You seem rather dismissive of why people don't play Vanguard. The game was horrid upon release. it was so bad the game failed. To site that as the example why there is no interest in this type of oldschool style game seems a bit unfair.
So what if they fixed it. If a game is broken at release, the trend is it never recovers. There are lots of reasons. Blaming it a lack of interest in old school style games, again seems a bit unfair.
I would like a sandbox game with skill points and no predefined classes. It would be a game more closely resembling real life, which is why some refer to this type of game as a virtual world. A big giant world without loading screens and overuse of instances.
Precu SWG was a lot of fun for me. I would like that game but it doesn't exist, so I'm waiting for something similar.
Fallen Earth came close, but then you have to do certain quests to get ap, thus instigating an ap/quest grind. Also they do not have housing, player cities, player run structures, etc, and their crafting system is your typical A+B+C=D. Yes, Fallen Earth was close but didn't go far enough.
There is no AP grind in FE any longer...And the construction skill is in and players are making some great camps , Houseing is on the horizon..
The AP grind is still there. They just maxed how much AP you can get per level. You still have to go back at some point and grind quests at endgame if you want max AP to be competitive in pvp. Or am I wrong? Perhaps I misunderstood the changes...
Housing may never be implemented from what I understand. I read somewhere it had been shifted to one of their 'long term' goals, and my never see the light of day. Again, I could be wrong. Just going by what I have read on forum boards.
There are actually repeatable quests that are races requiring you to hit check points in a certain amount of time that will reward you 2 AP if you don't feel like going back and grinding the standard quests. Either way it's a grind, but the longer I play MMO's the more I think accomplishing anything in an MMO is a grind in one form or another.
Take Vanguard for example. A great "sequel" to Everquest, a lot more so than Everquest 2...and a nice open world. A great oldschool style MMO.
You say "BUT IT HAD A BAD RELEASE!"
And I say
"An icecream man dropped my icecream and I will never buy icecream again!"
No, but you don't dust off the same icecream and keep eating it. It just took so long time to fix it up that the game got bad reputation. And after it was fixed SOE only added a skeleton crew to it and few people want to play a game with few updates and no possible expansion.
That is just half of the problem of course, VG have weak points as well as wjat it is doing right.
I feel however that what many of us veterans want is a new game that uses some of the good features the old games used to have together with some newer before seen features as well. Just remaking EQ or M59 with better graphics wont work.
But what I really dislike with modern MMOs is the fact that they do most things the same as the old school games but only simpler and smaller. They cut many of the features, like real darkness and similar things, killed exploration with having a small and linear world and gone too far with making things easy to access.
But they havn't really added that much new to the genre. Look on pen and paper RPGs, they have changed a lot since the mid 70s, there are still some oldschool but there are also a variety of different mechanics and worlds. MMOs have very few new ideas and you can more or less choose between a copy of D&D or Eve online.
I don't know what you guys want but I know what I want and that is something old and something new. I want it to be hard enough to be an effort but not impossible. I want the game to feel like I havn't played it before when I try it.
Vanguard still to this day isn't an Everquest. It tried, but because it couldn't infringe on the rights of Everquest IP, some of the most important aspects of EQ were not in Vanguard. Things such as lore, history, faction, and many old nostalgic npc's, items, quests, etc.. All those things were missing from Vanguard. So while Vanguard is closer to EQ1 than EQ2 is, it still doesn't make it a rightful successor.
Biggest mistake Brad McQuaid made was to steer away from the Everquest franchise when making an EQ3 (Vanguard). It's like watching clones of movies, they just aren't the same. He should've rejoined SOE and told them very well what intentions he had, and see if he could've gotten the funding and developers to make a real EQ3. He missed that boat, and now SOE is making Everquest Next.
