funny that you bring up 2 examples that don't meet EITHER criteria.
sounds like trolling to me.
of course it could be just that you keep forgetting that other people want different things out of games, and that there's nothing wrong with that, and that maybe you shouldn't try to tell them what they SHOULD want. try to keep those things in mind when you post so it doesn't appear like trolling.
And I could almost say a similar evolutionary jump would make an Action MMO work, but it's a tough proposition considering how few strengths there are to the MMO format (and how many additional costs it incurs.)
problem is, that (i haven't played DCUO yet) none of the ones that have come out yet have left all the grindy MMO cliches in the past. they are still clinging to all the things i hate while not introducing the one thing i like.
the ONLY strength (for my tastes) is the immersive virtual world aspect. all the other cliches need to die.
Again, I think that's exactly why an otherwise amazing dev team (the Global Agenda guys) failed to hit a homerun. Without incurring those added costs (which gained them very little) they could've polished up the solid arena gameplay they had and turned it into a real success. Easier to say in hindsight, but either way the MMO elements clearly lacked enough tread to be worth it. (Although the true costs of adding MMO elements probably aren't as apparent to people who don't work in software/games.)
it gained them very little because
1) only TWO zones in the game could be considered to be an MMO. 2 zones do not a virtual world make.
2) while NOT having the strengths, they added the weaknesses. junking up the arena gameplay with levelling, gear-grind and all the other bullshit that me and the OP both want eliminated.
but unlike you, i don't look at poor implementations as a reason why nobody should ever attempt certain ideas ever again (like you seemed to suggest in that thread where i talked about how Anarchy Onlines generated missions should have become a staple of MMOs).
i work in software/games.
there's plenty of ideas yet to be implemented AT ALL, as well as plenty of good ideas that have only been attempted a few times in a very lackluster fashion.
Every video game has some form of grind. Lives, kills, powerups, gear, levels, missions, side quests, etc etc.
Their is no such thing as a grind less game. If people spent less time complaining about games and more time playing things they do and just button their fat freaking holes they might actually enjoy something again.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Every video game has some form of grind. Lives, kills, powerups, gear, levels, missions, side quests, etc etc.
Their is no such thing as a grind less game. If people spent less time complaining about games and more time playing things they do and just button their fat freaking holes they might actually enjoy something again.
then i suggest you to find and play games released 10-20 years ago.
There has to be a mass of people like myself completely over the grind aspect of mmos. It's a clever psychological tactic by developers: creating an addiction to the false sense of accomplishment level-ups and gear grinds provide. But, please, SOMEBODY, develop a good game, let's evolve.
Stop wasting development time with monotonous quests, environment, mobs and npcs; focus on the fun part. Go ALL OUT on character customization (Skills included), crafting and combat.
Highlights:
-NO GRIND, NO LEVELS, NO PIGEONHOLED CLASSES: Create an "end game" character from an enormous selection of skills (There would be a skill point cap, so players could only obtain a small portion of the available skills) from various archtypes, armor, and weaponry favoring certain play styles, from the beginning; with unlimited free respecs. Familiar customizable attributes: strength, endurance, agility, intelligence, willpower.
I would be intrested to read how you thought about obtaining those skills and/or attributes?
-QUICK, FLUID COMBAT: Savage 2's quick paced combat from third person w/ reticule, Darkfall's skill based archery/magic pvp for ranged.
This highly depends on the type of system a person might run a game, where many games have fluid combat yet not many people are able to run a game fluid due to their perhaps lower end system.
-PLAYER UNIQUE CRAFTING: including weaponsmithing, armorsmithing, alchemy, buff-creation, skill-creation etc. (Limiting players to one specialization, which can be changed, resetting progress). Weapon length, effects, durations, etc., all customizable. Crafting meant to give players even more customization, not a significant advantage.
Again like my first question how would you obtain this?
-ARENA FOCUSED GAMEPLAY OR SANDBOX PLAYER POLITICS OR COMBINE BOTH: FFA Elimination, Deathmatch, Team v Team (Varying sizes), Multi-Team, 2v2, 1v1, Etc. , with optional wager system (items, skills, materials, etc.), with crafting resources harvestable in the arena for the winner.
I don't like arena play in a MMORPG, for that I already play and enjoy that other genre called multiplayer games that I personaly enjoy more, not sure why this is even in today's MMORPG apart from it being easier to create then a open world feel.
-In depth player and guild stat system, game-supported tournaments and guild hierarchy.
