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Why Rift just doesn't function
Now mind ya, I don' think Rift is a totally bad game. It has some very promising ideas. Potential. (Yes, again...) And of course it is in many aspects a matter of taste. But there are certain reasons I just think it will die down after a short time, similar to Aion or Warhammer. IMO the rifts are the crucial point of the game, and it offers way more problems, esp. in the long run.
- You always hear this "point X is under attack, defend it at all costs" "oh no, outpost X was lost". It is exciting the first dozen of times. But at a certain point I just felt like I cared less and less if outpost X was invaded or not. So the much needed feel of urgency just vanishes when you have 20 invasions per day, at some point you begin to lose the feeling that it is something special.
- The Warhammer Castle-Siege issue: WAR castle sieges were fun. Really. For a few weeks. The issue was: one castle siege was in the end like every other. The same is true with the Rifts. Besides the visuals of Life/Fire/Death, they all function the exact same way. There is no variance in strategy whether you fight a life or a fire rift, whether you fight a level 7 or a level 29 rift. It's always the exact same. How long can that be exciting?
- Rifts are extremely disturbing to what you planned. Like questing. Often I just wasn't able to dodge the rift mobs, because Telara is full to the rim with mobs, filling the landscape dense, and with the uber fast respawn, you just can't escape via some safe routes as in EQ2 or WOW or LOTRO. In many areas you are just trapped. I had 6 or 7 Epic high level rift groups passing by and stomping me into the ground several times this day. There were only a handful of other players around, so we had no chance to stop this super invasion or escape from the area to any place. It was just frustrating. They camped the quest zones, there weren't enough players to drive them off (it was mid-20ies mobs), and so I was stuck. I know it may feel cool and dangerous now that it's new. But trust me: over time the frustration will get the upper hand. People want to plan their doings, they love their routine and it can be very frustrating much faster than you guys think.
- All this leads still to the question: won't the entire quest hubs be conquered at some point, when people get apathic agains the constant invasions? It balances towards the number of player you say... I didn't see that in the beta! But even then, what if most people present have no will to fight the invasions? You'd essentially be stuck in that area.
- Let's be honest here: the rest of the game is ok, but not SO thrilling to really justify people leaving their fav. MMO where they invested time and hard work into, whatever it is. I just don't see that. It's an ok game. But not the hyper killer MMO to really keep people. Nothing in this game is anything else but "ok". Neither combat nor gameplay nor visuals are that special. Not bad, but not so great as well.
- I still think that this hectic aspect, feeling like playing Tabula Rasa, will in the long run drive away some players. I know, when you are young you think it is "cool" to have always stuff going on, you don't really know your own limits and have even less understanding that others prefer it slow. I don't blame you young guys to have this flaw, because such is the way of things. But reality is: both younger and older people WILL feel drained after some time. Some sooner, some later. When ALL is rush rush rush - gogogo, when there is nothing calm and serene to balance, a lot of people will feel burned out from the constant pressure, EVEN you who now claim that this is exactly what you seek. Or rather you THINK you seek. It WILL tire you. It has something to do with the natural "biorhythm" every human being has that just needs calm to contrast and balance the stressful moments. No human is above such things, and Rift just doesn't HAVE such "calmer" sides. It is all Yang and entirely devoid of Yin, so to speak.
I am really not trying to bash this game. And I wanted to like it, because it has a lot of likeable qualities. But some of the fundamental design ideas are IMO great mistakes, and the rifts may in the long run very well prove to be Rifts undoing.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
I believe the pace of rifts spawning has slowed down considerably from beta 4. Keep in mind, this is a beta test, not a free trial. Trion has already made improvements based on player feedback, i.e; Character sheet completely reworked, rift rewards being more organized and sensible, a join public quest button when fighting rifts.
My point is: we cannot know for sure how much of this is beta testing the servers and systems, and how much will change when Rift goes live.
So....chill out dude.
