I agree. The religious fervour of some of this game's madder supporters seems to me to prophesise a horrible fall is coming. Let's hope not.
People are excited because their favourite company is making a new game? OOh, noes. What I don't understand is people who just want to bash this game. I hate double standards. I've read so many people saying - 'you can't know that this game is gonna be sweet because you have never played it. However, I do know that it will suck even though I never played it.'
So why are people even bothering to troll a game? If you don't think this game will be for you, please hit the homepage and pick another game. No need to come and troll. Bioware are more successful than any MMO developer (except maybe Blizzard). I mean look at the companies making MMOs. They are not known outside the MMO world. Now there was one company which was well known and it decided to make an MMO. Look how poor Blizzard are now.
I just think there should be a better reason than "Its Bioware". Something more like - "they've made good games in the past" not "Its Bioware" because that's amazing BS. Anyway, its no secret that they've only made single player games and SWTOR is exactly that times 5 plus more than one player minus walls of text. And you could argue that other games like CO, AoC and WAR have something similar but then I'd have to ask you where those games are right now in their ratings amongst MMO gamers. The only thing that can save SWTOR is if the entire game plays like the beginning of AoC, me thinks that would kickass but I doubt it will play like that.
I agree. The religious fervour of some of this game's madder supporters seems to me to prophesise a horrible fall is coming. Let's hope not.
People are excited because their favourite company is making a new game? OOh, noes. What I don't understand is people who just want to bash this game. I hate double standards. I've read so many people saying - 'you can't know that this game is gonna be sweet because you have never played it. However, I do know that it will suck even though I never played it.'
So why are people even bothering to troll a game? If you don't think this game will be for you, please hit the homepage and pick another game. No need to come and troll. Bioware are more successful than any MMO developer (except maybe Blizzard). I mean look at the companies making MMOs. They are not known outside the MMO world. Now there was one company which was well known and it decided to make an MMO. Look how poor Blizzard are now.
I just think there should be a better reason than "Its Bioware". Something more like - "they've made good games in the past" not "Its Bioware" because that's amazing BS. Anyway, its no secret that they've only made single player games and SWTOR is exactly that times 5 plus more than one player minus walls of text. And you could argue that other games like CO, AoC and WAR have something similar but then I'd have to ask you where those games are right now in their ratings amongst MMO gamers. The only thing that can save SWTOR is if the entire game plays like the beginning of AoC, me thinks that would kickass but I doubt it will play like that.
In my personal view when people say it's Bioware they mean because they have made so many great games in the past that we trust their judgement. Just like people trust the judgement of say arena net (yeah i did that because it was to prove a point).
SWTOR is basically Kotor 3-11 (over 50 novels worth of VO was what they put it at) with other people. As for the beginning of AoC, what i saw of AoC was basically what i'm seeing here throughout. Not sure on the night thing but i don't think it needs night only. VO are throughout hence the term fully voiced audio. the fighting will be different granted but i think it will be just as action packed.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
SWTOR seems like it's going to be an SRPG Networked rather than a true MMORPG.
Yes but what if it is hella fun?
Would you rather play a bomber networked srpg or a poorly constructed 'true' mmorpg?
To me, the fact that it may contain elements outside of what a 'true' mmo has is a plus.
And what defines a true mmo? Should they include all the features WoW has? or should they make sure they have all the same stuff that EQ had? Or should it contain all of eve's features?
It just strikes me as the 'we're tired of WoW but your mmo better be just like it' argument (insert whatever game you wish in place of WoW).
For me, people are bashing this game due to semantics rather than actual reasons that this game may not be entertaining.
What if this game is so entertaining, it redefines what an mmo is?
In an 2 hour presentation of SWOTOR at a game show the last line of the product director was...
Yes we will have PVP, yes we will have guild, yes we will have economy, yes we will have community, yes we will have housing .....
the reason he had to state that was because in an 2 hour presentation NONE of this was shown to the press - NONE.
We saw prerendered trailers - Voiceovered quest talk with group interaction and a combat system with cover and fire that is neither doable in mass scale PVP nor did we see any PVP at all.
Do you start to get the picture. BW can do great RPG many ppl just fear that they got carried away and forgot the - or never realised - the main part of MMORPG. MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER. In the current version SWOTOR gameplay feels like a COOP based action adventure were you and your 5 buddys are on a rampage in an starwars environment.
I so hope they just havent shown us all the good stuff yet - but yes i share the opinion that BW is maybe unable to make MMOs.
