The Combat Gameplay in Rift is major disappointment. Its not fun.

Zippy

If your looking for an innovative different combat system then MMOs are likely not for you.  The problem with innovation in MMO combat is it ends up being thoughtless and simplistic like AoC's follow the arrow combat system.  But then again games like AoC are made for a much younger audience that does not have the attention span or desire to think when they play games.

The problem with a game like Rift's combat system is not the lack of innovation but that combat is rather simplified.  Classes are pretty simplistic and do nto feel fully fleshed out,  They do not offer a lot to do in combat.  There is no aditional group synergy mechanic to combat that can use weakneeses or some other mechanic to amplify damage, buffs or heals.  There is very few debuffs, combat buffs, and actions that one can do in combat.  The reactive and positional combat is limited as well.  It could be so much more complex and fun.  But they don't push it because of the casual crowd that cannot understand anything that is not spoon fed to them.  Maybe 6 or 12 months after release the classes and combat will expand out a bit as the casuals leave and the games revenue source becomes more dependent on long term subs.

Althiough I am bit lukewarm about the classes and lack of complexity in combat I am quite exceited about Rift's endgame.  Not only are they saying it will offer mroe endgame content than any previous MMO with 10 expert dungeons, expert Rifts, Raid Rifts and 2 raid dungeons at release but I expect the encounetrs to be challenging.  Given the devs teams roots in EQ, Eq2 and Vanguard and the number of hardcore raiders on the dev team I expetc to see some really good expert dungeon and raid encounters.   While combat may not be that complex it does not mean they cannot make complex raid and group encounters.  Which I am quite optimistic about.

silent-jones

Originally posted by Interesting

The Combat Gameplay in Rift is major disappointment. Its not fun.

 

Its simply not fun. What a shame.

You are right. Everything else blows, but the fights are boring, no styles, no acrobatics, no heroic movement in any way. How could they integrate so poor fights in such a greate game.

Disappointing.

pierth

Originally posted by Zippy

If your looking for an innovative different combat system then MMOs are likely not for you.  The problem with innovation in MMO combat is it ends up being thoughtless and simplistic like AoC's follow the arrow combat system.  But then again games like AoC are made for a much younger audience that does not have the attention span or desire to think when they play games.

The problem with a game like Rift's combat system is not the lack of innovation but that combat is rather simplified.  Classes are pretty simplistic and do nto feel fully fleshed out,  They do not offer a lot to do in combat.  There is no aditional group sysnergy mechanic to combat that can use weakneeses or some other mechanic to amplify damage, buffs or heals.  There is very few debuffs, combat buffs, and actions that one can do in combat.  The reactive and positional combat is limited as well.  It could be so much more complex and fun.  But they don't push it because of the casual crowd that cannot understand anything that is not spoon fed to them.  Maybe 6 or 12 months after release the classes and combat will expand out a bit as the casuals leave and the games revenue source becomes more dependent on long term subs.

Althiough I am bit lukewarm about the classes and lalck of complexity in combat I am quite exceited about Rift's endgame.  Not only are they saying it will offer mroe endgame content than any previous MMO with 10 expert dungeons, expert Rifts, Raid Rifts and 2 raid dungeons at release but I expect the encounetrs to be challenging.  Given the devs teams roots in EQ, Eq2 and Vanguard and the number of hardcore raiders on the dev team I expetc to see some really good expert dungeon and raid encounters.   While combat may not be that complex it does not mean they cannot make complex raid and group encounters.  Which I am quite optimistic about.

I'd hoped that for combat they'd have combos for groups like LoTRO's fellowship maneuvers and moreso FFXI's skillchains as well, otherwise so far (only had time to get to level 11 so if I'm wrong about something please correct me) the combat seems really reminicent of CoH where you just spam skills as they become available (same with version 1 of WoW's DKs).

 

silent-jones

And compared to Lineage2 or Aion every animation looks boring. So better not comparing.

Zippy

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by Zippy

If your looking for an innovative different combat system then MMOs are likely not for you.  The problem with innovation in MMO combat is it ends up being thoughtless and simplistic like AoC's follow the arrow combat system.  But then again games like AoC are made for a much younger audience that does not have the attention span or desire to think when they play games.

