You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
So all of those things you say Trion should not have done, how should they have done them? Again, all you're doing is complaining and not offering any constructive suggestions.
It is extremely hard to come out with a unique design in a mature industry where most designs or concepts have already been developed to some extent. You complain that Rift does 'nothing that hasn't already been done', well, because there isn't really anything new you can do. You can only make something so many different ways.
I would like to say however, that while Rift does draw from mechanics from previous MMOs, it combines and improves on them beyond it's predecessors. The rifts system may draw from PQs in Warhammer, but the system is done significantly better. The crafting system may draw from WoW, but it's better because of the augment system. Rift may use a questing system similar to WoW, but it's also much more optional than in WoW because you can also level up grinding rifts.
It's all about perspective.
Rift isn't a groundbreaking game, but hey then again WoW wasn't either. Rift draws from previous MMOs, but it also improves a good bit on what it's based on.
All in all Rift is a solid MMO. It's more on the themepark end of the spectrum, so that's what it's going to play like. If You feel that Rift is just 'more of the same', well I've got some dissapointing news for you... TOR and GW2 are going to be more, of more of the same to you.
I have played many MMORPGs and I must say that everything from user interface to class-based roles (healer, DPS, Tank) this game has, has been done by other MMORPGs so there is almost nothing new here. [This might make the game a bit boring, (to you) but it doesn't make it "bad", which implies some sort of low quality aspect.]
Only things worth mentioning is the flexible soul system which does not able you to mix any classes (a tank is still a tank and cannot be a tank/mage) which is fun for maybe a couple of hours before you realise it is simply the same standard tank, dps, healing abilities spread out on several sub-classes with alot of redundancy. [Well, Justicar I hear makes a decent Cleric Tank, and I enjoy having several specs to play with on my cleric, but would there really be any point to having 4 different classes if everyone could do each role the same?) There's nothing "bad" about using the Triad in design, just a choice by the dev's to follow a pattern many gamers enjoy]
Rifts is also a novelty but one that also wears out quickly. Basically all of them are random mob spawns that grow in dificulty depending on several factors. But from what I have experienced, they always despawn, no matter what. Seems there is a timer of sort.
[Well, I'm glad they do despawn eventually, because sometimes there's no one around to take them down, annoying if you need to do a quest turn in. And for real fun in Rifts, play in a PVP server and see if your faction rivals will chose to help you take down the Rift, attack you without question, or wait until the Rift closes and then you can fight to the death. Some of the Rift bosses can be pretty tough, had one the other night that was killing from range and I died at least 1/2 dozen times, still trying to figure out how to beat that. Again, they might be too repititious for you, but they are not "bad"]
Other than that this game is simply a equivalent of another generic Cola, except Coca Cola (=WoW) is the one that most people will buy and most people will go back to once the novelty of a new fresh drink has worn of. [ True enough, its a lot like WOW, and a lot of people will likely go back to WOW, (for a bit), but its nice to have another land to visit for a spell, sort of a vacation. But again, this does not make Rift "Bad" in anyway.]
PS: Yes this is a counter to the other post here. {mod edit}
[Well, if you're going to counter something , at least post something about Rift that is actually "Bad" and not just your opinion about why you don't like the game mechanics, because you don't like it doesn't make it bad].
And actually, that's the problem with most of the posts on this thread, no one is really listing anything "bad" about Rift, just why they don't care for some mechanic or another that Rift either has or lacks.
One person posted about being charged 5.5 Plat to respect, definitely a defect and is bad, (hope he reported that) but the rest here keep saying "its the same", or some such, which I more or less agree with, but the game isn't bad, it just isn't.
No matter what people tell you, some opinions are in fact, wrong.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
So all of those things you say Trion should not have done, how should they have done them? Again, all you're doing is complaining and not offering any constructive suggestions.
It is extremely hard to come out with a unique design in a mature industry where most designs or concepts have already been developed to some extent. You complain that Rift does 'nothing that hasn't already been done', well, because there isn't really anything new you can do. You can only make something so many different ways.
I would like to say however, that while Rift does draw from mechanics from previous MMOs, it combines and improves on them beyond it's predecessors. The rifts system may draw from PQs in Warhammer, but the system is done significantly better. The crafting system may draw from WoW, but it's better because of the augment system. Rift may use a questing system similar to WoW, but it's also much more optional than in WoW because you can also level up grinding rifts.
