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RIFT; the result of unoriginal/non creative game developers -- a review from a beta tester
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To the OP - so much space devoted to the UI? As others have said, that style of UI is the accepted standard these days. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I mean you have to have easy access to hotkeys, bags, mini-map etc. - how do you do that without a UI that looks like pretty much every other MMO? Round buttons on the action bar? Is that different enough?
If a game were to launch that had a substantially different UI (and I fail to see how anyone could come up with one substantially different with equal functionality) there would probably be an outcry. People like the standard UI set up, there's nothing to "learn" about the interface, and you can just get straight to playing.
On Evasia's response - the only trailer I've seen for RIFT that even alludes to WoW is the "You're not in Azeroth anymore" one.
If there is one that claims that RIFT is "from the makers of WoW" I'd love to see it. I honestly can't see Trion doing something that clunky - their PR and marketing people seem to be very much on the ball.
Another 'Rift stole from WoW' thread...
Yay...
Scores (1-10)
Originality: 1
Flashy Thread Title: 3
Regurgitated Complaints: 6
Thinking WoW did everything first: 4
To the OP; WoW was not the first MMO to use ANYTHING it currently uses. The UI is something seen in games like EQ. Phasing was done in LOTRO. CoH was a heavy quest based game as well. Instances (dungeons etc) were seen in AO back in 2001, as were quests, flying mounts, etc. Hell AO even had the same UI for a while there. The only thing I can think of that WoW did all by itself was the LFD tool (which in reality was nothing more than a backhanded server merge)
So next time you get the urge to point out what a game 'copied' from WoW, stop and think a bit about what WoW 'copied' from EVERY other game on the market. WoW was also an unoriginal game with some very uncreative developers if you look at it that way.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
What is wierd is that Alganon was destroyed on these forums for being a 'WoW clone', probably by a lot of the same people as are frothing for Rift now (at the least, they didnt defend it or probably try it).
I guess it's just a matter of marketing and timing.
@vesavius
I was in the beta for Alganon, and it was pretty horrid back then - Like a WoW ripoff, but worse. Yeah, they had some interesting systems that they were implementing, but they weren't working, and the game wasn't in enough of a finished state to really be worth defending. I didn't attack it back then though, I did my beta testing job for as long as I could stomach the game, and reported bugs and suggestions, but then I left it and didn't look back. It's since gone F2P, come under new management, and has been updated a lot. Is it any good? I have no clue - I haven't been tempted to come back to Alganon, but I'm thinking that the state of the game is probably a good deal better now, and that they actually have some distinguishing features.
Rift, as I see it, is in a better position. Their betas have had a high amount of polish to them, have been focused on testing specific aspects of their game, and have had very few serious bugs to hammer out during these betas. I'm fairly sure a lot of people felt like me going into the game, which was basically:
"Well, I'm pretty convinced this will be another boring that-game-clone, but it looks pretty, so I'll give it a go and see what happens."
And, like myself, I think a lot of people were surprised at the state of the game, and at Trion in general as a company supporting and backing their MMO. Most of the game's supporters that I see aren't kidding themselves either - noone is hailing Rift as the new WoW-killer or any such nonsense. The consensus among the game's supporters seems to be: "Not revolutionary, not really all that original, but you know, it's actually a lot of fun. More than I expected." The words I see most commonly used to describe Rift (by its supporters) is: Solid game, good amount of polish, works extremely well for a game in beta, and finally, impressive management of the game by Trion.
http://machineborn.guildportal.com - Now recruiting players!
There are some very serious issues discussed in Rift forums though ... like:
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?13667-Are-the-female-chars-supposed-to-be-flat-chested
I agree.
Wow copied features from other games. Rift is CTRL+C , CTRL+V from WoW + little changes it can be named WoW 2 minus lore. If you want 95% WoW clone with better graphics Rift is for you, if you are bored already with WoW you will be bored fast in Rift.