-The popular medieval/fantasy setting
A world I think this could work in is a Darkfall-like sandbox. Pause your internal dialogue. Something similar. Player politics... instead of a major focus on resource aquisition, just make it about taking over the game world. Where guild cities are strategic points for launching attacks, defending chokepoints or portals to friendly cities. With an in-depth stat system, bragging rights for being a part of the dominant guild or coalition is all you need for constant conflict and fun. With an integrated arena system that can streamline organized combat and alter politics, the fun factor is multiplied and guaranteed. (A persistant world mmo without the grind and a ton of fun)
First try to explain how you have thought out in how to achieve all those things, it's far to easy to say what you want or even expect it to have a muliplied and guaranteed fun factor without actually saying how people could achieve those things without this so-called grind.
Am I alone, or is anyone else looking for something similar? I would gladly pay month to month for a game like this over these WoW clones.
Savage 2 Gameplay (Quick-paced third person combat - first person archery/casting)
I just feel that those who are bothered with grind are too focussed on their lvl raise instead of enjoying what is given., but I am also sure that what I might enjoy in a MMORPG could be seen by other people as grind. And as I said if someone write's about his needs and wants it would be great to see how that person would think about in how to achieve those things without this so-called grind you folks speak of.
Every video game has some form of grind. Lives, kills, powerups, gear, levels, missions, side quests, etc etc.
Their is no such thing as a grind less game. If people spent less time complaining about games and more time playing things they do and just button their fat freaking holes they might actually enjoy something again.
then i suggest you to find and play games released 10-20 years ago.
Well back then we saw/read the same complaint, only difference is that currently most MMORPG's offer a limited mostly combat oriented online game version of what we had.
Every video game has some form of grind. Lives, kills, powerups, gear, levels, missions, side quests, etc etc.
Their is no such thing as a grind less game. If people spent less time complaining about games and more time playing things they do and just button their fat freaking holes they might actually enjoy something again.
so you only have been playing games for the last 10 years or soapparently, and think you can impart some kind of sage wisdom from your obviously limited gaming experiences.
haha
i guess you really taught US that we really don't want what we think we want.
how about you spend more time in your awesome games and less time complaining that other people aren't like you?
There will always be a grind aspect to any MMO or any RPG game for that matter. It is the grind that keeps you playing and paying for months or even years.
why are you talking about RPGs? nowhere in the original post contains the word RPG. and i have specifically stated many times that i hate RPGs and that i want no RPG elements. and there is no need to point out the domain name of this site. we all SHOULD know why those letters are there despite the fact that they cover non-RPGs as well.
if you simply said "RPGs and grind go hand and hand and are intrinsically tied together", THAT i could agree with.
you obviously have no clue what "the grind" in this thread means.
why don't you start your own thread about all the possible ways "the grind" can be misconstrued. then it might have some relevance and people interested in hashing out all the possibilities can have a ball with it.
this thread doesn't need get sidetracked on semantic arguments. it SHOULD be obvious what is meant by "the grind" here, cuz there is plenty of context and specifics mentioned. i'm not gonna spoon feed it to you, if you can't be bothered to read the discussion.
There will always be a grind aspect to any MMO or any RPG game for that matter. It is the grind that keeps you playing and paying for months or even years.
why are you talking about RPGs? nowhere in the original post contains the word RPG. and i have specifically stated many times that i hate RPGs and that i want no RPG elements. and there is no need to point out the domain name of this site. we all SHOULD know why those letters are there despite the fact that they cover non-RPGs as well.
if you simply said "RPGs and grind go hand and hand and are intrinsically tied together", THAT i could agree with.
you obviously have no clue what "the grind" in this thread means.
why don't you start your own thread about all the possible ways "the grind" can be misconstrued. then it might have some relevance and people interested in hashing out all the possibilities can have a ball with it.
this thread doesn't need get sidetracked on semantic arguments. it SHOULD be obvious what is meant by "the grind" here, cuz there is plenty of context and specifics mentioned. i'm not gonna spoon feed it to you, if you can't be bothered to read the discussion.
I already edited my post... As I said I was very tired when I posted and misunderstood the OP completely. On this subject I actually have no comment.
The game i playd longest in my entire gameing history have been a multiplayer game, CSS i playd activly for 3-4 years. i have never playd a mmorpg even half as long as that game. i stil play that game just not activly anymore.
That grind/level/items are the only way to hook people for an extended time is false as most fps should show you. Some of em have a hugh following years after release but here as in any other genre it aint autowin just to make a competive fps game. You need to make the "right" competive game, as an fps player i cant even tell you the right formula to hook me. There are lots of little things that needs to be just right. Same for themepark games, they manage to hit on some of those spots but not enough of em to be as fun as other themepark games.