I just really don't see Rift being all that successful either. It does nothing particularly noteworthy (Rift grinding will get old), and it's going to be released way to close to three upcoming MMORPGs that will absolutely destroy it in terms of box sales and subscriber numbers.
Your point was that rifts are either getting in your way or are something you don't want to do every time you log in. It was just one giant wall of text stating that the rifts are more bothersome to your playstyle because they hinder what you want to do in game.
Thing is you don't have to chase down every rift, stop every invasion and defeat every foothold. You can ignore them and just go run dungeons, grind mobs or quest. Biggest annoyance is the people who complain about games being boring and lifeless and far too safe are the same people complaining that Rift is too lively, hectic and far too dangerous. You want to know why devs stick to a single formula (ie the 'make it like WoW' one)? Because no matter what they do these same players won't ever be happy. It's a case of Damned if they do and damned if they don't, hence why they tend to just go the path of least resistance...
And as to the title; The game functions fine. It does what it set out to do and does it well. Sure its not the most revolutionary MMORPG on the market, but it's fun to play and works awesomely. Even the biggest revolutions in history were merely just babysteps in the grand scheme of things.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
You are aware that people play repetitive online games like FpS and co-RPGs that offer nothing but the same few scenarios and maps for years. So why can't that happen with rift? We have damn near unlimited freedom with our character specs (that we change on the fly), multiple rift types to take down, invasions and footholds that all vary in difficulty. I know most of the haters here don't have an original thought in their heads but I'm sure the one guy you all copied off of got to a decent level to truly see how awesome the game is. From the amazingly crafted Dungeons to the pvp to the extremely large game world. Problem is we can't seem to get any of you guys to play passed the mid-teens to experience anything...So we're stuck watching as you people spread lie after lie... It's sad tbh.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I'm enjoying the game so far, but I also find myself less and less interested in the rifts because they just seem like the same thing over and over again. It was fun the other night in a big group chasing them down, it was fun last night doing the same thing, it's less fun tonight. So instead I thought i'd quest a bit, and found it rather bland, but not bad, just..bland. I am on a Rp-PvP server, but am unsure about where to find the pvp, and the answers people respond with in general chat to others asking the question lead me to not want to ask myself. I do like the low-level warfront where you hold onto the fang, sort of like one of the early scenarios in WAR. I guess my main question is do the rifts change any? And by that I mean do they vary at all in what it takes to close them at later levels? the early ones are just the same thing over again (or it seems that way to me, maybe I'm missing some of the different ones? I love the class system and enjoy playing my toon. I just want some diversity of rifts (not just in size) but in the mechanics of them. I really like all of the ideas they have in place, I just would like to see a more diverse implementation of them.
P.S. Sorry for the paragraph fail
Not even sure if I am sold on the game yet...
None the less, I am tired of these threads. First, folks make whole new threads to point out the same thing others do. Seeking limelight for some reason? Is your thread supposed to be 'the one' that turns people away? I mean why not just post your thoughts on the thread similar to this one that would most likely be on the first page since that is always the case here with every mmo.
Secondly, stop telling people what they think they enjoy. You don't know how they approach their gaming, you don't know what they enjoy, you don't know what they seek. Stop acting as if you do. That was irritating enough to read and I'm not even one of those you are speaking of. Who are you to tell them they will tire of it? Trying to say no human is above such things...that is such a load of b.s. I'm glad I wasn't drinking something or I would have spit it out on the computer.
People are different...people have different tastes and desires....stop thinking you have the answers. You don't like the game then fine. Write a post stating as such on one of the many threads saying the exact same thing. But don't play the Dr. Phil of video gaming and tell people what they really think.
It looks like a very general critique of my critique. Wish people would reply more to the details I said.
You say they can't win. Well, I don't think so. I can think of many improvements. For example, I said one rift attack is exactly like every other, so I fear it will get old fast. Alternatives would be
a) Rifts of different origin have different strategies. Life mobs have good healers; fire AOE attacks, death have rezzers asf.
b) Then in different areas Rift mobs could use different strategies. Like there are forts and castles in some places which they take over, or use formations. The rift mobs have only one strategy: they overwhelm the enemy with masses. Thats it. At least I haven't seen any strategy, let alone variance of strategy.
