"I don't have enough time" - The root of all evil in modern MMO's?

Kyleran

We've all seen it, the phrase "I don't have enough time" used to justify why players demand game mechanics so prevalent in most modern MMORPG's.

Don't have enough time to find a group?  Design content so most of it can be solo'd in small spurts, effecively killing grouping.  For good measure toss in a cross realm dungeon finder to really save time and drive another nail in the coffin of player socialization.

Not enough time to travel to destinations?  Put lots of instant travel options into games so players don't get a chance to socialize while moving from A to B.

Not enough time to level up a character? Though a complaint not often seen these days, it was used heavily in the past by players who would pay other folks to level up their characters for them.  Same with gold buying as well, not enough time to earn the gold myself, so I went out and paid someone else who was willing to do it for me.

Rich, detailed crafting systems?  Who in the world has time for that?  Make the best gear come from drops, preferably from those instant queued dungeons we designed for players without enough time to play the game.

Engaging open world PVP content?  Well that has to go, who has time to run around a vast wilderness looking for fair and balanced fights, much better if we let them queue up for cross realm pvp instanced matches to make sure their vaulable time isn't wasted.

Sigh, I could go on but why bother? It's pretty obvious that developers have sacrificed much of what actually gave MMORPG's their heart and soul in order to appeal to the "causal player" with everything from quest givers and large icons above their heads to arrows that direct the player right to their destination. 

Socialization mechanics such as forced downtime, strong group encouragement and the like have all given way to make MMORPG's quick and easy games for people to "enjoy" but at the same time they've lost so much of the magic I used to enjoy.

BTW, I've a 50+ year old player who's held a full time job, raised a family all during the time I've played MMORPG's. I never was one of those folks who could claim that I had more time in my younger days and now don't have the time to play them anymore. Few people have had less time than I to enjoy MMORPG's really, so that arguement carries no real weight for me.

Yeah, I know, I'm a dinosaur and need to learn that the MMORPG world has moved on without me but still I hope in time players in the 2nd generation of MMORPG's will one day reconsider and take the time to really enjoy these virtual worlds and not just play them like a quick-hit "game"

 

Gabby-air

I've started using the "I don't have time" excuse recently because I have a lot of things on my plate but I just need my MMO fix but that doesn't mean I bitch on the forums of every game to reduce the grind. I simply find a game that actually work for me, which I just started playing this weekend and is Guild wars. You'll be surprised though, even with a lot of time sinks out MMOs still in general require a hefty time investment so i understand people that make these statements but what I don't understand is...Why not just switch to console gaming?

Console gaming is meant for people like that, which just want a quick in and out and have fun even in 10 minutes but the problem is that people are now expecting this from MMO's which are meant to be a commitment more or so. Sure there's people like me that just can't live without MMO's and need their fix so they find games that work with their schedule but in general people need to just stay away from MMOs if they aren't willing to put the time into them.

But then you have devs caving into these demands, like you said cutting out a lot of features that MMO players love to appeal to casual gamers but it's not enough and it would only be enough when MMO's are no different than call of duty.

Unknown

Originally posted by Gabby-air

 You'll be surprised though, even with a lot of time sinks out MMOs still in general require a hefty time investment so i understand people that make these statements but what I don't understand is...Why not just switch to console gaming?

 

TY TY yes.

spookydom

I am working 12 hour days at the moment and I really don't have enough time. But at the same....ummmm....time, I would rather spend thoes moments I do have in a rich and open diynamic world than something that has instant gratification. I just put into it the time I have. Yeah, It takes me 17 years to level to cap and I am never available on raid nights. But I still have fun and would never wish for a game I love to change just becouse I don't have time to see all of it or play in 40 hour sessions like I once did.

Unknown

Originally posted by Kyleran

We've all seen it, the phrase "I don't have enough time" used to justify why players demand game mechanics so prevalent in most modern MMORPG's.

Don't have enough time to find a group?  Design content so most of it can be solo'd in small spurts, effecively killing grouping.  For good measure toss in a cross realm dungeon finder to really save time and drive another nail in the coffin of player socialization.

Not enough time to travel to destinations?  Put lots of instant travel options into games so players don't get a chance to socialize while moving from A to B.

Not enough time to level up a character? Though a complaint not often seen these days, it was used heavily in the past by players who would pay other folks to level up their characters for them.  Same with gold buying as well, not enough time to earn the gold myself, so I went out and paid someone else who was willing to do it for me.

