it too. Don't be decieved. Just because I demand a form of game play because the market lacks it. Doesn't mean I shun everything else. It just frustrates me that there are too many apples but not oranges at all (except very old ones).
My review of Rift: Planes of Telara was "good" because I look at it as a "different" game. I love StarCraft 2, doesn't fulfill my need of an MMORPG with depth though. The difference between those who encourage shallow game play and those who cricizie it is that we (critiques) demand variety while they (those who think it's fucking dandy) are satisfied with what we already have and would be satisfied even if they were given a plate of crap (in the non literal sense).
MMO's have never been hard, and have never been skill based games, even in the 'golden age'. MMO's have always been so easy that anyone with half a brain and enough time on their hands could master them with ease. The only difference now is there are far less frustrating nuances you need to 'master' before you reach the skill cap for the game and as such it's much more difficult to pretend like you are a superior player from the rest of the rabble that plays MMO's.
Bull ****. There is a clear difference between yawn inducing quests you can clear on autoattack and group content that tests the strengths and "SKILLS" of the player behind that character and if he or she can press exactly the right buttons to put in the correct teamwork/damage/healing/tanking/CC/etc needed to clear that instance or boss.
Just as a point of reference, I'm twice as old as the OP (well, close....48 in May) and while I understand burn out on the genre, I can also say that I am super stoked to see what is COMING to the genre.
I just wanted to make it perfectly CLEAR that not everyone that is "old guard" or "old school," is giving up on the genre OR wishing it was like back in the "olden days." I want it to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD. Stagnation is boring and stagnant people are boring and get bored easily. That's just how it is.
So, "New Generation"......I say "BRING IT ON!"
You remind me of what Goerge Carlin (RIP) said and the analogy fits you here very well.
"Did you know that? That's all we have. That's all we have here folks. Mile after mile of mall after mall; many, many malls. Major malls and mini-malls. They put the mini-malls. They pu the mini-malls in between the major malls. And in between the mini-malls they put the mini-marts. And in between the mini-malls they put the mini-marts. And in the between the mini-marts they pu the car lots, gas stations, muffler shops, laundry mats, cheap hotels, fast-food joints, strip clubs, and dirty bookstores.
America the Beautiful. One big transcontinental commercial cesspool. And how do the people feel about all of this? How do the people feel about living in a bicoastal shopping mall?
Well, they think it's JUST FUCKING DANDY!"
Like you said just because you are older doesn't mean you have the perception or standards that we have. Age means nothing, I know younger people who cannot accept shallow game play. I know older people who play a shallow game and they think it's "JUST FUCKING DANDY!".
I am all for "Next Generation" but if you've seen all the developed who claimed their games is "Next Generation" you'd be surprised. The recent one which is under Closed Beta (is advertised as such) and it's nothing but a compelte clone of World of Warcraft. You like that, dont you? Quest Driven, hand holding, Shallow game play, same artificial itemization system, GPS maps pointing you towards where they want you to go, complete linearity. Good for you, I'm glad you're having fun because there are too many of those games that you enjoy so much.
But for us, in the other hand, we demand depth. We dont want the old games to come back again. But we want a better direction to MMORPG genre. A different genre actually. This problem is not new, it is not a problem to MMORPGs only. Even in RPGs we had the "Action" RPG (Diablo) and the "Classic" RPG (Baldur's Gate). So, some people like fast paces with no RPG element whatsoever (Except for.... leveling.. and since when that's considered RPG??). Others just like the other kind of "RPGs" you know those who get the option to actually god damn role play a little?
Also, don't delude yourself with this "Stagnation". The real stagnation is the standardized Quest-Driven crap developers are throwing at us. Different theme, same shit again and again.I am with developement and progress. That is EXACTLY why I hate the MMORPG direction. If you think copying the same Quest Driven system over and over again is progress, then guess who's with "stagnation"?
Stop deluding yourself. The MMORPG genre is on a hold. There's no progress whatsoever.
I am not quitting though. Because my hopes are high with Studio 38 and CCP new MMORPG "World of Darkness". They will break the stupid mold that you enjoy so much. According to R. A. Salvatore who is working in Studio 38 he said something like "The last thing you want to do is holding people's hand". Also, CCP known for being creative with their titles (EVE Online). In the mean while enjoy the hundreds of "next generation" titles.
