Why would people play a game thats pretty much identical to CO, except it having a sub AND a cash shop?
Im genuinlly confused.
Well CO DID run on a shopNsub for quite a while and even when you sub TODAY there are still options to use the shop. Honestly I see DCUO following this same path. We will see though.
I like that so many believe that once you buy a video game of any kind...you are forever entitled to any extra content that is ever created. I kind of understand how a monthly subbed mmo might make you think this is the case....but it is not. Monthly subs are for server access as far as I'm concerned..without the server..your copy of Cataclysm or DCUO is useless. In the old days..from cartridges and floppies to early dvd games...you buy the game and that was it. Gaming has changed ..as we all know....and so has the manner in which we can pay for and enjoy games. I have no problem with shops...since I have no illusions of entitlement. I wish i could pay for an MMo and just play without temptations of a cash shop..but ultimately it's my decision to buy stuff. I'm not going to give up a fun and enjoyable game just because it has an optional cash shop.
And it is our decision not to buy this game and warn others about what is going on.
You want to give more and more money to the devs, go right ahead. But I dont see why I should pay more for the exact same service that I got from other MMORPGs ten years ago.
Btw, gaming has not changed. There are tons of games, the majority, that does not cost a dime after you purchased it. That is still the norm, this is just greed.
I agree with Yamota here.
BarCrow is playing the "sense of entitlement" card to put down people who don't want to buy a product with [sub] + [cash shop]. This card is played to put down people who prefer to purchase an inclusive package game for various reasons. This is a relevant consumer point of view. This loaded term (entitlement) is a spillover from conservative politics into a discussion about a digital product being offered for sale to the public. It also implies that the person who does not have a "sense of entitlement" is more intelligent, clear-headed, and realistic in making judgements.
Let's look at the cash shop this way: Assume you go to buy a car and the basic price is 35K (whatever currency). Then the dealer says if you want spare tires, jack, rear-view mirror on the passenger side, etc., then you need to pay extra in the cash shop. You can still drive the car without a spare tire, but it is more convenient if you buy one. This is a valid business strategy.
Consumers do have a right to prefer, however, a care that sells for 35K and includes both rear-view mirrors and a spare tire, especially if this is the past industry practice and consumers don't want to see it change. Companies don't have to listen to consumers, of course.
Besides that, the extra revenue is not going to fun some small group of developers. It is going to feed Warner Brothers and Sony Entertainment Online. It is purely a strategy to milk as much money out of this product as possible. There is nothing wrong with attempting that strategy, just as there is nothing wrong with consumers voicing valid objections to such a strategy.
BarCrow, do you think consumers voicing their opinions reflects a "sense of entitlement"?
I will agree that the word "entitlement" has infected many of my conversations as of late and I too am aware of it's origins in it's current popularity. That said the car analogy is a little off They would be more likely to charge you extra for leather seats and maybe nicer rims, which is more directly analogous to what SOE is doing here with cosmetics.
You are MISSING the entire point. I don't need to pay gold in game for a mount or whatever of given speed so long as I pay cash to get my flying pegasus (that increases it's flight speed WITH your highest rating). That's what 500+ G for your first mount saved, another 500+ G saved for your even faster mount. ALL cause you gave Blizz extra money. CASH SHOP!
This money could be considered a HIGH leg up to a newcomer who doesn't have a lot of spare gold lying around for Dual Speccing, Epic riding, etc. That would be a HUGE advantage to just pay 25 bucks to save 1KG of grind.
You are incorrect. The celestial steed requires the appropriate riding skill which will cost upwards of 5,000 gold. Without the proper riding skill the celestial mount doesn't do anything.
Mounts in wow cost between 1 and 100 gold which is pocket change to max level characters and absolutely not worth spending $25 dollars to avoid.
Blizzards cash shop (and it is a cash shop) is just as much of a F-U to players as any other subscription based game that puts in a cash shop. They just have not crossed the game altering line yet with their offerings.
I will agree that the word "entitlement" has infected many of my conversations as of late and I too am aware of it's origins in it's current popularity. That said the car analogy is a little off They would be more likely to charge you extra for leather seats and maybe nicer rims, which is more directly analogous to what SOE is doing here with cosmetics.
