RIFT; the result of unoriginal/non creative game developers -- a review from a beta tester

weirdtimes

Originally posted by fhjais

In this most recent beta 5, I played extensively trying to go through as many different aspects as possible. After all those hours, I've realized this: RIFT tries so hard to be WoW and tries to capitalize on its few mistakes. Even things that seem illogically placed, or seem to bear no function, or just seem to not work are undoubtedly there because WoW had it. Consider:





Tangible/irrefutable/undeniable FACTS:



- RIFT's user interface is a twin/siamese brother (/or even a conjoined fetus) of World of Warcrafts UI. Floating numbers, group window, target's target windows, casting bars, health/mana/energy bars, bar colors, character portraits, maps, minimaps, loot boxes, loot icons, mouse over icons, icon placement, text color, text font, font size, etc etc. I've mentioned this to other players and the response is usually "WoW did not invent these things." My rebuttal is please point to a game pre exisiting WoW that has a UI as similar.



- Various mechanics are identical to WoW. Rogues use a 100 point energy system. The regen rate might be exactly identical to that of WoWs, idk. A combo point system is also in place (with those little shiny bubbles building up, looking exactly the same, ho ho!)



- There is global cooldown system (What reasonable argument is there to have this in place, other than WoW has it? What reason is there when there already exists weapon speed and casting speed?)



- There is renown / honor (though named differently, to exercise originality!), and you can buy gear with this form of currency.



- Warfronts, ala battlegrounds with leaderboards.







No critique is well built without compliments. The good:



- The soul system. Many variations of classes. It is actually addicting to try and figure out which class you want to level as because there are so many choices.



- Roles. Disables the need to roll a new class. You'd have to level at most 4 characters (one for each race) to the max level and you could try every class, unless you wanted a BG twink or something.





The main 'gimmick' of this game is as the title suggests: RIFTS. A rift is a random PvE encounter that spawns throughout areas. Therefore, the game's main interest is to cater to PvE folk. You can see this because pretty much all PvP related things involve PvE. In Port Scion, RIFTs will randomly spawn. Devs say that this will draw players to each other. There are also things called wardstones that players can fight over; one faction tries to destroy it, the other tries to save it. It's like, they try to draw players into fighting each other over PvE related crap. That's just my opinion though. The only thing that keeps my interest is if there will be a FFA server at launch. I doubt that will happen though, because WoW does not have such a server.

 

Out of all of this I have one more thing to say, leave the reviews to people who understand the building blocks of games. I can tell by your responses that you have no clue or experience in the matter. I can come to this conclusion from one of your sentences alone, the rest of the post just helps 

 - There is global cooldown system (What reasonable argument is there to have this in place, other than WoW has it? What reason is there when there already exists weapon speed and casting speed?) 

This sentence proves you don't understand balance.....Why is there global cooldowns?, prevent complete spamming of skills and having to time your abilities. Can you explain to me why we wouldn't have this or are you trolling? Global cooldowns are 100% necessary, it adds a strategic level of combat...

sungodra

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by sungodra

Originally posted by LouieTuesday

Threads like this make no sense at all. Why do you keep buying mmos? You KNOW they are all going to copy what works right? World of warcraft worked. Why do you keep buying these games? You are not helping them get creative and original by buying the same old crap.  I dont get how people expect the industry to change when you want reject anything that really is "new". You like the car you have now, you just wish it came in blue...

 I understand. It seems like all the naysayers and MMO haters want to come on the boards and create a shitstorm to convince people not to buy this game, probably in some misguided attempt to herd players into their anticipated games , GW2, TOR, Tera...

 

It is fine to like a game or be excited about its release, but there is no reason to come on the forums and just flame and flame Rift in order to be sure that people will believe you, so they don't buy a game that is relatively decent and fun.

 

You do understand that it's completely possible to dislike this (and any other) game without having a hidden agenda, right?

 I dislike alot of games, but I don't go around posting on their forums. If I like it  I post , if I don't I move on and let the people that do like it enjoy the game.

 

If I happen to like a game and see problems with it. I will post my suggestions on how the game can get better. I don't hang around forums of a game I don't like at all, just to post how shittty I think it is.