Do people want old school MMO's? I'd say yes, a lot of people would love to see a real remake of Everquest, Dark Ages of Camelot, and Asheron's Call. Those 3 classics brought many of us into this genre, those 3 classics invented so much for the genre...many were great ideas that later were evolved by other games. I'd love to see remakes of those 3, with better graphics & interface, better engine, and of course a tad less tedium. Vanguard was supposed to utilize the old school EQ ideas but less the tedium, but they sort of invented their own tedium plus a host of many other issues.
When Turbine created AC2, they ditched AC1 playerbase and made something completely different. AC2 failed, they closed the game down. Mythic went with WAR instead of making a DAOC 2, they wanted a slice of WoW pie and what they got instead is a pie in the face. They ended up having a game with less PvE content than WoW, and much more horrible RvR than DAOC. Again, they ditched their loyal fanbase, same thing Turbine did when they created AC2.
SOE, same thing, created an EQ2 that's nothing like EQ1. They used the name Everquest 2 because they knew Everquest was a well known name, so they used that name to sell their game. While it's not exactly a failure, it did take them several years to finally succeed in keeping a stable playerbase. EQ1 was still more popular than EQ2 during EQ2's first 2 years after launch.
I don't really think we have an old school remake with less tedium yet. Vanguard is a failed game with 0 developers left on the team, 0 communication on their official forums, and 0 game updates in a very long time with no vision of what's to come (if any at all). People not playing Vanguard should not be used as a benchmark.
Vanguard was designed with oldschool values in mind, some were implemented.
Although I still see VG as the most inventive MMO since its launch, it is still stone dead and its body has been looted by SOE.
Therefore I dont think you can use VG as a guideline to whether people will play an oldschool MMO.
But regarding the topic, oldschool MMO sounds like an outdated type of game but I understand what you mean - A game based on virtues the old games had but with up to date tech and graphics.
I think there are as many players for a quality long term MMO in 2011 as there were in 1999, only thing that changed is now there are x times more players. Even though an oldschool MMO might have a million players (fictious numbers) and a ez-mode will have 99 million, it doesnt mean the game for 1 million is a bad investment.
So I hope a decent sized game company will make a great game aiming for those of us who have been waiting for a good mmo since around 2004.
We want the old school idea until we play one and find ourselves wanting it to be more like the same old stuff we have been playing. So we go back to the same old game and fall in love with the old school idea again.
I just want a game with more varied gameplay than tank, heal, and dps.
Devs, please? Even EQ was more than just tank and spank.
Indeed, where is slowing, kiting, mesmerizing, rooting, range management.
Or how about some new stuff, like using the environment (duck behind a rock), or hitting a certain area/part of a mob instead of eating hp ... devs use your imagination there should be new ways to improve MMO's.
I just want a game with more varied gameplay than tank, heal, and dps.
Devs, please? Even EQ was more than just tank and spank.
Indeed, where is slowing, kiting, mesmerizing, rooting, range management.
Charm, stun death, pet team swarms, debuff to lvl 1 rat... could keep going.
Or how about some new stuff, like using the environment (duck behind a rock), or hitting a certain area/part of a mob instead of eating hp ... devs use your imagination there should be new ways to improve MMO's.
Exactly, instead of adding more mechanics after WoW refined and popularized the genre, everything has typically been getting even simpler with pretty graphics.
Edit: WoW does have hiding behind objects ;p
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If you enjoy / can put up with PvP. Darkfall is there, not quiet as sandbox as I'd like it to be but a very fun game with freedom and fun things to do.
I think old school MMO's are actually still fun to play, I can list a handful I loved and one or 2 I still play including Ragnarok Online.
RO is a game I still play and pay for even thou I do stop every so often to focus on school and work but to me is a classic that got me into tons of other mmo style games.
Originals are the foundation and heck I still play my NES games a good amount of times when I want some classics.
