You press a button and then a tiny but perceptible time later you do something. Or if you are a caster 2-2.5 seconds later you do. The same criticism was levelled at WAR funnily enough (same engine) combat is not as 'crisp' or 'sharp' as it could be. It is also fairly slow paced (by design presumably).
i completely disagree. Each class is so complex. You never know what you will encounter and the strategy is complex.
Each class has an overwhelming amount of possible spells and abilities. DOTs, HOTs, ect... ect... Blinking melee classes.... Tanking Mages and Priests.... tons of pets.... Ranged classes are very mobile...
What do you want a FPS?? It doesn't get much better in a true MMORPG....
Played all 5 beats and have to say at level 30 the combat is fluid and smooth, and would be willing to say it's much better then most mmo's on the market now...
Anyone that says otherwise either has not played Rift, is just a hater, or never got out of the noob zone...
Loving Rift and will be playing on launch...
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
i completely disagree. Each class is so complex. You never know what you will encounter and the strategy is complex.
Each class has an overwhelming amount of possible spells and abilities. DOTs, HOTs, ect... ect... Blinking melee classes.... Tanking Mages and Priests.... tons of pets.... Ranged classes are very mobile...
What do you want a FPS?? It doesn't get much better in a true MMORPG....
I don't get it, the difference in the combat systems in AoC vs Rift are minimal. Its still the same basic system, and with macros, you can make you combos as complex as you want, you can still pull them off with a single click. Yes, there are games where the tempo of combat is faster, but, that's what global cool downs are for.
If anything, the animation quality probably has the biggest effect on the feel of combat. It doesn't feel quit as intense as some other games I suppose.
Played all 5 beats and have to say at level 30 the combat is fluid and smooth, and would be willing to say it's much better then most mmo's on the market now...
Anyone that says otherwise either has not played Rift, is just a hater, or never got out of the noob zone...
Loving Rift and will be playing on launch...
Oh please, thats all opinion. I have played all 5 betas as well, hoping it will get better, and it s one of the choppiest, boring combat I ve seen in a MMO in a long time. To each their own but to say "anyone who says otherwise...." is pathetic.
I don't get it, the difference in the combat systems in AoC vs Rift are minimal. Its still the same basic system, and with macros, you can make you combos as complex as you want, you can still pull them off with a single click. Yes, there are games where the tempo of combat is faster, but, that's what global cool downs are for.
If anything, the animation quality probably has the biggest effect on the feel of combat. It doesn't feel quit as intense as some other games I suppose.
There are quite a few differences in melee combat between the two games (directional combat, combos, non targeting, fatalities). Casters are pretty much the same though.
i completely disagree. Each class is so complex. You never know what you will encounter and the strategy is complex.
Each class has an overwhelming amount of possible spells and abilities. DOTs, HOTs, ect... ect... Blinking melee classes.... Tanking Mages and Priests.... tons of pets.... Ranged classes are very mobile...
What do you want a FPS?? It doesn't get much better in a true MMORPG....
I have one of each of the four 'archetypes' to somewhere between 27 and 30 and have tried quite a variety of souls some are a bit 'sharper' than others but some are not as 'crisp' as they could be. As I said the same criticism has been levelled at this engine before.
On another note there are some souls that are really lacklustre compared to others and yet others that rely on a few 'good' skills to carry them. It does get better than this and no doubt it will. (Though if the re-worked Cabalist is anything to go by maybe not).
. RIFT is very polished, especially for a beta. You can tell they worked hard on the game, and I hope they have much success. It has an interesting environment with some uniqueness, which is important.
But I strongly disagree with some of the posters here, saying RIFT combat is the same as EQ2 and DAoC etc. Thats simply not the case. Even remotely.
Most (not all) of the abilitys you use, seem the same. The same animation in most cases. I remember getting new abilitys and I used it and was like "...I dont see whats different". "did I just use that?". "what did it do?". You get some new spells and it doesnt "feel" like you did. I'm not being judgemental, just being honest.
