If it has a hint of a similar mechanic or UI layout it will be labeled a clone of what it is similar to.
The only way for a "clone" to no longer be considered a clone, is if it is successful.
WoW was widely considered an EQ clone by the MMO community at large, up until it was considered a smash success.
Too bad then that no clone has been a success yet. I wonder why... oh maybe because people don't want to play the same game over and over again? AoC, LotRO, WAR, Aion, none of them did well because none of them have an serious identity. It's "WoW with Tolkien lore" or "WoW with boobs", ect ect.
WoW IS an EQ clone in terms of gameplay mechanics and goal, which is why most MMORPGs players ignored it when it came out and returned to their regular MMOs, they'd done it all before. WoW survives primarily on newbies coming into the market who never experienced these games already, so they don't know any better.
However, WoW cloned all of the addictive and broken features of EQ, while gutted any features that were complex, immersive, social, or redeeming.
Games that are WoW clones - Rift, LotRO, AoC, WAR(except for the RvR), Aion, what other MMOs have come out recently?
If it has a hint of a similar mechanic or UI layout it will be labeled a clone of what it is similar to.
The only way for a "clone" to no longer be considered a clone, is if it is successful.
WoW was widely considered an EQ clone by the MMO community at large, up until it was considered a smash success.
Too bad then that no clone has been a success yet. I wonder why... oh maybe because people don't want to play the same game over and over again? AoC, LotRO, WAR, Aion, none of them did well because none of them have an serious identity. It's "WoW with Tolkien lore" or "WoW with boobs", ect ect.
WoW IS an EQ clone in terms of gameplay mechanics and goal, which is why most MMORPGs players ignored it when it came out and returned to their regular MMOs, they'd done it all before. WoW survives primarily on newbies coming into the market who never experienced these games already, so they don't know any better.
However, WoW cloned all of the addictive and broken features of EQ, while gutted any features that were complex, immersive, social, or redeeming.
Games that are WoW clones - Rift, LotRO, AoC, WAR(except for the RvR), Aion, what other MMOs have come out recently?
Yeah, and which 'non-wow-clone' MMO has a decent sub compared to these 'wow-clones' again?
Aion with its 3.5M sub has to be such a failure right?!
If we consider all MMOs that is not WoW failures then every company in the IT industry is a failure except IBM, including Microsoft. IBM 99 billion vs MS 66 Billion for the year 2010
Back on topic: What is considered a WoW clone is up to the individual and I am not really sure why it is a bad-term.
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand?
Wow-clone term has no meaning when people (millions of people) are paying their sub fees for a game that they consider good enough to pay for. And I am not arrogant enough to say 'why are you paying for this game that doesn't suit MY taste/is a wow clone'.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
The term WoW clone is regularly used by the newbs to the genre. Anyone who's been around for a while knows better and either laughs at the term or gets annoyed by it. I laugh
Stylized cartoon graphics with ugly character models.
Ever evolving player community that seems to get younger and/or more immature, rather than aging and growing into it's own. It gets worse with age, not better.
Treadmill grinds.
The real meat of the game begins at cap level (anything of true significance, anyway).
Scripted boss fights and dungeon events.
Streamlined play that spoonfeeds you from lvl 0 - cap lvl... and when you get there, you will look like everyone else.
No frills at all: no guild halls, no player housing, no character model customization, no clothing/weapon customization (appearance - not the 'reforging' business).
Boredom after you hit cap level and find your class watered down enough that it's no longer fun. It's a bland, flat version of it's former glory and it will never recapture the magical/entertaining feeling that it once had.
The term WoW clone is regularly used by the newbs to the genre. Anyone who's been around for a while knows better and either laughs at the term or gets annoyed by it. I laugh
Please. Keep telling yourself that.
It's been stated over and over again, but so many people want to add some negative or positive connotation to the term: it's a point of reference. Calling something a WoW clone is an easy way to describe a particular type of themepark to someone who's unfamiliar, and it's being used by plenty of "veterans". It has nothing to do with being around longer, or having played MUD's or M59, or any of the other original staples of the MMO scene, but it does have everything to do with finding an accurate, astute manner in which to describe something to someone else without causing confusion. If you tell someone an MMO is a WoW clone, most people familiar with MMO's are going to understand what you mean.