Netspook

Originally posted by sungodra

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by sungodra

Originally posted by LouieTuesday

Threads like this make no sense at all. Why do you keep buying mmos? You KNOW they are all going to copy what works right? World of warcraft worked. Why do you keep buying these games? You are not helping them get creative and original by buying the same old crap.  I dont get how people expect the industry to change when you want reject anything that really is "new". You like the car you have now, you just wish it came in blue...

 I understand. It seems like all the naysayers and MMO haters want to come on the boards and create a shitstorm to convince people not to buy this game, probably in some misguided attempt to herd players into their anticipated games , GW2, TOR, Tera...

 

It is fine to like a game or be excited about its release, but there is no reason to come on the forums and just flame and flame Rift in order to be sure that people will believe you, so they don't buy a game that is relatively decent and fun.

 

You do understand that it's completely possible to dislike this (and any other) game without having a hidden agenda, right?

 I dislike alot of games, but I don't go around posting on their forums. If I like it  I post , if I don't I move on and let the people that do like it enjoy the game.

 

Silly argument. Games should be reviewed and commented on from both perspectives. This isn't a "fanboys only" forum.

fhjais

Small update in original post.

fhjais

Originally posted by weirdtimes

Let me summarize this post in a few sentences:

I played/looked at WoW and this looks exactly like it, CLONE CLONE CLONE CLONE...ect........

What this post seems to forget is familiarity is what sells, not total innovation...Why fix whats not broken, just build off of what is succesful its a business, take only risks you can afford. Thats what Rift has done, has its own mix on the same old same. When a new burger joint opens up, they don't put the burger inside out, change it to lamb meat, and deep fry it, you want to know why?, because that only sells to some if any, you need the familiar burger building blocks with your own twists and additions. 

So all in all, STOP with these OMG CLONE posts, we get it they took some things, so does everyone else. The fact that people say WOW clone is completely ignorant.... Wow takes alot of its stuff from others, Interface: EQ1(mods),EQ2....Achievement System: EQ2/Xbox lol, Combat: Twitch combat that was extremely slow when it released, Talent System: Please...Way before wow, 

The only reason people say WoW clone is because it is the largest, it defiantly wasn't the first so stop giving all the credit...

References: Played WoW since release

 

My review is completely objective, backed by facts, with my opinions noted. You haven't provided anything but your opinion by calling people ignorant and comparing RIFT to burger restaurants. Unless you have something valid to say, please don't say anything, especially when it's a critical review of something. Thanks.

gurugeorge

Originally posted by fhjais

In this most recent beta 5, I played extensively trying to go through as many different aspects as possible. After all those hours, I've realized this: RIFT tries so hard to be WoW and tries to capitalize on its few mistakes. Even things that seem illogically placed, or seem to bear no function, or just seem to not work are undoubtedly there because WoW had it. Consider:







 

Your questions would be best answered by perusing this article.

It's not lack of imagination or talent on the part of developers - that's really quite a ridiculous and misplaced insult. 

It's that these "tropes" you are talking about are now familiar and any game that doesn't have them is more likely to fail than not, and fewer investors are likely to invest in a game that is more likely to fail than not (i.e. is a bigger risk).

The target of your opprobrium should be players, not developers.  And yet the players are innocent too (if you check the article, you will see that you too probably follow the same or similar patterns of behaviour).

kitarad

Games these past few years seem to be failing either in getting released with too many bugs (Vanguard, Age of Conan) or missing features ( Age of Conan)  or generally not working at all because of population imbalances (Warhammer,Aion). 

 

So now we have a game that is uninspired as far as features go and might be a carbon copy but we have other complaints. It no longer is the bugs or missing features but more to do with the lack of imagination for trying to be too safe and producing a stable game. Really very hard to please anyone. I think it is just another game that is part of the current offerings. We can decide what we want to play because obviously the other games are not getting our play time for now what with most of them not having healthy populations or going free to play to survive.

 

There is a lull I guess while we wait for the second coming, meanwhile you can while your time away playing this derivative game or not. I think considering my options playing Rift is really not so bad it will definitely pass my time in this dry period.