I think it is hilarious that while you posted words upon words on raging against the 'quest driven crap', the games you quoted 'Diablo and BG' have the same questing system. Except that MMO can be played with other people what do you have against questing anyway?
Last I checked, most RPGs have some type of 'go here and do XYZ for 123 (item and/or EXP)'. Dragon Age, PS:T, BG, Mass Effect, NWN and yes even WoW.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
MMO's have never been hard, and have never been skill based games, even in the 'golden age'. MMO's have always been so easy that anyone with half a brain and enough time on their hands could master them with ease. The only difference now is there are far less frustrating nuances you need to 'master' before you reach the skill cap for the game and as such it's much more difficult to pretend like you are a superior player from the rest of the rabble that plays MMO's.
Bull ****. There is a clear difference between yawn inducing quests you can clear on autoattack and group content that tests the strengths and "SKILLS" of the player behind that character and if he or she can press exactly the right buttons to put in the correct teamwork/damage/healing/tanking/CC/etc needed to clear that instance or boss.
rofl, you think playing pve in an mmo takes skill.
Your "skill" taking content, doesnt take any skill, it takes so little skill that alot of 5-6 man stuff can be done with a group of 3 actually decent people and not pugs.
You know what takes REAL skill? being able to clear group content solo, clearling group content with a group takes about as much skill as clearly solo content solo.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Just as a point of reference, I'm twice as old as the OP (well, close....48 in May) and while I understand burn out on the genre, I can also say that I am super stoked to see what is COMING to the genre.
I just wanted to make it perfectly CLEAR that not everyone that is "old guard" or "old school," is giving up on the genre OR wishing it was like back in the "olden days." I want it to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD. Stagnation is boring and stagnant people are boring and get bored easily. That's just how it is.
So, "New Generation"......I say "BRING IT ON!"
You remind me of what Goerge Carlin (RIP) said and the analogy fits you here very well.
"Did you know that? That's all we have. That's all we have here folks. Mile after mile of mall after mall; many, many malls. Major malls and mini-malls. They put the mini-malls. They pu the mini-malls in between the major malls. And in between the mini-malls they put the mini-marts. And in between the mini-malls they put the mini-marts. And in the between the mini-marts they pu the car lots, gas stations, muffler shops, laundry mats, cheap hotels, fast-food joints, strip clubs, and dirty bookstores.
America the Beautiful. One big transcontinental commercial cesspool. And how do the people feel about all of this? How do the people feel about living in a bicoastal shopping mall?
Well, they think it's JUST FUCKING DANDY!"
Like you said just because you are older doesn't mean you have the perception or standards that we have. Age means nothing, I know younger people who cannot accept shallow game play. I know older people who play a shallow game and they think it's "JUST FUCKING DANDY!".
I am all for "Next Generation" but if you've seen all the developed who claimed their games is "Next Generation" you'd be surprised. The recent one which is under Closed Beta (is advertised as such) and it's nothing but a compelte clone of World of Warcraft. You like that, dont you? Quest Driven, hand holding, Shallow game play, same artificial itemization system, GPS maps pointing you towards where they want you to go, complete linearity. Good for you, I'm glad you're having fun because there are too many of those games that you enjoy so much.
But for us, in the other hand, we demand depth. We dont want the old games to come back again. But we want a better direction to MMORPG genre. A different genre actually. This problem is not new, it is not a problem to MMORPGs only. Even in RPGs we had the "Action" RPG (Diablo) and the "Classic" RPG (Baldur's Gate). So, some people like fast paces with no RPG element whatsoever (Except for.... leveling.. and since when that's considered RPG??). Others just like the other kind of "RPGs" you know those who get the option to actually god damn role play a little?
Also, don't delude yourself with this "Stagnation". The real stagnation is the standardized Quest-Driven crap developers are throwing at us. Different theme, same shit again and again.I am with developement and progress. That is EXACTLY why I hate the MMORPG direction. If you think copying the same Quest Driven system over and over again is progress, then guess who's with "stagnation"?
Stop deluding yourself. The MMORPG genre is on a hold. There's no progress whatsoever.