Rich, detailed crafting systems?  Who in the world has time for that?  Make the best gear come from drops, preferably from those instant queued dungeons we designed for players without enough time to play the game.

Engaging open world PVP content?  Well that has to go, who has time to run around a vast wilderness looking for fair and balanced fights, much better if we let them queue up for cross realm pvp instanced matches to make sure their vaulable time isn't wasted.

Sigh, I could go on but why bother? It's pretty obvious that developers have sacrificed much of what actually gave MMORPG's their heart and soul in order to appeal to the "causal player" with everything from quest givers and large icons above their heads to arrows that direct the player right to their destination. 

Socialization mechanics such as forced downtime, strong group encouragement and the like have all given way to make MMORPG's quick and easy games for people to "enjoy" but at the same time they've lost so much of the magic I used to enjoy.

BTW, I've a 50+ year old player who's held a full time job, raised a family all during the time I've played MMORPG's. I never was one of those folks who could claim that I had more time in my younger days and now don't have the time to play them anymore. Few people have had less time than I to enjoy MMORPG's really, so that arguement carries no real weight for me.

Yeah, I know, I'm a dinosaur and need to learn that the MMORPG world has moved on without me but still I hope in time players in the 2nd generation of MMORPG's will one day reconsider and take the time to really enjoy these virtual worlds and not just play them like a quick-hit "game"

 

I'm right there with ya. Somehow, I'm 23 years old, in the army, with a wife and daughter. I easily find time to play Vanguard....the one game that hasn't given in to the 'casuals'(possibly it's reason for the small playerbase but the vet stay with it because it hasn't gone 'casual'.)

drbaltazar

it always makes me laugh !the way wow progression work in dungeon(i think raid also)is say you are at first boss!your client call for an emergency ,you have to log off.now the excuse dont have time doesnt apply cause you will be locked only to the part you have done so you can continue with another groupwhere you are at .and everquest even went so far as to make a new timelocked server .so that when you got in you start at the beginning!and unless you are unlucky enough that some smart ass decide to vote to make the server progress faster even tho the vast amjority havent reached that point yet.you will progress at your pace .

so the no time is getting more and more irelevent.

as for the everquest idea about timelocked server its a great idea but when i went online today player were already hard at work trying to find ways to FORCE  the server to progress faster.so we ll have to wait to see how this will pan out .but i dont understand?why go to a casual player server if you want to play endgame content very quick.it baffle me .

those player act like other player should be forced to progress at their pace ,as we saw when everquest did this last time player started leaving fast cause they just couldnt keep up with powerleveller that have more time.

vet !please dont roll on the new server tomorrow if you dont want the server to stay in eq1-1 .just stay on your actual server .and let casual player progress at their pace for once!

ThomasN7

Maybe some are just not meant to have time for mmos. The only real lengthy gaming time I get is when everyone is a sleep and I have no work the next day these days. Real life responsibilities take away gaming time and that is how it should be. MMO devs can't cater to everyone all the time.

jpnz

I wouldn't call it 'evil'. Is it evil to use the washing machine cause I don't want to hand-wash my laundry?

To many MMO players, asking them to wait for immersion and do the 'not fun' stuff is a puzzling question.

To each their own.

Axehilt

Originally posted by Kyleran

Engaging open world PVP content?  Well that has to go, who has time to run around a vast wilderness looking for fair and balanced fights, much better if we let them queue up for cross realm pvp instanced matches to make sure their vaulable time isn't wasted.

Um...when did "fair" or "balanced" ever happen?  World PVP by definition is 99.9% one-sided (and thus uninteresting) slaughters.  That's sort of the point.  That's what those players want.  The time involved searching out opponents was just one more negative heaped on a stack of negatives.

But in reply to your actual intent: for every point that's true in your post (fast dungeon groups lessening socialization) there's one that's false (traveling is fun exactly once.  Then it's a chore.)

Personally I think if you pinned WOW's success on a single trait, it was that they axed as many unnecessary or inefficient game systems as possible in pursuit of a more pure gaming experience that more people would stick with.  A large part of what got axed were the unnecessary timesinks.  When you carve away the fat and get to the pure gaming core in the center, more people are going to stick around.  (And as I usually note, WOW is hardly some miraculous, mistake-free game that did everything flawless.  They had a lot of mistakes at release and still could improve a lot.  But it's a little like democracy: the worst form of MMORPG, except for all the MMORPGs that came before it.)

Shawk

Originally posted by Kyleran

We've all seen it, the phrase "I don't have enough time" used to justify why players demand game mechanics so prevalent in most modern MMORPG's.

