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RIFT; the result of unoriginal/non creative game developers -- a review from a beta tester
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For people who liked WoW but looking for something fresh im sure Rift fits the bill (assumed from the many WoW clone forum posts...).
For people who don't like the pointless Gear treadmill faste that is WoW, don't get this.
Some people will like it, some wont, but cant we have more constructive forum posts than this bitching.
Awesome, so another complain thread about how a game copies from a game, which in the first place did a huge amount of copy/paste from previous games.
Newsflash, Blizzard did not invent the wheel, heck Blizzard are probably the best at copying features from other games that are about to be released or just released, just look at how the achievment system got added right after WAR came out, yeah they copied it from WAR.
While new mmo players see everything as a WoW clone, they forget, or don't know that WoW werent the first mmo, and WoW were a big fat copy/paste from previous games, the only original about WoW were the shitty graphics, and that they had the money to polish their game before release.
WOW ripped off from Asheron's Call in about everything. Especially the interface.
And then they ripped off the WARHammer Mythos. A minature gaming company that did all the work for WOW for a character base and some story lines.
People "spitting" on WoW remind me those who also "spit" on Avatar (the movie), on Lady Gaga, or everything else that is successful. Some people just look down at anything that has any kind of "popular" success. In the meantime, Blizzard, James Cameron and Lady Gaga are all richer than the sum of all what those haters will gain during their whole life.
That's maybe the problem, actually... jealousy.
So... what's the point? Seriously?
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
?
I think it's more like disliking a game/movie/popstar and therefore disliking the impact it has on the field it's in if it is a large effect. I mean, The Matrix and The lord of the Rings trilogy were hugely successful as well, but you see far less people crapping on those than on Avatar.
In general it's very simple: if people like the direction of the top dogs in a field/genre and the things they stand for, then they've no problem with the impact those top dogs have on the field, if they dislike them and the things they stand for, then their presence and influence becomes annoying and a nuisance to them.
Is applicable to practically every field, not only MMORPG's: the US, Microsoft, ipod's, etc.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
What influence are you talking about?
Avatar never stopped any other "small" movies from being produced.
Lady Gaga never stopped your local small rock band to sing.
I'm personally no fan of Gaga or other Spears and similar stuff, but I don't "spit" on them. It's a fact that they are successful, so who am I to say it's crap? I just say that I don't like it, but it never stopped me from listening The Police, U2, AC/DC or the small local band in a concert.
Fact is that in every artistic form, and I'd daresay that computer games are also an art form, you will have a category of "snob" people spitting on everything popular and praising smaller productions even if they are crap, just because they aren't mainstream.
The problem with WoW is that it raised the quality bar for MMOs pretty high. Before WoW, the MMO crowd was more accepting towards unfinished, crappy games you paid for the beta after they were released. Since WoW, people await the same quantity and quality of content in the new games. Games who don't provide a WoW like polish will fail, and I don't mean they have to be WoW clones, they can be something totally different like a sandbox MMO, but they WILL have to provide a similar amount of polish to be even remotely successful. Contentless pooly programmed crap like the stuff we got these last years will have a short lived success of a month or two and die.
That's why Rift has a chance here. For the first time since LOTRO, a MMO provided a WoW like polish and quality of content at release, and doesn't make its players pay for a beta. Sadly, Rift is also a blatant WoW clone, but hey, it's better than a poorly programmed crappy attempt at a sandbox game like we had recently, at least we will have a new game to play
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Avatar is nothing more than a futuristic rip off from a Disney story. But on top of that it just rested on it's special effects.
http://loyalkng.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/disney-pocahontas-jame-cameron-avatar-story-change-school.jpg
Lady Gaga just sucks. I hate pop, plain and simple. Nothing wrong with that. Do you hate Metallica or Megadeth for their success? Or jsut because you don't care for their music?
Just because the masses enjoy dry humping the 'latest and greatest' doesn't mean I need to be a lemming and get on board. I would much rather sit back eating popcorn and watch them devour one another.
That's where our attitudes differ then. I don't hate Lady Gaga because nobody forces me to listen to her. Same goes for Metallica or Megadeth (I prefer AC/DC). I don't care about their music, but I definitely not hate them. You can be indifferent to Avatar without hating it, too.
Same for WoW. Those who don't like WoW aren't forced to play it. Hating a video game, a movie, a book, music, is, at best, a sign of latent fanatism over something that is completely trivial in the big scheme of life on this planet.
Keep your hatred for things that really matter. Life is too short to hate stuff you aren't forced to do, specially when it's something as trivial as a leisure activity.
There's also the tolerance part towards other people and their tastes. People listening and enjoying Lady Gaga aren't all mental asylum escapees, you can bet many have a better and more successful life than you and me. Same goes for WoW players, or people who like Avatar. Many of them are possibly better persons than you and me, who just happen to enjoy a different leisure activity than you. But when you see that people can hate and fight over such trivial things as a song or a video game, you're not surprised at the actual state of the world, where intolerance and hatred abounds.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The only problem I have with WoW in the MMO Genre is some aspects of its enormous success. It had a huge influence on investors, seeing it and other future MMOs as potential cash cows. The downside to that is that the majority of those investors seem to think that the only way to have a successful MMO is to mimic WoW's profits, and essentially clone WoW.. which noone has been able to do properly so far, on either account.
