I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
How many hours does it take to complete an SPG like ME, KOTOR and DA:O? Is there even 40 hours of content? So you play through once, then play through the same game again, then buy a new SPG. And all you get is an SPG, nothing else that you would see in an MMO.
So let's take a look at TOR. One class SPG story line has 200 hours of content. So for the same price of a SPG, you get 200 hours of content. Then instead of paying for another SPG or expansion. You pay $14.99 a month. So you get 1600 hours of unique SPG gameplay, if you play all the classes, for the price of the box plus a sub. That seems like a good deal to me.
So the average SPG costs around $40. You get 40 hours of content for $40. So devide the 1600 hours by 40 hours of a SPG and you get to buy 40 SPG's to equal the content in TOR. Even if you devide the 40 SPG's by the number of times you play through it. Say 3 play throughs on average. That would give you 13+ SPG's to buy. So you would pay $520 for 13 SPG's to give you just the SPG portion of TOR. Or almost 3 years of paying a sub to TOR.
So IMO it is a good thing that this MMO will have a ton of SPG level gameplay in it. As has been said throughout this thread. MMO features are in this game. Crafting and AH, open world exploring and PvP, group dungeon play, open world questing, raids (as stated by devs, but not seen yet) along with guilds and so on. So with the price of the game and a sub. We get a full BW SPG co-op to play with 1600 hours of unique content. Along with the normal MMO features seen in themepark MMO's. TOR will be well worth the money IMO.
You actually belief that EA Bioware will be able to keep up the development costs of hours and hours SPRPG experience for the lousy price of 14 bucks ? - You are kidding right that would be the greatest it develop ever.
You also implicit that each class will be a totally different story line ?? what brings you to this conclusion i havent got any info on this but i might be wrong (even tho i doubt it)
What i can agree to is that the current known version of TOR looks like a descent CooP SPRPG with about 100-200 hours of playtime and after that i will not resub and move along. Its just that it doesnt feel like a mmo at all. Still you are right its a nice deal when compared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
Seems like Biowrare has already fullfilled that requirements then. They have a story that ends, then you can go crafting, do other quests, talk to players, go exploring, do raids, do PvP, all that jazz.
Mmm so where is the information on this ? All we know currently is there will be quests with voiceover and a nice group questing system.
At least you aknowledge that you need something beyond questing.
Crafting or Economy
Crafting is done by crew skills. They have also stated there would be an auction house
Quote:" “Hey, if I’m really into more the crafting, harvesting, auction house type of gameplay, are you going to support that?” "Absolutely" - MMOGamer
Community
Quote: "Going to have crafting and harvesting, going to have guilds and social activities" - MMOGamer
Each Warzone will have different mechanics - Darth Hater
Open pvp quote:
Quote: There will be "Open World PvP" in terms of meeting members of other factions on planets as Tatooine being able to decide if you want to attack them or not. -SWTOR-Station
Confirmed by Greg Zeschuk that there will be Open World PvP in appropriate areas within TOR - Interview
The designers from Warhammer are working on the PvP for TOR. - SWTOR-Station
all that jazz
They haven't shown much in actual video content but i think we can get a fair grasp on how things will play out
I have to find the video or quote but they did state that you could dance on top of mailboxes without any pants on if you so choose. So they apparently have mailboxes in game.
Bioware has so far not shown - how any of these core elements will be realised. Stating " We will look into it later" is not actually something to disperse legitimate WORRIES.
And that brings me back to the topic is the reason why people think BW might have trouble making a good MMO.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
mpared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
For the sake of argument, could you please point me to an MMO that is truly massive?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
How many hours does it take to complete an SPG like ME, KOTOR and DA:O? Is there even 40 hours of content? So you play through once, then play through the same game again, then buy a new SPG. And all you get is an SPG, nothing else that you would see in an MMO.
So let's take a look at TOR. One class SPG story line has 200 hours of content. So for the same price of a SPG, you get 200 hours of content. Then instead of paying for another SPG or expansion. You pay $14.99 a month. So you get 1600 hours of unique SPG gameplay, if you play all the classes, for the price of the box plus a sub. That seems like a good deal to me.
So the average SPG costs around $40. You get 40 hours of content for $40. So devide the 1600 hours by 40 hours of a SPG and you get to buy 40 SPG's to equal the content in TOR. Even if you devide the 40 SPG's by the number of times you play through it. Say 3 play throughs on average. That would give you 13+ SPG's to buy. So you would pay $520 for 13 SPG's to give you just the SPG portion of TOR. Or almost 3 years of paying a sub to TOR.
So IMO it is a good thing that this MMO will have a ton of SPG level gameplay in it. As has been said throughout this thread. MMO features are in this game. Crafting and AH, open world exploring and PvP, group dungeon play, open world questing, raids (as stated by devs, but not seen yet) along with guilds and so on. So with the price of the game and a sub. We get a full BW SPG co-op to play with 1600 hours of unique content. Along with the normal MMO features seen in themepark MMO's. TOR will be well worth the money IMO.
You actually belief that EA Bioware will be able to keep up the development costs of hours and hours SPRPG experience for the lousy price of 14 bucks ? - You are kidding right that would be the greatest it develop ever.