I agree with your point.
If it's only cosmetic, I am okay with it. If it is something more related to competitiveness, it's another issue. If people want to pay extra for sparkle-ponies, I don't care, as long as I can get my own mount through the game with my sub.
I will agree that the word "entitlement" has infected many of my conversations as of late and I too am aware of it's origins in it's current popularity. That said the car analogy is a little off They would be more likely to charge you extra for leather seats and maybe nicer rims, which is more directly analogous to what SOE is doing here with cosmetics.
I agree with your point.
If it's only cosmetic, I am okay with it. If it is something more related to competitiveness, it's another issue. If people want to pay extra for sparkle-ponies, I don't care, as long as I can get my own mount through the game with my sub.
the biggest difference between blizzards cash shop and most others, is that blizzards is all vanity items, they provide no ACCTUAL benefit. I consider this kind of shop completely fine.
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
I do not understand all this ranting and all about a cash shop. If there are no powers being offered what is the big deal? The Iconic Armor sets appear so far to be the best gear to have in game and you can earn it without paying real money for it. I can see them adding in costume pieces in the cash shop so that they are unlocked at the beginning but I don't see any thing like "hey pay X dollars and get boots of super super speed".
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
I will agree that the word "entitlement" has infected many of my conversations as of late and I too am aware of it's origins in it's current popularity. That said the car analogy is a little off They would be more likely to charge you extra for leather seats and maybe nicer rims, which is more directly analogous to what SOE is doing here with cosmetics.
I agree with your point.
If it's only cosmetic, I am okay with it. If it is something more related to competitiveness, it's another issue. If people want to pay extra for sparkle-ponies, I don't care, as long as I can get my own mount through the game with my sub.
totally agree dude.
All I have to say is this: Just wait.
SOE has claimed before they were only going to do "this and that" with their cash shop or RMT and turn around a bit later and do the very thing they said they wouldn't.
NoStation Cash in EQ2? Remember?
No game altering items in the SWG lottery version of cash shop (TCG)?
And more?
My prediction (based on SOE's past behavior) is that the very first incarnation of the cash shop will not be offensive, to people that don't like cash shops, so it doesn't turn any of their potential launch customers off, and thus lose the release box price. Later on, when the subs fall, and they do in almost all SOE games after launch, and after the boxes get cheaper, they will turn around and load up the cash shop to raise revenue. Intstant travel items, character slots, buff items, they will likely be in there.
Why?
Because if the items aren't useful and desirable, people won't buy them and no increased revenue. It is just too tempting for Smed to not mess with.
I like that so many believe that once you buy a video game of any kind...you are forever entitled to any extra content that is ever created. I kind of understand how a monthly subbed mmo might make you think this is the case....but it is not. Monthly subs are for server access as far as I'm concerned..without the server..your copy of Cataclysm or DCUO is useless. In the old days..from cartridges and floppies to early dvd games...you buy the game and that was it. Gaming has changed ..as we all know....and so has the manner in which we can pay for and enjoy games. I have no problem with shops...since I have no illusions of entitlement. I wish i could pay for an MMo and just play without temptations of a cash shop..but ultimately it's my decision to buy stuff. I'm not going to give up a fun and enjoyable game just because it has an optional cash shop.
And it is our decision not to buy this game and warn others about what is going on.
You want to give more and more money to the devs, go right ahead. But I dont see why I should pay more for the exact same service that I got from other MMORPGs ten years ago.
Btw, gaming has not changed. There are tons of games, the majority, that does not cost a dime after you purchased it. That is still the norm, this is just greed.
I agree with Yamota here.
BarCrow is playing the "sense of entitlement" card to put down people who don't want to buy a product with [sub] + [cash shop]. This card is played to insult people who prefer (and state this preference) to purchase an inclusive package game for various reasons. This is a relevant consumer point of view. This loaded term (entitlement) is a spillover from conservative politics into a discussion about a digital product being offered for sale to the public. It also implies that the person who does not have a "sense of entitlement" is more intelligent, clear-headed, and realistic in making judgements.