You don't sell a car by showcasing the ashtray and steering wheel.
You don't sell a car by showcasing the ashtray and steering wheel.
... but it's hard to sell a car if people aren't sure you remembered to put the engine in it. Things like crafting, grouping mechanisms, PvP and all these things aren't unimportant things like an ashtray...
If you're planning on playing an MMO long term, the gameplay systems are THE most important part. It's like showcasing a car and forgetting to show that it has tires, an engine, a transmission or steering wheel. Oh, but the body paint job is FANTASTIC.
SWTOR seems like it's going to be an SRPG Networked rather than a true MMORPG.
Yes but what if it is hella fun?
Would you rather play a bomber networked srpg or a poorly constructed 'true' mmorpg?
To me, the fact that it may contain elements outside of what a 'true' mmo has is a plus.
And what defines a true mmo? Should they include all the features WoW has? or should they make sure they have all the same stuff that EQ had? Or should it contain all of eve's features?
It just strikes me as the 'we're tired of WoW but your mmo better be just like it' argument (insert whatever game you wish in place of WoW).
For me, people are bashing this game due to semantics rather than actual reasons that this game may not be entertaining.
What if this game is so entertaining, it redefines what an mmo is?
Oh, I am not one of those who say it has to redfine what an MMO is. There are plenty of of very different MMOs out there right now - from Eve to WoW to Darkfall. What I am saying is that SWTOR must be good. And, right now, I have serious concerns about some aspects of this game. But if it works, great!
You don't sell a car by showcasing the ashtray and steering wheel.
... but it's hard to sell a car if people aren't sure you remembered to put the engine in it. Things like crafting, grouping mechanisms, PvP and all these things aren't unimportant things like an ashtray...
If you're planning on playing an MMO long term, the gameplay systems are THE most important part. It's like showcasing a car and forgetting to show that it has tires, an engine, a transmission or steering wheel. Oh, but the body paint job is FANTASTIC.
I am a mmo veteran that has been playing in the mmo genre for many years now and I just got an xbox 360 and started Mass Effect for the 1st time and if they can successfully bring in the immersion that they did with Mass Effect it will be a great game.I think the main concerns most mmo players have with it is how well they do with grps.Most people fear it will just be a single player game thru-out with hardly no grp emphasis,but I think they will come thru on this part in the end.I do expect it to be solo friendly until endgame and then I bet it will be exactly like wow with raiding and pvp battlegrps although pvp battles sound smaller than wow as of right now imo.
Actually, I've seen gameplay footage, but I was mostly responding to that one person dismissing the other person's concerns as being equivalent to worrying about the ashtray in a car.
The game systems are THE important part of MMOs, in my opinion. Well, that and the other people playing it with you.
Sorry if I gave anybody the impression I was claiming SWTOR was a car without an engine, I was just explaining why people having gameplay and mechanics worries when they haven't seen what they're looking for isn't exactly crazy.
Actually, I've seen gameplay footage, but I was mostly responding to that one person dismissing the other person's concerns as being equivalent to worrying about the ashtray in a car.
The game systems are THE important part of MMOs, in my opinion. Well, that and the other people playing it with you.
Sorry if I gave anybody the impression I was claiming SWTOR was a car without an engine, I was just explaining why people having gameplay and mechanics worries when they haven't seen what they're looking for isn't exactly crazy.
It's cool, i can understand when you don't see something that it will worry you. I always try and deal out gameplay footage as much as i can. BW marketing strategy with showing things leads to alot of people curious/worried. They tend to not show much other then a few snippets, and in this case they tend to show only what they feel is new to the genre. People still need to see if it will feel like an MMO. So i try and show things that are the mundane part like walking around, killing monsters. complete normal quests, grouping that sorta thing.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I agree. The religious fervour of some of this game's madder supporters seems to me to prophesise a horrible fall is coming. Let's hope not.
People are excited because their favourite company is making a new game? OOh, noes. What I don't understand is people who just want to bash this game. I hate double standards. I've read so many people saying - 'you can't know that this game is gonna be sweet because you have never played it. However, I do know that it will suck even though I never played it.'
So why are people even bothering to troll a game? If you don't think this game will be for you, please hit the homepage and pick another game. No need to come and troll. Bioware are more successful than any MMO developer (except maybe Blizzard). I mean look at the companies making MMOs. They are not known outside the MMO world. Now there was one company which was well known and it decided to make an MMO. Look how poor Blizzard are now.