You also implicit that each class will be a totally different story line ?? what brings you to this conclusion i havent got any info on this but i might be wrong (even tho i doubt it)
What i can agree to is that the current known version of TOR looks like a descent CooP SPRPG with about 100-200 hours of playtime and after that i will not resub and move along. Its just that it doesnt feel like a mmo at all. Still you are right its a nice deal when compared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
Bioware has been spouting that each class will have its own class story line. We've known this for a long long long time. How you ever missed this is beyond belief. 8 classes each with their very own class story. 8 Stories to created plus shared world arcs, etc.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
How many hours does it take to complete an SPG like ME, KOTOR and DA:O? Is there even 40 hours of content? So you play through once, then play through the same game again, then buy a new SPG. And all you get is an SPG, nothing else that you would see in an MMO.
So let's take a look at TOR. One class SPG story line has 200 hours of content. So for the same price of a SPG, you get 200 hours of content. Then instead of paying for another SPG or expansion. You pay $14.99 a month. So you get 1600 hours of unique SPG gameplay, if you play all the classes, for the price of the box plus a sub. That seems like a good deal to me.
So the average SPG costs around $40. You get 40 hours of content for $40. So devide the 1600 hours by 40 hours of a SPG and you get to buy 40 SPG's to equal the content in TOR. Even if you devide the 40 SPG's by the number of times you play through it. Say 3 play throughs on average. That would give you 13+ SPG's to buy. So you would pay $520 for 13 SPG's to give you just the SPG portion of TOR. Or almost 3 years of paying a sub to TOR.
So IMO it is a good thing that this MMO will have a ton of SPG level gameplay in it. As has been said throughout this thread. MMO features are in this game. Crafting and AH, open world exploring and PvP, group dungeon play, open world questing, raids (as stated by devs, but not seen yet) along with guilds and so on. So with the price of the game and a sub. We get a full BW SPG co-op to play with 1600 hours of unique content. Along with the normal MMO features seen in themepark MMO's. TOR will be well worth the money IMO.
You actually belief that EA Bioware will be able to keep up the development costs of hours and hours SPRPG experience for the lousy price of 14 bucks ? - You are kidding right that would be the greatest it develop ever.
You also implicit that each class will be a totally different story line ?? what brings you to this conclusion i havent got any info on this but i might be wrong (even tho i doubt it)
What i can agree to is that the current known version of TOR looks like a descent CooP SPRPG with about 100-200 hours of playtime and after that i will not resub and move along. Its just that it doesnt feel like a mmo at all. Still you are right its a nice deal when compared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
Okay i'm going to start over here as some misinformation might have happened to have you come to that conclusion.
First off if you make a game well then you can rake in tons of money. If BW can bring in 1M people for even one month they can make 15M dollars per month. Most of that i'm sure will be profit (or rather recovering costs at first). If they didn't think this was possible to do on just 15 dollars from each person neither BW nor EA would have gone into it.
Not sure how you came to the co-op idea. Nothing rings like that to me. 4 party members for grouping, you have raids, group quests, flash points (which are grouped based dungeons) Granted the groups are smaller but that is hardly co-op.
There is gameplay footage out there that show you are not alone and there are other people. I don't think we need to see 500 people in a square to assume it's an MMO. However for the sake of getting rid of misinformation heres a clip of gameplay that shows people walking around killing things.
It's from gamescom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZZLRcqb4bs right at about 5 mins is when you see other people. This is most likely before the testing began and is less populated then when a game goes live, it's more to show that there are other people in game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
How many hours does it take to complete an SPG like ME, KOTOR and DA:O? Is there even 40 hours of content? So you play through once, then play through the same game again, then buy a new SPG. And all you get is an SPG, nothing else that you would see in an MMO.
So let's take a look at TOR. One class SPG story line has 200 hours of content. So for the same price of a SPG, you get 200 hours of content. Then instead of paying for another SPG or expansion. You pay $14.99 a month. So you get 1600 hours of unique SPG gameplay, if you play all the classes, for the price of the box plus a sub. That seems like a good deal to me.
So the average SPG costs around $40. You get 40 hours of content for $40. So devide the 1600 hours by 40 hours of a SPG and you get to buy 40 SPG's to equal the content in TOR. Even if you devide the 40 SPG's by the number of times you play through it. Say 3 play throughs on average. That would give you 13+ SPG's to buy. So you would pay $520 for 13 SPG's to give you just the SPG portion of TOR. Or almost 3 years of paying a sub to TOR.
So IMO it is a good thing that this MMO will have a ton of SPG level gameplay in it. As has been said throughout this thread. MMO features are in this game. Crafting and AH, open world exploring and PvP, group dungeon play, open world questing, raids (as stated by devs, but not seen yet) along with guilds and so on. So with the price of the game and a sub. We get a full BW SPG co-op to play with 1600 hours of unique content. Along with the normal MMO features seen in themepark MMO's. TOR will be well worth the money IMO.
You actually belief that EA Bioware will be able to keep up the development costs of hours and hours SPRPG experience for the lousy price of 14 bucks ? - You are kidding right that would be the greatest it develop ever.
You also implicit that each class will be a totally different story line ?? what brings you to this conclusion i havent got any info on this but i might be wrong (even tho i doubt it)
What i can agree to is that the current known version of TOR looks like a descent CooP SPRPG with about 100-200 hours of playtime and after that i will not resub and move along. Its just that it doesnt feel like a mmo at all. Still you are right its a nice deal when compared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
Right now BW has about 50 novels worth of VO in the game. They have stated multiple times that each of the 8 classes has a unique story from level 1 to 50. They have said that each class story has around 200 hours. So that is 1600 hours of content if you play it all.