Let's look at the cash shop this way: Assume you go to buy a car and the basic price is 35K (whatever currency). Then the dealer says if you want spare tires, jack, rear-view mirror on the passenger side, etc., then you need to pay extra in the cash shop. You can still drive the car without a spare tire, but it is more convenient if you buy one. This is a valid business strategy a car manufacturer or dealer may choose.
Consumers do have a right to prefer, however, a car that sells for 35K and includes both rear-view mirrors and a spare tire, especially if this is the past industry practice and consumers don't want to see it change. Companies don't have to listen to consumers, of course.
Besides that, the extra revenue is not going to fun some small group of developers. It is going to feed Warner Brothers and Sony Entertainment Online. It is purely a strategy to milk as much money out of this product as possible. There is nothing wrong with attempting that strategy, just as there is nothing wrong with consumers voicing valid objections to such a strategy.
BarCrow, do you think consumers voicing their opinions reflects a "sense of entitlement"?
Not at all...but I also have opinions which is one thing I believe everyone is entitled to express.
.. Funny how you basically define what you believe was the intent of my words and come to the conclusion that I am trying to insult people who believe otherwise. I guarantee you that I lack the superiority complex you apparently think I possess. When buying games, It is my preference to purchase an "all inclusive" package too....but if they come up with content later i'm not going to cry foul. I also don't understand how someone else buying a flying dragon mount in the store makes the one you earned worthless (as far as virtual goods go). If I climbed a mountain (not that my fat arse would make it without a heart attack) got to the top and got a free shirt at the gift shop stating "I climbed that mountain". Is it somehow meaningless now because my neighbor bought the same shirt off the internet. I know I climbed the mountain...does it matter what anyone else thinks? "Entitlement" wasn't a word that spilled over from the conservative political view that you've attached to me...it is merely the word that best fit. Sorry if my words hurt anyone..guess I'll just throw sticks and stones next time.
My prediction (based on SOE's past behavior) is that the very first incarnation of the cash shop will not be offensive, to people that don't like cash shops, so it doesn't turn any of their potential launch customers off, and thus lose the release box price.
I'm not going to argue with you, but clearly you're at the point where even when the company does something you agree with (i.e. a cash shop that only sells inoffensive things) you treat it as a conspiracy to put you off guard. When you become that paranoid about a company's behavior it only suggests (a) you definitely shouldn't buy their product because even when you're happy about it, you'll be convinced the big switch is always around the corner, and (b) you are beyond rational debate on the subject.
Every game's pricing model will eventually be called into question. No game lasts forever. But for now and for the foreseeable I'm content to take Sony at their word. As I said elsewhere, any gaming company with any track record at all has a trail of dissatisfied former customers a mile wide. I acknowledge your skepticism. If you really can't overcome it then don't buy from Sony. But at the same time, you've got to realize you'll miss a lot of good games that way and your only options will be the out-of-nowhere companies that often fail to even get their games to market. Just speaking personally, I'd never reduce my range of options that way.
It'll be fun while it lasts and I believe it has the potential to last a long time. I'll worry about what happens to DCUO years from now if I'm still playing years from now. And if I am, I'll have got the value from my investment, without question.
I will agree that the word "entitlement" has infected many of my conversations as of late and I too am aware of it's origins in it's current popularity. That said the car analogy is a little off They would be more likely to charge you extra for leather seats and maybe nicer rims, which is more directly analogous to what SOE is doing here with cosmetics.
I agree with your point.
If it's only cosmetic, I am okay with it. If it is something more related to competitiveness, it's another issue. If people want to pay extra for sparkle-ponies, I don't care, as long as I can get my own mount through the game with my sub.
totally agree dude.
All I have to say is this: Just wait.
SOE has claimed before they were only going to do "this and that" with their cash shop or RMT and turn around a bit later and do the very thing they said they wouldn't.
NoStation Cash in EQ2? Remember?
No game altering items in the SWG lottery version of cash shop (TCG)?
And more?
My prediction (based on SOE's past behavior) is that the very first incarnation of the cash shop will not be offensive, to people that don't like cash shops, so it doesn't turn any of their potential launch customers off, and thus lose the release box price. Later on, when the subs fall, and they do in almost all SOE games after launch, and after the boxes get cheaper, they will turn around and load up the cash shop to raise revenue. Intstant travel items, character slots, buff items, they will likely be in there.