It's all about perspective.
Rift isn't a groundbreaking game, but hey then again WoW wasn't either. Rift draws from previous MMOs, but it also improves a good bit on what it's based on.
All in all Rift is a solid MMO. It's more on the themepark end of the spectrum, so that's what it's going to play like. If You feel that Rift is just 'more of the same', well I've got some dissapointing news for you... TOR and GW2 are going to be more, of more of the same to you.
He's established he doesn't like the themepark genre. don't waste your time trying to explain it to him. It's confusing, yes, but it's pretty clear cause everything is listed is evat every single themepark has. He's looking fer a sandbox. 8D
Rift is the first "clone" ive played that i feel is worth not only buying, but worth paying a sub for.
However that doesnt mean i will do that. I won the game so im playing the first 30 days cuz i still havent found a good game to keep me hooked, i am playing a ton of great games tho.
Anyways i hated on Rift too when i first beta'd it months ago because i was still playing WoW and so of course i was like whatever. A few months later tho (now) after i quit WoW and still havent found a game im playing Rift and forcing myself to accept it for what it is: an upgraded worthy clone.
Ive always thought Rift was beautiful, i just didnt want to play it because it was the same old crap. However i have enjoyed the different styles of that "same old crap" with the 100s of clones out there. While finding myself enjoying Rift more than i expected i finally realized that "this is the clone worth playing."
Were you like me? Looking for something new and finding the same old crap in every single game? I did that for months, and like i said i enjoyed the styles and stuff it was just they werent worth continuing to me.
Rift is the clone thats totally worth it.
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Rift is the first "clone" ive played that i feel is worth not only buying, but worth paying a sub for.
However that doesnt mean i will do that. I won the game so im playing the first 30 days cuz i still havent found a good game to keep me hooked, i am playing a ton of great games tho.
Anyways i hated on Rift too when i first beta'd it months ago because i was still playing WoW and so of course i was like whatever. A few months later tho (now) after i quit WoW and still havent found a game im playing Rift and forcing myself to accept it for what it is: an upgraded worthy clone.
Ive always thought Rift was beautiful, i just didnt want to play it because it was the same old crap. However i have enjoyed the different styles of that "same old crap" with the 100s of clones out there. While finding myself enjoying Rift more than i expected i finally realized that "this is the clone worth playing."
Were you like me? Looking for something new and finding the same old crap in every single game? I did that for months, and like i said i enjoyed the styles and stuff it was just they werent worth continuing to me.
Rift is the clone thats totally worth it.
The Gamepro article puts this in pretty good detail. It all depends on what people want. The game isn't perfect, but it does do a lot of things right. It's all about whether the upsides outweigh the downsides for each player.
Judging a game based upon its population is a flawed FLAWED way of tracking success. Age of Conan was a failure because they got back less money than they spent. Most of the teams associated with Age of Conan closed down and went bankrupt. Does it have more subs than Darkfall? Yup. Difference is, Darkfall is growing and turning a profit. Age of Conan is not.
And no, a WoW clone, by general concenus, has always described games that are almost identical to WoW in terms of overarching gameplay mechanics, simplicity, over use of instances, quest based leveling, all that jazz. Rift even has the WoW UI (now thats just sad). WoW clones, almost as a rule, usually have 1 or 2 mechanics for "flavor" that they can call their own, but they're surface features that just try to hide the clone within. Age of Conan had its graphics and "combo" combat system. Aion had wings. LotRO had cut scenes. Rift has rifts. It does almost nothing substatially different. It is a WoW clone.
You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
Thats more of a dodge than an answer. Its easy to say "By not ..." but that really doesn't help teh argument. How about examples of what they could have done instead? They could have literally done anything else. There's SCORES of MMOs out there that do things differently, they could have copied them instead of even come up with their own ideas, but they didn't. If you're asking me to design an entire game for them, I won't, that's their job. Seems all their designers just played WoW and took that.