They don't. I ~promise you~, they don't. They think they do, but no. I understand what they want though, it's not the old MMO but the feeling of it. When MMOs were fresh and new and exciting, when people did things together because they actually needed each other, all that bonding and fun over something you haven't already done a hundred times already. THAT'S what people want, and they're never going to have it again because MMO's have existed long enough that they're a dime a dozen now. Even the newest ones, once you get past the bells and whistles and fresh coats of paint, are the same games you've been playing for a while now.
Once you breakdown 'old school MMOs' all you have is a grind (because back then that's how you leveled, just killing things over and over and over), camping (and praying you got there and killed it before everyone else did), and forced-teaming. The community as a whole have already made their feelings on the above three things exceedingly clear.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Is it possible that we NEED the TRINITY to have an old school mmo? What I think was so great about EQ1 was the fact that before you even left your noob zone, you were learning to group. The trinity was in full force with added dps and cc classes. You needed a warrior and you needed a healer. You also needed some dps and crowd controll. That is what made EQ 1 so great. All the social aspects. Even stuff like not having a map added to the allure, You needed to have someone show you how to get to a place. Holy shit, You had to memorize where places were.
I think alot of people dont want that play experience. But, I also think alot of people do want that old school style... with updated graphics. The fact is VG failed at launch. We really havent had any old school type games since then. I also dont think VG was that old school. I think any class can solo now. Old school was not about that. It was abou tthe need to have other people. That NEED is what I think we are missing today.
Factions were huge. How many people got their first taste of faction in East Commonlands. When that Seargant Slate and his griphon rolled up on you and beat the shit out of you. Killed you real quick. You learned though. You stayed off that path and probably ran right into the mummies. You learned to fork the other way then, Factions were really awesome in the fact that they weer thrown right in the middle of safe zones. You got the feeling you were never safe. Fear is exciting.
I dont think we need the strict death penalties like losing your corpse. Nothing suked more than dieing and never getting your stuff back, I am positive many people quit over that. Luckily I was a Necro. People would pay me to get their corpse back. How cool is that? People actually NEEDED me to do something they would never be able to do. I felt Heroic. I felt like I contributed to the community. I felt important.
Buffs anyone? Buffs meant alot. You payed that druid for sow. You paid for clarity. You paid for whatever that hP buff was that clerics would throw down. Alcracity was a monks wet dream. You were so thankful for these things as they really made the difference between life and death. Nowadays I get a buff and I simply dont care. I wont even read the buff, I wont notice when it drops. It will not save my life.
I really hope EQ Next delivers on some of this stuff. I really hope there is 250,000 more people like me. Willing and thankful for a chance to sub to another EQ
Is it possible that we NEED the TRINITY to have an old school mmo? What I think was so great about EQ1 was the fact that before you even left your noob zone, you were learning to group. The trinity was in full force with added dps and cc classes. You needed a warrior and you needed a healer. You also needed some dps and crowd controll. That is what made EQ 1 so great. All the social aspects. Even stuff like not having a map added to the allure, You needed to have someone show you how to get to a place. Holy shit, You had to memorize where places were.
No, no, no, and no. EQ was not a Trinity game aside from raiding and Brad's vile Vision.
Warrior? A tank class was not actually required for any group content in the early days (and most of the games history). Easier? Sometimes but not always. Trinity group was the best exp? Hardly. Trinity group was just a "safe" and easy way of doing things.
Healer? Why did you need a healer when avoiding damage in the first place was almost always a possible until Kunark?
CC? Well, CC was useful. A chanter was nearly god mode for groups but certainly not required and did not fit with certain group setups.
EQ was so much more than the Trinity and the (lack of) Vision.
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I'm tired of traditional, I want games with (ideas at least, since it hasn't come out, using it's theory as an example) like guild wars 2, that you don't just rinse and repeat raids and such, but the world seems living, games like Rift with random portals opening around the world going to realms of fire, ice, dead...
Games that are fast paced like Champions Online and filled with lore, like LotRO. I don't want to see another anime-esque game that follows the same itemshop template as it's predicessors.
