Rift implementing WoW's dungeon finder.

Zzad

Originally posted by nerovipus32

well thats my pre-order cancelled, dungeon finder ruins the server community.

Don´t belive this TROLLING post dude.

Make sure to hear from Trion news and not from these trolling posts.....

Thay are planning of doing some LFG tool...but they have assure it wont be crossed server at all....

a lot of lies going around lately..... looks like some mmorpgs fans or employees are getting a little nervous at this upcoming launch

rottN

Originally posted by Zzad

Originally posted by nerovipus32

well thats my pre-order cancelled, dungeon finder ruins the server community.

Don´t belive this TROLLING post dude.

Make sure to hear from Trion news and not from these trolling posts.....

Thay are planning of doing some LFG tool...but they have assure it wont be crossed server at all....

a lot of lies going around lately..... looks like some mmorpgs fans or employees are getting a little nervous at this upcoming launch

yea its sad...

Garvon3

Originally posted by weirdtimes

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by weirdtimes

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by weirdtimes

People need to realize that change is going to happen no matter what, instanced is the way the MMO world is going and that is just how it is. If this is not the way you enjoy it, you can find a game that does run that way. Sadly, if you don't like how the MMO genre is heading then go to school, do Game Design and help change the problems you have with the genre. If not your like a person who cries about government yet refuses to vote.

That game was made 5 years ago and the instancing was why its now called a CORPG. Guild Wars.

How does that have anything to do with what I said? did you even read what I wrote?

Yeah, you said MMO's are going to be instanced. I said Guild Wars is that way and has been for 5 years. The instancing is why it is not an MMO. Once a game is entirely instanced it's no longer an MMO.

Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.

Players (Check)

Interaction (Check) (Instances still have interaction)

Virtual Game World (Check) a small world is still a world and is obviously virtual.

And if your wondering thats the actual recognized definition of MMORPG.

You're kind of forgetting a key word there.

MASSIVE.

Instances do not allow massive amounts of players to interact. So if we're going to go by that definition, you just lost. 

Garvon3

Originally posted by Goristro

If you don't like a dungeon finder, you don't have to use it.

That's like saying, "If you don't like quest based leveling, don't do any quests!" A LFG dungeon finder changes the entire feel of a game. It makes it incredibly anti social. People have little reason to group already, with how everything is based around solo quests, with the dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk to anyone EVER.

Comaf

Originally posted by bastionix

“About half” of Rift's content is found in dungeons and warfronts, Scott said. To this end, he stated that a dungeon queue system is just a matter of time. It will be cross-shard to reduce wait times. Although the idea seems to be unpopular (especially among the hardcore fansite representatives), Scott said that an auto-forming group finder is a necessity. “People love grouping, but hate to put a group together,” he said, noting that without an auto-group function, “we won't get people in there.”

http://rift.zam.com/story.html?story=25241

 

Is there anything left to copy I wonder sometimes, hmmm oO.

I agree and while it's nice from a social standpoint to have a dungeon finder (hereafter referred to as DF), the truth is this is something that should be unique to WoW.  WoW has massive maps, and a few instanced worlds (if you count each expansion zone as a separate world so to speak).  It makes sense that they need a DF with the size of their world. It also makes sense that WoW utilizes something that brings a  player as fast as possible or as efficiently as possible to where they get their main meat and potatoes from:  the dungeon quest system.

 

For Rifts, a next gen mmorpg (I would hope at least), I was hoping we would have to cross territory, either by an automated horse path (i.e., Dark Age of Camelot), via a friendly bard, by one's own mount, or otherwise.  Portals are nice as well *(i.e., Asheron's Call 1 and 2), or Moongates of some sort (Ultima Online).  By having to cross wilderness or traverse areas to get somewhere, something special immediately happens. On a pvp server it means we are more likely to be forced to engage one another.  Secondly, we get to actually see other people which is important to the health of a new as well as antiquated mmorpg.

 

My 2 cents.

Fargol

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Goristro

If you don't like a dungeon finder, you don't have to use it.

That's like saying, "If you don't like quest based leveling, don't do any quests!" A LFG dungeon finder changes the entire feel of a game. It makes it incredibly anti social. People have little reason to group already, with how everything is based around solo quests, with the dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk to anyone EVER.

No, actually, it isn't. If quests are the only practical way to level, then you have to.

You don't HAVE to use the DF. You and other like-minded people can do it the old-fashioned way.