The problem with a game like Rift's combat system is not the lack of innovation but that combat is rather simplified.  Classes are pretty simplistic and do not feel fully fleshed out,  They do not offer a lot to do in combat.  There is no aditional group synergy mechanic to combat that can use weakneeses or some other mechanic to amplify damage, buffs or heals.  There is very few debuffs, combat buffs, and actions that one can do in combat.  The reactive and positional combat is limited as well.  It could be so much more complex and fun.  But they don't push it because of the casual crowd that cannot understand anything that is not spoon fed to them.  Maybe 6 or 12 months after release the classes and combat will expand out a bit as the casuals leave and the games revenue source becomes more dependent on long term subs.

Althiough I am bit lukewarm about the classes and lalck of complexity in combat I am quite exceited about Rift's endgame.  Not only are they saying it will offer mroe endgame content than any previous MMO with 10 expert dungeons, expert Rifts, Raid Rifts and 2 raid dungeons at release but I expect the encounetrs to be challenging.  Given the devs teams roots in EQ, Eq2 and Vanguard and the number of hardcore raiders on the dev team I expetc to see some really good expert dungeon and raid encounters.   While combat may not be that complex it does not mean they cannot make complex raid and group encounters.  Which I am quite optimistic about.

I'd hoped that for combat they'd have combos for groups like LoTRO's fellowship maneuvers and moreso FFXI's skillchains as well, otherwise so far (only had time to get to level 11 so if I'm wrong about something please correct me) the combat seems really reminicent of CoH where you just spam skills as they become available (same with version 1 of WoW's DKs).

 

I agree there is no group skillchains like FF11, EQ2, LOTRO or even Vanguard's unfinished weakness system.  Which I agree this is a shame and one of the reasons in my post above why combat lacks complexity.  But again I would argue the reason the game lacks complexity in combat is that the devs are being overly conservating trying to not make things to complex for the short term casual players.  But once the game is live for 6-12 months core and hardcore players will make up a bigger portion of their expected revenue than the release box sale casual players.  Hopefully as the game matures they will develop combat and classes to add mroe complexity. 

One of the great things about Rift is it is being built to grow horizontally.  Most games release with big unfinished systems that then have to be fixed over years.  Rift's philosophy is much different releasing a polished narrow game that can grow outward after release with new zones, new souls, new races, new continents,new features and hopefully more involved combat and gameplay.

Interesting

My specific complain is not regarding graphics or the animations. My complaint about combat is regarding gameplay, how you control your character, what are you allowed to do, how you do it.

To me it doesnt matter how good animations or graphics are. What matters is how much in control of the character I am, if I can run, move, strafe, jump, roll, dash, manually block, parry, aim each attack, if its a slash, a pierce, from wich direction it comes from...

They wont sell me a game where the combat has automatic targetting and "magic/attacks" is nothing but one click of the mouse, or pressing a single hotkey.

Its not about animations or graphics anymore. Its about timing, distance, reflexes, aiming, precision, multiple movement options and absolutelly no automatic targets, dice rolls defining hits or misses, lack of colision detection, hit detection, physics.

Its no batter than playing a crappy roguelike in ASCII.

 

Good examples of what Im talking about are Mount and Blade (if you dont know it dont bother repplying), Vindictus (you should check it out, a huge step into the right direction), Darkfall, Gunz Online, Chronicles of Spellborn and few other games had a few elements in their combat that would be worth mentioning such as Neo Steam, Age of Conan, Rakion, etc... Anything that involves keyboard and mouse in an intense coordinated/complex (variety) way. Like how Freelancer gameplay was compared to EVE Online combat. You cant make a game in 2011 with EVE combat and expect people saying your combat is awesome and exciting, it would be a major disappointment. Thats how RIFT stands in my book.