Point of reference.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
If it has a hint of a similar mechanic or UI layout it will be labeled a clone of what it is similar to.
The only way for a "clone" to no longer be considered a clone, is if it is successful.
WoW was widely considered an EQ clone by the MMO community at large, up until it was considered a smash success.
Too bad then that no clone has been a success yet. I wonder why... oh maybe because people don't want to play the same game over and over again? AoC, LotRO, WAR, Aion, none of them did well because none of them have an serious identity. It's "WoW with Tolkien lore" or "WoW with boobs", ect ect.
WoW IS an EQ clone in terms of gameplay mechanics and goal, which is why most MMORPGs players ignored it when it came out and returned to their regular MMOs, they'd done it all before. WoW survives primarily on newbies coming into the market who never experienced these games already, so they don't know any better.
However, WoW cloned all of the addictive and broken features of EQ, while gutted any features that were complex, immersive, social, or redeeming.
Games that are WoW clones - Rift, LotRO, AoC, WAR(except for the RvR), Aion, what other MMOs have come out recently?
Yeah, and which 'non-wow-clone' MMO has a decent sub compared to these 'wow-clones' again?
Aion with its 3.5M sub has to be such a failure right?!
If we consider all MMOs that is not WoW failures then every company in the IT industry is a failure except IBM, including Microsoft. IBM 99 billion vs MS 66 Billion for the year 2010
Back on topic: What is considered a WoW clone is up to the individual and I am not really sure why it is a bad-term.
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand?
Wow-clone term has no meaning when people (millions of people) are paying their sub fees for a game that they consider good enough to pay for. And I am not arrogant enough to say 'why are you paying for this game that doesn't suit MY taste/is a wow clone'.
Funny you should bring up Aion, because it was a bad Lineage 2 clone that screwed itself up by trying to incorporate some of the features and play mechanics of ...you guessed it, WOW and all it's successors.
If they had stayed true to their orginal vision they would have made a far better and more fun game from my perspective, but no, they went down a different road and screwed the pooch.
To get back on topic you would actually have to post what a game would have to have to not be considered a WOW clone, which many posters did here, or...try to counter their arguments which you did not. (don't worry, you're not alone, lots of others failed to comprehend the topic either)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah, and which 'non-wow-clone' MMO has a decent sub compared to these 'wow-clones' again?
Aion with its 3.5M sub has to be such a failure right?!
If we consider all MMOs that is not WoW failures then every company in the IT industry is a failure except IBM, including Microsoft. IBM 99 billion vs MS 66 Billion for the year 2010
Back on topic: What is considered a WoW clone is up to the individual and I am not really sure why it is a bad-term.
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand?
Wow-clone term has no meaning when people (millions of people) are paying their sub fees for a game that they consider good enough to pay for. And I am not arrogant enough to say 'why are you paying for this game that doesn't suit MY taste/is a wow clone'.
Funny you should bring up Aion, because it was a bad Lineage 2 clone that screwed itself up by trying to incorporate some of the features and play mechanics of ...you guessed it, WOW and all it's successors.
If they had stayed true to their orginal vision they would have made a far better and more fun game from my perspective, but no, they went down a different road and screwed the pooch.
To get back on topic you would actually have to post what a game would have to have to not be considered a WOW clone, which many posters did here, or...try to counter their arguments which you did not. (don't worry, you're not alone, lots of others failed to comprehend the topic either)
Yeah, I'm bringing up Aion cause that's a game with a large sub base and fits what many on this forums will say is a 'wow-clone'.
In all that text about 'Aion' where you attach words like 'bad lineage 2 clone' to it, can you see that it is all subjective?
I don't really care for Jazz as it isn't my music taste, but to say it is a 'bad music' is ludicrous.
I'm not remotely concern on the mechanics (good or bad) as some gameplay mechanics are not for me but I bring it up cause it shows to the poster I quoted that a 'themepark' MMO can be a success.