 

One other point what might be expressed here might not be what the MMORPGamers at large feel and they might embrace a WoW clone with better graphics. You all continuously sneer at that WoW crowd well they might well be what supports Rift. Seriously I think the people on this forum who pride themselves on their opinions are very much in the minority. The average gamer may well be pretty satisfied with the likes of Rift and is ready to fork out the bucks for a WoW clone.

Wickedjelly

I can actually see this game doing fairly well.  Nothing mindblowing by any means but I don't see it having a huge dropoff after their intial launch numbers - least nothing out of the ordinary.  The game is simply well developed and actually ready to be launched.  So unless the endgame is a disaster or they're incredibly lazy with updates and additional content; I think this game is going to have a rather healthy sub rate.

Phelcher

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by heerobya

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

In Blue!

Honestly Rabenwold you think you are so smart but your grasp of game design principles is severely lacking.

I do not hold contempt for your opinion that you do not like Rift and think that it is a sub-par game.

I hold contempt with the way you present your "facts" as if the are such when the thin veil covering your bias is transparent.

An effective argument it is not. 

 

Everything in a game must be programmed. The only thing truly dynamic in ANY video game are the players, as they have the freedom to not be following pre-coded scripts and conditions. Everything pretending to be dynamic is actually just a clever play on both random and pre-defined conditions set forth by programming variables etc. etc.

In that sense, you are correct that NO game will ever be truly dynamic in PvE unless we invent games run by intelligent AI that is capable of human level thought and decision making.

But what Rifts is is something MORE dynamic and evolved in that specific sense then any other MMO yet to be released, on the PvE side of course. PvP and dynamic nature is best exemplified by a game like EvE, but I won't even go into the host of other problems I have with that game. 

 

You seem to believe that unless Rift is both the Alpha and the Omega it is not a GOOD game. 

There are plenty of good games that are not perfect in every way shape and form. I know of zero perfect games. Just like there are zero perfect people and zero perfect truths. 

Opinions are only relevant and credible if backed up by logic, factual evidence, experience, and wisdom. You sir seem to lack these qualifications to earn the label of having an "informed opinion" and as such, you see everyone hear discrediting you.

How you can claim you know what I know about game design is beyond me, especially given the posts. I use the word design but hardly go into it in any elaborate manner, so for you to make the claim that my design knowledge is lacking is humorous at best.

So you have a problem with how I type? Fair enough, though I find it silly. Did you know everyone has a bias, its almost impossible not to have one. The question is how much is it effecting your rational thinking, and in turn are you showing signs of what they call the confirmation bias (behavioral sciences).  So since you claim you can see my supposed bias, can you tell me what it is? Let me guess... that I dont like Rift and how Trion marketed the game? Hmm well if thats a bias I have, then your not liking how I type and relate information can be called a bias too. Therefore, logically one should conclude that because I wont like rift no matter what they do, you wont like my posts no matter what I say. So you see, we are at a cross roads here, no matter what I type you will hate it, no?

What you are not getting from my post, which I thought was pretty clear, is that Rift is a 1) Generic + under developed game thats full of misleading marketing and lazy design choices and 2) I think generic under developed games that use the choices are generally "crappy".

Is there anything wrong with that? I mean, thats it in its most simplified form. Now I never said no one can actually enjoy a game I think is crappy. IN fact I have never once made that claim. So what I want to know is...how did you logically come to that conclusion. Instead of carrying this portion of the discussion on here, just send me a PM, otherwise we can talk about the actual game itself here and now.

Feel free to layout specifically what parts of the game I have talked about that leads you to this mythical lack of "informed opinion".

Now correct me if I am wrong but the thread is about RIFT being unoriginal and non creative, correct? And since that seems to be my stance as well, which I have explained, you seem to come to the conclusion that I am uniformed, yet not once have you actually tried to hold a dialog with me on the specifics of these elements. I feel as though you would rather play word games and some how pretend to carry on this air of intelligence while implying that I have none.

We need less spin, no?

 

 

I agree.

 

Because RIFT offers me nothing new and is the best generic/mediocre game I have played, the question is...  Is RIFT suficient enough to fool WoW refugee's and straglers..?  Don't get me wrong, I marveled @ how the developers designed the game & how great the game is, but...