Don't have enough time to find a group?  Design content so most of it can be solo'd in small spurts, effecively killing grouping.  For good measure toss in a cross realm dungeon finder to really save time and drive another nail in the coffin of player socialization.

Not enough time to travel to destinations?  Put lots of instant travel options into games so players don't get a chance to socialize while moving from A to B.

Not enough time to level up a character? Though a complaint not often seen these days, it was used heavily in the past by players who would pay other folks to level up their characters for them.  Same with gold buying as well, not enough time to earn the gold myself, so I went out and paid someone else who was willing to do it for me.

Rich, detailed crafting systems?  Who in the world has time for that?  Make the best gear come from drops, preferably from those instant queued dungeons we designed for players without enough time to play the game.

Engaging open world PVP content?  Well that has to go, who has time to run around a vast wilderness looking for fair and balanced fights, much better if we let them queue up for cross realm pvp instanced matches to make sure their vaulable time isn't wasted.

Sigh, I could go on but why bother? It's pretty obvious that developers have sacrificed much of what actually gave MMORPG's their heart and soul in order to appeal to the "causal player" with everything from quest givers and large icons above their heads to arrows that direct the player right to their destination. 

Socialization mechanics such as forced downtime, strong group encouragement and the like have all given way to make MMORPG's quick and easy games for people to "enjoy" but at the same time they've lost so much of the magic I used to enjoy.

BTW, I've a 50+ year old player who's held a full time job, raised a family all during the time I've played MMORPG's. I never was one of those folks who could claim that I had more time in my younger days and now don't have the time to play them anymore. Few people have had less time than I to enjoy MMORPG's really, so that arguement carries no real weight for me.

Yeah, I know, I'm a dinosaur and need to learn that the MMORPG world has moved on without me but still I hope in time players in the 2nd generation of MMORPG's will one day reconsider and take the time to really enjoy these virtual worlds and not just play them like a quick-hit "game"

 

Completely agree with you brother, wish i read this before posting my thread..

I hope one day the Majority gets this..

Shawk

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Kyleran

Engaging open world PVP content?  Well that has to go, who has time to run around a vast wilderness looking for fair and balanced fights, much better if we let them queue up for cross realm pvp instanced matches to make sure their vaulable time isn't wasted.

Um...when did "fair" or "balanced" ever happen?  World PVP by definition is 99.9% one-sided (and thus uninteresting) slaughters.  That's sort of the point.  That's what those players want.  The time involved searching out opponents was just one more negative heaped on a stack of reasons why world PVP sucks.

But in reply to your actual intent: for every point that's true in your post (fast dungeon groups lessening socialization) there's one that's false (traveling is fun exactly once.  Then it's a chore.)

Personally I think if you pinned WOW's success on a single trait, it was that they axed as many unnecessary or inefficient game systems as possible in pursuit of a more pure gaming experience that more people would stick with.  A large part of what got axed were the unnecessary timesinks.  When you carve away the fat and get to the pure gaming core in the center, more people are going to stick around.  (And as I usually note, WOW is hardly some miraculous, mistake-free game that did everything flawless.  They had a lot of mistakes at release and still could improve a lot.  But it's a little like democracy: the worst form of MMORPG, except for all the MMORPGs that came before it.)

 

Every point you made was completely wrong, and I'm trying to be fair when I say that, unfortunately you are one of these people who clearly started playing this genre later after its originalty died, and/or you just have a differen't idea of what a MMO is suppose to be... Clearly the wrong idea, but different none the less.

What you want out of a MMO could come from a generic RPG, you don't need it to be a MMORPG, a 100% instanced server could fill your desires, but alas, that is NOT a MMO.

ormstunga

Originally posted by Axehilt

Um...when did "fair" or "balanced" ever happen?  World PVP by definition is 99.9% one-sided (and thus uninteresting) slaughters.  That's sort of the point.  That's what those players want.  The time involved searching out opponents was just one more negative heaped on a stack of reasons why world PVP sucks.

 I dont get this at all. World pvp is thrilling. That is, if you know what you're doing and actually like pvp. If its the kind of game where high levels run around camping lowbies then ofc its uninteresting and not fun.

But the feeling of roaming around in a party not knowing the numbers or strength of your next encounter, thats a huge thrill for me. Laying an ambush with a small party knowing a huge number of warbands will be passing by any minute.... awesome. If you cant take a couple of deaths no matter the odds, then ye maybe wow arena e-sport style is for you. Or something else I dunno This is just for me ofc and my own opinions and feelings about it, but usually when I talk to PvPers world pvp is by far what they prefer. PvEers, not so much

(and thats fine too I guess lol no need for flames!)