Why?
Because if the items aren't useful and desirable, people won't buy them and no increased revenue. It is just too tempting for Smed to not mess with.
This isn't limited to SOE. Turbine claimed there were no plans for LOTRO to go to the Fremium Model. Which based on the time of the statement might or might not be true, but I would say is highly suspect for being false. Cryptic while not saying they would not go f2p did move from one model to the next. Ultimately regardless of the way it is communicated here, what we may be seing is a trend in the industry to debut with a sub and lite cash shop ( I know LOTRO did not have one)to later go to a freemium. There are just too many MMOS that have gone bust recently. I imagine it is hard for them to get backing for these projects once they release based on the last 2 years. It's been really ugly. I don't know... I don't see the the numbers, but what I do see is a lot of MMOS stuggling with maintaining subs.
My prediction (based on SOE's past behavior) is that the very first incarnation of the cash shop will not be offensive, to people that don't like cash shops, so it doesn't turn any of their potential launch customers off, and thus lose the release box price.
I'm not going to argue with you, but clearly you're at the point where even when the company does something you agree with (i.e. a cash shop that only sells inoffensive things) you treat it as a conspiracy to put you off guard. When you become that paranoid about a company's behavior it only suggests (a) you definitely shouldn't buy their product because even when you're happy about it, you'll be convinced the big switch is always around the corner, and (b) you are beyond rational debate on the subject.
Every game's pricing model will eventually be called into question. No game lasts forever. But for now and for the foreseeable I'm content to take Sony at their word. As I said elsewhere, any gaming company with any track record at all has a trail of dissatisfied former customers a mile wide. I acknowledge your skepticism. If you really can't overcome it then don't buy from Sony. But at the same time, you've got to realize you'll miss a lot of good games that way and your only options will be the out-of-nowhere companies that often fail to even get their games to market. Just speaking personally, I'd never reduce my range of options that way.
It'll be fun while it lasts and I believe it has the potential to last a long time. I'll worry about what happens to DCUO years from now if I'm still playing years from now. And if I am, I'll have got the value from my investment, without question.
Since when is calling a company on their past behavior and, expecting the exact same people (management and devs) to not do the exact same thing in this game they did in their last several games not rational?
One definition of insanity, is doing the the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.
If anything, it is not rational to expect anything EXCEPT what I predicted.
Just to be clear: in the past SOE has come out and explictedly stated that game affecting items would not appear in their cash shop (or equivalent) and that RMT would not make it into one or more of their games. Only to see that they later completely went back on these statements and did the EXACT thing they said they wouldn't.
So, SOE says cosmetic items only in the cash shop? At best, they mean what they say NOW, as in this day and at release time. Which does not mean anything 3 or 6 months down the road when the revenues start to fall. At worst, be as paranoid as you want.
Cash shop in a p2p game is vastly overpriceing theyr game, i can understand why they want to do this becouse they will get alot of extra cash out of it not just a little extra.
Im very much against cash shop in p2p, for me buying the box and paying sub for 3-5 months should include new content for free. Other companys manage this and stil will in the future but we might see fewer and fewer of em.
But this is for every person to deside for them self, its theyr money and noone can tell em how to spend it.
There is no way any of you can influence me on how i spend my money thats for sure.
They are obviously going to sell costume parts like they did in CO, people can relax. Nothing game breaking wll be in the item mall.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
While in the beta, I noticed there was a Marketplace tab in options, I'm lead to believe that there is going to be some sort of cash shop system.
Does anyone have extra info on what is going to be sold in game, or do I have this totally mistaken?
No you are not mistaken, and unfortunetly I have no more information than you do. I noticed a huge trend spike in cash shops when WoW started them (didn't want to refrence wow since I will never play it again, but my wife still raids and I saw the cash shop implemented for wow, it has started to spread like wild fire).
Seriously, you guys need to start being a little bit more understanding and forgiving of these developers/publishers when they try to figure out a workable payment system.
MMO's are extremely difficult and costly to make, especially a AAA title like DCUO. The genre is practically overflowing with competitors and it's really tough for a game to be successful.
Gaming is one of the cheapest and most entertaining ways to have fun. The developers have to work their asses off to make these games, often working ridiculous hours.