I just think there should be a better reason than "Its Bioware". Something more like - "they've made good games in the past" not "Its Bioware" because that's amazing BS. Anyway, its no secret that they've only made single player games and SWTOR is exactly that times 5 plus more than one player minus walls of text. And you could argue that other games like CO, AoC and WAR have something similar but then I'd have to ask you where those games are right now in their ratings amongst MMO gamers. The only thing that can save SWTOR is if the entire game plays like the beginning of AoC, me thinks that would kickass but I doubt it will play like that.
In my personal view when people say it's Bioware they mean because they have made so many great games in the past that we trust their judgement. Just like people trust the judgement of say arena net (yeah i did that because it was to prove a point).
SWTOR is basically Kotor 3-11 (over 50 novels worth of VO was what they put it at) with other people. As for the beginning of AoC, what i saw of AoC was basically what i'm seeing here throughout. Not sure on the night thing but i don't think it needs night only. VO are throughout hence the term fully voiced audio. the fighting will be different granted but i think it will be just as action packed.
Lol, trust me when I say I cringe anytime someone says "Its Anet". It's just extremely funny to me especially when there's a 50% possibility they could F*** up somewhere.
I agree. The religious fervour of some of this game's madder supporters seems to me to prophesise a horrible fall is coming. Let's hope not.
People are excited because their favourite company is making a new game? OOh, noes. What I don't understand is people who just want to bash this game. I hate double standards. I've read so many people saying - 'you can't know that this game is gonna be sweet because you have never played it. However, I do know that it will suck even though I never played it.'
So why are people even bothering to troll a game? If you don't think this game will be for you, please hit the homepage and pick another game. No need to come and troll. Bioware are more successful than any MMO developer (except maybe Blizzard). I mean look at the companies making MMOs. They are not known outside the MMO world. Now there was one company which was well known and it decided to make an MMO. Look how poor Blizzard are now.
I just think there should be a better reason than "Its Bioware". Something more like - "they've made good games in the past" not "Its Bioware" because that's amazing BS. Anyway, its no secret that they've only made single player games and SWTOR is exactly that times 5 plus more than one player minus walls of text. And you could argue that other games like CO, AoC and WAR have something similar but then I'd have to ask you where those games are right now in their ratings amongst MMO gamers. The only thing that can save SWTOR is if the entire game plays like the beginning of AoC, me thinks that would kickass but I doubt it will play like that.
In my personal view when people say it's Bioware they mean because they have made so many great games in the past that we trust their judgement. Just like people trust the judgement of say arena net (yeah i did that because it was to prove a point).
SWTOR is basically Kotor 3-11 (over 50 novels worth of VO was what they put it at) with other people. As for the beginning of AoC, what i saw of AoC was basically what i'm seeing here throughout. Not sure on the night thing but i don't think it needs night only. VO are throughout hence the term fully voiced audio. the fighting will be different granted but i think it will be just as action packed.
Lol, trust me when I say I cringe anytime someone says "Its Anet". It's just extremely funny to me especially when there's a 50% possibility they could F*** up somewhere.
I agree. any company can screw up. I'm just hoping BW doesn't. So far it doesn't look like they have to me. my interest in this game is going by purely what i've seen, reviews i've heard, the short short demo i got, and what the devs are saying. really only thing i can go on.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I agree. The religious fervour of some of this game's madder supporters seems to me to prophesise a horrible fall is coming. Let's hope not.
People are excited because their favourite company is making a new game? OOh, noes. What I don't understand is people who just want to bash this game. I hate double standards. I've read so many people saying - 'you can't know that this game is gonna be sweet because you have never played it. However, I do know that it will suck even though I never played it.'
So why are people even bothering to troll a game? If you don't think this game will be for you, please hit the homepage and pick another game. No need to come and troll. Bioware are more successful than any MMO developer (except maybe Blizzard). I mean look at the companies making MMOs. They are not known outside the MMO world. Now there was one company which was well known and it decided to make an MMO. Look how poor Blizzard are now.
I just think there should be a better reason than "Its Bioware". Something more like - "they've made good games in the past" not "Its Bioware" because that's amazing BS. Anyway, its no secret that they've only made single player games and SWTOR is exactly that times 5 plus more than one player minus walls of text. And you could argue that other games like CO, AoC and WAR have something similar but then I'd have to ask you where those games are right now in their ratings amongst MMO gamers. The only thing that can save SWTOR is if the entire game plays like the beginning of AoC, me thinks that would kickass but I doubt it will play like that.