I could make tons of suggestions to make it better. I see my critique as a huge choice for improvement of the game. But some people prefer not to reply to what I say and attack me instead. The SAME people who then write in other threads, why is this forum so aggressive and rotten...
EDIT: I welcome the idea of the rifts and the idea that the entire world is in danger from the rifts. I just think the implementation has several flaws.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Of course the rifts change! If you were a mmo developer would you make a game called Rift and then offer nothing but the same rift type over and over again? The problem rift has is that it's trying to ease non-mmo gamers into the game. So this makes the first 15 or so levels kinda meh to anyone that really has any type of experience with mmos. They become much more varied, from puzzles to multile stages (beyond te three) to really challenging endgame raid type shit. There's even talk of having players pass through the rift portals into the planes later on. The people that say rifts are the same thing over and over haven't cleared any passed the low to mid teens, either that oor their too busy just standing around waiting for that loot button to blink.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Do I really have to post mid 20 videos of me? Maybe you want a certificate from my townmayor, my birth certificate and a passport copy to believe me, that I did not see any rift invasion do ANYTHING but invade with NUMBERs and zero strategy?
I don't have to proof myself. I saw it.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/11/02/the-soapbox-you-have-an-hour-to-grab-my-attention/
If a game gets funner the further along you get, then thats great. However if a game requires that you get further along to find the fun stuff then it is perfectly viable to say that it is boring.
Is it possible they ramped up the rifts for beta? I think they will find that less is more and people will get more excited about rifts if they happen less frequently.
This is a clone thread with points overdone in many other topics. I spent some times today trying to find anything interesting, but all I've found are threads bumped by the usual bashers that have nothing new to say.
Your first 2 arguments are about how you think rifts are going to feel repetitive. That you are going to feel jaded after few weeks. It's fine to state it as a concern. But premature to start spouting 'Rift is going to fail within weeks' because of that.
Your second 2 arguments are complaints about how dynamic is the world, which may break your routine or take you away from your plan to do quest/grind mobs/gather nodes for hours. Once again, it is more of a matter of personal taste. If you like non-dynamic environments that is fine. But that also means Rift is not for you (and you shouldn't be surprised about it since it's one of the main features).
Then comes the Tabula Rasa argument. Frankly, "<insert game here> has failed, so Rift will fail" is generally a poor comparison. Many factors may have contributed to TR's demise such as bugs, unstability...
The rifts are set to player population density. The more players in a zone, the more frequent and fierce the rifts will be. Also for the beta they had the rifts tweaked to happen more often. This lead to a lot of people seeing massive rift activity especially in the starting areas.
The rifts that happen in the newb areas (10-20 zones) tend to be the same basic rifts over and over - sort of a tutorial for the nature of the events. Once you get passed those areas and into the 20+ zones the rifts tend to get harder and more varied (adding in puzzle type content).
Sadly many people see the early rifts and think 'You've seen one you've seen 'em all...' which is a shame really. It's like walking out of a movie because the opening credits used Arial font which you've seen many times before....
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The thing is, my first couple of hours was the most fun part. And this is the first game in a while where I've been excited to level because I really like the soul system. I just haven't cared for the repetative nature of the content needed to level up. If the rifts open up quite a bit and have different aspects to them, the I'm more than willing to go through the lower levels to get to that part of the game, I just wanted to know that it was there before I put for the effort to do so. I haven't had this much fun with a warrior in an MMO in a while, and really look forward to doing some of the dungeons that everyone keeps talking about. My main concern was the rifts because the first several (probably as high as the first 20 or so) were fun, mainly because there was a large group of people to run around with and do them. But after that they didn't grab me anymore. To me they weren't a problem like they were for the OP but just not as fun. I am glad to hear it opens up, just would have rather seen it a little sooner is all.