If done right competive gameing alone can hold you far longer then level/items does.
Most of the human race are competive to the core, we love to compete from we are smal to quite old one way or another.
Comments
the title of this thread is "
Where are the Grindless Action MMOS?
notice the words GRINDLESS and MMO.
funny that you bring up 2 examples that don't meet EITHER criteria.
sounds like trolling to me.
of course it could be just that you keep forgetting that other people want different things out of games, and that there's nothing wrong with that, and that maybe you shouldn't try to tell them what they SHOULD want. try to keep those things in mind when you post so it doesn't appear like trolling.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
problem is, that (i haven't played DCUO yet) none of the ones that have come out yet have left all the grindy MMO cliches in the past. they are still clinging to all the things i hate while not introducing the one thing i like.
the ONLY strength (for my tastes) is the immersive virtual world aspect. all the other cliches need to die.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
it gained them very little because
1) only TWO zones in the game could be considered to be an MMO. 2 zones do not a virtual world make.
2) while NOT having the strengths, they added the weaknesses. junking up the arena gameplay with levelling, gear-grind and all the other bullshit that me and the OP both want eliminated.
but unlike you, i don't look at poor implementations as a reason why nobody should ever attempt certain ideas ever again (like you seemed to suggest in that thread where i talked about how Anarchy Onlines generated missions should have become a staple of MMOs).
i work in software/games.
there's plenty of ideas yet to be implemented AT ALL, as well as plenty of good ideas that have only been attempted a few times in a very lackluster fashion.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Every video game has some form of grind. Lives, kills, powerups, gear, levels, missions, side quests, etc etc.
Their is no such thing as a grind less game. If people spent less time complaining about games and more time playing things they do and just button their fat freaking holes they might actually enjoy something again.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
then i suggest you to find and play games released 10-20 years ago.
I just feel that those who are bothered with grind are too focussed on their lvl raise instead of enjoying what is given., but I am also sure that what I might enjoy in a MMORPG could be seen by other people as grind. And as I said if someone write's about his needs and wants it would be great to see how that person would think about in how to achieve those things without this so-called grind you folks speak of.
Well back then we saw/read the same complaint, only difference is that currently most MMORPG's offer a limited mostly combat oriented online game version of what we had.
<Edited out>
Sorry I was very tired when I posted this and I misunderstood the what the OP was trying to convey.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
I don't get why you need Call of Duty to be massive.
Seems fun enough like it is.
so you only have been playing games for the last 10 years or soapparently, and think you can impart some kind of sage wisdom from your obviously limited gaming experiences.
haha
i guess you really taught US that we really don't want what we think we want.
how about you spend more time in your awesome games and less time complaining that other people aren't like you?
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
seems like no fun at all as it is.
can't make a good MMO based on a crappy game.
i guess you never will get why other people are different. its not news anybody needs to be informed of.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
why are you talking about RPGs? nowhere in the original post contains the word RPG. and i have specifically stated many times that i hate RPGs and that i want no RPG elements. and there is no need to point out the domain name of this site. we all SHOULD know why those letters are there despite the fact that they cover non-RPGs as well.
if you simply said "RPGs and grind go hand and hand and are intrinsically tied together", THAT i could agree with.
you obviously have no clue what "the grind" in this thread means.
why don't you start your own thread about all the possible ways "the grind" can be misconstrued. then it might have some relevance and people interested in hashing out all the possibilities can have a ball with it.
this thread doesn't need get sidetracked on semantic arguments. it SHOULD be obvious what is meant by "the grind" here, cuz there is plenty of context and specifics mentioned. i'm not gonna spoon feed it to you, if you can't be bothered to read the discussion.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
I already edited my post... As I said I was very tired when I posted and misunderstood the OP completely. On this subject I actually have no comment.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
The game i playd longest in my entire gameing history have been a multiplayer game, CSS i playd activly for 3-4 years. i have never playd a mmorpg even half as long as that game. i stil play that game just not activly anymore.
That grind/level/items are the only way to hook people for an extended time is false as most fps should show you. Some of em have a hugh following years after release but here as in any other genre it aint autowin just to make a competive fps game. You need to make the "right" competive game, as an fps player i cant even tell you the right formula to hook me. There are lots of little things that needs to be just right. Same for themepark games, they manage to hit on some of those spots but not enough of em to be as fun as other themepark games.
If done right competive gameing alone can hold you far longer then level/items does.
Most of the human race are competive to the core, we love to compete from we are smal to quite old one way or another.