In my personal view when people say it's Bioware they mean because they have made so many great games in the past that we trust their judgement. Just like people trust the judgement of say arena net (yeah i did that because it was to prove a point).
SWTOR is basically Kotor 3-11 (over 50 novels worth of VO was what they put it at) with other people. As for the beginning of AoC, what i saw of AoC was basically what i'm seeing here throughout. Not sure on the night thing but i don't think it needs night only. VO are throughout hence the term fully voiced audio. the fighting will be different granted but i think it will be just as action packed.
Lol, trust me when I say I cringe anytime someone says "Its Anet". It's just extremely funny to me especially when there's a 50% possibility they could F*** up somewhere.
I agree. any company can screw up. I'm just hoping BW doesn't. So far it doesn't look like they have to me. my interest in this game is going by purely what i've seen, reviews i've heard, the short short demo i got, and what the devs are saying. really only thing i can go on.
Ultimately, it all comes down to this: can the KOTOR/ME dynamic work as an online multiplayer game? It will be interesting to see the answer.
TOR will be a good game. It's impossible for Bioware to make a bad game. Thing is making a good game doesn't mean you will have high box sales and sub numbers. The mmo community is a fickle bunch, so Im looking forward to seeing how the community accepts their game.
I agree. The religious fervour of some of this game's madder supporters seems to me to prophesise a horrible fall is coming. Let's hope not.
People are excited because their favourite company is making a new game? OOh, noes. What I don't understand is people who just want to bash this game. I hate double standards. I've read so many people saying - 'you can't know that this game is gonna be sweet because you have never played it. However, I do know that it will suck even though I never played it.'
So why are people even bothering to troll a game? If you don't think this game will be for you, please hit the homepage and pick another game. No need to come and troll. Bioware are more successful than any MMO developer (except maybe Blizzard). I mean look at the companies making MMOs. They are not known outside the MMO world. Now there was one company which was well known and it decided to make an MMO. Look how poor Blizzard are now.
I just think there should be a better reason than "Its Bioware". Something more like - "they've made good games in the past" not "Its Bioware" because that's amazing BS. Anyway, its no secret that they've only made single player games and SWTOR is exactly that times 5 plus more than one player minus walls of text. And you could argue that other games like CO, AoC and WAR have something similar but then I'd have to ask you where those games are right now in their ratings amongst MMO gamers. The only thing that can save SWTOR is if the entire game plays like the beginning of AoC, me thinks that would kickass but I doubt it will play like that.
In my personal view when people say it's Bioware they mean because they have made so many great games in the past that we trust their judgement. Just like people trust the judgement of say arena net (yeah i did that because it was to prove a point).
SWTOR is basically Kotor 3-11 (over 50 novels worth of VO was what they put it at) with other people. As for the beginning of AoC, what i saw of AoC was basically what i'm seeing here throughout. Not sure on the night thing but i don't think it needs night only. VO are throughout hence the term fully voiced audio. the fighting will be different granted but i think it will be just as action packed.
Lol, trust me when I say I cringe anytime someone says "Its Anet". It's just extremely funny to me especially when there's a 50% possibility they could F*** up somewhere.
I agree. any company can screw up. I'm just hoping BW doesn't. So far it doesn't look like they have to me. my interest in this game is going by purely what i've seen, reviews i've heard, the short short demo i got, and what the devs are saying. really only thing i can go on.
Ultimately, it all comes down to this: can the KOTOR/ME dynamic work as an online multiplayer game? It will be interesting to see the answer.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. This is the question indeed. I'm hoping yes, but the true answer will come out when they release the game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
I can't tell you how much of an endgame there is, simply because i can't find much info on it.
I have this article though
BioWare devs talk future plans and SW:TOR.
MMORPG recently got the chance to interview interview Bioware CEO Ray Muzyka and Bioware VP Greg Zeschuk about the success of Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins and future plans for the games. The two also took the time to field questions about their upcoming MMORPG, Star Wars: The Old Republic. With newer MMOGs having to rely more and more on endgame content, BioWare is trying out a few new ideas that Muzyka refers to as "innovative," while also keeping standard MMOG features that players expect.
We're trying to do some innovative different things, while also doing some things that are standard expectations for MMO players. We look at the best features for combat, exploration, progression and try to emulate and build on those as well as innovate on those features. We're innovating story, we're also innovating some things around end game with re-playability trying to encourage players to continue to play, all those things.