Not really, what a game has to have/not have to attach a 'term' is purely subjective. I can label COD 'Doom-clones' cause I control it with a mouse/keyboard in First person view. I don't but that doesn't stop people from labelling as such.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I am curious, people throw this term around so often that the term seems to mean anything remotly EQ1&2/WoW like.
To be different from WoW - we need only look at traditional mmorpgs and pull a little from each or take things that they all had in common:
1. Housing (player and guild)
2. Non instanced objective based realm vs realm
3. Crafting of siege equipment for a non instanced objective based realm vs realm conflict
4. THREE factions - not just two - 3, so that no matter how imbalanced the first two are, there's always that wild card event when a third realm shows up to destroy a stalemate or zerg effect.
5. Graphics that remind us of human physiology - as opposed to saturday morning cartoon (i.e., hands that look human as opposed to swollen and bloated).
6. A sense that when we battle another realm, our victory affects all of their people, just like our loss affects all of ours, whether it's the loss of bonuses to combat, magic, or crafting, doesn't matter. The pvp has to matter to the level 1 guy who just logged in, as well as to the veteran elite raiding guild.
7. Classes and races that are believable. No, I'm not asking you to believe in elves. What I am saying is that warrior/spellcaster/rogue/healer types will be different based on their cultural interpretation of fighting, magic, healing, and subterfuge. This is why Spartans looked DIFFERENT than Persians, or why a 9th century samurai would have engaged a different style of combat vs say an 9th century viking.
8. An mmorpg that has the courage to affect all of the above, without dumbing down their title to appease everyone and thusly turn a tasty healthy menu into McDonalds - where so many are served yet so few truly satisfied.
This means that the following need not apply:
Tauren paladins and carbon copy death knights, priests of Mitra who kill other priest of Mitra, orcs and goblins who are too stupid to know they have a culture as well and are just farmed like meaningless Creeps, Champions whose only real enemy is the npc or the carbon copy classless class of the month next to them from the same spawn point, the world of endless quests where objective pvp is nothing more than a capture the flag mechanic once played by all of us on a playground as little kids, being able to log your toon so that in 6 minutes or less you can log in a toon from the enemy realm since there are more of them on tonight, lazy developers who tell you they will get you to RvR in the face and in reality have created a God awful product where they are so undereducated in the genre that even their Elven archers can merely hold one sword, and so on, and so on.
I am curious, people throw this term around so often that the term seems to mean anything remotly EQ1&2/WoW like.
To be different from WoW - we need only look at traditional mmorpgs and pull a little from each or take things that they all had in common:
1. Housing (player and guild)
2. Non instanced objective based realm vs realm
3. Crafting of siege equipment for a non instanced objective based realm vs realm conflict
4. THREE factions - not just two - 3, so that no matter how imbalanced the first two are, there's always that wild card event when a third realm shows up to destroy a stalemate or zerg effect.
5. Graphics that remind us of human physiology - as opposed to saturday morning cartoon (i.e., hands that look human as opposed to swollen and bloated).
6. A sense that when we battle another realm, our victory affects all of their people, just like our loss affects all of ours, whether it's the loss of bonuses to combat, magic, or crafting, doesn't matter. The pvp has to matter to the level 1 guy who just logged in, as well as to the veteran elite raiding guild.
7. Classes and races that are believable. No, I'm not asking you to believe in elves. What I am saying is that warrior/spellcaster/rogue/healer types will be different based on their cultural interpretation of fighting, magic, healing, and subterfuge. This is why Spartans looked DIFFERENT than Persians, or why a 9th century samurai would have engaged a different style of combat vs say an 9th century viking.
8. An mmorpg that has the courage to affect all of the above, without dumbing down their title to appease everyone and thusly turn a tasty healthy menu into McDonalds - where so many are served yet so few truly satisfied.
This means that the following need not apply:
Tauren paladins and carbon copy death knights, priests of Mitra who kill other priest of Mitra, orcs and goblins who are too stupid to know they have a culture as well and are just farmed like meaningless Creeps, Champions whose only real enemy is the npc or the carbon copy classless class of the month next to them from the same spawn point, the world of endless quests where objective pvp is nothing more than a capture the flag mechanic once played by all of us on a playground as little kids, being able to log your toon so that in 6 minutes or less you can log in a toon from the enemy realm since there are more of them on tonight, lazy developers who tell you they will get you to RvR in the face and in reality have created a God awful product where they are so undereducated in the genre that even their Elven archers can merely hold one sword, and so on, and so on.