I am not quitting though. Because my hopes are high with Studio 38 and CCP new MMORPG "World of Darkness". They will break the stupid mold that you enjoy so much. According to R. A. Salvatore who is working in Studio 38 he said something like "The last thing you want to do is holding people's hand". Also, CCP known for being creative with their titles (EVE Online). In the mean while enjoy the hundreds of "next generation" titles.
I think it is hilarious that while you posted words upon words on raging against the 'quest driven crap', the games you quoted 'Diablo and BG' have the same questing system. Except that MMO can be played with other people what do you have against questing anyway?
Last I checked, most RPGs have some type of 'go here and do XYZ for 123 (item and/or EXP)'. Dragon Age, PS:T, BG, Mass Effect, NWN and yes even WoW.
This, EVERY RPG does this, even D&D, apparently people havnt figured out that even in virtual worlds theres tasks to do, its just seems to fly right over there head, but i guess it would make more sense for you to get up everyday, leave your house, kill random living things for 12 hours, then go to bed asnd repeat that every day.
Thats not how the world works and thats not how good rpg worlds work, good rpg worlds have you doing quests.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
MMO's have never been hard, and have never been skill based games, even in the 'golden age'. MMO's have always been so easy that anyone with half a brain and enough time on their hands could master them with ease. The only difference now is there are far less frustrating nuances you need to 'master' before you reach the skill cap for the game and as such it's much more difficult to pretend like you are a superior player from the rest of the rabble that plays MMO's.
Bull ****. There is a clear difference between yawn inducing quests you can clear on autoattack and group content that tests the strengths and "SKILLS" of the player behind that character and if he or she can press exactly the right buttons to put in the correct teamwork/damage/healing/tanking/CC/etc needed to clear that instance or boss.
rofl, you think playing pve in an mmo takes skill.
Your "skill" taking content, doesnt take any skill, it takes so little skill that alot of 5-6 man stuff can be done with a group of 3 actually decent people and not pugs.
I know the difference. There are instances in PvE that do really do require a full group knowing what they are doing. In LoTRO, Fornost instance clearing the 4 bosses. I can guarantee this is impossible to do with 3 people even if they are the most skilled MMO'ers ever, and I'm talking about being in its target level range (level 40-45 and then attempting it). Fornost is next on Turbine's list of instances to noobify (I can't say if its still in its original state, Turbine has been releasing patches to make everything easier every month) so if you want to experience that get on it quick. If you make a character now you can reach level 40 before the year is over and try to clear that with 3 people.
I think it is hilarious that while you posted words upon words on raging against the 'quest driven crap', the games you quoted 'Diablo and BG' have the same questing system. Except that MMO can be played with other people what do you have against questing anyway?
Last I checked, most RPGs have some type of 'go here and do XYZ for 123 (item and/or EXP)'. Dragon Age, PS:T, BG, Mass Effect, NWN and yes even WoW.
Diablo is a shallow "RPG" if it is a RPG at all. I never mentioned Diablo being the example games should follow. My comparison between Baldur's gate and diablo is to show the difference between WoW and Everquest. Does it make sense now? it is just like what we got on the mid 90s with Diablo being the fast-paced RPG and BG being slower with more RPG element. They are two completely different genres just like Quest Driven MMORPGs (WoW) is different from EverQuest. Make sense now?
There's also a HUGE difference between Quest Driven game and Quests. Quests are a tool to the game and should never be THE game. Let's not talk about RPGs we are here for MMORPGs. Big difference. Simply because RPGs you play them alone or with a small group of people while an MMORPG should be, well, an MMORPG.
One of the MANY things "Quest Driven System" do to MMORPGs is that the player is focused on the upper-right section where the summary of the quests is showing to do things. Everyone around you is doing the same. Focused and Busy to do these errands non stop 24/7 from level 1 till max. That's how it is designed and that's how people are doing it. The quests never stop and you usually end up with a 30/30 quest log. This detracts from communicating with others, discourage grouping and reduce exploration options to Zero.