I'd imagine once the story is done (meaning this part, expansions can always extend it). You'll mostly be doing raiding, PvP, crafting, talking to friends, running dungeons, running through other peoples stories, that sorta thing. There is also the world arcs you can do.
How much of these you can do, i don't know but there is at least some things you can do even if everything in that list is really small, which i don't think they will be.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
SWTOR seems like it's going to be an SRPG Networked rather than a true MMORPG.
Yes but what if it is hella fun?
Would you rather play a bomber networked srpg or a poorly constructed 'true' mmorpg?
To me, the fact that it may contain elements outside of what a 'true' mmo has is a plus.
And what defines a true mmo? Should they include all the features WoW has? or should they make sure they have all the same stuff that EQ had? Or should it contain all of eve's features?
It just strikes me as the 'we're tired of WoW but your mmo better be just like it' argument (insert whatever game you wish in place of WoW).
For me, people are bashing this game due to semantics rather than actual reasons that this game may not be entertaining.
What if this game is so entertaining, it redefines what an mmo is?
General Question do you play a MMO for a timespan of like 3 month or would you like to play it a year or 2 maybe even three?
Most people playing MMO would answer with 1 year plus - there once was a survey on mmorpg.com but i cant find it atm.
So what are the major difference between a SPRPG and a MMORPG?
1. Price and content
I buy a single player player game by a fixed price and i expect to be able to play it through. In contrast i pay a MMO on a monthly based fee where i expect the game to change over time and hope it improves over time. I expect the additon of content over time. Also i dont expect to be able to play thorugh an MMORPG. Because normally there should be no end.
2. Content and playtime
Even tho i pay for additonal content in a mmorpg i am aware that the developers will not be able to generate content in the same time as i play through it. Meaning in a MMORPG i expect there is something todo even tho i played through all the quests. Meaning the game system as its core must be entertaining even without quests. Otherwise you would play an mmo only after a content update and then dont play it for the next 3-4 month. In a single player game i am aware that the content is limited and after i am done with it i have played it through and move on to the next game.
A MMO needs to be appealing to many different players and playstyles it also needs to provide entertainment whenever you start it up. Thats why the System of an MMO is much more sophisticated. The ability to make a good SPRPG doesn not implify the ability to make a good mmo. Because all storytelling of a SPRPG is just a small part in an MMO.
SWTOR seems like it's going to be an SRPG Networked rather than a true MMORPG.
Yes but what if it is hella fun?
Would you rather play a bomber networked srpg or a poorly constructed 'true' mmorpg?
To me, the fact that it may contain elements outside of what a 'true' mmo has is a plus.
And what defines a true mmo? Should they include all the features WoW has? or should they make sure they have all the same stuff that EQ had? Or should it contain all of eve's features?
It just strikes me as the 'we're tired of WoW but your mmo better be just like it' argument (insert whatever game you wish in place of WoW).
For me, people are bashing this game due to semantics rather than actual reasons that this game may not be entertaining.
What if this game is so entertaining, it redefines what an mmo is?
General Question do you play a MMO for a timespan of like 3 month or would you like to play it a year or 2 maybe even three?
Most people playing MMO would answer with 1 year plus - there once was a survey on mmorpg.com but i cant find it atm.
So what are the major difference between a SPRPG and a MMORPG?
1. Price and content
I buy a single player player game by a fixed price and i expect to be able to play it through. In contrast i pay a MMO on a monthly based fee where i expect the game to change over time and hope it improves over time. I expect the additon of content over time. Also i dont expect to be able to play thorugh an MMORPG. Because normally there should be no end.
2. Content and playtime
Even tho i pay for additonal content in a mmorpg i am aware that the developers will not be able to generate content in the same time as i play through it. Meaning in a MMORPG i expect there is something todo even tho i played through all the quests. Meaning the game system as its core must be entertaining even without quests. Otherwise you would play an mmo only after a content update and then dont play it for the next 3-4 month. In a single player game i am aware that the content is limited and after i am done with it i have played it through and move on to the next game.
A MMO needs to be appealing to many different players and playstyles it also needs to provide entertainment whenever you start it up. Thats why the System of an MMO is much more sophisticated. The ability to make a good SPRPG doesn not implify the ability to make a good mmo. Because all storytelling of a SPRPG is just a small part in an MMO.