If it has a hint of a similar mechanic or UI layout it will be labeled a clone of what it is similar to.
The only way for a "clone" to no longer be considered a clone, is if it is successful.
WoW was widely considered an EQ clone by the MMO community at large, up until it was considered a smash success.
Too bad then that no clone has been a success yet. I wonder why... oh maybe because people don't want to play the same game over and over again? AoC, LotRO, WAR, Aion, none of them did well because none of them have an serious identity. It's "WoW with Tolkien lore" or "WoW with boobs", ect ect.
WoW IS an EQ clone in terms of gameplay mechanics and goal, which is why most MMORPGs players ignored it when it came out and returned to their regular MMOs, they'd done it all before. WoW survives primarily on newbies coming into the market who never experienced these games already, so they don't know any better.
However, WoW cloned all of the addictive and broken features of EQ, while gutted any features that were complex, immersive, social, or redeeming.
Games that are WoW clones - Rift, LotRO, AoC, WAR(except for the RvR), Aion, what other MMOs have come out recently?
Yeah, and which 'non-wow-clone' MMO has a decent sub compared to these 'wow-clones' again?
EverQuest, DAoC, Eve, Fallen Earth, all still going pretty strong. Darkfall is also a pretty big success story, it's been steadily growing since launch, which can't be said for games like LotRO and AoC which has been declining since launch.
Aion with its 3.5M sub has to be such a failure right?!
In the western market? Yup, it collapsed pretty fast.
If we consider all MMOs that is not WoW failures we don't
Back on topic: What is considered a WoW clone is up to the individual and I am not really sure why it is a bad-term. It's not really up to the individual at all. it's a simple concept. If a game has the same mechanics, goals, style, and end game as WoW, with very few of its own core features or innovations... then its a WoW clone.
If it greatly resembles WoW... safe to call it a WoW clone.
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand? Because all those that want to play WoW are... wait for it... playing WoW! Novel idea.
Wow-clone term has no meaning when people (millions of people) are paying their sub fees for a game that they consider good enough to pay for Mostly because they've never played a real MMO or aren't interested in real MMOs. And I am not arrogant enough to say 'why are you paying for this game that doesn't suit MY taste/is a wow clone' Nobody here is saying that. .
Having at least a significant part of the game completly different.
Though you never will escape "its like wow but with ..." Simply because most know wow and this is the fastest way to explain a new game as most mmos are 90% the same from the way they are build.
some classes have the same names (because warrior, mage or cleric are just too generic)
rage and mana show up as resources
talent trees exist
It's getting boring for me, if:
no classes exist that don't also exist in WoW (because there is basically an infinite number of classes you can make up, no reaso to copycat all of them)
no resources except energy, rage and mana exist (because you could come up with lots of new ones if you'd just want to)
the whole talent system simply consists of three talent trees, that work exactly or nearly exactly the same as WoW
the graphics style is exactly the same
the game consists of a typical theme park world, some PvE dungeons, some PvE raids and battlegrounds, and doesn't invent anything new
the crafting works exactly the same as in WoW
The more of the second part show up, the more it reminds on WoW. Of course, I get bored even more easily, when the game has few races, starting zones, boring crafting, auto-target like combat, and so on.
Really? Cause I can think of a lot of MMORPGs that aren't WoW clones. WoW is the game that's so heavily instanced it's hardly an MMORPG.
Actually its called phasing but same difference.