Does it offer anything new for me, or any veteran gamer..? The answer is no. So therefore it has no value to many older players who have seen every Dev trick in the bag. Once you understand these things... then see them, it leaves you feeling cheap inside and wanting a real mmorpg.

Branes

I haven't read every post here so if I duplicate what someone else has said, forgive me.

Rift is a very good looking game. The graphics are nothing less than amazing at max level. Grass sways in the wind, the water ripples and reflects sunlight, the world darkens when a rift opens up...very impressive. As for the gameplay, after a couple of days, allowing myself to get to level 18 at least, I really got the feeling of "ho hum, been there, done this, many times before." As a longtime EQ player, part time DoAC player, part time EQ2 player,  long time SWG player, and player of WoW since launch,(as well as trying a few others like Guild Wars, and Anarchy Online)  I was really hoping for something that would draw me into it and avoid the same pitfalls that have turned me off to WoW...things like grinding for badges to get gear, and doing quests for trainers to get tradeskill badges to get new recipes. Instead, Rift offers grinding rifts for planarites to buy gear which is obsolete in a couple of levels. They load up your bags with all kinds of little trinkets for tradeskills, collections, scrolls, potions...all the same stuff that WoW crammed into their bags and then charged two body parts to get new ones to expand. By the 6th beta, 10 slot bags were costing 1 platinum in the auctioneer, the equivalent of 1 gold in WoW, but an amount almost impossible to acquire before level 20 due to the high cost of buying your soul back after dying trying to make planarites in rifts.  i do not understand the necessity of making extra bag space cost huge amounts of money when everyone eventually HAS to have the space to accomodate all the junk they pick up. I mean seriously, how much talent is necessary to learn how to sew two pieces of cloth together to make a big bag???  This is really immaterial, just one of my pet peeves about MMO's in general, but it is present in Rift, as is just about every other aspect of traditional MMO's.

To be perfectly honest, the game feels like someone took a Corvette engine, gave it a similar looking body with fresh coat of paint and added some chrome rims and put it out on the street with a new name and called it better. And this is the same company that makes a point in their commercials of saying "This isn't Azeroth anymore." So, frankly, if you make a statement like that in your promos, you'd better be able to back it up, but as far as I've seen, there just doesn't seem to be that much difference.

And for those who think that if someone doesn't like a game he should not say something about it. I, for one, ALWAYS look on the forums for reasonable, well-thought out reviews of games before I invest my cash, as any intelligent gamer should.  If you like the game, more power to you. Enjoy. But some of us feel that it isn't what it could have been. As my favorite comedian is wont to say after one of his famous rants, "That's  just my opinion, I could be wrong."

 

 

 

Xasapis

Originally posted by Branes

I haven't read every post here so if I duplicate what someone else has said, forgive me.

Rift is a very good looking game. The graphics are nothing less than amazing at max level. Grass sways in the wind, the water ripples and reflects sunlight, the world darkens when a rift opens up...very impressive. As for the gameplay, after a couple of days, allowing myself to get to level 18 at least, I really got the feeling of "ho hum, been there, done this, many times before." As a longtime EQ player, part time DoAC player, part time EQ2 player,  long time SWG player, and player of WoW since launch,(as well as trying a few others like Guild Wars, and Anarchy Online)  I was really hoping for something that would draw me into it and avoid the same pitfalls that have turned me off to WoW...things like grinding for badges to get gear, and doing quests for trainers to get tradeskill badges to get new recipes. Instead, Rift offers grinding rifts for planarites to buy gear which is obsolete in a couple of levels. They load up your bags with all kinds of little trinkets for tradeskills, collections, scrolls, potions...all the same stuff that WoW crammed into their bags and then charged two body parts to get new ones to expand. By the 6th beta, 10 slot bags were costing 1 platinum in the auctioneer, the equivalent of 1 gold in WoW, but an amount almost impossible to acquire before level 20 due to the high cost of buying your soul back after dying trying to make planarites in rifts.  i do not understand the necessity of making extra bag space cost huge amounts of money when everyone eventually HAS to have the space to accomodate all the junk they pick up. I mean seriously, how much talent is necessary to learn how to sew two pieces of cloth together to make a big bag???  This is really immaterial, just one of my pet peeves about MMO's in general, but it is present in Rift, as is just about every other aspect of traditional MMO's.