I want oldschool mmo classes with fps ranged combat and 3rd person melee combat like mount & blade or pirates vikings and knights. Basically i want an fps version of daoc .
What turned me off VG (i played at least 6 months from launch) was endless elite trash mobs with 1000's of hitpoints that arent really a challenge just a waste fo time. Give me 10 regular mobs at once instad of one or 2 elite mobs that you just tank and spank for 5 minutes each. Nothing puts me to sleep faster. Aion and WAR were just as bad.
Im so tired of these elite mobs in mmo's now that are only elite becuase they have a billion hitpoints. It always amuses me to think that us players are supposed to be defenders of our realm or heroes when one elite mob = a group of 6 players. Just get those elites to defend the realm there are 1000's of them just standing around.
Im so tired of these elite mobs in mmo's now that are only elite becuase they have a billion hitpoints. It always amuses me to think that us players are supposed to be defenders of our realm or heroes when one elite mob = a group of 6 players. Just get those elites to defend the realm there are 1000's of them just standing around.
If thats "oldschool" then i say no.
Maybe for some it is. To me? It's one of the worst features of "old school" MMOs. Technology has improved we can have tons of mobs and tons of players in the same area without issue. There is little reason for this mechanic anymore.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
I want oldschool mmo classes with fps ranged combat and 3rd person melee combat like mount & blade or pirates vikings and knights. Basically i want an fps version of daoc .
What turned me off VG (i played at least 6 months from launch) was endless elite trash mobs with 1000's of hitpoints that arent really a challenge just a waste fo time. Give me 10 regular mobs at once instad of one or 2 elite mobs that you just tank and spank for 5 minutes each. Nothing puts me to sleep faster. Aion and WAR were just as bad.
Im so tired of these elite mobs in mmo's now that are only elite becuase they have a billion hitpoints. It always amuses me to think that us players are supposed to be defenders of our realm or heroes when one elite mob = a group of 6 players. Just get those elites to defend the realm there are 1000's of them just standing around.
If thats "oldschool" then i say no.
Yep, I absolutely hate elite mobs! Real elite mobs back in eq's day was the dragons. I really wish that they would move away from these elite creatures all over the place. That is one in many gripes I have in todays mmos.
I want oldschool mmo classes with fps ranged combat and 3rd person melee combat like mount & blade or pirates vikings and knights. Basically i want an fps version of daoc .
What turned me off VG (i played at least 6 months from launch) was endless elite trash mobs with 1000's of hitpoints that arent really a challenge just a waste fo time. Give me 10 regular mobs at once instad of one or 2 elite mobs that you just tank and spank for 5 minutes each. Nothing puts me to sleep faster. Aion and WAR were just as bad.
Im so tired of these elite mobs in mmo's now that are only elite becuase they have a billion hitpoints. It always amuses me to think that us players are supposed to be defenders of our realm or heroes when one elite mob = a group of 6 players. Just get those elites to defend the realm there are 1000's of them just standing around.
If thats "oldschool" then i say no.
Yep, I absolutely hate elite mobs! Real elite mobs back in eq's day was the dragons. I really wish that they would move away from these elite creatures all over the place. That is one in many gripes I have in todays mmos.
EQ didnt have heroic camps all over the place? or am i mis reading this?
People need to get off the whole "Vanguard is a great game now"
1. It has a very low subscriber base. People return frequently to see how it's doing and leave shortly after because it's empty.
2. It has no support from SoE because it's not a moneymaker.
3. The game has changed from being hard core to watered down in order to get more people to play thus effectively alienating the crowd the game set out to capture in the first place.
So lets look at it. The biggest problem with the game is not enough subscribers. To get people to play you need to have a vibrant and alive gameworld so people can actually play together. While this problem could be fixed if more people gave the game a chance, it really is nothing but an impossible to escape circle. People are not going to give it a chance when it's empty. To stop it from being empty people need to play. Which leads to problem number two. If you can find a solution to the biggest problem other than "People should just give it another shot" SoE may start developing on the game again. It will never retain a high subscriber number because of point number 3. Vanguard didn't set out to conquer 11 million users. Just the EQ crowd which then was the largest group of MMO players until WoW showed up. They alienated that group with all the changes made to the game making it some weird hybrid between niche and mainstream that nobody can really relate to.