Phasing is a form of instancing, and no, I'm not referring to just the phasing. The instanced dungeons, the instanced game worlds, the cross realm battegrounds, the dungeon finder, they all make the game smaller, less massive, much less social, and less persistant. It's more like Diablo than an MMO now.
some classes have the same names (because warrior, mage or cleric are just too generic)
rage and mana show up as resources
talent trees exist
It's getting boring for me, if:
no classes exist that don't also exist in WoW (because there is basically an infinite number of classes you can make up, no reaso to copycat all of them)
no resources except energy, rage and mana exist (because you could come up with lots of new ones if you'd just want to)
the whole talent system simply consists of three talent trees, that work exactly or nearly exactly the same as WoW
the graphics style is exactly the same
the game consists of a typical theme park world, some PvE dungeons, some PvE raids and battlegrounds, and doesn't invent anything new
the crafting works exactly the same as in WoW
The more of the second part show up, the more it reminds on WoW. Of course, I get bored even more easily, when the game has few races, starting zones, boring crafting, auto-target like combat, and so on.
So basically you're a huge fan of sandbox games now.
some classes have the same names (because warrior, mage or cleric are just too generic)
rage and mana show up as resources
talent trees exist
It's getting boring for me, if:
no classes exist that don't also exist in WoW (because there is basically an infinite number of classes you can make up, no reaso to copycat all of them)
no resources except energy, rage and mana exist (because you could come up with lots of new ones if you'd just want to)
the whole talent system simply consists of three talent trees, that work exactly or nearly exactly the same as WoW
the graphics style is exactly the same
the game consists of a typical theme park world, some PvE dungeons, some PvE raids and battlegrounds, and doesn't invent anything new
the crafting works exactly the same as in WoW
The more of the second part show up, the more it reminds on WoW. Of course, I get bored even more easily, when the game has few races, starting zones, boring crafting, auto-target like combat, and so on.
So basically you're a huge fan of sandbox games now.
So basically, if a game isn't WoW it's a sandbox now? Man, that's horrible logic. Just because you have a different class system, or a robust crafting system, or don't have quest based leveling, that does NOT mean you're a sandbox game. Jesus people. This is borderline brainwashing.
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand? Because all those that want to play WoW are... wait for it... playing WoW! Novel idea.
While this statement may be true for a number of people, I'd contest it that this applies to all WoW gamers, let alone the vast majority.
I know that I myself like to change from 1 RTS to a new one, or play 1 shooter and then another that may be very much alike in game mechanics, and the same applies to MMORPG's. There are quite a number of MMO gamers that are interested in something new in the (sub)genre they enjoyed, without that new game having to be wildly different from what they played before or revolutionary in innovation.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand? Because all those that want to play WoW are... wait for it... playing WoW! Novel idea.
While this statement may be true for a number of people, I'd contest it that this applies to all WoW gamers, let alone the vast majority.
I know that I myself like to change from 1 RTS to a new one, or play 1 shooter and then another that may be very much alike in game mechanics, and the same applies to MMORPG's. There are quite a number of MMO gamers that are interested in something new in the (sub)genre they enjoyed, without that new game having to be wildly different from what they played before or revolutionary in innovation.
I agree, and I'm sure that's in part, true. But judging from how many WoW clones sink after launching, I'd wager there are more people looking for something different, rather than a fresh take on WoW. Someone in the MMORPG market right now has a choice: WoW, a WoW clone, or an under funded indie game.
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand? Because all those that want to play WoW are... wait for it... playing WoW! Novel idea.
While this statement may be true for a number of people, I'd contest it that this applies to all WoW gamers, let alone the vast majority.
I know that I myself like to change from 1 RTS to a new one, or play 1 shooter and then another that may be very much alike in game mechanics, and the same applies to MMORPG's. There are quite a number of MMO gamers that are interested in something new in the (sub)genre they enjoyed, without that new game having to be wildly different from what they played before or revolutionary in innovation.
I agree, and I'm sure that's in part, true. But judging from how many WoW clones sink after launching, I'd wager there are more people looking for something different, rather than a fresh take on WoW. Someone in the MMORPG market right now has a choice: WoW, a WoW clone, or an under funded indie game.
As much as I would like to agree with you and say that the WoW clones failed because they were WoW clones, I think the fact that most of them were bug-ridden and unfinished had more of an effect on their failure than the fact that they were WoW clones.
Too bad then that no clone has been a success yet. I wonder why... oh maybe because people don't want to play the same game over and over again? AoC, LotRO, WAR, Aion, none of them did well because none of them have an serious identity. It's "WoW with Tolkien lore" or "WoW with boobs", ect ect.