I want to be in control of my character. Duck, strafe, lean back, sideways, rolls, jumps, dashes and those movements actually define wether I went out of the way of the attack or blast or not. When i attack, I want to aim my shots. I want to be able to use terrain at my advantage, move around in different ways, jumping side to side like in Max Payne or Hidden and Dangerous Deluxe, be able to parry attacks with my melee weapon like in Gunz, be able to control exactly where each and everyone of my melee attacks hit like I can in Mount and Blade, using movement, momentum...  The kind of freedom and control one gets from Unreal Tournament, or Tribes... Leap around, scalate, jump from objects, Throw objects, attack with objects, block with objects, everything controlled by my two hands on keyboard and mouse. Me in total control, instead of automatic targetting and choosing a hotkey for a skill and waiting the delay, then pressing another key, while watching, waiting, everything standing still, completelly boring, unrealistic, its like watching a turnbased game in fast forward... animations over and over. In Rift it looks like all characters have shit in their pants, while being paralised on the ground.

Statically built animations? No way, every slightly movement of my mouse and keyboard will DEFINE dinamically that animation. No cheap ass solutions, cookie cutter old designs that are unacceptable, they put no effort, no thought, no creativity, no technology into it, its not fun, therefore they dont deserve the cake.

All their investment is worthless if they cant provide a top of the line combat gameplay where the player, with his two hands, is in complete control.

Instead of evolving, they decide to do the same. They are many years late for that now. All their money and investment went into things people cant stand anymore, not good enough, try harder.

Thats why it will go down in history as the game that released in 2011 whose combat was a major disappointment, therefore not being fun, and people shouldnt bother with it, so the developers take a direct hit and learn their lesson, whoever tries the same thing will get the same answer from players, untill they have no alternative except to work their asses into the best combat gameplay they could assemble at that given time and then we will praise them and give them our monies...

Not Rift, Rift is a piece of cr*p. The developer on the interviews saying how awesome everything on their game was... "Yeah dude, but look at your combat system, it sucks, why bother if you are going to ship the game with it" You are not aware of it? Thats your fault, you should be aware that at this point in time your current combat system is not going to cut it.

Sovrath

Originally posted by Interesting

My specific complain is not regarding graphics or the animations. My complaint about combat is regarding gameplay, how you control your character, what are you allowed to do, how you do it.

Your post...

So you are essentially looking for fps combat.

It's interesting (no pun intended) how there is an influx of players who are really looking for fps combat in these games and makes me wonder if they are part of the new influx of mmo gamers or if some whether some typical mmo gamers have changed their tastes?

To the point of your post, Rift is no different than wow, Aion, LOTRO or any other game out there that utilizes tab targeting and skills.

There might be subtle differences but that's about it.

 

edit: and i'll add that it's a shame that EVE's combat couldn't be made today and be successful. Though thinking about that I will offer that it would be successful, just not with the fps crowd.

That really is what this is coming down to isn't it?

Liltawen

I'm doing a Blade Dancer and I think it's fun and active. Tried a Cabalist which was a bit boring.

-all depends on your Class I guess.

Going to it from DCUo is a bit jarring-but going to anything from DCUo would be.

micona

Combat is fun , it's nothing we havent seen before but i know that , is combat the most important thing for me ,not really 

i played a champion this week and though is was really well done ; the charge and kick are great .

- you like this game you play it , if you dont like it then dont care for it and move on with your life .

cheers

Sovrath

Originally posted by monoth

Originally posted by clarkykentt

Originally posted by Interesting

The Combat Gameplay in Rift is major disappointment. Its not fun.

 

Its simply not fun. What a shame.

Why do people feel the need to post crap like this?  If you don't like it, don't play the game.  See how simple that is?  Now, if you were to post something useful like reasons as to WHY you feel this way, then your post might have a bit of validity.  Damn attention whores are everywhere these days.

1) Rough movement animations

2) Repetitive Combat Animations

3) Spam the same 4-5 buttons continuously (2-3 buttons during levels 15 and below)

4) Without Auto Approach makes it really hard during chaotic Rift's with lots of people, hard to find your target and keep in range

5) Bland gear graphics and lack of models

I'm guessing they ran out of funds so they skipped perfecting things like Animations, Character Creation and Gear Models....

1, I don't think they are rought at all. When I jump from a height and i land and roll and then jump to my feet I would say that was pretty "not rough".

2, I have seen some of this for some of the lower lvls in some classes but don't know how much they change as more skills are added.