If MMROPG to you means a Single Player Game with Too Many Errands then fine. But to me MMORPG should be about playing with/against masses fo players. You don't need to "group" with them but there are many means of connections that players can do if the tools are available. But what happens now with Quest Driven games is that everyone running around to simply cause lag and nothing else but that. The dungeons are instances, the Quests are repeated, no exploration, no ecomony, just a massive amount of people running around soloing. They are all doing the same quest, alone, turning it in the quest hub and running back again to the same area you're heading. Hand Held from the day they login until they reach the max level.
Group sessions for quest, even as rare as they are, end up as soon as the "quest" is finished.
In the other hand if developers would focus more on Content than on hand holding players through "quests". Then we'd end up with a better game play. Quests are not the problem, but when you get too many of them and when they point you to where they want you to be.. that's a shallow game play. If you kill a Dragon then you should be able to loot his head. Having to head back to town to find someone with a big exclamation mark just to be able to loot that dragno's head is stupid.
Comments
Troll or someone that's lost that lovin' feeling? I have a hunch this is a troll.
I can understand you, OP. MMOs have changed and are not aimed for the same people as they once were.
But in other ways like mechanics are they exactly the same as they always been.
The disappointing part is that they are so close to eachother and so few try something different. There are however a few games trying to be different in sight, like WoDO and GW2. And I am talking about games with an acceptable budget here, there are a few small indie games already that differs but their are low budget and you can feel that while playing them.
I still enjoy myself at times so I will be staying around but I can see while you might not find it worth and I have really hard to understand the people bashing you for quitting. It is your life and only a fool would stay playing games he doesn't like.
And difficulty is an important factor of MMOs. If a game is too hard or too easy it gets boring for the player. And games have gone to cateer a single group of players there since they are the largest but I think that is a mistake, I think some games actually would get more players if they upped the difficulty since no game really aims for people who want it harder now (PvE games, PvP games is always as hard as the opponent) .
Hopefully will you be back in the future because change is coming again even if it is slow right now. So goodbye for now.
The guy has been playing these games for 12 years and quit, so you say he is a troll? That is just rude.
The games have changed for 12 years and not everyone likes that. And when someone quit the genre because of that you just can't dismiss them as a troll. A troll would state he will quit many times instead.
My feeling only, but very few people who quit a genre like this one after 12 years are gone for good.
Every time a new "generation" of games comes out, they will be back, hoping to re-find the experience that made them love the genre as much as they did initially.
I still look back fondly on EQ1 somewhat, and moreso on DAOC as my first really guild-oriented social game. While I've enjoyed dozens since for various reasons, nostalgia always brings me back to those early games.
That said, I'm excited by some of the changes coming over the next few months in various games, and hope for innovation in MMO gaming models in the future.
Its not that people say so fast i been playing 12 years , but he is only 25 ? how can he be playing mmorpgs at age of 13 ?
And really get involved with the community of the old ?
People excaggerate so quickly so often , NOW BEFORE EVERYBODY JUMP ONTO THE BASH WAGON !!!
He makes a point the OP that point is running rampant , among a steady group of MMORPGS players.
So ignore the detail of 12 year experience , the point is still valid , but it has to do with generation shift .
Most are burnout , especially WoW cataclysme just probaly sealed the deal for most players .
That they need a change , the game is getting stupidly stale and the hamster wheel is getting boring .
Chasing the carrot only works so long , no matter the company or envoirement .
My son was 8 years old whenI got him started playing Lineage 1. While he was a bit young to get involved with the community, by 10 we were playing DAOC and he defintielly got to experience the great community that game had, when we joined a guild called Shadowclan that roleplayed so deeply that they had their own language he was much better at mastering it than I was. He moved on to WOW when he was 12 and has played the game since launch, and now at 18 even he agrees, the communities aren't the same.
But there's a difference between him and I, he doesn't care that the communities are gone. WhIle I joined the MMO world late (I was in my 40's), and so relied on making friends in game, he plays WOW with a preselected group of friends from real life so he's got his own social network.
For 2011 I had to make a decision really, to keep focusing on what MMORPG's don't have, (like the OP is doing) and probably quit playing, or set that aside, enjoy the games for what they do have, and then move on to a new one.