If the devs/publishers can't make money, they are going to be far less likely to fund future projects and to take risks. That is bad, bad, bad news for a genre that is already packed with WoW clones.
Does the presence of a cash shop with some random items really screw your experience? Does spending a few extra bucks a month really bother you that much?
Cash shop in a ptp game.....wont even look at it. Just like I wouldnt buy CO or STO and canceled my eq account as soon as the cash shop was added.
If you want a cash shop then be FTP if you go PTP i want all the damn content my sub is paying for development.
Why the hell should I pay a dev to develop items with a monthly sub only to then go buy them AGAIN in the cash shop.
One or the other and the players are the ones that need to draw the line and stick with there beliefs.
I can agree with you to some extent, but unfortunetly you are calling for every gamer to stop playing games with subs + cash shops (even wow does this now!?! like they dont make enough money). As sad as it is I can't forsee a big enough decline from sub+shop game subs to accomplish this task. What we could do to public demostrate how much gamers hate sub+shop games is a big question, and I look forward to the day someone comes up with a practical idea of how to stop ripping players off.
Does the presence of a cash shop with some random items really screw your experience? Does spending a few extra bucks a month really bother you that much?
On top of a $50-60 box AND a $15 sub fee and likely paid expansions... YES that is too much.
And sooner or later SOE will put in items that do "screw with your experience" in the cash shop because history has shown they have in all their other games.
They will take all the money they can get away with. $15/mo should be enough for the extra content, i.e. items and costumes that they make and put in, outside of an expansion.
When players stop tolerating this stuff, companies will stop trying to get away with it, at their expense.
DCOU was designed from the start to have a cash shop. The game was originally going to be F2P, but with the recovery of the PS3 in the market, the gaming divsion regained control (from SOE), and was able to push this back towards P2P. I really dont know that they will be selling, as there are two different groups looking to control this game.
Does the presence of a cash shop with some random items really screw your experience? Does spending a few extra bucks a month really bother you that much?
On top of a $50-60 box AND a $15 sub fee and likely paid expansions... YES that is too much.
And sooner or later SOE will put in items that do "screw with your experience" in the cash shop because history has shown they have in all their other games.
They will take all the money they can get away with. $15/mo should be enough for the extra content, i.e. items and constomes that they make and put in, outside of an expansion.
The problem I see with all games that use this method is principle. They are price gouging and they know it. The advent of the cash shop inside of the p2p system has only forced us to more for the same content increases. You can take all the hard to find or random world drop items in wow before and after the cash shop. There use to be a ton of pets, mounts, cool trinket, etc. in each content patch. Now there is a very small amount and alot that goes to there cash shop instead. The extra money they get doesn't increase there development rate, because cash shop proffits dont go to highering new employees. I could be wrong but from what I have seen with shop + sub games it is true.
Does the presence of a cash shop with some random items really screw your experience? Does spending a few extra bucks a month really bother you that much?
On top of a $50-60 box AND a $15 sub fee and likely paid expansions... YES that is too much.
And sooner or later SOE will put in items that do "screw with your experience" in the cash shop because history has shown they have in all their other games.
They will take all the money they can get away with. $15/mo should be enough for the extra content, i.e. items and costumes that they make and put in, outside of an expansion.
When players stop tolerating this stuff, companies will stop trying to get away with it, at their expense.
Although I understand your argument, I simply don't agree.
Yes, they are obviously a business and yes, they are trying to make as much money as possible. But in this case, I honestly believe they are justified in trying to make a little more money.
They deserve it. The developers deserve it.
How much is your enjoyment worth per hour?
Personally, when I get into an MMO, I'm playing at least 10-20+ hours a week. A $50 box + $15/month + extras....that's nothing. Cheap. Horribly cheap entertainment.
The reason why we're seeing all these games adding cash shops is because they are trying to make a decent profit off their hard work. By the way, that profit is usually immediately invested in making another game or trying to make the current games better.
I know that we're used to getting things for free or cheap on the internet, but there are some things that are worth the money. Gaming is one of them.
Seriously, you guys need to start being a little bit more understanding and forgiving of these developers/publishers when they try to figure out a workable payment system.