Gdemami

---

Originally posted by Kyleran

Don't have enough time to find a group?  Design content so most of it can be solo'd in small spurts, effecively killing grouping.  For good measure toss in a cross realm dungeon finder to really save time and drive another nail in the coffin of player socialization.
Not enough time to travel to destinations?  Put lots of instant travel options into games so players don't get a chance to socialize while moving from A to B.
Not enough time to level up a character? Though a complaint not often seen these days, it was used heavily in the past by players who would pay other folks to level up their characters for them.  Same with gold buying as well, not enough time to earn the gold myself, so I went out and paid someone else who was willing to do it for me.
Rich, detailed crafting systems?  Who in the world has time for that?  Make the best gear come from drops, preferably from those instant queued dungeons we designed for players without enough time to play the game.
Engaging open world PVP content?  Well that has to go, who has time to run around a vast wilderness looking for fair and balanced fights, much better if we let them queue up for cross realm pvp instanced matches to make sure their vaulable time isn't wasted.

---

Yup, sounds good. I love how MMO market matured and evolved.

---

Originally posted by Kyleran

Yeah, I know, I'm a dinosaur and need to learn that the MMORPG world has moved on

---

Indeed, you missed your train here.

Axehilt

Originally posted by ormstunga

Originally posted by Axehilt

Um...when did "fair" or "balanced" ever happen?  World PVP by definition is 99.9% one-sided (and thus uninteresting) slaughters.  That's sort of the point.  That's what those players want.  The time involved searching out opponents was just one more negative heaped on a stack of reasons why world PVP sucks.

 I dont get this at all. World pvp is thrilling. That is, if you know what you're doing and actually like pvp. If its the kind of game where high levels run around camping lowbies then ofc its uninteresting and not fun.

But the feeling of roaming around in a party not knowing the numbers or strength of your next encounter, thats a huge thrill for me. Laying an ambush with a small party knowing a huge number of warbands will be passing by any minute.... awesome. If you cant take a couple of deaths no matter the odds, then ye maybe wow arena e-sport style is for you. Or something else I dunno This is just for me ofc and my own opinions and feelings about it, but usually when I talk to PvPers world pvp is by far what they prefer. PvEers, not so much

(and thats fine too I guess lol no need for flames!)

In other games, the combat itself is exciting.  In world PVP, only the apprehension of not knowing is exciting -- and once you realize everything is one-sided based on a very simplistic mechanic (bring more friends) you sort of get over your world PVP phase.

Mogcat

Originally posted by jpnz

I wouldn't call it 'evil'. Is it evil to use the washing machine cause I don't want to hand-wash my laundry?

To many MMO players, asking them to wait for immersion and do the 'not fun' stuff is a puzzling question.

To each their own.

 THIS! READ THIS POST! Honestly I dont understand the complex you oldies have. Its so puzzling.

Edit: typo

ormstunga

Originally posted by Axehilt

In other games, the combat itself is exciting.  In world PVP, only the apprehension of not knowing is exciting -- and once you realize everything is one-sided based on a very simplistic mechanic (bring more friends) you sort of get over your world PVP phase.

 Bring more friends is usually the warcry of ppl who arent that familiar with pvp in my experience. But anyways I've played both sides (instanced and world pvp) and they have different appeals ofc. I never duel maybe that's why I dont get it?

I prefer doing small groups vs other small groups of well coordinated ppl or just against a huge zerg. I think both sides of the coin are exciting, its just that often ppl with little experience in world pvp have their mind set on numbers and cant get past that numbers isnt always the reason they lose. What I'm trying to say is its a mental barrier set up to protect scrubs "hey I dont suck, the other side just had more ppl, this game is all about numbers and must suck". No offense ofc

Gdemami

---

Originally posted by Mogcat
Honestly I dont understand the complex you oldies have. Its so puzzling.

---

What so difficult to understand about it?

Nostalgia for the most part. The problem is when it gets coupled with inability to accept changes, stupidity, self-centeredness and lack of objectivity.

Xasapis

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Mogcat

Honestly I dont understand the complex you oldies have. Its so puzzling.

---

 

What so difficult to understand about it?

Nostalgia for the most part. The problem is when it gets coupled with inability to accept changes, stupidity, self-centeredness and lack of objectivity.