Yes I agree that the SPRPG with a co-op of 4 total players will be a very good gaming experience. And for those gamers that want a SPG game, they will have that option. But at the same time, the open world quests and kill quests will be going on at the same time. So you will have your SPG class story objectives while playing in an open world with other players and NPC's. This is where the normal open world quests occure as seen in WoW or LOTRO or EQII or WAR and the like. Also as in other MMO's, you will get a quest that ends in a group required dungeon quests. You will have to have others join you or you will not be able to complete the quest and get the best gear. There will also be Warzone options for PvP senerios to play through. You can not play in a warzone as a SPG. Crafting will require buying mats or gear from the AH or trading with other players. You can only have one craft as a player.
And as for the MMO in MMORPG, you are right again. But you missed something. The Coop SPRPG is inside of the MMORPG. Both will be in TOR. You have the option to ignore other players and just play the game as a SPG. Or you play the SPG part and the MMO part as one game. Because that is what TOR will give you. The total MMORPG package with SPG level questing and MMO features.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I'm just happy if they make a WOW clone with a Star Wars skin and has good sub base. I would like to see a few things taken further than what WOW has though.
As for the game with Massive in it - if it comes to real massive i would state DAOC or EVE where a few hundred people interact(ed) pretty often together if we take about 100 ppl as a limit i would point out Aion or WAR PVP even Lineage 2 Castle Sieges involved around 100 - when we count more than 50 ppl acting together its probably most MMOs.. A CooP game based on an interactive groupplay in a heavy instanced world is definelty not MASSIVE. Dont get me wrong i hope the raid content and mass scale pvp in TOR will be there and that it will be good - i just wanna point out that so far we havent seen any of these core features and i think they should have focused on this more than the nice to have stupid voiceover talks.
The class stories are something completly different than what you mentioned. Each class has a different start and some Class specific storys but it not like the story will be completly different. On most parts the story will develop alongside the other classes. Thats what we know for a long time. So out of your 200 hours of storyline i would say about 20% differs for each class at most.
They need to pay the development time. How can you think that there will be 8 totally different story lines ?
Crafting yes they told us that there will be crafting what they havent told us how it will be implemented what are the mechanics how deep will crafting be? Sorry by far not enough information on a crafting system to say its descent and a long term motivation.
The PVP we see in the warzones is what ? Group based? faction based ? Allianz based ? Guild based ? How will PVP effect the world? How do you enter such a warzone and what are the restrictions level wise? How many ppl can play in one warzone at the same time etc... Regarding the PVP we know there will be one - detailed information again ... none or at least not enough given the fact that this is core feature of MMO.
and regarding your little math formula where you point out that they can make 15 mil bucks in one month ... hello the development costs are at about 160 mil USD stated in 2010 at GamesCom and they will have costs for running the servers and paying the staff this game needs to be a longterm success to make profit.
You all make me look like i am actually bashing and hating this game - THATS NOT THE CASE. All i wanna point out that BWs approach to the game is (based on current information) not focused on the system core elements of a MMORPG. And this misfocus might lead to bad game which i don't hope.
So stop treating me like i a hateful bashing forum troll.
It's understandable for people to have doubts. But for people that speak like they know for a FACT that the game will fail, or will be a single player RPG online, well they've probably already made up their mind about the game for one reason or another and there probably isn't anything anybody can say or do to change that fact.
Also it depends on who you ask wether it will be a good MMO or not, as everyone has their own opinion of what a good MMO should be like. Some want a sandbox game, some want something like WoW with Star Wars skin, some want something like Mass Effect mixed with Force Unleashed in an MMO setting.
But the thing with TOR that people need to understand is that Bioware isn't just trying to appeal to the MMO crowd. They're trying to draw in all kinds of players, even people that may have never played an MMO in their life. They're trying to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible. Which if you think about it is a very smart move, considering WoW still holds most of the MMO market. Having a single player like experience makes it easier for people that have never played an MMO before to transition into the MMO genre.
Now does that mean that the game will only be mainly single player focused? Well I don't think at this point anybody can say for sure. But out of the things they've confirmed it sounds like they're going to have all of the same things pretty much any other MMO is going to have these days. That is, group quests, PvP, raids and instances, crafting, auction house, player housing, etc. Even with all of that announced though, people still seem to have their doubts. Maybe I'm just missing something, but what other kind of multiplayer activites do people expect to be in an MMO?
Yeah, as Bioware has said, you can play through the game all the way to level cap solo if you wish to do so. But you would be missing out on group quests, open world PvP and Warzones, instances, etc. But that's not the only way to level, infact they've said you can level all the way to cap just doing PvP and warzones if you want to. And really when you think about it, how is that any different from most other MMOS these days where you can solo quest to cap if you wish to do so?
Honestly the addition of an engaging, multi branching story line appeals to me a lot more than running from quest hub to quest hub vacuuming up quests that I never read and grinding out boring kill or fetch quests for 50 levels.
I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
How many hours does it take to complete an SPG like ME, KOTOR and DA:O? Is there even 40 hours of content? So you play through once, then play through the same game again, then buy a new SPG. And all you get is an SPG, nothing else that you would see in an MMO.
So let's take a look at TOR. One class SPG story line has 200 hours of content. So for the same price of a SPG, you get 200 hours of content. Then instead of paying for another SPG or expansion. You pay $14.99 a month. So you get 1600 hours of unique SPG gameplay, if you play all the classes, for the price of the box plus a sub. That seems like a good deal to me.