And there's shouldn't have to be a reason to talk to anyone. You should want to, and as such, the presence or absense of a DF will not hinder that.

reb007

It's human nature to favor the path of least resistance. FFXI had an excellent method for finding and joining groups. You flagged yourself as LFG, and then a party leader could search through the players within their level range who were LFG and easily invite them. I still think that system is genious.

 

Dungeon Finders are basically the same exact thing. I really see no problem with that. It encourages grouping and makes it easier to find a group. Versus people avoiding groups all together and soloing the game.

fiontar

Originally posted by ormstunga

I dunno, I like the dungeon finder I just wish it wasnt cross-shard. Teaming up with ppl you'll most likely never ever see again just dont do it for me. It often ends badly and its rarely social. Warfront or dungeon dont matter, cross-shard just isnt my thing.

But as a tool the dungeon finder works. Not all games have world wide chat set up and finding groups can be a chore. I like to get things done while waiting for a party you know, not just stand around town spamming.

Dont care who copies what really as long as its well done and fills some kinda need.

I agree.

Finder = good. Cross-shard = bad. Save cross-shard capabilities for the future, when player population drops and the lower levels are more sparse. You do cross shard to keep a waning game alive, you don't do it at or near launch, just because WoW does it that way.

Ceridith

Originally posted by Fargol

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Goristro

If you don't like a dungeon finder, you don't have to use it.

That's like saying, "If you don't like quest based leveling, don't do any quests!" A LFG dungeon finder changes the entire feel of a game. It makes it incredibly anti social. People have little reason to group already, with how everything is based around solo quests, with the dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk to anyone EVER.

No, actually, it isn't. If quests are the only practical way to level, then you have to.

You don't HAVE to use the DF. You and other like-minded people can do it the old-fashioned way.

And there's shouldn't have to be a reason to talk to anyone. You should want to, and as such, the presence or absense of a DF will not hinder that.

Garvon is correct actually, and you're also contradicting yourself.

A LFD tool inherently makes itself required, because a large portion of players will use it. Yes, you can choose not to use it, however because the bulk of the rest of the players are using it, grouping without the tool become extremely difficult, hence making the tool a necessity in itself.

There should be several reasons to talk to people in an MMO. MMOs are supposed to be socially based games, otherwise what are you doing playing one? If you don't want to speak to other people, go player a single player game.

It's this kind of mentality that has turned so many MMO communities into pure crap.

Laughing-man

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Fargol

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Goristro

If you don't like a dungeon finder, you don't have to use it.

That's like saying, "If you don't like quest based leveling, don't do any quests!" A LFG dungeon finder changes the entire feel of a game. It makes it incredibly anti social. People have little reason to group already, with how everything is based around solo quests, with the dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk to anyone EVER.

No, actually, it isn't. If quests are the only practical way to level, then you have to.

You don't HAVE to use the DF. You and other like-minded people can do it the old-fashioned way.

And there's shouldn't have to be a reason to talk to anyone. You should want to, and as such, the presence or absense of a DF will not hinder that.

Garvon is correct actually, and you're also contradicting yourself.

A LFD tool inherently makes itself required, because a large portion of players will use it. Yes, you can choose not to use it, however because the bulk of the rest of the players are using it, grouping without the tool become extremely difficult, hence making the tool a necessity in itself.

There should be several reasons to talk to people in an MMO. MMOs are supposed to be socially based games, otherwise what are you doing playing one? If you don't want to speak to other people, go player a single player game.

It's this kind of mentality that has turned so many MMO communities into pure crap.

I find it funny all the people who exclaim that MMO's are social activies are saying its hard to find a dungeon party if there is a LFD tool in the game.

Does it some how prevent you from making in game friends and running dungeons with them?  No

I've been doing mostly all friend groups in WoW since LFD came out, I PUG rarely, I make new friends all the time.

I think that you are going a bit too "Chicken little" with this whole LFD thing.

Sovrath

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Goristro

If you don't like a dungeon finder, you don't have to use it.

That's like saying, "If you don't like quest based leveling, don't do any quests!" A LFG dungeon finder changes the entire feel of a game. It makes it incredibly anti social. People have little reason to group already, with how everything is based around solo quests, with the dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk to anyone EVER.

That's really getting to the crux of it.

I used to be of the mind that if a game had x and players hated it then they didn't have to use it. But the reality really goes more toward the forging of a community, a game world and a sense of how the community interacts with the world and eah other.

It seems that having consistency to the game world's systems allows for some sort of spine, a grounding to how players interact with each other.

Having systems in place that can be ignored or embraced by only a part of a community has a polarizing effect. What essentially happens is that there is a fracturing of the game's community.

Some might say "so what, isn't it the freedom of a game world that makes mmo's so appealing?"