As for older games being able to come up with unique designs... well seeing as those games were pretty much the only games in the early years of the genre, they really didn't have much to copy from nor much to be compaired to. Well, with such uncertainty, they had even MORE reason not to come up with new ideas. Seeing the success of UO or EQ they could have just copied those games over and over. But, they didn't. They created their own ideas and own games. Don't try to tell me "Oh yeah it was so much easier to come up with new ideas back then because there were fewer games". That logic breaks down very quickly. You don't go from having 7 years of consistantly new ideas to 1 new idea every 4-5 years just because there are more games in a market. Does that happen in the RTS genre? The RPG genre? No it does not. Some games get cloned, but many more have their own ideas. Whats more is, it's not like ALL the old ideas are getting copied, only a very small subset of ideas are getting copied, the WoW ones. No AAA company is copying UO, or EQ, or SWG, or DAoC. I'd gladly play a clone of one of those games. People are just fed up with the same thing over and over and if somebody made a clone of a game that hasn't been in the limelight in a decade, it'd feel a lot more fresh than cloning WoW AGAIN.
Now that the genre has been around for a while and many games have come and gone it will get harder and harder to be unique no games are trying to be unique, they're trying to copy WoW blow for blow. I mean, it's sad how similar the games have become. There are a million different pre established features out there they can mix and match with if they want to be unique, but they don't. , especially if you don't want to risk losing out on players (because the worst part of this genre is the player and how nit-picky we are) so it's a smarter idea to try to pull in subscribers from one game by... making the exact same game? even after a large number of AAA already tried that idea and totally failed? . If a developer goes 100% unique in design, players will bitch and moan that it isn't like game X. Nobody is saying 100% unique design, but even 10% would be refreshing these days. If a dev retools features that players liked from other games, players will bitch and moan that its just like game X. Not if those features haven't been DONE TO DEATH by DOZENS OF WOW CLONES. Its a viscious damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario.
This game is the same old crap like every other past mmo...they are no innovation.... this game is ok for a new mmo player...but i play mmo since 10 years + and this game is the same thing like every mmo i played inthe past...
i hope TSW , SWTOR or Guild war 2 give me new experience mmo
Still waiting for the real "million subs".. or any official number on a substantial number of subs. I know we can't believe the statistic sites. And obviously we can't believe creative terminology for the gullible. "One million accounts".
What did RIFT do wrong? (People act like they're not getting the answer to the question, but it's everywhere). They copied WoW. They didn't hybrid several games, they put public quests in WoW and labeled it something else. If there's no innovation to be made in MMO's anymore, you can at least take from seveal sources so that people coming from a game don't feel like they're just doing the same thing again.
* * *
I want to play DCUO, even knowing people are leaving quickly. So while I wait for April to come, I downloaded CoH just for the general basic feel (Can I like a Superhero MMO?) and I see a game that's not exactly the polar opposite of games like RIFT and WoW. It has it's similarities but it feels different and it looks different. Every menu I've come to is different than it's Warcraft or FFXI or RIFT counterpart (FFXI was very different from WoW as well). The action bar is not center,bottom of the screen like warcraft. Merchants interact different. And the questing interface is different, though I despise it. There's no GCD but abilities have recast times and animation times.
A dedicated skinner could make a wow mod so tha WoW's interface frames and borders just like just like RIFT. I think it would be pretty funny to do.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
So all of those things you say Trion should not have done, how should they have done them? Again, all you're doing is complaining and not offering any constructive suggestions.
It is extremely hard to come out with a unique design in a mature industry where most designs or concepts have already been developed to some extent. You complain that Rift does 'nothing that hasn't already been done', well, because there isn't really anything new you can do. You can only make something so many different ways.
I would like to say however, that while Rift does draw from mechanics from previous MMOs, it combines and improves on them beyond it's predecessors. The rifts system may draw from PQs in Warhammer, but the system is done significantly better. The crafting system may draw from WoW, but it's better because of the augment system. Rift may use a questing system similar to WoW, but it's also much more optional than in WoW because you can also level up grinding rifts.
It's all about perspective.
Rift isn't a groundbreaking game, but hey then again WoW wasn't either. Rift draws from previous MMOs, but it also improves a good bit on what it's based on.