Every change that is happening brings both positives and negatives. It is a balance, on a personal scale. If the negatives outweigth the positives, it's time to move on.

Just because things change, does not mean that they improve. If you're community centered and trying to create a social hub within the game, these fast in, fast out tools are a hindrance. They improve one aspect of the gameplay for some people, while creating issues in other aspects for others.

 

Lack of objectivity is when you can't see beyond your myopic view of the world.

josh81

Don't have enough time to find a group?  Design content so most of it can be solo'd in small spurts, effecively killing grouping.  For good measure toss in a cross realm dungeon finder to really save time and drive another nail in the coffin of player socialization.

 

And if you are talking with people in the zone/area and talking to guildies  how is that a hit against socialization? And having to have a group of people hold your hand while you do the most remedial tasks is not fun. As for a cross realm dungeon finder I have stated this in 2 other posts tonight. How is that killing socialization? Because neither the people you are with nor YOU decide to talk and socialize the whole time? You'd be suprised at how many conversations can be had if YOU took the iniative to talk and interact as well. No one is forcing anyone to use the cross realm dungeon finding groups you can still sit in town or go about your tasks while looking for others that want to group. 

Mogcat

Using the WoW dungeon finder as an example, because its getting a lot of talk with Rift and all Ive had nothing but good experiences.

Sometimes its very formal like a SC2 match. Hello, then silence and then Ty, GG or thanks for run at the end.

Other times they have a nice little banter about raids and such sometimes its gets really chatty about lots of topics.

Or we might be talking about bosses and just having a talk about the dungeon.

You oldies blow this new stuff way out of proportion. I bet a lot of you dont play WoW at or all much because of the distain for it but its nothing to be afraid of. They are good changes.

Plus blizzard relised they needed to bring back the guild and make guild achivements, rewards and rep. They know when they do wrong and try to fix it. Its not all doom and gloom. Calm your farm-------ville.

Axehilt

Originally posted by Shawk

 Every point you made was completely wrong, and I'm trying to be fair when I say that, unfortunately you are one of these people who clearly started playing this genre later after its originalty died, and/or you just have a differen't idea of what a MMO is suppose to be... Clearly the wrong idea, but different none the less.

What you want out of a MMO could come from a generic RPG, you don't need it to be a MMORPG, a 100% instanced server could fill your desires, but alas, that is NOT a MMO.

So you feel world PVP isn't one-sided the vast majority of time?  What world PVP game are you playing?

I started MMORPGs somewhat early (AC) and tried 8-10 MMORPGs, but never subscribed past the free month to any of them (apart from giving many a second chance, because I really did want to enjoy the genre.)

But that's not even relevant -- a player is a player.  Someone who started playing MMORPGs today would have just as valid a desire for games not to hide the fun behind needless timesinks.  Most players feel this way.

The only timesinks games should have are those which are absolutely necessary for the design goals.  Everything else should be cut away.

yewsef

Originally posted by spookydom

I am working 12 hour days at the moment and I really don't have enough time. But at the same....ummmm....time, I would rather spend thoes moments I do have in a rich and open diynamic world than something that has instant gratification. I just put into it the time I have. Yeah, It takes me 17 years to level to cap and I am never available on raid nights. But I still have fun and would never wish for a game I love to change just becouse I don't have time to see all of it or play in 40 hour sessions like I once did.

 

I agree with this man here.

If I have 5 minutes free time a day, I'd rather spend it on a game with depth than a shallow, insta-gratification, quest driven "game".

Slampig

Originally posted by Kyleran

We've all seen it, the phrase "I don't have enough time" used to justify why players demand game mechanics so prevalent in most modern MMORPG's.

Don't have enough time to find a group?  Design content so most of it can be solo'd in small spurts, effecively killing grouping.  For good measure toss in a cross realm dungeon finder to really save time and drive another nail in the coffin of player socialization.

Not enough time to travel to destinations?  Put lots of instant travel options into games so players don't get a chance to socialize while moving from A to B.

Not enough time to level up a character? Though a complaint not often seen these days, it was used heavily in the past by players who would pay other folks to level up their characters for them.  Same with gold buying as well, not enough time to earn the gold myself, so I went out and paid someone else who was willing to do it for me.

Rich, detailed crafting systems?  Who in the world has time for that?  Make the best gear come from drops, preferably from those instant queued dungeons we designed for players without enough time to play the game.

Engaging open world PVP content?  Well that has to go, who has time to run around a vast wilderness looking for fair and balanced fights, much better if we let them queue up for cross realm pvp instanced matches to make sure their vaulable time isn't wasted.