Seems like Biowrare has already fullfilled that requirements then. They have a story that ends, then you can go crafting, do other quests, talk to players, go exploring, do raids, do PvP, all that jazz.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
What in the world is it that people see to make them make statements suggesting because this is the first mmorpg they made they can't pull it off??
People on the Internet, which by implication includes me, have a tendency to enjoy being negative. Not because they have a good reason to do so, but just because they can and they seem to think its cool. Add to this the fact that the Star Wars IP tends to call up all kinds of different associations. Which leads to all kinds of widely differing expectations for what an MMORPG like SWTOR should be. And it becomes clear that BioWare cannot possibly please all these people. So when they fail, they are the target of all kinds of hate and negativity, from the offended party.
Of course none of this has much of a bearing on the quality of BioWare's finished product. Unless BioWare foolishly attempts to "please everyone"! And sadly, if I was to make a prediction at this point... I might be that they will "try". Then again, perhaps something good might come of it. (If it simply provides to further leason to the EA execs to leave BioWare alone, that will be a very good thing!)
I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
How many hours does it take to complete an SPG like ME, KOTOR and DA:O? Is there even 40 hours of content? So you play through once, then play through the same game again, then buy a new SPG. And all you get is an SPG, nothing else that you would see in an MMO.
So let's take a look at TOR. One class SPG story line has 200 hours of content. So for the same price of a SPG, you get 200 hours of content. Then instead of paying for another SPG or expansion. You pay $14.99 a month. So you get 1600 hours of unique SPG gameplay, if you play all the classes, for the price of the box plus a sub. That seems like a good deal to me.
So the average SPG costs around $40. You get 40 hours of content for $40. So devide the 1600 hours by 40 hours of a SPG and you get to buy 40 SPG's to equal the content in TOR. Even if you devide the 40 SPG's by the number of times you play through it. Say 3 play throughs on average. That would give you 13+ SPG's to buy. So you would pay $520 for 13 SPG's to give you just the SPG portion of TOR. Or almost 3 years of paying a sub to TOR.
So IMO it is a good thing that this MMO will have a ton of SPG level gameplay in it. As has been said throughout this thread. MMO features are in this game. Crafting and AH, open world exploring and PvP, group dungeon play, open world questing, raids (as stated by devs, but not seen yet) along with guilds and so on. So with the price of the game and a sub. We get a full BW SPG co-op to play with 1600 hours of unique content. Along with the normal MMO features seen in themepark MMO's. TOR will be well worth the money IMO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Seems like Biowrare has already fullfilled that requirements then. They have a story that ends, then you can go crafting, do other quests, talk to players, go exploring, do raids, do PvP, all that jazz.
Mmm so where is the information on this ? All we know currently is there will be quests with voiceover and a nice group questing system.
At least you aknowledge that you need something beyond questing.
Crafting or Economy
Community
PVP
all that jazz
Bioware has so far not shown - how any of these core elements will be realised. Stating " We will look into it later" is not actually something to disperse legitimate WORRIES.
And that brings me back to the topic is the reason why people think BW might have trouble making a good MMO.
You know what would be very bad? They spend 300 (?) million on SWTOR and it fails and Bioware goes bankrupt and we never see the end to Mass Effect and no DAO 2.... Now this would mean its /cut wrists time!
Btw, there are two main reasons why SWTOR will be successful.
Look at WOW - very successful company + lots of hate from trolls.
Now look at SWTOR.
1. Great amazing company with lots of fanboys - check
2. A lot of haters who wanna troll the game - check.
The End
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Comments
I just think there should be a better reason than "Its Bioware". Something more like - "they've made good games in the past" not "Its Bioware" because that's amazing BS. Anyway, its no secret that they've only made single player games and SWTOR is exactly that times 5 plus more than one player minus walls of text. And you could argue that other games like CO, AoC and WAR have something similar but then I'd have to ask you where those games are right now in their ratings amongst MMO gamers. The only thing that can save SWTOR is if the entire game plays like the beginning of AoC, me thinks that would kickass but I doubt it will play like that.
This is not a game.
In my personal view when people say it's Bioware they mean because they have made so many great games in the past that we trust their judgement. Just like people trust the judgement of say arena net (yeah i did that because it was to prove a point).
SWTOR is basically Kotor 3-11 (over 50 novels worth of VO was what they put it at) with other people. As for the beginning of AoC, what i saw of AoC was basically what i'm seeing here throughout. Not sure on the night thing but i don't think it needs night only. VO are throughout hence the term fully voiced audio. the fighting will be different granted but i think it will be just as action packed.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Yes but what if it is hella fun?