That's how I see it anyway. The whole "Vanguard is great now" really needs to go away. It's irrelevant.
I love VG but paart of the reason I dont play is I think for game with such low population and an older game now should not be so expensive to play at this point. I would sub again if it was like in the $5 to $10 dollar range for sub. I would play SWG old school as well.
I want oldschool mmo classes with fps ranged combat and 3rd person melee combat like mount & blade or pirates vikings and knights. Basically i want an fps version of daoc .
What turned me off VG (i played at least 6 months from launch) was endless elite trash mobs with 1000's of hitpoints that arent really a challenge just a waste fo time. Give me 10 regular mobs at once instad of one or 2 elite mobs that you just tank and spank for 5 minutes each. Nothing puts me to sleep faster. Aion and WAR were just as bad.
Im so tired of these elite mobs in mmo's now that are only elite becuase they have a billion hitpoints. It always amuses me to think that us players are supposed to be defenders of our realm or heroes when one elite mob = a group of 6 players. Just get those elites to defend the realm there are 1000's of them just standing around.
If thats "oldschool" then i say no.
Yep, I absolutely hate elite mobs! Real elite mobs back in eq's day was the dragons. I really wish that they would move away from these elite creatures all over the place. That is one in many gripes I have in todays mmos.
EQ didnt have heroic camps all over the place? or am i mis reading this?
Not in the same way since all but a few classes could solo practically everything in the game aside from a raid boss when played properly.
But mobs certainly were tough in general. Bit tougher than a properly equiped warrior of equal level actually (depending on class of mob) ;p
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You seem rather dismissive of why people don't play Vanguard. The game was horrid upon release. it was so bad the game failed. To site that as the example why there is no interest in this type of oldschool style game seems a bit unfair.
The game actually was not that bad at release. Yes Vanguard had CTD (crash to desktop) but that was fixed rather quickly. And if people actually liked the game enough, they would have sticked with it for those few weeks it took to get the bugs out.
I'm convinced that the main reason was that Vanguard was too hardcore for most players.
I agree. I've played it from open beta and was on and off again once upon a time. Many of the bugs people complained about, I've never really experienced, but that doesnt mean that it wasnt there. If you were really enjoying a game like Vanguard, the bugs wouldnt have compromised your decision to keep playing it.
Oh how I would love to get back into the game. There are only 3 games that I still miss dearly, Ultima Online, Everquest, and Vanguard. I have always come back to play these games, no matter how short or long I stay playing, it will always satisfy my gaming needs. Now that I have no game to play, I've really been thinking about subscribing to one of these games really soon.
Comments
There are actually repeatable quests that are races requiring you to hit check points in a certain amount of time that will reward you 2 AP if you don't feel like going back and grinding the standard quests. Either way it's a grind, but the longer I play MMO's the more I think accomplishing anything in an MMO is a grind in one form or another.
Steam: Neph
No, but you don't dust off the same icecream and keep eating it. It just took so long time to fix it up that the game got bad reputation. And after it was fixed SOE only added a skeleton crew to it and few people want to play a game with few updates and no possible expansion.
That is just half of the problem of course, VG have weak points as well as wjat it is doing right.
I feel however that what many of us veterans want is a new game that uses some of the good features the old games used to have together with some newer before seen features as well. Just remaking EQ or M59 with better graphics wont work.
But what I really dislike with modern MMOs is the fact that they do most things the same as the old school games but only simpler and smaller. They cut many of the features, like real darkness and similar things, killed exploration with having a small and linear world and gone too far with making things easy to access.