3, as opposed to o any other game? I mean, I did load up wow last night and had a whole 2 buttons to use just like Rifts. But if you look at the bottom of the skill tree in Rift you get more skills as you level in that tree. So there is the possibility of more.

6, actually some are really great and some are horrible. I was given a nifty looking shield, same stats as what appeared in my inventory so the possibility of better looking gear is there. Still, if I was a mage I would be lamenting my ugly brown frock.

The character creation could be a bit more robust.

Torgrim

IMO best combat animation to date is AoC best combat and most fun is Vanguard.

skoupidi

Originally posted by maitrader

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by pierth

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by Swanea

Yeah, too bad it's not an fps right? :P

Yeah to bad people got allready bored of the 10 year old combat system.

 

Really, because there's a game with almost the exact same type of combat that has 12 million (allegedly) who disagree.

Just because people are playing wow doesnt mean they enjoy its combat.I am one of those.

At least wow has better and more variation in animations than rift.

That doesn't even make any sense- are you saying there are players in WoW that don't enjoy it's content but enjoy sitting back and watching the animations? Are they casting on themselves? Just standing in cities watching the night elf bounce or naked toons dancing on mailboxes?

 

It seems to me that if people are playing a MMO that is entirely based around combat that they are probably okay with the combat. Ockham's Razor

It makes sense.I don't know about you but in rift the jumping and movement of most races felt wrong to me. Also, rift has the worse holster/unholster weapon animation i have ever seen(check it out yourself, youre going to get disapointed). Not to mention the underwater jumping animation that rift(2011 AAA next generation mmo) has. I can just keep going on but i dont wont to trashtalk the game any further.It does most things well, but don't blame the people that are tired of the same things and want something new and more fun to play.

Do you have like 100m laying around? if so, maybe you and others should stop being "disappointed" with how awesome Rift is, and make your on MMO... I am sure your MMO will definitely be the WoW killer ... lmao

I dont have that kind of money.But i was lucky to play tera and realise how poorly done rift is compared to tera. Good luck with your outdated mmo.

skoupidi

Originally posted by Williac

Originally posted by Interesting

Gave the game another chance today... but cant stand it.  Had to uninstall. The Rifts idea are cool, but ultimatelly the main thing about the game, its core fundaments and design are offensive to my intelect. Its an obvious attempt to fool people into buying what is, no matter how I look at it, a bad product.

Its just bland, boring, old, cookie cutter, empty, repetitive, uninteractive, unresponsive, uninteresting combat...

Only two posters so far said they found it awesome and exciting, I respect their opinion, and like two people were like "its like everythign else" to excuse it, but 90% of the people who posted here so far had expressed their disappointments.

What matters is wether the majority of people find it fun or not.

To me and the majority, its simply not fun, not entertaining, not worth a purchase, not worth a subscription, false advertisement, hyped empty product.

As consumers those people witnessed this phenomn multiple times before with other games and learned how to evaluate a product for what it is.

Seriously, what did the developers from Rift expected? Did they thought we would swallow that poor/unfun combat?

At first it looked like this game would be halfway decent, but no. Now we all know it for what it is.

 

I respect your opinion and it's always sad to see a gamer unsatisfied with a game. However, you have no evidence to support you claim regarding the majority's expereince of this game other than this thread which is hardly valid.  False advertisment? Please provide valid evidence to this claim..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldI3ypm1gHg

tabarjack

Oh. what a surprise, the same guys who did WAR made an MMO with the same kind of combat.

Are the ground textures still as terrible?

Does the game still constantly do nonstop HD I/O?

I hope they at least improved the 2 above points. Maybe its why they ran out of time to actually do combat animations.

Lypheus

I understand RIFT != DCUO, so don't get me wrong I'm not expecting dwarves in tights combo firing kryptonite out their butts to down super dragons or anything .

That being said, the "you can't compare" thing is a bit old.

Actually I CAN compare two games any way I like.  While that may not follow a scientific method for ensuring fairness and completeness, it does come into play with something far more significant to me: FUN.

In Shadowbane when I stood on the town walls and watched a seige roll in or managed to ninja the commander rune and make it to a safehold to aution it for a cool 1M as half a guild chased me - that was some serious fun.