So the average SPG costs around $40. You get 40 hours of content for $40. So devide the 1600 hours by 40 hours of a SPG and you get to buy 40 SPG's to equal the content in TOR. Even if you devide the 40 SPG's by the number of times you play through it. Say 3 play throughs on average. That would give you 13+ SPG's to buy. So you would pay $520 for 13 SPG's to give you just the SPG portion of TOR. Or almost 3 years of paying a sub to TOR.
So IMO it is a good thing that this MMO will have a ton of SPG level gameplay in it. As has been said throughout this thread. MMO features are in this game. Crafting and AH, open world exploring and PvP, group dungeon play, open world questing, raids (as stated by devs, but not seen yet) along with guilds and so on. So with the price of the game and a sub. We get a full BW SPG co-op to play with 1600 hours of unique content. Along with the normal MMO features seen in themepark MMO's. TOR will be well worth the money IMO.
You actually belief that EA Bioware will be able to keep up the development costs of hours and hours SPRPG experience for the lousy price of 14 bucks ? - You are kidding right that would be the greatest it develop ever.
You also implicit that each class will be a totally different story line ?? what brings you to this conclusion i havent got any info on this but i might be wrong (even tho i doubt it)
What i can agree to is that the current known version of TOR looks like a descent CooP SPRPG with about 100-200 hours of playtime and after that i will not resub and move along. Its just that it doesnt feel like a mmo at all. Still you are right its a nice deal when compared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
Yes, each class is a completely different story line. And each are said to be around 200 hours long. That's why they've said it's like KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10, 11 if you count the world story arc.
I've noticed that the majority of people who complain about or knock the game are hardcores who wanted a return to old school, sandbox gaming. Unhappy that it won't be that, they are lashing out at game and supporters alike. Understanable to some extent, I'm not sure why they invade every single thread about the game nor why they don't move on to more hardcore oriented games like Earthrise or The Secret World or Tera and leave us in peace.
I think that even if SW:TOR is just a glorified single player RPG (ala KOTOR or Mass Effect) that you can play with a friend, it will still be worth buying - it's just that if that's the type of game it is, I can't really see myself paying for a subscription for multiple months. I play through Mass Effect, KOTOR and DA:O two or three times and then never play again.
My concern is the end-game play (after the storyline and leveling to the top). Will there be enough there to keep people interested, and above all, subscribing?
That's where games like WoW and the EQ series really shine. There are lots of people that have been playing and subscribing since the launch of those games, in many cases 5+ years of subscriptions.
How many hours does it take to complete an SPG like ME, KOTOR and DA:O? Is there even 40 hours of content? So you play through once, then play through the same game again, then buy a new SPG. And all you get is an SPG, nothing else that you would see in an MMO.
So let's take a look at TOR. One class SPG story line has 200 hours of content. So for the same price of a SPG, you get 200 hours of content. Then instead of paying for another SPG or expansion. You pay $14.99 a month. So you get 1600 hours of unique SPG gameplay, if you play all the classes, for the price of the box plus a sub. That seems like a good deal to me.
So the average SPG costs around $40. You get 40 hours of content for $40. So devide the 1600 hours by 40 hours of a SPG and you get to buy 40 SPG's to equal the content in TOR. Even if you devide the 40 SPG's by the number of times you play through it. Say 3 play throughs on average. That would give you 13+ SPG's to buy. So you would pay $520 for 13 SPG's to give you just the SPG portion of TOR. Or almost 3 years of paying a sub to TOR.
So IMO it is a good thing that this MMO will have a ton of SPG level gameplay in it. As has been said throughout this thread. MMO features are in this game. Crafting and AH, open world exploring and PvP, group dungeon play, open world questing, raids (as stated by devs, but not seen yet) along with guilds and so on. So with the price of the game and a sub. We get a full BW SPG co-op to play with 1600 hours of unique content. Along with the normal MMO features seen in themepark MMO's. TOR will be well worth the money IMO.
You actually belief that EA Bioware will be able to keep up the development costs of hours and hours SPRPG experience for the lousy price of 14 bucks ? - You are kidding right that would be the greatest it develop ever.
You also implicit that each class will be a totally different story line ?? what brings you to this conclusion i havent got any info on this but i might be wrong (even tho i doubt it)
What i can agree to is that the current known version of TOR looks like a descent CooP SPRPG with about 100-200 hours of playtime and after that i will not resub and move along. Its just that it doesnt feel like a mmo at all. Still you are right its a nice deal when compared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
Yes, each class is a completely different story line. And each are said to be around 200 hours long. That's why they've said it's like KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10, 11 if you count the world story arc.
Not only does each class have it's own exclusive story line, there are tons of typical MMO questing on the side and mob camps and dungeons and raids and crafting and mini games and space mini game and so forth. Everything they have revealed so far indicates to me that this game will be releasing with tons of content plus the stroy lines.
mpared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
For the sake of argument, could you please point me to an MMO that is truly massive?
I've noticed that the majority of people who complain about or knock the game are hardcores who wanted a return to old school, sandbox gaming. Unhappy that it won't be that, they are lashing out at game and supporters alike. Understanable to some extent, I'm not sure why they invade every single thread about the game nor why they don't move on to more hardcore oriented games like Earthrise or The Secret World or Tera and leave us in peace.
There are 2 types that complains: the old SWG sandbox fans that feel Bioware and Lucas art should make a game for them and fans of other games.'