All in all, while WoW had a definite influence on the amount of polish released MMOs are expected to have, I also feel it had an equally negative impact on innovation and creativity. It seems like the most innovative MMOs these days are those that are made by indy developers. They don't have big name investors looking over their shoulders.
The most original MMOs I can think of to come out after WoW are:
Auto Assault
Tabula Rasa
Darkfall
I would have included CoH, but it released prior to WoW.. and Champions Online and DCUO were from the same. My memory sucks, so throw in any you wish to the list.
EDIT: I also feel that WoW is too big for its own good. Blizzard's WoW department feels like a pile of lazy douches these days, like they could do anything and not care because they will retain millions of subs. WoW NEEDS a clone to compete with it, to stir the market. Rift won't be that game, but that doesn't bother me at this point. All it has to do is put some dent in WoW's subs.
.. But in a good way.
I'm with you.
there's no reason to go around hating anything if you are not forced to experience it.
I don't hate pop, lady gaga, justin Bieber or whoever else is thrown my way. Why? There's no point. And no reason. It's existence does nothing to me.
Most people require something to hate so they allow themselves certain oppositions in life. It gives them focus of a sort and strengthens their decisions about themselves and their place in life.
Now, this is not to say that I don't like certan things. but changing the channel, turning it off, leaving an establishment, etc is the solution to that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well said TBH.
I will second that. Well formulated.
While I'm sure that there are some people who mean it exactly as they say when they state they 'hate' something, it's in most cases just a way of saying. Just like when people say 'I hate these clothes', or 'I hate heavy metal', or 'I hate wine' or 'I hate these daily traffic jams' it doesn't mean that they truly, passionately hate it with a religious fervor to the point that they want to destroy or kill it. What they mean is that they strongly dislike it, just like when someone says 'go to hell!' they don't mean literally 'I wish someone killed you and that you spend an eternity in torture'... well, in most cases people don't mean it when they say it.
Just as when people say 'I love you, bro' or 'I love this car' they generally don't mean that they want to f*k them or go steady with their pal or car. There's love and love, there's hate and hate.
The same applies when people state they 'hate' a company or a game, in most cases and with most people they don't intend to strap a bomb to themselves and start killing off devs of that game company, but it's merely an expression of strong dislike.
Sure, there's a lot of intolerance and hatred roaming around and watching the poisoned political climate in the US and news companies fueling the flames of petty intolerance doesn't make me that optimistic towards an improvement of the situation, but let's look at things in perspective, shall we?
'hatred' means in most cases just a strong dislike, everyone has their strong dislikes and passions.
NB: meh, although interesting discussion, I also went offtopic with it, I think I leave the debate at this
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You're right. You are so right.
::narrows eyes::
I HATE it when you're right.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
It is fairly obvious what the OP's point of reference is.
Developers cant win, if they use an unfamilar UI they get hammered by the mmo community(see final fantasy 14) and if they used a UI thats similar to previous mmorpg they get hammered by the community.
FFXIV's UI would have received a lot less negative criticism if they hadn't made it serverside, and therefor laggy as all hell to go through the menus. It wasn't that way in FFXI. You still had the console-esque UI setup, it just didn't take 45 seconds to equip a piece of gear and get out of the menus.
But yes, I agree with your general point. It's lose-lose in most cases when it comes to taking popular features from popular games. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
.. But in a good way.
Quote from the original poster:
"This game is linear. Everyone moves in the same path, same area to same area in the same order. You can't get lost. As a result of this, everyone has stat filling green armor that is top of the line (atleast until lvl 19, then the game stops holding your hand as much)"
And THIS is percisely why I cancelled my pre-order and won't be playing; if I got bored in beta I highly doubt that the game is going to provide some sparkling new experience for me when launch is just 10 days away. I was playing the last Rift beta with my wife and we just looked at each other in the mid-20's and said, "Really? This is it?"
(Queue all the "but you only made it to the mid 20's" and "the game is only in beta!" cries. OK, got that out of the way.)
The bottom line is, if you want a PvP game; others are out there that do it better. If you want a PvE game, others are out there that do it better - and offer such startling things as DIFFERENT RACIAL STARTING areas so that EVERY character you level from 1-25 isn't a carbon-copy clone of the character that you just played.
It kind of reminds me of the problems with Dungeons & Dragons Online; you could only run "Waterworks" so many times under various character classes before it... well, got kinda old. Fast.
Rift takes that linear gameplay and somehow manages to get people worked up about "dynamic Rifts" which are (less imaginative, with prettier graphics) versions of Warhammer Online's public quests - except they OH WOW appear "at random" in various locations. Wow - just managed to close that Earth Rift with a bunch of random people; I bet the next Earth Rift we close in random location X is going to be so much more amazing!