I guess it's as simple as that some people look at a game and only see the similarities that it has with other games, while other people look at a game and see the differences it has with other games in its genre.
Those who look at Rift and can only see the similarities start saying 'WoW clone' or 'same old same old'.
Those who look at Rift and see the differences will be surprised at the 'WoW clone' remarks or find it fresh and different enough to enjoy playing.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This thread; the result of unoriginal/non creative game elitists -- a review from a non disgruntled gamer.
In this most recent imminent MMO release, I lurked extensively through the forums trying to go through as many different threads as possible. After all those hours, I've realized this: elitists try so hard to be original and try to recap the good old days. Even things that just seem fun, or seem to simply function, or just seem to work are undoubtedly there just to piss off the pro-gamer.
Tangible/irrefutable/undeniable FACTS:
- RIFT's user interface is a twin/siamese brother (/or even a conjoined fetus) of World of Warcrafts UI. Floating numbers, group window, target's target windows, casting bars, health/mana/energy bars, bar colors, character portraits, maps, minimaps, loot boxes, loot icons, mouse over icons, icon placement, text color, text font, font size, etc etc. I've mentioned this to other players and the response is usually "WoW did not invent these things." My observation, allthough this system is tried and tested and most importantly works, somehow it is not good enough for them and makes them go into a frenzy. No new ui means the game sucks.
- Various mechanics are identical to WoW, meaning not all mechanics. But they will allways mention one that does look similar and use it again as an argument to take down the game. Nothing that is good is allowed to be used. Evrything needs to be new, everything.
- There is global cooldown system (What reasonable argument is there to hate this, because WoW has it? they also don't want weapon speed and casting speed, because it allready exists. No mention if it is good or not, no! It allready exists so it sucks.
- Renaming renown / honor is apparently blasphemy, and the fact you can buy gear with this form of currency should cast you straight into hell.
- Warfronts, ala battlegrounds with leaderboards are repulsive somehow.
...
To you it's WoW, to me it's WAR.
But that's not the question at hands what it is, it's how it's done.
I think people will get bored after a month ot two, then the guilds leave and later nobody talks about this game.
It's too much like other games.
That you can change the size etc on the UI, nothing new. SWG have it and I'm sure other games have it.
Problem with Rift, nothing is new. Nada.
Rift will attract a lot of players due to the very positive beta experience. I guess it has 2-3 months to expand content and start to diversify before people start to leave.
WAR was a great game with a lot of potential. However, as people got further into the game, the lack of depth really started to shine. The difference between the two was that the WAR beta wasn't nearly as smooth/polished.
Trying to compare any new game at release to a game with 3-5 years of ongoing development/content/expansions/etc, from a complete feature perspective, isn't really fair. WoW was NOT the same game it is today at its own launch.
I don't think that's a valid argument.
People are playing the same MMORPG sometimes for years and after the 1st 6 months, there's hardly anything new in those anymore as well, still people grind away doing the same dungeons and other things over and over in them for sometimes years.
If MMO gamers in general were so much hunting for 'new' in MMORPG's, they wouldn't stick with their 'same old' MMORPG all that time, they'd give very different MMORPG's a try, like FE, or Ryzom, or CO or some of the other very different MMO flavors around. Still, most don't.
MMO gamers in general play what they find fun, and where their friends and MMO buddies are: if Rift is fun to them and they find other likeminded friends and guildies that're making the switch to it, then they don't mind whether it's 'new' or not, they'll make the step to play it, just like with other MMORPG's.
The main question isn't whether Rift offers all kinds of 'new' features, it is whether there's enough varying content to keep its players entertained, especially after they reach the level cap.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah agree with OP i'm not trolling but very disspointed Rift is technically superior to any Beta i've tested but they seem to have done a Blizzard for the 21st century, taken every them park element and stuck the dynamic rift/soul element as an added incentive to which is practically the same basic Themepark formula complete with generic crafting.