So to that end, I returned to WOW after a 4 year self-imposed exile. I know where the road leads, eventually I'll hit end game, and be left with a choice of raiding endlessly for better gear (no, did that, won't do it again), doing some PVP (didn't do much of that before, so probably will be my real focus) and then, moving on in about 6 months when one of the new MMO's releases.
In just a few short weeks I've found I'm happier already, because I have hope that a future game will bring me more fun, even if it won't be my ultimate gaming experience or return MMORPG's to the days of yore.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I will never get the complaint about any MMO on the market being too easy or not group friendly.
Name one MMO that doesn't have things you can do that are very difficult or require groups.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
@ Kyleran , its that when you are 10 you have a different opnion what community is .
When you are 10 you are usually the one to scream in trade (usually not always) can i have some gold.
Or help me and stay with me to do my quests .
Back then tons more helpfull people around , and the odd kid or underage was cheerished and adored .
Now with the flood of these types , it doesn´t become adoring it becomes annoying .
Even more annoying when people of 25 year of age , keep the childishe attitude or behaviours .
Thats the point , its not often we had childeren playing back then in MMORPGS , or even text based MUDS .
Mostly the game comprimise of chatting 12 years ago , and usual grind ... i am doing it from my memory .
So offcourse you get a stronger community , cause there wasn´t much else to do .
Its not i am bashing people way of fun , its just i step out of the hamster wheel .
I still maintain a guild and still organise raids heroics and dungeons , but the fun has gone out long time ago .
And if i do log into wow crack , i just maintain fascade of happyness just to not upset the addicted people .
So its not that i dont see what people want , its that they are not willing to put effort into it .
So in the end you have tons of disgrunted people , with no solution being offered .
The next game wont offer a solution for them either , the next MMO wont , its people realise you just surround yourself with a small group of similair mind realistic or irrealistic people , that mmo are fun .
Look at LOTRO and DDO , the only thing those small fanbase wanted was more people , and F2P solved that for them .
It doesn´t take much to keep excisting communties , just people are hoping for a GRAND change of MMO .
That sadly wont happen , generation changed and you just adapt .
If L2 was to lower its sub rate I would go back to it in a hearbeat, because frankly that game felt like an MMORPG. Music, scenery, weapons, armor, lore (yes believe it or not but L2 has a deep lore). I understand the original posters view point, and I am inclined to agree. I too don't like the hand holding, which is why I have recently rekindled my interest in CoX where there is no hand holding, and the AE allows me to create my own content, for my own generated characters. I can level ignoring missons, or arcs with ease. I can focus on the new endgame that is being developed by Paragon, or focus on playing alts for different combos, or being SK to play with friends at lower, or higher, levels.
In my opinion the current lack of freedom in many other MMORPG's is disturbing, especially those moving towards the FPS action play style. Lets face it, the Path of the Titans removal was a huge letdown for that to not be part of WoW Cata, as it would offered more options of variety and freedom. DCU, which will be released in January, is a fun fast paced game, and it does offer some freedom, but not enough for the year 2011. Had DCU come out in the year 2004, I am sure it would have been a smashing hit. Still, since DCU does offer some freedom unlike many recent MMO's launched, I think it will linger around despite not having much content at launch. CoX didn't have much content at launch, and the level cap was at 40, but it has stuck around for such a long time.
Edit: The current gamer generation hasn't changed their desires for fun gaming, as all gamer generations ultimately seek the same satisfaction, which is why I am glad to see many young gamers embracing F2P games, and holding P2P games accountable. Once the young gamer generation does this, and excercises their right as a consumer, only then we shall see a return to the glory days of MMORPGs for quality titles, and improved freedom once more. If it means voting with a wallet, so be it.
My apologies to the OP. I meant no disrespect at all. It was an honest suspicion due to several factors: The content of the post similar to countless other rant posts, the supposed age of the poster who yet claims to be an "old timer", the several grammatical and spelling miscues which may or may not be intentional (I'm not teh grammer poleesh, just an observation that's all).
In any case, then the other is true: He's lost that lovin' feeling with MMO's and instead of just going away quietly, he's fighting to see the genre come back with great games once again. I join him in that fight. The difference is that I've still found plenty of fun and friends in a handful of games that are out today.