But there is also a rather large group which includes me that are not sure but a bit worried that Bioware will use instances and cutscenes to a degree that will make the game annoying to play. But that is worries, not facts and we will wait until we tried for the judge if that is true or not.
My opinion is that Bioware deserves a chance, we give it a trial and then decide if it sucks, rocks or are just meh. But I have that opinion for all games.
If I think it sucks I will state it here and why I think it does, same thing if I think it is great. I will not troll it over and over but the point of a forum is discussion. If I think it is meh I will not mention it at all, or possibly in a short review if I have some time over or someone asks me.
mpared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
For the sake of argument, could you please point me to an MMO that is truly massive?
I have to point out Eve. Has to be said.
Everything in Eve is done with massive numbers of players? Last I checked, there were a lot of miners and crafters who solo as well as those who deliver goods between sectors. Just becasue the main story line is capable of being soloed, doesn't mean you can't invite groups or even raids to do them, nor can you deny that the developers have reiterated many times that this game would have all kinds of typical MMO content, such as side quests, raids, crafting, mini games, mob camps and so forth.
I've noticed that the majority of people who complain about or knock the game are hardcores who wanted a return to old school, sandbox gaming. Unhappy that it won't be that, they are lashing out at game and supporters alike. Understanable to some extent, I'm not sure why they invade every single thread about the game nor why they don't move on to more hardcore oriented games like Earthrise or The Secret World or Tera and leave us in peace.
There are 2 types that complains: the old SWG sandbox fans that feel Bioware and Lucas art should make a game for them and fans of other games.'
But there is also a rather large group which includes me that are not sure but a bit worried that Bioware will use instances and cutscenes to a degree that will make the game annoying to play. But that is worries, not facts and we will wait until we tried for the judge if that is true or not.
My opinion is that Bioware deserves a chance, we give it a trial and then decide if it sucks, rocks or are just meh. But I have that opinion for all games.
If I think it sucks I will state it here and why I think it does, same thing if I think it is great. I will not troll it over and over but the point of a forum is discussion. If I think it is meh I will not mention it at all, or possibly in a short review if I have some time over or someone asks me.
Yet I have seen people just like you, rehash the exact same arguements in every single thread about this game. It's one thing to discuss different points, but you guys go on and on about the exact same thing every time and it's always the same dozen or so posters. You guys always end up derailing a thread and repeat ad nauseum the things you dislike about the game, as if we didn't get it in the first 50 threads you guys responded to.
mpared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
For the sake of argument, could you please point me to an MMO that is truly massive?
I have to point out Eve. Has to be said.
Everything in Eve is done with massive numbers of players? Last I checked, there were a lot of miners and crafters who solo as well as those who deliver goods between sectors. Just becasue the main story line is capable of being soloed, doesn't mean you can't invite groups or even raids to do them, nor can you deny that the developers have reiterated many times that this game would have all kinds of typical MMO content, such as side quests, raids, crafting, mini games, mob camps and so forth.
The difference is that eve is build around the mechanis that allow massive pvp interaction the very concept of the game is designed that way. Eve is a sandbox game and so only provides sand (content) and set of rules and mechanics to allow playing with the sand.
Ofc you can play Solo in EVE not everything hass to be done in the crowd. But the system is sophisticated so it doesnt brake when ppl try to play in a massive way together. Such a sophisticated system needs focus. You cant just make a SPRPG and then convert it to Coop and then to a massive level. You need to focus of the core of the game. And currently the core of TOR seems to be questdriven storyline Coop Modus. And not a MMORPG concept.
mpared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
For the sake of argument, could you please point me to an MMO that is truly massive?
I have to point out Eve. Has to be said.
Everything in Eve is done with massive numbers of players? Last I checked, there were a lot of miners and crafters who solo as well as those who deliver goods between sectors. Just becasue the main story line is capable of being soloed, doesn't mean you can't invite groups or even raids to do them, nor can you deny that the developers have reiterated many times that this game would have all kinds of typical MMO content, such as side quests, raids, crafting, mini games, mob camps and so forth.
The difference is that eve is build around the mechanis that allow massive pvp interaction the very concept of the game is designed that way. Eve is a sandbox game and so only provides sand (content) and set of rules and mechanics to allow playing with the sand.
Ofc you can play Solo in EVE not everything hass to be done in the crowd. But the system is sophisticated so it doesnt brake when ppl try to play in a massive way together. Such a sophisticated system needs focus. You cant just make a SPRPG and then convert it to Coop and then to a massive level. You need to focus of the core of the game. And currently the core of TOR seems to be questdriven storyline Coop Modus. And not a MMORPG concept.
The point being that just because TOR can be soloed, doesn't mean it has to be the primary way to play the game. I'm pretty sure people won't be able to solo the raids or certain overland bosses or quests that are designated for groups, which has stated will be in game. I'm tired of people labing this as a single player game when it is emphatically not!
People fear Bioware can't make a good mmorpg because they are so good at Single Player Rpg.........they fear it wont feel like an mmo :P
Yet they cannot come up with one single justfiable reason for this fear other than to flat out say that Bioware is lying about their game, because they have stated over and over that this is an MMO, not a single player coop game!
Yet I have seen people just like you, rehash the exact same arguements in every single thread about this game. It's one thing to discuss different points, but you guys go on and on about the exact same thing every time and it's always the same dozen or so posters. You guys always end up derailing a thread and repeat ad nauseum the things you dislike about the game, as if we didn't get it in the first 50 threads you guys responded to.