Sigh, I could go on but why bother? It's pretty obvious that developers have sacrificed much of what actually gave MMORPG's their heart and soul in order to appeal to the "causal player" with everything from quest givers and large icons above their heads to arrows that direct the player right to their destination. 

Socialization mechanics such as forced downtime, strong group encouragement and the like have all given way to make MMORPG's quick and easy games for people to "enjoy" but at the same time they've lost so much of the magic I used to enjoy.

BTW, I've a 50+ year old player who's held a full time job, raised a family all during the time I've played MMORPG's. I never was one of those folks who could claim that I had more time in my younger days and now don't have the time to play them anymore. Few people have had less time than I to enjoy MMORPG's really, so that arguement carries no real weight for me.

Yeah, I know, I'm a dinosaur and need to learn that the MMORPG world has moved on without me but still I hope in time players in the 2nd generation of MMORPG's will one day reconsider and take the time to really enjoy these virtual worlds and not just play them like a quick-hit "game"

 

So late 30's, early 40's when you started playing MMORPGs as we know them today... Lot of time to already HAVE your family, work, leisure time in a row... I just turned 39 last Thursday and have been playing these games for the same amount of time, the MMORPGs, as we know them today, two ALMOST marriages, all that crap. I find time to play and I miss the long travel times, I miss the old days. Kind of an assy thing to say though, times have changed and people do not have 8 hours per day to play anymore...I miss college... Blaming the new generation for the state of games today is lame, kinda like all the crying that still goes on now and then about SWG... Get over  it, just like cash shops, it is here, whether we like it or not...

thamighty213

I think your way off on your OP.

 

It wasnt us people who grew up on UO EQ SWG (insert other MMO here) who forced these changes I have the same time now as I had in 2003 and pre-cu SWG,  we where happy with the world our jobs, family life other hobbies allowed us time in,  we are of a generation like our fathers before us who have to work for what we earn wether that be real life or gaming and we loved it.

 

In those early days there where few of this new generation playing, they couldnt understand the concept of paying monthly to play a game and they didnt have cards to pay with readily available.

 

Then slowly over time gamecards and other accesible to the u16 market payment methods became available and lazy parents began to cotton onto the fact their kids would sit in their room 24/7 playing these things £10 a month for a virtual babysitter was appealing I have lost count of the amount of horror stories I have heard of kids as yound as 8 being left at home whilst mum goes to Bingo and the childs left with their virtual babysitter,  they then have the cheek to blame the game when their kid tells them to F Off or whatever choice language they learned in game.

 

Then along came WOW and the sheeple effect we see with apple products these arent MMO players hell a lot arent even gamers they just want somewhere they can interact with their friends and never leave the house because this generation has this opinion that the outside world is simply unsafe again brought on by lazy parenting and not teaching kids how to stay safe when out and about why bother when you can just lock them in their room with their MMOBSS Massivley Multiplayer Online Baby Sitting Service.

 

A combination of a lazy generation of parents and kids who expect everything handed on a plate to them lead to the crap we get now,  not the players who pioneered into the land of MMO's and may not have as much time in 2011 as they did in 1999.

ormstunga

Originally posted by Axehilt

So you feel world PVP isn't one-sided the vast majority of time?  What world PVP game are you playing?

I started MMORPGs somewhat early (AC) and tried 8-10 MMORPGs, but never subscribed past the free month to any of them (apart from giving many a second chance, because I really did want to enjoy the genre.)

 What's the point discussing this if you dont play MMOs With all the timesink cuts ppl are asking for, they could just aswell be playing a lobby game with only instancing into dungeons and battlegrounds. And that is fine, let them have their fun I'm totally for it. But I play MMO's, is it ok if I have my fun too?

Loktofeit

Originally posted by Kyleran

Don't have enough time to find a group?  Design content so most of it can be solo'd in small spurts, effecively killing grouping.  For good measure toss in a cross realm dungeon finder to really save time and drive another nail in the coffin of player socialization.

Not enough time to travel to destinations?  Put lots of instant travel options into games so players don't get a chance to socialize while moving from A to B.

Despite the claims of many on these boards, there is zero correlation between grouping or fast travel and the socialization aspect of MMOs, especially in today's MMOs when you have guild/clan channels, Global/World chat and TS/Vent servers. A person who is inclined to interact with others will do so, and will do so through the channels they are most comfortable with. To blame dungeon finders and flight paths is absurd, especially when going to the extent of actually calling a game mechanic 'evil'.