All in all Rift is a solid MMO. It's more on the themepark end of the spectrum, so that's what it's going to play like. If You feel that Rift is just 'more of the same', well I've got some dissapointing news for you... TOR and GW2 are going to be more, of more of the same to you.
He's established he doesn't like the themepark genre. don't waste your time trying to explain it to him. It's confusing, yes, but it's pretty clear cause everything is listed is evat every single themepark has. He's looking fer a sandbox. 8D
Kids these days...
Themepark != WoW clone. I don't like WoW clones. Themepark games are fine if they do something new. But considering the last 5 or so AAA themepark games have been WoW clones... Stop trying to pigeonhole "Oh he just doesn't like MMOs" I love MMOs, I've played themepark games in the past. It's just in recent years themepark has come to mean WoW clone and MMO has come to mean Diablo with a monthly fee and chat box. I don't necessarily want a sandbox game, which is what you're trying to imply, I just want a game that isn't a WoW clone.
You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
So all of those things you say Trion should not have done, how should they have done them? Again, all you're doing is complaining and not offering any constructive suggestions.
It is extremely hard to come out with a unique design in a mature industry where most designs or concepts have already been developed to some extent. You complain that Rift does 'nothing that hasn't already been done', well, because there isn't really anything new you can do. You can only make something so many different ways.
I would like to say however, that while Rift does draw from mechanics from previous MMOs, it combines and improves on them beyond it's predecessors. The rifts system may draw from PQs in Warhammer, but the system is done significantly better. The crafting system may draw from WoW, but it's better because of the augment system. Rift may use a questing system similar to WoW, but it's also much more optional than in WoW because you can also level up grinding rifts.
It's all about perspective.
Rift isn't a groundbreaking game, but hey then again WoW wasn't either. Rift draws from previous MMOs, but it also improves a good bit on what it's based on.
All in all Rift is a solid MMO. It's more on the themepark end of the spectrum, so that's what it's going to play like. If You feel that Rift is just 'more of the same', well I've got some dissapointing news for you... TOR and GW2 are going to be more, of more of the same to you.
He's established he doesn't like the themepark genre. don't waste your time trying to explain it to him. It's confusing, yes, but it's pretty clear cause everything is listed is evat every single themepark has. He's looking fer a sandbox. 8D
Kids these days...
Themepark != WoW clone. I don't like WoW clones. Themepark games are fine if they do something new. But considering the last 5 or so AAA themepark games have been WoW clones... Stop trying to pigeonhole "Oh he just doesn't like MMOs" I love MMOs, I've played themepark games in the past. It's just in recent years themepark has come to mean WoW clone and MMO has come to mean Diablo with a monthly fee and chat box. I don't necessarily want a sandbox game, which is what you're trying to imply, I just want a game that isn't a WoW clone.
That is my point the bullet points he laid out for WoW clone apply also to new MMOs in devolopment. Like it or not MMOs are going to have characteristics that are similar to each other. Even GW2 devs admitted making changes to make it more similar to traditional MMOs due to compliants in closed beta.
You've still not answered the multi-million dollar question.
What could Trion have done or not done with Rift so it would not have been branded a WoW clone by yourself and others
By not copying WoW?
By not making quest based leveling the primary way to level in the game?
By not making their quests the same as WoW's?
By not making their PvP the same as WoW's?
By not making their UI the same as WoW's?
By not making their instances the same as WoW?
By not making their dungeons the same as WoW?
By not making the progression goal the same as WoW? (raids)
By not making their death penalty the same as WoW's?
Is it really so hard to come up with a unique design? Old MMOs managed it just fine despite having less tech and less developers. There were many great games before WoW (most consider greater than post WoW games) so if they really wanted to clone something they could have at least cloned the old ideas and tried to pretend they were unique.
So all of those things you say Trion should not have done, how should they have done them? Again, all you're doing is complaining and not offering any constructive suggestions.
It is extremely hard to come out with a unique design in a mature industry where most designs or concepts have already been developed to some extent. You complain that Rift does 'nothing that hasn't already been done', well, because there isn't really anything new you can do. You can only make something so many different ways.
I would like to say however, that while Rift does draw from mechanics from previous MMOs, it combines and improves on them beyond it's predecessors. The rifts system may draw from PQs in Warhammer, but the system is done significantly better. The crafting system may draw from WoW, but it's better because of the augment system. Rift may use a questing system similar to WoW, but it's also much more optional than in WoW because you can also level up grinding rifts.