I don't see him derailing threads at all. Insight from members such as loke666 are always welcome considering they have been enjoying the genre since it's commencement. A little bit of wisdom from long time mmorpg players is nothing but a good thing.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
As for the game with Massive in it - if it comes to real massive i would state DAOC or EVE where a few hundred people interact(ed) pretty often together if we take about 100 ppl as a limit i would point out Aion or WAR PVP even Lineage 2 Castle Sieges involved around 100 - when we count more than 50 ppl acting together its probably most MMOs.. A CooP game based on an interactive groupplay in a heavy instanced world is definelty not MASSIVE. Dont get me wrong i hope the raid content and mass scale pvp in TOR will be there and that it will be good - i just wanna point out that so far we havent seen any of these core features and i think they should have focused on this more than the nice to have stupid voiceover talks.
You are talking about GW1 or STO with that instanced game play. TOR will have seamless instance doorways to talk to your class quest NPC. They will also have dungeons (flashpoints) as seen in other MMO's that will be an instance. There will also be phasing in the game to help with story. But questing and running around in a open seamless world will also be there. There will be thousands of open world quests that have nothing to do with your story. Everyone on a server and planet will be on the same planet, it will be an open world. It will be the same as WoW as far as game world play. Only difference will be that the instances that require a loading screen in WoW will be a seamless move in and out in TOR.
The class stories are something completly different than what you mentioned. Each class has a different start and some Class specific storys but it not like the story will be completly different. On most parts the story will develop alongside the other classes. Thats what we know for a long time. So out of your 200 hours of storyline i would say about 20% differs for each class at most.
You are 100% wrong on this. There will be a Jedi Knight class story that is about 200 hours. The Jedi Consular will start on the same world, but the class story will be very different from the Knight. And the Consular has 200 hours of story. The Smuggler and Trooper will each have 200 hours of different class story. Same for the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquistor. And for the Imperial Agent and Bounty Hunter.
What you are getting confused with is the open world quests. These quests will be the same for all Republic classes. The Sith will also have open world qeusts that are for all the sith and are the same. They are the help the NPC in a town or on the road. As well as the Kill X 10 times quests. These non-story quests will be the same for everyone in the same faction. You could add in the Flashpoints and Epic group story quests as well. These will all be the same for each faction. But all class quest arcs will be unique. 1600 hours worth.
But the open world quests will be completely different for each faction. So if you play a republic character then a sith character. You will never see one quest that is the same.
They need to pay the development time. How can you think that there will be 8 totally different story lines ?
If you do some research, you will find all the info out there. It is what they have been working on for the past 5 years.
Crafting yes they told us that there will be crafting what they havent told us how it will be implemented what are the mechanics how deep will crafting be? Sorry by far not enough information on a crafting system to say its descent and a long term motivation.
Again the info is out there. There will be 4 gathering skills. There will be 6 crafting skills. There will be 4 mission skills. A character can only have 3 total skills. And only one of those skills can be a craft. So you will have to depend on others if you want to craft. One thing we know is that there will only be a couple crafter per server that will be the top crafters. Only they can make the best gear possible. And it will require a lot of work and help to get there.
The PVP we see in the warzones is what ? Group based? faction based ? Allianz based ? Guild based ? How will PVP effect the world? How do you enter such a warzone and what are the restrictions level wise? How many ppl can play in one warzone at the same time etc... Regarding the PVP we know there will be one - detailed information again ... none or at least not enough given the fact that this is core feature of MMO.
We still need this info expanded apon. We know that the first Warzone is on Alderan and it is 8x8 so far. The second will be on a spacecraft and will be objective based with offensive and deffensive objectives. But this is still subject to change.
We know that there will be open world PvP on a PvP server. We know that there will be PvP areas, possibly entire planets fighting over 'something', for 'something'. But yes, we need more info here. But we won't get it until it is closer to being ready.
and regarding your little math formula where you point out that they can make 15 mil bucks in one month ... hello the development costs are at about 160 mil USD stated in 2010 at GamesCom and they will have costs for running the servers and paying the staff this game needs to be a longterm success to make profit.
You all make me look like i am actually bashing and hating this game - THATS NOT THE CASE. All i wanna point out that BWs approach to the game is (based on current information) not focused on the system core elements of a MMORPG. And this misfocus might lead to bad game which i don't hope.
To me, it is more of a focus on what makes them different from other MMO's. And that is the focus on story, VO and choice. I will agree that we have not learned enough about each MMO feature, but that is to be expected with their development choices.
So stop treating me like i a hateful bashing forum troll.
What I look at is the info a post talks about. If I think it is wrong or missing facts, I like to try to add what I think is missing. From me, that is not bashing a forum troll, but a discussion based on two opinions.
and all i did was explaining and stating facts why people have a valid and solid reason to have such an opinion!
True, but some info was missing. And that is the main problem and reason for the questions. Missing info and just plain wrong info. Both are from gamers not doing research and BioWare not releasing info on features still being worked on.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Comments
You actually belief that EA Bioware will be able to keep up the development costs of hours and hours SPRPG experience for the lousy price of 14 bucks ? - You are kidding right that would be the greatest it develop ever.
You also implicit that each class will be a totally different story line ?? what brings you to this conclusion i havent got any info on this but i might be wrong (even tho i doubt it)
What i can agree to is that the current known version of TOR looks like a descent CooP SPRPG with about 100-200 hours of playtime and after that i will not resub and move along. Its just that it doesnt feel like a mmo at all. Still you are right its a nice deal when compared to the games you mentioned. But does this make it a MMO ?
lemme remind you MMORPG stand for Massiv Multiplayer Online RolePlay Game. I seem to miss at least the first part in a Coop SPRPG ... where is the massiv in 6 people ?