You should take a break then you might see things from a different perspective and you would miss things and give you a chance to enjoy the genre again. Yes it has changed but sometimes after awhile the changes are liveable . You accept them. I know that sounds so lame to compromise you standards and also give in sort of but what to do it is not like you can control how the genre is going.
You know I would go back and try WoW again accept for one thing the raiding part. It wasn't so much the monotony of the same dungeons that got to me it was getting money gold rather to buy the consumables or to buy the recipe I needed to make the potions. I just did not have the energy to farm for money and then buy the potions then do the raids. This was the part I really hated about WoW.
That and the fact that I was so lazy about money that my highest toon had only a basic mount at 64. I know I am just horrible about money I have been in every game I have played. I am not a bad player and I manage in most games to become a valuable part of the guilds I belonged to but when I get outpaced on money issues in game I generally cannot keep up. Games like City of X were great because it involved more skill than gear. So I could shine without having to get gold to buy things. I could be good without having to buy things. That is my main problem with games these days. You probably think I sound like a lazy person but I think the mechanic that makes you have to grind for money constantly to pay for things is flawed.
You know when I reached 50 in Everquest I raided did Temple of Veeshan the Planes did all of it until I think I quit after the expansion after Scars of Velious I do not recall the name now. I never had to keep up on the gear so much.Yes I had to spend on jewellery but after I got one set for each type of damage and some of the raid gear which through my attendance and DKP I got I did not have to constantly do maintenance and I got to enjoy the game .Play an alt and come raid when I wanted by putting on the appropriate jewellery for the encounter. With WoW it was always a huge job to keep up on the expenses. If they took away this aspect of the game I'd go back in a heartbeat.
You make an excellent point, here. I am 33, and have been playing mmorpgs since Asheron's Call original release date, and I played MUDs for a few years before. There has been a considerable community shift over the years, and I feel that's why so many are feeling stagnation.
AC had a fun community, especially on Thistledown server, which seemingly had the big personalities. The whole genre was so new, and the communities were more naturally friendly and cooperative.
I then played DAoC off an on for about two years. Again, excellent community, especially since the three sided faction war really encouraged cooperation.
I want to say that the first 5 years of my playing mmorpgs, I had many great community interactions among all of the various games I tried. However, with each passing game an inherent competitive spirit was also weasling its way in.
DAoC would be a good early example for me. The push to 50 was basically countless hours spent grinding very specific spots, and other groups would come in and try to hunt as well. However, each spawn could only support one group at a time, so there was much bickering over "spawn" ownership.
Similar events took place in all of the mmorpgs I played, with various quest mobs being camped, dungeons being overrun, etc. So now we have E-sports moving into mmorpgs (arena and rated BGs in WoW now), and super guilds competing for world first boss kills in raiding and what not. There is a tremendous amount of competition within the genre now, much of it artifical and not really related to PvP directly.
The carrot-on-a-stick, grinding nature of many mmorpgs fostered xenophobic guild interactions and a general lack of community spirit. This, I feel, is why I think so many of us feel there is a lack of community within games, let alone gaming forums.
This is also why I think GW2 is going to be a culture shock for many gamers. Aside from the pvp aspect of GW2, the entire PvE aspect is oozing with a cooperative spirit. Want a more epic dynamic quest event? Get more people there. You don't have to be grouped with people in order to work together and get rewarded equally for your effort. The fall of the reliance on the "holy trinity", which may also foster more inventive ways of tackling content.
2011 might be an interesting year for mmorpgs, especially if GW2 does well.
Not to be a smart ass, honestly asking you to clarify this...isn't the OP the topic? "It my time to slowly say goodbye"
OP, have fun. We all get burnout at some point with something - gamers come and go daily. It's nothing but natural tbh.
Just as a point of reference, I'm twice as old as the OP (well, close....48 in May) and while I understand burn out on the genre, I can also say that I am super stoked to see what is COMING to the genre.
I just wanted to make it perfectly CLEAR that not everyone that is "old guard" or "old school," is giving up on the genre OR wishing it was like back in the "olden days." I want it to PROGRESS and MOVE FORWARD. Stagnation is boring and stagnant people are boring and get bored easily. That's just how it is.
So, "New Generation"......I say "BRING IT ON!"
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJFrgHFHLzU
Do it with flair and passion..