To that I would say "yes" but only in the context of what things can be done in a game world. Having different game systems that are separated by server fractures the community.

Now, I don't know how this tool will manifest itself but if it's along the lines of something that puts together parties through concrete data (level, gear, class) and that's it, then that really will define how the community grows together.

In our real lives we don't date each other solely on criteria, don't base our friends solely on their jobs or what clothes they wear and if we do then those relationships are going to be pretty shallow.

If people are going to group then I can easily see a tool that let's people know who is doing what and that they are open to people. But if it's a tool that throws together people for one quest and we don't have any idea who we are grouping with then I think that's going to lend more to making the game more antisocial.

I've never hidden the fact that I enjoy soloing but when it's nice to be part of a community where everyone knows each other, knows the strengths and weaknesses and that the game doesn't devolve into us waiting in virtual lines so we can quickly do virtual tasks so we can move on to other virtural tasks.

 

It comes down to different types of people who want different types of interaction and a congruency in how they can interact.

watchawatcha

Originally posted by wasim470

I was thinking to my self ..... what if WOW didn't exist in the first place ...... what would Rift be like ????

hummm maybe ...... It would vanish       LOL

Doubtful considering WoW wasn't the first MMO.  Everquest was before WoW and Scott Hartsman worked on Everquest...so, something tells me Rift would still be an MMORPG that existed.

fadis

And TRION spits the bit in the last leg of the race...

 

Ceridith

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Fargol

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Goristro

If you don't like a dungeon finder, you don't have to use it.

That's like saying, "If you don't like quest based leveling, don't do any quests!" A LFG dungeon finder changes the entire feel of a game. It makes it incredibly anti social. People have little reason to group already, with how everything is based around solo quests, with the dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk to anyone EVER.

No, actually, it isn't. If quests are the only practical way to level, then you have to.

You don't HAVE to use the DF. You and other like-minded people can do it the old-fashioned way.

And there's shouldn't have to be a reason to talk to anyone. You should want to, and as such, the presence or absense of a DF will not hinder that.

Garvon is correct actually, and you're also contradicting yourself.

A LFD tool inherently makes itself required, because a large portion of players will use it. Yes, you can choose not to use it, however because the bulk of the rest of the players are using it, grouping without the tool become extremely difficult, hence making the tool a necessity in itself.

There should be several reasons to talk to people in an MMO. MMOs are supposed to be socially based games, otherwise what are you doing playing one? If you don't want to speak to other people, go player a single player game.

It's this kind of mentality that has turned so many MMO communities into pure crap.

I find it funny all the people who exclaim that MMO's are social activies are saying its hard to find a dungeon party if there is a LFD tool in the game.

Does it some how prevent you from making in game friends and running dungeons with them?  No

I've been doing mostly all friend groups in WoW since LFD came out, I PUG rarely, I make new friends all the time.

I think that you are going a bit too "Chicken little" with this whole LFD thing.

Amount of people I met who I became friends with and then regularly grouped with for a period outside of my guild Pre LFD tool in WoW: 30

Amount of people I met who I became friends with and then regularly grouped without outside of my guild post LFD tool in WoW: 0

The truth of it is that it really does impede growth in the community. Before the cross server LFD tool, if I grouped with someone who was nice/funny/good, I usually friended them and grouped with them in the future. Usually we'd have no problem forming our own groups once we had our little network of people.

After the LFD tool, this completely changed. The few times I did end up grouping with someone who I'd want to group with again, or heck even talk to, I couldn't because they were on a different server. Of course, the onslaught of terrible experiences in the LFD tool itself pushed me into more exclusively grouping within the guild I'm in, which again, further limits community growth by promoting cliques.

It's really not by any means "chicken little", it's historical evidence from what happened in WoW.

If RIFT has a cross server LFD tool implemented, it will destroy the game's community, turning it into another B.net kiddie fest.

Biohunter

I would not consider this another "wow rip pff move". More of a "following the pack" move. Lets keep in mind other games have this feature. Champions Online and LoTRO have similar features. Also this is an option. I for one am not a fan of it but, I do appreciate the option. We as players do not have to use it and if it is not used, then it can also be taken out of the game. Just my 2 cents.

Z3R01

How do you keep cross server queue mechanics from ruining your server community? Instead of saying "don't put one in!!". Lets look at what Rift has to offer. Unlike WoW, Rift promotes group play outside instances. There are mechanics in place that have nothing to do with cross server queueing. Would that not keep the community intact? What about Capturable wardstones and zone wide raid bosses? Are these also tied into queues? If you actually look at rift, instead of focusing on what happened to wow you would realize that rift won't be affected in the same way. What is there to do besides queue for dungeons & Bgs in wow? *Crickets*

Laughing-man

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Fargol

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Goristro

If you don't like a dungeon finder, you don't have to use it.