In SWG (pre-lame) having the ability to work with my guild to harvest resources and literally build our city ground up - that was fun.

In DCUO having several dynamics to combat that just "click" and make sense, so that fast action still retains some semblence of strategy/tactics while not requiring macros - that is fun.

OTOH playing RIFT and landing smack in the middle of what looks like an over zealous WoW clone humped DAOC and retched out a piece of Tabula Rasa .... all wrapped in a button mash clone (level 15 shaman and I have 3 different mash attacks ... really?) ... well excuse my lack of excitement.

So I will compare RIFT and I will compare each aspect of what it offers to what I liked best in each of my previous MMO experiences .. and guess what?  I'll expect that if the next MMO wants to keep my $ then they better scratch more than one itch.

Darkfall came close for me, I just don't have nor want to tie myself to a game every waking hour to feel capable enough to have some fun.

What I've noticed with DCUO is I step into the game, beat the heck out of some mobs, have some really cool pvp engagements and I'm having fun.  I'm not stopping all the time to try and mouse over ctrl-click loot or mucking around with kludgy and completely unecessary gaming mechanics - many of which RIFT seemed to inherit from it's MMO inspiration.  The other thing I've noticed is that the way quest lines are presented and kept short-mid length, it actually makes the whole storyline interesting and immersive for me, that's saying a lot coming from a true min/max style of player - I could typically care less what the NPC text says but somehow in DCUO it works ... maybe it's the cut scenes and focused approach they take *shrug*.

All that said, I'll give RIFT a good shake here and try it out.  Who knows, maybe level 16,20,whatever things will change and i'll be faced with a riveting combat experience - I've bought the game already, I'm willing to try and hoping I'll be pleasantly surprised come release date.

 

TheLizardbones

---

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by Williac

Originally posted by Interesting

Gave the game another chance today... but cant stand it.  Had to uninstall. The Rifts idea are cool, but ultimatelly the main thing about the game, its core fundaments and design are offensive to my intelect. Its an obvious attempt to fool people into buying what is, no matter how I look at it, a bad product.
Its just bland, boring, old, cookie cutter, empty, repetitive, uninteractive, unresponsive, uninteresting combat...
Only two posters so far said they found it awesome and exciting, I respect their opinion, and like two people were like "its like everythign else" to excuse it, but 90% of the people who posted here so far had expressed their disappointments.
What matters is wether the majority of people find it fun or not.
To me and the majority, its simply not fun, not entertaining, not worth a purchase, not worth a subscription, false advertisement, hyped empty product.
As consumers those people witnessed this phenomn multiple times before with other games and learned how to evaluate a product for what it is.
Seriously, what did the developers from Rift expected? Did they thought we would swallow that poor/unfun combat?
At first it looked like this game would be halfway decent, but no. Now we all know it for what it is.

 
I respect your opinion and it's always sad to see a gamer unsatisfied with a game. However, you have no evidence to support you claim regarding the majority's expereince of this game other than this thread which is hardly valid.  False advertisment? Please provide valid evidence to this claim..

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldI3ypm1gHg

---

Where is the majority again? More people on Facebook 'Like' Rift than have even viewed that video on Youtube.

skoupidi

False advertisment? Please provide valid evidence to this claim..

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldI3ypm1gHg

---

Where is the majority again? More people on Facebook 'Like' Rift than have even viewed that video on Youtube.

 

So you say that people should like the game, because every random guy in facebook likes it too?

ianicus

I dont mind the combat to be honest, I dont need my character lunging around doing weird flips and flourishes, which by the way is unrealistic and overly dramatic.

DLangley

Please remember to respect other user's opinions even they are very different than your own. However :

Trolling

• 
  Posting excessive negative comments or baiting others to respond in a negative manner is considered trolling on the MMORPG.com forums.
  
  For example: If there is one game that you did not enjoy, voicing your opinion is encouraged. Posting this opinion in every thread concerning that game to the point that it disrupts all other conversation is not tolerated.

ianicus

Originally posted by DLangley

Please remember to respect other user's opinions even they are very different than your own. However :

 

 

Trolling

• 
  Posting excessive negative comments or baiting others to respond in a negative manner is considered trolling on the MMORPG.com forums.
  