To be perfectly honest, the game feels like someone took a Corvette engine, gave it a similar looking body with fresh coat of paint and added some chrome rims and put it out on the street with a new name and called it better. And this is the same company that makes a point in their commercials of saying "This isn't Azeroth anymore." So, frankly, if you make a statement like that in your promos, you'd better be able to back it up, but as far as I've seen, there just doesn't seem to be that much difference.

And for those who think that if someone doesn't like a game he should not say something about it. I, for one, ALWAYS look on the forums for reasonable, well-thought out reviews of games before I invest my cash, as any intelligent gamer should.  If you like the game, more power to you. Enjoy. But some of us feel that it isn't what it could have been. As my favorite comedian is wont to say after one of his famous rants, "That's  just my opinion, I could be wrong."

 

 

 

In the normal game (not beta) I believe that we'll rely on our guild mates to provide us with certain things. One of those are the bags. An outfitter professional will be able to craft some bags for you with only cloth (that you loot from humanoids) and some vendor bought thread.

rojoArcueid

Originally posted by Totec

Rift simply took the things that worked from previous games and enhanced them.... Just as Wow did with EQ, and EQ did with MUDD... This is something that has been done for quite some time.

the problem is that the only thing that its actually enhanced is the graphics.... at least WoW enhanced  al the things they borrowed from EQ and made it better.... so far, as of 6th betta, RIFT hasnt..... there is still hope before game release.... lets hope its not too late

Branes

That isn't the point. My toon is an outfitter. I was talking about the fact that I didn't like the WoW system so I don't find the Rift clone system any more appealing.

Xasapis

Originally posted by Branes

That isn't the point. My toon is an outfitter. I was talking about the fact that I didn't like the WoW system so I don't find the Rift clone system any more appealing.

In that case I don't think that you'll like Rift. For me it's a different take on a familiar subject. Or if you like, while my original vanilla love was lost in the storm of expansions, I've found her back in this form.

TsaboTavok

The only thing I like about Rift is the class system the rest is all the things I'm sick off in WoW that are done worse then in WoW. 

ScribZ

Originally posted by Branes

To be perfectly honest, the game feels like someone took a Corvette engine, gave it a similar looking body with fresh coat of paint and added some chrome rims and put it out on the street with a new name and called it better. And this is the same company that makes a point in their commercials of saying "This isn't Azeroth anymore." So, frankly, if you make a statement like that in your promos, you'd better be able to back it up, but as far as I've seen, there just doesn't seem to be that much difference.

 

A lovely coment here. Really, is there any part of this that is true? I mean is the engine behind Rift the same as WoW? The backserver configuration the same? Are the graphics the same? Is the gameplay the same? Really? The instances are all the same, the PvP warfronts that same? WoW has contested PvP open world zones too? WoW has open public grouping too (and no, finding a group in a group finder isn't the same as walking into an event and click joining evryone there instantly - because they are there, not because you were looking for a team).

So what exactly in Rift is the same in Azeroth? I mean your saying you haven't seen anything in Rift that is different than Azeroth? So what is the same then? Seriously.

 

 

 

Nethermancer

I agree that this game is extremly unoriginal. But i believe it will do well b/c it has that addictive feel that WoW has. That ultra easy relaxed casual grind for blue and purple carrots that I feel no game has captured as well as WoW until now.

 

Unfortunantly this is the LAST thing I want in a game so after getting a character to level 20 i uninstalled and will not be coming back.

ext1nct

Originally posted by fhjais

The main 'gimmick' of this game is as the title suggests: RIFTS. A rift is a random PvE encounter that spawns throughout areas. Therefore, the game's main interest is to cater to PvE folk. You can see this because pretty much all PvP related things involve PvE. In Port Scion, RIFTs will randomly spawn. Devs say that this will draw players to each other. There are also things called wardstones that players can fight over; one faction tries to destroy it, the other tries to save it. It's like, they try to draw players into fighting each other over PvE related crap. That's just my opinion though. The only thing that keeps my interest is if there will be a FFA server at launch. I doubt that will happen though, because WoW does not have such a server.