That's like saying, "If you don't like quest based leveling, don't do any quests!" A LFG dungeon finder changes the entire feel of a game. It makes it incredibly anti social. People have little reason to group already, with how everything is based around solo quests, with the dungeon finder, there's no reason to talk to anyone EVER.

No, actually, it isn't. If quests are the only practical way to level, then you have to.

You don't HAVE to use the DF. You and other like-minded people can do it the old-fashioned way.

And there's shouldn't have to be a reason to talk to anyone. You should want to, and as such, the presence or absense of a DF will not hinder that.

Garvon is correct actually, and you're also contradicting yourself.

A LFD tool inherently makes itself required, because a large portion of players will use it. Yes, you can choose not to use it, however because the bulk of the rest of the players are using it, grouping without the tool become extremely difficult, hence making the tool a necessity in itself.

There should be several reasons to talk to people in an MMO. MMOs are supposed to be socially based games, otherwise what are you doing playing one? If you don't want to speak to other people, go player a single player game.

It's this kind of mentality that has turned so many MMO communities into pure crap.

I find it funny all the people who exclaim that MMO's are social activies are saying its hard to find a dungeon party if there is a LFD tool in the game.

Does it some how prevent you from making in game friends and running dungeons with them?  No

I've been doing mostly all friend groups in WoW since LFD came out, I PUG rarely, I make new friends all the time.

I think that you are going a bit too "Chicken little" with this whole LFD thing.

Amount of people I met who I became friends with and then regularly grouped with for a period outside of my guild Pre LFD tool in WoW: 30

Amount of people I met who I became friends with and then regularly grouped without outside of my guild post LFD tool in WoW: 0

The truth of it is that it really does impede growth in the community. Before the cross server LFD tool, if I grouped with someone who was nice/funny/good, I usually friended them and grouped with them in the future. Usually we'd have no problem forming our own groups once we had our little network of people.

After the LFD tool, this completely changed. The few times I did end up grouping with someone who I'd want to group with again, or heck even talk to, I couldn't because they were on a different server. Of course, the onslaught of terrible experiences in the LFD tool itself pushed me into more exclusively grouping within the guild I'm in, which again, further limits community growth by promoting cliques.

It's really not by any means "chicken little", it's historical evidence from what happened in WoW.

If RIFT has a cross server LFD tool implemented, it will destroy the game's community, turning it into another B.net kiddie fest.

Citing personal experience as historical fact is silly sir.

I've made a few friends from the LFD tool, infact if I see someone from my server when I'm using it I generally ask them if they'll run another dungeon and or if they're good enough friend request them. 

I mean I can see how your experience is entirely possible, I'm just saying I didn't share it, mine was quite different.

Ceridith

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Ceridith

...

Citing personal experience as historical fact is silly sir.

I've made a few friends from the LFD tool, infact if I see someone from my server when I'm using it I generally ask them if they'll run another dungeon and or if they're good enough friend request them. 

I mean I can see how your experience is entirely possible, I'm just saying I didn't share it, mine was quite different.

Okay then, if you want more proof try the following in WoW:

1. Log in.

2. Go to the nearest city.

3. Spam general, trade chat, and yell that you're looking for a dungeon group.

If you find a group I would be absolutely amazed, because any person doing that would very likely be called a noob, told to "shut up" (but far less nicely), and told to use the dungeon finder.

Unless you already know people, it's incredibly more difficult to form a group without using LFD tool, let alone forming friendships with other players.

Consider that for the handful of people you may have befriended through LFD who just happened to also play on your server, how many more people you may have met and socialized with if you were confined to only grouping with people on your server. My guess is that the frequency would increase significantly.

As it is, most people in LFD barely even say a word, and the times they do it's more often than not to yell at the other people in the group. There's barely any reason to socialize, let alone behave, when using the LFD tool, and the players have taken that to heart.

josh81

Originally posted by gigat

It's human nature to favor the path of least resistance. FFXI had an excellent method for finding and joining groups. You flagged yourself as LFG, and then a party leader could search through the players within their level range who were LFG and easily invite them. I still think that system is genious.

 

Dungeon Finders are basically the same exact thing. I really see no problem with that. It encourages grouping and makes it easier to find a group. Versus people avoiding groups all together and soloing the game.

