MMORPGs used to make me happy, before big publishers made the genre die a painful death.
What would I do that's ground breaking in a AAA MMO? I'd probably take Darkfall and give it AAA funding, and add in pieces of Xyson and Ultima Online, for starters. Then I'd work to maybe making a new type of RvR system. Hell I'd do SOMETHING. Rift has only ONE thing that people seem to agree sets it apart from other MMOs in the past. Rifts. But guess what, Rifts are little more than public quests, or the dynamic invasion from Ultima Online (actually, they're quite a bit worse than those) or the invasions from Tabula Rasa.
MMORPGs used to each have their own identity and learning curve. Now you can describe almost all new MMOs as "WoW with invasions" or "WoW with a Lord of the Rings skin" or "WoW with flying". You would never have been able to pull that off in the old days. You couldn't call SWG "EQ with a SW skin" or DAoC "EverQuest with battelgrounds" or Asheron's cal "Ultima Online in 3d" because all of them hardly shared any similarities. If MMO companies were able to come up with vastly different style games then, then they sure as hell can now, so don't blame the industry being "too old".
Hell, I'd even settle for rehashes of the Golden Age MMOs, becasue its been so long since we've seen so many of those great features in MMOs. I'd play a DAoC clone, or an AC clone, or a SWG clone, because unlike WoW clones (which we get about 4 of every year) we've not seen those games in a good 8 years. They'd feel fresh, unlike playing WoW's formula and gameplay and UI and instancing over and over and over again.
We live in a free-market/capitalistic society.
If you think the 'demand' for your perfect MMO is there, you can raise some funds and make it yourself.
Otherwise, market has been saying that 'WoW type gameplay is king' for the past 6/7 years.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
The public stress testing (off and on) of WoW began in early 2004.
2004: WoW
(all the games inbetween that tried to appeal to WoW's market)
2011: WoW
.. . and then the next step of gaming evolution changed everything!
2012: The universe aligns with the sun and the planet causing everyone to ascend to a higher consciousness and start playing FFA PVP games where they can be a hero for people instead of NPCs or go up against some very challenging epic NPCs or they can be a villain against other players band together to fight against NPC hoards with other friendly players that were once enemies but had to become aligned temporarily because they were so difficult. Every gaming session is unpredictable and there is always something new to do and discover no matter how long that you play it for.
.... . and WoW's crowd pour into FFA PVP games . .....
LOL I wish.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
mmorpGs are much better games than they were first conceived.
Features like instances, dungeon finding tools, ability to customize interfaces, battleground, arenas ... make the gaming experience more diverse and more fun.
More DIVERSE? No, we had dungeons and battlegrounds and arenas in 2001, nothing new there.
More FUN? Maybe for people who don't like MMORPGs. For peple that would rather play a game like Diablo than EverQuest.
MMOs today have less features than MMOs of yesterday. That is the opposite of progress.
I do not agree with this, where do you draw the line at "yesterday?"
Yesterday is the MMO Golden Age 1997-2003. When WoW hit we entered the MMO Dark Ages where its just clones and stale ideas. There have been little to no innovations since 2003, despite there being hundreds more games being made. No AAA MMOs come out with new ideas.
Again, even innovations you do not like or agree with are none the less real.
And they are nonetheless few and far between. Public quests, phasing, and.. that's about it. Wow, good job MMO industry, realling kicking in the creative juices.
7 years, dozens of games, and we have LESS features now than we did in 1997.. just really sad. Probably the most innovative and technically advanced game was made by 30 guys in Greece, but 200 developers in Blizzard cannot come up with a new idea to save their life.
I've named a few things that have changed, what would you change that would be so ground breaking? Because at this point you're just pushing opinion as fact. If you hate it so much leave, never look back. Find something that makes you happy. To lurk here and bitch every time someone even thinks about WoW seems petty and sad.
MMORPGs used to make me happy, before big publishers made the genre die a painful death.
What would I do that's ground breaking in a AAA MMO? I'd probably take Darkfall and give it AAA funding, and add in pieces of Xyson and Ultima Online, for starters. Then I'd work to maybe making a new type of RvR system. Hell I'd do SOMETHING. Rift has only ONE thing that people seem to agree sets it apart from other MMOs in the past. Rifts. But guess what, Rifts are little more than public quests, or the dynamic invasion from Ultima Online (actually, they're quite a bit worse than those) or the invasions from Tabula Rasa.
MMORPGs used to each have their own identity and learning curve. Now you can describe almost all new MMOs as "WoW with invasions" or "WoW with a Lord of the Rings skin" or "WoW with flying". You would never have been able to pull that off in the old days. You couldn't call SWG "EQ with a SW skin" or DAoC "EverQuest with battelgrounds" or Asheron's cal "Ultima Online in 3d" because all of them hardly shared any similarities. If MMO companies were able to come up with vastly different style games then, then they sure as hell can now, so don't blame the industry being "too old".
Hell, I'd even settle for rehashes of the Golden Age MMOs, becasue its been so long since we've seen so many of those great features in MMOs. I'd play a DAoC clone, or an AC clone, or a SWG clone, because unlike WoW clones (which we get about 4 of every year) we've not seen those games in a good 8 years. They'd feel fresh, unlike playing WoW's formula and gameplay and UI and instancing over and over and over again.
So you have no innovation to bring to the table, just hacked up chucnks of games you think are top notch. Your UO clone is noted, move along, nothing to see.
WoW was so much ahead of its time no game till today can match WoW on release, as they are missing crucial aspects. And WoW was not all that innovative either.
What good WoW really did is it solved the conflicting demands on MMO games. It allowed solo and party and raids to coexist, it allowed player competititon without player conflict, it made small servers and limited game scope feel like world, it attracted hardcores and casuals, it brough cutting edge genre to outdated machines.
What it did not do, quite the opposite, is to progress the concept of virtual world simulation - MMOs as we know them today are very much not living virtual worlds.
Most progress in MMOs is in the field of addons (including addons being incorporated into base game).
Mainstream MMOs didn't bring too much innovation obviously.
Just take any AAA MMO released after WoW and list any new feature that WoW hasn't
The only thing I can think of is the Warhammer Public Quests, which is hardly revolutionary since it's not even properly implemented (not even Rifts did this right)
WoW was so much ahead of its time no game till today can match WoW on release, as they are missing crucial aspects. And WoW was not all that innovative either.
What good WoW really did is it solved the conflicting demands on MMO games. It allowed solo and party and raids to coexist, it allowed player competititon without player conflict, it made small servers and limited game scope feel like world, it attracted hardcores and casuals, it brough cutting edge genre to outdated machines.
What it did not do, quite the opposite, is to progress the concept of virtual world simulation - MMOs as we know them today are very much not living virtual worlds.
Most progress in MMOs is in the field of addons (including addons being incorporated into base game).
I think the biggest issue with the 'virtual worlds' concept is the technology.
Unless we go back to the 16bit graphics era, there is no way you are going to get thousands of people in an area and not lag out unless you have Deep Blue.
Even EVE-Online suffers from this where 500 vs 500 ship battles just doesn't happen cause it crashes the 'node'.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I play Final Fantasy XIV. As much as it had a horrible launch, the current development team (who replaced the old one) are diligently working on the game. They have already added quests, fixed lots of bugs, and have put great improvements on user interface.
Give it a shot, because after playing lots and lots of other MMORPGs, I have yet to play a game that is, in any way, similar to Final Fantasy XIV. Final Fantasy XI would probably be similar to it, but I don't know because I haven't played that game.
... And one other thing... This game is FAR FOR BEING A WoW CLONE!
I'm like so many others in this thread (and community) where I always believed MMO's were world simulators, alternative realities, and hubs for gaming nerds the world over. Where everyone can get together and truly explore another reality.
Back when EverQuest came out, I thought, gee.. this is pretty fricking amazing, the first expansive 3D forray into an online universe. It can only get better, and expand more and more. The worlds would simply grow beyond imagining, and innovations would be awe-inspiring gaming triumphs, where every studio would compete for the next amazing feature.
How naive and spoiled we all were.
Now MOG's today are little more than what they were from the beginning. These decade-old formulas. Grindfests, uninspired worlds or too-inspired and under-delivered.
You see, the average person in this world is truly a mindless being, who watches American Idol and is only half-aware of his or her surroundings. This applies to gaming also, and it is what investors fund for.. the largest pool. So all the rest of us perceptive folks scrounge what we can from the joyless scraps we are given.
It's not all bad, there is plenty of joy to be had from a lot of online games, but you really have to put into it and try not to ask for too much. Though it is sad, when you think what games could be today, were it not for the lowest common denonimator factor.
Now MOG's today are little more than what they were from the beginning. These decade-old formulas. Grindfests, uninspired worlds or too-inspired and under-delivered.
You see, the average person in this world is truly a mindless being, who watches American Idol and is only half-aware of his or her surroundings. This applies to gaming also, and it is what investors fund for.. the largest pool. So all the rest of us perceptive folks scrounge what we can from the joyless scraps we are given.
It's not all bad, there is plenty of joy to be had from a lot of online games, but you really have to put into it and try not to ask for too much. Though it is sad, when you think what games could be today, were it not for the lowest common denonimator factor.
That's a great argument you make, that's food for thought.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The score I got on this are so pathetic that I am totally embarassed to even put them up but it does show a trend that even those that say they want the industry to change, really don't.
WoW was so much ahead of its time no game till today can match WoW on release, as they are missing crucial aspects
Are you serious? Ahead of its time? But having about 1/6 of the features of the games that came before it and no innovative ideas of its own? It had marketing, that's it.
I like where the genre is headed and see lots of progress and continued innovation and evolution. I see more choice in how I play and what I do than ever before and expect that continue.
Genre gets a thumbs up from me.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I like where the genre is headed and see lots of progress and continued innovation and evolution. I see more choice in how I play and what I do than ever before and expect that continue.
Genre gets a thumbs up from me.
Venge
Yeah but you've already proven that you consider the 2 innovations over the past 7 years plenty, and you pretend that everything you could do in old MMOs you can do in new ones, which.. you're wrong.
Nope sorry but your wrong. You haven't proven anything, except that you are blinded to all the little evolutions, progress and growth that has been made and allready stated in this thread. And everything I did in the past I can still do today, which is true. There is literally nothing that I wasn't doing in MMO's 12 years ago that I amn not doing today and I have even more choice on games and playstyles.
All the old ones are still around and when I feel like that type of game I play it, they're are also many newer ones that have lots of elements from those old games.
So sorry Garvon but you're wrong, your just too blinded by hate to realize it.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Nope sorry but your wrong. You haven't proven anything, except that you are blinded to all the little evolutions, progress and growth that has been made and allready stated in this thread. Tiny innovations? Maybe like, 3 of them, at best, like you said, 3 time innovations over the course of 7 years, that's pathetic. And everything I did in the past I can still do today, which is true. YOU maybe, I guess you didn't do anything in old MMOs. But its factually incorrect to say everything you could do in old MMOs you can do in new ones. So stop trying to peddle that garbage, you lost that fight 6 pages ago, them promptly ignored the post.
All the old ones are still around Nope, wrong, sorry buddy but this is so far from the truth it hurts. Not only that, but your argument was "Anything old MMOs did, new MMOs do", not "I can go back and play old MMOs (which, you can't) "
Nope sorry but your wrong. You haven't proven anything, except that you are blinded to all the little evolutions, progress and growth that has been made and allready stated in this thread. Tiny innovations? Maybe like, 3 of them, at best, like you said, 3 time innovations over the course of 7 years, that's pathetic. And everything I did in the past I can still do today, which is true. YOU maybe, I guess you didn't do anything in old MMOs. But its factually incorrect to say everything you could do in old MMOs you can do in new ones. So stop trying to peddle that garbage, you lost that fight 6 pages ago, them promptly ignored the post.
All the old ones are still around Nope, wrong, sorry buddy but this is so far from the truth it hurts. Not only that, but your argument was "Anything old MMOs did, new MMOs do", not "I can go back and play old MMOs (which, you can't) "
Once again your wrong. Those were just the ones that I had mentioned, others in this thread of mentioned others. And of course there has been changes in those innovations which is also progress, and growth in those innovations which is also progress.
And once again everything we did in the past, if the game still exists we can do today. And some new games are incorporating those features and others are not. So it is factually correct to say that everything we did 12 years ago, we can do today. So stop trying to say we can't, you lost that fight allready.
Nope sorry friend. Many/most of those old MMO's are still around with the features they had before. And there are a lot of new MMO's on the market. You should check out all the different ones instead of yelling wow clone everywhere. Time for you to learn something I guess.
Venge
edit - on a sidenote. I really think yoiu have a problem Garvon. Everyone single one of your posts, going through your history, is spwering anger, hate and vitriol. If you were a patient of mine I would refer to a psych for some relaxation/meditation and CBT. You need to calm down a bit. If you are that angry, than you need to leave for a bit and get some perspective.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Comments
We live in a free-market/capitalistic society.
If you think the 'demand' for your perfect MMO is there, you can raise some funds and make it yourself.
Otherwise, market has been saying that 'WoW type gameplay is king' for the past 6/7 years.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
So you have no innovation to bring to the table, just hacked up chucnks of games you think are top notch. Your UO clone is noted, move along, nothing to see.
WoW was so much ahead of its time no game till today can match WoW on release, as they are missing crucial aspects. And WoW was not all that innovative either.
What good WoW really did is it solved the conflicting demands on MMO games. It allowed solo and party and raids to coexist, it allowed player competititon without player conflict, it made small servers and limited game scope feel like world, it attracted hardcores and casuals, it brough cutting edge genre to outdated machines.