But they havn't really added that much new to the genre. Look on pen and paper RPGs, they have changed a lot since the mid 70s, there are still some oldschool but there are also a variety of different mechanics and worlds. MMOs have very few new ideas and you can more or less choose between a copy of D&D or Eve online.
I don't know what you guys want but I know what I want and that is something old and something new. I want it to be hard enough to be an effort but not impossible. I want the game to feel like I havn't played it before when I try it.
Vanguard still to this day isn't an Everquest. It tried, but because it couldn't infringe on the rights of Everquest IP, some of the most important aspects of EQ were not in Vanguard. Things such as lore, history, faction, and many old nostalgic npc's, items, quests, etc.. All those things were missing from Vanguard. So while Vanguard is closer to EQ1 than EQ2 is, it still doesn't make it a rightful successor.
Biggest mistake Brad McQuaid made was to steer away from the Everquest franchise when making an EQ3 (Vanguard). It's like watching clones of movies, they just aren't the same. He should've rejoined SOE and told them very well what intentions he had, and see if he could've gotten the funding and developers to make a real EQ3. He missed that boat, and now SOE is making Everquest Next.
Do people want old school MMO's? I'd say yes, a lot of people would love to see a real remake of Everquest, Dark Ages of Camelot, and Asheron's Call. Those 3 classics brought many of us into this genre, those 3 classics invented so much for the genre...many were great ideas that later were evolved by other games. I'd love to see remakes of those 3, with better graphics & interface, better engine, and of course a tad less tedium. Vanguard was supposed to utilize the old school EQ ideas but less the tedium, but they sort of invented their own tedium plus a host of many other issues.
When Turbine created AC2, they ditched AC1 playerbase and made something completely different. AC2 failed, they closed the game down. Mythic went with WAR instead of making a DAOC 2, they wanted a slice of WoW pie and what they got instead is a pie in the face. They ended up having a game with less PvE content than WoW, and much more horrible RvR than DAOC. Again, they ditched their loyal fanbase, same thing Turbine did when they created AC2.
SOE, same thing, created an EQ2 that's nothing like EQ1. They used the name Everquest 2 because they knew Everquest was a well known name, so they used that name to sell their game. While it's not exactly a failure, it did take them several years to finally succeed in keeping a stable playerbase. EQ1 was still more popular than EQ2 during EQ2's first 2 years after launch.
I don't really think we have an old school remake with less tedium yet. Vanguard is a failed game with 0 developers left on the team, 0 communication on their official forums, and 0 game updates in a very long time with no vision of what's to come (if any at all). People not playing Vanguard should not be used as a benchmark.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
Vanguard was designed with oldschool values in mind, some were implemented.
Although I still see VG as the most inventive MMO since its launch, it is still stone dead and its body has been looted by SOE.
Therefore I dont think you can use VG as a guideline to whether people will play an oldschool MMO.
But regarding the topic, oldschool MMO sounds like an outdated type of game but I understand what you mean - A game based on virtues the old games had but with up to date tech and graphics.
I think there are as many players for a quality long term MMO in 2011 as there were in 1999, only thing that changed is now there are x times more players. Even though an oldschool MMO might have a million players (fictious numbers) and a ez-mode will have 99 million, it doesnt mean the game for 1 million is a bad investment.
So I hope a decent sized game company will make a great game aiming for those of us who have been waiting for a good mmo since around 2004.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
No, they just think they do.
Collector's editions are scams.
I just want a game with more varied gameplay than tank, heal, and dps.
Devs, please? Even EQ was more than just tank and spank.
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We like the idea of an old school mmo
We want the old school idea until we play one and find ourselves wanting it to be more like the same old stuff we have been playing. So we go back to the same old game and fall in love with the old school idea again.
Indeed, where is slowing, kiting, mesmerizing, rooting, range management.
Or how about some new stuff, like using the environment (duck behind a rock), or hitting a certain area/part of a mob instead of eating hp ... devs use your imagination there should be new ways to improve MMO's.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Exactly, instead of adding more mechanics after WoW refined and popularized the genre, everything has typically been getting even simpler with pretty graphics.