WoW IS an EQ clone in terms of gameplay mechanics and goal, which is why most MMORPGs players ignored it when it came out and returned to their regular MMOs, they'd done it all before. WoW survives primarily on newbies coming into the market who never experienced these games already, so they don't know any better.
However, WoW cloned all of the addictive and broken features of EQ, while gutted any features that were complex, immersive, social, or redeeming.
Games that are WoW clones - Rift, LotRO, AoC, WAR(except for the RvR), Aion, what other MMOs have come out recently?
Yeah, and which 'non-wow-clone' MMO has a decent sub compared to these 'wow-clones' again?
EverQuest, DAoC, Eve, Fallen Earth, all still going pretty strong. Darkfall is also a pretty big success story, it's been steadily growing since launch, which can't be said for games like LotRO and AoC which has been declining since launch
Aion with its 3.5M sub has to be such a failure right?!
In the western market? Yup, it collapsed pretty fast.(Exhibit
If we consider all MMOs that is not WoW failures we don't (Exhibit A)
Back on topic: What is considered a WoW clone is up to the individual and I am not really sure why it is a bad-term. It's not really up to the individual at all. it's a simple concept. If a game has the same mechanics, goals, style, and end game as WoW, with very few of its own core features or innovations... then its a WoW clone. (Exhibit C)
If it greatly resembles WoW... safe to call it a WoW clone.
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand? Because all those that want to play WoW are... wait for it... playing WoW! Novel idea.
Wow-clone term has no meaning when people (millions of people) are paying their sub fees for a game that they consider good enough to pay for Mostly because they've never played a real MMO or aren't interested in real MMOs. (Exhibit D) And I am not arrogant enough to say 'why are you paying for this game that doesn't suit MY taste/is a wow clone' Nobody here is saying that. .
Lets logically look at this post shall we?
Exhibit A 'If we consider all MMOs that is not WoW failures we don't'
This is the previous quote from Garvon3
no clone has been a success yet
AoC, LotRO, WAR, Aion, none of them did well
So which one is it?
Exhibit B Citation needed. The only official numbers we have is 3.5M world-wide. Otherwise it is something you just made out of thin air.
Exhibit C Like I said previously, maybe I'm not arrogant enough to impose my opinion on what is/what isn't something on someone else? But if that's the criteria for calling something a 'clone', Half Life is a Doom-clone. Yeah, good luck with that.
Exhibit D What is a 'real' MMO? So WoW/Aion/DDO/LOTRO are all 'non-MMO's? I think you'll have some trouble convincing others to agree to that one. Just because you decided to call the color 'Blue' 'Green' doesn't mean others will accept that.
And of course 'You only like WoW cause you haven't played XYZ'. Yep, that's not arrogant at all. /sarcasm.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Comments
I find it odd that you say WoW clones arn't successfull then turn around and name off none "WoW clone" that are less successfull than the WoW clone.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I'm sure someone has already said it. To not be labeled as a WoW-Clone it must not be an mmo.
Even then we will see people say other games are.
UI, mobs, leveling, stats, instances, bosses, you name it, if a game has it, it's a wow clone. End of the story for many people.
This is a hilarious post.
Yeah, and which 'non-wow-clone' MMO has a decent sub compared to these 'wow-clones' again?
Aion with its 3.5M sub has to be such a failure right?!
If we consider all MMOs that is not WoW failures then every company in the IT industry is a failure except IBM, including Microsoft. IBM 99 billion vs MS 66 Billion for the year 2010
Back on topic: What is considered a WoW clone is up to the individual and I am not really sure why it is a bad-term.
The free market has been saying they want WoW or Wow-like games for the past 6 years, why not meet that demand?
Wow-clone term has no meaning when people (millions of people) are paying their sub fees for a game that they consider good enough to pay for. And I am not arrogant enough to say 'why are you paying for this game that doesn't suit MY taste/is a wow clone'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
The term WoW clone is regularly used by the newbs to the genre. Anyone who's been around for a while knows better and either laughs at the term or gets annoyed by it. I laugh
Stylized cartoon graphics with ugly character models.
Ever evolving player community that seems to get younger and/or more immature, rather than aging and growing into it's own. It gets worse with age, not better.