What it did not do, quite the opposite, is to progress the concept of virtual world simulation - MMOs as we know them today are very much not living virtual worlds.
Most progress in MMOs is in the field of addons (including addons being incorporated into base game).
Mainstream MMOs didn't bring too much innovation obviously.
Just take any AAA MMO released after WoW and list any new feature that WoW hasn't
The only thing I can think of is the Warhammer Public Quests, which is hardly revolutionary since it's not even properly implemented (not even Rifts did this right)
I think the biggest issue with the 'virtual worlds' concept is the technology.
Unless we go back to the 16bit graphics era, there is no way you are going to get thousands of people in an area and not lag out unless you have Deep Blue.
Even EVE-Online suffers from this where 500 vs 500 ship battles just doesn't happen cause it crashes the 'node'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I play Final Fantasy XIV. As much as it had a horrible launch, the current development team (who replaced the old one) are diligently working on the game. They have already added quests, fixed lots of bugs, and have put great improvements on user interface.
Give it a shot, because after playing lots and lots of other MMORPGs, I have yet to play a game that is, in any way, similar to Final Fantasy XIV. Final Fantasy XI would probably be similar to it, but I don't know because I haven't played that game.
... And one other thing... This game is FAR FOR BEING A WoW CLONE!
Intensity beats extensity everytime...
I'm like so many others in this thread (and community) where I always believed MMO's were world simulators, alternative realities, and hubs for gaming nerds the world over. Where everyone can get together and truly explore another reality.
Back when EverQuest came out, I thought, gee.. this is pretty fricking amazing, the first expansive 3D forray into an online universe. It can only get better, and expand more and more. The worlds would simply grow beyond imagining, and innovations would be awe-inspiring gaming triumphs, where every studio would compete for the next amazing feature.
How naive and spoiled we all were.
Now MOG's today are little more than what they were from the beginning. These decade-old formulas. Grindfests, uninspired worlds or too-inspired and under-delivered.
You see, the average person in this world is truly a mindless being, who watches American Idol and is only half-aware of his or her surroundings. This applies to gaming also, and it is what investors fund for.. the largest pool. So all the rest of us perceptive folks scrounge what we can from the joyless scraps we are given.
It's not all bad, there is plenty of joy to be had from a lot of online games, but you really have to put into it and try not to ask for too much. Though it is sad, when you think what games could be today, were it not for the lowest common denonimator factor.
That's a great argument you make, that's food for thought.
In fact, I'm going to use it for another thread.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
statement retracted. Videos removed.
The score I got on this are so pathetic that I am totally embarassed to even put them up but it does show a trend that even those that say they want the industry to change, really don't.
Are you serious? Ahead of its time? But having about 1/6 of the features of the games that came before it and no innovative ideas of its own? It had marketing, that's it.
I like where the genre is headed and see lots of progress and continued innovation and evolution. I see more choice in how I play and what I do than ever before and expect that continue.
Genre gets a thumbs up from me.
Venge
Yeah but you've already proven that you consider the 2 innovations over the past 7 years plenty, and you pretend that everything you could do in old MMOs you can do in new ones, which.. you're wrong.
Nope sorry but your wrong. You haven't proven anything, except that you are blinded to all the little evolutions, progress and growth that has been made and allready stated in this thread. And everything I did in the past I can still do today, which is true. There is literally nothing that I wasn't doing in MMO's 12 years ago that I amn not doing today and I have even more choice on games and playstyles.
All the old ones are still around and when I feel like that type of game I play it, they're are also many newer ones that have lots of elements from those old games.
So sorry Garvon but you're wrong, your just too blinded by hate to realize it.
Venge
Once again your wrong. Those were just the ones that I had mentioned, others in this thread of mentioned others. And of course there has been changes in those innovations which is also progress, and growth in those innovations which is also progress.
And once again everything we did in the past, if the game still exists we can do today. And some new games are incorporating those features and others are not. So it is factually correct to say that everything we did 12 years ago, we can do today. So stop trying to say we can't, you lost that fight allready.
Nope sorry friend. Many/most of those old MMO's are still around with the features they had before. And there are a lot of new MMO's on the market. You should check out all the different ones instead of yelling wow clone everywhere. Time for you to learn something I guess.
Venge
edit - on a sidenote. I really think yoiu have a problem Garvon. Everyone single one of your posts, going through your history, is spwering anger, hate and vitriol. If you were a patient of mine I would refer to a psych for some relaxation/meditation and CBT. You need to calm down a bit. If you are that angry, than you need to leave for a bit and get some perspective.