 

 

Quoted from OP.

 

Just a question, I think you are irony unless why do you think Rift may will have a FFA server???

I would love it, but Rift's mechanics (Guardians vs Defiants) doesn't seem to do this possible.

rojoArcueid

Originally posted by fhjais

The only thing that keeps my interest is if there will be a FFA server at launch. I doubt that will happen though, because WoW does not have such a server.

 

so what ur tryiing to say here is that RIFT cant have FFA servers because WoW doesnt have one?  that statement is pretty lame... Rift wont have FFA because it wouldnt make sense to have enemy factions if you can pk your own ppl outside of duels

erictlewis

Originally posted by MisterZebub

Originally posted by Netspook

 

 

You do understand that it's completely possible to dislike this (and any other) game without having a hidden agenda, right?

Certainly is, but when you see the same people posting over and over on every game thread about a game they claim to hate, you have to wonder why they can't move on. You can't help but suspect either they are badly obsessed with this game or have an alterior motive.

 Yes but then that just shows that group of persons likes and dislikes.  I personally have no hidden agenda.  I could care less if rift becomes the greatest game in history.  It will do so without me, I just don't like the game for many reasons that listed in other posts.  I also railed on lotro which is an abomination of what it once was. Just because I dislike a game does not mean I have a hidden agenda, all it means is I think the game stinks, and is not for me. I don' want to see these games fail, becasue folks do love to play them,  all I rail against is the outright falshoods and lies posted about the games trying to suck folks in.

Meanwhile there are other games I love like eq2.

deniter

Originally posted by fhjais

The main 'gimmick' of this game is as the title suggests: RIFTS. A rift is a random PvE encounter that spawns throughout areas. Therefore, the game's main interest is to cater to PvE folk. You can see this because pretty much all PvP related things involve PvE. In Port Scion, RIFTs will randomly spawn. Devs say that this will draw players to each other. There are also things called wardstones that players can fight over; one faction tries to destroy it, the other tries to save it. It's like, they try to draw players into fighting each other over PvE related crap. That's just my opinion though. The only thing that keeps my interest is if there will be a FFA server at launch. I doubt that will happen though, because WoW does not have such a server.

 

I agree with OP in many parts. Rift is totally boring, hand-holding and generic but polished MMORPG with spoon-fed quests and public quest mk2.

However, the underlined comment is something I can't agree with. If you design a game to have mobs, dungeons, gear and stats, PvP must be connected to PvE in one way or another. Otherwise you could pretty much play Counter Strike or any other FPS deathmatch game. If killing other players for no reason is the only interest one has in an MMO, he / she is playing a wrong game.

damascvas

So basiclly the overall complaint everyone has is that i feels like WoW....Every part of every MMO was taken from anouther and changed, RIFT, imo, does this to a spectacular level. The class trees are expansive, the graphics are good, gamplay is smooth, the Rift PvE events run nice, thought it does have the pre release beta bugs right now, PvP is fun and fast paced, all-in-all RIFT grabs what everyone like in a MMO and adapts it to fit the gamestyle. 

Lovely_Laly

IMO not many of proper to his game stuff, but lot of boring grinds. world seems to be small too.

Fusion

And the OP is judging the game based on a beta that is being held few days at a time...

"tier 2 leveling is boring because the zones are empty" - well DUH because not everyone grinds at the same pace, you don't think this'll change in retail, once more people get into their 20's? and 30's etc what ever the other leveling tier zones are..

 

"UI is WÖW CLOON *cryface*" .. but why go alienate people from a familiar interface (as we all know, most MMO players currently are either familiar with WoW interface, or completely new to the scene)

 

"Update #1 2/5:"  - Here you cry about everyone going the same path and not being able to get lost, yet in the same update you cry about scarlet gorge being a maze and hard to navigate (make up your mind?)

 

And just make it clear for you, since you obviously haven't figured it out by yourself yet: YOU CANNOT INVENT THE WHEEL TWICE..

Comnitus

Here's RIFT in four sentences.

If you're tired of WoW, try it. You'll probably enjoy it.

If you're tired of WoW-type gameplay, don't try it. You'll only frustrate yourself, then come crying to forums about how things are copied.