  For example: If there is one game that you did not enjoy, voicing your opinion is encouraged. Posting this opinion in every thread concerning that game to the point that it disrupts all other conversation is not tolerated.

 

 Love the avatar pic!! go manchester!!

Zookz1

I don't feel completely in control of my character. Something just seems... off to me. That said, I like Rift, but it's very much standard fare. It's just like vanilla WoW; nothing but kill/fetch quests, a few instances, and a few BG's. The soul system is the best part of the game, but that will be boiled down into the "best" specs in a few months. I really see no reason to play this game unless you are burned out on your current MMO. I can't even say if you're looking for a change try Rift because there's nothing in the game that hasn't been seen before. Trion went with the "take good stuff from everything and put it together in an accesible game" style of development. It works, but it's a bit of a let-down at the same time.

dragonbrand

Originally posted by Zookz1

I don't feel completely in control of my character. Something just seems... off to me. That said, I like Rift, but it's very much standard fare. It's just like vanilla WoW; nothing but kill/fetch quests, a few instances, and a few BG's. The soul system is the best part of the game, but that will be boiled down into the "best" specs in a few months. I really see no reason to play this game unless you are burned out on your current MMO. I can't even say if you're looking for a change try Rift because there's nothing in the game that hasn't been seen before. Trion went with the "take good stuff from everything and put it together in an accesible game" style of development. It works, but it's a bit of a let-down at the same time.

I have to disagree. I am real sure that I have seen 8 talent trees (souls) per class before. I am pretty sure I haven't seen rifts before and pretty sure that I haven't seen invasions and footholds before either. Haven't seen open, automatic raid (group) invites before. Would be happy to be corrected if you could give examples.

ianicus

seems to me players for some reason these days are expecting new MMO's to change thier life somehow? I dont understand it. Half the mmo's released since wow have had VERY poor initial quality, and Rift by and large seems very polished.

I just dont understand what so many people on MMORPG.com are looking for, its a game...not a lifestyle.

TheLizardbones

---

Originally posted by skoupidi



False advertisment? Please provide valid evidence to this claim..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldI3ypm1gHg

---

Where is the majority again? More people on Facebook 'Like' Rift than have even viewed that video on Youtube.

 

---

So you say that people should like the game, because every random guy in facebook likes it too?

---

Not at all. What I'm saying is that saying the 'majority' of people do not like Rift is not true, because it cannot be proven. There is more evidence that Rift will be very popular and that a lot of people will like the game, pay for the game and play it. That doesn't mean a majority of people will like it, or that they should. For that matter, a majority of which people? *shrug* I have to log into the beta because I was too sick to do so last night. Cyaz. :-)

Zookz1

Originally posted by dragonbrand

Originally posted by Zookz1

I don't feel completely in control of my character. Something just seems... off to me. That said, I like Rift, but it's very much standard fare. It's just like vanilla WoW; nothing but kill/fetch quests, a few instances, and a few BG's. The soul system is the best part of the game, but that will be boiled down into the "best" specs in a few months. I really see no reason to play this game unless you are burned out on your current MMO. I can't even say if you're looking for a change try Rift because there's nothing in the game that hasn't been seen before. Trion went with the "take good stuff from everything and put it together in an accesible game" style of development. It works, but it's a bit of a let-down at the same time.

I have to disagree. I am real sure that I have seen 8 talent trees (souls) per class before. I am pretty sure I haven't seen rifts before and pretty sure that I haven't seen invasions and footholds before either. Haven't seen open, automatic raid (group) invites before. Would be happy to be corrected if you could give examples.

 

One class in WoW has 3 trees that you can spec between. Runes of Magic has sub-classes that you can learn abilities from. FFXI has the same system. FFXIV does as well. Either way, once the best specs are figured out, having 8 classes per calling is kind of pointless. Anyways, I meant  it in a general sense. You're right, there isn't a game out with the exact same mechanics as Rift, but the ideas behind those mechanics have been around forever.

 

Rifts are public quests from Warhammer. No, they're not static, but that's about the only difference. The invasions are essentially the same thing.