Crafting
Community
PvP
More types of PvP are confirmed and there have been various dev posts about it, PvP servers confirmed.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
For the sake of argument, could you please point me to an MMO that is truly massive?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Bioware has been spouting that each class will have its own class story line. We've known this for a long long long time. How you ever missed this is beyond belief. 8 classes each with their very own class story. 8 Stories to created plus shared world arcs, etc.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!
Okay i'm going to start over here as some misinformation might have happened to have you come to that conclusion.
First off if you make a game well then you can rake in tons of money. If BW can bring in 1M people for even one month they can make 15M dollars per month. Most of that i'm sure will be profit (or rather recovering costs at first). If they didn't think this was possible to do on just 15 dollars from each person neither BW nor EA would have gone into it.
Each class has about 200 Hours worth of story each. This has been said several times but heres a link to the video of them saying it. http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/video/6212670/crosshairs-interview-bioware-austin-on-star-wars-the-old-republic IT's near the end of the clip
Not sure how you came to the co-op idea. Nothing rings like that to me. 4 party members for grouping, you have raids, group quests, flash points (which are grouped based dungeons) Granted the groups are smaller but that is hardly co-op.
There is gameplay footage out there that show you are not alone and there are other people. I don't think we need to see 500 people in a square to assume it's an MMO. However for the sake of getting rid of misinformation heres a clip of gameplay that shows people walking around killing things.
It's from gamescom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZZLRcqb4bs right at about 5 mins is when you see other people. This is most likely before the testing began and is less populated then when a game goes live, it's more to show that there are other people in game.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Right now BW has about 50 novels worth of VO in the game. They have stated multiple times that each of the 8 classes has a unique story from level 1 to 50. They have said that each class story has around 200 hours. So that is 1600 hours of content if you play it all.
Yes I agree that the SPRPG with a co-op of 4 total players will be a very good gaming experience. And for those gamers that want a SPG game, they will have that option. But at the same time, the open world quests and kill quests will be going on at the same time. So you will have your SPG class story objectives while playing in an open world with other players and NPC's. This is where the normal open world quests occure as seen in WoW or LOTRO or EQII or WAR and the like. Also as in other MMO's, you will get a quest that ends in a group required dungeon quests. You will have to have others join you or you will not be able to complete the quest and get the best gear. There will also be Warzone options for PvP senerios to play through. You can not play in a warzone as a SPG. Crafting will require buying mats or gear from the AH or trading with other players. You can only have one craft as a player.
And as for the MMO in MMORPG, you are right again. But you missed something. The Coop SPRPG is inside of the MMORPG. Both will be in TOR. You have the option to ignore other players and just play the game as a SPG. Or you play the SPG part and the MMO part as one game. Because that is what TOR will give you. The total MMORPG package with SPG level questing and MMO features.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I'm just happy if they make a WOW clone with a Star Wars skin and has good sub base. I would like to see a few things taken further than what WOW has though.
"He's no good to me dead."
As for the game with Massive in it - if it comes to real massive i would state DAOC or EVE where a few hundred people interact(ed) pretty often together if we take about 100 ppl as a limit i would point out Aion or WAR PVP even Lineage 2 Castle Sieges involved around 100 - when we count more than 50 ppl acting together its probably most MMOs.. A CooP game based on an interactive groupplay in a heavy instanced world is definelty not MASSIVE. Dont get me wrong i hope the raid content and mass scale pvp in TOR will be there and that it will be good - i just wanna point out that so far we havent seen any of these core features and i think they should have focused on this more than the nice to have stupid voiceover talks.
The class stories are something completly different than what you mentioned. Each class has a different start and some Class specific storys but it not like the story will be completly different. On most parts the story will develop alongside the other classes. Thats what we know for a long time. So out of your 200 hours of storyline i would say about 20% differs for each class at most.
They need to pay the development time. How can you think that there will be 8 totally different story lines ?
Crafting yes they told us that there will be crafting what they havent told us how it will be implemented what are the mechanics how deep will crafting be? Sorry by far not enough information on a crafting system to say its descent and a long term motivation.
The PVP we see in the warzones is what ? Group based? faction based ? Allianz based ? Guild based ? How will PVP effect the world? How do you enter such a warzone and what are the restrictions level wise? How many ppl can play in one warzone at the same time etc... Regarding the PVP we know there will be one - detailed information again ... none or at least not enough given the fact that this is core feature of MMO.
and regarding your little math formula where you point out that they can make 15 mil bucks in one month ... hello the development costs are at about 160 mil USD stated in 2010 at GamesCom and they will have costs for running the servers and paying the staff this game needs to be a longterm success to make profit.
You all make me look like i am actually bashing and hating this game - THATS NOT THE CASE. All i wanna point out that BWs approach to the game is (based on current information) not focused on the system core elements of a MMORPG. And this misfocus might lead to bad game which i don't hope.
So stop treating me like i a hateful bashing forum troll.
This thread was started because of the Question
What makes people so certain BW can't make a good mmorpg?
and all i did was explaining and stating facts why people have a valid and solid reason to have such an opinion!