Would you rather play a bomber networked srpg or a poorly constructed 'true' mmorpg?
To me, the fact that it may contain elements outside of what a 'true' mmo has is a plus.
And what defines a true mmo? Should they include all the features WoW has? or should they make sure they have all the same stuff that EQ had? Or should it contain all of eve's features?
It just strikes me as the 'we're tired of WoW but your mmo better be just like it' argument (insert whatever game you wish in place of WoW).
For me, people are bashing this game due to semantics rather than actual reasons that this game may not be entertaining.
What if this game is so entertaining, it redefines what an mmo is?
You don't sell a car by showcasing the ashtray and steering wheel.
... but it's hard to sell a car if people aren't sure you remembered to put the engine in it.
If you're planning on playing an MMO long term, the gameplay systems are THE most important part. It's like showcasing a car and forgetting to show that it has tires, an engine, a transmission or steering wheel. Oh, but the body paint job is FANTASTIC.
Oh, I am not one of those who say it has to redfine what an MMO is. There are plenty of of very different MMOs out there right now - from Eve to WoW to Darkfall. What I am saying is that SWTOR must be good. And, right now, I have serious concerns about some aspects of this game. But if it works, great!
Some gameplay footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK6r9FIZOgo&feature=related
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I am a mmo veteran that has been playing in the mmo genre for many years now and I just got an xbox 360 and started Mass Effect for the 1st time and if they can successfully bring in the immersion that they did with Mass Effect it will be a great game.I think the main concerns most mmo players have with it is how well they do with grps.Most people fear it will just be a single player game thru-out with hardly no grp emphasis,but I think they will come thru on this part in the end.I do expect it to be solo friendly until endgame and then I bet it will be exactly like wow with raiding and pvp battlegrps although pvp battles sound smaller than wow as of right now imo.
Actually, I've seen gameplay footage, but I was mostly responding to that one person dismissing the other person's concerns as being equivalent to worrying about the ashtray in a car.
The game systems are THE important part of MMOs, in my opinion. Well, that and the other people playing it with you.
Sorry if I gave anybody the impression I was claiming SWTOR was a car without an engine, I was just explaining why people having gameplay and mechanics worries when they haven't seen what they're looking for isn't exactly crazy.
It's cool, i can understand when you don't see something that it will worry you. I always try and deal out gameplay footage as much as i can. BW marketing strategy with showing things leads to alot of people curious/worried. They tend to not show much other then a few snippets, and in this case they tend to show only what they feel is new to the genre. People still need to see if it will feel like an MMO. So i try and show things that are the mundane part like walking around, killing monsters. complete normal quests, grouping that sorta thing.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Lol, trust me when I say I cringe anytime someone says "Its Anet". It's just extremely funny to me especially when there's a 50% possibility they could F*** up somewhere.
This is not a game.
I agree. any company can screw up. I'm just hoping BW doesn't. So far it doesn't look like they have to me. my interest in this game is going by purely what i've seen, reviews i've heard, the short short demo i got, and what the devs are saying. really only thing i can go on.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Ultimately, it all comes down to this: can the KOTOR/ME dynamic work as an online multiplayer game? It will be interesting to see the answer.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I think you hit the nail on the head here. This is the question indeed. I'm hoping yes, but the true answer will come out when they release the game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
I can't tell you how much of an endgame there is, simply because i can't find much info on it.
I have this article though
BioWare devs talk future plans and SW:TOR.
MMORPG recently got the chance to interview interview Bioware CEO Ray Muzyka and Bioware VP Greg Zeschuk about the success of Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins and future plans for the games. The two also took the time to field questions about their upcoming MMORPG, Star Wars: The Old Republic. With newer MMOGs having to rely more and more on endgame content, BioWare is trying out a few new ideas that Muzyka refers to as "innovative," while also keeping standard MMOG features that players expect.
Heres the link to it http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/82508
I'd imagine once the story is done (meaning this part, expansions can always extend it). You'll mostly be doing raiding, PvP, crafting, talking to friends, running dungeons, running through other peoples stories, that sorta thing. There is also the world arcs you can do.
How much of these you can do, i don't know but there is at least some things you can do even if everything in that list is really small, which i don't think they will be.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
As certain as when Blizzard attempted to make their first mmo.
General Question do you play a MMO for a timespan of like 3 month or would you like to play it a year or 2 maybe even three?
Most people playing MMO would answer with 1 year plus - there once was a survey on mmorpg.com but i cant find it atm.