Like I keep saying; I'd *really* try to play the beta before I waste money on a pre-order of this game. I'd also like to take a betting pool of how many people are crying on the official forums 3 months from launch about how boring, unimaginative, and repetitive the game gets.
I'm not trying to be harsh - I honestly wish people turned me away from buying Aion when it came out; could have saved cash on the copies I got for myself and my wife. (And if not turned me away, I at least wish I had listened to some of the harsher/more realistic comments - you're going to get the SAME comments from fanbois who get excited about every new MMO that comes out that they think will "de-throne WoW" and then 3 months later, look at the forums to see what those self-same fanbois are saying. You can even do it here on MMORPG.COM by looking at some of the loudest pro-Rift voices here, check out how loud they were on other "favorite, unreleased games" until they got bored and went back to their WoW sub.)
I mean, there are interesting games out there - Darkfall is interesting even if not for me. Fallen Earth is definitely different. EVE, while again not for me, is a different and enjoyable game for many. F2P games like LotR and DDO are great ways to try before you buy. But another $50 retail game with a $15 a month sub that looks like it has a 3 month shelf life before people get bored?
No thanks. Maybe I'll wait to see what Trion does (and how much support they give Rift) when their new SciFy Channel/MMO game/TV series crossbreed comes out. Or maybe I'll just wait to be WoWed (ha, ha!) again by something else; because this definitely wasn't it.
Just my opinion. Definitely not a personal attack against anybody who enjoys Rift. I'd just take the super-positive comments with a grain of salt.
Tangible/irrefutable/undeniable FACTS:
Why you hate it? because you have seen it in WoW. Thats not an argument lol
Post like this only show you are a WoW primary hater.
The game is not fun. I don't care what they stole or created out of a fart. The game is not fun, its boring. I gave the beta a go, and it was yawn.
The fact that the OP was apart of the WoW era is dissapointing.
What is the difference between WoW and EQ? What is the difference between Call of Duty and Battlefield? What is the difference between Starcraft and Age of Empires? What is the difference between Fable and Fallout? What's the difference between Eragon and Artemis Fowl? Stories.
What is an MMORPG to you people? A game where everyone is together on the same world? Honestly people, that can't be the only thing that MMORPGs are going to have in common. Floating numbers, are you kidding me, you really think that came from World of Warcraft (aka everquest)? Think about what you are talking about before you start throwing things around. Text styles & colors, honestly? You are trying to destory a perfectly decent game with tons of potential.
Gamers, mainly MMORPG players, are SO caught up in either "elitism" or, wow-fanboys, or, "I'm to good for any MMORPG unless it meets every need I want"... Currently, I'm studing for design and development of multiplayer titles, and what they teach us in courses, is very similar to what you see in most of these mainstream games like World of Warcraft. World of Warcraft revolutionized the style of MMORPGs, however they didn't create the foundation, Everquest, and games before you were even in the womb did. I play Rift, I play WoW. Both games have good advantages and disadvantages, but this community of gamers has become a raging monster. Back in the day of EQ1, you had one guy, out of every few hundred that was a negative nancy about something in the game, and they were easily pointed in the right direction on how to overcome their negativity. It seems like nowadays, all you 16 year old children do is flame each other because you think it increases your ego, when really you are just making yourself look like an idiot. I garuntee half of the things you argue and complain about on these forums, or any forums for that matter, could be resolved if you guys actually went to school for game developement, and created your own company together to create one massive MMORPG that everyone would enjoy as a whole.
Sitting on these forums typing aimlessly about how this game sucks or how that game is so good doesn't make sense, instead of voicing your opinion, execute it and show US developers what you want to see in a future game, complaining about things doesn't help us improve a game, showing us new ways or ideas of how you'd like things to be done will help us work with you to improve a game that you could love.
Think Outside the Box, we can't always do it by ourselves.
I started to read this with an open mind, even though I think Rift is one of the best MMO's to come out in years, and I've played countless MMO's for 11+ years now, since Meridian 59 (an mmo? doesn't matter)...
Anyway, this is yet another post of someone who thinks and/or acts like World of Warcraft was the first computer game ever, let alone the first MMO, which is was NOT. Not even close.
Wow "stole" tons of "their" idea's and interfaces, (and made their own), etc, from many other past games, even from their own strategy games, not just MMO's. Read this sentence over and over again. Please. All of you that keep comparing every MMO to WoW... I'm SICK of it. It's ignorant, and obnoxious.
The word "stole" is a quite meaningless in the context you are using it. A progress bar. Yeah, WoW invented them. WTF? They have been around before PC's used a GUI as an OS (e.g. electronic devices).
I'd go on, but that's it. I made my point. I don't need to site countless examples showing how flawed your logic is.
You lost me at "WoW"...
LOL, the post above mine, which I just read, basically is making the same exact point I did. Nice.
Cheers. Glad someone has open eyes on the issue instead of taking sides.