It's all about perspective.
Rift isn't a groundbreaking game, but hey then again WoW wasn't either. Rift draws from previous MMOs, but it also improves a good bit on what it's based on.
All in all Rift is a solid MMO. It's more on the themepark end of the spectrum, so that's what it's going to play like. If You feel that Rift is just 'more of the same', well I've got some dissapointing news for you... TOR and GW2 are going to be more, of more of the same to you.
He's established he doesn't like the themepark genre. don't waste your time trying to explain it to him. It's confusing, yes, but it's pretty clear cause everything is listed is evat every single themepark has. He's looking fer a sandbox. 8D
Kids these days...
Themepark != WoW clone. I don't like WoW clones. Themepark games are fine if they do something new. But considering the last 5 or so AAA themepark games have been WoW clones... Stop trying to pigeonhole "Oh he just doesn't like MMOs" I love MMOs, I've played themepark games in the past. It's just in recent years themepark has come to mean WoW clone and MMO has come to mean Diablo with a monthly fee and chat box. I don't necessarily want a sandbox game, which is what you're trying to imply, I just want a game that isn't a WoW clone.
So by your logic SWTOR is also a WoW clone?
It's not out yet so it's hard to judge, but yes many aspects of it seem WoW cloneish. So far I'd say SWOTR is more a spiritual WoW clone than a mechanical one. I don't know the exact mechanics because its not out yet, but the devs are clearly emphasizing the heavy instancing and the solo play with NPC companions through a linear scripted world/story, and from what we've seen of the PvP so far its in the same vein as WoW. Arenas and Battlegrounds, all fair and "matched up" like esports. Less of a virtual world, more of a singleplayer RPG, which is WoW at its core.
But, I can't quite comment, because its not out, and it does seem to be trying a few new ideas (even if those ideas steer close to the WoW single player philosophy)
That is my point the bullet points he laid out for WoW clone apply also to new MMOs in devolopment. Like it or not MMOs are going to have characteristics that are similar to each other. Even GW2 devs admitted making changes to make it more similar to traditional MMOs due to compliants in closed beta.
Wow, they did, seriously? Looks like I can cross another game off my list. They did the exact same thing in the Age of Conan beta, knocking the combat system down from 8 directions to 3 and putting a heavier emphasis on raiding. That turned out so well for Funcom... I hate what this genre's become.
As for "MMOs having characteristics that are similar to one another" there's a difference between similarity and cloning. EQ, DAoC, UO, AC, SWG, they had similarities. LotRO and WoW? More of direct carbon copying. Learn the difference if you want to know what is and isn't a clone.
Only things worth mentioning is the flexible soul system which does not able you to mix any classes (a tank is still a tank and cannot be a tank/mage)
That's not true. For example, the other day I was running an expert as sab for straight dps, and we ran into a boss where we needed the speed buff from bard. We failed a bunch of times so I went and respecced 20 points in bard for the speed buff.
I was then mostly dps with some support.
It's true you sacrifice something to go hybrid but it can be done. Usually it's better to go straight one thing or the other, but that's only because you're usually in the group to do only one thing.
As for Rift being the same as other MMOs, yup that's true for the most part. But it's well done. Turns out a well-done copy is usually more fun to play than an ambitious but ultimately flawed original, which are what original MMOs tend to be.
That is my point the bullet points he laid out for WoW clone apply also to new MMOs in devolopment. Like it or not MMOs are going to have characteristics that are similar to each other. Even GW2 devs admitted making changes to make it more similar to traditional MMOs due to compliants in closed beta.
Source, or it did not happen. And how do you know the game is in closed beta? They've only said that closed alpha and beta tests would take place this year.
Only things worth mentioning is the flexible soul system which does not able you to mix any classes (a tank is still a tank and cannot be a tank/mage)
That's not true. For example, the other day I was running an expert as sab for straight dps, and we ran into a boss where we needed the speed buff from bard. We failed a bunch of times so I went and respecced 20 points in bard for the speed buff.
I was then mostly dps with some support.