It's understandable for people to have doubts. But for people that speak like they know for a FACT that the game will fail, or will be a single player RPG online, well they've probably already made up their mind about the game for one reason or another and there probably isn't anything anybody can say or do to change that fact.
Also it depends on who you ask wether it will be a good MMO or not, as everyone has their own opinion of what a good MMO should be like. Some want a sandbox game, some want something like WoW with Star Wars skin, some want something like Mass Effect mixed with Force Unleashed in an MMO setting.
But the thing with TOR that people need to understand is that Bioware isn't just trying to appeal to the MMO crowd. They're trying to draw in all kinds of players, even people that may have never played an MMO in their life. They're trying to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible. Which if you think about it is a very smart move, considering WoW still holds most of the MMO market. Having a single player like experience makes it easier for people that have never played an MMO before to transition into the MMO genre.
Now does that mean that the game will only be mainly single player focused? Well I don't think at this point anybody can say for sure. But out of the things they've confirmed it sounds like they're going to have all of the same things pretty much any other MMO is going to have these days. That is, group quests, PvP, raids and instances, crafting, auction house, player housing, etc. Even with all of that announced though, people still seem to have their doubts. Maybe I'm just missing something, but what other kind of multiplayer activites do people expect to be in an MMO?
Yeah, as Bioware has said, you can play through the game all the way to level cap solo if you wish to do so. But you would be missing out on group quests, open world PvP and Warzones, instances, etc. But that's not the only way to level, infact they've said you can level all the way to cap just doing PvP and warzones if you want to. And really when you think about it, how is that any different from most other MMOS these days where you can solo quest to cap if you wish to do so?
Honestly the addition of an engaging, multi branching story line appeals to me a lot more than running from quest hub to quest hub vacuuming up quests that I never read and grinding out boring kill or fetch quests for 50 levels.
Yes, each class is a completely different story line. And each are said to be around 200 hours long. That's why they've said it's like KOTOR 3,4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10, 11 if you count the world story arc.
I've noticed that the majority of people who complain about or knock the game are hardcores who wanted a return to old school, sandbox gaming. Unhappy that it won't be that, they are lashing out at game and supporters alike. Understanable to some extent, I'm not sure why they invade every single thread about the game nor why they don't move on to more hardcore oriented games like Earthrise or The Secret World or Tera and leave us in peace.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Not only does each class have it's own exclusive story line, there are tons of typical MMO questing on the side and mob camps and dungeons and raids and crafting and mini games and space mini game and so forth. Everything they have revealed so far indicates to me that this game will be releasing with tons of content plus the stroy lines.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I have to point out Eve. Has to be said.
There are 2 types that complains: the old SWG sandbox fans that feel Bioware and Lucas art should make a game for them and fans of other games.'
But there is also a rather large group which includes me that are not sure but a bit worried that Bioware will use instances and cutscenes to a degree that will make the game annoying to play. But that is worries, not facts and we will wait until we tried for the judge if that is true or not.
My opinion is that Bioware deserves a chance, we give it a trial and then decide if it sucks, rocks or are just meh. But I have that opinion for all games.
If I think it sucks I will state it here and why I think it does, same thing if I think it is great. I will not troll it over and over but the point of a forum is discussion. If I think it is meh I will not mention it at all, or possibly in a short review if I have some time over or someone asks me.
Everything in Eve is done with massive numbers of players? Last I checked, there were a lot of miners and crafters who solo as well as those who deliver goods between sectors. Just becasue the main story line is capable of being soloed, doesn't mean you can't invite groups or even raids to do them, nor can you deny that the developers have reiterated many times that this game would have all kinds of typical MMO content, such as side quests, raids, crafting, mini games, mob camps and so forth.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Yet I have seen people just like you, rehash the exact same arguements in every single thread about this game. It's one thing to discuss different points, but you guys go on and on about the exact same thing every time and it's always the same dozen or so posters. You guys always end up derailing a thread and repeat ad nauseum the things you dislike about the game, as if we didn't get it in the first 50 threads you guys responded to.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Yes. Generally. Everything in Eve has the ability to be done with massive numbers of players.
Game. Set. Match.
The difference is that eve is build around the mechanis that allow massive pvp interaction the very concept of the game is designed that way. Eve is a sandbox game and so only provides sand (content) and set of rules and mechanics to allow playing with the sand.
Ofc you can play Solo in EVE not everything hass to be done in the crowd. But the system is sophisticated so it doesnt brake when ppl try to play in a massive way together. Such a sophisticated system needs focus. You cant just make a SPRPG and then convert it to Coop and then to a massive level. You need to focus of the core of the game. And currently the core of TOR seems to be questdriven storyline Coop Modus. And not a MMORPG concept.
People fear Bioware can't make a good mmorpg because they are so good at Single Player Rpg.........they fear it wont feel like an mmo :P
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
The point being that just because TOR can be soloed, doesn't mean it has to be the primary way to play the game. I'm pretty sure people won't be able to solo the raids or certain overland bosses or quests that are designated for groups, which has stated will be in game. I'm tired of people labing this as a single player game when it is emphatically not!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Yet they cannot come up with one single justfiable reason for this fear other than to flat out say that Bioware is lying about their game, because they have stated over and over that this is an MMO, not a single player coop game!
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Then please prove that TOR is a single player coop game, please.
Game. Set. Match.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I don't see him derailing threads at all. Insight from members such as loke666 are always welcome considering they have been enjoying the genre since it's commencement. A little bit of wisdom from long time mmorpg players is nothing but a good thing.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore