I too would play a EQ clone, but with either a better lvling curb, or more content than velious era for lower lvls. I didn't mind taking a year to hit 50, but I did mind doing the same thing for two weeks. I didn't even mind class imbalance as I played PvE. But I think I may be in the minority on that part. People and thier epeen envy <.<
I admit straight up, I've been spoiled by Vindictus animation and combat. I just don't feel any urge to give 'traditional" MMO combat a shot anymore. The only thing that could pull me from Vindictus atm would be massive exploration, difficulty, and deep crafting. Hell this latest patch with Vindictus hit me with 'difficult' like a ton of bricks with hero mode dungeons. Wipes, practicing perfection, speed, movement all just attract me to it. Gotta love that half life 2 engine.
If you can't tell, I really don't have any bias against asian MMOs. In fact the only simi innovation I see in A+ MMOs is from korea. Tera, and Blade & Soul are both looking interesting to me for non conventional combat. Though I've learned to be rather guarded on hype, so I'm waiting and watching. I gotta see how themepark the games are tho. Nothing annoys me more than being corraled through a tunnel of quests. And yet, I may just play them to cap and quit like it were a 'standard' RPG.
But those are really just distractions till World of Darkness comes out
So if WoD has standard type of combat you won't play it? I know I would, I find the IP impossible to pass by.
The "targeting 1500 players per server" quote was from December 2010 and came from the head designer himself.
Like Trion's said, betas are stress tests, you don't let out MMORPGs betas with the actual maximum number of players the server can hold, you start with limited cap, and then raise it in each everytime in each later betas, to see if the highest number of players the server can hold while still remained stable. There were 7 betas before HS and every time the beta is on the player cap was raise by a fair amount(500 IIRC) and even in beta 7 the servers still remained extremely stable.
I'm not playing it, and it had very little to do with elves or dwarves....
Switching over to a sci-fi MMO, where my fireball spell turns into a flamethrower, or my typical dot spell turns into an acid rifle, really isn't going to change the overall feel i get from a game developed this way.
There are other MMOs coming out, and one I am playing, or trying to, right now, so i also don't feel like i need to wait 10 years.... but thanks for the advice i suppose.
The "targeting 1500 players per server" quote was from December 2010 and came from the head designer himself.
I mean, it doesn't even contradict with anything.
300K at pre launch as a maxed out capacity is realistic.
Why the fuzz ?
Back to the topic please. I made that statement in a context of previous fantasy launches.
They clearly stated that the 1500 players was false. The Trion people themselves, so looks to me you're purposely quoting wrong info to make Rift - or any other MMO besides WoW - look bad, instead of an honest 'search for the truth'.
According to your own fuzzy calculations of what a server can hold, it's also 700k maxed out capacity pre launch for Rift, unless you want to say that you've been lying all the time even when you repeatedly stated your own thought up capacity figures for a server.
I think you have shown your real reasons for talking Rift down, and that has nothing to do with the truth or being realistic.
But it's time back to the OP topic, yes, when people start to abandon or ignore even their own claims in former posts.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
But those are really just distractions till World of Darkness comes out
So if WoD has standard type of combat you won't play it? I know I would, I find the IP impossible to pass by.
I played the WoD P&P with a combo of vampire, mage, werewolve, and changeling players. And I had a blast. But a "standard" MMO combat is not the combat of WoD. It's more technical, tactical, and exacting. You can't aim a sword slash at a particular body part in an MMO like you can in P&P. D&DO was perhaps the closest mechanics wise to it's IP, but didn't really capure the intracacy.
I already have to live with WoD starting out as only vampires. I don't think I could handle it using yet the same combat as the crap standard. It'd be like going from Chess, to Go fish. I would hope it to be better than Vampire the Masqurade: Bloodlines game or close to it combat wise vs standard.
The difference between staking someone and staking someone in the heart was quite meaningful in WoD. I wouldn't want to see cop out skills that "target" particular body parts, when you only have a single hitbox. The missing the heart and hitting in the shoulder can be expressed in the P&P, but it can't in traditional MMO combat.
If your unhappy with this its extremly unlikly you will enjoy anything to be released in the next half a decade or so .
So... in a nutshell, if you don't like Rift, there's likely nothing else out there you could enjoy? It's Rift or Nothing?
Seems like a bit of a false dichotomy to me - and a rather cynical one at that.
Rift and LoTRO are very much woven from the same basic cloth... Before anyone goes "lolol Rift has its rifts! LoTRO doesn't!! lololol!", yes, each game has elements unique to it, obviously. However, they're still built on the same basic foundation that WoW has made so popular. Same goes for Aion, Warhammer, etc.
Anyway... my point is, someone might not like Rift... but they might find that Warhammer is more to their taste. Or Aion. Or LoTRO, etc. You get the idea.
All these games are cut from the same basic cloth, but they are still different enough that people could find one suits their "needs", while the others don't.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Also I guess I will join the fray on the original topic and not the fake numbers per server topic.
The entire statement that if you don't like rift its tie to give up on traditional fantasy mmo's. That entire statement is total bull hockey.
I play eq2, it was around a lot longer than rift or most of the other mmo today, and I love it so much for the bs that if we don't like rift we have to give up.
I say give up what, I already have my fantasy mmo and it was hear first and for me it fits the bill. To me thats arogant to think that rift is the only fantasy mmo.
The "targeting 1500 players per server" quote was from December 2010 and came from the head designer himself.
I mean, it doesn't even contradict with anything.
300K at pre launch as a maxed out capacity is realistic.
Why the fuzz ?
Back to the topic please. I made that statement in a context of previous fantasy launches.
They clearly stated that the 1500 players was false. The Trion people themselves, so looks to me you're purposely quoting wrong info to make Rift - or any other MMO besides WoW - look bad, instead of an honest 'search for the truth'.
According to your own fuzzy calculations of what a server can hold, it's also 700k maxed out capacity pre launch for Rift, unless you want to say that you've been lying all the time even when you repeatedly stated your own thought up capacity figures for a server.
I think you have shown your real reasons for talking Rift down, and that has nothing to do with the truth or being realistic.
But it's time back to the OP topic, yes, when people start to abandon or ignore even their own claims in former posts.
... I SHOVED the original IRC chat under your very noses. And it shows the designer talks about HIS game he has been working on for years and on the many questions asked, he simply replies that they target 1500 players per server for Rift.
That was even AFTER the first beta launched and a mere ... 10 weeks before launch.
Weeks later when forum dwellers keep confronting the forum moderators with that number, a simple forum moderator comes up and says "that 1500 is not correct" and that was " a long time ago ...". Yep a full 8 weeks. ))
So the head designer who was asked a very simply question about that game slipped. That can happen. In the meantime they shut up about the whole business and won't comment.
HOW much more proof can you want when the head designer himself called out those 1500 players per server as a target.
300K tops with this number of servers . ... If they are indeed FULL 100 % of course.
... I SHOVED the original IRC chat under your very noses. And it shows the designer talks about HIS game he has been working on for years and on the many questions asked, he simply replies that they target 1500 players per server for Rift.
HOW much more proof can you want when the head designer himself called out those 1500 players per server as a target.
300K tops with this number of servers . ... If they are indeed FULL 100 % of course.
What did you expect? Millions?
A number of people shoved the newer statement of Trion people under your very nose, quoting
I keep seeing references to a dev saying that each sever would only hold 1500 people. The actual quote was from a very old IRC chat where one of our devs was talking about numbers for that current beta as the servers were opened. We do not release specific numbers about our servers. But we saw higher numbers with each beta and the same thing applies to release. The 1500 rumor is false. (source)
Now who's ignoring what, eh? I think it's you, if you chose to hold on to one thing they stated while ignoring another newer statement they made.
Besides, you mentioned a 10k per server, right? (most MMO's these days have far higher capacities, but ok)
Your own statement. That means a hell of a lot more than 300k, even with your own calculations, looking at the number of servers that is around.
I myself made a speculation about there being 500k players at launch, but if facts contradict my speculation, then I'm following the facts. Simple as that. Doing anything else means that person has another agenda than searching for the truth or trying to be objective.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
... I SHOVED the original IRC chat under your very noses. And it shows the designer talks about HIS game he has been working on for years and on the many questions asked, he simply replies that they target 1500 players per server for Rift.
HOW much more proof can you want when the head designer himself called out those 1500 players per server as a target.
300K tops with this number of servers . ... If they are indeed FULL 100 % of course.
What did you expect? Millions?
A number of people shoved the newer statement of Trion people under your very nose, quoting
I keep seeing references to a dev saying that each sever would only hold 1500 people. The actual quote was from a very old IRC chat where one of our devs was talking about numbers for that current beta as the servers were opened. We do not release specific numbers about our servers. But we saw higher numbers with each beta and the same thing applies to release. The 1500 rumor is false. (source)
When the target 1500 players per server statement... comes from the head designer himself in Dec 2010 !!!!! even after the first Betas....
That's not a rumour. Read the complete technical info in my link above and you'll understand that's NO rumour.
Cindy ... a... forum moderator a few weeks later tries to put out the fire with her bare hands."Very old... LOL".
Everyone can judge for himself. Why are you defending Rift? Are you the forum moderator for Rift?
I played RIFT beta. I played many fantasy MMOs before RIFT.
RIFT was alright. I won't say it was bad or good. The things about RIFT for me was that there was nothing to keep me there. I couldn't establish a foothold on the whole rifts idea, I couldn't come up with an excuse as to why RIFT was a "fantasy MMO genre" top dog. Also, prior to the beta - I had never followed RIFT development. I heard about it in Nov. 2010, and that was the earliest I had seen its name out there. On the other hand, I've been following TOR since early 09. There lies my home...
All in all, if you have a group of friends or clan that plays RIFT - my guess is you'll enjoy it. Solo, it's hard to say how you'll feel about it.
When the target 1500 players per server statement... comes from the head designer himself in Dec 2010 !!!!! even after the first Betas....
That's not a rumour. Read the complete technical info in my link above and you'll understand that's NO rumour.
Cindy ... a... forum moderator a few weeks later tries to put out the fire with her bare hands.
Everyone can judge for himself.
Yep, and I judge that if one person of Trion makes a statement, and another person of Trion makes another statement more recently that puts the older statement into the light as it was meant, then both statements are valid.
Believing one statement and disbelieving another from the same company just because one fits someone's personal belief better is not acting objectively, but following an agenda. imo.
Besides that, the vast majority of MMORPG's have shown servers containing 10k-30k players, so it's even stranger to suddenly consider Rift, an MMO of 2011, to suddenly have less than half of that minimum per server. Unless someone is wilfully trying to downplay Rift's player numbers to for example support his/her case that also new MMO's like Rift are 'fail'
Anyway, this is going way beyond OP topic. If you need to believe the 1500 max population contradictory to all other facts, then that's your choice.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
When the target 1500 players per server statement... comes from the head designer himself in Dec 2010 !!!!! even after the first Betas....
That's not a rumour. Read the complete technical info in my link above and you'll understand that's NO rumour.
Cindy ... a... forum moderator a few weeks later tries to put out the fire with her bare hands.
Everyone can judge for himself.
Yep, and I judge that if one person of Trion makes a statement, and another person of Trion makes another statement more recently that puts the older statement into the light as it was meant, then both statements are valid.
Believing one statement and disbelieving another just because one fits someone's personal belief better is not acting objectively, but following an agenda. imo.
Besides that, the vast majority of MMORPG's have shown servers containing 10k-30k players, so it's even stranger to suddenly consider Rift, an MMO of 2011, to suddenly have less than half of that minimum per server. Unless someone is wilfully trying to downplay Rift's player numbers to support his case that also new MMO's like Rift are 'fail'
One person is the lead designer who and I quote "worked years on this game" and talks TECHNICALLY about HIS game a few weeks before launch and he mentions a TARGET of 1500 players concurrently on a server...in an IRC chat all over the internet.
The other person is Cindy ... a moderator on the Rift forums who is trying to deny the 1500 statement (which was spread all over the internet btw) by NOT naming any other numbers and trying to avoid the validity by stating this was very much an OLD IRC chat (actually Dec 2010) and within the same Beta launch.
She - Cindy - already lied/twisted about 3 things: it was NOT an old chat, it was not "a" designer it was "THE" designer and she refuses to give any other number....
Like I stated WAR had exacly the same engine and was confronted with the same problem: 1500 players per server.
They had ... worldwide 113 servers on launch to support 800K players - non concurrently.
Same engine for both games. Same results as shown by the initial tech references of the lead designer.
I think any reasonable person can make up his/her own conclusions about this.
Lots of comments are made about Guild Wars 2 but in truth its still too much of an unkown quantity to know if it will be anything really different .
No...its not really an unknown quantity...Well, maybe it is for those who didn't get to one of the conventions to play the demo, or for those who have at least a years experience on GW1. If you are trying to say that the newest iteration of themepark MMOs (Rift) is going to (unfortunately) be the best it gets for the next few years and that GW2 is in the same boat, you need to at least sound a little less like you hopes and dreams didn't just get crushed (assuming you wanted rift to be a fun game for you).
my reactions:
GW2 at PAX: waited in line for 3 hours and loved it 100%. went back for more (3 more times). Dynamic events are much more interesting than they might sound on paper, but if the individual event doesn't matter to you (and variety matters not to you) rifts in Rift will achieve much the same thing (but I think they are repetative, as just about every single on is the same. I don't care what others say.) Basically DEs are better in my opinion.
Rift at PAX: just hoped on one of the stations and my reaction was WoW does it better (and I don't like WoW).
Rift OBT: Gave it the benefit of the doubt and tried the beta, which basically nullified my position on WoW doing it better, but now they are about equal for me. It feels WAY too much like WAR.
Tera at PAX: played it, loved how combat works, everything else is the same kind of thing as other games...but combat...did I mention its fun?
Vindictus: fun initially, but I stopped caring about the story when I realized that it was 1) long winded, 2) unimportant, and 3) no voices for cut-scenes. Combat is fun at first but really repetative. Questing is really repetative.
SWTOR: haven't tried, probably won't play.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
The other person is Cindy ... a moderator on the Rift forums who is trying to deny the 1500 statement (which was spread all over the internet btw) by NOT naming any other numbers and trying to avoid the validity by stating this was very much an OLD IRC chat (actually Dec 2010) and within the same Beta launch.
I think any reasonable person can make up his/her own conclusions about this.
Community managers and moderators speak for their company all the time, they're used as voices to distribute actual info and correct wrong info and rumors roaming around. She already mentioned that they had more than 1500 concurrent players on servers in the beta. If the cap really was 1500, then her statement that they already had more players in beta and that that 1500 population cap was false, would be a lie, so you're basically saying that she's lying, and this only because you want to stubbornly hold on to that quote of 1500 (hey, it isn't WoW, eh, so it has no right to have a successful launch ) .
Besides that, your 300k players statement is even condemned by your own other statements, which you conveniently ignored.
But, you're right: any reasonable person can make up his/her own conclusion, so I leave it at that. I've stated my arguments and facts, you've given your arguments and what facts you were willing to acknowledge. I've nothing more to add to it, the rest is just forum pvp.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
About GW2 unless they come with a open beta or closed beta , its all wishfull thinking .
Thats about it , its just a demo you played and on this forum alone , you have enough people quitting once they past certain levels , you think GW2 will offer a different story ?
Honestly fantasy overburned and I know for one thing , GW2 isn´t even offering anything that I am really interested in .
Once SWTOR comes out , it will put old fashion text based questing into shambles .
A same way Cata ruined the chain quest trains . So what will GW2 offer aside from graphic options .
That hasn´t been done before ? and that game is slated for 2012 ..
Well, as far as the original post, I think that's a hard one to accept. sort of like a gentlemen who posted on these forums that since WoW was so successful and good why would there ever need to be another fantasy game?
I like Rift and I'm definitely playing it. But if a game came along that was closer to the elder scrolls or something a bit less over the top, then I'd be there in a minute.
Rift is fun but in no way does it represent what I wanted from a fantasy game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I played all the RIFT betas and got to level 26 . The only reason I did'nt pre-order is that my machine got relatively low fps on even the low settings . Other than that what I saw although generic to some degree was polished and fun to play . Many people seam to be waiting for the next generation mmo but I think thats unlikly to happen anytime soon . What we are more likly to see is the evolution of old ideas in the same way we do in single player games . Half-life owes a lot to doom and the likes of Tomb Raider owes a lot ot the old platform games .
I remember a time when every first person shooter was a Doom or Quake clone but that was'nt seen as a bad thing so why should an Everquest clone or WoW clone be seen in a different way . If your waiting for something really inovative in the traditional fantasy mmo genre you could be waiting a long time . Lots of comments are made about Guild Wars 2 but in truth its still too much of an unkown quantity to know if it will be anything really different .
The thing is I think RIFT is as likly as good as it will get for many years to come . If you don't like it and are bored with the other mmos on the market then perhaps its time to look a little further than dwarves , elves ,orcs and goblins and either try a different genre MMO(maybe scifi) or give up MMOs for the next 5-10 years .
If your unhappy with this its extremly unlikly you will enjoy anything to be released in the next half a decade or so .
If RIFT is as good as it gets then the genre is truly dead.
Modern MMOs lack 60% of the features that came standard in games from the 90s. That's just unacceptable. I'm not waiting for the "next generation", I'm waiting for this generation to catch up with the tech and innovation and great features we enjoyed in the MMO Golden Age. If someone took a look at the feature lists of a bunch of MMOs and were asking to list them chronologically, they'd get it wrong, because they'd assume the old MMOs were the next gen ones.
I am glad I bought Rift, at first I worried about how it would play due to negative nancies here at MMORPG.com but my own experience has made the 50$ investment worth it.
I am glad I bought Rift, at first I worried about how it would play due to negative nancies here at MMORPG.com but my own experience has made the 50$ investment worth it.
Problem is people want something that will revolutinary like WoW was when it came out 7 years ago and at the same time offer the same amount of content as WoW 4.0. Unless a company has $200 mill+ budget it ain't going to happen.
I am glad I bought Rift, at first I worried about how it would play due to negative nancies here at MMORPG.com but my own experience has made the 50$ investment worth it.
Problem is people want something that will revolutinary like WoW was when it came out 7 years ago and at the same time offer the same amount of content as WoW 4.0. Unless a company has $200 mill+ budget it ain't going to happen.
You make a good point, many a faithful WoW players expect to be given exactly what they ask for, since Blizzard is afraid to lose players to another game. So they continue to nerf the game making everything solo' up to top level. Taking the whole sense of accomplishment out. That is why a number of other promising MMO's have failed because of mass 1mth off from WoW exodus's where they go running back because of the ease of use that WoW provides.
agree on all points, think i outgrew theme park mmos, not saying iwont try others, anyway and 1500 concurrent user limit will kill the game , they braged so much about cloud and all next gen server technology when older games sport 5x that user base, while my 10k concurrent users per wow server info might be bit wrong
and guys before you get into drama and flame about that, blizzard upgraded their servers at least 1-2 times, and you can google about blizzard server hardware being fastest in the world if you really care, but even before that it was used to be 4k, and i heard doac used to sport 2-2.5k in 2001 or when it released
and as i always told, gamebryo is worst engine out there.. ( and i aint saying that cuz of warhammer, which was utter pile of garbage, and rift did quite wonder on that pile of shit engine )
Comments
The "targeting 1500 players per server" quote was from December 2010 and came from the head designer himself.
I mean, it doesn't even contradict with anything.
300K at pre launch as a maxed out capacity is realistic.
Why the fuzz ?
Back to the topic please. I made that statement in a context of previous fantasy launches.
So if WoD has standard type of combat you won't play it? I know I would, I find the IP impossible to pass by.
I'm not playing it, and it had very little to do with elves or dwarves....
Switching over to a sci-fi MMO, where my fireball spell turns into a flamethrower, or my typical dot spell turns into an acid rifle, really isn't going to change the overall feel i get from a game developed this way.
There are other MMOs coming out, and one I am playing, or trying to, right now, so i also don't feel like i need to wait 10 years.... but thanks for the advice i suppose.
They clearly stated that the 1500 players was false. The Trion people themselves, so looks to me you're purposely quoting wrong info to make Rift - or any other MMO besides WoW - look bad, instead of an honest 'search for the truth'.
According to your own fuzzy calculations of what a server can hold, it's also 700k maxed out capacity pre launch for Rift, unless you want to say that you've been lying all the time even when you repeatedly stated your own thought up capacity figures for a server.
I think you have shown your real reasons for talking Rift down, and that has nothing to do with the truth or being realistic.
But it's time back to the OP topic, yes, when people start to abandon or ignore even their own claims in former posts.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I played the WoD P&P with a combo of vampire, mage, werewolve, and changeling players. And I had a blast. But a "standard" MMO combat is not the combat of WoD. It's more technical, tactical, and exacting. You can't aim a sword slash at a particular body part in an MMO like you can in P&P. D&DO was perhaps the closest mechanics wise to it's IP, but didn't really capure the intracacy.
I already have to live with WoD starting out as only vampires. I don't think I could handle it using yet the same combat as the crap standard. It'd be like going from Chess, to Go fish. I would hope it to be better than Vampire the Masqurade: Bloodlines game or close to it combat wise vs standard.
The difference between staking someone and staking someone in the heart was quite meaningful in WoD. I wouldn't want to see cop out skills that "target" particular body parts, when you only have a single hitbox. The missing the heart and hitting in the shoulder can be expressed in the P&P, but it can't in traditional MMO combat.
So... in a nutshell, if you don't like Rift, there's likely nothing else out there you could enjoy? It's Rift or Nothing?
Seems like a bit of a false dichotomy to me - and a rather cynical one at that.
Rift and LoTRO are very much woven from the same basic cloth... Before anyone goes "lolol Rift has its rifts! LoTRO doesn't!! lololol!", yes, each game has elements unique to it, obviously. However, they're still built on the same basic foundation that WoW has made so popular. Same goes for Aion, Warhammer, etc.
Anyway... my point is, someone might not like Rift... but they might find that Warhammer is more to their taste. Or Aion. Or LoTRO, etc. You get the idea.
All these games are cut from the same basic cloth, but they are still different enough that people could find one suits their "needs", while the others don't.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Also I guess I will join the fray on the original topic and not the fake numbers per server topic.
The entire statement that if you don't like rift its tie to give up on traditional fantasy mmo's. That entire statement is total bull hockey.
I play eq2, it was around a lot longer than rift or most of the other mmo today, and I love it so much for the bs that if we don't like rift we have to give up.
I say give up what, I already have my fantasy mmo and it was hear first and for me it fits the bill. To me thats arogant to think that rift is the only fantasy mmo.
... I SHOVED the original IRC chat under your very noses. And it shows the designer talks about HIS game he has been working on for years and on the many questions asked, he simply replies that they target 1500 players per server for Rift.
http://www.riftnexus.com/topic/350-actual-server-last-qa-from-rift-irc-before-2011/
That was even AFTER the first beta launched and a mere ... 10 weeks before launch.
Weeks later when forum dwellers keep confronting the forum moderators with that number, a simple forum moderator comes up and says "that 1500 is not correct" and that was " a long time ago ...". Yep a full 8 weeks.
))
So the head designer who was asked a very simply question about that game slipped. That can happen. In the meantime they shut up about the whole business and won't comment.
HOW much more proof can you want when the head designer himself called out those 1500 players per server as a target.
300K tops with this number of servers . ... If they are indeed FULL 100 % of course.
What did you expect? Millions?
A number of people shoved the newer statement of Trion people under your very nose, quoting
I keep seeing references to a dev saying that each sever would only hold 1500 people. The actual quote was from a very old IRC chat where one of our devs was talking about numbers for that current beta as the servers were opened. We do not release specific numbers about our servers. But we saw higher numbers with each beta and the same thing applies to release. The 1500 rumor is false. (source)
Now who's ignoring what, eh? I think it's you, if you chose to hold on to one thing they stated while ignoring another newer statement they made.
Besides, you mentioned a 10k per server, right? (most MMO's these days have far higher capacities, but ok)
Your own statement. That means a hell of a lot more than 300k, even with your own calculations, looking at the number of servers that is around.
I myself made a speculation about there being 500k players at launch, but if facts contradict my speculation, then I'm following the facts. Simple as that. Doing anything else means that person has another agenda than searching for the truth or trying to be objective.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
When the target 1500 players per server statement... comes from the head designer himself in Dec 2010 !!!!! even after the first Betas....
That's not a rumour. Read the complete technical info in my link above and you'll understand that's NO rumour.
Cindy ... a... forum moderator a few weeks later tries to put out the fire with her bare hands."Very old... LOL".
Everyone can judge for himself. Why are you defending Rift? Are you the forum moderator for Rift?
I played RIFT beta. I played many fantasy MMOs before RIFT.
RIFT was alright. I won't say it was bad or good. The things about RIFT for me was that there was nothing to keep me there. I couldn't establish a foothold on the whole rifts idea, I couldn't come up with an excuse as to why RIFT was a "fantasy MMO genre" top dog.
Also, prior to the beta - I had never followed RIFT development. I heard about it in Nov. 2010, and that was the earliest I had seen its name out there. On the other hand, I've been following TOR since early 09. There lies my home...
All in all, if you have a group of friends or clan that plays RIFT - my guess is you'll enjoy it. Solo, it's hard to say how you'll feel about it.
I will not play RIFT.
Yep, and I judge that if one person of Trion makes a statement, and another person of Trion makes another statement more recently that puts the older statement into the light as it was meant, then both statements are valid.
Believing one statement and disbelieving another from the same company just because one fits someone's personal belief better is not acting objectively, but following an agenda. imo.
Besides that, the vast majority of MMORPG's have shown servers containing 10k-30k players, so it's even stranger to suddenly consider Rift, an MMO of 2011, to suddenly have less than half of that minimum per server. Unless someone is wilfully trying to downplay Rift's player numbers to for example support his/her case that also new MMO's like Rift are 'fail'
Anyway, this is going way beyond OP topic. If you need to believe the 1500 max population contradictory to all other facts, then that's your choice.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
One person is the lead designer who and I quote "worked years on this game" and talks TECHNICALLY about HIS game a few weeks before launch and he mentions a TARGET of 1500 players concurrently on a server...in an IRC chat all over the internet.
The other person is Cindy ... a moderator on the Rift forums who is trying to deny the 1500 statement (which was spread all over the internet btw) by NOT naming any other numbers and trying to avoid the validity by stating this was very much an OLD IRC chat (actually Dec 2010) and within the same Beta launch.
She - Cindy - already lied/twisted about 3 things: it was NOT an old chat, it was not "a" designer it was "THE" designer and she refuses to give any other number....
Like I stated WAR had exacly the same engine and was confronted with the same problem: 1500 players per server.
They had ... worldwide 113 servers on launch to support 800K players - non concurrently.
Same engine for both games. Same results as shown by the initial tech references of the lead designer.
I think any reasonable person can make up his/her own conclusions about this.
No...its not really an unknown quantity...Well, maybe it is for those who didn't get to one of the conventions to play the demo, or for those who have at least a years experience on GW1. If you are trying to say that the newest iteration of themepark MMOs (Rift) is going to (unfortunately) be the best it gets for the next few years and that GW2 is in the same boat, you need to at least sound a little less like you hopes and dreams didn't just get crushed (assuming you wanted rift to be a fun game for you).
my reactions:
GW2 at PAX: waited in line for 3 hours and loved it 100%. went back for more (3 more times). Dynamic events are much more interesting than they might sound on paper, but if the individual event doesn't matter to you (and variety matters not to you) rifts in Rift will achieve much the same thing (but I think they are repetative, as just about every single on is the same. I don't care what others say.) Basically DEs are better in my opinion.
Rift at PAX: just hoped on one of the stations and my reaction was WoW does it better (and I don't like WoW).
Rift OBT: Gave it the benefit of the doubt and tried the beta, which basically nullified my position on WoW doing it better, but now they are about equal for me. It feels WAY too much like WAR.
Tera at PAX: played it, loved how combat works, everything else is the same kind of thing as other games...but combat...did I mention its fun?
Vindictus: fun initially, but I stopped caring about the story when I realized that it was 1) long winded, 2) unimportant, and 3) no voices for cut-scenes. Combat is fun at first but really repetative. Questing is really repetative.
SWTOR: haven't tried, probably won't play.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Community managers and moderators speak for their company all the time, they're used as voices to distribute actual info and correct wrong info and rumors roaming around. She already mentioned that they had more than 1500 concurrent players on servers in the beta. If the cap really was 1500, then her statement that they already had more players in beta and that that 1500 population cap was false, would be a lie, so you're basically saying that she's lying, and this only because you want to stubbornly hold on to that quote of 1500 (hey, it isn't WoW, eh, so it has no right to have a successful launch
) .
Besides that, your 300k players statement is even condemned by your own other statements, which you conveniently ignored.
But, you're right: any reasonable person can make up his/her own conclusion, so I leave it at that. I've stated my arguments and facts, you've given your arguments and what facts you were willing to acknowledge. I've nothing more to add to it, the rest is just forum pvp.
Back to OP topic.
/offtopic
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
About GW2 unless they come with a open beta or closed beta , its all wishfull thinking .
Thats about it , its just a demo you played and on this forum alone , you have enough people quitting once they past certain levels , you think GW2 will offer a different story ?
Honestly fantasy overburned and I know for one thing , GW2 isn´t even offering anything that I am really interested in .
Once SWTOR comes out , it will put old fashion text based questing into shambles .
A same way Cata ruined the chain quest trains . So what will GW2 offer aside from graphic options .
That hasn´t been done before ? and that game is slated for 2012 ..
Well, as far as the original post, I think that's a hard one to accept. sort of like a gentlemen who posted on these forums that since WoW was so successful and good why would there ever need to be another fantasy game?
I like Rift and I'm definitely playing it. But if a game came along that was closer to the elder scrolls or something a bit less over the top, then I'd be there in a minute.
Rift is fun but in no way does it represent what I wanted from a fantasy game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If RIFT is as good as it gets then the genre is truly dead.
Modern MMOs lack 60% of the features that came standard in games from the 90s. That's just unacceptable. I'm not waiting for the "next generation", I'm waiting for this generation to catch up with the tech and innovation and great features we enjoyed in the MMO Golden Age. If someone took a look at the feature lists of a bunch of MMOs and were asking to list them chronologically, they'd get it wrong, because they'd assume the old MMOs were the next gen ones.
No thats a good answer Sovrath , in the end we gamers are always looking for a game closest to our heart .
For me Rift is good and entertaining , till SWTOR comes out .
And am suprised for a fantasy burnout , the game could keep me hooked for a while .
But in the end we all look for our own close to perfection game or mmorpg or b2p or f2p .
Thats about it , most of us are still searching , infact if we found it , we wouldn´t even bother to post anymore .
I am glad I bought Rift, at first I worried about how it would play due to negative nancies here at MMORPG.com but my own experience has made the 50$ investment worth it.
Momo sucks, I have proof.
Problem is people want something that will revolutinary like WoW was when it came out 7 years ago and at the same time offer the same amount of content as WoW 4.0. Unless a company has $200 mill+ budget it ain't going to happen.
You make a good point, many a faithful WoW players expect to be given exactly what they ask for, since Blizzard is afraid to lose players to another game. So they continue to nerf the game making everything solo' up to top level. Taking the whole sense of accomplishment out. That is why a number of other promising MMO's have failed because of mass 1mth off from WoW exodus's where they go running back because of the ease of use that WoW provides.
Momo sucks, I have proof.
and guys before you get into drama and flame about that, blizzard upgraded their servers at least 1-2 times, and you can google about blizzard server hardware being fastest in the world if you really care, but even before that it was used to be 4k,
and i heard doac used to sport 2-2.5k in 2001 or when it released
and as i always told, gamebryo is worst engine out there.. ( and i aint saying that cuz of warhammer, which was utter pile of garbage, and rift did quite wonder on that pile of shit engine )