It's true you sacrifice something to go hybrid but it can be done. Usually it's better to go straight one thing or the other, but that's only because you're usually in the group to do only one thing.
As for Rift being the same as other MMOs, yup that's true for the most part. But it's well done. Turns out a well-done copy is usually more fun to play than an ambitious but ultimately flawed original, which are what original MMOs tend to be.
People making those comments (like the one you put in red) are not playing the game. Their friends are, hence their motivation why they bash the game on these forums. Their blaitant lies and misinformation has gone from insidious to laughable based on what little they truly know about the game. Truth like what you have expressed will fall on deaf ears. Their intent isn't to be shown the way. Their intent is to just bash the game because they are bitter. It's that simple. I have no problem discusing about things Rift has and what it could do better. Statements like the one you countered are only intended to convince others not try the game. That's it.
Only things worth mentioning is the flexible soul system which does not able you to mix any classes (a tank is still a tank and cannot be a tank/mage)
That's not true. For example, the other day I was running an expert as sab for straight dps, and we ran into a boss where we needed the speed buff from bard. We failed a bunch of times so I went and respecced 20 points in bard for the speed buff.
I was then mostly dps with some support.
It's true you sacrifice something to go hybrid but it can be done. Usually it's better to go straight one thing or the other, but that's only because you're usually in the group to do only one thing.
As for Rift being the same as other MMOs, yup that's true for the most part. But it's well done. Turns out a well-done copy is usually more fun to play than an ambitious but ultimately flawed original, which are what original MMOs tend to be.
People making those comments (like the one you put in red) are not playing the game. Their friends are, hence their motivation why they bash the game on these forums. Their blaitant lies and misinformation has gone from insidious to laughable based on what little they truly know about the game. Truth like what you have expressed will fall on deaf ears. Their intent isn't to be shown the way. Their intent is to just bash the game because they are bitter. It's that simple. I have no problem discusing about things Rift has and what it could do better. Statements like the one you countered are only intended to convince others not try the game. That's it.
I'm not playing, but I'm not playing anything atm.
But the red statement is kind of true. I think the red statement is trying to say, though poorly worded, that a warrior cannot play with souls from say cleric or rogue's calling.
It's fine though because most callings can play several roles. Though you won't see warrior as a main healer, and I don't think mages can tank (?). But it's not like a rogue is strictly dps or or a warrior is strictly tank. etc etc.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
You present yourself as having some experience with the game, which as someone who has been playing Rift since beta 5, I can tell you that you don't.
I'm not sure how you playing the game, at most, a month longer than him somehow makes your opinion superior and his obsolete.
Why do so many people fall upon the lack of an argument that is: "You've obviously never played the game if you have [insert problem here] with it."
It's not a particularly deep and complex game, and neither was WoW.
When you blatantly screw up on the details and present it as truth, it then becomes an issue of an obsolete opinion. Part of the point-by-point argument was to demonstrate where he misrepresented information or provided incomplete at best information. That is why his opinion isn't worth much, not simply because I say so.
The OP mentioned an analogy to cola for which I would like to finish for him if I may; If WOW is Coca Cola Classic, then Rift is New Coke, a product introduction that was sadly thought out, greatly marketed and ultimately "fizzled" away.
The OP mentioned an analogy to cola for which I would like to finish for him if I may; If WOW is Coca Cola Classic, then Rift is New Coke, a product introduction that was sadly thought out, greatly marketed and ultimately "fizzled" away.
You're missing the part where New Coke was overwhelmingly hated by the public. Rift is not. It's a massive success, so your analogy doesn't hold water. Oh and the public didn't need 30 days to find out that they hated New Coke btw.
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No, there isn't a lot new in rift, but it is fun while I wait for other gaems to come out.
So all of those things you say Trion should not have done, how should they have done them? Again, all you're doing is complaining and not offering any constructive suggestions.
It is extremely hard to come out with a unique design in a mature industry where most designs or concepts have already been developed to some extent. You complain that Rift does 'nothing that hasn't already been done', well, because there isn't really anything new you can do. You can only make something so many different ways.