To each their own but to say "anyone who says otherwise...." is pathetic.
How can you say "to each their own" and anyone who says otherwise is pathetic in the same sentence? You're saying, you have a right to your opinion, but if it doesn't agree with mine, it's pathetic.
It's nice that in a world of 7 billion people, your opinion is the only one that matters.
I agree that the combat seems slow to me, but that's pretty standard for MMO's except for those which are action based like DCUO. Rift is a pretty looking game, graphics wise, but it doesn't have a lot of innovation in its gameplay. It has some..the soul system is interesting but all in all, it seems like a mixture of all the AAA games that preceded it. That isn't a bad thing, but it does have the feeling of "been there, done that." I haven't seen anything that makes me go wow! that's new and exciting!. Even the rifts are the same as most staged world events in other games, re: the elemental invasions pre-Catacysm in WoW.
Personally, I feel that any sword and sorcery MMO is going to have a difficult time because of the constant comparisons to WoW, EQ and others. For an MMO to be different, it's going to have to be from an entirely different genre. Star Wars, the Old Republic may have a chance because of the subject matter, but Sci-fi has been done in the MMO world already and hasn't been very successful.
Personally, I think an Old West MMO would be an idea worth value, and even though it IS Sci-Fi, I would LOVE to see an MMO based on the old X-Com games or the V TV series. A small group defends the earth vs alien invaders concept. Like SWG, you could have crafters who use captured UFO parts to create new weapons, armor and vehicles. I think exploring crashed UFO battleships where the enemy is hiding and can attack at any moment would create some incredible atmosphere. Kind of the "jump out of your seat" feeling that's really missing from these kind of games. That is one thing I'd really like to see. Hidden enemies. Every MMO shows you the danger from a long way off. Maybe make a real FPS MMO where you can't see hundreds of yards around you by zooming out. There are a lot of things that could be done differently if only a company was willing to take the chance.
Unfortunately, with the development costs of new MMO's, I'm afraid that what we are going to see is a lot of clones using a tried and true system with little or no innovation beyond some new graphics or new storyline. Anything else would be too much of a financial risk for the suits.
Anyone that says otherwise either has not played Rift, is just a hater, or never got out of the noob zone...
In that one sentence, you completely trivialized anything negative that a person can say about Rift, no matter how valid it is. We all know that you're a fan but boy, do you have to make it so obvious?
Originally posted by Cody1174 i completely disagree. Each class is so complex. You never know what you will encounter and the strategy is complex. Each class has an overwhelming amount of possible spells and abilities. DOTs, HOTs, ect... ect... Blinking melee classes.... Tanking Mages and Priests.... tons of pets.... Ranged classes are very mobile...
What do you want a FPS?? It doesn't get much better in a true MMORPG....
Cody of course we all want proper combat in MMOs now, the majority of us are sick and tired of EQ clones with the shitty point and click combat. The developers justhave to stop making such trash.
It has taken some indi developers to break the mould and make try FPS combat into MMOs. Once you play proper FPS combat in an MMO you can never go back to the mindless boring combat that you find in last generation games like Rift, WAR or WOW.
i completely disagree. Each class is so complex. You never know what you will encounter and the strategy is complex.
Each class has an overwhelming amount of possible spells and abilities. DOTs, HOTs, ect... ect... Blinking melee classes.... Tanking Mages and Priests.... tons of pets.... Ranged classes are very mobile...
What do you want a FPS?? It doesn't get much better in a true MMORPG....
Cody of course we all want proper combat in MMOs now, the majority of us are sick and tired of EQ clones with the shitty point and click combat. The developers justhave to stop making such trash.
It has taken some indi developers to break the mould and make try FPS combat into MMOs. Once you play proper FPS combat in an MMO you can never go back to the mindless boring combat that you find in last generation games like Rift, WAR or WOW.
Depends on the player really.
I enjoy FPS's but not in an MMORPG. FPS games are great for the quick pickup pvp play (like TF2) or the deep action of a solo game. Some people might enjoy twitchy style combat in an MMO while the same amount of people might not. There is a true difference between an MMORPG (the EQ style gameplay) and an MMOFPS (twitch style play). Each has their own audience.
Problem with MMOFPS's is that many dev companies don't see them as viable atm due to the amount of players. Indy developers will always be the guinea pigs for innovation. If say Aventurine/Icarus could have proved to the world that a FPS MMO was in high demand then you would see more and more of them being made by the bigtime dev houses. Sadly these big companies have to bend to the investors wills. Investors don't care that Aventurine and Icarus were working on tiny budgets or being made by very green developers. All they see is that they had a certain playstyle and didn't manage to get more than a few thousand players, where as games like EQ, WoW, etc netted more than tripple the amount. Numbers = Money to these people and thats all that matters.
So until a developer can make a FPS MMO that can break into the couple hundred thousand concurrent player ranges, you won't see too many of those games being made.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
If you can't replicate WoW or at least EQ2 combat (there are some major differences) why do you think you have MMO? You are doing five (or was it seven) year old stuff but worse than F2Ps.
You take one look at Rift and realize they have not taken one lesson from WoW, besides what every kid sees on the surface.
I don't get it, the difference in the combat systems in AoC vs Rift are minimal. Its still the same basic system, and with macros, you can make you combos as complex as you want, you can still pull them off with a single click. Yes, there are games where the tempo of combat is faster, but, that's what global cool downs are for.
If anything, the animation quality probably has the biggest effect on the feel of combat. It doesn't feel quit as intense as some other games I suppose.
Here, a repost of the most obvious things that I find boring and wrong with Rift compared to AoC. And by the way, your argument about macros is not valid, at least not in PVP world where every melee PVPer who tried to use them ended up dead because you have to TIME your strikes perfectly in order to damage an opponent in AoC. If you don't, the system will register miss and your combo will be performed without damagin an opponent.
As DW rogue in Rift who played AoC assasin I missed:
-soul fragments
-shield dancing : WHAT A BORING experience is PVP without you and opponent trying to hit each other in the back. I mean GOD ... I never though I would miss these mechanics so much.
-seperate CD's - who in the name of god made global CD? When I use an attack in Rift everything I have goes on CD (yes, even the backpack if I saw correct)
When people mention that RIfts combat is boring, they are simply stating that the combat is standard mmorpg combat. If you find the combat in typical mmorpgs boring, nothing about rifs combat will excite or entertain you. I for one can enjoy mmorpg combat, and rift does deliver that in a polished manner.
Its only boring because its the same mechanics that have been around since EQ, and it does feel familair and easy to grasp if your an mmorpg veteran.
A lot of people were expecting next-gen everything with rift. rift is turning out to be just another well made and polished standard affair mmorpg, which dissapoints those looking for a breath of fresh air and something new and exciting mechanics wise.
The combat doesnt suck, its just not ground breaking.
Stiff... I'm not too impressed with the next gen combat at all.
I'm playing DC Universe this week instead of playing Rift.
I logged into Rift for 20 minutes, played and promptly logged out.
Rift is a "better" game, but DC Universe is more "fun", DCU movement and combat feels more fluid and alive.
Look closely and you will realise that the combat in Rift is about the same as the combat in every single other popular MMOG out there: WoW, Shaiya, WAR. I can think of hundreds of more games with exactly the same or very similar combat concepts if you give me time.
Stiff... I'm not too impressed with the next gen combat at all.
I'm playing DC Universe this week instead of playing Rift.
I logged into Rift for 20 minutes, played and promptly logged out.
Rift is a "better" game, but DC Universe is more "fun", DCU movement and combat feels more fluid and alive.
Look closely and you will realise that the combat in Rift is about the same as the combat in every single other popular MMOG out there: WoW, Shaiya, WAR. I can think of hundreds of more games with exactly the same or very similar combat concepts if you give me time.
Thats the problem, TRION couldn't see fit to even try to change the combat in any way so that it is different. It's just the same ol' same ol' and not a lot of people want that.
I think anyone that actually thinks Rift will be a massive long term success obviously didn't play Warhammer. Everything about this games scream Warhammer and at the end of the day its just bad wow.
I admit combat can improve a lot. But I love fighting npcs, their movements are one of the best I saw in my life.
Did you see guys the dead rogues in the guardians starting area? or the skeletons movinf their loose jaws? what about those demon-like humanoids that suicide themselves commiting a sort of hara-kiri (silverwood) just hilarious.
To each their own but to say "anyone who says otherwise...." is pathetic.
How can you say "to each their own" and anyone who says otherwise is pathetic in the same sentence? You're saying, you have a right to your opinion, but if it doesn't agree with mine, it's pathetic.
He is saying anyone is welcome to have their own opinion (to each their own) but critisising the other poster for denying that basic right ("anyone that says otherwise"). That's why it's in quotes.
Cody of course we all want proper combat in MMOs now, the majority of us are sick and tired of EQ clones with the shitty point and click combat. The developers justhave to stop making such trash.
It has taken some indi developers to break the mould and make try FPS combat into MMOs. Once you play proper FPS combat in an MMO you can never go back to the mindless boring combat that you find in last generation games like Rift, WAR or WOW.
Just out of interest what are you playing now APB, Darkfall, something else? Whatever it is I am pretty sure it won't support your argument "the majority want".
Cody of course we all want proper combat in MMOs now, the majority of us are sick and tired of EQ clones with the shitty point and click combat. The developers justhave to stop making such trash.
It has taken some indi developers to break the mould and make try FPS combat into MMOs. Once you play proper FPS combat in an MMO you can never go back to the mindless boring combat that you find in last generation games like Rift, WAR or WOW.
It's posts like this that make me realise how little point there is in reason and debate.
Moving on, I just hit 24 in Rift and did some Warfronts. The combat is a lot of fun, in my opinion. I personally don't want an FPS style MMO. To each their own. Rift is familiar, but also new. I think we'll find on launch day that it's just what the doctor ordered. Love it or hate it it's going to sell very well.
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks ~ WC
Comments
You press a button and then a tiny but perceptible time later you do something. Or if you are a caster 2-2.5 seconds later you do. The same criticism was levelled at WAR funnily enough (same engine) combat is not as 'crisp' or 'sharp' as it could be. It is also fairly slow paced (by design presumably).
i completely disagree. Each class is so complex. You never know what you will encounter and the strategy is complex.
Each class has an overwhelming amount of possible spells and abilities. DOTs, HOTs, ect... ect... Blinking melee classes.... Tanking Mages and Priests.... tons of pets.... Ranged classes are very mobile...
What do you want a FPS?? It doesn't get much better in a true MMORPG....
Played all 5 beats and have to say at level 30 the combat is fluid and smooth, and would be willing to say it's much better then most mmo's on the market now...
Anyone that says otherwise either has not played Rift, is just a hater, or never got out of the noob zone...
Loving Rift and will be playing on launch...
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Try AoC
I don't get it, the difference in the combat systems in AoC vs Rift are minimal. Its still the same basic system, and with macros, you can make you combos as complex as you want, you can still pull them off with a single click. Yes, there are games where the tempo of combat is faster, but, that's what global cool downs are for.
If anything, the animation quality probably has the biggest effect on the feel of combat. It doesn't feel quit as intense as some other games I suppose.
Oh please, thats all opinion. I have played all 5 betas as well, hoping it will get better, and it s one of the choppiest, boring combat I ve seen in a MMO in a long time. To each their own but to say "anyone who says otherwise...." is pathetic.
There are quite a few differences in melee combat between the two games (directional combat, combos, non targeting, fatalities). Casters are pretty much the same though.
I have one of each of the four 'archetypes' to somewhere between 27 and 30 and have tried quite a variety of souls some are a bit 'sharper' than others but some are not as 'crisp' as they could be. As I said the same criticism has been levelled at this engine before.
On another note there are some souls that are really lacklustre compared to others and yet others that rely on a few 'good' skills to carry them. It does get better than this and no doubt it will. (Though if the re-worked Cabalist is anything to go by maybe not).
. RIFT is very polished, especially for a beta. You can tell they worked hard on the game, and I hope they have much success. It has an interesting environment with some uniqueness, which is important.
But I strongly disagree with some of the posters here, saying RIFT combat is the same as EQ2 and DAoC etc. Thats simply not the case. Even remotely.
Most (not all) of the abilitys you use, seem the same. The same animation in most cases. I remember getting new abilitys and I used it and was like "...I dont see whats different". "did I just use that?". "what did it do?". You get some new spells and it doesnt "feel" like you did. I'm not being judgemental, just being honest.
How can you say "to each their own" and anyone who says otherwise is pathetic in the same sentence? You're saying, you have a right to your opinion, but if it doesn't agree with mine, it's pathetic.
It's nice that in a world of 7 billion people, your opinion is the only one that matters.
I agree that the combat seems slow to me, but that's pretty standard for MMO's except for those which are action based like DCUO. Rift is a pretty looking game, graphics wise, but it doesn't have a lot of innovation in its gameplay. It has some..the soul system is interesting but all in all, it seems like a mixture of all the AAA games that preceded it. That isn't a bad thing, but it does have the feeling of "been there, done that." I haven't seen anything that makes me go wow! that's new and exciting!. Even the rifts are the same as most staged world events in other games, re: the elemental invasions pre-Catacysm in WoW.
Personally, I feel that any sword and sorcery MMO is going to have a difficult time because of the constant comparisons to WoW, EQ and others. For an MMO to be different, it's going to have to be from an entirely different genre. Star Wars, the Old Republic may have a chance because of the subject matter, but Sci-fi has been done in the MMO world already and hasn't been very successful.
Personally, I think an Old West MMO would be an idea worth value, and even though it IS Sci-Fi, I would LOVE to see an MMO based on the old X-Com games or the V TV series. A small group defends the earth vs alien invaders concept. Like SWG, you could have crafters who use captured UFO parts to create new weapons, armor and vehicles. I think exploring crashed UFO battleships where the enemy is hiding and can attack at any moment would create some incredible atmosphere. Kind of the "jump out of your seat" feeling that's really missing from these kind of games. That is one thing I'd really like to see. Hidden enemies. Every MMO shows you the danger from a long way off. Maybe make a real FPS MMO where you can't see hundreds of yards around you by zooming out. There are a lot of things that could be done differently if only a company was willing to take the chance.
Unfortunately, with the development costs of new MMO's, I'm afraid that what we are going to see is a lot of clones using a tried and true system with little or no innovation beyond some new graphics or new storyline. Anything else would be too much of a financial risk for the suits.
In that one sentence, you completely trivialized anything negative that a person can say about Rift, no matter how valid it is. We all know that you're a fan but boy, do you have to make it so obvious?
Cody of course we all want proper combat in MMOs now, the majority of us are sick and tired of EQ clones with the shitty point and click combat. The developers justhave to stop making such trash.
It has taken some indi developers to break the mould and make try FPS combat into MMOs. Once you play proper FPS combat in an MMO you can never go back to the mindless boring combat that you find in last generation games like Rift, WAR or WOW.
Depends on the player really.
I enjoy FPS's but not in an MMORPG. FPS games are great for the quick pickup pvp play (like TF2) or the deep action of a solo game. Some people might enjoy twitchy style combat in an MMO while the same amount of people might not. There is a true difference between an MMORPG (the EQ style gameplay) and an MMOFPS (twitch style play). Each has their own audience.
Problem with MMOFPS's is that many dev companies don't see them as viable atm due to the amount of players. Indy developers will always be the guinea pigs for innovation. If say Aventurine/Icarus could have proved to the world that a FPS MMO was in high demand then you would see more and more of them being made by the bigtime dev houses. Sadly these big companies have to bend to the investors wills. Investors don't care that Aventurine and Icarus were working on tiny budgets or being made by very green developers. All they see is that they had a certain playstyle and didn't manage to get more than a few thousand players, where as games like EQ, WoW, etc netted more than tripple the amount. Numbers = Money to these people and thats all that matters.
So until a developer can make a FPS MMO that can break into the couple hundred thousand concurrent player ranges, you won't see too many of those games being made.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
If you can't replicate WoW or at least EQ2 combat (there are some major differences) why do you think you have MMO? You are doing five (or was it seven) year old stuff but worse than F2Ps.
You take one look at Rift and realize they have not taken one lesson from WoW, besides what every kid sees on the surface.
Here, a repost of the most obvious things that I find boring and wrong with Rift compared to AoC. And by the way, your argument about macros is not valid, at least not in PVP world where every melee PVPer who tried to use them ended up dead because you have to TIME your strikes perfectly in order to damage an opponent in AoC. If you don't, the system will register miss and your combo will be performed without damagin an opponent.
As DW rogue in Rift who played AoC assasin I missed:
-soul fragments
-shield dancing : WHAT A BORING experience is PVP without you and opponent trying to hit each other in the back. I mean GOD ... I never though I would miss these mechanics so much.
-seperate CD's - who in the name of god made global CD? When I use an attack in Rift everything I have goes on CD (yes, even the backpack if I saw correct)
I think the DCUO fanboys stumbled into the wrong forums...
When people mention that RIfts combat is boring, they are simply stating that the combat is standard mmorpg combat. If you find the combat in typical mmorpgs boring, nothing about rifs combat will excite or entertain you. I for one can enjoy mmorpg combat, and rift does deliver that in a polished manner.
Its only boring because its the same mechanics that have been around since EQ, and it does feel familair and easy to grasp if your an mmorpg veteran.
A lot of people were expecting next-gen everything with rift. rift is turning out to be just another well made and polished standard affair mmorpg, which dissapoints those looking for a breath of fresh air and something new and exciting mechanics wise.
The combat doesnt suck, its just not ground breaking.
Look closely and you will realise that the combat in Rift is about the same as the combat in every single other popular MMOG out there: WoW, Shaiya, WAR. I can think of hundreds of more games with exactly the same or very similar combat concepts if you give me time.
Thats the problem, TRION couldn't see fit to even try to change the combat in any way so that it is different. It's just the same ol' same ol' and not a lot of people want that.
I think anyone that actually thinks Rift will be a massive long term success obviously didn't play Warhammer. Everything about this games scream Warhammer and at the end of the day its just bad wow.
I admit combat can improve a lot. But I love fighting npcs, their movements are one of the best I saw in my life.
Did you see guys the dead rogues in the guardians starting area? or the skeletons movinf their loose jaws? what about those demon-like humanoids that suicide themselves commiting a sort of hara-kiri (silverwood) just hilarious.
He is saying anyone is welcome to have their own opinion (to each their own) but critisising the other poster for denying that basic right ("anyone that says otherwise"). That's why it's in quotes.
Just out of interest what are you playing now APB, Darkfall, something else? Whatever it is I am pretty sure it won't support your argument "the majority want".
It's posts like this that make me realise how little point there is in reason and debate.
Moving on, I just hit 24 in Rift and did some Warfronts. The combat is a lot of fun, in my opinion. I personally don't want an FPS style MMO. To each their own. Rift is familiar, but also new. I think we'll find on launch day that it's just what the doctor ordered. Love it or hate it it's going to sell very well.
You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks
~ WC
Rift could be a great game if it wasn't that slow paced. But for me it's just boring to play.