MMO's are extremely difficult and costly to make, especially a AAA title like DCUO. The genre is practically overflowing with competitors and it's really tough for a game to be successful.
Gaming is one of the cheapest and most entertaining ways to have fun. The developers have to work their asses off to make these games, often working ridiculous hours.
If the devs/publishers can't make money, they are going to be far less likely to fund future projects and to take risks. That is bad, bad, bad news for a genre that is already packed with WoW clones.
Does the presence of a cash shop with some random items really screw your experience? Does spending a few extra bucks a month really bother you that much?
Maybe people will be more forgiving when these companies stop wasting development time working on cash shop systems and work on their damn games so they are ready for release. Maybe if they spent more time focused on making their game fun and functional things wouldn't be such a massive risk.
Every man hour spent on creating, coding, decision making, evaluating, modeling, etc on things that go into the cash shop is a man hour that is lost towards development of actual gameplay. Think about the things that didn't make it into DCU even with the games delay. Light and other power sets, secret identity system, more missions, more costume options, etc.
MMOs have a massive profit margin, so no one should shed one tear or dig deep in their pockets to give charity to mmo developers. Make a great game and players will beat down the door to give them money. Cut corners and nickle dime players to death and players will walk away.
A lot of industries work their asses off and invest piles of money. MMO developers are no different and deserve no special favors. I just can't understand actually advocating less content for more money as if that will somehow benefit players or that they are somehow at fault for not taking it easy on this type of practice.
Comments
Well CO DID run on a shopNsub for quite a while and even when you sub TODAY there are still options to use the shop. Honestly I see DCUO following this same path. We will see though.
I will agree that the word "entitlement" has infected many of my conversations as of late and I too am aware of it's origins in it's current popularity. That said the car analogy is a little off They would be more likely to charge you extra for leather seats and maybe nicer rims, which is more directly analogous to what SOE is doing here with cosmetics.
You are incorrect. The celestial steed requires the appropriate riding skill which will cost upwards of 5,000 gold. Without the proper riding skill the celestial mount doesn't do anything.
Mounts in wow cost between 1 and 100 gold which is pocket change to max level characters and absolutely not worth spending $25 dollars to avoid.
Blizzards cash shop (and it is a cash shop) is just as much of a F-U to players as any other subscription based game that puts in a cash shop. They just have not crossed the game altering line yet with their offerings.
I agree with your point.
If it's only cosmetic, I am okay with it. If it is something more related to competitiveness, it's another issue. If people want to pay extra for sparkle-ponies, I don't care, as long as I can get my own mount through the game with my sub.
totally agree dude.
the biggest difference between blizzards cash shop and most others, is that blizzards is all vanity items, they provide no ACCTUAL benefit. I consider this kind of shop completely fine.
I do not understand all this ranting and all about a cash shop. If there are no powers being offered what is the big deal? The Iconic Armor sets appear so far to be the best gear to have in game and you can earn it without paying real money for it. I can see them adding in costume pieces in the cash shop so that they are unlocked at the beginning but I don't see any thing like "hey pay X dollars and get boots of super super speed".
"You think this "A" stands for France?" Captain America
Yep it's both. Anyway SMED can get into your pocket he will.
sooner or later mmorpg game going to be pay sub + cash shop(with epic gear)
they just need 1 company to start it and everyone going to do it
All I have to say is this: Just wait.
SOE has claimed before they were only going to do "this and that" with their cash shop or RMT and turn around a bit later and do the very thing they said they wouldn't.
NoStation Cash in EQ2? Remember?
No game altering items in the SWG lottery version of cash shop (TCG)?
And more?
My prediction (based on SOE's past behavior) is that the very first incarnation of the cash shop will not be offensive, to people that don't like cash shops, so it doesn't turn any of their potential launch customers off, and thus lose the release box price. Later on, when the subs fall, and they do in almost all SOE games after launch, and after the boxes get cheaper, they will turn around and load up the cash shop to raise revenue. Intstant travel items, character slots, buff items, they will likely be in there.
Why?
Because if the items aren't useful and desirable, people won't buy them and no increased revenue. It is just too tempting for Smed to not mess with.
Not at all...but I also have opinions which is one thing I believe everyone is entitled to express.
.. Funny how you basically define what you believe was the intent of my words and come to the conclusion that I am trying to insult people who believe otherwise. I guarantee you that I lack the superiority complex you apparently think I possess. When buying games, It is my preference to purchase an "all inclusive" package too....but if they come up with content later i'm not going to cry foul. I also don't understand how someone else buying a flying dragon mount in the store makes the one you earned worthless (as far as virtual goods go). If I climbed a mountain (not that my fat arse would make it without a heart attack) got to the top and got a free shirt at the gift shop stating "I climbed that mountain". Is it somehow meaningless now because my neighbor bought the same shirt off the internet. I know I climbed the mountain...does it matter what anyone else thinks? "Entitlement" wasn't a word that spilled over from the conservative political view that you've attached to me...it is merely the word that best fit. Sorry if my words hurt anyone..guess I'll just throw sticks and stones next time.
I'm not going to argue with you, but clearly you're at the point where even when the company does something you agree with (i.e. a cash shop that only sells inoffensive things) you treat it as a conspiracy to put you off guard. When you become that paranoid about a company's behavior it only suggests (a) you definitely shouldn't buy their product because even when you're happy about it, you'll be convinced the big switch is always around the corner, and (b) you are beyond rational debate on the subject.
Every game's pricing model will eventually be called into question. No game lasts forever. But for now and for the foreseeable I'm content to take Sony at their word. As I said elsewhere, any gaming company with any track record at all has a trail of dissatisfied former customers a mile wide. I acknowledge your skepticism. If you really can't overcome it then don't buy from Sony. But at the same time, you've got to realize you'll miss a lot of good games that way and your only options will be the out-of-nowhere companies that often fail to even get their games to market. Just speaking personally, I'd never reduce my range of options that way.
It'll be fun while it lasts and I believe it has the potential to last a long time. I'll worry about what happens to DCUO years from now if I'm still playing years from now. And if I am, I'll have got the value from my investment, without question.
This isn't limited to SOE. Turbine claimed there were no plans for LOTRO to go to the Fremium Model. Which based on the time of the statement might or might not be true, but I would say is highly suspect for being false. Cryptic while not saying they would not go f2p did move from one model to the next. Ultimately regardless of the way it is communicated here, what we may be seing is a trend in the industry to debut with a sub and lite cash shop ( I know LOTRO did not have one)to later go to a freemium. There are just too many MMOS that have gone bust recently. I imagine it is hard for them to get backing for these projects once they release based on the last 2 years. It's been really ugly. I don't know... I don't see the the numbers, but what I do see is a lot of MMOS stuggling with maintaining subs.
Since when is calling a company on their past behavior and, expecting the exact same people (management and devs) to not do the exact same thing in this game they did in their last several games not rational?
One definition of insanity, is doing the the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.
If anything, it is not rational to expect anything EXCEPT what I predicted.
Just to be clear: in the past SOE has come out and explictedly stated that game affecting items would not appear in their cash shop (or equivalent) and that RMT would not make it into one or more of their games. Only to see that they later completely went back on these statements and did the EXACT thing they said they wouldn't.
So, SOE says cosmetic items only in the cash shop? At best, they mean what they say NOW, as in this day and at release time. Which does not mean anything 3 or 6 months down the road when the revenues start to fall. At worst, be as paranoid as you want.
Fool me once......
Cash shop in a ptp game.....wont even look at it. Just like I wouldnt buy CO or STO and canceled my eq account as soon as the cash shop was added.
If you want a cash shop then be FTP if you go PTP i want all the damn content my sub is paying for development.
Why the hell should I pay a dev to develop items with a monthly sub only to then go buy them AGAIN in the cash shop.
One or the other and the players are the ones that need to draw the line and stick with there beliefs.
Cash shop in a p2p game is vastly overpriceing theyr game, i can understand why they want to do this becouse they will get alot of extra cash out of it not just a little extra.
Im very much against cash shop in p2p, for me buying the box and paying sub for 3-5 months should include new content for free. Other companys manage this and stil will in the future but we might see fewer and fewer of em.
But this is for every person to deside for them self, its theyr money and noone can tell em how to spend it.
There is no way any of you can influence me on how i spend my money thats for sure.