With such a team i was expecting maybe a Vanguard approach at least something to break the mold,but no doubt Rift will steal lot's of customers from Blizzard but in the long term i can not see Rift been a long term success as 2011 Will give Mo gamers many options, even Earthrise tried to be different maybe technically not quite ready but they will get there eventually but i'd rather play ER than the same old repetative formula that has myself and many bored with.
They are trying to do something that few other theme park style games have accomplished in recent years, take the tried and true mechanics that work and actually polish them up and release a solid title at launch. LotRO's about the only other game I can think of that did the same, and even then, their success was hardly spectacular, with most estimates of paid subs at between 150-300K prior to their new fremium launch.
I suspect Rift will start out strong and drop back to similar numbers after some of the other new titles launch in the next year or so.
Prediction - One day in the not so distant future (less than 2 years) it converts to the fremium model. These devs have proven they know how to copy what works, you can bet they've looked into this as well and probably is already on the books as "Plan B"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The game is no WoW clone, no more than a Nissan Pathfinder is a Honda Accord clone. Sure, there will be a lot that is very similar, but they are different vehicles. Someone could invent a totally different way to steer a car, accelerate a car, brake a car, arrange the knobs on the radio, etc... However, customers want something familiar, yet different.
Same with Fantasy MMORPGs. Devs aren't going to reinvent the wheel on basic concepts, controls and elements.
The differences are more about "personality" than the common, shared elements.
Rift does what it does very well and the game has a great MMO personality. Best of all, in culmination of all elements, is that the game is, for most people, fun.
I promise you, that if an MMORPG was released that reinvented everything, just for the sake of doing things different, it would be almost universally blasted for it. In fact, even when it comes down to individual game features, leaving out popular features from the genre in any new title is going to have a negative impact.
Like it or not, there is a pretty long checklist of features people are going to expect in an MMORPG before it has any chance of being accepted. If something is left out or has a totally different design to it, there better be a good reason for the change and the change better be at least as good, if not better, than the way it's usually done.
MMORPGs are very expensive and time consuming ventures. To try to reinvent a game completely from scratch, as if no previous MMORPG had ever existed, would be a huge financial risk for any company.
I wish there was a little more innovation in the genre, but I still expect that an innovative title will fit at least 90% of the existing standards, in order to be a viable project.
IMO, Rift has a lot more innovation than most titles, while doing just about everything else very well. Can't ask for much more and we often receive much less!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Asheron's Call 2.
And why change something that is working well? The AC2/WoW UI model, also used notably by EQ2 but also LOTRO, is smooth and functional.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Calling Alganon a "WoW clone" is not only an insult to WoW, but also to all the better "WoW clones". Hell, both Warhammer and Conan are way better than that pile of dung. Rift, of course, despite being also a "WoW clone", is miles above that failure of a game.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
this is my opinion as well. it will sell very well at the start.
Rift has 3 months tops, and thats for the super casuals, even medium weight players will be done with all the content except raid grinds by 1 month, to drop in a lot of new content in to retain the bulk of it's playerbase.
especially seeing as so many have seen easily 2/3 of the content already.
Those putting down for 6 month subs... confuse me. What is on offer is a 1-2 month game (3 for the super casual, like I say).
your missing the point being made.
The point being made by comparing apples and oranges is therefore invalid for me.
I could also take some random crappy indie game made by noob developers and pretend it's a WoW clone and therefore that's why it failed. But I won't.
Note that I agree that Rift's content right now is not enough to keep most players busy for more than a couple of months, as you can see in my post history here. But I don't agree that it's because it's a "WoW clone". The problems are somewhere else.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
You created an account to give this "review."
I brought this account out of retirement to comment on your "review."
[mod edit]
you type a wall of text titling it "critique" -- but there is none. you point out obvious similarities - but you dont say why they would be bad. its not only you, but many. where is your problem? you know, most first person shooters use a crosshair - most often they look exactly the same! doesnt define the game though, does it?
So you read a post, ignore the point being made, and just have a rant?
lol business as usual for around here then :P