Edit: WoW does have hiding behind objects ;p
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
If you enjoy / can put up with PvP. Darkfall is there, not quiet as sandbox as I'd like it to be but a very fun game with freedom and fun things to do.
I think old school MMO's are actually still fun to play, I can list a handful I loved and one or 2 I still play including Ragnarok Online.
RO is a game I still play and pay for even thou I do stop every so often to focus on school and work but to me is a classic that got me into tons of other mmo style games.
Originals are the foundation and heck I still play my NES games a good amount of times when I want some classics.
They don't. I ~promise you~, they don't. They think they do, but no. I understand what they want though, it's not the old MMO but the feeling of it. When MMOs were fresh and new and exciting, when people did things together because they actually needed each other, all that bonding and fun over something you haven't already done a hundred times already. THAT'S what people want, and they're never going to have it again because MMO's have existed long enough that they're a dime a dozen now. Even the newest ones, once you get past the bells and whistles and fresh coats of paint, are the same games you've been playing for a while now.
Once you breakdown 'old school MMOs' all you have is a grind (because back then that's how you leveled, just killing things over and over and over), camping (and praying you got there and killed it before everyone else did), and forced-teaming. The community as a whole have already made their feelings on the above three things exceedingly clear.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Is it possible that we NEED the TRINITY to have an old school mmo? What I think was so great about EQ1 was the fact that before you even left your noob zone, you were learning to group. The trinity was in full force with added dps and cc classes. You needed a warrior and you needed a healer. You also needed some dps and crowd controll. That is what made EQ 1 so great. All the social aspects. Even stuff like not having a map added to the allure, You needed to have someone show you how to get to a place. Holy shit, You had to memorize where places were.
I think alot of people dont want that play experience. But, I also think alot of people do want that old school style... with updated graphics. The fact is VG failed at launch. We really havent had any old school type games since then. I also dont think VG was that old school. I think any class can solo now. Old school was not about that. It was abou tthe need to have other people. That NEED is what I think we are missing today.
Factions were huge. How many people got their first taste of faction in East Commonlands. When that Seargant Slate and his griphon rolled up on you and beat the shit out of you. Killed you real quick. You learned though. You stayed off that path and probably ran right into the mummies. You learned to fork the other way then, Factions were really awesome in the fact that they weer thrown right in the middle of safe zones. You got the feeling you were never safe. Fear is exciting.
I dont think we need the strict death penalties like losing your corpse. Nothing suked more than dieing and never getting your stuff back, I am positive many people quit over that. Luckily I was a Necro. People would pay me to get their corpse back. How cool is that? People actually NEEDED me to do something they would never be able to do. I felt Heroic. I felt like I contributed to the community. I felt important.
Buffs anyone? Buffs meant alot. You payed that druid for sow. You paid for clarity. You paid for whatever that hP buff was that clerics would throw down. Alcracity was a monks wet dream. You were so thankful for these things as they really made the difference between life and death. Nowadays I get a buff and I simply dont care. I wont even read the buff, I wont notice when it drops. It will not save my life.
I really hope EQ Next delivers on some of this stuff. I really hope there is 250,000 more people like me. Willing and thankful for a chance to sub to another EQ
No, no, no, and no. EQ was not a Trinity game aside from raiding and Brad's vile Vision.
Warrior? A tank class was not actually required for any group content in the early days (and most of the games history). Easier? Sometimes but not always. Trinity group was the best exp? Hardly. Trinity group was just a "safe" and easy way of doing things.
Healer? Why did you need a healer when avoiding damage in the first place was almost always a possible until Kunark?
CC? Well, CC was useful. A chanter was nearly god mode for groups but certainly not required and did not fit with certain group setups.
EQ was so much more than the Trinity and the (lack of) Vision.