Yep, I plus-one this post, applies to me too.
Old guard or old school as well (well, I played EQ, a bit of UO and DAoC - a few hours of Meridian59 before it scared me back to EQ), but I also am looking forward to the upcoming games. Nostalgia is all fine, but there's a reason that memories are often glorify the past and make it feel more glamorous than things often really were. Those memories should stay in the past, there's enough progression and diversity in MMO games to look forward to the next few years when one keeps his/her expectations realistic and grounded
Simply brilliant post.
Awesome
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You remind me of what Goerge Carlin (RIP) said and the analogy fits you here very well.
"Did you know that? That's all we have. That's all we have here folks. Mile after mile of mall after mall; many, many malls. Major malls and mini-malls. They put the mini-malls. They pu the mini-malls in between the major malls. And in between the mini-malls they put the mini-marts. And in between the mini-malls they put the mini-marts. And in the between the mini-marts they pu the car lots, gas stations, muffler shops, laundry mats, cheap hotels, fast-food joints, strip clubs, and dirty bookstores.
America the Beautiful. One big transcontinental commercial cesspool. And how do the people feel about all of this? How do the people feel about living in a bicoastal shopping mall?
Well, they think it's JUST FUCKING DANDY!"
Like you said just because you are older doesn't mean you have the perception or standards that we have. Age means nothing, I know younger people who cannot accept shallow game play. I know older people who play a shallow game and they think it's "JUST FUCKING DANDY!".
I am all for "Next Generation" but if you've seen all the developed who claimed their games is "Next Generation" you'd be surprised. The recent one which is under Closed Beta (is advertised as such) and it's nothing but a compelte clone of World of Warcraft. You like that, dont you? Quest Driven, hand holding, Shallow game play, same artificial itemization system, GPS maps pointing you towards where they want you to go, complete linearity. Good for you, I'm glad you're having fun because there are too many of those games that you enjoy so much.
But for us, in the other hand, we demand depth. We dont want the old games to come back again. But we want a better direction to MMORPG genre. A different genre actually. This problem is not new, it is not a problem to MMORPGs only. Even in RPGs we had the "Action" RPG (Diablo) and the "Classic" RPG (Baldur's Gate). So, some people like fast paces with no RPG element whatsoever (Except for.... leveling.. and since when that's considered RPG??). Others just like the other kind of "RPGs" you know those who get the option to actually god damn role play a little?
Also, don't delude yourself with this "Stagnation". The real stagnation is the standardized Quest-Driven crap developers are throwing at us. Different theme, same shit again and again.I am with developement and progress. That is EXACTLY why I hate the MMORPG direction. If you think copying the same Quest Driven system over and over again is progress, then guess who's with "stagnation"?
Stop deluding yourself. The MMORPG genre is on a hold. There's no progress whatsoever.
I am not quitting though. Because my hopes are high with Studio 38 and CCP new MMORPG "World of Darkness". They will break the stupid mold that you enjoy so much. According to R. A. Salvatore who is working in Studio 38 he said something like "The last thing you want to do is holding people's hand". Also, CCP known for being creative with their titles (EVE Online). In the mean while enjoy the hundreds of "next generation" titles.
In the meantime, enjoy waiting and waiting and putting all your hopes on one or two titles, while others are having great fun actually playing MMO games in the meantime, great fun they'll continue having when they're gonna play WoD as well
The difference is, those other people will have had great fun and memories actually playing while the others have done nothing but waiting and hoping.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You're wrong. I am having fun playing these games too. But I don't consider them the same genre as others. Just like I had fun playing Diablo 2 but it was a completely different genre from say Baldur's Gate, Torment and Fallout. They are all advertised as "RPGs" but are they really equal? D2 is action oriented while the others are, well, role playing oriented.
I am playing EQ Project 1999 and having a blast. But I am also looking for a new game with depth. I was playing Aion and enjoying it too. Don't be decieved. Just because I demand a form of game play because the market lacks it. Doesn't mean I shun everything else. It just frustrates me that there are too many apples but not oranges at all (except very old ones).