So what are the major difference between a SPRPG and a MMORPG?
1. Price and content
I buy a single player player game by a fixed price and i expect to be able to play it through. In contrast i pay a MMO on a monthly based fee where i expect the game to change over time and hope it improves over time. I expect the additon of content over time. Also i dont expect to be able to play thorugh an MMORPG. Because normally there should be no end.
2. Content and playtime
Even tho i pay for additonal content in a mmorpg i am aware that the developers will not be able to generate content in the same time as i play through it. Meaning in a MMORPG i expect there is something todo even tho i played through all the quests. Meaning the game system as its core must be entertaining even without quests. Otherwise you would play an mmo only after a content update and then dont play it for the next 3-4 month. In a single player game i am aware that the content is limited and after i am done with it i have played it through and move on to the next game.
A MMO needs to be appealing to many different players and playstyles it also needs to provide entertainment whenever you start it up. Thats why the System of an MMO is much more sophisticated. The ability to make a good SPRPG doesn not implify the ability to make a good mmo. Because all storytelling of a SPRPG is just a small part in an MMO.
People on the internet manifest the ability to see into the future.
A shame it never pans out into real life success.
Seems like Biowrare has already fullfilled that requirements then. They have a story that ends, then you can go crafting, do other quests, talk to players, go exploring, do raids, do PvP, all that jazz.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
People on the Internet, which by implication includes me, have a tendency to enjoy being negative. Not because they have a good reason to do so, but just because they can and they seem to think its cool. Add to this the fact that the Star Wars IP tends to call up all kinds of different associations. Which leads to all kinds of widely differing expectations for what an MMORPG like SWTOR should be. And it becomes clear that BioWare cannot possibly please all these people. So when they fail, they are the target of all kinds of hate and negativity, from the offended party.
Of course none of this has much of a bearing on the quality of BioWare's finished product. Unless BioWare foolishly attempts to "please everyone"! And sadly, if I was to make a prediction at this point... I might be that they will "try". Then again, perhaps something good might come of it. (If it simply provides to further leason to the EA execs to leave BioWare alone, that will be a very good thing!)
How many hours does it take to complete an SPG like ME, KOTOR and DA:O? Is there even 40 hours of content? So you play through once, then play through the same game again, then buy a new SPG. And all you get is an SPG, nothing else that you would see in an MMO.
So let's take a look at TOR. One class SPG story line has 200 hours of content. So for the same price of a SPG, you get 200 hours of content. Then instead of paying for another SPG or expansion. You pay $14.99 a month. So you get 1600 hours of unique SPG gameplay, if you play all the classes, for the price of the box plus a sub. That seems like a good deal to me.
So the average SPG costs around $40. You get 40 hours of content for $40. So devide the 1600 hours by 40 hours of a SPG and you get to buy 40 SPG's to equal the content in TOR. Even if you devide the 40 SPG's by the number of times you play through it. Say 3 play throughs on average. That would give you 13+ SPG's to buy. So you would pay $520 for 13 SPG's to give you just the SPG portion of TOR. Or almost 3 years of paying a sub to TOR.
So IMO it is a good thing that this MMO will have a ton of SPG level gameplay in it. As has been said throughout this thread. MMO features are in this game. Crafting and AH, open world exploring and PvP, group dungeon play, open world questing, raids (as stated by devs, but not seen yet) along with guilds and so on. So with the price of the game and a sub. We get a full BW SPG co-op to play with 1600 hours of unique content. Along with the normal MMO features seen in themepark MMO's. TOR will be well worth the money IMO.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Mmm so where is the information on this ? All we know currently is there will be quests with voiceover and a nice group questing system.
At least you aknowledge that you need something beyond questing.
Crafting or Economy
Community
PVP
all that jazz
Bioware has so far not shown - how any of these core elements will be realised. Stating " We will look into it later" is not actually something to disperse legitimate WORRIES.
And that brings me back to the topic is the reason why people think BW might have trouble making a good MMO.
You know what would be very bad? They spend 300 (?) million on SWTOR and it fails and Bioware goes bankrupt and we never see the end to Mass Effect and no DAO 2.... Now this would mean its /cut wrists time!
Btw, there are two main reasons why SWTOR will be successful.
Look at WOW - very successful company + lots of hate from trolls.
Now look at SWTOR.
1. Great amazing company with lots of fanboys - check
2. A lot of haters who wanna troll the game - check.
The End
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.