Except a MMO... is about player progression.... Which... usually goes from very simple to very complex, or from bland to shiny shiny...
Rockgod99 was talking about going beyond the first 15 levels... Beyond the tutorials where you choose your souls and get your first tradeskills. He didn't mention a sillyness like 'The real game beings at end game".
I disagree with everything but two things. The first point is true. But I expect it will be longer then a few days for most people to get bored of Rifts. There are different rifts the higher you go for the same elements. But they really could add more then just kill 4 mobs, kill 8 mobs, kill 6 mobs, kill boss.
The other point I agree with, is you can call me young anytime! But a very silly notion behind the reason you use young. You use it as a backhanded compliment. To most people, in the way you are saying it, it is an insult :P.
Soo you watched a few leaked vidoes and did not still get in the Beta.... Realy ... sighs.
Yes, but since they implemented (seemingly) more than one type of rift, then why make the players wait till they reach a certain threshold to see or participate in them. Why not have every type of rift in the level 20 areas so people can have fun with them then, it will only allow people who have the view that they are all the same to be proven wrong and will break up the monotony of doing the same type of rift over and over again that is turning some people off and making them quit. Also i never said nor implied that rockgod mentioned a sillyness like "The real game begins at end game".
I actually agree with the OP to a certain point as many have also commented.
There are just way to many RIFTS going on, i'm only level 18 so I don't know if it changes. But there is always a RIFT, i dunno it would seem more epic if one landed like every couple of hours.
I see your point. Maybe it feels like it because of the current level cap. We'll see when it gets upped.
The text you linked strongly criticized how some game focus or put all the fun into end game, where "the real game begins", and how tutorials are cryptic or boring... I don't think it had something to do with Rockgod's earlier comment, so that's where my comment came from :-P
The rift invasion should change the world like guild wars 2 if they really want to compete with them. I sometimes dont bother going to that rift cos its other side of the map you just cant be bothered to run up there and its nearly finish or done? not sure how fast the mount will do though? eventually people will get bored of the rift like other games. I still wonder what to do at end game though apart from raids? do you get special rifts for level cap people?
I find it absolutely funny that as soon as someone posts anything remotely negative about Rift, that person gets attacked with personal insults by the same 3 or so members.
Just because someone doesn't like "your" game, doesn't meant that he's a troll. It's possible that the person actually had high expectations for the game but was dissapointed and is providing his or her feedback.
My prediction, based on all recent MMO releases, is that a few members on these forums will be humbled.
Edit: Oh yea, Rockgod99, I had a similar experience to yours numerous times, so you're not unique in that sense.
I agree with the OP that Rifts and Invasions are fluff that people will become bored with quite quickly. But that does not mean Rift will fail. The reason Warhammer, AoC and most games fail is either because of a lack of 1-50 content or a lack of a PvE Endgame. No major MMO has done well in the Western market without a PVE endgame since DAOC. PvE Endgame has been the focus of Rift's development not the 1-50 game. If you believe Trion Rift will release with more endgame content than any MMO ever has with 10 expert dungons, 2 raid dungeons, expert Rifts, some overland raid mobs and raid Rifts.
If Rift meets the threshold of acceptable 1-50 content what will determine its success is how good is the PvE endgame content. If its good it will do well if not then not so well. It's that simple. Casuals, forums posters and PvP players do not support games or sub to MMOs very long. After a few months when all the dust has the PvP players and wannbe players will do what they always do stop playing. The core players and the hardcore will keep the game alive if the endgame content is enjoyable and keeps them busy. Casuals are sheep that follow the herd of the Hardcore and core players. If there is enough to keep the Hardcore and Core players busy many casuals will stay and new casuals will continue to buy the game
To the OP: This is is what testing is.
The game is being released next month. No matter how much testing gets done and no matter the feedback, the game will not change. It's simply too late for any significant game changes.
The most we can expect are a few bug fixes and class balance.