My review of Rift: Planes of Telara was "good" because I look at it as a "different" game. I love StarCraft 2, doesn't fulfill my need of an MMORPG with depth though. The difference between those who encourage shallow game play and those who cricizie it is that we (critiques) demand variety while they (those who think it's fucking dandy) are satisfied with what we already have and would be satisfied even if they were given a plate of crap (in the non literal sense).
Bull ****. There is a clear difference between yawn inducing quests you can clear on autoattack and group content that tests the strengths and "SKILLS" of the player behind that character and if he or she can press exactly the right buttons to put in the correct teamwork/damage/healing/tanking/CC/etc needed to clear that instance or boss.
I think it is hilarious that while you posted words upon words on raging against the 'quest driven crap', the games you quoted 'Diablo and BG' have the same questing system. Except that MMO can be played with other people what do you have against questing anyway?
Last I checked, most RPGs have some type of 'go here and do XYZ for 123 (item and/or EXP)'. Dragon Age, PS:T, BG, Mass Effect, NWN and yes even WoW.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
rofl, you think playing pve in an mmo takes skill.
Your "skill" taking content, doesnt take any skill, it takes so little skill that alot of 5-6 man stuff can be done with a group of 3 actually decent people and not pugs.
You know what takes REAL skill? being able to clear group content solo, clearling group content with a group takes about as much skill as clearly solo content solo.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
This, EVERY RPG does this, even D&D, apparently people havnt figured out that even in virtual worlds theres tasks to do, its just seems to fly right over there head, but i guess it would make more sense for you to get up everyday, leave your house, kill random living things for 12 hours, then go to bed asnd repeat that every day.
Thats not how the world works and thats not how good rpg worlds work, good rpg worlds have you doing quests.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I know the difference. There are instances in PvE that do really do require a full group knowing what they are doing. In LoTRO, Fornost instance clearing the 4 bosses. I can guarantee this is impossible to do with 3 people even if they are the most skilled MMO'ers ever, and I'm talking about being in its target level range (level 40-45 and then attempting it). Fornost is next on Turbine's list of instances to noobify (I can't say if its still in its original state, Turbine has been releasing patches to make everything easier every month) so if you want to experience that get on it quick. If you make a character now you can reach level 40 before the year is over and try to clear that with 3 people.
Diablo is a shallow "RPG" if it is a RPG at all. I never mentioned Diablo being the example games should follow. My comparison between Baldur's gate and diablo is to show the difference between WoW and Everquest. Does it make sense now? it is just like what we got on the mid 90s with Diablo being the fast-paced RPG and BG being slower with more RPG element. They are two completely different genres just like Quest Driven MMORPGs (WoW) is different from EverQuest. Make sense now?
There's also a HUGE difference between Quest Driven game and Quests. Quests are a tool to the game and should never be THE game. Let's not talk about RPGs we are here for MMORPGs. Big difference. Simply because RPGs you play them alone or with a small group of people while an MMORPG should be, well, an MMORPG.
One of the MANY things "Quest Driven System" do to MMORPGs is that the player is focused on the upper-right section where the summary of the quests is showing to do things. Everyone around you is doing the same. Focused and Busy to do these errands non stop 24/7 from level 1 till max. That's how it is designed and that's how people are doing it. The quests never stop and you usually end up with a 30/30 quest log. This detracts from communicating with others, discourage grouping and reduce exploration options to Zero.
If MMROPG to you means a Single Player Game with Too Many Errands then fine. But to me MMORPG should be about playing with/against masses fo players. You don't need to "group" with them but there are many means of connections that players can do if the tools are available. But what happens now with Quest Driven games is that everyone running around to simply cause lag and nothing else but that. The dungeons are instances, the Quests are repeated, no exploration, no ecomony, just a massive amount of people running around soloing. They are all doing the same quest, alone, turning it in the quest hub and running back again to the same area you're heading. Hand Held from the day they login until they reach the max level.
Group sessions for quest, even as rare as they are, end up as soon as the "quest" is finished.
In the other hand if developers would focus more on Content than on hand holding players through "quests". Then we'd end up with a better game play. Quests are not the problem, but when you get too many of them and when they point you to where they want you to be.. that's a shallow game play. If you kill a Dragon then you should be able to loot his head. Having to head back to town to find someone with a big exclamation mark just to be able to loot that dragno's head is stupid.