While it was a great system you'd have people flag up for LFG and go AFK OR you'd see a DRG LFG and be like "Nah nevermind it's a DRG" Well with the system that Blizzard has in place at least all jobs have a chance of getting facetime in a dungeon as opposed to players going "Ok this formula works we're not going to break it" which a lot of MMOs basically set you up to do, hell even FFXI did it with the KS and BS runs (All BLMs) but again that's a whole nother problem of MMOs being more about itemization than innovation and allowing for thinking outside of the box. 

Alot

Isn't it amazing that the possibility of one feature being added to a game can generate a 28-page thread in two days?

david361107

this is easy, you don't like dungeon finder? *picks up the phone attached to pack on his side* "let this person not use dungeon finder and be able to use their brain and spam chat to pick up a group" *hangs up phone" done (allstate ad if you don't know)

Ceridith

Originally posted by david361107

this is easy, you don't like dungeon finder? *picks up the phone attached to pack on his side* "let this person not use dungeon finder and be able to use their brain and spam chat to pick up a group" *hangs up phone" done (allstate ad if you don't know)

Try "opting out" of LFD by manually putting together groups without friends in a game with a LFD tool.

You can't.

Hence why the existence of a LFD tool makes it non-optional to use if you want any hope in hell of forming a pick-up-group.

Don't believe me? Try it in WoW.

Drakynn

Originally posted by Alot

Isn't it amazing that the possibility of one feature being added to a game can generate a 28-page thread in two days?

this is nothing go look at the official forums and check out how many pages it's generated there.

Z3R01

Originally posted by Ceridith


Originally posted by david361107

this is easy, you don't like dungeon finder? *picks up the phone attached to pack on his side* "let this person not use dungeon finder and be able to use their brain and spam chat to pick up a group" *hangs up phone" done (allstate ad if you don't know)

Try "opting out" of LFD by manually putting together groups without friends in a game with a LFD tool.

You can't.

Hence why the existence of a LFD tool makes it non-optional to use if you want any hope in hell of forming a pick-up-group.

Don't believe me? Try it in WoW.

 

Why can't I use the players that are on my friends list through questing? What about Rift/invasions? World pvp? World raid encounters? Are those people suddenly deleted off my list because I now have the convenience of queueing for a dungeon?

josh81

Okay then, if you want more proof try the following in WoW:

1. Log in.

2. Go to the nearest city.

3. Spam general, trade chat, and yell that you're looking for a dungeon group.

If you find a group I would be absolutely amazed, because any person doing that would very likely be called a noob, told to "shut up" (but far less nicely), and told to use the dungeon finder.

Unless you already know people, it's incredibly more difficult to form a group without using LFD tool, let alone forming friendships with other players.

Consider that for the handful of people you may have befriended through LFD who just happened to also play on your server, how many more people you may have met and socialized with if you were confined to only grouping with people on your server. My guess is that the frequency would increase significantly.

As it is, most people in LFD barely even say a word, and the times they do it's more often than not to yell at the other people in the group. There's barely any reason to socialize, let alone behave, when using the LFD tool, and the players have taken that to heart.

Actually I see shouts for parties in trade all the time and no one calls them a noob or or told to shut up,  nor does anyone automatically shout use the LFD tool, again basing what you see on your own server and such does not equate to across all servers. 

 

Let me ask you this, how many times have you iniated some kind of socializing? Other than saying hi, whats up, sup, ect ect and just because they didn't answer you stopped dead in your tracks and just didn't utter a word the rest of the way yet sit in your guild chat and bitch about it? And once you put someone on your RealID through Battle.net regardless of what Blizzard game or server they are on you can still talk to them so you are still socializing. 

 

And if someone does yell at someone in my LFD usually everyone is thinking that said person is an ass, but here's what kills me is NO ONE SPEAKS UP ABOUT IT. So in essence it's not the LFD tools fault that people are in a party with spineless other non confrontational people, so I will say something about it and usually will just say "Dont be a <Insert catchy adjective here>" and if they continue that's what the nifty little Vote kick is for. 

 

In the end it's not a design flaw it's a community flaw because while you have EVERY MMO filled with the jackasses that can ruin a LFD you have just as many spinless people that will sit there and allow it without utilizing ALL of the features of said tool, or take the extra 5-10 minutes after your dungeon remember the player, server, guild ect. If they are in a guild look them up in the armory find their GM create a toon on their server hit the nearest mailbox if they aren't on shoot them a mail, and post on their server forums, all the while reporting them (Although we know that usually never ammounts to anything.) But you are still working at your part as a COMMUNITY member because who knows in a few months they might offer a free migration and some people can be on your server.