I would like to say however, that while Rift does draw from mechanics from previous MMOs, it combines and improves on them beyond it's predecessors. The rifts system may draw from PQs in Warhammer, but the system is done significantly better. The crafting system may draw from WoW, but it's better because of the augment system. Rift may use a questing system similar to WoW, but it's also much more optional than in WoW because you can also level up grinding rifts.
It's all about perspective.
Rift isn't a groundbreaking game, but hey then again WoW wasn't either. Rift draws from previous MMOs, but it also improves a good bit on what it's based on.
All in all Rift is a solid MMO. It's more on the themepark end of the spectrum, so that's what it's going to play like. If You feel that Rift is just 'more of the same', well I've got some dissapointing news for you... TOR and GW2 are going to be more, of more of the same to you.
And actually, that's the problem with most of the posts on this thread, no one is really listing anything "bad" about Rift, just why they don't care for some mechanic or another that Rift either has or lacks.
One person posted about being charged 5.5 Plat to respect, definitely a defect and is bad, (hope he reported that) but the rest here keep saying "its the same", or some such, which I more or less agree with, but the game isn't bad, it just isn't.
No matter what people tell you, some opinions are in fact, wrong.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
He's established he doesn't like the themepark genre. don't waste your time trying to explain it to him. It's confusing, yes, but it's pretty clear cause everything is listed is evat every single themepark has. He's looking fer a sandbox. 8D
I agree completely Kyleran
/yawn Some people try too hard.
Don't like it. move on. the game is doing phenomenal with or without you.
Warhammer Online and Age of Conan dropped significantly the first month out.
Aion held population for about 3 months, until lack of changes to player concerns started to impact the game significantly.
Rift is the first "clone" ive played that i feel is worth not only buying, but worth paying a sub for.
However that doesnt mean i will do that. I won the game so im playing the first 30 days cuz i still havent found a good game to keep me hooked, i am playing a ton of great games tho.
Anyways i hated on Rift too when i first beta'd it months ago because i was still playing WoW and so of course i was like whatever. A few months later tho (now) after i quit WoW and still havent found a game im playing Rift and forcing myself to accept it for what it is: an upgraded worthy clone.
Ive always thought Rift was beautiful, i just didnt want to play it because it was the same old crap. However i have enjoyed the different styles of that "same old crap" with the 100s of clones out there. While finding myself enjoying Rift more than i expected i finally realized that "this is the clone worth playing."
Were you like me? Looking for something new and finding the same old crap in every single game? I did that for months, and like i said i enjoyed the styles and stuff it was just they werent worth continuing to me.
Rift is the clone thats totally worth it.
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The Gamepro article puts this in pretty good detail. It all depends on what people want. The game isn't perfect, but it does do a lot of things right. It's all about whether the upsides outweigh the downsides for each player.
This game is the same old crap like every other past mmo...they are no innovation.... this game is ok for a new mmo player...but i play mmo since 10 years + and this game is the same thing like every mmo i played inthe past...
i hope TSW , SWTOR or Guild war 2 give me new experience mmo
Still waiting for the real "million subs".. or any official number on a substantial number of subs. I know we can't believe the statistic sites. And obviously we can't believe creative terminology for the gullible. "One million accounts".
What did RIFT do wrong? (People act like they're not getting the answer to the question, but it's everywhere). They copied WoW. They didn't hybrid several games, they put public quests in WoW and labeled it something else. If there's no innovation to be made in MMO's anymore, you can at least take from seveal sources so that people coming from a game don't feel like they're just doing the same thing again.
* * *
I want to play DCUO, even knowing people are leaving quickly. So while I wait for April to come, I downloaded CoH just for the general basic feel (Can I like a Superhero MMO?) and I see a game that's not exactly the polar opposite of games like RIFT and WoW. It has it's similarities but it feels different and it looks different. Every menu I've come to is different than it's Warcraft or FFXI or RIFT counterpart (FFXI was very different from WoW as well). The action bar is not center,bottom of the screen like warcraft. Merchants interact different. And the questing interface is different, though I despise it. There's no GCD but abilities have recast times and animation times.
A dedicated skinner could make a wow mod so tha WoW's interface frames and borders just like just like RIFT. I think it would be pretty funny to do.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Kids these days...