They are obviously going to sell costume parts like they did in CO, people can relax. Nothing game breaking wll be in the item mall.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
No you are not mistaken, and unfortunetly I have no more information than you do. I noticed a huge trend spike in cash shops when WoW started them (didn't want to refrence wow since I will never play it again, but my wife still raids and I saw the cash shop implemented for wow, it has started to spread like wild fire).
Seriously, you guys need to start being a little bit more understanding and forgiving of these developers/publishers when they try to figure out a workable payment system.
MMO's are extremely difficult and costly to make, especially a AAA title like DCUO. The genre is practically overflowing with competitors and it's really tough for a game to be successful.
Gaming is one of the cheapest and most entertaining ways to have fun. The developers have to work their asses off to make these games, often working ridiculous hours.
If the devs/publishers can't make money, they are going to be far less likely to fund future projects and to take risks. That is bad, bad, bad news for a genre that is already packed with WoW clones.
Does the presence of a cash shop with some random items really screw your experience? Does spending a few extra bucks a month really bother you that much?
I can agree with you to some extent, but unfortunetly you are calling for every gamer to stop playing games with subs + cash shops (even wow does this now!?! like they dont make enough money). As sad as it is I can't forsee a big enough decline from sub+shop game subs to accomplish this task. What we could do to public demostrate how much gamers hate sub+shop games is a big question, and I look forward to the day someone comes up with a practical idea of how to stop ripping players off.
On top of a $50-60 box AND a $15 sub fee and likely paid expansions... YES that is too much.
And sooner or later SOE will put in items that do "screw with your experience" in the cash shop because history has shown they have in all their other games.
They will take all the money they can get away with. $15/mo should be enough for the extra content, i.e. items and costumes that they make and put in, outside of an expansion.
When players stop tolerating this stuff, companies will stop trying to get away with it, at their expense.
DCOU was designed from the start to have a cash shop. The game was originally going to be F2P, but with the recovery of the PS3 in the market, the gaming divsion regained control (from SOE), and was able to push this back towards P2P. I really dont know that they will be selling, as there are two different groups looking to control this game.
The problem I see with all games that use this method is principle. They are price gouging and they know it. The advent of the cash shop inside of the p2p system has only forced us to more for the same content increases. You can take all the hard to find or random world drop items in wow before and after the cash shop. There use to be a ton of pets, mounts, cool trinket, etc. in each content patch. Now there is a very small amount and alot that goes to there cash shop instead. The extra money they get doesn't increase there development rate, because cash shop proffits dont go to highering new employees. I could be wrong but from what I have seen with shop + sub games it is true.
Although I understand your argument, I simply don't agree.
Yes, they are obviously a business and yes, they are trying to make as much money as possible. But in this case, I honestly believe they are justified in trying to make a little more money.
They deserve it. The developers deserve it.
How much is your enjoyment worth per hour?
Personally, when I get into an MMO, I'm playing at least 10-20+ hours a week. A $50 box + $15/month + extras....that's nothing. Cheap. Horribly cheap entertainment.
The reason why we're seeing all these games adding cash shops is because they are trying to make a decent profit off their hard work. By the way, that profit is usually immediately invested in making another game or trying to make the current games better.
I know that we're used to getting things for free or cheap on the internet, but there are some things that are worth the money. Gaming is one of them.
Maybe people will be more forgiving when these companies stop wasting development time working on cash shop systems and work on their damn games so they are ready for release. Maybe if they spent more time focused on making their game fun and functional things wouldn't be such a massive risk.
Every man hour spent on creating, coding, decision making, evaluating, modeling, etc on things that go into the cash shop is a man hour that is lost towards development of actual gameplay. Think about the things that didn't make it into DCU even with the games delay. Light and other power sets, secret identity system, more missions, more costume options, etc.
MMOs have a massive profit margin, so no one should shed one tear or dig deep in their pockets to give charity to mmo developers. Make a great game and players will beat down the door to give them money. Cut corners and nickle dime players to death and players will walk away.
A lot of industries work their asses off and invest piles of money. MMO developers are no different and deserve no special favors. I just can't understand actually advocating less content for more money as if that will somehow benefit players or that they are somehow at fault for not taking it easy on this type of practice.