Treadmill grinds.
The real meat of the game begins at cap level (anything of true significance, anyway).
Scripted boss fights and dungeon events.
Streamlined play that spoonfeeds you from lvl 0 - cap lvl... and when you get there, you will look like everyone else.
No frills at all: no guild halls, no player housing, no character model customization, no clothing/weapon customization (appearance - not the 'reforging' business).
Boredom after you hit cap level and find your class watered down enough that it's no longer fun. It's a bland, flat version of it's former glory and it will never recapture the magical/entertaining feeling that it once had.
Please. Keep telling yourself that.
It's been stated over and over again, but so many people want to add some negative or positive connotation to the term: it's a point of reference. Calling something a WoW clone is an easy way to describe a particular type of themepark to someone who's unfamiliar, and it's being used by plenty of "veterans". It has nothing to do with being around longer, or having played MUD's or M59, or any of the other original staples of the MMO scene, but it does have everything to do with finding an accurate, astute manner in which to describe something to someone else without causing confusion. If you tell someone an MMO is a WoW clone, most people familiar with MMO's are going to understand what you mean.
Point of reference.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Funny you should bring up Aion, because it was a bad Lineage 2 clone that screwed itself up by trying to incorporate some of the features and play mechanics of ...you guessed it, WOW and all it's successors.
If they had stayed true to their orginal vision they would have made a far better and more fun game from my perspective, but no, they went down a different road and screwed the pooch.
To get back on topic you would actually have to post what a game would have to have to not be considered a WOW clone, which many posters did here, or...try to counter their arguments which you did not. (don't worry, you're not alone, lots of others failed to comprehend the topic either)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Personally- Style and Gameplay.
I'm willing to accept other aspects to be similar, but if those two things are the same than I don't see the point.
Yeah, I'm bringing up Aion cause that's a game with a large sub base and fits what many on this forums will say is a 'wow-clone'.
In all that text about 'Aion' where you attach words like 'bad lineage 2 clone' to it, can you see that it is all subjective?
I don't really care for Jazz as it isn't my music taste, but to say it is a 'bad music' is ludicrous.
I'm not remotely concern on the mechanics (good or bad) as some gameplay mechanics are not for me but I bring it up cause it shows to the poster I quoted that a 'themepark' MMO can be a success.
Not really, what a game has to have/not have to attach a 'term' is purely subjective. I can label COD 'Doom-clones' cause I control it with a mouse/keyboard in First person view. I don't but that doesn't stop people from labelling as such.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
To be different from WoW - we need only look at traditional mmorpgs and pull a little from each or take things that they all had in common:
1. Housing (player and guild)
2. Non instanced objective based realm vs realm
3. Crafting of siege equipment for a non instanced objective based realm vs realm conflict
4. THREE factions - not just two - 3, so that no matter how imbalanced the first two are, there's always that wild card event when a third realm shows up to destroy a stalemate or zerg effect.
5. Graphics that remind us of human physiology - as opposed to saturday morning cartoon (i.e., hands that look human as opposed to swollen and bloated).
6. A sense that when we battle another realm, our victory affects all of their people, just like our loss affects all of ours, whether it's the loss of bonuses to combat, magic, or crafting, doesn't matter. The pvp has to matter to the level 1 guy who just logged in, as well as to the veteran elite raiding guild.
7. Classes and races that are believable. No, I'm not asking you to believe in elves. What I am saying is that warrior/spellcaster/rogue/healer types will be different based on their cultural interpretation of fighting, magic, healing, and subterfuge. This is why Spartans looked DIFFERENT than Persians, or why a 9th century samurai would have engaged a different style of combat vs say an 9th century viking.
8. An mmorpg that has the courage to affect all of the above, without dumbing down their title to appease everyone and thusly turn a tasty healthy menu into McDonalds - where so many are served yet so few truly satisfied.