Themepark != WoW clone. I don't like WoW clones. Themepark games are fine if they do something new. But considering the last 5 or so AAA themepark games have been WoW clones... Stop trying to pigeonhole "Oh he just doesn't like MMOs" I love MMOs, I've played themepark games in the past. It's just in recent years themepark has come to mean WoW clone and MMO has come to mean Diablo with a monthly fee and chat box. I don't necessarily want a sandbox game, which is what you're trying to imply, I just want a game that isn't a WoW clone.
So by your logic SWTOR is also a WoW clone?
i hope no
That is my point the bullet points he laid out for WoW clone apply also to new MMOs in devolopment. Like it or not MMOs are going to have characteristics that are similar to each other. Even GW2 devs admitted making changes to make it more similar to traditional MMOs due to compliants in closed beta.
It's not out yet so it's hard to judge, but yes many aspects of it seem WoW cloneish. So far I'd say SWOTR is more a spiritual WoW clone than a mechanical one. I don't know the exact mechanics because its not out yet, but the devs are clearly emphasizing the heavy instancing and the solo play with NPC companions through a linear scripted world/story, and from what we've seen of the PvP so far its in the same vein as WoW. Arenas and Battlegrounds, all fair and "matched up" like esports. Less of a virtual world, more of a singleplayer RPG, which is WoW at its core.
But, I can't quite comment, because its not out, and it does seem to be trying a few new ideas (even if those ideas steer close to the WoW single player philosophy)
Wow, they did, seriously? Looks like I can cross another game off my list. They did the exact same thing in the Age of Conan beta, knocking the combat system down from 8 directions to 3 and putting a heavier emphasis on raiding. That turned out so well for Funcom... I hate what this genre's become.
As for "MMOs having characteristics that are similar to one another" there's a difference between similarity and cloning. EQ, DAoC, UO, AC, SWG, they had similarities. LotRO and WoW? More of direct carbon copying. Learn the difference if you want to know what is and isn't a clone.
Only things worth mentioning is the flexible soul system which does not able you to mix any classes (a tank is still a tank and cannot be a tank/mage)
That's not true. For example, the other day I was running an expert as sab for straight dps, and we ran into a boss where we needed the speed buff from bard. We failed a bunch of times so I went and respecced 20 points in bard for the speed buff.
I was then mostly dps with some support.
It's true you sacrifice something to go hybrid but it can be done. Usually it's better to go straight one thing or the other, but that's only because you're usually in the group to do only one thing.
As for Rift being the same as other MMOs, yup that's true for the most part. But it's well done. Turns out a well-done copy is usually more fun to play than an ambitious but ultimately flawed original, which are what original MMOs tend to be.
Source, or it did not happen. And how do you know the game is in closed beta? They've only said that closed alpha and beta tests would take place this year.
People making those comments (like the one you put in red) are not playing the game. Their friends are, hence their motivation why they bash the game on these forums. Their blaitant lies and misinformation has gone from insidious to laughable based on what little they truly know about the game. Truth like what you have expressed will fall on deaf ears. Their intent isn't to be shown the way. Their intent is to just bash the game because they are bitter. It's that simple. I have no problem discusing about things Rift has and what it could do better. Statements like the one you countered are only intended to convince others not try the game. That's it.
I'm not playing, but I'm not playing anything atm.
But the red statement is kind of true. I think the red statement is trying to say, though poorly worded, that a warrior cannot play with souls from say cleric or rogue's calling.
It's fine though because most callings can play several roles. Though you won't see warrior as a main healer, and I don't think mages can tank (?). But it's not like a rogue is strictly dps or or a warrior is strictly tank. etc etc.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
When you blatantly screw up on the details and present it as truth, it then becomes an issue of an obsolete opinion. Part of the point-by-point argument was to demonstrate where he misrepresented information or provided incomplete at best information. That is why his opinion isn't worth much, not simply because I say so.
The OP mentioned an analogy to cola for which I would like to finish for him if I may; If WOW is Coca Cola Classic, then Rift is New Coke, a product introduction that was sadly thought out, greatly marketed and ultimately "fizzled" away.
You're missing the part where New Coke was overwhelmingly hated by the public. Rift is not. It's a massive success, so your analogy doesn't hold water. Oh and the public didn't need 30 days to find out that they hated New Coke btw.