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I'm tired of traditional, I want games with (ideas at least, since it hasn't come out, using it's theory as an example) like guild wars 2, that you don't just rinse and repeat raids and such, but the world seems living, games like Rift with random portals opening around the world going to realms of fire, ice, dead...
Games that are fast paced like Champions Online and filled with lore, like LotRO. I don't want to see another anime-esque game that follows the same itemshop template as it's predicessors.
I want 2011 to go faster basically.
I want oldschool mmo classes with fps ranged combat and 3rd person melee combat like mount & blade or pirates vikings and knights. Basically i want an fps version of daoc
.
What turned me off VG (i played at least 6 months from launch) was endless elite trash mobs with 1000's of hitpoints that arent really a challenge just a waste fo time. Give me 10 regular mobs at once instad of one or 2 elite mobs that you just tank and spank for 5 minutes each. Nothing puts me to sleep faster. Aion and WAR were just as bad.
Im so tired of these elite mobs in mmo's now that are only elite becuase they have a billion hitpoints. It always amuses me to think that us players are supposed to be defenders of our realm or heroes when one elite mob = a group of 6 players. Just get those elites to defend the realm there are 1000's of them just standing around.
If thats "oldschool" then i say no.
Yes, but only a tiny minority.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Only thing that could save Vanguard is a FTP model but not the EQ2 model it suck ass , more like LOTRO or DDO model .
Maybe for some it is. To me? It's one of the worst features of "old school" MMOs. Technology has improved we can have tons of mobs and tons of players in the same area without issue. There is little reason for this mechanic anymore.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Yep, I absolutely hate elite mobs! Real elite mobs back in eq's day was the dragons. I really wish that they would move away from these elite creatures all over the place. That is one in many gripes I have in todays mmos.
EQ didnt have heroic camps all over the place? or am i mis reading this?
People need to get off the whole "Vanguard is a great game now"
1. It has a very low subscriber base. People return frequently to see how it's doing and leave shortly after because it's empty.
2. It has no support from SoE because it's not a moneymaker.
3. The game has changed from being hard core to watered down in order to get more people to play thus effectively alienating the crowd the game set out to capture in the first place.
So lets look at it. The biggest problem with the game is not enough subscribers. To get people to play you need to have a vibrant and alive gameworld so people can actually play together. While this problem could be fixed if more people gave the game a chance, it really is nothing but an impossible to escape circle. People are not going to give it a chance when it's empty. To stop it from being empty people need to play. Which leads to problem number two. If you can find a solution to the biggest problem other than "People should just give it another shot" SoE may start developing on the game again. It will never retain a high subscriber number because of point number 3. Vanguard didn't set out to conquer 11 million users. Just the EQ crowd which then was the largest group of MMO players until WoW showed up. They alienated that group with all the changes made to the game making it some weird hybrid between niche and mainstream that nobody can really relate to.
That's how I see it anyway. The whole "Vanguard is great now" really needs to go away. It's irrelevant.
I love VG but paart of the reason I dont play is I think for game with such low population and an older game now should not be so expensive to play at this point. I would sub again if it was like in the $5 to $10 dollar range for sub. I would play SWG old school as well.
Not in the same way since all but a few classes could solo practically everything in the game aside from a raid boss when played properly.
But mobs certainly were tough in general. Bit tougher than a properly equiped warrior of equal level actually (depending on class of mob) ;p
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
I agree. I've played it from open beta and was on and off again once upon a time. Many of the bugs people complained about, I've never really experienced, but that doesnt mean that it wasnt there. If you were really enjoying a game like Vanguard, the bugs wouldnt have compromised your decision to keep playing it.
Oh how I would love to get back into the game. There are only 3 games that I still miss dearly, Ultima Online, Everquest, and Vanguard. I have always come back to play these games, no matter how short or long I stay playing, it will always satisfy my gaming needs. Now that I have no game to play, I've really been thinking about subscribing to one of these games really soon.