This means that the following need not apply:
Tauren paladins and carbon copy death knights, priests of Mitra who kill other priest of Mitra, orcs and goblins who are too stupid to know they have a culture as well and are just farmed like meaningless Creeps, Champions whose only real enemy is the npc or the carbon copy classless class of the month next to them from the same spawn point, the world of endless quests where objective pvp is nothing more than a capture the flag mechanic once played by all of us on a playground as little kids, being able to log your toon so that in 6 minutes or less you can log in a toon from the enemy realm since there are more of them on tonight, lazy developers who tell you they will get you to RvR in the face and in reality have created a God awful product where they are so undereducated in the genre that even their Elven archers can merely hold one sword, and so on, and so on.
I agree... with very nearly your entire post.
Well said.
Having at least a significant part of the game completly different.
Though you never will escape "its like wow but with ..." Simply because most know wow and this is the fastest way to explain a new game as most mmos are 90% the same from the way they are build.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
So different that it cant be called an mmorpg...
Well... for me it's basically like this:
It's perfectly fine, if:
some classes have the same names (because warrior, mage or cleric are just too generic)
rage and mana show up as resources
talent trees exist
It's getting boring for me, if:
no classes exist that don't also exist in WoW (because there is basically an infinite number of classes you can make up, no reaso to copycat all of them)
no resources except energy, rage and mana exist (because you could come up with lots of new ones if you'd just want to)
the whole talent system simply consists of three talent trees, that work exactly or nearly exactly the same as WoW
the graphics style is exactly the same
the game consists of a typical theme park world, some PvE dungeons, some PvE raids and battlegrounds, and doesn't invent anything new
the crafting works exactly the same as in WoW
The more of the second part show up, the more it reminds on WoW. Of course, I get bored even more easily, when the game has few races, starting zones, boring crafting, auto-target like combat, and so on.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Really? Cause I can think of a lot of MMORPGs that aren't WoW clones. WoW is the game that's so heavily instanced it's hardly an MMORPG.
Actually its called phasing but same difference.
Phasing is a form of instancing, and no, I'm not referring to just the phasing. The instanced dungeons, the instanced game worlds, the cross realm battegrounds, the dungeon finder, they all make the game smaller, less massive, much less social, and less persistant. It's more like Diablo than an MMO now.
So basically you're a huge fan of sandbox games now.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
So basically, if a game isn't WoW it's a sandbox now? Man, that's horrible logic. Just because you have a different class system, or a robust crafting system, or don't have quest based leveling, that does NOT mean you're a sandbox game. Jesus people. This is borderline brainwashing.
While this statement may be true for a number of people, I'd contest it that this applies to all WoW gamers, let alone the vast majority.
I know that I myself like to change from 1 RTS to a new one, or play 1 shooter and then another that may be very much alike in game mechanics, and the same applies to MMORPG's. There are quite a number of MMO gamers that are interested in something new in the (sub)genre they enjoyed, without that new game having to be wildly different from what they played before or revolutionary in innovation.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I agree, and I'm sure that's in part, true. But judging from how many WoW clones sink after launching, I'd wager there are more people looking for something different, rather than a fresh take on WoW. Someone in the MMORPG market right now has a choice: WoW, a WoW clone, or an under funded indie game.
As much as I would like to agree with you and say that the WoW clones failed because they were WoW clones, I think the fact that most of them were bug-ridden and unfinished had more of an effect on their failure than the fact that they were WoW clones.
Lets logically look at this post shall we?
Exhibit A 'If we consider all MMOs that is not WoW failures we don't'
This is the previous quote from Garvon3
no clone has been a success yet
AoC, LotRO, WAR, Aion, none of them did well
So which one is it?
Exhibit B Citation needed. The only official numbers we have is 3.5M world-wide. Otherwise it is something you just made out of thin air.
Exhibit C Like I said previously, maybe I'm not arrogant enough to impose my opinion on what is/what isn't something on someone else? But if that's the criteria for calling something a 'clone', Half Life is a Doom-clone. Yeah, good luck with that.
Exhibit D What is a 'real' MMO? So WoW/Aion/DDO/LOTRO are all 'non-MMO's? I think you'll have some trouble convincing others to agree to that one. Just because you decided to call the color 'Blue' 'Green' doesn't mean others will accept that.
And of course 'You only like WoW cause you haven't played XYZ'. Yep, that's not arrogant at all. /sarcasm.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.